I picked up a 1984 IMSA Widebody SE Fiero yesterday and have many questions.

Mall post w/pics

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/038402.html

From what the previous owner can recall. He got the car in 1993 with either 12K or 16K miles on it from a car dealer around Detroit. It had been traded in for a Corvette. It was painted a “darker red” at the time of purchase. Previous owner repainted it the 1984 Fiero red. It was then was sprayed with primer. He did have a folder with all the original paperwork, but it has since been lost. He said it was a DGP kit, and the embossing on the body panels are the DGP numbering.

Big #1 question: Is there anyway to find out if this was a DGP built car? This will determine if I do a restoration or just rebuild it my way.

Next is: Are there any assembly instructions for the DGP kits around?

And what’s a good way to strip off some of the paint?

This will be a long term project. I won’t be starting until next spring. I still have a 84 SE parts car to strip and dispose of. It’s almost identical to the IMSA.

I’d like to offer my thanks up front for any and all help the forum members can give me.


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Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-10-2007).]

Can you still buy that rear wing you have on your Fiero? I have seen or one that is similiar. Nice widebody btw, I love that look on a notchie!

Don't have the answers to your questions but I envy your purchase, good luck!

Can you still buy that widebody kit anymore?

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm mistaken, but from what I know, there are 3 possibilities as to who installed the kit. It's obviously a DGP kit, so they would be my first guess as installers.

IRM bought the molds for that body from DGP, and they also installed the kits for customers, so they would be my second guess.

Third would be a customer that bought the kit uninstalled from either of the aforementioned companies and put it together himself.

From my experience, some ingenuity, paitience, common sense,and fiberglass experience would be the best instructions available for doing the install, as there have never been a detailed set put together by any of the folks who produced the kit, as far as I know. Like I said, somebody can correct me if that's not how it is.

You could try some aircraft stripper safe for fiberglass on the paint, but my advice would be allot of sanding, DA and some more sanding. If you don't use the stripper just right, and know how to "stop" it, it can stay in the fiberglass forever and give you headaches and heartaches with your new paint job down the road. Again, I'll let the resident experts fill you in on the "proper" method.

The pics in the mall thread look like that kit has the 84 bumper pad front bumper and a later (no pads) rear bumper on it?

Yes the wing is still available from Fiero Warehouse, as is the entire kit, but it's not cheap, and there STILL aren't any printed instructions available for a complete install that I know about.

Very nice interior in your car! Does your parts car have the same interior in it, and if so, are you interested in getting rid of at least the seats?

Congrats on your purchase, I think you made a good buy!

HAGO!
Sage

Congrats on the purchase. Good to see another, possibly, original DGP bodied car brought back to life.

I wonder the same as you. Are all of the original DGP cars stamped on all the body panels? My DGP bodied car is numbered as well. My panels are numbered DGP 84PLFF-11 (Letters change for each panel after the 84). So there were at least 10 cars built or sold prior to mine being built. Now the big question is how many did DGP build in house and how many were numbered and sent out?

Supercharged V6 has the prototype and has had made many contacts with the original owner of DGP. Maybe he can provide us with more clarification on the numbering of the original DGP cars.

Sage and Doug at the Fiero Warehouse do a great job with the current kits but I don't think they have any numbering on the panels as the original DGP kits did. Either Sage or Doug could verify this.

We should plan a DGP get together for the upcoming 25th. Would be cool to get all of the original DGP's together and the other IRM bodied cars as well. Just a thought.

quote Originally posted by Sage: The pics in the mall thread look like that kit has the 84 bumper pad front bumper and a later (no pads) rear bumper on it?

That’s correct. That’s what caught my eye too.

quote Originally posted by Sage: From my experience, some ingenuity, paitience, common sense,and fiberglass experience would be the best instructions available for doing the install, as there have never been a detailed set put together by any of the folks who produced the kit, as far as I know.

My question right now concerns the fiberglass wheel tubs. The Driver side rear is just laying in the wheel well flopping around. I guess I’ll have to pull the rear wheels and take a good look

quote Originally posted by Sage: You could try some aircraft stripper safe for fiberglass on the paint, but my advice would be allot of sanding, DA and some more sanding. If you don't use the stripper just right, and know how to "stop" it, it can stay in the fiberglass forever and give you headaches and heartaches with your new paint job down the road. Again, I'll let the resident experts fill you in on the "proper" method.

I figured as much, a lot of “sweat equity” to build up. My concern is the “PONTIAC” on the rear bumper. There is a lot of paint buildup.

quote Originally posted by IwannaIRM: Are all of the original DGP cars stamped on all the body panels? My DGP bodied car is numbered as well. My panels are numbered DGP 84PLFF-11 (Letters change for each panel after the 84). So there were at least 10 cars built or sold prior to mine being built. Now the big question is how many did DGP build in house and how many were numbered and sent out?

I'll have to check later today. Were the panels numbered in sequence to the kits? What I mean is one kits panels all ended in 11, then the next kit produced ended in 12.

I haven't gone over the car with a fine tooth comb yet, but there are several small problems that will need to be fixed. The front spoiler took a small hit and it has about a 3 inch long crack. The rear body panels where they join the rear center section (part that holds the tail lights) the right side has separated. And as previously mentioned, the build up of at lest 2 coats of paint and one coat or primer. Rust is minor underneath, mostly surface. Rear frame rails are solid, but the trunk is just starting to rust through on the driver’s side. The passenger side of the trunk is good. The car wasn’t driven in the winter, but was parked (car was covered) under an open sided car port.

The Centerline wheels are in great shape. No major corrosion, just light oxidation that should polish out nicely.

Thanks for the replies and hope for more.

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-11-2007).]

I've heard one of the safest methods for stripping paint from fiberglass/SMC cars is baking soda. Look under Sandblasting/Media blasting, and ask if they have experience using baking soda as a stripping medium. Good luck on your restoration.

I'd say the numbers you are seeing are part numbers, rather than sequential production numbers. Reason being, the numbers are embossed in the molds, with no provision for changing them. If they were production sequence numbers, they would have made an "insert" out of metal with removable, changable digits. That's not how they are.

Baking soda and water is a good medium to blast with as it is much less abrasive than sand. Walnut shells also works. You still have to be careful with any blasting medium, or you can create craters and low spots. Done correctly, blasting is a good alternative to hand sanding, just have to watch what you're doing.

Just guessing on your wheel well liner, but it sounds like either the fastners are not there, came loose, or the glass is wallowed out around them. That's provided you have the fiberglass liners. There are molds for all four corners for the well liners to be done in fiberglass.

HAGO!

quote Originally posted by Sage: I'd say the numbers you are seeing are part numbers, rather than sequential production numbers. Reason being, the numbers are embossed in the molds, with no provision for changing them. If they were production sequence numbers, they would have made an "insert" out of metal with removable, changable digits. That's not how they are. HAGO!

I would tend to agree with you but my numbers are not part of the fiberglass mold. They are a heavy machine stamped plastic glued on to the panels. The numbers all end with an -11, if I recall they are DGP 84PLFF-11, DGP 84PRFF-11, DGP 84PLRF-11, etc. I can't post the pic but I could email it to you to see what I am talking about.

The current panels you are making, are they numbered?

If your numbers are "attached" to your parts rather than molded into them, then I'd tend to agree with you.

When I get a chance, I'll check a couple of the molds and jot down the numbers embossed into them and report back here.

HAGO!

quote Originally posted by IwannaIRM: I would tend to agree with you but my numbers are not part of the fiberglass mold. They are a heavy machine stamped plastic glued on to the panels. The numbers all end with an -11, if I recall they are DGP 84PLFF-11, DGP 84PRFF-11, DGP 84PLRF-11, etc. I can't post the pic but I could email it to you to see what I am talking about. The current panels you are making, are they numbered?

Just check and my numbers are the same for the front
DGP 84PLFF-11, DGP 84PRFF-11, But the rears are DGP 84PSLRF-11, DGP 84PSRRF-11

I’m assuming that the number formatting is as follows:
DGP - Diversified Glass Products
84 - Year
P - Fiero (P-Body)
R-L - Right or Left
F or R - Front or Rear
F - Fender
The additional “S:” on my rear fenders must be because they aren’t the regular 84 style rear, I have the 85 GT or Indy rear clips.

quote Originally posted by Sage: That's provided you have the fiberglass liners.

They are.

quote Originally posted by Sage: If your numbers are "attached" to your parts rather than molded into them, then I'd tend to agree with you.

The numbers are molded in.

Just to add some more info, this Fiero seem to have every option on it.

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-11-2007).]

Just got back from the shop and checking a couple of the molds.

I'd have to go with Bob on this one.

The numbers in the molds are:

DGP84PRFF-11 (right front fender mold)
DGP84PRRF-11 (right rear quarter panel mold, IOW, right rear fender)
DGP84PLFF-11 (left front fender mold)
etc.etc.

Not sure about the "P" and "S" designation, but I came to the same conclusion about the rest of the codes, i.e. they are part numbers.

So it would appear that they are indentifying part numbers, not sequential production numbers.

HAGO!

I spoke with the guy who owns the molds now and I had hoped to identify my car by those numbers but he said the numbers are actually cast in the molds so everyone should have the same numbers. That was somewhat of a dissapointment to me, but I love my widebody IMSA.

Jeff

This morning I talked to a guy that owns an 84 DGP car in Allentown PA . He said he has a metal tag on the car that has another number on it besides the serial number for the car. Could this be the production plate for the run of cars? His car is painted like the Dole car and has a Super Duty in it. I have a pic of the car when he brought it up to my house years ago. If I find it I'll try to get it scanned and find someone to post it.

Edit for spelling, it sucks when I can't find my glasses.

[This message has been edited by foxgapfiero (edited 09-11-2007).]

P is the first molds for stage 2 and S is the stage 3 rear bumper. Mine are P all around. Mine are the first set of panels made for street and are part of the mold. I say this as mine was the very first street car made by DGP. If you get me the vin and anything odd about it I can talk with Bob Birchmeire about your car and see if he built it.

The inner fender wells should be boned to the fender and then connected as normal to the frame. Rick



My car on there T-shirts


Info on my car as DGP kept it for about 5 years


My back end is a P model as it was not the later style bumper like Bobs.

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 09-11-2007).]

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: If you get me the vin and anything odd about it I can talk with Bob Birchmeire about your car and see if he built it.

Thanks, I emailed you some info.

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: The inner fender wells should be boned to the fender and then connected as normal to the frame.

I'm not familiar with the term "boned to the fender". What do you mean?

Opps hahahah I meant Bonded. Mine are bonded as there a large one peice mold. If yours is then they either bought them from DGP or DGP put them in. If there a cobbled up mess then it was done by a buyer. Got the info. Thanks,,Rick

thats the exact kit that the dealer i worked for here in oregon installed in the late 80,s.
plus those are the same dam wheels those things were hot looking when there painted
by the way they were factory 4 cyl turbo. the local dealer did all the work and they
carried the factory warranty.

My mold numbers are formed into the mold, not metal plates.

It would seem I made a mistake. The person who is working on my car confirmed they are glassed in. They just look like a plastic embossed stamp. Sorry for the confusion.

So mine has the P all around just like Rick's does. I will get the VIN and email it to you Rick to see if you can find out if it was a build car or not.

Sage, thanks for taking the time to look at your molds to verify the part number inlay.

Now to see if there is any other indicator if this is a DGP kit or an IRM kit. I'm still thinking DGP because of the age and condition of the installed kit (it's not new by any means) and the low miles on the car when I got it. The research continues.

Welcome.

HAGO!

quote Originally posted by Sage: Very nice interior in your car! Does your parts car have the same interior in it, and if so, are you interested in getting rid of at least the seats? HAGO! Sage

Sage, Thanks for posting your great info. I missed this part when I first read it. The parts car has the exact same interior. Car has only 76K miles on it and the engine and tranny are good. but it had been driven in the Michigan winters at some time. The upper and lower frame rails are gone. So are the sides of the trunk. The left rear lower control arm pulled out of the cradle. The sunroof leaked so bad that the dirvers seat is rusted to the floor. Both seat are water damaged and not much good.

I have to ask, what is "HAGO!"?

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Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by What about Bob: I have to ask, what is "HAGO!"?

Isn't that "haggered and getting older" Sage?

Russ

Bob, thanks for the reply on the seats. Didn't figure it would hurt to ask. I've got an 84 that I'd evenutally like to put back on the road, and it has those seats in it. They are about a 5/10 shape wise, but they will work, would just like to find a "nicer" set to use, but not really a big issue. Thanks again for taking the time to let me know.

Russ, Yeah, but that was about 5 years ago it meant that, now that I'm just old and decrepid, it means:

Have A Good One!


HAGO!

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Isn't that "haggered and getting older" Sage? Russ

Russ, That’s about how I feel. Glad to see you back on your build post and I hope your back continues to improve. Reading your IMSA build rekindled my interest in getting one. Thanks for sharing your work with all of us.

IMSA widebody installation - Russ style
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/054893.html

Looks like you got a great deal on that car no mater what it's origin. perhaps I just missed it, but what engine configuration is in the car? stock duke? modified duke? SD?

oh ya. also is the trans an 84' 4 speed ? (no ribs on case).

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-13-2007).]

Yep that is why I said the "S" means the Stage 3 rear end. It is neat having two cars in one. Rick

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Looks like you got a great deal on that car no mater what it's origin. perhaps I just missed it, but what engine configuration is in the car? stock duke? modified duke? SD?

It appears to be the totaly stock 2.5 Iron Duke. WOO HOO! Is there a way to tell if it's a hopped up 2.5?

quote Originally posted by Russ544: oh ya. also is the trans an 84' 4 speed ? (no ribs on case).

Yep, the 4.10 M19 no rib 4 speed

Bob

here are a few pics of the car that foxgap was talking about




i want this car. just may need to give up my recently purchased 350 fiero for one

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DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list

86 gt 350 4 speed
85 t-top BEING PARTED
87gt parts car
86 and 87 fiero database www.geocities.com/cwandall/fiero.html

[This message has been edited by wiccantoy (edited 09-16-2007).]

Ok I am the guy FoxGapFiero and Wiccantoy have been talking about. Mark was nice enough to post a thread about me selling things and it has gotten me re-interested in posting when I can barring my migraines. Anyway I have an 84 IMSA. I believe it "could" be an orginal Pontiac car although I have no proof. The reason I think this is that it is painted like the dole fruit racecar. It was fully loaded. And came complete with a SD-4 just like their project /promotion cars. It also has a metal tag inside the front trunk compartment with the Vin # and other things. As for knowing if your cars are orginal DGP cars. Look for stickers on the insides of the panels. I have one on the inside of my over the roof scoop. I will try to check other panels when I can.



BTW the wheels are just like those used on the real racecars. Compmotive light weight 3 piece rims. Only real difference is mine are 5 spoke and the racecar has 6 spoke.

[This message has been edited by The_Stickman2 (edited 09-17-2007).]

Wiccantoy and The_Stickman2,
Thanks for the photos.

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: It also has a metal tag inside the front trunk compartment with the Vin # and other things.

Where inside the front compartment is this metal tag located? Do you or anyone else have a photo of the metal tag?

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: BTW the wheels are just like those used on the real racecars. Compmotive light weight 3 piece rims. Only real difference is mine are 5 spoke and the racecar has 6 spoke.

Are your wheels 15” or 16”?

The_Stickman2, I’m sorry to hear about your migraines. My wife occasionally suffers from them and I know how miserable they can be.

------------------
Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

Bob I will try to get a pic of the plate tomorrow barring intense pain in what is left of my brain. My wheels are 15X9's in the front and 15X10's in the rear. If you have any other questions just ask. BTW I am considering starting a website/informal club for anyone with an IMSA car of any kind. I have seen Monza's, 300Zx's, and RX-7's all with IMSA flares on the street.

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: Bob I will try to get a pic of the plate tomorrow barring intense pain in what is left of my brain. My wheels are 15X9's in the front and 15X10's in the rear. If you have any other questions just ask. BTW I am considering starting a website/informal club for anyone with an IMSA car of any kind. I have seen Monza's, 300Zx's, and RX-7's all with IMSA flares on the street.

glad to see you up and running a little more often. i hope to get a chance to come up this weekend for the hood if that is ok with you. tell the wife hi and the room mate boo

quote Originally posted by wiccantoy: glad to see you up and running a little more often. i hope to get a chance to come up this weekend for the hood if that is ok with you. tell the wife hi and the room mate boo

Yea I have been more active, atleast on this board. Thanx to Mark for posting that info so that now I have something to try and keep my mind active. No problem coming up this weekend just call ahead of time to see if I am ok. Yesterday was very bad. Also note when I am posting. It seems I am much better late night/very early morning..

BTW here are pics of that plate I was talking about and a DGP sticker from the inside of my scoop. I will try to crawl under my car later to see if I can find anymore but I will need to roll the car out of the garage and jack it up so that may be awhile.

Here's a bump in hopes that someone can shed some light on the plate in my IMSA esspecially the "clear" part.

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: BTW here are pics of that plate I was talking about and a DGP sticker from the inside of my scoop. I will try to crawl under my car later to see if I can find anymore but I will need to roll the car out of the garage and jack it up so that may be awhile.

Mine doesn't have the additional plate. It looks like a variation of the VIN plus a couple of RPO codes. The 40L & 40U would match to the paint codes for White lower and upper. Any one else? Could The_Stickman2 have a factory modified car?

------------------
Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: BTW the wheels are just like those used on the real racecars. Compmotive light weight 3 piece rims. Only real difference is mine are 5 spoke and the racecar has 6 spoke.

I don't think the Compomotive wheels are the same as used on the real race cars. According to Joe Huffaker they only used the Jongbloed and the Centerline Wheels. Compomotive builds a nice replica wheel but it isn't the real racing wheel. If I recall correctly, when I phoned Compomotive a few years back after emailing them a picture of the Huffaker 55 car they said they never built a race wheel for the Fiero racing teams, although, they could make a similar wheel but they would need the dimensions to build it properly and that they had just recently built a set for a customer with a Fiero.

The conversation was some time ago so I may not have it 100% correct. The guy at Compomotive was real helpful and he's been there many, many years so he could answer any questions about these wheels.