Just a quick question, I was noticing that my data is rather jumpy, and i'm curious as to if differnt settings can correct this. I would go test it but my brother has my car, and i'm impatient to know the answer.
Will reducing the logged data (eg sensor only) increase the refresh rate?
What is the proper stream settings in the calibration menu?
Thanks!
------------------ Without Fear there is no Courage { '86 Fiero 2M4 5spd, '05 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison }
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03:34 PM
PFF
System Bot
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
Nope. the data stream is the same from the ecm no matter what you selelct for logging, and the pc is waiting on data, not being overrun. the 160 baud data rate combined with the slow ecm make some data appear jumpy. not much you can do about it, it is the limitations of the ecm, not the program/pc.
You can also have noise cause bad values that knock the graph off. What I usually do is open the file in excel or other spread sheet software and you can scan down the columns and see the data that is completely bad. You can delete those rows and then the graphs will look a lot better.
One other tip is to open it in view and note the time value of the places there the data is grabage and then you can find them when you open it in the spread sheet program.
Hope that makes since.
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06:23 PM
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
Ok another question?, when I do a full log a few data fields have data, but say not used, Anybody know what these feilds are?
MCU210:Not Used (1-0 Ranged) MCU2IO:Not Used (1-0 Ranged) MW2:Not used
Also what should the MWAF1: First time Closed Graph look like? Mine is steady 1 untill the car goes clsed loop, then it cycles 1-0 rapidly (about 3 times every 10 seconds) Is this normal?
Originally posted by DMaxME: Ok another question?, when I do a full log a few data fields have data, but say not used, Anybody know what these feilds are? MCU210:Not Used (1-0 Ranged) MCU2IO:Not Used (1-0 Ranged) MW2:Not used Also what should the MWAF1: First time Closed Graph look like? Mine is steady 1 untill the car goes clsed loop, then it cycles 1-0 rapidly (about 3 times every 10 seconds) Is this normal?
Originally posted by DMaxME: I was noticing that my data is rather jumpy,
Try a ground from the laptop to a chassis or good interior ground. If you use a desk top (no moving/driving the car of course) it won`t jump on you like the laptops do.
Being were talking about WinALDL maybe someone can answer a couple of question, Will this program work with a 3800SC? If not does anyone know of a program that will work and use the same cable that winaldl used.
Welcome to the forum, The winaldl won`t work with the 3800SC --its a very slow program // just like our regular Fieros ecm`s are. This will help explain it more, also you can look under the supported vehicles at the bottom of the page. http://winaldl.joby.se/ I don`t think any obd2 program can use the winaldl cable. Theres a bunch of sites with the 3800sc info your looking for out there, 3800performance, zz-performance, gtp club, ect, ect, do a quick google search and it will turn up lots of goodies for you---I think your wanting to know if there is a way to scan or run a program for your 3800SC---the answer is yes--unfortunately--you can`t use the winaldl, hope this helps some.
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08:20 AM
Jan 19th, 2007
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
Another Question, Looking at the O2 Sensor data, it seems to range from 0 to 1 and spike regurlarly, which is normal. My only question is whic is lean or rich, 0 or 1? and does the average give me what the car's running like? I'm working on a rich burn condition, and am trying to relate some sensor data. Thanks in advance!
Don't even bother with the O2 what you want to watch is the INT an BLM.
The INT is what the ecm is looking at to adjust the fuel trying to keep it at 14:1 ratio.
The INT can run above and below 128 by several counts but if it is running above and below by a large margin then you have problems. Above 128 means your engine is running rich, below is lean.
Here is a post you can read up on to understand more about the ecm. Read my post down a couple screens on how the ecm works. Make a note about looking at reading during a constant speed run.
yea, at idle my Integrator vaules range from 130-145 with an average 5 point swing. I'm having trouble with what to make of this. It would seem that at Idle it should bee rather steady.
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09:14 PM
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
Alsom my BLM holds fairly steady at 121, and then after 160s with negligable changes in RPM or throttle / It begins to climb. Unfortunatly i cut off the engine right as this happened, so i only have base numbers logged, I'll get som more tomorrow. Have any thoughts as to wherre to start? If i knew how to post pictures i could show you.
You can't look at the BLM until you have driven for a while and at a fairly constant speed. Short runs and large varying throttle changes don't give the BLM time to start working.
An INT at idle boucing from 125 to around 135 or so is normal, have seem them go higher, but it should try to go below 128 now and then.
If the int & blm readings on a data log run ex: 10 mile flat road 55mph are not to far below or above 128 to 135 your doing fine... Keep in mind *average* when logging, there will be high/low spikes. When either very high or low spikes/values become most of what your logs are reading--then theres a problem.
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02:41 AM
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
I have some highway data, During a long stretch of highway, at about 65mph, fairly constant in both throttle and speed, the INT values range between 125 and 135, and the BLM holds steady at 119 + - 1. And if i look a a the rich/lean flags the ecm is throwing them everywhere. I'm not sure where to look with this.
IAC holds a 900 rpm idle at 16 counts, and holds idle within 50rpm, dosen't get any better than that. IAC also stays open during cruising, but usually around 10 counts.
During this even cruise timeframe I mentioned up top the MAP holds steady at about 85kPa @2400rpm/70mph/30TPS
But no trouble lights, and the car smells rich, as well as my friend, whos a mechanic says its running rich, but he dosne't know why either. any ideas?
Hot engine idle iac counts should be between 30--35 . 02 sensor would be a good place to look when the engine is running rich. The rich lean counter will keep adding a check in the box constantly, I wouldn`t worry about that to much right now, is it throwing error codes?
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09:51 AM
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
I pulled the Cat Today, not necessarily the problem, I was working with a hypothesis that if the cat was plugged, or partly plugged the high exhaust backpressure would let too much EGR pass back into the intake, essentially acting as a vacuum leak. Although the rich counter is still going, the rate has slowed, and my baseline BLm and INT values have also changed, even at idle. Currently i'm looking at BLM fairly steady between 125 and 126, cruising, and an INT 122to 124, i thought this was a good result, although not relieving the rich counter.
By the way, with the exhaust pipe cut i had to fire up the old duke, and man A that thing is loud, and B sounds like a 60's hotrod! I was so pleased it didn't sound ricey. with it all backtogether it sounds similar to before, but slightly louder, and the engine seems to rev a little more freely.
Back to the rich concern. I've gone through 4 O2 sensors on this thing. My friend the mechanic said the Bosch unit was lagging, and put in a brand new Delco one, and tested OK, so i'm pretty sure that's not the problem. I know since it's not throwing codes i could probably just live with it, but a rich condition could affect my gas mileage, and at $3 a gallon, i have to keep track of every ounce. Where to next?
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04:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
The BLM reading that low does mean the ecm is trying to cut the fuel back so it is doing what it's suppose to.
Have you done a fuel leak down test to see if you have a leaking injector or high fuel pressure? If you really are running rich those are the first things I would check.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-20-2007).]
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10:31 PM
Jan 21st, 2007
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
Also check you coolant temp as reported in winaldl. the mat temp also. Low temps will cause a rich run condition, very noticable one too. I went thru 3 tstats til I got one that operated correctly. that fixed the pig rich problem.
Your cts and mat sensors readings should be right around the same--a few degress off is ok, if its 32 degrees where your checking, the temps/values for both should be not to far off, this would be on a cold car/engine check, these 2 sensors play a key role in fuel delievery before closed loop occurs. Use the sensor data box on winaldl, check both before starting the engine (first start of the day) , if the mat is 58.9 and coolant temp sensor is reading 35 and its 32 out-side--you have a problem with the mat sensor--and visa-versa
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09:22 AM
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
I dont think the duke has a MAT, and if so i'm not sure where it is, it's not even on winaldl. for CTs, it seems to operate properly, as it gradually increases to about 190* and then begins a + - 5deg cycle, which is normal i think. i'll check the fuel pressure today (and leakdown)
So would the thermac not operating (the Vac line to it is missing) affect it's warm operation? It runs rich at running temperature? I assume that may be the source for some of my cold running problems
It might make it a little richer due to the cold air but would not think that much. It would have to be fairly cold weather to make a big difference in how rich.
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04:18 PM
PFF
System Bot
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
ooops, didn;t realize this is a 4, duh. that thermac connector should open the air to the normal flow when the car is warm. when cold it draws in warm air to the motor to help the fuel mix and to warm it quicker. I believe they are designed to default to no hot air if it fails.
cts will effect closed loop fuel mix, it is used all the time, but very critical in open loop mode. the FSM for the 86 duke says fuel mix is controlled by the 02 ,tps and map when driving. map problems will cause some issues, as it will richen the mix on vacuum low assuming acceleration, or higher load on the engine.
int and blm are indicators, they change based on inputs to the ecm, so you really need to get some comparison from a good running duke for tps and map values.
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05:27 PM
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
Is there a test for the map sensor? I guess i could just hook up a Vacuum gauge and see if the values are close. The Throttle position sensor seems to behave well in winaldl.
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06:34 PM
Jan 23rd, 2007
DMaxME Member
Posts: 184 From: Rochester, NY Registered: Dec 2006
Yesterday i tested the fuel pressure, it was way high, i picked up a used throttle body (complete) and poped it on. The car runs drastically bertter. The ECM is still throwing rich flags according to winaldl, but it dosen't smell rich anymore, and the hesitation is gone. So my last question is, maybe this whole time i've had winaldl set up wrong? What ECM type should i use for my '86 2M4 5-Speed?
