I have only had my 86 SE a few months now, and have had no real problems. It has always started right up as soon as the starter turned the engine over. In the last couple of weeks it has taken about 5 seconds of cranking before it starts. Then it runs for about 10 seconds, then stalls. It then starts and runs fine. The only engine problem I have had is that the check engine light comes on when the engine heats up to about 190 degrees. When I connect a laptop, the only flag that is set is for the EGR. The PO had disconnected the EGR and I reconnected it shortly after I purchased the car, but have not had time to check it. The EGR won't affect starting will it? Can anyone tell me what to check to solve this problem? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

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SmilingMarcus
86 Fiero SE

The EGR could cause some problem if it was leaking air.

But on the long crank start.

When you turn the key to run, but not start, do you hear the fuel pump run for a couple sec. and then turn off.

If not that is the typical bad fuel pump relay, wiring problem, etc.

If the FP relay is not working the engine has to crank long enough to get some oil pressure so that the backup FP contact in the oil pressure sender closes to start the pump.

The normal test is swap the AC relay with the FP relay to see if that fixes the problem. They are located on the firewall behind the air cleaner and are both the same.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 03-22-2007).]

quote Originally posted by SmilingMarcus: I have only had my 86 SE a few months now, and have had no real problems. It has always started right up as soon as the starter turned the engine over. In the last couple of weeks it has taken about 5 seconds of cranking before it starts. Then it runs for about 10 seconds, then stalls. It then starts and runs fine. The only engine problem I have had is that the check engine light comes on when the engine heats up to about 190 degrees. When I connect a laptop, the only flag that is set is for the EGR. The PO had disconnected the EGR and I reconnected it shortly after I purchased the car, but have not had time to check it. The EGR won't affect starting will it? Can anyone tell me what to check to solve this problem? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,

the egr is something that needs to be addressed but i don't see how its related. does the battery hold a charge ok? does the volt meter show it charging? if that's ok it sounds like a bad positive or negative cable coming off the battery. if they are original i wouldn't hurt to replace them and make sure the contact points are very clean and tight.

First thing that came to mind was a fuel problem of some type. Do the basic stuff as Dodgerunner suggested, then check the fuel pressure if you have the tools.

First off, thanks for the quick responses! I didn't have a chance to check anything until today, but I really thought it was going to be the relay. Unfortunately, it was not the relay. I can hear the fuel pump for a few seconds when the key is turned and I went ahead and swapped the two relays just to make sure. I get the same result reguardless of which relay is connected. The battery does hold a charge and the both battery cables have been replaced. I am getting 16 volts at the battery with the engine running, so I don't think its the battery, plus it doesn't have any problem cranking, it just cranks longer than it used to. I know I have a small vacuum leak which I have not been able to find yet. If the vacuum leak got worse, could that be the problem? One of my goals this spring is to replace the vacuum lines with aluminum tubing, maybe I should make that a higher priority.

Thanks again everyone!

I am having the same issue, I think mine is temperature dependant though. On warm days or if the car is a bit warm (run for like 5 mins) it is taking about 5 sec to crank. If the car is cold or if its cold out it starts up in less than .5 sec. I think its going to be an issue with a temp sensor. I will find out in about a week, getting the ALDL cable later this week and I will be running it and seeing what is going on. I am though going to check the air filter this afternoon, just got the car a month ago and someone suggested it, may as well look.
You are Ohio, might be the same, bet its getting to be a lot like spring there. Try firing it up one cold night and see?

Just moy thoughts.
Chris

good call kinboyatuwo.

hook you laptop back up and see if the temp sensors readings are off.

especially the input air temp also called mat. it is located in the air cleaner and can get contaminated with rust. makes the car think that it's 120 degree input air, and will lean the mix down too much for a truly cold engine.
with aldl, just check the 2 after sitting all night, they should be the same within 5 degrees.
if you don;t have aldl setup, you cna use a digital ohmeter to check them. if needed, I'll post the chart...

Call me crazy, but I remember my fuel pump running at first "key on" with the relay disconnected. Has anyone else tried this? I was trying to troubleshoot a long crank before start. I noticed the car would not start until oil pressure built up a little. I thought "bad fuel pump relay". So I removed the relay to see if the car had the same symptoms. (Non-A/C car so only one relay) I then heard the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds when the key was turned on even with the relay physically removed. When the oil pressure came up during cranking, it started. Anyone?

quote Originally posted by Hudini: Call me crazy, but I remember my fuel pump running at first "key on" with the relay disconnected.

Is it possible the wrong relay was disconnected?

Nathan

Well, with me anything is possible (I put my '86 2.8L externally balanced flywheel onto my '95 3.4L internally balanced engine, DOH!). It is the only relay in the proper location. The relay connector wires were part of the wiring harness that has the MAT sensor. It hooked onto the firewall on the drivers side. I secured it when I last replaced it, so I have not had a chance to check if I have other wiring issues that could cause that behavior. That is why I asked if anyone else has tried removing the relay and checking if their fuel pump ran when the key is first turned on.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 03-25-2007).]

Hudini I think your smoking something... JK

When it does this do you hear a relay clicking somewhere else?

Just can't figure out how that could happen any other way unless someone wired another relay somewhere else.

Isn't there some kind of cold start injector thing on 2.8s? Somebody once told me that if it takes a long time crank up that could be an issue. I thought once it got running it should stay running though.

But then, I still use a paper clip to get codes. How do I hook up a laptop? I have like 3 surplus from work.

There are a couple people that sell them or if you can solder you can make your own.

Here is the link for the software and the drawing to build a cable.
You can make a cable for less than $10.
I have some pictures on a couple thread if you search on my ID and winaldl on how I make the ALDL plug also.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060811-2-069730.html

http://winaldl.joby.se/

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 03-25-2007).]

I have WinAdl, so I went out to the car and checked the MAT this morning. It showed around 67 F, which is pretty close to actual temperature this morning. The only other temperature setting I saw was for coolant temperature, which was within 1 degree. Are these the two temperatures you wanted compared tjm4fun? Is there another temperature reading I missed? I also noticed on the errors tab that the O2 lean flag was set now. Could that be the problem or was that just because I didn't have the car running? Another odd thing I noticed yesterday was the radiator fan had come on after driving the car for a short distance. Normally the fan does not come on until the temperature is over 200 F and I even thought my fan might not be working for a while before it came on for the first time. Yesterday, it came on when the temperature was around 170 F and it came on this morning without starting the car. Is there a sensor which controls the fan or is it controlled by the computer? I'm going to work now, so I will see how it drives today.

Is there a thread or writeup anywhere that explains how to use WinAdl and what to look for?

Thanks again everyone.

No there are just the two temp sensors. Other than the third just for the dash gauge which winaldl can't see.
Yes the O2 has no reading non running and cold.
On the Rad. fan, you didn't happen to have the ac or defrost button pushed? Either will run the fan.

My low mileage 88 takes just a bit longer to start to hot days also but not bad. Usually touching the gas to give it more air makes it start quicker. If your cold start inj. fires on all starts it might make it a bit rich on hot starts and cause the problem. You could try unplugging the inj. to see if it makes any difference.

Here is some light reading on the ECM and winaldl. Read it over then read it again. Each time it will make more since.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 03-26-2007).]

The radiator fan was because I had turned on the AC the day before to see how cold it got. I forgot to turn it off and that led to my confusion.

Cold starts seem to the worst for long cranking. Once the engine warms up, it sometimes it will start immediately and sometimes it will crank for a while.

Dodgerunner, did you mean to place a link to some reading for ECM and winadl in your last post? I don't see the link.

Thanks again for your help.

Yes I intended to...

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/069590.html

Sorry read you cranking backward, thought it was slower when warm.

Slow on cold would be related to MAT and CTS which you have checked.
TPS, Fuel pressure, and cold start injector..

You have access to a FP guage? You can check your pressure just to make sure your good there, and also use it to check to see if the CSI is working.

What you should be able to do is pull the two Inj. fuses, pressurize the fuel system and then kill the FP by fuse or relay. All three fuses are in a row.
Watch the pressure and crank the engine. Should see the pressure drop some if the CSI fires.
This would have to be done on a cold engine of course otherwise the CSI will not fire anyway.

Could be other things but something to check.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 03-27-2007).]