Engine 2.8 uses no oil, yet the exhaust pipes are black and getting up on rear bumper, smells rich at idle which is a little high, 1500 rpm and may return to normal if left idling for 5 minutes or so, no error codes, and to best of knowledge no vaccum leaks, with air on and in gear rpms normal, but out of gear rpm is a little high. Best city mpg is 15 and best on freeway approx. 19. I believe I read somewhere you are not to change the idle setting, and I think the problem may be with the timing, do not have timing light, previous Fiero's got better gas mileage, to be stock this one runs great. A little slow turning over when starting, originally thought may be weak battery until leaving lights on and still started, would be willing to change timing but don't know which way to turn clockwise or counterclockwise looking from rear. All new sensors.

quote Originally posted by ButchM: Engine 2.8 uses no oil, yet the exhaust pipes are black and getting up on rear bumper, smells rich at idle which is a little high, 1500 rpm and may return to normal if left idling for 5 minutes or so, no error codes, and to best of knowledge no vaccum leaks, with air on and in gear rpms normal, but out of gear rpm is a little high. Best city mpg is 15 and best on freeway approx. 19. I believe I read somewhere you are not to change the idle setting, and I think the problem may be with the timing, do not have timing light, previous Fiero's got better gas mileage, to be stock this one runs great. A little slow turning over when starting, originally thought may be weak battery until leaving lights on and still started, would be willing to change timing but don't know which way to turn clockwise or counterclockwise looking from rear. All new sensors.

Welcome to the forum, That really sounds like you need a new 02 sensor, running rich & bad gas mileage. could be map , coolant temp sender to ecm. No don`t fool with the stop idle screw, take my word on that one---you could check to see if someone else has. On cold start , it will idle around 1500rpms--depending on wheather condtions , ect , it can take 5 minutes (in my case more) for the idle to come down or around 950rpms. On the timing you need to ground the aldl connector a & b after the engine is warm, you`ll need a timing light, setting by feel is not the best way to go about this. In either case to answer your question, if the timing is lower than 10degrees from TDC , rotate the distibutor counter clock wise, if higher rotate clock wise.

Are you saying you don't believe it is the timing, have new oem 02 sensor, less than one month old. Not for sure on ecm temp sensor, I know that the temperature stays around 160-180 even on a hot day. Have notice one thing lately, Fan motor will be on from cold start sometimes, cut engine off, then restart and it is off. On a cold start rpms will be around 2100, let run for a minute or two and tap accelator and will begin to drop.

I come to this forum due to the knowledge that everyone has, and my days were from the old muscle car days. I know nothing about how all of these things work in new cars and have not been very successful with mechanics in this area, only very large charges, have spent well over $6,000 in repairs since Jan. 2006, I do have the nices looking Fiero I have seen on the road.

It is just little things I am trying to fix now.

I value all the information you can provide, and it is much cheaper for me to purchase new parts and install them myself than to pay a $600. Service charge and still have a problem.

ButchM, Ok the fan kicking on at start of engine is probally a bad fan/rad switch. Located on top of lower intake right in front --but to the left a little of your thermo neck, with a single green/wht stripe wire. The coolant temp switch is located right above the water pump-- with a 2 wire lead, should be one black wire & one yellow wire. If you take off the black connector for the fan/rad switch--run a ground out of it to a good ground in the engine bay area, it should kick the fan on, but in either case, it coming on & off like that is saying that that fan/rad switch or connection there is probally bad. Another thing that is coming to mind for the idle issue, is you being able to just tap the gas pedal and it goes down, at first this would lead me to believe the cable is binding, also did you clean out the iac passage when you installed the new iac sensor? The coolant temp sensor can cause some of the problems your having--as it plays a role in the fuel air mix . Also if it hasn`t been timed , by grounding the aldl a & b , it will be 30 degrees off . Did you use this method? We had another forum member a week or so ago , that had replaced a new 02 sensor, but still had problems, I suggested to him to take a look at the sensor or run it up & down the road for a while--as sometimes if its smoking or burning oil, ect , it will land right on the 02 sensor & cause erratic driveability problems. Or the wire leading to it may have been cooked a little due to heat down there. I know what you mean about the Muscle car days, still have a shop rod, had to learn computer driven cars , fought it for years, but like you mention, I didn`t like paying out large service bills. Hope this helps some, if you have anymore questions, post away ... There are alot of really nice knowledgable folks on the forum , feel free to pm me or repost until we get your problem under control. Theres also a search box at the top of every page, you can read through the archives--spent alot of hours in there my-self.

3800Superfast, I do think the trottle cable binds a little every now and then, have added WD40, Sometimes at a red light there is a little added pressure you must give to move beyond a certain position. (Someone had modafied how it attached ) Am trying very hard to get everything back to factory. I am going to order all sensors I cannot find I have purchased within the last couple of months, would love to put some photos on here for you to see, but don't know how. Have digital camera and could do immediately. Wish to put all things back to factory before preceeding with sometype turbo and/or engine change. This is my toy.

Also, I have a 2007 Camry SE that has all headlights and emblems off in the garage that I will be wrapping to look like a Nascar tomorrow. Have about all panels printed and would like to get some feedback before delivery. Car is for a show and probably be sold after the show with the wrap on it.

I have heard about the pins on the fan switch corodeing.Sounds like something is causeing the car to run cool,preventing the car from idleing down.Have you tried pulling the codes?Some posobilites are,yea the fan switch (see pic below)thirmistat stuck open.Fan wired to run continueously.Vacume leak.IAC idle air controll valve.O2 sensor or Map.I have adjusted the timeing by ear and the car still passed smog (it's probubly not that unless you messed wtih the timeing by pulling the distributor).I would start by pulling the codes,is the engine light on?

[This message has been edited by James Bond 007 (edited 07-04-2006).]

No engine Light, No codes, just seems to run rich. Fan does not always come on at start, Today it didn't come on when cold, but have noticed every now and then it will be on when starting cold. Going to check contacts, that makes sense. Tail pipes getting black along with bumper, has not used any oil in 2500 + miles.
Thottle (cuise control looks as though it has been modified.) Have moved to a PC so I could put up pic, Mac won't let me. Well, I downloaded the Image poster and installed, but can't figure out how to operate.

ButchM, I hate to ask you this , since you went through all the trouble with the image poster, which I can`t even figure out, is there anyway to make that pic larger? If the forum image poster won`t allow, do what I do and use http://www.photobucket.com/ after we get a look at that,we can move on to why its running rich, if you could list all the work done to it recently along with what sensors where replaced that would help out quite a bit.

A few facts:
Purchased car in Jan 2006, Price $450.00
Took to Pontiac Dealer, refused to work on car
Jan 2006, Rebuilt Transmission at Amoco Transmission Price $18653.26
Purchased from Fiero Store, New fuel pump, Spark plug wires, Module, Dist. Cap, rotary button, misc connectors Quarter Windows, Deck release sw, power mirror switch and plate, power window switches, Floor Mats, Lug nut covers, seat side cover plates. have spend approx $1100, there
Purchased new oil sending unit $59.00 at Napa, New brakes, New water pump
New EGR Solineod $125.00
New leather seats from Mr. Mikes $700.00, New Head liner and Sunvisors, $150.00
New dog bone
Took to Toyota dealership, fixed air, new 02 sensor, new egr value to solve engine light, they also replace the module which was bad even though it was new, would just stop on you, then it would start again. Oil change, filter, grease $1300.00
Had steering column tighten up was very loose in car. $175.00
New 225/15 tires $545.00
Purchased used factory steering wheel to replace cheap after market one.
Returned to Toyota for engine light problem, they replaced some more sensors. $380.00
Engine light came back on, returned to Toyota replaced more sensors.
Engine light came back on, tried the Fiero Forum, got an excellent description of the egr system with diagram, worked on egr solinoid myself, solved problem, but purchased new one anyway.
Car runs strong, just seems to run rich and idle a little high, high idel is only when in neutral
I am almost positive there are on vaccum leaks
Currently no engine codes
Radio comes and goes, have had apart at least 9 times, know where problem is but I can't seem to fix it. It acts like a cold solder connection. This sounds crazy, but you can mash on top of case and it will play correctly, take pressure off and will lose channel, tape works all the time, as well as clock, etc. Have decide to purchase Pontiac Am/FM/CD from a link at this forum that is a replacement.

Now I will try for larger pictures, that one was small due to Pip tating only 1000 bytes max
That didn't work so I'm going to load the pictures on my site and link back





Thanks

Ok good pics, someone did fool with the cruise at the top of the t.b. --looks like the throttle cable is ok, but what ever they have at the top of the cruise to hold it , could cause some binding. The tps is not brand new--as it has about the same amount of corrosion as the t.b. does on the lever arm, the iac doesn`t look brand new --hard to tell though--depends on how they may have installed it. What codes where being pulled when you took it to the dealership? It says sensors 380.00 , but not which ones. I`m still thinking 02 sensor --even though its new , could be causing part of the rich condition, could be the map sensor and other things . Looks like someone may have taken off the stop idle screw cap, theres a slot for a regular screw driver showing in the pic. Maybe a better way to nail this down is with winaldl, that way your not throwing parts & money at it. A couple of threads.
http://winaldl.joby.se/
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010924-2-010129.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010924-2-010216.html

3800Superfast, thanks very much. I will purchase a new 02 sensor and any of the other sensors that I can't find receipts for. Much cheaper than service charge. Secondly, I need to learn as many things as I can about the Fiero. I really want to go all out with this. Wish I could get hp to around 300 + and keep same look. My email address is butch@designoutput.com, web address: http://www.designoutput.com. Currently wrapping new 2007 Camry SE to look like a Nascar, however I'm sure this forum was not intended for that purpose, but would send pictures via email or my web address.

Tried to give you a good rating, but don't have enough posts.

Will let you know how it comes out, Oh, the codes before I think was a code 32

ButchM, 32 is
Code 32
EGR Vacuum Control
Code 32 is by far the most commonly encountered trouble code. The most common cause for this trouble code is a leak in the EGR vacuum lines. This code is often disregarded since a malfunctioning EGR system seldomly has any effect on the car's driveability, and only on the engine's emissions. It's also tremendously difficult to diagnose the problem. If your car passes emission tests and is otherwise running ok, it's often not worth the trouble trying to find the problem.
I think they allready fixed that for you--but you may want to double check your reciepts. Do you have a laptop ? Would you like to learn winaldl? Like mentioned above, you can pin point the trouble down with the program (which is free) and a cable www.aldlcable.com or you can build one for a couple bucks, also strat110 sells them here on the forum, that way you won`t need to go to dealerships or install sensors/parts /ect that aren`t needed. Heres the page for your codes.
https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes

3800Superfast, I have been wanting to purchase some diagnostic software for some time. Have PC's, but not laptop PC, have Powerbook G4 (mac), To purchase new G5 powerbook with intel chip in very near future, which runs both PC and Mac Software (wanting on apple to work out all bugs and release non beta software), problem area is that all new computers have USB, and Firewire, was hoping industry would soon upgrade their serial cables to USB, Adapters work with some things and not others, very, very knowledgeable with computers.
To answer your question, I do plan to purchase connector and software, just haven't done so.

Trying to get everything to OEM before preceeding with the tihings I would like to do, Also, I need to learn much more about how things work. This forum has been excellent. Some things I have accepted as making good sense, at times I have found some things not to fit my suituation. It appears that many Fiero owners have had a problem with their vehicles running rich as well. I also, have a believe with almost 25 year old parts, it is time to replace, if they haven't failed, as you add new, the old ones will fail. Have purchased new modular for distr. that was bad, which really made me go nuts.

Needless to say my 87 GT is in excellent shape, just working out the very minor problems, if I was to drive it on a trip I would like it to be depenable.

Again, thanks to everyone on this forum, maybe one day I will be able to give some things back to the forum.