[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-16-2007).]

75 pounds.... wow.

This is some bell housing pictures.
4.4L RWD 6L80E trans

4.4L RWD Rear of the block and oil pan


4.6L RWD Rear of the block

4.6L FWD Rear of the block

3.6L LY7 FWD trans bell housing for the 6T75 trans

New 6 speed auto trans for the 3.6L FWD

A little info on the trans.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-08-2007).]

Now the $64,000 question is:

Since the LC3's ECM is designed to talk to the rear-drive 6-speed auto's TCM; will it talk to a front-drive 6-speed auto's TCM correctly without reprogramming?

-ryan

------------------
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

Interesting, but I cant say Im a fan of the supercharger.... (hehe, fan....centrifugal blower?)

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Now the $64,000 question is: Since the LC3's ECM is designed to talk to the rear-drive 6-speed auto's TCM; will it talk to a front-drive 6-speed auto's TCM correctly without reprogramming? -ryan

Please just open you eyes a little on this. I will review a little. 93 N* book states that the PCM will go into Torque reduction for the basic four instances
During Trans shift
Heavy accel from stop
Brakes are applied with moderate to heavy throttle
Driver abuse
You can add a fifth to the early years
Brake are applied with low brake booster vacuum.
That is the standard 4 or 5
The pcm will NOT use Torque Reduction if the following is present.
Coolant -40º C or above 131º
Low coolant level is present
RPM below 600

We all know that you will need a PWM torque desired signal. 90% Desired torque is 100% and 10% is 100% reduction.
If the stop/BTSI/Cruise Brake switch input circuit problem will Reduce Engine Power "torque management"
Loss of ABS/TCS Data. The PCM sets all serial data from the ABS/TCS to Zero.

96-99 PCM are DELCO and have similar Torque Management functions Except most do not use a BBV sensor.
This PCM is similar to a LS1 with more complex software.
2000 to 2003 use a Seimens PCM I will add info later on that PCM
2004 to 2005 use a small PCM I will add info later
2006 to 2007 use E67 ECM and High speed CAN. this is the same PCM/ECM in most GM cars. IT is known as a PIP controller. GM can plug and program as needed. This PCM uses the same software protocal in all lines. Almost all Tuner companies support this PCM for Northstars. A Ecotech uses this PCM.
I will post more info on tunning for this PCM.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Please just open you eyes a little on this.

Wow, sorry I asked.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: I will review a little. 93 N* book states that the PCM will go into Torque reduction for the basic four instances During Trans shift Heavy accel from stop Brakes are applied with moderate to heavy throttle Driver abuse You can add a fifth to the early years Brake are applied with low brake booster vacuum. That is the standard 4 or 5 The pcm will NOT use Torque Reduction if the following is present. Coolant -40º C or above 131º Low coolant level is present RPM below 600 We all know that you will need a PWM torque desired signal. 90% Desired torque is 100% and 10% is 100% reduction. If the stop/BTSI/Cruise Brake switch input circuit problem will Reduce Engine Power "torque management" Loss of ABS/TCS Data. The PCM sets all serial data from the ABS/TCS to Zero. 96-99 PCM are DELCO and have similar Torque Management functions Except most do not use a BBV sensor. This PCM is similar to a LS1 with more complex software. 2000 to 2003 use a Seimens PCM I will add info later on that PCM 2004 to 2005 use a small PCM I will add info later 2006 to 2007 use E67 ECM and High speed CAN. this is the same PCM/ECM in most GM cars. IT is known as a PIP controller. GM can plug and program as needed. This PCM uses the same software protocal in all lines. Almost all Tuner companies support this PCM for Northstars. A Ecotech uses this PCM. I will post more info on tunning for this PCM.

I already know all of this. I have access to the same current GM training materials as you do. And this didn't even come close to answering my question: WILL THE 4.4 SC N* ECM communicate with the FWD 6-speed Auto's TCM correctly??? I'm thinking you don't know and you won't easily be able to find out because GM isn't using the LC3 in a FWD application yet (if ever). And GM has a bad habit of only putting information out about stuff they build/sell, not about what can be swapped and what part might work with another.

The only reason WHY I asked is because the 6-speed auto RWD tranny has it's own TCM as does the 6-speed auto FWD tranny (6T70/6T75). All of the GM training information I have read on these TCM's makes no mention as to the actual structure of the data signal and communications protocols because that information is not required by the tech in order to do a repair. I assume the only people who would know this information would be the engineers who designed and programmed the new ECMs/TCMs for the items in question.

May I ask who is your zones field engineer?

Engine Control Module Connector End Views
Connector 1: Engine Control Module (ECM) C1

Connector 2: Engine Control Module (ECM) C2

Connector 3: Engine Control Module (ECM) C3


Engine Control Module (ECM) C1



Connector Part Information
• OEM: 34576-3103
• Service: 88988373
• Description: 56-Way F (BU)
Terminal Part Information
• Pins: 7, 18, 34, 39, 40, 44, 45, 53, 54, 56
• Terminal/Tray: 33467-0003/23
• Core/Insulation Crimp: H/H
• Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)
• Pins: 9, 12, 13, 20, 33, 35, 36, 37, 46, 47, 48, 49, 19, 55
• Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23
• Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 9, 12, 13, 20, 33, 35, 36, 37, 46, 47, 48, 49 - J/J
• Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 19, 55 - K/K
• Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)

Engine Control Module (ECM) C1
Pin
Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1-6 -- -- Not Used
7 WH 17 Stop Lamp Switch Signal
8 -- -- Not Used
9 TN 2759 Low Reference
10-11 -- -- Not Used
12 BN/WH 419 MIL Control
13 D-GN/WH 465 Fuel Pump Relay Control (Primary)
14-17 -- -- Not Used
18 YE/BK 5728 ECM/TCM Serial Data Wake Up
19 PK 239 Run/Crank Ignition 1 Voltage
20 RD/WH 1440 Battery Positive Voltage
21-32 -- -- Not Used
33 WH/BK 1164 Accelerator Pedal Position 5-Volt Reference (1)
34 GY 2709 5-Volt Reference
35 TN 1274 5-Volt Reference
36 BN 1271 Low Reference
37 PU 1272 Low Reference
38 -- -- Not Used
39 BN 818 Vehicle Speed Signal
40 BN 5069 Powertrain Relay Control
41-43 -- -- Not Used
44 D-BU 1936 Fuel Level Sensor Signal (Secondary)
45 L-BU 1937 Secondary Fuel Level Sensor Signal
46 BN 7123 Super Charger Inlet Air Pressure Sensor Signal
47 D-BU 1161 APP Sensor 1 Signal
48 D-GN 890 Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal
49 L-BU 1162 APP Sensor 2 Signal
50-52 -- -- Not Used
53 D-GN/WH 459 A/C Compressor Clutch Relay Control
54 D-BU 473 High Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
55 WH 1310 EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid Control
56 YE 447 Starter Relay Coil COntrol

Engine Control Module (ECM) C2



Connector Part Information
• OEM: 34566-0103
• Service: 88988931
• Description: 73-Way F (BK)
Terminal Part Information
• Pins: 73
• Terminal/Tray: 7116-4152-02/9
• Core/Insulation Crimp: 2/5
• Release Tool/Test Probe: 12094430/J-35616-35 (VT)
• Pins: 13, 28, 45, 65
• Terminal/Tray: 33467-0003/23
• Core/Insulation Crimp: H/H
• Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)
• Pins: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 11, 12
• Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23
• Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72 - J/J
• Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 11, 12 - K/K
• Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)

Engine Control Module (ECM) C2
Pin
Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1 PU 2121 IC 1 Control
2 TN/WH 3111 HO2S Low Reference (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
3 PU/WH 3110 HO2S Reference Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
4 PU 3120 HO2S High Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
5 TN/WH 3121 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
6 L-BU 1876 Knock Sensor 2 Signal
7 GY 2303 Low Reference
8 D-BU 496 Knock Sensor (1) Signal
9 GY 1716 Low Reference
10 -- -- Not Used
11 YE 581 TAC Motor Control - 1
12 BN 582 TAC Motor Control - 2
13 PK/BK 5290 Ignition 1 Voltage
14 PK/BK 6395 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Intake Bank 1 Control
15 TN/BK 6397 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Intake Bank 2 Control
16 D-BU/WH 878 Fuel Injector 8 Control
17 OG/WH 2122 IC 2 Control
18 L-BU/WH 2126 IC 6 Control
19 BN/WH 2130 Low Reference
20 PU 6267 Low Reference
21 TN 6268 Low Reference
22 WH 6269 Low Reference
23 BN 6266 Low Reference
24 BK 2755 Low Reference
25 D-GN 7125 Super Charger Inlet Air Pressure Sensor Return
26 -- -- Not Used
27 GY/BK 6272 Low Reference
28 PK/BK 5290 Ignition 1 Voltage
29 TN 2752 Low Reference
30 BN/WH 6754 Low Reference
31 D-BU/WH 6756 Low Reference
32 PK/BK 1746 Fuel Injector 3 Control
33 OG 2127 IC 7 Control
34 D-GN 2125 IC 5 Control
35 BN 2129 Low Reference
36 D-GN 6457 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Exhaust Bank 1 Signal
37 OG 6260 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Intake Bank 2 Signal
38 PK 6261 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Exhaust Bank 2 Signal
39 D-GN 6259 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Intake Bank 1 Signal
40 GY 2705 5-Volt Reference
41 YE/BK 7124 5-Volt Reference
42 TN 2760 Low Reference
43 PU/WH 6270 5-Volt Reference
44 GY 2701 5-Volt Reference
45 BN 6273 Oil Temperature Sensor Low Reference
46 BN 6753 Low Reference
47 D-BU 6755 Low Reference
48 L-GN/BK 1745 Fuel Injector 2 Control
49 TN/WH 845 Fuel Injector 5 Control
50 WH/BK 6396 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Exhaust Bank 1 Control
51 GY/BK 6394 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Exhaust Bank 2 Control
52 L-BU/BK 844 Fuel Injector 4 Control
53 L-BU 2123 IC 3 Control
54 D-GN/WH 2124 IC 4 Control
55 PU/WH 2128 IC 5 Control
56 D-GN/WH 6264 5-Volt Reference
57 OG/BK 6263 5-Volt Reference
58 PK/BK 6262 5-Volt Reference
59 D-BU/WH 6265 5-Volt Reference
60 TN/WH 331 Oil Pressure Sensor Signal
61 -- -- Not Used
62 TN 472 IAT Sensor Signal
63 WH/BK 6271 CKP Sensor Signal
64 D-GN 485 TP Sensor 1 Signal
65 D-GN/WH 357 TCC Release Switch Signal
66 PU 486 TP Sensor 2 Signal
67 YE 492 MAF Sensor Signal
68 GY/WH 3113 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
69 GY/WH 3122 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
70 YE/BK 846 Fuel Injector 6 Control
71 OG/BK 877 Fuel Injector 7 Control
72 TN 1744 Fuel Injector 1Control
73 BK/WH 1551 Ground

Engine Control Module (ECM) C3



Connector Part Information
• OEM: 34566-3303
• Service: 88988372
• Description: 73-Way F (GY)
Terminal Part Information
• Pins: 73
• Terminal/Tray: 7116-4152-02/9
• Core/Insulation Crimp: 2/5
• Release Tool/Test Probe: 12094430/J-35616-35 (VT)
• Pins: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 14, 15, 16, 18, 21, 22, 23, 29, 33, 34, 35, 37, 38, 39, 46, 50, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59
• Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23
• Core/Insulation Crimp: J/J
• Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)
• Pins: 48, 49
• Terminal/Tray: 33467-0003/23
• Core/Insulation Crimp: H/H
• Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU)

Engine Control Module (ECM) C3
Pin
Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1-2 -- -- Not Used
3 TN/WH 3211 HO2S Low Reference (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
4 PU/WH 3210 HO2S Reference Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
5 PU 3220 HO2S High Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
6 TN 3221 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
7 OG 225 Generator Turn On Signal
8-13 -- -- Not Used
14 L-BU 7126 Super Charger Vacuum Bypass Valve Control
15 L-GN 3212 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
16 PK 2014 Coolant Pump Relay Control
17 -- -- Not Used
18 BN 1174 Oil Level Switch Signal
19-20 -- -- Not Used
21 BK/WH 2751 Low Reference
22 OG/BK 6014 BARO Sensor Low Reference
23 OG/BK 469 Low Reference
24-28 -- -- Not Used
29 GY 23 Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal
30-32 -- -- Not Used
33 TN 2501 High Speed GMLAN Serial Data Bus -
34 YE/BK 6120 IAT2 Low Reference
35 TN 2761 Low Reference
36 -- -- Not Used
37 GY 2700 5-Volt Reference
38 WH/BK 2932 5-Volt Reference
39 GY 2704 5-Volt Reference
40-45 -- -- Not Used
46 OG/BK 1786 Park/Neutral Signal
47 -- -- Not Used
48 PU 428 EVAP Canister Purge SOlenoid Control
49 D-GN 335 Low Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
50 OG/BK 3223 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
51-52 -- -- Not Used
53 TN-BK 2500 High Speed GMLAN Serial Data Bus +
54 -- -- Not Used
55 YE 410 ECT Sensor Signal
56 L-BU 6118 IAT2 Signal
57 OG/BK 380 A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal
58 GY-BK 433 BARO Sensor Signal
59 L-GN 432 MAP Sensor Signal
60-72 -- -- Not Used
73 BK/WH 1551 Ground
________________________________________

AJxtcman, so what does the PCM do if there is nothing connected to terminal 33 or 53 on the C3 connector?

ECMs used
2006----GMX211---Impala -----------Z4 ----------3.5L ---------High Value V6 --------- E67
2006----GMX211---Impala LZ9 3.9L High Value V6 E67
2006----GMX211---Impala LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E67
2006----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZ4 3.5L High Value V6 E67
2006----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZ9 3.9L High Value V6 E67
2006----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E67
2006----GMX272---Cad. DTS L37 4.6L PV8 -E67
2006----GMX272---Cad. DTS LD8 4.6L PV8 -E67
2006----GMX222---Lucerne LD8 4.6L PV8 --E67
2007----GMX211---Impala LS4 5.3L Gen IV V8-- E67
2007----GMX211---Impala LZ4 3.5L High Value V6 E38
2007----GMX211---Impala LZ8 3.9L (DoD) High Value V6 E38
2007----GMX211---Impala LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E38
2007----GMX231---Monte Carlo LS4 5.3L Gen IV V8- E67
2007----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZ4 3.5L High Value V6 E38
2007----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E38
2007----GMX272---Cad. DTS L37 4.6L PV8 E67
2007----GMX272---Cad. DTS LD8 4.6L PV8 E67
2007----GMX222---Lucerne LD8 4.6L PV8 E67
2007----Holden VE (Zeta) Commodore L76 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38
2007----Holden VE (Zeta) Commodore L98 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38
2007----Holden VE (Zeta) Commodore LS2 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38
2007----Holden WM (Zeta) Statesman L76 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38
2007----Holden WM (Zeta) Caprice ??? ??? Gen IV V8- E38
2007----GMT921---Tahoe LMG 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT921---Tahoe LY2 4.8L Gen IV V8- E38
2007----GMT921---Tahoe LY5 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT922---Yukon L92 6.2L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT922---Yukon LMG 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT922---Yukon LY2 4.8L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT922---Yukon LY5 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT926---Escalade L92 6.2L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38
2007----GMT966-- Outlook LY7 3.6L High Feature V6 E67
2007----GMT968--- Acadia LY7 3.6L High Feature V6 E67
2007----GMT265--- SRX LH2 4.6L PV8 --------- E67
2007----C105 Antara LZC 3.0L 60° V6 China E67


2006
Marque Modèle 8e caractère ÉFC Grosseur ECM du
du NIV du moteur du moteur moteur
GMT001 Chevrolet HHR P LE5 2,4 L E67
GMT201 Chevrolet Uplander 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
Saturn Relay 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
Pontiac Montana SV6 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
Buick Terraza 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
GMX001 Chevrolet Cobalt B LE5 2,4 L E67
Pontiac Pursuit B LE5 2,4 L E67
GMX020 Pontiac Solstice B LE5 2,4 L E67
GMX023 Saturn Sky B LE5 2,4 L E67
GMX211 Chevrolet Impala
N LZ4 3,5 L E67
1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
C LS4 5,3 L E67
GMX215-V Cadillac XLR D LC3 4,4 L SC E67
GMX222 Buick Lucerne Y LD8 4,6 L E67
GMX231 Chevrolet Monte Ca K LZE 3,5 L E67
N LZ4 3,5 L E67
1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
GMX272 Cadillac DTS Y LD8 4,6 L E67
9 LD8 4,6 L E67
GMX295-V Cadillac STS-V D LC3 4,4 L SC E67
GMX320-V Cadillac CTS-V D LS2 6,0 L E67
GMX365 Buick La Crosse/Allu C LS4 5,3 L E67
1 LZ9 3,9 L E67
GMX380 Chevrolet Malibu B LE5 2,4 L E67
GMX381 Pontiac G6 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67

are the cam phasers controlled by the ecm or oil pressure? if you can narrow down what the ecm actually looks for/controlls, mabye it could be removed and just use standalone engine management? im sure with most of the new gm/ford engines using all of these drive by wire/cam phasing/drive an engine like a playstation things that sds or painless will come out with a compatible management system. even then if you could remove this stuff and go back to a good ol drive by cable system with standalone it might make this swap easier.

as for you guys getting the gm technical man.s can you get me these books for the engines im more likely to see? like the ecotech and vortech and 350(whatever engine code it is by now), and nstar? i doubt ill work on an xlr-v any time in my life but it would be nice to know whats going on with the more mainstream cars. i can trade vw tech information if anyone actually cares.

The 4.4L ECM also the 6.0L
GM PART # 12603530
CATEGORY: Emission Control System Hardware
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $383.88
OUR PRICE: $199.62

One of are new used cars.

So if the heads are "mostly unchanged" can you bolt them to a front wheel drive N* block? I am not asking about the accessories and such, just the head bolt pattern and chain drive cut outs.

------------------

Unchanged from the RWD cylinder heads.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: So if the heads are "mostly unchanged" can you bolt them to a front wheel drive N* block? I am not asking about the accessories and such, just the head bolt pattern and chain drive cut outs.

No.

The RWD VVT northstars have a larger oil pump due to the VVT system which makes them incompatible with any block that didn't have the VVT whether or not they physically bolt on.

Thank Ryan I had forgot the NO part.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Thank Ryan I had forgot the NO part.

Please more info?

We got a new STS V in. I was told it was ordered from someone. I have a couple of pictures right off the truck.

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OUCH
fiberglass?