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YABT.. 4.9 Turbo install by Rhino88gt
Started on: 07-12-2005 10:46 PM
Replies: 128
Last post by: PBJ on 04-07-2006 09:32 PM
Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-12-2005 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Hi y'all, After about two months of gathering parts, Im finally doing my 4.9 turbo swap. It's the infamous motor that came out of Her86gt's car. I am putting it in my 86gt 4spd car. I also have aquired an 80 citation trans to swap the 3.32 final drive into my v6 4spd. I will be posting as many pictures as I can once I figure out how to resize them to fit on here. This first one is just a test to make sure it works.

------------------
"HOT, HOTTER, HOTTEST!!!"
Red 88GT 5spd For Sale
Gold 87GT 5spd #115 PARTING OUT!!
Red 86GT 4spd soon to have Her86gt's 4.9 turbo motor!!!

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-12-2005 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Here's a shot from above:

A shot of the engine on the front side:

Here's the fuel press. regulator that Im gonna use:

I'll have more pics tomarrow now that Ive got this figured out.

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Report this Post07-12-2005 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Capt FieroDirect Link to This Post
I look forward to watching this install.

------------------
85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

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Report this Post07-13-2005 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Master Tuner AkimotoClick Here to visit Master Tuner Akimoto's HomePageSend a Private Message to Master Tuner AkimotoDirect Link to This Post
Supporting you all the way my 4.9 brothaaaaaaaa go kick some bootaaay

------------------
"King of the Hill" Twin Turbo V8 GT,
250hp Direct Injected Nitrous Oxide System
5.1 litre "PoD"Caddy Powered Widebody Exotic Super Car .(WIP)
"Juice and Boost"

"I like it when you call me Big Poppa"

Always Sunny Florida.

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Report this Post07-13-2005 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Now that engine looks familiar . I enjoy the picture build up threads. I pitty the tranny I wish you were closer so I could feel the engine with a stick shift.

Pete

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-13-2005 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Here are a few shots showing some of my progress, AND my "shade-tree" work area. I have everything to the 2.8 disconnected, Im just waiting on the guy to get me the cradle dolly that I am borrowing. He also has got my replacement cradle with him for modification.

The engine bay w/o the decklid:

The ecm and wiring harness removed:

Oh and PBJ, I will hopefully get to go to Carlisle within the next year or two so maybe you can see it then, hehe.

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-13-2005 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Well, I had to stop for a while on the count of rain, so I decided to take a few pictures of a few of the goodies I've gotten for the swap.
My flywheel courtesy of MTA:

My Spec stage III:

And ofcourse my boost and A/F gauges:

Hey PBJ, is it alright if I ask my questions for you on here, that way the info will be available to others???

Ive got it mostly figured out Im just a little confused on a couple of the hoses/ lines.


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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-13-2005 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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I DO have a question for all you engine swap gurus out there. Can I get rid of that alternator fan that's in the trunk?? I dont see why it would be a problem I just wanted to make sure.
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Report this Post07-13-2005 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Master Tuner AkimotoClick Here to visit Master Tuner Akimoto's HomePageSend a Private Message to Master Tuner AkimotoDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the prop any how yes you can get rid of the fan as it was there for blowing cool air to the coil in the engine bay ,now there is a different configuration just toss it out.
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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-13-2005 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
A couple more pics.

My 4 little helpers:

I got my replacement cradle tonight with the motor mount lowered as per PBJ's instruction:

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Report this Post07-13-2005 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Looking good! Sure we can do questions on the thread, any way works for me. Your questions may help others out too.

Pete

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Report this Post07-14-2005 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
My ttop roof that I bought from Songman back in November came in today so I had to go pick it up:
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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-14-2005 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Ok, do any of you guys have any pointers for getting those stupid cradle bolts out. The rears are on ther TIGHT!!! I broke one socket and one extension on them already!!!
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Report this Post07-14-2005 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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ok, I got the driver's side rear one off, but the pass. side just turns and turns. It hasnt moved down ANY. It makes me think that it's stripped, but if it is wouldnt it just fall out??? Anyways, this has been quite a snag.
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Report this Post07-14-2005 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
When the captured nut spins freely inside the frame we end up taking the inner fender splash shield out and with a cut off wheel we make a flap, bend the flap up to get a grip on the spinning nut and when you are done weld it back up.

Pete

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-14-2005 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
I didnt really get much done today because of the one cradle bolt. This morning I thought surely I would have the 2.8 dropped today. Anyways, here's a couple more pics I took today.
This one is of the car jacked up to the required height:

Wheels off and cherry picker in place:

And here's that stubborn cradle bolt that I didnt make any progress on after about 4 hours of work:

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-14-2005 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Thanks for the tip Pete, I'll give that a try. I dont have a welder though, so I'll have to "outsource" that part, OH WELL, LOL
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Report this Post07-14-2005 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Here it is w/o the spash guard:

Is this the area you meant Pete??

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PBJ
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Report this Post07-14-2005 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Thats the area, just cut 3 of the sides so it is easier to pull back down and weld up again. Also I weld a long bolt or rod to the old captured nut to stop it from spinning inside the frame so you can tighten it up and for the next time you drop the cradle.

Pete

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-14-2005 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
OK, thanks again,
I have to go get a cutting wheel tomorrow, the one I have here is junk, (what a supprise). Im gonna have some questions when the time comes for routing all the hoses.


BTW I just gave a + for all the service you have given me. (You'll get more later)

[This message has been edited by Rhino88gt (edited 07-14-2005).]

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-15-2005 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Ok, I made progress with that bolt thanks to PBJ's suggestion.

Thanks Pete it worked like a charm.

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-15-2005 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
GREAT, now both the front cradle bolts are siezed in the bushings. ANY advice on how to get them out. I dont have a torch handy to burn them.
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PBJ
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Report this Post07-15-2005 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Air hammer. Impact gun. I have always had air tools

Pete

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Report this Post07-15-2005 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
LOL, NO, AIR GRINDER!!!

pulling it out from the rear:

and it's out:

Now how do I get the hoist out from under it???

LIKE THIS, DUHHH!!!

LOOK AT THIS CRACK!!

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-15-2005 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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And finally here are the hubs removed from the cradle with everything still attached:
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Report this Post07-16-2005 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Well here's some pics of my progress this afternoon.

Got the trans off the engine:

Here it is on the workbench:

The case split:

Internals from the citation trans and the fiero trans:

Phantom Grip ready to install:

And 5 minutes later it's in:

Yikes!! When I pulled the input shaft out it just came apart!!

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Rhino88gt
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Report this Post07-16-2005 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Question for any 4 spd gurus out there: Can I use the v6 speed sensor and speedo gear?, I hope so cause the citation' is totally different.
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Report this Post07-17-2005 07:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 86fieroEarlSend a Private Message to 86fieroEarlDirect Link to This Post
It's looking good so far, But you might have to modify that crossover a bit. Since your using the manuel transmission, The crossover might interfere with the shifting linkage. On pbj's setup he was using the automatic transmission. Not many ppl are using a crossover on a stickshift 4.9 I think we have 3 stickshift 4.9s using a crossover( me one of them). Modifying the crossover is easy but will have to be done.
You made the right choice of going with a spec clutch on that setup Just give the clutch time to break in.... No burning out no going fast for the first 500 miles. It's a good thing your rebuilding the transmission...And the 4speed is one of the stronger transmissions so you should be good to go in that department.

. Keep us updated on the install + for you.


Question.... What kind of Blow off vavle are you using( the atmospheric setup sounds cool) ? For the exhaust I would route the downpipe for the wastegate into the exhaust downpipe.... Looping it into the exhaust is way quiter then using a atmospheric setup on the wastegate.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 07-17-2005).]

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Report this Post07-17-2005 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Master Tuner AkimotoClick Here to visit Master Tuner Akimoto's HomePageSend a Private Message to Master Tuner AkimotoDirect Link to This Post
I like the atmospheric BOV as it sounds very nice to show off when you back off the accelerator and ditto on the crossover pipe I will have to do the same only difference my turbos are bolted to the backside exhaust manifold where the muffler goes ..................looking good so far .
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Report this Post07-17-2005 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, I knew I was gonna have to modify the crossover, PBJ and I had talked about this when I bought it, but thanks anyways for the tip. The BOV came with the motor and it is a Bosch if Im not mistaken.
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Report this Post07-17-2005 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Here's some pics from today

The trans back together w/ bellhousing mod:

Hey PBJ, what does this connector go to??:

A pic with the MTA flywheel and Spec clutch installed:

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Report this Post07-17-2005 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
That connector is for the neutral safety switch of the automatic 4T60 transmission. Your car will have the switch on the clutch pedal so you can go directly from C500 to the starter with your purple starter solinoid feed wire. The green and blue wires are for reverse lights.

Pete

[This message has been edited by PBJ (edited 07-17-2005).]

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Report this Post07-18-2005 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
So do the green and blue wires go to the switch or the lights?? Since I have a 4spd, the switch is ofcourse on the shifter.

Anyways, heres a few more pics:
The trans bolted to the engine:

PBJ, Im assuming this goes to the opening on the oil pan, correct??:

I think if I have the crossover rewelded in this position with a piece running in between it will clear the shift cables ok:

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Report this Post07-18-2005 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
You have been busy.


It looks like you will have alot more room below the turbo to route the exhaust and still keep the lower part of your trunk. Remember you want 3 inch exhaust min after the turbo. We did not use a cat. or muffler, just resinator tips and it was quite enough.

As for the reverse lights. I am not sure from memory, but I believe you do not have to do anything with those wires because yours will already be wired through the body harness since your switch is at the shifter.

Yes you will need to get high temperature hose to run from the turbo to the oil pan. I now would used a few rubber sections, one at the turbo the other at the pan and then steel pipe conduit that electricians run wires through (not the flexable stuff but the pipe).

Here is a pick with an all rubber tube from the turbo to pan. This hose was flexable and came wraped with cord, I purchased it at the local "Hose Headquarters" I just asked them for 3 feet of high temp low pressure line.


Pete

[This message has been edited by PBJ (edited 07-18-2005).]

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Report this Post07-19-2005 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
Hey pete, on the sonlenoid wire, can I use the one at the safety start connector or do I have to use the one you had by the starter?? And do I need to do anything with the rest of the wires going to that connector?? Also, where do I hook up the vacuum hose to?? On the MAT sensor where did you hook that up??
What does the T in the heater line go to??

I found these 2 hoses under the throttle body, what do they hook up to??

Thanks again Pete for all your help.

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Report this Post07-19-2005 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Since you have a standard transmission your purple starter feed wiring is at a different terminal location on C500. I would remove your purple starter feed wire from your existing fiero engine harness and plug it into the same position of your 4.9 harness C500. No you should not need any of the wires going to the transmission connector. You will need manifold vacuum to the aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, MSD 6BTM and MAP sensor. I needed aditional vacuum signal to the auto transmission and boost guage. Be sure the MAP sensor has its own signal hose and does not share with the others, I used one of the brass ports for the MAP. The heater T was required because I used a rear mounted pressure surge tank, so the tee went from the engine, one line to heater pipe and other to the surge tank. Also the small hose from on top of the T/stat housing goes into the surge tank.

Hope this helps.

Pete

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Report this Post07-21-2005 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
TTT
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Report this Post07-21-2005 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post

Rhino88gt

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Ok here's a couple pics of my progress this evening

Finally made time to mount the motor onto the cradle:

I used rodney's motor mount and trans. mounts, and they worked like a dream!!


As you can see here the turbo and crossover are off the engine. I took them to the same guy that did my cradle mod. He is going to tack weld a piece on there for me to check, and I'll just keep going back to him with the needed corrections until it fits. They are also fixing the cracks on my 88gt's cradle (just happened last week).

[This message has been edited by Rhino88gt (edited 07-21-2005).]

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Report this Post07-24-2005 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rhino88gtClick Here to visit Rhino88gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to Rhino88gtDirect Link to This Post
bump ttt for updates later
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Report this Post07-24-2005 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PBJ:

Thats the area, just cut 3 of the sides so it is easier to pull back down and weld up again. Also I weld a long bolt or rod to the old captured nut to stop it from spinning inside the frame so you can tighten it up and for the next time you drop the cradle.

Pete

While I do not doubt that Petes method will work, I use a method to remover stubborn rear cradle bolts that requires no cutting or welding. Remove the rear facia. Now look inside the frame and you will see the two "top hat" nuts that tend to break loose and spin when you turn the cradle bolts. Get in there with a torch and heat the nuts up to cherry red. Let them cool and spary them liberally with PB blaster or some equally good penetrant. Now go buy a self adjusting plumbers faucet nut wrench- the kind with aligator teeth that lock on with spring pressure to the long nut. With the wrench holding the nut and the cradle supported, use an impact wrench to loosen those nuts. You will find that they will come out.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

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