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One man's quest for more bass from the stock setup... by Bigfieroman
Started on: 08-30-2006 09:57 AM
Replies: 67
Last post by: Bigfieroman on 12-20-2007 11:01 PM
Bigfieroman
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Report this Post08-30-2006 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BigfieromanClick Here to visit Bigfieroman's HomePageClick Here to Email BigfieromanSend a Private Message to BigfieromanDirect Link to This Post
Well, I have been trying to get more bass from the stock system for as long as I have had the car. I don't want to put in a 10" or 8", because I don't want to give up the room or spend the money.

When I got the car, the system distorted badly. I got fed up with the crappy bass and took the stock sub out to see if the previous owner installed Rodney's sub right. I have seen things the guy had done elsewhere and I was suspicious.

Turns out I was correct in my suspicions. First, he routed speaker wirebetween the grate and the housing, allowing pressure to leak and cracking the housing. Also, he tightened the 8 bolts around the outside WAY too much and cracked the housing at every screw. Some cracks were 1/4" wide (I think pressure can get through that? /sarcasm)

He also installed the sub like a fricking retard. He must have thrown away the instructions, because he dremeled off some of the metal ring on the speaker to get it fit in the plastic grate with the bracket on top, like the stock speaker. The gasket was squished to about 2 mm thick. The trump card was the wiring. He took a short lenth of speaker wire and attached it to the stock wiring with twist caps. Then he stripped 1/2" off the other ends, and put the wire through the hole in the connection tabs, and bent it over to hold it in place. The wire was corroded really badly, I cannot believe the thing still worked. I swear, I think this guy had a learning disability.

I installed a new sub from Rodney correctly, and I ran the wires out of the port. I soldered on the connectors and new speaker wire. The system sounded much better, very tight and punchy, but still not as loud as I wanted. I never heard the stock sub, so I don't know how it compares, but I am sure a working, NOS example would be hard to find and expensive.

I was going to get an 8" setup with wikid_one's box, but it would have cost $300+ and required hours of work to remove the performance sound system without cutting everything. Plus, I really didn't want that much more bass, and I would prolly be buying much more than I needed.

So, I decided to try to get more bass from the stock system. I searched the archives to see that Jazzman was working on finding a better replacement, but he never completed his experiments. The posts did point me to www.partsexpress.com. After some research, I found that the stock sub was a 5.25" 4 ohm unit, and the stock amp was 25w rms and crossovered at 125 hz. Also, the stock enclosure is 0.16 cubic feet in volume, and the port is 10" long with a 1.375" diameter.

Looking around at partsexpress.com in the 5-6" subwoofer area, I found one that fit the parameters pretty well:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-302

I have no idea how Rodney's sub matches up to the stock enclosure, but the tech guys at partsexpress.com helped me tune the enclosure to the new sub.

I purchased that sub and this acoustic fill, to tune the enclosure (enclosure is smaller than optimal)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-317
I used Rodney's gaskets, from here:
http://www.rodneydickman.com/n60.html

Anyway, I was planning on using a piece of plywood to mount the speaker outside of the box, but when it arrived, I found that it had the same bolt pattern as the mounting ring and the stock grille.

Here is the bad part. This sub offered better bass and is very cheap (total project price was ~$35), but there were about 4 hours of cutting, fitting, and other fabrication to make it fit.

The sub ring is too large to fit in the stock enclosure, so I removed parts with a cutoff wheel. Also, the stock mounting ring won't quite fit around the sub, so I had to cut off and only use the corners, and they still had to be trimmed on the inside to fit. After all that, the gasket doesn't seal perfectly against the speaker, and it interferes with the speaker rubber suspension surround. I had to pull it back and hold it that way while bolting it all together. I used lots of silicone on the gaskets to make sure every thing sealed up.

I also packed the fill into the enclosure, as little as possible to fill the space. It is needed to virtually make the enclosure bigger from the point of view of the sub. On the advice of Orief, I also capped the port.

So, how did it sound? It was better, and at some frequencies was probably double the volume of the Rodney sub. There was one problem; the sub just didn't have enough travel for the amp. When I faced the speaker, I could hear the driver clunking on the hard notes as it bottomed out. The clunking was not audible when the enclosure was installed, but the system still clipped and was very boomy.

There was one subwoofer on partsexpress.com that would have been much better, but it was out of stock for a long, long time. I had it backordered for about 3 months once I decided I was going to try it instead of the weak sub I replaced Rodney's with.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-831

To install this sub, I first removed the old setup. Then I added a bit more stuffing (the new sub needs more volume), but not much. I tried to install the sub the same way as the last one, but it did not have the same bolt pattern and was larger. I struggled for several minutes, I thought I wasn't going to be able to use it. Then I had a brainstorm.

I attached a new Rodney gasket on the opening of the enclosure and dropped in the new sub, with the sub's flange sealing to the gasket. I know it sounds half-ass, but I secured the sub with zip ties through the old mounting holes. I then coated the sealing surfaces in black silicone, to ensure a seal and hide the zip ties. It isn't pretty, but it sealed like a dream, holds the sub securely, and adds some more enclosure volume. The only downside is that the cone is unprotected from passengers' feet. I can get pics if anyone wants.

So...how does this one sound?

Exactly how I wanted it to. It is MUCH more precise than the last woofer, and has at least as much bass. Also, this sub has 9.25mm of travel, (old one was 2.5mm) and it moves a ton, but it does not bottom out like the last one. It has at least as much bass as the last one, which is noticably more than Rodney's, but it is more precise. I really like it, it sounds like the whole car's frequency response is flat now, without dropping off in the low end. It is finally up to the sound quality of the rest of my system. This is not car-shaking bass, but it is felt and heard.

------------------

More info at: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043357.html

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tjm4fun
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Report this Post08-30-2006 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funClick Here to Email tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
nice deal. I had gotten the fierostore 's copied enclosure and their speaker initially. I had no amp, so I added a 150w max mono bass amp, roughly 65w true power. speaker lasted about 6 mos,started to cackle and then died. it is a 100w speaker, and I had the amp dialed down to match the head, which is a 25wx4 aftermarket unit. while it worked it sounded very nice, the speaker is an almost perfect match to the enclosure, no boom. so I grabbed this cheapy from PE: ( I was ordering some a/v stuff anyway)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-302
8 ohm to decrease power out from the amp. really I should have ordered a 5" woofer, that is likely the correct size. I would expect the more perfect speaker is one of those 5" morel cast frame units for my power needs, plus the enclosure volume numbers are a close match. I had to dremel the ring to size to fit the enclosure.
result is the speaker makes good bass, but does pop at high punch type bass.
the old woofer's defect was the braided flex wire from the terminal to the cone has broken at the cone, a major problem with longer throw woofers, especially cheaper ones.
for those not looking to do alot of hacking, I would look at the 5" woofer series, they should fit better, no gaurentees tho.
I like that TB speaker you got, but I want the protection of a grill.
I will likely get back to trying other speakers when I get time, at least now I have another option. I'll post the actual measurements of the original aftermarket speaker that came with the enclosure later, so others can have the refernece for overall size, mounting hole spacing etc.
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Bigfieroman
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Report this Post08-30-2006 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BigfieromanClick Here to visit Bigfieroman's HomePageClick Here to Email BigfieromanSend a Private Message to BigfieromanDirect Link to This Post
I could probably add a waffle-style grille fairly easily, as the flange of the speaker is still exposed, but this speaker has that wide roll surround, and I think that will hit a grille unless I can stand it off quite a bit. I am going to see how much of a problem the exposed cone is and perhaps add one later.
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Fiero1Fan
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Report this Post08-30-2006 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero1FanClick Here to visit Fiero1Fan's HomePageClick Here to Email Fiero1FanSend a Private Message to Fiero1FanDirect Link to This Post
I would like to see any pix you have.
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Whuffo
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Report this Post08-30-2006 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WhuffoClick Here to visit Whuffo's HomePageClick Here to Email WhuffoSend a Private Message to WhuffoDirect Link to This Post
If you can find an original Performance Sound sub speaker and housing - the speaker can be repaired. It's usually only the foam ring that supports the cone that needs to be replaced and any competent speaker rebuilder can do this inexpensively.

That original speaker is a custom designed unit with some pretty unusual features. When working correctly, it easily outperforms both Rodney's and the Fiero Store's replacment units.

With the original sub working as designed, the sound is very punchy and has plenty of bass - too much, in fact if you turn the sub all the way up. If you don't find this level of bass sufficient, then you'll need to step up to the high-buck equipment to make a noticeable improvement.
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tjm4fun
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Report this Post08-30-2006 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funClick Here to Email tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
I hate to disagree, but I had a perfect oem from the factory system in my 86. it is boomy and mushy. I found it disgusting to use on max, till I tuned the enclosure, then it was passable, but still boomy and not much punch. it was a kludge, but it was needed to get any semblence of bass at the time.
it in no way is near as good as the after market speaker that came with the fierostore unit, but I doubt that the stock amp could drive it properly. I had sharp punch, and smooth bass with little resonant boom on it without redoing any tuning, it would probably last quite a while with the stock amp, but I was pushing it a little too hard even with a clean 50w drive.
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fierosound
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Report this Post12-17-2006 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
Did anyone take pictures of the installation of these alternate sub speakers? Could you post them please?

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-17-2006).]

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vortecfiero
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Report this Post12-17-2006 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for vortecfieroClick Here to visit vortecfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email vortecfieroSend a Private Message to vortecfieroDirect Link to This Post
for what its worth

good deep bass is achieved by making the correct enclosure the correct size for the driver (speaker).
there are many types of enclosures from the infinte baffle (simple sealed box)
to the stuff that Bose messes with. Each Driver is designed to 3 parameters
also known as Thiele data. Manufactures will tell you the ideal enclosure for the driver
or you can calculate it using the data.
Just sticking a driver in any box and then guessing at port diameter and length
will never let the driver reach its full potential. There is a lot of physics involved.

My favorite speakers i built are a Tuned Labyrinth enclosure called a transmission line
I can shake the house with 5 watts of power and have reached 17hz in testing.

speaker sound is like music... and everyone has their own opinion... testing will
verify specs.. but the warmth of the sound is also important.

------------------

GT just waiting for the conversion
84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT
L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM
T31 turbine with T04B S3 compressor
super T61 waiting for next winter
www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

[This message has been edited by vortecfiero (edited 12-17-2006).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post12-17-2006 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:

There is a lot of physics involved.



Agreed, but this thread was dealing with what you can do with the stock enclosure. The specs on the suggested woofer match the stock enclosure very well.

The closest thing I've seen in the automotive market that replicate the Bose Wave system are Compression Drivers.
Very high efficiency and wide dispersion, but awkward to fit (especially in a Fiero) and fairly pricey.
http://www.carstereoworld.com/imagedyn/idhldmain.html

More on HLCDs here: http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=37

For someone designing a complete system, I'd suggest studying this site. Gives you everything you need to consider. http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/caraudio.asp


------------------

3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-17-2006).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post12-20-2006 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
Excellent writeup on the fundamantals of Car Audio
http://www.myzx3.com/images/how-to/audio/fundamentals_of_car_audio_pt1.pdf
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post12-20-2006 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
I actually just went through this with one of my other cars. I have a 2002 Crown Victoria LX. Back in 1997, they offered a factory subwoofer system in the car. I liked the idea of having a subwoofer, but I wanted it to look stock. They never made a subwoofer for the 2002 (or anything after 1997), but the factory enclosure would STILL fit. Since the trunk and C pillars of the Crown Vics changed, the rear bracket of the sub had to be modified (since the parcel shelf was now shorter).

All that aside, the connections were still there for a subwoofer in trunk of the 2002. I had gotten all the amps (two stage amps) , and the speakers all set up, and it sounded like crap.

What I ended up doing, was buying an aftermarket 2-channel amp which I bridged and used to power the subwoofer speaker. I actually purchased a fairly decent 5.25" Bazooka tube system, removed the speaker, and used THAT in the factory subwoofer enclosure. (It was an 85 watt speaker and powered it with an 80 watt 2-channel amp (when bridged).

The sound now is much much better.

I plan to do this in my Fiero as well, the only difference being that I intend to purchase an aftermarket amp that will neatly fit behind the passenger kick panel (where the factory amp is). I also intend to purchase one that makes use of the remote gain switch in the overhead console.


Anyway, the point of my post is also to mention that... if you're still using the stock speakers everywhere else in your car, then you're never going to get good sound. What you really need to do is purchase a good set of speakers all around. Alpine and Kenwood both offer fairly inexpensive OEM replacement speakers for our cars (4x10s in the dash, and 4x6s in the B pillars).

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2) 5-Speed
1984 Porsche 944 5-Speed
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

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fierosound
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Report this Post12-20-2006 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I plan to do this in my Fiero as well, the only difference being that I intend to purchase an aftermarket amp that will neatly fit behind the passenger kick panel (where the factory amp is). I also intend to purchase one that makes use of the remote gain switch in the overhead console.



I'm installing an updated system in a car right now. I'm using Eclipse 4"x10"s in the dash and Eclipse 3.5"s in the seats. A 2000+ Pontiac Monsoon CD player will power those. I'll be using an Xtant 1.1i 100 watt mono amp to drive a subwoofer in the stock housing. I've just ordered the TB sub from Parts Express for this. The Xtant amp is 6.5" x 5.7" x 1.6" high which will fit under the passenger seat out of the way.

Compare the amp size to the deck. Amp specs http://xtant.com/html/products/xtant1.1i.cfm



Adapter wiring harness with line output adapter and Low Pass filter.
NE-7V adapter http://www.davidnavone.com/adaptor_products.htm
PFMOD LP-1 crossover http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=26

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-22-2006).]

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timgray
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Report this Post12-20-2006 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for timgrayClick Here to visit timgray's HomePageClick Here to Email timgraySend a Private Message to timgrayDirect Link to This Post
Grab some books on 7th order and isobaric designs. You can with a set of 4-4" drivers create a very respectable amount of low frequency bass. Basic design for a 5th order simple design... a box with a box in front of it. then you place two speakers face to face wired out of phase with each other to half the box volume needed while doubling the power. You could build a box that is 5 inches thick that would easily fit behind the passenger seat at the bottom and create gobs of low frequency bass. Now do the same to the Stock sub, except fill the sub with a loose poly speaker insulation and modify the mouth slightly to use a 6" woofer instead. you will probably have to cut the vent tube (port) to tune the box and figure out how to stiffen it a bit or tolerate the boomy sound it will make because of how flexible the stock sub box is. If you can stiffen that box you will get better bass.

Now get good at complex box design, make the cabinet out of fiberglass and stiffen it a lot you could fit 4 5.25 subs behind the seats in 3" of space. (the right poly fill and box design.) You could also build boxes behind the dash speakers and port them to get some decent midbass. you can make the fiero look bone stock and sound incredible with lots of advanced math and designs.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 12-21-2006).]

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Raifalino
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Report this Post12-21-2006 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaifalinoClick Here to Email RaifalinoSend a Private Message to RaifalinoDirect Link to This Post
You guys make it sound so easy...like all it takes is geting a cardboard box, cutting holes and mounting speakers to it and baaaaaaam! You have an awesome soundind fiero with little or no modification! There is a lot of talent circulating around on the forum. Can one of you guys with the nice sounding system (house shakers or ear ringers that retain stock look) post pictures of your setup with material & steps? P.M.'s are okay too. Thanks

Raifalino
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ohio86se
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Report this Post12-21-2006 06:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ohio86seClick Here to visit ohio86se's HomePageClick Here to Email ohio86seSend a Private Message to ohio86seDirect Link to This Post
fierosound,

Will you be providing more detail on your upgrade? Im interested in improving my sound system but at the same time retaining the stock look. Will the "performance sound" slide control be utilized? How will the stock sub enclosure be used?

Thanks,

------------------

" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

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timgray
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Report this Post12-21-2006 07:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for timgrayClick Here to visit timgray's HomePageClick Here to Email timgraySend a Private Message to timgrayDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raifalino:

You guys make it sound so easy...like all it takes is geting a cardboard box, cutting holes and mounting speakers to it and baaaaaaam! You have an awesome soundind fiero with little or no modification! There is a lot of talent circulating around on the forum. Can one of you guys with the nice sounding system (house shakers or ear ringers that retain stock look) post pictures of your setup with material & steps? P.M.'s are okay too. Thanks

Raifalino


Problem is high end designs can't have steps posted. the box volume and design changes depending on the speaker you buy.. I can buy 2 of the same make and model and end up building a different sized cabinet for each speaker. the Vas,Qts and other theile parameters changes from speaker to speaker as they are built. I sit down with a 1 Liter enclosure and do tests on each driver to get the real parameters of the speaker and then design the box around those numbers.

I can only recommend books for you to get and any software to help you on your quest... Mostly dust off your calculus books and scientific calculator and start designing.... oh yeah a decent table-saw and some HDF (High density Fiberboard) is good to have as well. You can make really advanced enclosures with fiberglass as well if you take the time to stiffen them but they are incredibly more complex compared to a simple box to build right.

Some free software is at http://www.pitnet.com/caraudio/level2/software.html I highly recommend the bandbox program there if you apply isobaric design changes to the speaker parameters before you use the program it makes a incredibly small box design with lots of sound that is a good "middle of the road" kind of enclosure. IF you get fancy and take the volumes from the design you can redesign the box to easily fit behind a fiero seat if you use the right size drivers in the box. In fact the speakers sound better that way as you remove parallel surfaces and eliminate internal wave reflections.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 12-21-2006).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post12-21-2006 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ohio86se:

Will you be providing more detail on your upgrade? Im interested in improving my sound system but at the same time retaining the stock look. Will the "performance sound" slide control be utilized? How will the stock sub enclosure be used?



I won't have a "performance slider". I will set the gain on the amp when I setup the system's EQ settings. I've already tested the system with Dickman's subwoofer and need a sub that can handle more power. I'll be getting the same Parts Express speaker and install the setup as Bigfieroman decribed above.
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Bigfieroman
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Report this Post12-21-2006 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BigfieromanClick Here to visit Bigfieroman's HomePageClick Here to Email BigfieromanSend a Private Message to BigfieromanDirect Link to This Post
Just FYI, the above speaker worked great in the stock enclosure. I capped off the port to make a sealed box and put some stuffing in the box, and it sounds much better than the stock speakers I have heard, better than the Dickman sub, and better than the crappy midbass I had before it. It doesn't bottom out, it makes full use of the amp, and provides plenty of bass.

With the stock amp, some who are very particular about sound will be disappointed by the precision, it just is not up to that of a real sub/box/amp, but the volume is definately there. I love it, it was cheap, and it was easy!
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fierosound
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Report this Post12-21-2006 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
I see there's a brand new Xtant 1.1i mono-amp on eBay. It's not often you see one there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xtant-1-1i-Mono-amp_W0QQitemZ160065288044QQihZ006QQcategoryZ18797QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Report this Post12-21-2006 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for davegSend a Private Message to davegDirect Link to This Post
I have built a sub enclosure using sonotube, capped/plugged with MDF, made to match the volume of the 8" Polk speaker (.33 cuft). It fits under the dask on the passenger side, and is attached using exisiting attachment point - no hole were drilled in my car for this install. The amp is behind the passenger seat, and this thing sound great!

daveg
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post12-22-2006 01:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
you dont live in flint anymore
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ohio86se
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Report this Post01-01-2007 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ohio86seClick Here to visit ohio86se's HomePageClick Here to Email ohio86seSend a Private Message to ohio86seDirect Link to This Post
Any further updates?

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fierosound
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Report this Post01-22-2007 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
I'm kinda limited by the weather - unheated garage and it's winter LOL What I did this weekend.

Didn't like the Eclipse 4x10's and changed to something better. I wanted components.
The Infinity 50.7CS component set has a very high 94db efficiency rating.
http://www.onlinecarstereo....aspx?ProductID=15365

The Infinity 5-1/4" speaker has a very small efficient speaker (not a permanent
magnet). Works well with factory deck power. Plates were made from 3/16 hardboard.


Installed in the dash, they fit below the stock grills with good clearance.
Speaker template http://www.fiero.nl:80/foru...um2/HTML/080031.html



I purchased the same subwoofer mentioned by Bigfieroman from Parts Express
http://www.partsexpress.com...7&Partnumber=264-831

Here's a comparison of the Rodney's replacement sub to the larger Tang Band subwoofer


I made a mounting ring from 3/4" MFD. The edges were coated with silicone (to seal) before slipping
it in as attaching it through the sides with screws. Because the tube is tuned for the stock speaker,
remove it and cap the port - making it a sealed enclosure. Pre-drill the holes or the wood will split.


The subwoofer attaches to the front. I used the mounting ring and grill
from the Infinity speakers that I sanded and painted Satin Black.


Everything is in and sounds pretty good. Only real limitation is the GM CD player, but I want the factory look as much as possible.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-10-2007).]

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Bigfieroman
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Report this Post01-22-2007 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BigfieromanClick Here to visit Bigfieroman's HomePageClick Here to Email BigfieromanSend a Private Message to BigfieromanDirect Link to This Post
Fierosound, do you agree it sound better than the sub Rodney uses? I can't remember, are you using the stock sub amp?

Ohh, and btw, can I buy that other grill/ring? I don't have a grill on my sub and it gets kicked occasionally.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 01-22-2007).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post01-22-2007 02:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bigfieroman:

Fierosound, do you agree it sound better than the sub Rodney uses? I can't remember, are you using the stock sub amp?
Ohh, and btw, can I buy that other grill/ring? I don't have a grill on my sub and it gets kicked occasionally.



I'm using a 100 watt Xtant amp for the sub (see above) and the power caused the other sub to bottom very easily. I can adjust the amplifier's gain higher and get more punch without bottoming as often. PM me your address and I'll mail you the speaker grill.
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Bigfieroman
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Report this Post01-22-2007 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BigfieromanClick Here to visit Bigfieroman's HomePageClick Here to Email BigfieromanSend a Private Message to BigfieromanDirect Link to This Post
PM sent, Thanks!

It works very well with the stock amp, it uses almost all of the travel without bottoming...though I am sure it sounds better with a modern, clean amp. I am glad I could help you, I only wish there was a higher quality sub with the same specs.
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fierosound
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Report this Post01-22-2007 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

PM me your address and I'll mail you the speaker grill.


Bigfieroman - the speaker grill is on it's way. You're welcome.

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fierosound
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Report this Post01-25-2007 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bigfieroman:

Fierosound, do you agree it sounds better



It's sounding pretty good now! I discovered how bad the Delco radio tuner is - the sound quality is terrible! I was starting to think this whole setup was a waste until I connected my MP3 player. I ripped my MP3s at 256Kbps which is pretty close to original CD quality (320Kbps is better yet, but the files get REALLY big). Awesome sound playing MP3s through the system. Not as great as the setup in my GT, but still impressive for something that looks all stock. The MP3 is connected with a Peripheral Integrated Electronics (P.I.E.) GM9-AUX auxiliary input interface. This allows connection of any MP3 player through the CD Changer Aux. port on the back of the Delco player. There is also an iPod specific interface available from P.I.E.



I was experimenting with the settings on the Low Pass Crossover for the subwoofer. I tried it at 89Hz but found that 133Hz worked better, allowing the sub to produce more midbass. I installed Bass Blockers (capacitors) inline to all the speakers to cut the lower frequencies. When you have a subwoofer in your system, you usually want to decrease the amount of bass going to your mid-range speakers (tweeter will already be crossed-over). This will get you better mid-range sound and increase the power handling by rolling off the bass before it gets to your mid-range speakers.

To do this, you can use a "bass blocker" (high pass filter) a capacitor placed in series with the speaker input. It blocks the lower frequencies, and allows the higher frequencies to pass through. Bass blockers are installed in series, one end connected with the positive lead from your amplifier and the other end connected to the positive lead of each of your speakers. Bass blocker capacitors are available at any Radio Shack or parts supply house. You could also use an electronic crossover to filter the signal.



I used capacitors inline before the 2-way crossovers to the front speakers which block frequencies below 175Hz. This seems to be a good crossover point for the Infinity component set, although 200-250Hz may be better if you are using 4"x10" speakers. For the headrest speakers, I used caps which block frequencies below 250Hz. I installed these inline behind the radio rather than at the harness connecting to the seats. I don't have the seats in the car at present.

Values for 50 Volt non-polarized Bass Capacitors for 2/4/8 ohm speakers.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-04-2007).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post01-25-2007 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
Who else has replaced their stock headrest speakers with aftermarket 4ohm speakers??
Has anyone run into any problems?

I moved this to a new topic http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079932.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-25-2007).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post01-30-2007 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
^^^
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fierosound
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Report this Post02-02-2007 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
I see there's a complet factory sub system on eBay right now...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Report this Post02-02-2007 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SuufmeisterSend a Private Message to SuufmeisterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:





I'm wondering, will the xtant1.1 amp you are using fit in the stock amp location? It looks pretty small but of course I'm only seeing it in a picture. I too am very interested in this setup as I would like to improve sound quality but still maintain stock appearance. I'm also planning on ordering some 5-1/4" components. Are you happy with the Infinitys you are using? I was looking at some MB Quarts to replace the 4x10s in the dash - Thanks. Very nice work as usual.
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fierosound
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Report this Post02-02-2007 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
The amp is 6.5" x 5.8" x 1.6" in size (thick paperback?). I put the amp under the passenger seat so the heat sink isn't blocked. You could put it in the stock location I suppose, but not sure how cooling would be affected. The Infinity's sound pretty good, but I have MB Quarts in my GT which do sound better.
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Report this Post02-03-2007 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SuufmeisterSend a Private Message to SuufmeisterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

The amp is 6.5" x 5.8" x 1.6" in size (thick paperback?). I put the amp under the passenger seat so the heat sink isn't blocked. You could put it in the stock location I suppose, but not sure how cooling would be affected. The Infinity's sound pretty good, but I have MB Quarts in my GT which do sound better.


Thanks for the reply. I thought of the whole cooling issue right after I made that post. I suppose it's not a problem for the stock amp cause it's only like 30W? (I'm guessing). But a more powerful amp would probably not be very pleased in that location. Yeah I think I will end up going with the Quarts as well. I hear nothing but good things about them. I'll probably get an amp to run those as well. My head unit is ok, I have a JVC.... http://mobile.jvc.com/produ...409&pathId=58&page=1 . But not quite enough juice for the Quarts I think. This will make a good little springtime project. I see you used 4x6 components in the rear for your project. Are you happy with those or would you recommend using round 4" components, or maybe even another set of 5-1/4s? Hope you don't mind all the questions. That's what happens when you're The Man at something
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fierosound
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Report this Post02-03-2007 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Suufmeister:

I see you used 4x6 components in the rear for your project. Are you happy with those or would you recommend using round 4" components, or maybe even another set of 5-1/4s? Hope you don't mind all the questions. That's what happens when you're The Man at something


Your front stage is the sound that counts. The rear is rear fill only, so something like an Infinity Kappa 4"x6" plate is more than adequate and fit better than a coaxial would. This is because the speakers are off-center and there's more depth in the sail panel at the bottom.

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tjm4fun
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Report this Post02-07-2007 04:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funClick Here to Email tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
oh duh. I just re-read thru this thread, and was off looking at the speaker specs for that TB (on sale for 26$ now) then looking thru the rest, I happened to check the specs for the temp speaker I got (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-302) figured it was a throwaway til I had time to work on it more. looks like the enclosure size is actually too big for that speaker (0.13cu ft), especially with the port tube. for grins, gonna cap the port with the tube off, that should get it real close, and should stop the popping. was not thinking at all when I threw that one in, just annoyed that the original one broke the braided wire at the cone side, and that is not easy to fix, which is a shame cause it sounded and worked very nice with the aftermarket amp.
Moral of this post: if you;re gonna slap something in, at least LOOK at the specs, you may be surprised!
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Report this Post02-09-2007 02:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WhuffoClick Here to visit Whuffo's HomePageClick Here to Email WhuffoSend a Private Message to WhuffoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


It's sounding pretty good now! I discovered how bad the Delco radio tuner is - the sound quality is terrible! I was starting to think this whole setup was a waste until I connected my MP3 player. I ripped my MP3s at 256Kbps which is pretty close to original CD quality (320Kbps is better yet, but the files get REALLY big). Awesome sound playing MP3s through the system. Not as great as the setup in my GT, but still impressive for something that looks all stock. The MP3 is connected with a Peripheral Integrated Electronics (P.I.E.) GM9-AUX auxiliary input interface. This allows connection of any MP3 player through the CD Changer Aux. port on the back of the Delco player. There is also an iPod specific interface available from P.I.E.






Does that PIE adapter work with that radio? All the information I've been able to find on it indicates that it isn't compatible with this radio.
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fierosound
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Report this Post02-09-2007 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Whuffo:

Does that PIE adapter work with that radio? All the information I've been able to find on it indicates that it isn't compatible with this radio.


It works with THIS radio. I got it from http://replacementradios.co...h=23&products_id=227
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fierosound
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Report this Post02-14-2007 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
Lately, I've seen quite a few complete factory subwoofer systems on eBay. Just passing these along.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0080640429&rd=1&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0080553291&rd=1&rd=1

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Report this Post02-15-2007 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula OwnerSend a Private Message to Formula OwnerDirect Link to This Post
I, too, am looking to get some decent bass from my stock system. I did some searching and had decided that I probably need to go with a Fiero Store enclosure and a sub from Parts Express. Then I found these:

http://www.onlinecarstereo....aspx?ProductID=17062

With a claimed response down to 35Hz. If that's to be believed, they're better than all the subs listed in this thread. I somehow find that hard to believe. Can someone clear this up for me?
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