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MORE V6 POWER PLZ by FZero
Started on: 07-25-2006 12:21 AM
Replies: 38
Last post by: Fiero Brick on 07-31-2006 02:02 AM
FZero
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Report this Post07-25-2006 12:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FZeroSend a Private Message to FZeroDirect Link to This Post
hey every one just joined n so far im lovein this place. my question is im just a student right now and i just bought my long sought after 86 fiero gt automatic. what im asking u guys the fiero car gods if u could grace me with knowledge of getting more power out of it, which has the v6 as u all know. i thank u all for your response and only hope to make my fiero as good as the rest of yours thank you and amen.

[This message has been edited by FZero (edited 07-26-2006).]

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Report this Post07-25-2006 12:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stalen88GTSend a Private Message to stalen88GTDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the forum.

The long and short of it all is this. Port and polish intake. Get yourself a different cam. and use larger exhaust. OR better yet drop in a 1 SC3800 and forget all the other stuff. 260 hp out the gate 240 tq. what else could you ask for without having to do a whole bunch of little things to increase ponies. Or if you have the time and desire drop in the new Ls7.

I know you said you are a student, but you have really purchased a money pit and not something a student should be taking on at the moment unless your dad or mom love you A LOT. .

Although I am with you. I do not have the money either but I plug on anyway, so GOOD LUCK and we will see more of you on the forum.

Galen
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Report this Post07-25-2006 02:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroman22Send a Private Message to fieroman22Direct Link to This Post
if you dont wanna hard swap or much work (i know this is gonna bring debate)

drop a 3.4 from camaro, just need to drill new starter mount holes
lighter flywheel
port and polish
cam
valvetrain
trueleo intake
headers
exhaust
cold air intake

theres so much to do with this engine
almost everyone will tell you its just better to do a swap, and possibly cheaper
but for me i just dont go for swaps
(btw i have a 3.2 with all mods minus port and polish and higher comp ratio)
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tjm4fun
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Report this Post07-25-2006 06:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
Alot depends on how much you can do vs how much you need to have done for you.

to get any power out of the 2.8, you're gonna drop over 2k$ in parts, machine shop costs, and that's if you do all the work yourself. you'll want to put in bigger valves, port, polish, higher comp pistons, cam, headers, new or modded Y pipe, probably alot of intake work or something like a truleo manifold. alot of $$ for not a big increase.

A turbo setup for a good condition stock motor is going to runaround 2-3k$ depending on which one and how much you do.

Don;t waste your money on a hypertech chip, it just wastes gas.

the 3.4 as mentioned is probably the most cost effective (there should be alot of 3.4 f bodies available in junkyards,for a good price) but requires you doing alot of wrenching.

the 8 cylinder swaps are nice, but not for day to day use.

the 3800sc is probably the cheapest of the high performance 6 options, depending on the cost and availibilty in your area. But you need to have alot of fabrication skills for exhaust, mounts, wiring or it will cost you to have it done.
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fierochild
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Report this Post07-25-2006 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierochildSend a Private Message to fierochildDirect Link to This Post
It's all about money really. How much power do you want, How fancy a paint job do you want, interior, wheels tires. etc etc etc. The more that you can do the less it will cost, but a show quality powerhouse will cost a bundle.

Chuck
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Report this Post07-25-2006 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3800superfastSend a Private Message to 3800superfastDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the forum, More power out of the 2.8 gets kinda costly--as you may have heard--best bet is to move up to another engine--here`s a few places to look around to get some ideas. No certain order:
www.fastfieros.com
www.kitcarman.com
www.gmtuners.com
www.v8archie.com
www.fieroaddiction.com
www.thefierofactory.com
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post07-25-2006 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the forum. This is by far the fastest, cheapest way for big power increase. You will kick butt immediately.

------------------
Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

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James Bond 007
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Report this Post07-25-2006 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
I agree with everyone for the best bang for the buck go for the engine swap.For the stock motor, read here:
V6 power gains

A number of readers of this list have ask various questions about what they
can do to improve the performance of their V6 powered Fiero's. The following
was excerpted from "FIERO KITS-ALL FIRED UP!" by Herb Adams. Herb Adams has
raced a variety of Fieros over the years, and currently sells some of the
best suspension upgrade/racing parts for Fieros (see Peter's Fiero WEB page
for address and phone number). The article was published in the September
1991 issue of Kit Car. If you would like (and I find the time) I'll enter
the remainder of the article that covers tires, suspension and handling. (A
quick tease, Herb Adams on Fiero tires: The stock rear fenders have room for
Goodyear ZRS 255/50x16 tires on 16x9 wheels, although 255/50x16 on 16x8
wheels will also provide improvement.)

========================================================
ENGINE ENERGIZERS

Even the fuel-injected V6 Fiero provides only average acceleration and top
speed, so many Fiero owners want to know what they can do to increase their
engine's power level, As part of the racing program, I conducted a series of
power development tests to determine ways to improve the output of a Fiero
V6 engine. Racing applications were at the IMSA Firestone Firehawk Events,
which allow open exhausts, so most of the testing was done in this manner.
The performance improvements, then, should be proportional of those found on
a car with a street-legal exhaust.

Before I made any changes, the stock V6 engine was dyno-tested "as
installed" with the factory's exhaust, air inlet, and electronics management
systems. As indicated by the power curves and the dyno data sheet, the Fiero
V6 engine produced a peak corrected horsepower of 110 at 4500 rpm,
significantly lower than the advertised 125hp. The difference might be
accounted for by differences in dynos, but the important thing for the
evaluation was to establish a good baseline.

Blueprinting an engine refers to the practice of bringing all the internal
specs and tolerances up to those published in the MVMA book. The process is
simple, but time-consuming because the engine must be removed from the car
and completely disassembled, My race team machined the block to provide
.005-inches of piston fit and to produce the minimum deck height allowed. We
also decked the heads to provide minimum chamber size. The bearings were fit
to .0020 / .0025-inch, and all the rotating parts were precision balanced.
Head porting is not allowed, but a precision valve job was done to ensure
the best possible air flow through the heads. Out dyno testing showed that
the blueprinting work increased peak output 3 horsepower at 4500 rpm and 17
horsepower at 5500 rpm. Less friction and better breathing help at higher
engine speeds, so if you're interested in using more rpm, it would be worth
the effort. Note that the test on the blueprinted engine was done with the
stock intake and exhaust systems.

Open exhaust tests showed a six horsepower gain from 4500-5500 rpm. This
system replaced the stock muffler and converter with a six-foot long,
two-inch diameter straight pipe. Such a system is to noisy for the street,
but it does show potential with an improved street-legal system. The open
exhaust test was run with the stock exhaust manifolds and with the stock air
inlet system.

The next stage of engine development involved a high-lift camshaft. Most
stock engines will see a power increase with more valve lift. We needed to
keep the idle equally smooth and the emission levels the same as the stock
engine, so we didn't increase valve timing. With a higher lift cam, the
valves are opened faster as well as farther, but the opening and closing
point are the same as stock. A high-lift cam increased the power level by 15
horsepower at 5000 rpm and 14 horsepower at 5500 rpm.

The level of increase might be less on a car with a street legal exhaust,
but the effects should still be rewarding. Installing a new camshaft in a
Fiero with the V6 engine requires removing the engine, so some owners might
want to switch to 1.60 rocker arms instead. The performance improvement will
be slightly less, but the installation is easier.

Inspection of the Fiero exhaust manifolds showed some manufacturing related
problems that severely restricted flow of exhaust gases. The attached sketch
shows where the manufacturer left excess metal inside the manifolds. After
these edges were ground away, power increased eight horsepower at 5000 and
5500 rpm. You can eliminate these edges on your Fiero exhaust manifold with
a small die grinder.

FLANGE __x_________x__ Grinding off excess metal
|_______________| in the exhaust manifold
| | can result in a significant
| | power gain. (Problem is at
| \ points marked with x's)
\ \
__________________\xx xx\_______________________

-------------------------> Flow of exhaust Gases
______________________________________________________
COLLECTOR
FIERO V6 DYNO DATA CORRECTED HORSEPOWER
(read the RPM,then down)

(Approximated from chart) 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 RPM's

Ported Exhaust manifolds 109HP 124HP 135HP 143HP 139 HP

Installed High-lift cam 103HP 117HP 126HP 135HP 132 HP

Blueprinted Engine w/Open Exhaust 99HP 112HP 120HP 119HP 118 HP

Blueprinted Engine w/Stock Exhaust 96HP 108HP 113HP 113HP 111 HP

Pure Stock Engine w/Stock Exhaust 94HP 107HP 110HP 107HP 94 HP
WHAT YOU SHOULD LEAVE ALONE

In searching for more power, my race crew tested the Fiero V6 engine on the
dyno without the stock air cleaner and inlet system, and we were surprised
to find that this produced no change in power. Apparently, the Pontiac
engineers did a good job on these parts because they work well, even though
they look restrictive.

Another alteration that made little or no difference was cam timing.
Advancing or retarding both the stock and high-lift cam resulted in power
level changes of only one horsepower, more at some rpms and less at others.
This shows that both cams are optimized at their normal position

Testing various PROM (Programmable Read-Only Memory) computer chips in the
electronic engine management system also showed that the Pontiac engineers
did their job well. Different PROMS with various fuel/air ratios and timing
curves showed no power improvement. We did choose a PROM with less full
throttle enrichment at high rpm to help our fuel economy during the
endurance races. This change gave us about five minutes more racing on a
tank of fuel, so we used it for many events. The last race was run at night.
The weather was cool so the air was dense. After about an hour of racing, we
burned a piston from being too
lean. We weren't too happy, but it showed again that the factory electronic
engineers usually know what's best for the average customer.

Owners of Fiero-based kit cars can make a number of performance improvements
with a relatively small investment of time and money. Using any of all the
above modifications will substantially improve speed and handling. Like most
things, though, the results will be proportional to how much effort and
money you choose to invest.

================================================================================================================
More info can be found at this link but it's for a truck,the info can easily be adapted to a Fiero.
http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/60degreeV6/index.htm

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joeformula88
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Report this Post07-25-2006 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joeformula88Click Here to visit joeformula88's HomePageSend a Private Message to joeformula88Direct Link to This Post
check:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/075282.html
good luck making up your mind!
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lou_dias
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Report this Post07-25-2006 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasDirect Link to This Post
Glad to see you are a Nintendo fan too.

Welcome.

As for power...please define where you want it and how much of it and we can tell you how much it will cost you.
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goatnipples2002
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Report this Post07-25-2006 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
1. try a 3.1 from, a lumina APV. They are very cheap...very easy to install and the CHEAPEST swap there is.

2. nitrous is by far my best mod as far as power goes.

3. Buy a manual fiero

Just to let you know most things to go fast are not going to be cheap. good luck and welcome to the addiction.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 07-25-2006).]

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Francis T
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Report this Post07-26-2006 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
If you have a decent 2.8, we (trueleo.com) are going to give real nice discounts if you buy our intake and new headers/Y pipe at the same time and it comes with a chip. Bolt it all on in a day, two at most. It will make a huge difference in proformence without hurting gas millage, should make it even better. The setup will give you lots more power and it will be availabe up to and over 6K
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Report this Post07-26-2006 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for squisher86SESend a Private Message to squisher86SEDirect Link to This Post
FZERO: The Trueleo seems to make excellent gains on our cars. I'm just waiting for their header setup to buy mine all at once

Oh, and Francis T:

You really ought to hurry up with that, I've got money waiting for ya I'm a willing guinea pig also :hint: :hint:
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Delphince
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Report this Post07-26-2006 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DelphinceSend a Private Message to DelphinceDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroman22:

if you dont wanna hard swap or much work (i know this is gonna bring debate)

drop a 3.4 from camaro, just need to drill new starter mount holes


While I've enjoyed and gotten used to the 2.8s, I've been thoughtful about the idea of getting into a 3.4. I plan on a fully custom project car when I have the time, money, and space to get started on such a quarter-life crisis, so I haven't been interested too much in putting a large engine in my car; also because I don't want more weight in the back than is already there. All that aside, the 3.4 doesn't seem like too much of a sacriligious change from stock, so what is involved in installing one over an existing 2.8 setup? Are there any major wiring, mechanical, or ECU changes that are involved?
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Francis T
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Report this Post07-26-2006 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
We are working had on them
9the headers). Got set back a few days because we dont have my 87 GT here to put the prototype headers on, but it should be here Sunday. Once we confirm the in-car fit and that we dont have to change anything we'll post pictures and price. BTW: and I'm saying this because we sell them, but if you look at the labor and cost of doing a 3.1 pushrod engine swap instead of just changing over to our intake, headers/Y pipe and chip, the swap just dont make sense. Especially when you consider that the 3.1 pushrod engine will hit the same wall as a 2.8 and worse because of the stock intake. In fact the stock intake is even worse on that engine. So when you're all done with your swap, you still have engine that wants to quit at 4.500 rpm, and that's lame for a sports car. If you want to know if the headers are worth the wait (a week probably), ask Raydar. He's seen them, but cant put any pictures up yet.
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Scurvy
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Report this Post07-26-2006 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ScurvySend a Private Message to ScurvyDirect Link to This Post
I've been meaning to ask this for a while about Trueleo. I assume all the parts are interchangeable between the 2.8 and the 3.4 block? It would seem to make sense but I just want verification before dropping the dough knowing one day I'll put a 3.4 in.
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jeffndebrus
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Report this Post07-27-2006 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffndebrusSend a Private Message to jeffndebrusDirect Link to This Post
Here's my vote for a 4.9 Cadillac swap. Stock=200hp and 275ftlbs tq
which is a huge improvement over the stock v-6-125hp
and it weighs 6lbs more thanks to an aluminum block.

------------------
Proud Member of the North Florida Fiero club

4T60E Parks harness/ Rockcrawl chip-- more to come--

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Francis T
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Report this Post07-27-2006 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
Yes the intake and headers will fit either engine and we probably sell as many to the 3.4 guys as we do the 2.8
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fullcircle
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Report this Post07-27-2006 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fullcircleSend a Private Message to fullcircleDirect Link to This Post
Francis,

Other than the gasket set do you need anything else other than your intake kit. Does it come with a new computer chip?

Thanks.
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Report this Post07-27-2006 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
fullcircle: you need the gasket set, a vacum line T and replace your plastic vacuum lines with rubber ones. That last thing is a good idea even for those using the stock intake, as they really tend to break a lot. Yopur PCV will be moved to the right side of our intake which means you need to cut the hose. none of this takes anything to do and the end result will look nice and clean. BTW: our first intakes used the stock lines for everything but our customers asked us to make a cleaqner lookign setup than stock and we did.
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Report this Post07-27-2006 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fullcircleSend a Private Message to fullcircleDirect Link to This Post
and the computer chip remains stock?
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Report this Post07-27-2006 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fullcircleSend a Private Message to fullcircleDirect Link to This Post
and the computer chip remains stock?
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Francis T
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Report this Post07-27-2006 04:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
No, we provide a new chip. Just let us know about any other mods to the engine, like higher comp piston, cam etc.
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Report this Post07-27-2006 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fullcircleSend a Private Message to fullcircleDirect Link to This Post
Ok thanks, car is bone stock otherwise, I am hoping this is a winter project. What is the lead time you need now to make one?
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DEMONCHILD
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Report this Post07-27-2006 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DEMONCHILDSend a Private Message to DEMONCHILDDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Welcome to the forum. This is by far the fastest, cheapest way for big power increase. You will kick butt immediately.





isnt that bad for a stock engine?
if not then to hell with it im going nos too
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Report this Post07-27-2006 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
from time of order, turn around time is anywhere from a week to three, depending on how many orders we have. Now with our headers comming out anyday now and so many folks wanting them, our lead time be a but longer, have to see.
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Report this Post07-28-2006 02:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EclipseSend a Private Message to EclipseDirect Link to This Post
Perhaps I missed it, but how about a Power Pulley (black pulley in the pic below). It's smaller than stock and takes less torque to turn. I'm porting the exhaust manifolds and the collector in the Y-pipe as well. Mating it with a 5-speed Isuzu tranny.




------------------
Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association
Yellow 85 Notchback(A.K.A. GodFearN)

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited 07-28-2006).]

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3800superfast
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Report this Post07-28-2006 02:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3800superfastSend a Private Message to 3800superfastDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Delphince: All that aside, the 3.4 doesn't seem like too much of a sacriligious change from stock, so what is involved in installing one over an existing 2.8 setup? Are there any major wiring, mechanical, or ECU changes that are involved?

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/041835.html

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3800superfast
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Report this Post07-28-2006 02:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3800superfastSend a Private Message to 3800superfastDirect Link to This Post

3800superfast

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Member since Apr 2004
Eclipse, Nice looking set-up , you are correct--we have over looked the power pulley..
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schumi
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Report this Post07-28-2006 07:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for schumiSend a Private Message to schumiDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:

1. try a 3.1 from, a lumina APV. They are very cheap...very easy to install and the CHEAPEST swap there is.

2. nitrous is by far my best mod as far as power goes.

3. Buy a manual fiero

Just to let you know most things to go fast are not going to be cheap. good luck and welcome to the addiction.




Is Buick 3.1 the same engine as the Lumina APV?

[This message has been edited by schumi (edited 07-28-2006).]

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Eclipse
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Report this Post07-28-2006 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EclipseSend a Private Message to EclipseDirect Link to This Post
Thanks! Also a cone filter routed into the wheel well will help. I know some will dispute that the engineers did a great job on the fiero breater system, but removing the restrictions caused by the water seperator box in the quarter panel increased my throttle response, even on the Duke!. Here's the heat shielded Ractive filter I am going to be using. It's short mounted for now, but will use a crx tube once it goes into the car...


------------------
Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association
Yellow 85 Notchback(A.K.A. GodFearN)

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Report this Post07-28-2006 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasDirect Link to This Post
That Ractive filter is sweet. Where did you get it?
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Report this Post07-28-2006 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MisterSend a Private Message to MisterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eclipse:





Hey Jay, It's a little off topic, but If your Fiero is yellow what made you decide on black valve covers and blue upper plenum?

Thanks.

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Report this Post07-28-2006 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EclipseSend a Private Message to EclipseDirect Link to This Post
lol... I was waiting for someone to ask that. I started painting it blue before the opportunity arose for me to paint the car and I really wasn't thinking that far ahead. Recommend a change do you? It was black to begine with.

PM me if you like to keep things on topic.

As for where I got the filter, it was given to me by Under8ted. I don't know where he got it.

Here's a listing...
http://www.customstreetdesigns.com/precision319.htm


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Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association
Yellow 85 Notchback(A.K.A. GodFearN)

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited 07-28-2006).]

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fullcircle
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Report this Post07-28-2006 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fullcircleSend a Private Message to fullcircleDirect Link to This Post
i say leave it, everyone worries too much about coordiantion, go for the rainbow look.
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lou_dias
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Report this Post07-28-2006 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the link.

BTW, the biggest bang for buck is the exhaust manifold mods and cross-over mod.

Look in your exhaust manifolds, you'll see extra casting in 2 of the 3 ports. Good for 8 hp on a dyno. Also, have your crossover cut where the 2 become 1 and remove the HUGE restriction there, then reweld it back on. A machine shop charged me $75 for this. You stand to gain about 25 hp in total.
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goatnipples2002
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Report this Post07-30-2006 06:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageSend a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
Most buick motors have different tranny bolt patterns than the chevys...but i am not sure about the buick 3.1
The ractive filters don't like the high heat of a fiero the glue will fail...other than that they are great.
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DEMONCHILD
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Report this Post07-31-2006 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DEMONCHILDSend a Private Message to DEMONCHILDDirect Link to This Post
has ne one heard of the little chip that wen u pug in u gain 20+ hp?
i bought one an ill be damned it worked..ive noticed better take off mor torque an little faster top speed
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Fiero Brick
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Report this Post07-31-2006 02:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero BrickSend a Private Message to Fiero BrickDirect Link to This Post
Those chips don't do ANYTHING for performance in a Fiero unless you've modified the engine or something is wrong with your fuel system. Normally they just cause the car to run rich and/or mess up the very very good stock tuning. If you have modified your Fiero, you would get better gains and fuel mileage by dyno tuning the car instead of simply plugging in one of those "chips." If there's something wrong with your fiero, you'd get better gains and mileage by actually fixing the problem than using one of those "chips" to compensate.

Overall, mass-produced chips not tailored for your individual car = bad, mmmkay?
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