Well, I was just informed that the Fiero I purchased but have not received yet (waiting for the shipper) is probably going to need brake pads. So, I am wondering, since this is going to be a daily driver do I go ahead and upgrade the brakes or simply replace the pads. I have to admit that I have not paid much attention as to any issues with the stock brakes on the Fiero's so any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Griz

I don't think the stock performance of the fiero brake system is that bad myself, it is a 4 wheel disc brake system. Most complaints seem to be from systems that need maintenance. If all the lines are in good shape, all four calipers and rotors are up to snuff and the fluid has been evacuated and replaced it should be fine. If the fluid has never been purged and replaced with frsh stuff there is bound to be moisture and other contaminants in the system, the rubber lines are prone to collapse if they have never been replaced (20 years is a long time on rubber and moving parts regardless of miles), and the seals on the calipers are prone to failure at their age. A set of new rotors, inspect and rebuild or purchase rebuilt calipers as needed, pads, new soft lines, inspection of the hard lines and replace as needed, inspect and replace master cylinder as needed, and a good flush and refill should give you a very sufficient brake system.
Just my .02

------------------
Don't take life too seriously -- you'll never get out if it alive.

If you are getting an 88, I'd suggest just replacing the pads, and what was previously suggested. The 88's have vented rotors and are prolly good enough. The rest depends on your driving. In town vs highway. Daily driver vs weekend warrior. V6 vs Iron Duke. Give us more information to work with.

------------------
Ol' Paint, 88 Base coupe auto.
Turning white on top, like owner.
Leaks a little, like owner.
Doesn't smoke, unlike owner

[This message has been edited by DtheC (edited 02-18-2007).]

I've never driven an 88. But i've had 3 V6 gt's 1 an 1986 auto and the other 2 87 GT's with the 5speed. The stock 84-87 brakes leave something to be desired. My current 87 has the grand am front upgrade, and It helps a bit, but i'm still none too impressed with it. My s10 with old front discs and rear drums stops much quicker and with less pedal effort than my fiero does. i'll be looking into something 11.25" or 12" in the summer for my Fiero more than likely. If you're taking the breaks all apart i'd recommend doing the grand am break upgrade on the front at least (rears if you don't care about not having an e-brake) and an s10 master brake cylinder. Just to give the brakes that much more "oomph' for any hard fast stops you may need to make.

[This message has been edited by Disillusion (edited 02-18-2007).]

quote Originally posted by DtheC: The 88's have vented rotors .... Give us more information to work with.

Hmmmm, they do?????

Why, then did I just replace my stock '88 rotors with vented and slotted rotors??? If your statement is true, it seems like I would have noticed vented rotors when I took off the stock ones! BTW, I bought my 1988 car new and have had it ever since! This is the first rotor replacement.

Here is the stock rotor - I see no vents!:



And the new replacement (which IS vented):

------------------

^ those are vented, the ones you put on are vented... but also cross drilled and slotted

This is for an 86 GT with original braking system. Ball park, what would it cost to have the vented/slotted braking system like the above put on the vehicle?

Griz

Fiero strore does a kit for like $300. I think it's basically the beretta/grand am upgrade.

Personally I think the stock brakes are ok, not great but ok so long as you drive within the limits of the brakes (so no tail gating).

------------------
Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

quote Originally posted by griz: This is for an 86 GT with original braking system. Ball park, what would it cost to have the vented/slotted braking system like the above put on the vehicle? Griz

You will lose your e-brake with this setup:

4 X 1990 Grand Am rotors @ 17.77 = 71.08
2 X 1990 Grand Am front left calipers @ 22.44 = 44.88
2 X 1990 Grand Am front right calipers @ 22.44 = 44.88
2 X 1985-1987 Fiero front hubs machined by West Coast Fiero = 95.00
2 X 1990 Grand Am set of front pads semi-metallic @ 18.99 = 37.98

293.82 ball park.

Upgrades:

Ceramic pads at $38 for a set of 2 (need 2 sets total so add $38 to above)
1993 S10 Blazer master cylinder (small blazer, not K5 large blazer) remanufactured $32
New front inner and outer wheel bearings and seals $50
Stainless steel brake lines (Fiero Store) $100

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 02-18-2007).]

I've driven a lot of cars in my day, never been particularly easy on any of them, and I will say sometimes seat of the pants feel can be deceiving (even on braking!). I tried to find some actual brake tests on the Fiero (specifically the 85 - 87 V6 models) and it seems the data is not real easy to find.
Can someone confirm or rebuke the following data?
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT General Performance

New Price: $14,800
Options on test car: air conditioning, rear spoiler, optional subwoofer,
cruise control, rear defroster, power door locks
Engine:
2.8 liter Multi Port Fuel Injected V-6, iron block and heads
Engine management system:
Pontiac/Delco electronic
Power:
140 bhp @ 5200 rpm
170 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
Redline:
6000 rpm

Drivetrain:
Transmission: 4-speed manual
Final-Drive ratio: 3.65:1
Ratios: top speed in gear (mph)
1 3.31 36
2 1.95 61
3 1.24 96
4 0.81 130
Dimensions and general:
Wheelbase: 93.4 in
Length: 165.1 in
Width: 69.0 in
Height: 46.9 in
Ground Clearance: 5 in
Curb Weight: 2778 pounds
Suspension:
Front: independant, unequal length A-arms, coil springs, tube shocks,
anti-roll bar
Rear: independant, chapman struts, lower A-arms, tie rods, coil springs,
tube shocks, anti-roll bar
Performance:
Stock
__________|_____________
/ \
92 BHP L-4 - 140 BHP V-6 - 190 BHP V-6 - 300 BHP V-8
0-30 3.3 - 2.2 - 1.8 - 1.3
0-40 5.0 - 3.8 - 3.3 - 2.6
0-50 7.5 - 5.4 - 4.4 - 3.4
0-60 10.9 - 7.5 - 5.7 - 4.9
1/4-mi 17.9 @ 77 - 15.7 @ 87 mph - 14.6 @ 97 mph - 13.0 @ 110 mph
Roadholding
300 ft skidpad .84g-.86g
Slalom 63.9 mph
55-0 braking 118 feet
60-0 braking 130 feet
70-0 braking 190 feet
Fade none

Mileage: 4-cylinder V-6
25 city/32 highway 21 city/28 highway


These posted numbers show an 86 Fiero braking from 70 – 0 mph in 190ft
Compared to these numbers from October 2004 Car and Driver the Fiero seems to have held up well when compared to newer cars unless the data above is total BS.
Acura TSX 70 – 0 mph in 194ft
Audi A4 1.8T 70 – 0 mph in 180ft
Subaru Legacy 2.5GT 70 – 0 mph in 196ft
Volvo S40 T5 70 – 0 mph in 166ft

It does seem that motorweek had the braking on the Fiero at around 125 ft from 55 – 0 mph where the above data says 118 ft. Seems like a big descrepency.

Anyone have some different sources for this kind of actual brake performance comparision?

I haven't tried searching the forum yet but it seems some in depth performance comparisons must have been done to show actual performance improvements for brake upgrades.

Edited to add a few more statistics I've run across, still not having much luck finding any independent tests on the Fiero.

From Car and Driver showdown
1994 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 70 - 0 mph 167ft
1994 FORD MUSTANG GT 70 - 0 mph 179ft


From Motor Trend
2003 Infiniti G35 Sport Sedan 60 - 0 mph 114ft
2003 Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe 60 - 0 mph 112ft

Edited one more time to add:

Been searching the forum and reading threads for a while now, getting tired.
I can't seem to find any actual comparison testing of any brake "upgrades" against the original brake system in "like-new" condition. All I seem to be able to find are seat of the pants comparisons with no details on the condition of the components/system replaced. Would be nice to see some actual statistics and test results.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 02-19-2007).]

Well since we are talking brakes. let me give you guys the trouble I am having on the 85 2m6 I have. I have new brake pads, but I still cannot brake the way I supposed to. Basically even though my pedal does not go all the way to the floor, but I have to push it really hard to be able to brake at all.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/072173.html
Biggest improvement I ever did for my brakes!
Kevin

------------------
85 Fiero-based ASPP GT-40 MarkII. 3800 S/C, Auto, Held suspension all around with 2" drop spindles and sport fr. end. RCC bump-steer correction. Mr. Mike's interior.

quote Originally posted by legendkiller76: Well since we are talking brakes. let me give you guys the trouble I am having on the 85 2m6 I have. I have new brake pads, but I still cannot brake the way I supposed to. Basically even though my pedal does not go all the way to the floor, but I have to push it really hard to be able to brake at all.

check the sliders for moving freely with proper lube
brake hoses are the next biggie
and your vacume booster is 22 years old
a new/rebuilt unit can help
test is if the brakes are the same with the motor off
on repeated pressing the brakes
you should feel vacume boost diffrence the first time
if not no boost action
check vacume line and check valve before replacing the booster
old rubber diafram can break as can lines or valve

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Did you get Carbomet pads as your replacement pads? They will be hard to brake with until they are broken in and seated. They also work better the hotter they are.
If you "rough up" the surface of the rotors, this will help break in the new pads more quickly and with less glazing. This also applies to any brake pads you choose to use regardless of what they are made of. To rough up the surface of the rotor just get a piece of coarse sandpaper and put some swirls on the surface of the rotor. A quick sanding will work and it doesn't need to make deep gouges neither.
Here is a link on how to break in your new pads. http://www.se-r.net/brakes/breakin.html