Was about to put on new rotors/calipers this week and was thinking about putting a coat of VHT brake caliper/drum/rotor paint on the side that will be visible.
Couldn't find much on the process here on the forum but did notice several comments that stated the part of the rotor that the pad will make contact with should NOT be painted.

Will paint on the contact surface really cause a problem? I would think it may take a few hard braking cycles to burn/rub it off but how would it actually "gum" up the pads? Would the paint itself be enough to put a coating on the pads that would be impervious to the effects of hard braking?

Just looking to keep from going through the process of making a template from the old rotors to mask the area if it's not really neccessary.
Has anyone actually seen bad side effects from coating an entire rotor (with the exeption of the actual bearing area of coarse)?
If brake pads and rotors actually wear, then I'm confused as to why the paint won't wear off or would cause disastrous problems with pads?

Me not understand, help me understand.

The paint won't just wear off it will melt! Then It will gum up everything. While it is doing that you wont be able to brake and will probably have an accident. The insurance won't pay a penny. You or probably someone else will be hurt or killed.
I hope you now change your mind.

It wont kill them, but its best to avoid it if possible. Whats going to happen is the paint is going to melt into the pockets and cracks in the pad material resulting in poorer brake performance and possibly faster wear. They will still work, they wont work too great until the majority of the paint is worn off, a few hard stops should take care of that, but once its gone that extra paint that is on the pads will minorly reduce performace for a while until its gone.

What I did when I painted my rotors was just take strips of straight paper and masking tape and mask off the general area. Doesnt have to be super precise, a little around the edges wont hurt as much, but for 5 minutes a rotor, its well worth the time, since you shouldnt be painting the back of the rotor anyway, as no one will see it, and that would have problems if you did it on the hat style like the rear. As far as the outside edges of the rotors, I guess you could, but being so small and hard to see I dont see any point.

In fact if these are going on stock rims I wouldnt even bother, you'd barely be able to see them if you tried, but I dont know what setup you are running.

quote Originally posted by Fiero1Fan: The paint won't just wear off it will melt! Then It will gum up everything. While it is doing that you wont be able to brake and will probably have an accident. The insurance won't pay a penny. You or probably someone else will be hurt or killed. I hope you now change your mind.

This is basically what I have heard but have not found an actual case of it happening, do you know of an actual case of brake failure. Some Drums actually come with the friction surface painted to protect from rust during storage and I have never seen instructions to remove the paint before installing (just that initial bad smell). Also been searching on the subject for the past two hours on the net (could have made templates by now! LOL) and keep finding mixed opinions but no one that I have found who has painted the friction surface has reported any problems (could be they were to emabarrased to talk about it!) and no one has cited an actual case of failure or damage.

At this point I may just go with bare rotors and save the time and energy of trying to make them pretty.

Still would like to hear some actual bad experiences with painting the friction surface just to know once and for all the effects. So far all I can find is people who have had no problem.

Just seems that if paint can cause that much of a problem then road tar would be a real killer!

If you're worried about it, you can roughly mask off the friction surface. A little bit of overspray (since its hard to mask a circle!) won't hurt anything. Alternatively, run your old pads until the paint is worn off, and then put on the new ones.

After I painted my rotors, I took them to the nearest tires plus and had them resurfaced. That way I have a good clean look in teh center (non friction surface) and still have the proper stopping power. I used caliper paint (spray type) and it has heald up fine for more than a few years and many miles. THe key is to PREP, PREP, PREP the surface to be painted..02

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: As far s the outside edges of the rotors, I guess you could, but being so small and hard to see I dont see any point.

That's the most obvious part when they start rusting..

Just to give an idea of what will be visable with the stock wheel.



The poly is installed, balljoints, st springs, etc. The brakes, mounting tires, sway bar, and steering dampner are about all thats left to do on the front.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 05-29-2006).]

The best idea is to paint the whole thing, then have the braking surface turned. NEVER get a foreign substance on the machined surface. Even fingerprints affect performance. If your determined, check with some brake specialists about maybe ceramic coating, although I still wouldnt even do that.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: NEVER get a foreign substance on the machined surface. Even fingerprints affect performance.

Are you saying to get anything on the surface before painting, kinda common sense.

Or are you saying on the rotor/pad contact surface as it will affect braking performance. I find it extremely hard to believe, since these are not sealed units, that there will be no foreign substances making contact. They are constantly re-paving roads around here, trucks are always spilling paint and other crap off the back, not to mention sand/clay/gravel/oil/etc.I would assume these surfaces were designed to handle the elements along with whatever else one might encounter in driving on public roads.

I'm thinking you meant on surfaces to be painted/coated, I usually use the acetone wipedown as the last step before coating any surface.

Still looking for some documented horror story or definative evidence that it is safe to get paint on the friction surface. This is almost like the "they burst in to flames" statement but with even less documentation!

We probably all have better things to do than talk about this but my curiosity is peaked!!!!

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: What I did when I painted my rotors was just take strips of straight paper and masking tape and mask off the general area.

I did the same, except that I painted the inside of the rotor hat, too (to control rust) ... but that's just me. Here is the result:



Note that I also painted just the caliper bridge, not the entire caliper, since that is all you can see. Incidentally, I used VHT brand high-temperature brake paint, applied and cured per VHT's instructions, and it's still there 3 years later. (I had the front wheels off earlier today.)

Who knows for sure whether or not you would have a problem painting the entire rotor surface? It would probably depend on the specific paint you used, how much you applied, how you cured it before driving, etc. But you would be a test pilot! Your brakes are not something you want to blindly experiment with. My advice: Paint the rotor hat if you want, but leave the friction surface clear.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-30-2006).]

These days... The coating used to prevent rust on the friction surface is to be removed and washes off with soap and water. I clean them in the kitchen sink using liquid dish soap. (This stuff is usually coating the whole rotor/drum)

Any paint there for anti rust on the shelf I have never seen. One would think it is very thin and chosen to not contaminate the pads/shoes.

Anything you may spray on them should be removed from the friction surfaces. Paint may not kill the brakes but can glaze the pads. Glazed pads can wear unevenly and have noise problems.

I do not recomend painting and turning Unless you need turning anyway. Never turn a rotor that doesn't need it. You'll shorten the life of the rotors quite a bit each time you do that.

Even the lightest cut will create a spiral finish that can among other thing accelerate pad wear and make noise until it wears off. This is why new rotors and properly prepaired cuts have a Non Directional Finish. Rotors with a NDF bed the pads in much faster than simple cutting.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurasic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

OK, I'm still looking for info searching the net and if I beleive everything I'm finding then painting the center of the rotor will cause pre-mature wheel stud failure!

I'm finding so many conflicting opinions it's not funny, but no one seems to be able to site actual experience with problems, it all seems to be opinions. There are quite a few who have painted the whole thing and claim to have no problems, it seems if they were going to experience problems it would be in the initial usage, only bad side effect I can find reported is temporary smell of the paint being worn off of the friction surface.

Well I'm not guessing.... I've been doing this crap for over 20 years.

Anything that contaminates the friction material can cause glazing among other problems. Anyone that says that can't happen is either lucky or fairly incompetant. How bad and just what problems depends on the kind of contamination and the formula of friction material. Glazing is usually less of a problem with semi metalic pad materials but can still happen.

Painting the hub shouldn't matter. The hub won't get all that hot in normal operation, especially with a large Al heatsink bolted to it. The only way you could make lugs fail is to either have them loose, or over torque them. Both of which are alarmingly common.

Once you do paint or powder coat a hub, recheck lug torque after driving a few miles. The thickness, and sometimes lubricant properties, of the paint/coating can slightly loosen the bolts/nuts.

Also remember that new wheels are coated and need to be rechecked after installation as well. Many people install new wheels at the same time as messing with rotors. They fail to check the lugs. The lugs come loose. They blame the paint job.

sorry if this sounds harsh, but you just don;t seem to get one thing:
you don;t screw with braking systems. you NEVER paint contact surfaces. As The ogre pointed out, even machining a rotor should be done carefully. any grease you get on the rotors affect the performance of brakes. read any service manual, they clearly state that the rotors are to be kept free from all contaminations during assembly.

Paint? the hats are fine. the contact surfaces never. honestly, it will take all of 2 minutes to mask them off.
wheel stud failure? from paint? I don;t think so. what else did they do ? (most likely that ran a 3" over stock offset on a stock car hub and stressed the whole assembly, then blamed the paint.)

go to your local library and read up on brake systems. forget the crap you read on the internet, especially on most of those tuner sites. they have complete disregard for the proper engineering that goes into car mechanicals, and decide they know what any given system can do. Follow alot of what they put out there, and get in a serious accident and have your car impounded for safety checks, and you;ll be screwed, blued and tattoed. Most modifications are illegal for street cars, and if they can be constiuted to have contributed to the accident, and you did it, you are them criminally responsible. Unless the modification has a DOT or equivalent approval, it is illegal. for example: putting corvette brakes on your car is illegal. it is not a tested and approved upgrade. those bumpsteer kits: illegal. the aftermarket front end replacments: illegal. most times it will never matter, but if someone gets seriously injured, the owner is the one who pays.

I just want you to realize that there are consequences and reasons. if it were possible to pint them , they;d come painted. they don;t so you don't. it's that simple. Be safe. Live long. and enjoy it.

Allright guys, I'll most likely leave them naked as I posted earlier. I am familiar with braking systems and have averaged at least one complete brake system overhaul per year for the past 27 years (first one was a 72 Datsun 510). I was just curious as to any actual documented problems as in Joe Blow painted his rotors and then ran over a bunch of kids at the school crossing because he could not stop his car. I definately don't want to be the test subject that proves whether it is detrimental or not (I realize that as far as most are concerned there is no need to test).

When installing calipers/pads on rotors, or cylinders/shoes on drums for that matter, I have always tried to keep the parts as free of any oil or grease as is humanly possible. Taking care to lubricate the sliders/pivot points, etc, with brake grease while wiping all contact surfaces with a solvent such as acetone. I always try to do as thorough a flush of the system as I can, checking all lines/connections after bleeding is complete. Brakes are usually the first thing I service on any used vehicle I purchase, what good is it if it can go but not stop!
I still am a little skeptical as to the idea that the braking surface must be pristine/clean for proper function, it is just impractical if not impossible to drive a vehicle on a daily basis on public roads and not expect any type of contaminant to come into contact with the rotor. I can see the point of not adding to what your already going to pick up in normal driving by coating them with something that may or may not glaze the pad (don't feel that lucky today!).

I appreciate every response on this thread, thanks guys!

quote Originally posted by psychosurfer: After I painted my rotors, I took them to the nearest tires plus and had them resurfaced. That way I have a good clean look in teh center (non friction surface) and still have the proper stopping power. I used caliper paint (spray type) and it has heald up fine for more than a few years and many miles. THe key is to PREP, PREP, PREP the surface to be painted..02

perfect.

Hey DRA, I had a 72 Datsun 510. Slotted and dropped suspension, stock brakes. I still miss that little screamer.

Arn

BTW, I don't paint my rotors or calipers, but it can be done with VHT, provided you mask off the friction surfaces.

I use Eastwood's hi-temp header paint, it's basically aluminum powder in a xylene-basd binder, and don't worry
about a little overlap since the result will be that the unswept area will be completely coated:



I've never had any perceptible change in braking before, right after, and long term from doing this. Break pads
wear normally, rotors wear normally.

JazzMan

(edited to fix the wrap problem created by the link below)

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 06-01-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Hey DRA, I had a 72 Datsun 510. Slotted and dropped suspension, stock brakes. I still miss that little screamer. Arn BTW, I don't paint my rotors or calipers, but it can be done with VHT, provided you mask off the friction surfaces.

I didn't turn mine into a screamer but did put a lot of work into that car and learned how to drive a M/T all before I turned 16, on my 16th birthday I came home and it was gone! Was told my dad had taken it to get new tires put on and an alignment. He came home with a 72 Maverick Grabber (at least it was still a M/T) and the work started all over again! LOL The Datsun will always hold good memories, l started working on it at 14 and really put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into that car. The Maverick was a nice little jump in performance but I was still a little miffed at first!!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I use Eastwood's hi-temp header paint, it's basically aluminum powder in a xylene-basd binder, and don't worry about a little overlap since the result will be that the unswept area will be completely coated: I've never had any perceptible change in braking before, right after, and long term from doing this. Break pads wear normally, rotors wear normally. JazzMan

I was up looking a good part of the night and found a guy that had e-mailed both StopTech and Baer Brakes and got basically the same reply from both. Coating the rotor with a hi-temp paint will cause a almost unmeasurable increase in retained heat due to the insulating properties of the coating, but they did say it was negligible, you would need some really hi-tech equipment to measure the difference. They also stated that it would have NO effect on the actual friction surface as it would be completely burnt off after a few braking cycles.
Now I have not personally contacted these manufacturers so this is second hand info and we all know how that can go! But I would not see the point in lieing about something like that (we also know how that can go sometimes LOL).

StopTech did have some neat info on their site about procedures for properly bedding the pads to rotors and such, their address for any who might be interested in checking out their site.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

I highly recommend everyone reading the Stoptech article on proper break in as well as "warped rotors", and I will take that one step further.

A common thing I see people do when they just made a hard stop (like for a short yellow light) is to just sit there with their foot on the brake. I normally recommend (assuming you have extra distance before the intersection) to relax pedal pressure and let the vehicle creep a few inches every few seconds so the pads do not transfer material to the rotor unevenly, and the rotor does not cool unevenly. I only recommend doing this after hard stops, not every traffic light. It is amazing how many people I have told this to that were bringing their vehicle back for "warped rotors" every 5k to 10k miles that have told me they no longer had any problems. Depending on who the person is that happens to be commenting on how bad their brakes are, my response has been a sarcastic "learn how to drive" followed by the above explanation. People who brake late and hard are the worst offenders based on what I have seen.

I reconstruct crashes (for civil matters, I am not a cop) and have done many technical investigations on wrecked vehicles. I have never seen anyone paint the friction surface but I will say that would generate a lot of unwanted attention from everyone involved. Read the stoptech article on "foreign substances" reacting with the metal of the rotor and creating hot spots. Considering the number of wrecks involving "new" or "recently restored/modified/rebuilt" vehicles, painted rotors may not have enough time to even burn off before the vehicle gets wrecked. Then the driver would really have some explaining to do.

The public seldom hears about investigation findings and pretty much only cares about a drivers guilt. Painting friction surfaces ranks up there with people who put air bags and helper springs on their light duty truck to tow more weight (not to add stability or load leveling purposes they are designed for), then they wonder why the axles snap off several thousand miles later as they are driving along normally....and it's always the vehicles fault.

This is the reply forwarded to me that a person got from Baer Brakes when asked if their rotors could be painted..

"Powder coating, painting or any other coating/plating can interfere with the cooling properties of all metals. In this case, as long as it is only applied to the non-frictional surface of the rotors, there should not be a problem. Over-spray or coatings on the friction surface won't have much of an effect either due to the pads cleaning the surface. Now as for the powder coating living, that's a whole other matter. The powder coating process is done at around 300 degrees. Now, most rotors run under normal conditions will run at about 250 to 600 degrees, and as high as 1400 degrees under extreme conditions! Powder coating will revert to a gelatinous state at around 300 degrees, so you can imagine that with any type of performance driving, it is not going to last very long. That is why Baer uses a zinc wash finish on our rotors. "
******************************************************************************************************
VHT's rated for up to 900 degrees F, I doubt that it would melt causing contamination of the pad (I'm hoping my rotors don't see 900F on initial braking, or any other time for that matter). I have seen brake pads with oil and grease contamination that were screwed but so far I cannot find a single case of anyone who painted a rotor with high temp paint that has had a problem, most all have stated that the swept area is scraped clean on the first application of the brakes (not hard braking, but like backing out of the driveway braking) leaving only the unswept area coated. I would definately stay away from the standard spray paint and make sure the paint that I used was cured properly before installation (tacky paint of any breed can make a big mess). I think someone in this thread mentioned using the old pads to remove the coating and then switching to the new pads which would probably be good insurance that there is no contamination of the new pad. Now the zinc wash finish sounds like the way to go, seems any metal plating company could provide that service for a reasonable price.

Hey I don't have definitave proof or experience with the subject and reserve the right to make judgement as more facts and statistics come forward but am enjoying what seems to have been very civil responses on the subject! I half expected to get run off the forum for even bringing up the subject LOL. I have always been a function over form type guy, all go and no show, but lately I have had a lot of peer pressure about external apperances.

Next June: CAI installations, the brutal truth!

Next July: ATF, the savior of your clutch's hydralic system!

lol, on a related note, it is possible to set the brakes on fire.

Friend of mine had a 00 Regal which he liked to drive a lot harder than he should have. Well one night aparenly he was doing some really hard driving and got out to find his rotors glowing red. They all gathered around the car laughing when suddently the caliper burst into flames !!! LOL. He was down on his knees blowing through the rim as hard as he could, and as soon as the fire went out he started getting up and poof poped back up. Didnt hurt anything but was funny as hell

Im guessing it was probably just covered in brake dust and some grease or something but I thought that was hillarious. Just goes to show you, you never know how hot you might get your brakes.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: lol, on a related note, it is possible to set the brakes on fire. Friend of mine had a 00 Regal which he liked to drive a lot harder than he should have. Well one night aparenly he was doing some really hard driving and got out to find his rotors glowing red. They all gathered around the car laughing when suddently the caliper burst into flames !!! LOL. He was down on his knees blowing through the rim as hard as he could, and as soon as the fire went out he started getting up and poof poped back up. Didnt hurt anything but was funny as hell Im guessing it was probably just covered in brake dust and some grease or something but I thought that was hillarious. Just goes to show you, you never know how hot you might get your brakes.

My brothers girlfriend at the time, now wife, called and was stranded on I-20 between Augusta and Atlanta (can't remember exactly where) where she had run out of gas. Took a few gallons of gas to her and was going to follow her to the nearest gas station so she could top off. As we're headed up I-20 I notice a glow coming from the rear passenger side which quickly turned to a shower of sparks. I flashed my lights, but finally almost had to practically force her off the road! She was cruising up I-20 with her emergency brake on. Luckly she pulled over before fire or worse resulted. The girl is a menace on the road, but you have to have some sympathy for her, she's asian. LOL J/K (don't mean to perpetuate any stereotypes, but you just gotta know her)

Most likely gonna go ahead and install the rotors tonight, gonna leave'um bare, but would still love to see some real data/testing to see what the effects are on different pad compounds and different coatings. Mainly just a sick curiousity. If I was considering only looks I would go ahead and give it a shot and report my findings but I am way over schedule and way over budget on the car already (and it will be a daily driver).

------------------
I hate to advocate weird chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... but they've always worked for me.

I did almost exactly what Jazzman did.

Except, since I was putting on new pads anyway, I used the *old* pads to wear the friction surface and then changed out to new pads the next day. Worked perfect.

Edit: and FWIW, I couldn't detect any paint contamination on the old pads when I took them off...

[This message has been edited by fierogt88 (edited 06-01-2006).]