I have an 2.8 bored 30 over and I am getting spark and fuel. It is turning over but not starting. What am I missing or needs to be done?? Thanks, Dave.

Check the timing, make sure when #1 is at TDC the distriubtor rotor is pointing at #1 plug. Recheck the firing order as well.
You may have the distriubtor in 180* out of rotation also.

i have done that also, it justs done stumble or act like its going to start. The guy who put the cam and crank in put the cam marking at the six oclock position instead of the 12 position like the book says.

quote Originally posted by 88formttp: i have done that also, it justs done stumble or act like its going to start. The guy who put the cam and crank in put the cam marking at the six oclock position instead of the 12 position like the book says.

well, that really doesnt matter, turn the crank around once, and it'll be on the other side. but, the tabs on the guise make it easy to get the gears/chain in the RIGHT position. which is crank tooth at 12:00 & cam mark at 6:00. this is TDC #4 - just to add to the confusion. when both are at 12:00, thats TDC #1. anyways - if you got spark & fuel, next is compression. but, it may be you just need verify the firing order, and then to jockey the distributor around untill it fires. but if this is a new cam, you cant spend to much time cranking - it puts ALOT of stress on the cam & can ruin the break in.

The cam was put in at 6 oclock which is the setting for the number 4 cyl to be at top dead center. The number one cyl. was at tdc when the cam was put in for number 4 at tdc. IS the cam off or not?????

The cam turns at half crankshaft speed. so if it is installed to have both valves closed in the #4 cylinder when the #4 is at TDC, then the next rotation of the crank will have both valves in the # 1 cylinder closed when the #1 is at TDC. No, the cam isn't in wrong.

thank you all for the info so far. I didnt want to have to take the motor out and redo the cam if it was wrong. Thanks for any more info also, Dave

Problem on my V6 when ebing built last year. Had the plug wires on wrong. Stupid mistake, but easy to make on your first build. Noticed after about 2 hours of swearing.

Cam timing should have been set with both the crank and the cam gear marks set pointing straight up. If the cam was put in upside down no problem, just turn the crank one time. Since the cam turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank turning the crank one time will set the cam in the proper position. At this stage since the engine is assembled, just turn the crank by hand/wrench until you feel pressure coming out the number one plug hole, then continue turning the crank no more than 1/2 turn until the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is aligned with the 10° mark on the timing tab. At this point the crank/piston/cam timing should be set correctly.

Then, turn the distributor until the poles on the two star wheels are aligned exactly. Then, whatever pole on the distributor cap the rotor is under, this is now the number one cylinder firing position. Run the number one plug to this pole. The remaining cylinders should be connected in the normal firing order, 1-2-3-4-5-6 clockwise.

At this point it should fire. If not, look at the MAP sensor wiring and vacuum tubing to make sure there's no breaks.

JazzMan

The cam sprocket being set at either the 12:00 or 6:00 position is not an issue either way is correct so long as the crank index is at the 12:00 position. (I set all mine at 6:00 when building) I just keep track of how many times I turn the crank when adjusting the valves so I end up right.
Are hte ignition componets new as well? I think I would check them and suspect the mag pickup coil.

The pick up coil is new. The car ran before I took it apart to fix the internals. It had a rod nock do to no oil galley plugs on the timing gear side of the block. The only thing different is that the cam was put in at the six oclock position instead of at 12. I am redoing the cam within the next two days. I am droping out the motor tomorrow and when It is done I will let you know if it made a difference. Acorrding to the chiltons manual if the cam mark was at six oclock the # 4 cyl should be at top dead center. BUT the #1 was not #4. I will let you know how it goes. Everything else has been checked or tryed in the last three days. The only thing different from the time it ran before was the cam is in different. Thanks again, Dave

quote Originally posted by 88formttp: The pick up coil is new. The car ran before I took it apart to fix the internals. It had a rod nock do to no oil galley plugs on the timing gear side of the block. The only thing different is that the cam was put in at the six oclock position instead of at 12. I am redoing the cam within the next two days. I am droping out the motor tomorrow and when It is done I will let you know if it made a difference. Acorrding to the chiltons manual if the cam mark was at six oclock the # 4 cyl should be at top dead center. BUT the #1 was not #4. I will let you know how it goes. Everything else has been checked or tryed in the last three days. The only thing different from the time it ran before was the cam is in different. Thanks again, Dave

Don't take out the cam! There's no reason to even pop the timing cover here. It's just wasted work that will increase the chance of introducing a coolant leak or other problem.

If you are sure you put the cam in with the marks straight up or down on both the crank and the cam gears, it doesn't matter which, then your cam timing is fine. Just turn the crank like I described above and that way you'll find TDC on #1, then either re-stab the distributor to get the wires in the right order or just rearrange the plug wires like I described. Either way works fine. Removing the cam or messing with the timing gears here is just wasted rework that accomplishes absolutely nothing.

JazzMan

The Jazzman is correct, if the crank was indexed at the 12:00 position.

The next thing that comes to mind is the valve lash adjustment, was it completed at the correct positions?
Does the engine crank smoothly or does it stumble at times?
Have you done a compression check?
Any back firing happening either through the TB or exhaust?
When indexing the distributor did you use the widest mark on the harmonic balancer? There are 3 cuts on those things and only one of those is wide. That is the one you need to use.

What cam did you put in it? I assume it's bigger than stock and if so, did you have the spring seats lowered and use longer, stronger springs? The stock heads weren't designed for more than .400 lift. Depending on wear and how much the valves and seats were ground, you might squeeze a .450 cam in without reaching spring bind but, the springs will be too weak to keep the valve train from bouncing. Anything over .450 and the cam won't last more than a couple thousand miles. Most engines will start with this condition, though I don't understand how, with the springs completely compressed and the cam trying to deliver more lift.

All of the responses are good. One comment, if you have hydraulic lifters, perhaps you have over tightened the pre-load, thereby not causing the valves to completely close and seal. Check the compression.

I did a compression test and all were good. Also, the heads were cut down for the springs and the motor ran before with the same setup as it is now. I had two galley plugs missing before which gave me no oil pressure. So I put new ring, bearings, cam and crankshaft put in. The block was completely checked also. So I put it all back together and it will not run. The only different thing on the car now is that it has oil pressure and the cam was put in at the point where the #4 cyl should have been top dead center. But it was put in with the #1 cyl at top dead center.

if you have fuel (at the cyl), spark (at the plugs) & compression, theres only one thing left - igntion timing
verify the spark plugs wires with the firing order. hand crank to TDC #1. take dist cap off, and make sure its pointing towards #1. verify spark plugs wires again. loosen dist hold down. try cranking, while 2nd person moves dist around untill it fires.

wiring is right the dist. has been tried tdc and 180 out. compression is fine also. I am dropping the motor out tonight. I am going to put the cam and crank in the right place for the marks. Once again the cam was put in if the #4 cyl was at TDC. But the #1 cyl was. That is why I feel it need to be changed. I look also at my 88 fiero white bible and the pic in there shows it is wrong. Chiltons has the same pic if any one has checked yet. Thanks again for all the help, Dave

#4 is at top stroke on the exhaust cycle when #1 is at TDC compression (fire) stroke.
That is the difference between indexing the cam at the twelve o'clock or the six o'clock positions.
I would look for any other problem like grounds, fuse links, fuse box ect.
Is the engine flooding (wet plugs) when trying to start? If not check the fuse box injector fuses.
Cold start valve hooked up?

Yes the injectors are wet. The grounds have all been cleaned of rust and tight. cold start is hooked up.

[This message has been edited by 88formttp (edited 06-01-2005).]

well it was the cam gear was sitting at around 7 or 8 oclock on the cam instead of six, and the crank was dead on at 12 oclock. Thank you all for your help it always is greatly appreciated, Dave. P.S. I will finish and try again to start it tomorrow night.

quote Originally posted by 88formttp: well it was the cam gear was sitting at around 7 or 8 oclock on the cam instead of six, and the crank was dead on at 12 oclock. Thank you all for your help it always is greatly appreciated, Dave. P.S. I will finish and try again to start it tomorrow night.

YIKES! smack the guy who installed it! thats not even close! I was worried about maybe a tooth or 2 being off from him doing it 12:00 & 12:00, instead of using the marks on the chain guide....

It is finally running once it was on time right it started right up with no leaks or problems as of yet. Thanks everyone for the help and info, Dave

okay my turn....i installed my cam at 6 and the crank at 12 like the manual shows. My engine thumps when I start it and it won't rev over like 4k. You guys said I should line up the timing mark at the crank to 10* then check and see if my rotor is pointing at the #1 plug...right? If it is then i take it my engine is just screwed? But if it is pointing the opposite way I should just turn the distributor until it is pointing at #1 and it should run fine? I am running a comp cams260 .440 lift with the rest of the K KIT. If you I said is right I will go right now and check.

Actually, it doesn't matter where the rotor points as long as the number one spark plug wire is on the distributor pole over the rotor while the number one cylinder is at top dead center (TDC) compression, and the rest of the spark plug wires are run 2-3-4-5-6 clockwise from the number one. However, installing the distributor so the rotor is under the correct distributor pole as from the factory makes routing the wires a whole lot easier.

If your distributor was 180° then the engine wouldn't run at all. It would just crank and occasionally backfire out the exhaust.

JazzMan

hello and thanks for the replies. The person who put the cam in place didnt line up the gear just some mark on the cam which was wrong. I had to pull the motor and timing chain cover to prove to the person who by accident but the cam in the wrong place.

So in the future when I install my cam. Is the cam and crank timing marks supposed to both point at 12 or the cam at 6 and the crank at 12? The both at 12 don't sound right at all.

The next cam I install I will turn the cam until I see the number one valves both closed, then turn the mark until it's either straight up or down, whichever is closest. Then I'll turn the crank until the number one piston is at TDC, then I'll install the chain.

JazzMan