I have tried to find info and, though most seem to try to dissuade one from using a shortstar, I am enamored with the idea of it. I realize the northstar is the same basic swap but I just like the idea of the V6. I think it lends itself to the Fiero better. What I would really like to do is a 3.6 VVT with a 6spd auto from an Aura/G6/Outlook/Acadia etc. I think these things are going to be everywhere soon and if you retain all the emissions and electronics it wouldn't be hard to set up, would it? I know the wiring can be a ***** but I mean no reprogramming, etc.

I originally wanted to do a 2.4 Eco and boost it. Looking at SC 3800's but something about them doesn't appeal quite as much. Have also looked into the 4.3 Vortec but, eh. I don't particularly care for the 3.4 DOHC, though it has its merits.

The car I am picking up is an auto and I have driven a stick for the last two years and an auto kind of appeals to me too, right now.

Anyway, just kind of thinking out loud and wondered if anyone was thinking the same or has input.

Thanks,
Jay

I'm very much liking the flavor of that Kool-Aid. With the 3.6 in the Saturn Outlook?GMC Acacia Crossover/SUV's putting out 275 hp and 251 ft#, that definately whoops an L67, stock for stock. All aluminum. The Caddy CTS for 08 will offer direct fuel injection that will give 300 hp. Oh yeah!

Even juicier still is the new 6T75 transmission. Bollted to it, rated to 315 hp and 300 ft# (the mighty 4t65HD is rated to 280) and smaller then a TH125. Yeah, GM has given us some really nice toys to play with.

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Never Lose Respect-So We Prevail

Yeah, I think it would be pretty sweet and though I wouldn't want to run much boost on a stock motor I am thinking it should handle a modest 4-6 psi with out too much trouble, at least for a while anyway. I am thinking stock ecu and internals with just intake and exhaust it may push 10-15 hp more. 300HP is probably very doable seeing that GM is supposedly coming to market with one making that. The Fiero I am getting is not running and I was going to get it running by doing a swap but I may just see if I can get it running as is and make it look sweet, all the while I will be looking in bone yards and online for 3.6/6spd/harness/ecu. I guess the best way to do it would be to get it running on a spare cradle and then integrate it to the Fiero electrical system.

I think this swap is doubly sweet because it should have few caveats. Weight; good. Size; good. Power; good. Ease; potential problem. Eventually cost should come down considerably(duh).

Wiring diagram. Where to get one? This certainly is going to be a the worst part.

OK, I think I am going to wait and try to do this. Now I need to make the car run and look sweet so my wifey won't be in my ass about it so much.

JUST PICKED UP MY 86 GTFB!!!! Good freakin' deal, I think.

Anyway, this is now a go. I am doing a swap. I just don't know what yet. Would help if one of you monkeys would chime in and give me the low down on the 3.6, if anyone knows. My plan is to do the WCF 4T65E (want to do the 6sp auto instead but I figure in a year I can change, that is too long to wait!) mounts and let it position the LY7 so I can make the mounts. Then the tedious wiring, tweaking etc. Still would like more info on the 3.5 S*, I realize many say just do a N* but I want something a bit different. Looking at the 3.4 TDC but don't trust it.

I am still considering the 3800 combos, well documented and thoroughly figured out but....well....they have been done a lot too, of course.

Still considering a 2.4 Ecotec. N/A at first, boost to follow but I would do that to darn near anything, eventually. Would just want to do it earlier with the 4 Cyl. Though it would be an instant upgrade in power over the 2.8 and would be great on gas, I guess.

Kicking around a regular 2.2 Eco, don't think I want to jack with it. Not a power upgrade until major upgrades.

Alas, I may end up just doing a 3.4 OHV just to get it on the road and bide time to find and prepare a cradle with a complete swap, ready go. I guess that doesn't sound bad, though it will be more work in the end.

Any thoughts? Bueller........Bueller.........

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: I'm very much liking the flavor of that Kool-Aid. With the 3.6 in the Saturn Outlook?GMC Acacia Crossover/SUV's putting out 275 hp and 251 ft#, that definately whoops an L67, stock for stock. All aluminum. The Caddy CTS for 08 will offer direct fuel injection that will give 300 hp. Oh yeah! Even juicier still is the new 6T75 transmission. Bollted to it, rated to 315 hp and 300 ft# (the mighty 4t65HD is rated to 280) and smaller then a TH125. Yeah, GM has given us some really nice toys to play with.

Ill take 300trq over a small HP differance, and also the HP curve is very peak oriented, an L67 makes near 210 wheel from 2200-5700 rpm's.

so no, it doesnt even compare to a l67 let alone "woop on it"

O and for the swap, I would just do an auto 3800SC swap, it would be really easy, you CAN make it unique (think turbo), and the 4t65e-hd can be got really cheap, and easily handles alot of upgrades on both the motor and the transmission.

Stay away from WCF please!

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 03-19-2007).]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I am looking at that but there is something about the majority dislike (maybe just my perception of it) for DOHC that makes me want to use it. Hence the title of this thread. I am still seriously considering the 3800. I am debating handling versus straight line. NOT saying any of the options won't do one or the other but nevertheless it is my opinion that a lighter aluminum motor would be better in the little car. But I don't want the 4.9.

I am familiar with the 3800 Ser. II SC. A friend of mine bought a GTP when they first came out. I KNOW it can make power. The LS4 is actually lighter and makes more power N/A than the 3.8 SC stock. That would be awesome but no one is doing them I don't know how easy it would be to find one. I may do this one too. The simplicity of the 3800 and the fact that it is easy to upgrade are two big factors of why I am considering it too.

I don't doubt the merits of any of the engine choice anyone else makes, except maybe someone who doesn't us GM but that is another story.

Just thinking out loud and picking some brains, if you'll let me.

I like your thinking. I have been interested in the 3.6 with a 6 speed manual for a swap ever since they came out. Unfortunately, I currently don't have sufficient garage space to start messing around with it. So basically I am waiting for someone else to try it out and see how difficult it is. Maybe in a few years I'll have enough garages (or I'll give the Fiero high enough priority over all the rest of my junk) to go ahead with it.

As for the Shortstar, from what I've heard it is significantly easier than the northstar, because it fits end-to-end much nicer (without the minor adjustments to the strut tower - read BFH). I think it is Rickady88GT who has a beautifully installed shortstar in his car. I am sure you can find something in the archives on it, or just ask him about it.

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1988 Fiero GT
Cleveland Fiero Club

Yeah, garage space is at such a premium for me that I was fortunate enough to have a friend that was willing to help me out. The only way I could get this project going. I think I remember trying to email Rickady88GT and haven't gotten a response. I will try to find more info in the archives as you said. Maybe I am tripping and forgot to send him one or maybe he is too busy to respond. I will try again. I read something about he wanted to do a N* next. It's too bad he lives so far away, I would just purchase his setup and he could use the $$ for the N*. Hmmmmmm.

A local bone yard has a S* but the harness is cut (they always do that $hit).

I need to find out how all these guys do there wiring harnesses and where to get the diagrams.

Email received from MechTech

/*
Hi Jay. Now I know what were talking about. no problem. We have a complete
computer and harness that works great, and is fully programmed and ready to
run. It also comes with software for future programming. The cost is
$1875.00 and in stock.
Regards, Jim
*/

Man, that initially sounded like a lot of money then I thought, preprogrammed, plug'n'play, tunable. Still salty but man that would eliminate some serious headaches. The caveat may be whether or not it will handle the auto tranys.

On another note, read some more of the 3800 info available on this big beautiful net and am reconsidering.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Ill take 300trq over a small HP differance, and also the HP curve is very peak oriented, an L67 makes near 210 wheel from 2200-5700 rpm's. so no, it doesnt even compare to a l67 let alone "woop on it" O and for the swap, I would just do an auto 3800SC swap, it would be really easy, you CAN make it unique (think turbo), and the 4t65e-hd can be got really cheap, and easily handles alot of upgrades on both the motor and the transmission.

Having had plenty of experience with an L67 powered Fiero, I can live without some of that torque. Even with 235 tires, it's very easy to break loose at every stoplight. That's fine when you want to embarass everything at the stoplight (as well as attract the attention of the local cops), but when you get up to higher speeds, the big ballers in Porsches and Supras are leaving you behind.

I like L67's. But it's old school now.

L67s are going to be gone next year or two. I will miss them.

Well looking into Megasquirt. Would work for the S* and may be the hot ticket for me if I go that way. GM gives ideas on how to handle the tranny in the Eco Handbook. VVT as on the LY7 would be another story, though I think it could be handled, I don't think I should be the one to tackle it.

[This message has been edited by sYkboy (edited 03-30-2007).]

Found a guy on the 60º V6 forum that is using a Haltech on an LY7. No VVT control and he says it runs great. That may be doable but would still need tranny control unless I use the 125 or a 440/4T60.

well, the shortstar would be nice in a Fiero. The less expensive way to go is to use factory PCM's - you might want to get the entire wiring harness from the car including the ignition switch and keys along with the BCM and all the relays, etc. If that is too much trouble, you might want to run an OBD1 or OBD2 system from a 3.4 TDC. It should work, but no VVT. Megasquirt is OK, but it will take a lot of time and effort to tune properly and again, no VVT. I see where there are some people in the megasquirt community attempting to control VVT with the megasquirt, but it is still experimental.

My mom just bought a Saturn Aura with the 3.6L 6spd auto, it halls no question about it and it would probably give the 3800SC a hard time if it didn't beat it outright. I didn't abuse it because it's not mine but I got on it a few times and first I'd like to add there is no red area on the 8 or 9000 rpm gauge, it smokes the 18 inch tires and is long winded, coincidently I shot past a red fast back in Tampa around Saturday night that was fooling around with a VW, I wish I had been lined up at the light with him.

What I didn't like was the delay in shifting in manual mode, but I'm sure with program access that can be changed, it defeats the purpose of having to wait a second and a half or so on up shift.

Sorry, I was so busy during my little visit back home I never popped the hood to take pictures.

I believe GM is doing the deceptive power rating tactic where they rate the same engine at different rpms and give the impression there is a big fluctuation in power, the Aura is rate at 252 hp at 6300 rpm with a 6900 rpm fuel cut, the 270-275 hp versions are rated at 6600 rpm. Torque wins races however that is conditional depending on how well the engine breaths up top and what kind of race you are in. From a stand still if you only have to shift to second gear to reach 65-70 mph and still be inside the hp peak you may have an advantage over brute force off the line and short breath up in the rpm range. That's where the imports live and why some of the 4 bangers are able to give the bigger engines a run for their money.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-16-2007).]

Well, time has been cut. Looks like I will do what I can find. No time to spend figuring out 3.6 swap, I need to do one as soon as reasonable.

Shiii..fuuuuh....crap!