I was watching a show on TLC last night called from wrecks to riches where they take a junk yard car and build it up and make a huge profit on it.

Anyway they used a dupont water based paint on the Chevelle they built to try and be environmentally friendly. Has anyone tried this on their Fiero. They said by using a water based paint it reduces the chance of orange peel. How hard would a water based base coat be to paint? Would it be too thin and have more chance to run or is it just like the petroleum based paints and all depends on how much you thin it?

If it is true that it reduces orange peel, and is just as durable as petroleum based paint. I might just have to look into that for my Fiero as I am a newb when it comes to painting and can use all the help I can get.

edit: I found a press release regarding the new paints. Press release

quote DuPont Water-Based Paints Help California Auto Body Shops Meet New Air Emissions Regulations New Products Facilitate Productivity and Profitability WILMINGTON, Del., October 4, 2006 - In the collision repair business , the key to profitability is fixing cars and then applying aesthetically superior finishes as quickly as possible. However, in 2009 California’s two largest air quality management districts will impose emissions regulations that shop owners fear will slow their paint operations, costing them efficiency and productivity. When the new regulations take effect, collision repair shops in the South Coast and San Joaquin districts will have to reduce emissions of volatile organic compounds (VOCs). The only way to comply with the regulations is to substitute waterborne “base” coats that use water in place of much of the solvent in current paints. The base coat is the color component of an automotive painting system. DuPont™ Cromax® Pro is DuPont’s brand for its new water-based color coats. “The trend toward sustainability is here to stay, so our objective is to help our customers not only cope with the new regulations, but actually improve their businesses in the process,” said John McCool , vice president and general manager of the refinish business in DuPont Performance Coatings. “Our new DuPont™ Cromax® Pro waterborne products represent a real technological breakthrough because they will help collision repair businesses comply with the new regulations while saving labor.” When the new regulations were announced, some shop operators worried that waterborne finishes would add time and effort to the painting process. However, unlike solvent-based color coats that require painters to wait while solvent “flashes off” or evaporates, additional coats of water-based Cromax® Pro can be applied while the first coat is still wet, saving labor time. In addition, fewer layers of water-based color coats are required to achieve a high-quality automotive finish, saving more time and reducing the amount of paint used. Traditional automotive base coats contain 6.2 pounds of solvent per gallon of product, while DuPont™ Cromax® Pro reduces its use of solvents nearly 50 percent. The new aftermarket paints will be introduced in California on March 1, 2007. Several major U.S. and European automakers already use waterborne paint systems in their assembly plants. “More than 5,000 shops in the European Union have successfully converted over the last several years. DuPont science proved that waterborne finishes could deliver environmentally compliant products without requiring compromises in performance, price or productivity,” McCool said. “Shop owners in this country are understandably apprehensive about these new regulations and the shift to new products, but the reality is other jurisdictions in the United States, Canada and elsewhere are considering similar regulations.” Conversion to waterborne paints requires relatively minor modifications to equipment and procedures. Factoring in productivity improvements, the new DuPont products are no more costly than their conventional counterparts. DuPont is a science company. Founded in 1802, DuPont puts science to work by creating sustainable solutions essential to a better, safer, healthier life for people everywhere. Operating in more than 70 countries, DuPont offers a wide range of innovative products and services for markets including agriculture, nutrition, electronics, communications, safety and protection, home and construction, transportation and apparel. 10/04/06 The DuPont Oval Logo, DuPont™, The miracles of science™, and Cromax® are registered trademarks or trademarks of DuPont or its affiliates.

[This message has been edited by fieroluv (edited 06-15-2007).]

I have shot a water based Polane (Catalized Sherwin-Williams) on a point of purchase Kiosk prototype for Kodak. It was Kodak yellow. I tell you it was thin and runny and it took a lot of coats to cover a white primer. I was not impressed. I could see with enough work you could get a nice finish from it.
I saw the same show last night and the white stripes they laid down looked like it covered very well and looked like regular petrolium based paint. I'm sure formulations are getting better and better for these paints since California is mandating the water based stuff. Plus Polane in any form can be a bear to deal with, fish eyes very easily, but once its on there its on there it will not come off.

I am very interested in this also and would like to hear from someone that has used the duplicolor brand. I have been doing a lot of engine work and have just recently found an aero bumper. I am now ready to paint. I can get the Duplicolor for less than $15 a quart (with my frequent shopper and fellow Fiero owner behind the counter discount) Neither I or my friend have used it and I was wondering how many quarts would I need. If it is really thin and needs more coats, it may not be cheaper than buying the regular stuff from Sherwin Williams. If I can cover the car properly with four or 5 quarts I am looking at $75 for paint, $75 for primer, and $75 for clearcoat. Thats $225 plus incidentals (sand paper etc.), not bad. Sherwin Williams is about $350 (depending on color) for what the call a complete kit of their premium paint. Even then I would still need to buy primer and I think the clearcoat also. The big advantage to this is that I can buy a quart a week and not have to charge it, and I can go back and pick up a quart for touch ups at any time. The disadvantages? Unknown durability, limited color selection, having to use several more coats and thus not saving any money. I want to hear personal experience, not press releases or TV shows. Not to sound smug, but they can say whatever they want without true verifiability. It's just paid advertising.

Jim

Jimbolaya, I just want to make sure I'm clear on this... Are you talking about Duplicolor's new lacquer based system or are you talking about some new water based product I've just never heard of??? As for water based paints I've been shooting them for about 3 years now. I use Auto Air Colors and have been able to get results as good as any solvent based system. Based on exposure samples I've done in the past the Auto Air is much more light stable especially in candy (more dyes than pigment) build ups. Go here to find out more about them... http://autoaircolors.com/
Now I am not going to mislead anyone here by telling you that's it's the easiest stuff in the world to apply. The color coats go on kind of "dusty" compared to regular color base coats but the product has evolved quite a bit even in the last year. Their new flash reducers make a big difference in flow and how the product lays down. Urethane clears don't just stick over top of the Auto Air, they bond through it because the color coat maintains a pore structure after drying.
Getting back to that Duplicolor system. If it is indeed the lacquer system you are talking about I think that's taking a huge step backward in durability for anything that is less than a show car. I haven't shot anything with acrylic lacquers since 1992. Pure show car... sure you used to blow on 10, 15, 25 coats of the stuff. You had to because it would "shrink" back leaving you with a lot less thickness than it appeared. Looked great though, depth, clarity, easy to repair. And you learned to repair it because just about anything from bird crap to a good stone chip would cut it all the way down to primer. Daily driver, weekend show car..... make mine base coat/ clear coat.

Maybe I am confused. I am talking about the duplicolor brand sold at Advance. I read about in a High Performance Pontiac mag. It was months ago but I am pretty sure they were saying it was water based because the main point of the article was about all the legislation going on in California (where else) in order to eliminate environmentally unsafe painting at home "do it yourselfers". This new paint was supposed to be the answer to everybodies prayers. I'll go back and see if i can find the magazine article and reference here if I can. Can anyone else chime in?

Jim.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Maybe I am confused. I am talking about the duplicolor brand sold at Advance. I read about in a High Performance Pontiac mag. It was months ago but I am pretty sure they were saying it was water based because the main point of the article was about all the legislation going on in California (where else) in order to eliminate environmentally unsafe painting at home "do it yourselfers". This new paint was supposed to be the answer to everybodies prayers. I'll go back and see if i can find the magazine article and reference here if I can. Can anyone else chime in? Jim.

jimbolaya,
I believe the topic referred to DUPONT brand paints which were used on the TV program, not duplicolor paints.
This is where your confusion may begin.
I have shot synthectics myself in red for less than $200.00 BC CC and it covered and laid down extreemly well.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: jimbolaya, I believe the topic referred to DUPONT brand paints which were used on the TV program, not duplicolor paints. This is where your confusion may begin. I have shot synthectics myself in red for less than $200.00 BC CC and it covered and laid down extreemly well.

Yup, ever had one of those brain farts. I guess it was the first 3 letters (Dup) throwing me for a loop, and the fact that I'm now over 40 (not saying how far). Everything starts breaking down after 40 years. The Fiero has less problems than me. So I'll ask again in proper context. Has anyone used the Duplicolor product sold at Advance? Oops, sorry, I forgot, this is not my thread. Didn't mean to highjack it.

Jim.

LOL... you did it again, you referred to it as Duplicolor... LOL...

I don't care if you hijack the thread or not, I'm just trying to get as much info on the subject as possible. I'm still a little fuzzy on whether or not it's a good option for the Fiero though.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: LOL... you did it again, you referred to it as Duplicolor... LOL... I don't care if you hijack the thread or not, I'm just trying to get as much info on the subject as possible. I'm still a little fuzzy on whether or not it's a good option for the Fiero though.

No, there really is a line of of Duplicolor automotive paints at Advance, and thats what I'm trying to find out about. Not spray cans or touch up tubes, it's sold in quarts.

Jim

I will be spraying with these waterborne paints when I do my car.

http://www.autoaircolors.com/index.htm

I've been experimenting with them and have been very pleased with the results so far. Not terribly expensive and goes down very easy. If you insist on waterborne, these are the paints to use.

Edited to note that if you insist on factory color, then these won't work. This is for custom color work only.

[This message has been edited by LAMBO (edited 06-18-2007).]

Replacement bumper covers for years have been water borne primered. As far back as early 80s some GM cars (Olds Cutlass comes to mind) experimented with water basecoats. At that time anyway, you still put on a catalyzed urathane clear over the top. As far as I know, they dont have a water based clear yet. I could be wrong on that.

I just looked at the autoaircolors web site and I don't really think that is what I was looking for either. With the Dupont paint you thin it with water instead of reducer, with the autoaircolor paint you still thin it with reducer. I was more or less looking for info on the paint you thin with water.