Well, I finally got the 5.0 Caddy running. I have not yet hooked up the O2 sensor as I don't have the exhaust on it. But I have a couple of concerns after my first short test drive yesterday:

1) I have a 4-puck stage III Spec clutch and a Getrag. The clutch chatters when you first start off. Is this normal for a new clutch?

2) The Getrag has only 53,000 miles on it. It seems to be really notchy and hard to get into gear. The line is bled properly and there is over an inch of travel at the slave. The tranny was dry for a year waiting for the swap. Is it possible that it just needs to be driven? Or is there a cable adjustment?

3) I drove it a short distance up the street and back and when I pulled into the driveway it stalled. I tried to restart it but it wouldn't restart unless my foot was to the floor. There are no codes stored except 52 which just says it lost power to the ECU at some point. Is it possible it's acting like this becasue the O2 sensor is missing?

Thanks for any help you guys can throw my way.
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-Rick Stewart
85GT 5.0CaddyV8/Getrag 5-spd
www.V8Fiero.com

[This message has been edited by GT (edited 04-27-2006).]

Bump...

The only question that I can address is the chattering clutch. I have the same clutch hooked to my SC3800II/4 speed muncie, and the chattering was very evident when I first had it installed. It has calmed down considerably since it was installed, and does not chatter near as much as it did before.

Thank you Topcat, I was hoping that would be the case. Plus for you.

Rick; On the transaxle what are you using for lube?

As for the O2 sensors Running w/o would probably result in a rich condition and possibly hard restart, the condition you described sounds like restarting a flooded engine. Joe

Hi Joe-

quote Rick; On the transaxle what are you using for lube?

I'm using GM synchromesh.

quote As for the O2 sensors Running w/o would probably result in a rich condition and possibly hard restart, the condition you described sounds like restarting a flooded engine.

Ya know, that's exactly what it acted like, like an old flooded carbed SBC. Floor it, turn the key, and it would sputter back to life. Once it gets revved up pretty good it'll run. Then it'll sputter and die. I'll get the O2 sensor and a couple of catalytic converters hooked up this weekend. Then I can idle it for a good long time and make sure the cooling system is purged and doesn't leak, set the timing, make sure the cooling fan comes on, all that fun stuff.

Sorry I can't dole out beer on the forum, all I can give is plusses...

[This message has been edited by GT (edited 04-28-2006).]

GT, on the clutch it will chatter at first. I have about 1500 miles on my 6 speed install and it is about half of what I started with. As for the stalling, Did you hook the VSS signal to the ECM? The ECM must know the MPH to run correctly. And try and get the O2 sensor working as soon as possible.

Jack

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If you can not run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!

Hi Jack, sort of funny you replied to this as I had a problem with my alternator light not coming on... turned out it was because I had switched guage cluters to an '87 unit and I haven't installed my center console guages. So I swapped my old '85 cluster in and the alternator light came on. Problem is, now the light won't go off with the engine on!! Once I get the thing to run right and charge the battery I'll follow your instructions and swap out the IP and center guages.

I do have the VSS wired up like it shows on Jon Lagler's site. I have the O2 sensor hooked up now and two catalytic converters are on there. I have to keep my foot constantly on the gas for it to idle. Seems to run pretty rough too. It showed a code 70 today which is intermittent TPS. Voltage goes from .92 volts at closed throttle to 3.27 volts at WOT. Sounds like the TPS is shot so I'll get a new one tomorrow. Will that cause it to not idle and stall out?

[This message has been edited by GT (edited 04-30-2006).]

OK, I'm an idiot... I should have known by the ID-10-T error on the scanner.

I went back and rechecked my wiring and started with the TPS since I had the 70 error yesterday. Lo and behold, I had wired the TPS bass ackwards. So I wired it according to the Allante manual like I thought I had done before. Started up and idled perfectly. I don't know what I was thinking. Who knows what else is wired wrong now but I guess I'll check all my connections before I put a new alternator on there.

Though, about the alternator I'm kind of confused. At the battery it shows 12.4 volts. At the lamp connections it shows 10.1 volts. Sound like a leaky diode in the alternator?

Thanks
-Rick

Rick; It's those stupid little things that seem to muck up the start up of an engine swap, glad that your getting it sorted out. I for one can't wait for your impersions of how the modded motor runs as I'm planning most of the mods for mine, allready have the intake and am looking into a different ecm for tuneability reasons. Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe

Dont feel bad, my 4.9 swap would not start to save my life. I ended up checking and double checking. Ended up I had the Disty 180 out little things !!!

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. There are still two major-ish hurdles before I can drive it:

1) The alternator light stays on but it's not full on, it's pretty dim. I wonder if it's because I painted the alternator bracket and the case can't ground to the block? But then the light shouldn't even be trying to come on anyway. I'll get a new one tomorrow or Thursday.

2) The new throwout bearing I got from CarQuest is no good so I have to drop the tranny and replace it. Planning on supporting the engine and swinging the cradle down and then pulling the tranny out the side.

Once I get my first real ride I'll update my 4.9 Performance thread and let everyone know how it runs. I'll tell you what though, it sounds like a beast. It just revs like there's no tomorrow.

-Rick

Rick; On the throwout bearing I strongly recomend that you go to the GM dealer to get the oem bearing, They seem to be the most reliable. It's bad enough that you have to drop the trans, so you might as well put the best part in that you can. Joe

Here are some pictures of what I found today when I got my tranny pulled:





The inner sleeve on this CarQuest bearing is made of plastic. So it melted and somehow the bearing housing got bent.





The pressure plate fingers look pretty worn and I've barely driven the car 200 feet. Also the rivets from the pressure plate look like they're scraping the round piece in the getrag.

Could all of this be from a bad bearing or is there something else I need to check/replace/fix?

Thanks.

-Rick

[This message has been edited by GT (edited 05-06-2006).]

quote Originally posted by GT: Could all of this be from a bad bearing or is there something else I need to check/replace/fix?

I've never done a 4.9, never mind a manual tranny 4.9, but it looks to me like the flywheel or pressure plate might be too thick.

I have to agree with Raydar, that don't look right. The pressure plate shouldn't be making contact with the trans case. My first impressions are that the flywheel is placing the clucth to deep in the trans. Do you still have the original engine and flywheel to measure the surface of the flywheel to the surface of the block for comparison to the current parts? Joe

edit to add; does anybody have the dimensions he needs to check with?

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-06-2006).]

I sort of thought of that but with all the work involved I didn't want to think about it.

Originally I was building a 3.4TDC with an Isuzu. I bought a SPEC stage III and they sent me the wrong disc. I called and they made good and sent me a new larger disc but I kept the pressure plate. I realized for less money I'd have more power and a nice V8 sound. So I got a 4.9 and I was going to use the Isuzu with it. But I found a low mileage Getrag in the U-pull it yard. So I called SPEC and asked them if I could use the same clutch on the Getrag as I had for the Isuzu. SPEC said yes, but the TO bearing is different. So I got a TOB at Car Quest and here we are. I have a TO bearing for a Getrag, a PP and disc for an Isuzu and a new flywheel specifically made for the 4.9 by Greg Duncan.

I just looked at the SPEC site and they list two different part numbers for the Getrag and the Isuzu Stage III kits (SC883 Getrag and SC783 Isuzu). I'll have to give them a call on Monday morning. In the meantime I have an original Isuzu PP, disc, TOB, tranny and flywheel that I'll compare to the SPEC equipment that I have.

-Rick

If Id'e known that your clucth was a combination of parts, that would have been my first choice for the cause of the problem. However both things need to be checked out.

You'll probably want to repace the throwout fork, while you'r at it. Joe

Something else doesn't add up either. When I bolted the slave on it was almost fully pushed in by the lever. Sounds like something in the clutch assy is too thick doesn't it? I'll do some more research and post it when I find out.

OK guys, I'm a dipsh*t.

I talked to Jeremy at SPEC today and he was very helpful. He went back to their stock and measured every piece and checked the depth of their flywheel and verified that all of the parts that I have should fit. So he suggested that I call the flywheel maker and see if maybe I got a thick flywheel. I came home from work and measured my SPEC/Greg Duncan setup against the spare factory Isuzu clutch and flywheel that I have. They are both EXACTLY the same thickness. So I went out and took a look at the TO bearing that came with my Getrag to see if I could discern any possible similarities or differences to the roasted one that I had installed.

I noticed mine had wear on one side and the one that came with my tranny had wear on the other side. Then it dawned on me... I put the TO bearing in backwards...

I took the TOB back to CarQuest because he had ordered me a new one under warranty last week and it was in today. I told him that it was my fault and I had put the thing in backwards. He smiled and said, "you can't put it in backwards." I said, "yup, you can, you just can't drive it like that." So I was very impressed that CarQuest honored their warranty despite me being a dipsh*t.

Well, there you have it. Make sure the fingers are BETWEEN the tabs on the bearing and make sure it's on the shaft the right way. In this case I think name calling and general heckling is appropriate... let 'er rip.

Rick "Wrongway" Stewart

Hey Rick; are tou telling us that you had the tabs facing the pressure plate?

I think that Wrongway will be enough of a beating for now. Good luck on the reassembly.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe

uhhh... yeah... but I didn't have the fork between the tabs either, it was just pushed on. I don't know what I was thinking. I had just cut the 'notch' in the bellhousing and cut the tab off the top of the tranny to clear the oil filter. I guess all the remorse and guilt from cutting a perfectly good getrag clouded my thinking. I guess, I dunno, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I did contact the dealer about getting a 'real' TOB. They said it would be four days for it to come in. I don't have that kind of time as Carlisle is coming up quickly. I'll go with the carquest bearing for now. As long as I put it in right it should work OK.

-Wrongway

GT - I've had many aftermarket clutches wear small grooves into the bellhousings through the years - they usually clearance themselves within the first few seconds of running and then never touch again. I've had it happen on 4speeds and isuzus - never done much with getrags, but you get the idea.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: GT - I've had many aftermarket clutches wear small grooves into the bellhousings through the years - they usually clearance themselves within the first few seconds of running and then never touch again. I've had it happen on 4speeds and isuzus - never done much with getrags, but you get the idea.

So are you saying that the pressure plate rivets hitting the inside of the bellhousing is not an issue?
The throwout bearing replacement isn't going to fix that.

That IS interesting Kohburn. You can see in the pressure plate picture that only one rivet really hit the casing. It's sort of odd to think that GM would design it with such close tolerances. Unless this is yet another case where the aftermarket makes the replacement parts slightly out of spec, ie: the rivet head thickness. Now that you mention it when I built my 3800SC Fiero the Getrag I used had the same wear mark on the casing before I put it together. I have two Isuzus in the garage. I'll have to check on that when I get home.

quote Originally posted by GT: Voltage goes from .92 volts at closed throttle to 3.27 volts at WOT. Sounds like the TPS is shot so I'll get a new one tomorrow. Will that cause it to not idle and stall out?

Yes. Got mine wet and had the excact same issues, The replacement was for a 94 deville (which is diffrent ) I have a 93, Car would idle high and not shift into 3rd. oncei got the correct tps on everything was fine

umm nevermind. I just re-read and noticed Getrag.

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Central Florida Fieros
Home of
The Fall Haul
And
Spring Fling Poker Run
www.centralfloridafieros.net

[This message has been edited by CentralFloridaFieros (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by GT:

Ewww!

I like blue, but not on that! Would be best to use the GM bearing.

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Got Blue?

BlueGT

I got everything back together and she runs real nice-like. The clutch grabs and holds and doesn't chatter. I can't even describe the experience of driving this car. It's raw, loud, and just plain crazy.

so what clutch did you go with? I feel Im gonna need to replace mine with a beefier one than I have now.

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Central Florida Fieros
Home of
The Fall Haul
And
Spring Fling Poker Run
www.centralfloridafieros.net

SPEC stage 3. The product is great and I've had top notch customer service from them.

quote Originally posted by GT: I got everything back together and she runs real nice-like. The clutch grabs and holds and doesn't chatter. I can't even describe the experience of driving this car. It's raw, loud, and just plain crazy.

Thats cool, I was wondering how things were going. Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe