Hey,

well I got to talking with my dad, and somehow got the idea of a turbo in our head. So we are going to do it I think, but keep it under budget. It isn't that we don't have the money, just want to keep it low. I'm looking for 50-70hp out of this. The car is a 1992 Lumina Z34, but I figured I'd put it here considering everyone that is looking to turbo their MPFI 3.4.

I don't have much determined yet, but I want to run it off the TGP bin, so Kohburn, I'll be needing your help here.

So far here is the plan: GT35r turbocharger (I don't go that cheap), a medium sized front mount with inlet/outlet on one side, 2.5" downpipe to stock exhaust (For now, 3" to come), 2.5" charge piping, fenderwell intake, stock injectors (24lbs, rated at 300hp max), an external wastegate, and a BOV. I havn't figured out sizes so far yet, and have yet to run the compressor maps for it, but will be doing that soon. I'm going to start at 4psi, and would like to run 6-8 everyday.

This is all on a 92 with a salvage title and brand new crate motor, 9.25:1 compression.

About the TGP bin (Kohburn): Do I just need the chip, or do I need the whole ECU? Is it plug and play? What sensors do I need to add besides the TGP MAP sensor?

Thanks a lot, and many pics to come. The car dynoed at 178whp/186wtq bone stock, I'd like to see 230whp after this.

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im gunna be following this very closely.........you and i think alike on this part. Im just so broke i dont even consider it.

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86 Fiero SE 3.4 DOHC 4 speed
Spec stage 2
its the luminero?

Strongly boosted and properly controlled a 3.4TDC should easily make 300HP. Theta engine has all of the right ingredients for breathing- 4 valves per cylinder. IT doesn't seem like a popular engine choice but results from this turbocharged powerplant are bound to be excellent. Anyone have any 1/4 mile times for a turbo 3.4TDC?

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

No 1/4mi times yet, but the highest one dynoed at 263whp so far, and that was with very imcomplete tuning.

My setup is going to be very like his, except for a better trubocharger.

Kohburn mentioned that Darth may be able to program the factory chip to accept a 2 bar MAP sensor, and then just adjust the fuel tables. And since Kohburn is running a pretty stock 3.4 turbo, and IIRC Darth did his chip, Darth can use the same tables on mine, and until I get it fully tuned it should work.

Once I get the chip, or the new ECU, whichever route I decide to take, I am going to start purchasing components.

Darth did my chip. All I has to do was swap out the Map for a 2 bar and plug in the chip. It idles funny, but it will be fixed as soon as I give Darth some scan tool info.

Sweet, that makes me feel good that people have it working, and that Darth has done it. He has my business.

What is your setup?

3.4l DOHC right?
What year motor/ECU?
3.4l DOHC ECU or TGP?

Thanks a lot for the help, I will be doing this very soon!

Matt Hawkins ran a 13.20 @ 105mph with his 3.4 DOHC Turbo Fiero GT.
At some point he dynoed about 290 WHP, 330 ft/lbs, running 12 psi. However, I don't know whether or not his car was tuned the same way when he ran the 13.2. I would think it should be faster if that was the case.

Well after a lot of research, we have chosen the turbocharger, and you all are going to KILL ME.

Garrett GT35r with a T4 turbine, compressor 82mm 56 trim, .70 a/r. Turbine 68mm 84 trim, .82 a/r. Maximum efficiency at 7psi of boost should be just above 80% from 4600rpm to 6800rpm, which is AWESOME. Few turbochargers even breach 75%!

It is about $1400, but the entire kit will be just about $2500, $3000 max, and that includes the Tial wastegate, some brand of BOV, custom Y-pipe crossover, full 3" exhaust dualed to 2.5s, 2.5" charge piping, front mount intercooler, and a chip burned by Darth Fiero. I might even bump up the boost to 8-9, so long as the chip can do it. I'll keep updating once I've boughten the parts and am starting on it. I'd like to do it over X-mas break, but I may not be able to, in which case it'd haev to wait until summertime...bah...

Are you putting together a kit for sale? I am interested!

Not yet, but maybe sometime in the future for all 3.4l DOHC w-bodies form 1991-1993.

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"Item might be dangerous and cause death, do not use in a real car."
"Proper capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."

quote Garrett GT35r with a T4 turbine, compressor 82mm 56 trim, .70 a/r. Turbine 68mm 84 trim, .82 a/r. Maximum efficiency at 7psi of boost should be just above 80% from 4600rpm to 6800rpm, which is AWESOME. Few turbochargers even breach 75%!

Nice turbo...you have a lot of change to spare...lol!!
Anywayz can you clarify...why do you think you will get over 80% from this turbo @ 7psi...also are you using the T04S housing?

quote Originally posted by nocutt: [QUOTE] Garrett GT35r with a T4 turbine, compressor 82mm 56 trim, .70 a/r. Turbine 68mm 84 trim, .82 a/r. Maximum efficiency at 7psi of boost should be just above 80% from 4600rpm to 6800rpm, which is AWESOME. Few turbochargers even breach 75%!

Nice turbo...you have a lot of change to spare...lol!!
Anywayz can you clarify...why do you think you will get over 80% from this turbo @ 7psi...also are you using the T04S housing?[/QUOTE]

It is a fully ball bearing turbo at the PERFECT size, so it allows for very high adiabatic efficiencies. It will run over 78% from 5psi to 16!

I am using a T4 turbine housing, not sure if it is a 's' or not.

And I don't have change to spare, my dad does...lol...This is primarily his car, and he is paying for its turbo kit. I just get to install it, dyno it, and redline it!

I know this turbo well...it is a 61mm turbo..etc, etc. It is more of a 'pressure wheel' I like to call it...because it will take a lot of pressure and still keep efficiency high (inherent design of the so-called GT wheel). However you will have to push over 10psi to get it in there...my question was about the comp housing for a particular reason...the turbo can come with either a T04E or T04S housing...I wanted to know the specifics?
Trust me it is a nice unit...just to much to spend...and hope you don't break it...plenty to fixing too

quote Originally posted by nocutt: I know this turbo well...it is a 61mm turbo..etc, etc. It is more of a 'pressure wheel' I like to call it...because it will take a lot of pressure and still keep efficiency high (inherent design of the so-called GT wheel). However you will have to push over 10psi to get it in there...my question was about the comp housing for a particular reason...the turbo can come with either a T04E or T04S housing...I wanted to know the specifics? Trust me it is a nice unit...just to much to spend...and hope you don't break it...plenty to fixing too

Well its advantages will still be seen at 7psi, the main advantage isn't the overall high AE, it is the INSTANT spool. There is minimal lag time. It should have full boost by 3000rpm, and still hold 80% AE all the way to 7000rpm, which is amazing.

The compressor is a GT35, the GT series use their own compressor, it isn't a T04, but the turbines are not unique, they are just either T3s with 4-bolt flanges, T3s with 5-bolt internal wastegate flanges, or a T4, and I will be getting the T4.

That turbo is way too big. I would look at a GT2871R (if you like Garret) or a TD05H super 16g or TD05 18g.

But if you want to see a big turbo... How about my friend Paul's hooptie:

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 08-26-2005).]

The GT2871R and GT3071R are still pretty small turbos. These are commonly used on 2.0L Nissan SR20DET engines.

The turbo, at least on the cold side is too big. Namely, the compressor exducer size...82mm?

Anyway, good luck with the project, I hope you get some great #'s.

Nate

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.
You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped mine's mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 08-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by tampalinc: The GT2871R and GT3071R are still pretty small turbos. These are commonly used on 2.0L Nissan SR20DET engines.

Small(er) turbos are always better for a street driven car than a large one. Period.

As long as the small turbo doesn't limit upper rpm airflow and efficiency.

quote Well its advantages will still be seen at 7psi, the main advantage isn't the overall high AE, it is the INSTANT spool. There is minimal lag time. It should have full boost by 3000rpm, and still hold 80% AE all the way to 7000rpm, which is amazing. The compressor is a GT35, the GT series use their own compressor, it isn't a T04, but the turbines are not unique, they are just either T3s with 4-bolt flanges, T3s with 5-bolt internal wastegate flanges, or a T4, and I will be getting the T4.

LOL!! you aren't listening for some reason...I know this turbo like the palm of my hand....listen are you running a T04E or T04s HOUSING...and you will NOT get full boost @ 3K with this turbo running a manual, small diplacement motor + t4 housing...trust me...BB or not?
I am asking because the housing is a big issue if you want to enjoy the RPM you are ascribing....

quote Originally posted by crzyone: As long as the small turbo doesn't limit upper rpm airflow and efficiency.

Obviously... thats the whole point, guess I should of been more specific. I deal with turbo engines on a daily basis. I get all kinds of stupid calls about "can I put <insert super big turbo here> on my RB25"? People need to get the bigger is better thing out of there head. Sure a T88 may be fine on a race car but a street driven car is a total dog till about 5,500+ rpm. Thats why I suggested a GT2871R for his TDC engine. It will spool below WELL below 4k and give the TDC a killer mid/top end punch. If he wants to help the bottom end of the TDC (where it needs it the most) a GT28RS would do just fine and that will spool closer to 3k than the one he is currently looking at. There are tons of variables when it comes to spool. There is no set turbo A will spool by X rpm. Smaller is better!

I'm not disagreeing. In a racing type situation a motor will stay above 3000rpm except for a brief period in 1st gear. If you are talking about a turbo for a daily driver, then yes, smaller is better. If you are building a performance or race car, a small bit of lag off the line isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Big turbos also equal better fuel mileage. The turbo won't be making boost under normal acceleration, or until a bit higher rpm. SRT-4s running a T3/4 50 trim get better fuel economy than the stock turbo, even running bigger injectors. They do get some lag off the line or in a high gear roll, but thats normal. If you experience lag, drop a gear or 2.

We think alike. I agree with you. My modded WRX gets about 220 miles (or less) to a tank when I drive it but if the wife drives it she gets near 300 she is hardly ever in the boost. The WRX has a tiny turbo (TD04 13T) and makes boost as low as 2,000rpm but It can be driven and not hit boost if you pay attention to load and throttle position. Its all in how you drive.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 08-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Obviously... thats the whole point, guess I should of been more specific. I deal with turbo engines on a daily basis. I get all kinds of stupid calls about "can I put <insert super big turbo here> on my RB25"? People need to get the bigger is better thing out of there head. Sure a T88 may be fine on a race car but a street driven car is a total dog till about 5,500+ rpm. Thats why I suggested a GT2871R for his TDC engine. It will spool below WELL below 4k and give the TDC a killer mid/top end punch. If he wants to help the bottom end of the TDC (where it needs it the most) a GT28RS would do just fine and that will spool closer to 3k than the one he is currently looking at. There are tons of variables when it comes to spool. There is no set turbo A will spool by X rpm. Smaller is better!

Sizing a turbo like this would be stupid. I din't buy a 3.4 DOHC vehicle for the low end, I bought it for pick up at 3500. By turboeing it for low end, you are basically hurting the motor where it likes to perform best, on the high end.

The 3.4 has more than enough low end torque for my tastes, and this turbo, the GT35r, which is fully ball bearing, will have full boost by 3000, building boost above 2400. This, along with its flawless performance to redline and beyond, is why I chose it. TimG, who has turbocharged 3 of these, agrees that it is the perfect turbocharger for my application. I don't think bigger is better, that is why I am buying the turbo that is sized perfectly, to stay efficient, and flow air, at 7000rpm. I ran compressor maps and everything.

And this motor has more than enough low end to drive off boost comfortably, it isn't like the turbo DSMs that are annoying and a traffic hazard off boost. I have over 160 front wheel torque from 2000rpm to 6, that is more than enough. I am all about the high end, I don't see the point in modding this motor for low end when it was made to go high.

...don't ASSume comp maps as gospel...although I agree the GT maps come real close to real world...come close is the key word here...
You see a GT35R has too comp housings a T04E which is 3" in/ 2" out versus the T04S which is 4" in/ 2.5" out...now know one is doubting the capability of this turbo especially with the aforementioned engine...however SUGGESTING or since you put it that timG says its fine...then I cannot argue with you but perhaps with him...
This is a full fledged T4...even with BB...you cannot defy phyics; both the cold and hot wheels are pretty large...it has to overcome its own inertia...couple this with a stick shift...my friend if you get full boost by 3K it will be amazing...Now if you want top-end then fine...this is the unit for you 101%...but don't tell us otherwise

I was born at night...not last night!!

quote Originally posted by nocutt: ...don't ASSume comp maps as gospel...although I agree the GT maps come real close to real world...come close is the key word here... You see a GT35R has too comp housings a T04E which is 3" in/ 2" out versus the T04S which is 4" in/ 2.5" out...now know one is doubting the capability of this turbo especially with the aforementioned engine...however SUGGESTING or since you put it that timG says its fine...then I cannot argue with you but perhaps with him... This is a full fledged T4...even with BB...you cannot defy phyics; both the cold and hot wheels are pretty large...it has to overcome its own inertia...couple this with a stick shift...my friend if you get full boost by 3K it will be amazing...Now if you want top-end then fine...this is the unit for you 101%...but don't tell us otherwise I was born at night...not last night!!

Ok I understand now! But I havn't seen a GT35r yet with the e housing, every one I've seen is 4in in, 2.5 out, and that is one I'm getting, so it is an 's'.

I agree this turbo would be big, if not for the ball bearings. Ball bearings consistently lower spool times by over 1/2-1 second, and lower the rpm by 1000!!! We probably don't need it, but we set aside $3000 for this project, so IMHO there is no better place to spend the excess than on a kicka$$ turbo. It is a rather large turbo, much too big if it wasn't BB, but we are relying that to keep it spooling fast.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Sizing a turbo like this would be stupid. I din't buy a 3.4 DOHC vehicle for the low end, I bought it for pick up at 3500. By turboeing it for low end, you are basically hurting the motor where it likes to perform best, on the high end. The 3.4 has more than enough low end torque for my tastes, and this turbo, the GT35r, which is fully ball bearing, will have full boost by 3000, building boost above 2400. This, along with its flawless performance to redline and beyond, is why I chose it. TimG, who has turbocharged 3 of these, agrees that it is the perfect turbocharger for my application. I don't think bigger is better, that is why I am buying the turbo that is sized perfectly, to stay efficient, and flow air, at 7000rpm. I ran compressor maps and everything. And this motor has more than enough low end to drive off boost comfortably, it isn't like the turbo DSMs that are annoying and a traffic hazard off boost. I have over 160 front wheel torque from 2000rpm to 6, that is more than enough. I am all about the high end, I don't see the point in modding this motor for low end when it was made to go high.

Dude I'll tell you what. Buy what ever turbo you want. But you are smoking CRACK if you think a GT35R will hit full boost by 3k rpm. No freggen doubt about it. The GT30-10 wont even hit full boost till the early 4k mark. I build and tune Skylines, Cosworths, EVO's, Subaru's and Ferrari's for a living. Ever built a 900hp 2.6L Skyline? How about a 700hp Supercharged and FI 348 Ferrari V8? No.... OK then.
Nuf said.

Steven

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'02 USDM Subaru WRX, 5MT, Loaded, TurboXS FMIC, TurboXS short ram, Perrin turbo inlet pipe, Helix up-pipe, 3" turbo back exhaust, 17" UK wheels wrapped in S03's, Prodrive springs, Scanmaster 3, Autometer EGT and boost gauge.
232awhp 296fwhp/284ftlbs on the stock turbo!

1990 Nissan Skyline R32 GTS-T type M, R33 GTS-T turbo, NISMO 90mm cat-back, HKS down-pipe, Custom lead pipe/decat pipe combo, GTR front strut tower brace, HKS induction, NISMO 280KPH gauge cluster, DAWES devices A/F meter, Auto Meter boost gauge, Oil catch can and custom FMIC. 480whp RB25DET swap in progress.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 08-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Dude I'll tell you what. Buy what ever turbo you want. But you are smoking CRACK if you think a GT35R will hit full boost by 3k rpm. No freggen doubt about it. The GT30-10 wont even hit full boost till the early 4k mark. I build and tune Skylines, Cosworths, EVO's, Subaru's and Ferrari's for a living. Ever built a 900hp 2.6L Skyline? How about a 700hp Supercharged and FI 348 Ferrari V8? No.... OK then. Nuf said. Steven

full boost maybe not but I don't think he is talking about more than 7-10psi and I think that would be a different story, even at 3k

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still plays with cars..

quote I agree this turbo would be big, if not for the ball bearings. Ball bearings consistently lower spool times by over 1/2-1 second, and lower the rpm by 1000!!!

...LOL!! if you say so...but that isn't science...that is a marketing scheme you either picked up as fact or hoping for
regardless you should be able to do some hurt at the top-end...make sure you have injectors and I mean injectors...because that thing flows like a muthalova...

Kameo whats up? So how is the car so far?

[This message has been edited by nocutt (edited 08-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by nocutt: Kameo whats up? So how is the car so far?

Well let's just say it still has some bugs that are still being worked out, Or you could say that I'm still paying for my Turbo education "CHA-ching!"

I plan on running a GT3071r on my 3.4l DOHC car. This turbo is even a bit big (flowing up to 500 HP at peak efficiency). I think the GT35r is overkill for your application. Get what you want, but I don't think you need a turbo that supports 600+ HP. Especially at the ~7psi of boost you plan to run.

quote Originally posted by nocutt: ...LOL!! if you say so...but that isn't science...that is a marketing scheme you either picked up as fact or hoping for regardless you should be able to do some hurt at the top-end...make sure you have injectors and I mean injectors...because that thing flows like a muthalova... Kameo whats up? So how is the car so far?

I know it can flow a lot, but a GT30r is going to flow the same amount of air if both are at 7psi on the same motor. So how will this hurt my top end?

The compressor map puts me RIGHT at peak efficiency, and above the surge line, at many boost points, including 7. According to the maps, and the person with the most experience on this motor, he says the Gt35r is perfect. He is currently running a T0460e, and says it is definately on the small side, yet he is still unimpressed with its spool time, it definately lags. After driving this car, I agree with him.

Here is a map...

From this map...you will be "leaking" @ 7psi...BIG TIME...

quote ...The compressor map puts me RIGHT at peak efficiency, and above the surge line, at many boost points, including 7. According to the maps, and the person with the most experience on this motor, he says the Gt35r is perfect...

Let me be honest with you for a second...it is one thing to say I want this turbo for top end ONLY...because that is what you want...it is however an entirely different concept at least from where I am standing to even say what I quoted from above. You have prooven nothing but use an opinion to base it on fact...Plenty ppl here will disagree with you...because enough at least run turbos (if not all) smaller than what you have chosen...

quote ...He is currently running a T0460e, and says it is definately on the small side, yet he is still unimpressed with its spool time, it definately lags. After driving this car, I agree with him.

...can you proove to us how the 60-e is on the small side...especially if it lags?

We'll just forget that you aren't even using the right map...

I want the turbo for midrange and high end. Below 4000 means nothing to me.

Not enough people have turboed this motor to know. There are only liek 4 or 5 3.4s running, and running correctly, with turbochargers. 1 or 2 are in Fieros, the other 2 are in w-bodies.

TimG has more experience than anyone when it comes to turbocharging this engine.

Any turbocharger is going to lag, even BB ones. THey just lag much less, it takes a lot less to get them up to speed. Even the super-small T25 in the TGP lags.

Ok so I am going to use a to4b 70 cold side, and a 82 hot side, with a stage three wheel. I got this from a firend. He says the 2.3 ford guys use this on their cars and get full boosr by 3k. I have heard this thing will not give me boost by 3k. Why? I think my heads are way more efficient than the 2.3 turocoupe heads, and I have two more cylinders and 1 more liter of displacement.

I am with Aaron on the mid to high end, I dont know much about his turbo though. I mainly wanted mines to not be a restriction on the top end, because I like to push all the way through the rpms.

quote Originally posted by XzotikGT: Ok so I am going to use a to4b 70 cold side, and a 82 hot side, with a stage three wheel. I got this from a firend. He says the 2.3 ford guys use this on their cars and get full boosr by 3k. I have heard this thing will not give me boost by 3k. Why? I think my heads are way more efficient than the 2.3 turocoupe heads, and I have two more cylinders and 1 more liter of displacement. I am with Aaron on the mid to high end, I dont know much about his turbo though. I mainly wanted mines to not be a restriction on the top end, because I like to push all the way through the rpms.

I'm not sure but that turbo should be wayyy small!

quote Originally posted by XzotikGT: Ok so I am going to use a to4b 70 cold side, and a 82 hot side, with a stage three wheel. I got this from a firend. He says the 2.3 ford guys use this on their cars and get full boosr by 3k. I have heard this thing will not give me boost by 3k. Why? I think my heads are way more efficient than the 2.3 turocoupe heads, and I have two more cylinders and 1 more liter of displacement. I am with Aaron on the mid to high end, I dont know much about his turbo though. I mainly wanted mines to not be a restriction on the top end, because I like to push all the way through the rpms.

Importantly what is the compressor wheel spec? A stage 3 wheel is a turbonetics designation...you are set on the hot side...we need to know what the wheel in front is...then find out what your HP goals are...but at this point, it is a BIG HYBRID T4/t3!!

Pls can we stick to what we know?

quote Originally posted by Aaron: TimG has more experience than anyone when it comes to turbocharging this engine...

So say you...does he feel that way...

quote ...Even the super-small T25 in the TGP lags.

I have seen two in my life and I remember specifically one of 'em would make boost at IDLE!! again you are throwing opinions as facts...I am not here to argue but I just don't seem to understand your logic?

quote We'll just forget that you aren't even using the right map...

then can you provide us with a map you used...pls we are here to learn???