Click here to visit The FieroStore | View all sponsors
  Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  Repairing Clear Coat by Spotting?

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


Repairing Clear Coat by Spotting? by Mike Murphy
Started on: 05-27-2007 10:25 PM
Replies: 30
Last post by: Indiana_resto_guy on 06-05-2007 08:41 AM
Mike Murphy
Member

Posts: 2251
From: Greencastle, Indiana 46135
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 63
Rate this member

Report this Post05-27-2007 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike MurphyClick Here to Email Mike MurphySend a Private Message to Mike MurphyDirect Link to This Post

I just finished repainting the rear clip and before the clear hardened I scuffed a small place on the left rear corner just above the belt-line. I don't think it will wet sand and buff so a second coat of clear is in order. My question is how do I blend the panel that goes up to the roof? Surely I don't want to do the whole rear clip again? Can I spot it and blend the panel and then wet sand and buff?

IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post05-27-2007 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

yes most paint companys have a blender . dupont use's 222 blender . but i wouldnt use it as something you plan to keep for a very long term repair . it looks nice for those that are looking to fix something for a used car lot or will be selling soon , it eventually becomes visable. your best bet is to resand it down with 600 grit and reclear it .

------------------

DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list

88 coupe t-top #656 1 of only 339 base coupes made FOR SALE
85 t-top BEING PARTED
87gt parts car
86 and 87 fiero database www.geocities.com/cwandall/fiero.html

IP: Logged

Mike Murphy
Member

Posts: 2251
From: Greencastle, Indiana 46135
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 63
Rate this member

Report this Post05-27-2007 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike MurphyClick Here to Email Mike MurphySend a Private Message to Mike MurphyDirect Link to This Post

The whole rear clip... both sides and top?

IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post05-27-2007 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

for the best look, yes the entire thing should be recleared. but you can try to wet sand it first if that makes you feeel better

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post05-28-2007 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

This question always results in someone saying it *can't* be done after I tell you how to do it right & I get pissed off that they're calling me a liar...
Sand the entire blending area with 1000 wet. Spot in your clear, using blending agent made for your paint aorund the blended edges both before & after you spray the clear (lightly dusting the blending agent). After two or three coats of clear (whatever is needed) let it dry & sand & buff it. Violia! No blended edges, & they won't come back if the products are quality. Of course, if you use cheap crap paint all bets are off.
I've been doing this **** for nearly 40 years & this method works well for me - even with black. Previous attempts without pre-sanding the entire area with 1000 gave mixed results.
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Remember 1/2 of the population is below average.

IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

lol thats funny . it seems that your coments are that of a cranky stuck in there ways kinda person. dont think your the only one who has been doing this for a while . im sure your way works but i too have been doing auto body for quite some time . 15 years now , and the first 5 years on nothing but hot rods and show cars. the main thing about blend agents and only useing 1k grit is alot of paint companys recomend more adhesion promotion than 1k grit . dupont does not recomend your method later down the road after the car has been painted and cured. it can be done but i wouldnt recomend.

remember 1/2 the population is way too cocky

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 02:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wiccantoy:

lol thats funny . it seems that your coments are that of a cranky stuck in there ways kinda person. dont think your the only one who has been doing this for a while . im sure your way works but i too have been doing auto body for quite some time . 15 years now , and the first 5 years on nothing but hot rods and show cars. the main thing about blend agents and only useing 1k grit is alot of paint companys recomend more adhesion promotion than 1k grit . dupont does not recomend your method later down the road after the car has been painted and cured. it can be done but i wouldnt recomend.

remember 1/2 the population is way too cocky

I've been building show cars for 38 years. I'm *not* a "cranky stuck in their ways kinda person". I'm a *cranky* willing-to-try-new-things-if-they-work old fart. That's why I discovered this method: 'cause others did not work very well. I've done it to fresh paint & paint that has cured for years. It's worked well for me.
I don't know any paint companies that will tell you to sand with paper rougher than 1000 to re-clear.
So... how do you blend clear? If you have a system that works we all want to know about it.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 06:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

I am cranky and stuck in my ways...the ones I find acceptable. Mark has pointed out that you have done it a long time. Remember most of these guys are novices. That means the only cars theyve painted are models or a hood scoop. As I do many VERY picky exotic car repairs and have done many many award winning custom show cars, most have to be as perfect as they can be. I do have blending clear, I use R&M/ BASF products and they have one. I will ONLY use that on a dealer used car or a customer who wants to go the cheap route on his damaged Taurus. To me, blending in the clear, whether it works or not, is totally unacceptable on a $200,000 Ferrari. I wont do it on even my own cars. It takes barely any more material and your guarateed flawless result if you just clear the whole panel after spotting in the color only. If that means for a dented quarter panel means clearing that, the roof and the other quarter panel then so be it. I havent had any complaints or come backs and most customers send referrals to me for what they consider supurb work. If you can blend in the clear, more power to you. As I have said before, I have NEVER seen a blended clear spot that I couldnt see...even when manufacturers have done demonstrations of their product in my shop. That doesnt mean Ive seen examples of everyone who is in the business. My customers do not spend sometimes tens of thousands of dollars restoring cars to have someone walk up and ask ' what happened here '. So keep in mind 90% of the people in a car forum are NOT professionals, in fact most are looking for the cheapest way out. Not that there is anything wrong with that if its acceptable to them. You may be a brain surgeon and an expert in your field, but if the lady next door asks you how to do it, dont expect her to come up with the same results.

Now the way I spot in a job is to sand or scuff the entire panel with either a gray scotchbrite with soap and water, or wet sand it with 1000 grit completely. Spray the color in the spot as big as necessary to cover the damage...then clear the entire panel. Color sand the entire panel, buff and polish and Im done....no hassle or question of the result and it took 10 mins more than trying to blend in the clear which may or may not end up looking ok. Ill go for the 10 mins more and 3 oz more material myself. Blending worked excellent with laquer because even 40 year old laquer can be softened up by just spraying thinner on it. That allows the new paint to melt into the original. Hardened / cured urathane does not...your blend lays on the top surface of the original. That is the whole purpose of urathane paints in the first place...more durability because its more impervious to damage from things like chemical rain, spilled gasoline, tree sap, bird droppings, etc.

End, move on to regularly scheduled programming.

------------------

Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Approved

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I am cranky and stuck in my ways...the ones I find acceptable. Mark has pointed out that you have done it a long time. Remember most of these guys are novices. That means the only cars theyve painted are models or a hood scoop. As I do many VERY picky exotic car repairs and have done many many award winning custom show cars, most have to be as perfect as they can be. I do have blending clear, I use R&M/ BASF products and they have one. I will ONLY use that on a dealer used car or a customer who wants to go the cheap route on his damaged Taurus. To me, blending in the clear, whether it works or not, is totally unacceptable on a $200,000 Ferrari. I wont do it on even my own cars. It takes barely any more material and your guarateed flawless result if you just clear the whole panel after spotting in the color only. If that means for a dented quarter panel means clearing that, the roof and the other quarter panel then so be it. I havent had any complaints or come backs and most customers send referrals to me for what they consider supurb work. If you can blend in the clear, more power to you. As I have said before, I have NEVER seen a blended clear spot that I couldnt see...even when manufacturers have done demonstrations of their product in my shop. That doesnt mean Ive seen examples of everyone who is in the business. My customers do not spend sometimes tens of thousands of dollars restoring cars to have someone walk up and ask ' what happened here '. So keep in mind 90% of the people in a car forum are NOT professionals, in fact most are looking for the cheapest way out. Not that there is anything wrong with that if its acceptable to them. You may be a brain surgeon and an expert in your field, but if the lady next door asks you how to do it, dont expect her to come up with the same results.

Now the way I spot in a job is to sand or scuff the entire panel with either a gray scotchbrite with soap and water, or wet sand it with 1000 grit completely. Spray the color in the spot as big as necessary to cover the damage...then clear the entire panel. Color sand the entire panel, buff and polish and Im done....no hassle or question of the result and it took 10 mins more than trying to blend in the clear which may or may not end up looking ok. Ill go for the 10 mins more and 3 oz more material myself. Blending worked excellent with laquer because even 40 year old laquer can be softened up by just spraying thinner on it. That allows the new paint to melt into the original. Hardened / cured urathane does not...your blend lays on the top surface of the original. That is the whole purpose of urathane paints in the first place...more durability because its more impervious to damage from things like chemical rain, spilled gasoline, tree sap, bird droppings, etc.

End, move on to regularly scheduled programming.


See what I mean folks?
I don't see why a first-time novice couldn't do it the way I do - it's *not* that difficult!
You have NEVER seen a panel that *I've* sptotted in. I wish to *hell* you'd come by & take a look at one, instead of constantly putting me down. A friend has a BLACK truck & I *dare* you to show me the place I spotted in the cab about a year ago.
We're not talking about a $200,000 Ferrari - we're talking about a *tiny* spot on a freshly painted surround, & the OP wanted to avoid having to sand & re-clear the entire thing. I told him how (it's EASY!), & it will never show if done the way I said (& quality paints/products are used).
If you can sand, tape up, shoot, sand again, & buff a 1/4 panel, roof, & other 1/4 panel in ten minites then I'd hire you tomorrow at a salary of over $100,000.
Actually the WHOLE purpose of urethanes was to satisfy the government to reduce the lead & other toxic chemincals found in laquer. Urethanes *are* durable, but there are LOTS of chemicals that can soften them.
SHEESH.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

If you can't take the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 06-01-2007).]

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Nowhere in my post did I put you down. Ive always said there are more than one way to do anything. You do things one way, I do them another...simple fact of life. You say im calling you a liar........where did I say that ? I made a simple statement that I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER SEEN A GOOD CLEAR BLEND WITH URATHANE. ..even from paint company experts demonstrating it before my eyes. And I said to PAINT the whole panel would take 10 more minutes. Sanding and polishing would take a bit longer. Thanks for the job offer though, but I already clear $200k @ year where Im at. I dont have to take long color sanding, I can lay it smooth enough that it just needs a few dust specs or so sanded, and a quick pass over the whole thing with buffer. One of the things I like about BASF Limco clear. Flows out like its been dipped.

SHEEEESHHH.........get a grip.

To meet government standards to make paint safer for user............There are so many warnings on a paint can of urathane, theres no room for any instructions. Painting one car without a respirator can kill you. I know people who have painted laquer for 50 years without any mask on at all.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-01-2007).]

IP: Logged

Mike Murphy
Member

Posts: 2251
From: Greencastle, Indiana 46135
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 63
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike MurphyClick Here to Email Mike MurphySend a Private Message to Mike MurphyDirect Link to This Post

Hey guys don't fight over me! I'd rather have females doing that! I may clear the whole thing or try to spot it as I did not damage the base color. First I'm going to sand it carefully and go from there. Depends on how I feel at the time because I will have done the entire car soon and I'm anxious to get it together and start on my car next. This was my son's and he is not as particular as me.

Thanks to all who commented here

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Murphy:

Hey guys don't fight over me! I'd rather have females doing that! I may clear the whole thing or try to spot it as I did not damage the base color. First I'm going to sand it carefully and go from there. Depends on how I feel at the time because I will have done the entire car soon and I'm anxious to get it together and start on my car next. This was my son's and he is not as particular as me.

Thanks to all who commented here


I'm done Mike: I'm not wasting any more of my time here. If you try my method & it works let us know. :-)
Hell you might even get away with filling in the imperfection with a brush & sanding it smooth & buffing. A pic would help determine that.
I *do* know that the paint manufacturers don't recomend putting urethane over laquer primer - yet the above does just that & apparently even on show cars & Ferraris. I've heard the paint reps say that is akin to painting a ballon. Now I know he'll come back & say he's done it for years without any problems, but like I said I'm done. I didn't join PFF to argue; I'm trying to help folks.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Guy: "You look familiar - have we met before?"
Girl: "Jerk! I had you arrested for exposing yourself!"
Guy: "Well...you'll have to be more specific..."

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post







------------------

Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Approved

IP: Logged

2farnorth
Member

Posts: 3402
From: Leonard, Tx. USA
Registered: Feb 2001


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 81
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2farnorthSend a Private Message to 2farnorthDirect Link to This Post

I have a black car that had the entire left rear quarter area re-painted by someone prior to my purchase of the car. I didn't see the clear blend area on the fastback pillar until I had polished and waxed the car, then backed out into the sunlight. It's not real obvious unless you know it's there and the light hits it just right. It's okay for a daily driver, but won't do for a show car. I'm saving my "pennies" in hopes of getting a high quality paint job in the not to distant future.

Roger, Paul..... Rembrandt and Picasso probably had different methods of painting, but they both were great and their works sell for $ millions now....loooonng after they died. lol

Dave

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 2farnorth:

I have a black car that had the entire left rear quarter area re-painted by someone prior to my purchase of the car. I didn't see the clear blend area on the fastback pillar until I had polished and waxed the car, then backed out into the sunlight. It's not real obvious unless you know it's there and the light hits it just right. It's okay for a daily driver, but won't do for a show car. I'm saving my "pennies" in hopes of getting a high quality paint job in the not to distant future.

Roger, Paul..... Rembrandt and Picasso probably had different methods of painting, but they both were great and their works sell for $ millions now....loooonng after they died. lol

Dave

Just goes to show that not everyone can blend paint... (or cares enough to take the time to do it right). It's REALLY hard to find anyone that does quality work anymore. There used to be about three shops in my area that I would recomend (out of hundreds), but I'm not sure if they're even there anymore (I know one friend that retired).
I blend paint on *show* cars all the time...*no* one has seen the blended areas yet...
You have to realize that the thicker the paint, the more prone it is to chipping. It dosen't pay to keep shooting coat after coat after coat on just because you can't (or won't learn to) blend the clear. Clear urethane goes on very thick to begin with.
But hey, do what you want. I can't force *anyone* to try my method, or to care about doing quality work. I'm not going to apologize because I care enough to do things right & that lasts for *decades*.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

There is no problem that cannot be solved with the *right application* of high explosives.


IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2007 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

Just goes to show that not everyone can blend paint... (or cares enough to take the time to do it right). It's REALLY hard to find anyone that does quality work anymore. There used to be about three shops in my area that I would recomend (out of hundreds), but I'm not sure if they're even there anymore (I know one friend that retired).
I blend paint on *show* cars all the time...*no* one has seen the blended areas yet...
You have to realize that the thicker the paint, the more prone it is to chipping. It dosen't pay to keep shooting coat after coat after coat on just because you can't (or won't learn to) blend the clear. Clear urethane goes on very thick to begin with.
But hey, do what you want. I can't force *anyone* to try my method, or to care about doing quality work. I'm not going to apologize because I care enough to do things right & that lasts for *decades*.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

There is no problem that cannot be solved with the *right application* of high explosives.



yes you can blend , i can blend , and im sure roger can . but we are giving advice to a novice do you really think he can just jump right into it and have a show quality repair ?

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-02-2007 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wiccantoy:


yes you can blend , i can blend , and im sure roger can . but we are giving advice to a novice do you really think he can just jump right into it and have a show quality repair ?


Don't see why not: it's *fresh* paint & it's NOT THAT HARD TO DO.....
Roger says you CAN'T blend...not without it showing...
Please tell us your method.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Hey Leroy, what'cha doin' dragging that chain across the floor?
Leroy: "Ever tried *pushing* a chain?"

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-02-2007 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

The ones I 'do' blend are done the way my paint rep told me to the letter. Scuff sand the panel with either 1000 wet or wet gray scotchbrite. Extend that for at least 2 feet from the area to be painted (which usually ends up being that whole panel). Spray the basecoat color, extending each coat slightly farther than last. I use 2 coats. Follow that with clear using the same method (again 2 coats). Do NOT tack off the color base overspray, or the clear overspray. Then dampen the overspray area with R&M UBR200 Universal Blending Solvent, being careful not to get runs. After fully dried buff with 3M Perfect compound. Im told NOT to wet sand or use Super Duty compound on the blend area itself or it will leave a distinct break line. By just buffing with Perfect II compound the blend will be acceptable. The last few sentences are one reason I see that its not the best result. I just find it better to just clear the whole panel since its usually just a door, fender or hood. Ive sanded the whole panel anyway. When its dry, I can sand any defects out and polish the whole thing and I know its going to look and hold up fine. And it saves me having to buy the blending clear. What I usually throw away of left over clear is enough to have done the whole panel in the first place. I just cant see a downside to my way. On quarters that run into the roof and other quarter panel, it is a little more work, but I can only think of a few vehicles I had to do that on ever. Most either have a break line or on lots of older cars, they have a sharp body line either on the quarter or top of the 'C' pillar to 'roll tape' it off. Then you only need to take a few swipes of wet or dry paper along that edge before polishing it to eliminate it.

One car comes to mind I did an all over restoration on (just the paint). A friends 64 Corvette I painted in the mid 70s in red. Its red oxide laquer primer with a color coat of Imron Uranthane. It still looks absolutely showroom new and yes he does drive it all summer with our club. The cars won Bloomington Gold status at their annual event and even their experts didnt detect a complete repaint. To get Gold, your car cannot have more than 1/4 repaint (for damage repair). Id guess 30+ some years qualifies as a decades perfect paint job. Ive even perfected a method to recreate factory joint / mold lines. There so picky, even using a chrome screw in your ashtray instead of a factory stainless one can add up enough points to disqualify you.

IP: Logged

Firefox
Member

Posts: 4304
From: New Berlin, Wisconsin
Registered: Feb 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 241
Rate this member

Report this Post06-02-2007 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

My turn.

You can sand and respray your clear for that part of the panel and blending into the roofline, but as a novice I wouldn't recommend it. You can use the blending clear and make your blend at the top edge of the roofline so if there is a division between the clearcoats it will be in a location that no one may notice. But, as a professional painter that does things the proper way according to GM and PPG, I do not recommend blending the new paint for the novice.

But, that's just my little old me opinion. I don't have 40 years in the business.....just 25.....but I'm not cranky.

Mark

------------------

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 06-02-2007).]

IP: Logged

Richjk21
Member

Posts: 2225
From: Central Square NY, USA
Registered: Feb 2006


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-02-2007 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Richjk21Send a Private Message to Richjk21Direct Link to This Post

... it's been a while since we've had one of these ......

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-02-2007 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

They tell me you cant barrel-roll or loop a Cessna 172XP...........

I do many things that ' cant be done ' and yet I do.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-02-2007).]

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-03-2007 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

They tell me you cant barrel-roll or loop a Cessna 172XP...........

I do many things that ' cant be done ' and yet I do.


Well YOU'RE the one that said you CAN'T blend clear!


 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
One car comes to mind I did an all over restoration on (just the paint). A friends 64 Corvette I painted in the mid 70s in red. Its red oxide laquer primer with a color coat of Imron Uranthane. It still looks absolutely showroom new and yes he does drive it all summer with our club. The cars won Bloomington Gold status at their annual event and even their experts didnt detect a complete repaint. To get Gold, your car cannot have more than 1/4 repaint (for damage repair).

So let me get this straight: You & your friend with the Vette CHEATED & LIED to gat a trophy you didn't deserve!!! REAL nice!
I hope the guys at Bloomington see this thread.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Headline: APATHY RUNS RAMPANT - Nobody cares.

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-03-2007 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

I never said you couldnt do it. I said I cant or anyone Ive seen cant to my satisfaction. I havent seen you do it. You may be able to do lots of stuff I cant. I cant play sports, I cant swim. But I really dont have an interest in doing them.


Bloomington Gold is not a trophy idiot. Its a sort of certification by the Corvette Association that your car is authentic. Its looked at by a select chosen set of Corvette experts to determine all aspects of the authenticity. You dont have to tell them a thing. You pay to take your car in and they spend hours going over it inch by inch to determine if its as sold the day it left the showroom. But then anyone who restores Corvettes would know all this. It does add a lot of value to the sale price if an owner wants to ever sell. Its not cheating and many top shops do restorations and get Gold status. There is a TV program on Speed called Last Stingray where the same thing was done.
Its not cheating if the workmanship is so good, that the examiners cant determine if anything was done. Those cars must also have matching VIN numbers on engine, trans and body. He had a blown engine and had another block made with the original number on it too. Good luck trying to find it out of all they examine. Now go back and take your meds like the doctor told you.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-03-2007).]

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-03-2007 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I never said you couldnt do it. I said I cant or anyone Ive seen cant to my satisfaction. I havent seen you do it. You may be able to do lots of stuff I cant. I cant play sports, I cant swim. But I really dont have an interest in doing them.

No: You said YOU couldn't do it. THEN you said quote: "I do many things that ' cant be done ' and yet I do." What *I* said was that YOU'RE the one who said *you* couldn't blend clear. Don't twist my words around.


 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
Bloomington Gold is not a trophy idiot. Its a sort of certification by the Corvette Association that your car is authentic. Its looked at by a select chosen set of Corvette experts to determine all aspects of the authenticity. You dont have to tell them a thing. You pay to take your car in and they spend hours going over it inch by inch to determine if its as sold the day it left the showroom. But then anyone who restores Corvettes would know all this. It does add a lot of value to the sale price if an owner wants to ever sell. Its not cheating and many top shops do restorations and get Gold status. There is a TV program on Speed called Last Stingray where the same thing was done.
Its not cheating if the workmanship is so good, that the examiners cant determine if anything was done. Those cars must also have matching VIN numbers on engine, trans and body. He had a blown engine and had another block made with the original number on it too. Good luck trying to find it out of all they examine. Now go back and take your meds like the doctor told you.


So the whole car is mis-represented as an original (unpainted) car, in spite of the fact that it's been painted all over & in fact it has an ILLEGALY modified engine serial number on the engine! Break the law & lie to any potential buyer in order to get a LOT more money for the car! Like I said: REALLY nice! Our hobby REALLY needs more folks like you & your friend (NOT!). Just because you can CON the experts dosen't mean it's RIGHT.
I'm not on f*cking meds! Though, dealing with people like you I need to be!
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Every day of my life forces me to add to the list of people that can kiss my a$$!

IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post06-03-2007 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:


Don't see why not: it's *fresh* paint & it's NOT THAT HARD TO DO.....
Roger says you CAN'T blend...not without it showing...
Please tell us your method.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Hey Leroy, what'cha doin' dragging that chain across the floor?
Leroy: "Ever tried *pushing* a chain?"


are you asking for my method? would you like to see pics of the 33 willys im redoing too? or any of the other mack and ford trucks i am doing right now? and pics of my paint booth? i dont blend unless its the only option and not a car the person plans to keep. dupont recomands you use 1k grit sand paper clear the area again go over the edges with 222 blending clear to blend out the edges. a minimum of a area 6" past the area that needs the reapir. after the paint has cured you can take 2k grit to sand the edges a SMALL amount and buff the entire area. all in all i rather reclear the entire panel that needs repair .

if your not being a smart A$$ with me by asking how i would do it . and you are just asking for another perons way of doing things than never mind my sarcasm in the start of this post.

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-03-2007 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wiccantoy:


are you asking for my method? would you like to see pics of the 33 willys im redoing too? or any of the other mack and ford trucks i am doing right now? and pics of my paint booth? i dont blend unless its the only option and not a car the person plans to keep. dupont recomands you use 1k grit sand paper clear the area again go over the edges with 222 blending clear to blend out the edges. a minimum of a area 6" past the area that needs the reapir. after the paint has cured you can take 2k grit to sand the edges a SMALL amount and buff the entire area. all in all i rather reclear the entire panel that needs repair .

if your not being a smart A$$ with me by asking how i would do it . and you are just asking for another perons way of doing things than never mind my sarcasm in the start of this post.


No I was not being a smart a$$. :-) I was genuinely asking about your method for blending clear so I could perhaps learn something new & also to help others.
Looks like you do it pretty much the same way I do except I usually sand with 1000 then 1500+ (up to 2500 sometimes) before buffing. I think the key is to sand the area you're blending with 1000 *and* use the blender around the edges *both* before *and* after you shoot each clear coat so that the blender melts in the new clear better. Thing is I don't do very much paint work on cars that folks *don't* plan to keep.
Like you I don't bother to blend on small panels, but when repairing a small area on a *large* panel it just make sense to blend & not build up the car with un-needed clear coats.
Thanks,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2007 06:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Yes you can get a brand new engine block with your number on it if you provide the original block to them. It not a big problem. Not any more than getting a copy of the cars original window sticker. Some irreplaceable cars that are restored, sometimes dont have hardley any original pieces in them....everything on that car is duplicated with handmade copies and still they can sell for millions of dollars. A local Ferrari collector has a Lancia Stratos that was raced in the 60s. He sent it to europe to be restored. They handbuilt most of the body to the same specs as the original. Very little of it is original and its valued as high as a completely untouched original he also has that raced LeMans. The way your looking at it, if you weld in a piece of metal in a rusted floorboard, the car is modified and not considered original.... To me, a lets say 70s car that never been driven, only stored is pretty much worthless except as a museum piece. It would require pretty much a ground up mechanical rebuild to be reliable for driving even if it has say 20 miles on odometer. Would that decrease its value by going clear thru it or not ? Would that now make it not an original 20 mile car ?

All that aside, I didnt do anything except fix the car like customer wanted...wasnt like we were in a conspiracy to do whatever. You MISSED the whole point anyway. I did a complete paint job, which EXPERTS inspected....looking for flaws on purpose...and they couldnt find them. Do they maybe need better experts, maybe youd care to dontate your services since no one else is capable of meeting your standards. They are selected from a worldwide organization. Have I done jobs that something screwed up...yes and Ill bet you have too.

All in all, we seem to agree to disagree. If you look back on other posts, youll see that I completely agreed on some suggestions youve posted. Ill just leave it at that so that everyone can move on to more worthwhile matters. Its hard for me to put any faith into a supposed show car builder that doesnt even know what Bloomington Gold is. Thats like a race fan thats never heard of Indianapolis. The mans got his info at least for a start, so I wont bother coming back to see what wise comments youll add.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-04-2007).]

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2007 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Yes you can get a brand new engine block with your number on it if you provide the original block to them. It not a big problem. Not any more than getting a copy of the cars original window sticker. Some irreplaceable cars that are restored, sometimes dont have hardley any original pieces in them....everything on that car is duplicated with handmade copies and still they can sell for millions of dollars. A local Ferrari collector has a Lancia Stratos that was raced in the 60s. He sent it to europe to be restored. They handbuilt most of the body to the same specs as the original. Very little of it is original and its valued as high as a completely untouched original he also has that raced LeMans. The way your looking at it, if you weld in a piece of metal in a rusted floorboard, the car is modified and not considered original.... To me, a lets say 70s car that never been driven, only stored is pretty much worthless except as a museum piece. It would require pretty much a ground up mechanical rebuild to be reliable for driving even if it has say 20 miles on odometer. Would that decrease its value by going clear thru it or not ? Would that now make it not an original 20 mile car ?

Sheetmetal dosen't have serial #s on it. The ONLY reason to fake the serial # on an engine block is to DECEIVE everyone into thinking it's the engine that CAME in the car! It's NOT.

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
All that aside, I didnt do anything except fix the car like customer wanted...wasnt like we were in a conspiracy to do whatever. You MISSED the whole point anyway. I did a complete paint job, which EXPERTS inspected....looking for flaws on purpose...and they couldnt find them. Do they maybe need better experts, maybe youd care to dontate your services since no one else is capable of meeting your standards. They are selected from a worldwide organization. Have I done jobs that something screwed up...yes and Ill bet you have too.

No, I didn't miss the point, I just commented on the deception.
I used to paint panels on Vettes (& everything else for that matter) matching not only the color but the exact orange peel too so that it wouldn't look so much better than the rest of the car.


 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
All in all, we seem to agree to disagree. If you look back on other posts, youll see that I completely agreed on some suggestions youve posted. Ill just leave it at that so that everyone can move on to more worthwhile matters. Its hard for me to put any faith into a supposed show car builder that doesnt even know what Bloomington Gold is. Thats like a race fan thats never heard of Indianapolis. The mans got his info at least for a start, so I wont bother coming back to see what wise comments youll add.


We *do* agree on a lot of things. I just wish you'd quit repeating over & over that you've *never* seen anyone that could blend clear when I post helping to do so. Even if you haven't, you make it sound like it's impossible & it's NOT THAT HARD TO DO.
I haven't been into Vettes much since the late '70s. That's back when I painted the NEW Vette that the editor of Vette Views Magazine bought & brought it to us BEFORE he started driving it. YOU'RE the one that said he WON "Blooming Gold".

~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

"James Lewis - get away from that wheelbarrow; you know you don't know nutin' 'bout machinery!"

IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2007 11:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:


No I was not being a smart a$$. :-) I was genuinely asking about your method for blending clear so I could perhaps learn something new & also to help others.
Looks like you do it pretty much the same way I do except I usually sand with 1000 then 1500+ (up to 2500 sometimes) before buffing. I think the key is to sand the area you're blending with 1000 *and* use the blender around the edges *both* before *and* after you shoot each clear coat so that the blender melts in the new clear better. Thing is I don't do very much paint work on cars that folks *don't* plan to keep.
Like you I don't bother to blend on small panels, but when repairing a small area on a *large* panel it just make sense to blend & not build up the car with un-needed clear coats.
Thanks,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!


well than i am sorry . it is kinda hard to judge peoples attitudes on the computer.

IP: Logged

wiccantoy
Member

Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 91
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2007 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post

ok everyone needs to come down to my area sit by the bon fire and have a bear or two or 10. we can than hash out differfent ways to paint

IP: Logged

Indiana_resto_guy
Member

Posts: 7158
From: Shelbyville, IN USA
Registered: Jul 2000


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 163
Rate this member

Report this Post06-05-2007 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana_resto_guyClick Here to Email Indiana_resto_guySend a Private Message to Indiana_resto_guyDirect Link to This Post

Mike,
If it were me, I would sand down my 'scuff' , wet sand the clip and give it a second coat of clear.
This is a reason why I shoot two or even three coats of clear over color so I don't worry about a scuff.
My own $.02. I am not a professional painter but I can paint very well. If I do a clear coat repair, the whole panel gets done.
End of story.

IP: Logged




All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock