I have a goal this winter to revamp my stock 2.8 to make it solid enough to be reliable with a mild turbo system. I have a 88 with about 110000 miles on it, it will puff smoke out the exhaust on start up but other wise it doesn't appear to have any other problems. It idles good it revs good, it doesn't over heat or make questionable noises, to me it just seems to be mechanically solid. But like I said it does use a bit of oil and I am over all unaware of the actual condition of the mechanics on the inside. Just this last year I purchased a complete gasket set for the 88 2.8 cause it was a good deal and I figured that if at any point I need any of these gaskets I would have them on hand.

My question is or inquiry would be should I assume that if I just went through and replaced all the gaskets and and other things you should do while your engine is out like cleaning out deposits, new bearings, adjusting valve lash, etc. with out going as far as an entire rebuild kit with all new internals and boring out the cylinders that it should be reliable for say a mild turbo kit. I am searching for anybody with experience to be able to tell me whether I am just dreaming or any info bringing to light things I might have to consider once I actually have my engine apart. I know enough that if there is serious wear on anything it should be replaced and if ever the engine looks to be damaged in any way steps will have to be taken to right the problem but assuming that my engine is very well off on the inside and its only leaking due to things like worn gaskets and seals that just replacing those things should be enough to tighten it back up. If you know and want to contribute I would appreciate it greatly otherwise I'm just going to do it anyways.

And another question if I start getting a lot of "you will probably have to rebuild it entirely to even consider a turbo" why does a brand new engine need to go though 6000 miles of break in before a turbo could be put on. I only ask cause their are brand new engines everywhere that are mildly turboed and getting more Hp than I am after so if it came down to me having to consider a total rebuild or a new engine why couldn't I spring for a crate engine and just turbo it. To me it seems like a better option to buy a slightly more expensive crate motor where everything would be brand new on it and it would make my project go a lot faster but if I had to wait 6000 miles before I could turbo it that would make me unhappy. Thanks to anyone who wants to help.

Daniel

seriously

You MUST do a compression test before you decide what to do. If there is one weak cylinder, then don't do the turbo without a complete rebuild or yes, you are dreaming. An engine with 110,000 miles on it, is not a likely candidate for a turbo install.
If you go the crate motor route and get a 2.8 long block; new block, internals and heads, you will likely be better off. A new 2.8 long block will cost you about $ 1,300.
And yes you will have to break in the motor first, using regular petroleum based motor oil. 7,500 miles is about right. Then install the turbo and switch to synthetic oil which is better for turbos.
I did exactly what is stated above and have had good results. But, none of this is cheap, as you might expect. Ed

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Ok thanks so lets say I did a compession check and all the cyclinders were ok than I could have good results with just minimaly going through the engine replacing things like bearings and seals and tightening up everything properly when I put it back together? And I guess I am unclear about the breaking in process what does such a great bit of mileage do to actually better prepare the engine for a turbo. I can understand things like seals have their time to set adequately but what effect does it really have with the mechinicals or does it have to do with with the oil. I know first hand that synthetics will find away to seep out if it can but if thats the case is it really that bad to run a regular oil through a turbo? Thanks again

Daniel

First, with a newly rebuild engine it is a matter of making sure that everything is running well. Difficulties are more difficult to diagnosis with a turbo installed, because more than likely your turbo kit, whether home built or in kit form, will not function properly the first time. So it is good to rule out everything in the beginning.

Understnad that a turbo is not friend of an engine, especially one that was not build for a turbo. Strapping a turbo on a stock engine, or even a rebuild one, is shortening its life and adding stress and strain to all internal parts.

I will add that I have a freshly rebuild engine with less than 100 miles on it and have just installed my own turbo kit. The engine and turbo function fine. But, neither have been sufficiently abuse yet, I only occasionally venture onto street. My car is not insured and so I am waiting till Spring to officially launch it on the highway.

There is plenty of information on turbo on this forum along with lost of pictures of kits done in the garage and purchased. Someone should really compile all this information for easy access, as it seem many are interested in it.

Please view my website. Sorry I recently removed all the documentation on my engine rebuild. I do have pics of my turbo install. Please enjoy.

David

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87 Fiero GT (3.2 Turbo)
E-mail: david88@peoplepc.com
www.angelfire.com/pa5/davidfiero/

Thanks for the reply. But assuming that my engine still had good compression and the internals were still solid it could still be a reliable engine with a turbo or our are 2.8 just a bad engine to deal with this kind of thing? Would I be better off looking into things like roller rockers and a better cam and a better ignition system to up the power with out having to stress about the complications of forced induction and added stress to the current engine I have? I still plan on dropping the engine I figure it wont hurt find out what the condition of my engine is and if once its apart and I find its not worth saving than I think I could start justifying a brand new engine. Are there a lot of 2.8s that are closer to 200,000 miles and still doing ok or do these engines have a tendency to just start breaking down after time? Anyways thanks again.

Daniel

Hey daniel it's JT how you been.

I wouldn't even risk a turbo on an old 2.8...these motors aren't that reliable once they are old and beat on. I would get a new shortblock 3.1 for like $600 transfer all your 2.8 stuff to it and call it a day. Then if you want a turbo go for it.

Six thousand miles before turbo is just BS, We have installed over 20 rebuild motors. We haven’t lost any due to getting into boost before 6000 miles. Around 200 miles we may get into 2-5 psi boost and when the motor reaches around 500-600 miles we let rip to 20-25 psi. Now these motors and not the 2.8 NA motors that are turbo charged, they are built 3.8 or 4.1 Buick motors with forged pistons and good internals. The few things you have to make sure is that; the rings are seated properly, the cam is broken in if it is a flat tappet cam. If you want to be so sure the maximum I would go is 1000 miles. Make sure the heads are redone with good HD springs for the valve. The things the kills a motor is detonation due to lack of fuel, too much timing, excess inlet temperature. Bolting on a turbo is not going to make your car go fast. What makes a car run is; proper fuel, timing and boost management. Without that it’s a matter of time before the $hit hits the fan.

It’s sounds cool say hey, I am turbo charging the motor. In my opinion, if you are going to do that, do it right. Get 8.5 to 1 forged pistons, full ARP hardware for head bolts, rod bolts ,main studs and so on. Once again, I am not sure how strong these 2.8 blocks are or what is the maximum HP it can handle.

Hey, I can go on and on, I am not knocking you in any way. It’s your car and you should do what you would like to do, you have that right. Maybe try 5-8psi and see how long she holds up.

HTH

Prasad

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"Turbo Cars are like hot women. A little edgy, every guy wants one, some guys can't handle them, and if you throw a little alchohol in the mix they'll rock your world"
1986 GT (waiting for Buick GN setup trasplant)
1984SE 5 Speed W/SBC V8
1997 GTP
1987 Buick GN(10.70@124MPH)
1987 Trans Am SBC 355cid Twin Turbo(no track times yet)
1992 GMC Typhoon(13.20@ 99mph)
Other cars; JaguarXJR, XJ6 & Mercedes AMG 500SEC

[This message has been edited by WikedV6 (edited 11-07-2005).]

When you open up your 2.8 be prepared for surprises.

When I did mine, it was running well, with "decent" compression, and this is what I found.

1. the engine was rebuilt in 1997
2. There had been cylinder damage and it was overbored .050
3. The timing chain was sloppy.
4. The oil pump screen was partially clogged.
5. The clutch wasn't really worth putting back in.
6. The starter was full of leaves and muck - but tested ok
7. It had one scored sleeve bearing but the rest were within specs
8. I needed all new gaskets for everything I pulled apart.

This is the kind of variety of issues you might encounter when you open up a 20 year old engine.

As for turbo without a rebuild? I wouldn't. Pressure on old parts is not a good idea unless you don't mind replacing it.

Hope this helps.

Arn

Do I still need to break in my engine if I rebuild it?

Yes you must break in the engine before the turbo. You must break in any freshly rebuilt engine. This insures that the rings are seated and lets everything mesh together before being wound up.

quote Originally posted by The Poopsmith: Do I still need to break in my engine if I rebuild it?

If you go to a new car dealer and look at a car with a turbo ask them if the engine was broke in before the turbo was installed.
Now if you are going to install a blower and run nitro--- many updates would be required. Just take it apart and check it out good. If the pistons are worn out or cylinders tapered your in for a rebuild. Otherwise freshen it up with rings, bearings, valve job, timing set and put on the turbo. Other than that- new engines break just like old ones. Alot depends on what you do with your foot.

Anybody else be able to give me more info like gunnies. I've gotten some good info on here and I thank everybody who has posted but since I am planning on puttin my time and money into my car this winter I would like to know all my options and their consequences. But I have one backing up my original idea and more defusing it and while I probably ought to take most peoples advice I'd like to be stubborn and get more info on why going through my engine and replaceing things like seals, and rings and bearings and other little things assuming that I still have good compression and no major wear would not be enough to add a turbo. If I decided to not turbo it but also couldn't afford a new engine would doing this be enough to just freshen up my engine and insure that I could get another 50,000+ miles out of it? Thanks again

Daniel

Go back and read your original post. Sounds like you have a good engine with some wear on your valve guides. Depending how you drive it, it should hold up another 50,000. There are many out there with 160,000 on them! It also sounds like you know/understand basic engines. If this is a winter project start by taking it apart and seeing what you have (for sure) to work with. You might be surprized either way. If you are just planning on building for the street, with no exotic fuels, your 2.8 will work. Only YOU know what you really want/need out of it. The bigger you go and the more you put on will just give more chances for something to happen. Here again, this is not your daily driver but you want it as dependable as possible. Lastly-- Good luck

I've heard that newer engine do not need the break-in time that old engines required. My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that newer engines are made to tighter tolerances, as machine equipment is much more precise today. So unlike like days past, you do not have to do through those long break-in periods.

But, just to contradict myself, my friend has a turbo "Subee" Forester, and I remember him saying that he was to drive it easy for the first hundred miles or so when he first got it. Fast SUV, runs above 10psi most of the time.

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87 Fiero GT (3.2 Turbo)
E-mail: david88@peoplepc.com
www.angelfire.com/pa5/davidfiero/

Rotrex Fiero is right. The engine has to be broken in correctly. New engine technology doesn't require this but ours do. Don't forget, the guys who make their living rebuilding engines will tell you that 100 or 1,000 miles is a good break in period. But just think about it, these guys make their living rebuilding engines; they would love to rebuild yours for $ 1,500 since you didn't break it in long enough. An engine with new internal parts, such as the 2.8 needs 7,500 miles with petroleum based oil to break in properly. Like the old oil filter commercial says "You can pay me now or pay me more later". Keep your money and break the engine in correctly. Ed