An interesting read on Synthetic oil life study between Mobile 1 and Amsoil. 14,000 miles on a single change and remained within tolerances (except the Amsoil thickening)

Mobil 1
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Amsoil
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

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Rich AIM: ONE FAST 2M8:
86se V6
Gold 86se 355 SBC,
92 BMW 325i

Thank you for sharing that with us, that was some very good info.

Nice read, thanks for posting it.

In case you missed this thread, another nice read. Would you also post these links to that thread?

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055214.html

yeah the oil may be able to go 7,500 ; 12,000 or 25,000 miles but what about the filter? filters havent really changed since the 3,000 mile rule. Sure theres Mobil 1 oil filters to match the oil but unless you make one big filter, the same size can only hold so much crap

in the article it says that changing the filrer is key to getting longer life out of the oil.

I use Castrol Syn in all my cars. Have no reason to change when its worked perfectly for me. I do use Mobil 1 filter and change it once a year (between 7,000-10,000 miles). I use the larger 1 quart filter ( I think its #201) , instead of the puny one recommended.

I use mobil 1 and a quality filter, an change it about twice a year.
10w30 for winter, 15w50 for summer

Keeps my engine happy.

OK, this is just my opinion, I don't expect anyone to agree with it or change their thinking on oils from it, but it's just the logic I use.

I have no bad opinions of full synthetic oils. I used some at one point, but don't any longer. Not that I found anything mechanically wrong with them, but I wasn't comfortable with the radically extended change intervals and if you're not going to do that then they become price prohibitive.

One of the functions of oil is to trap and hold foreign particles and keep them from embedding in the bearing surfaces. Oil does a lot more than that. It lubricates and is a major player in engine cooling as well. But ONE of the functions is to trap and hold foreign matter. This is true of ALL oil, synthetic or "normal". Not only are things like dirt trapped, but acids, carbon, and many other things that are a by-product of normal engine operation are caught up in there as well.

The filter really only removes the "big" (relatively speaking) stuff that's in the oil. All of the smaller contaminants are still being flushed around in there with the oil. To me, the only thing I was comfortable with was to get it out of there on a regular basis.

I know, this is pretty old school thinking and oil technology has advanced. But I'm still not comfortable with it. I change my oil every 3,000 miles along with a filter. Period. If I ran a synthetic, I'd still do it. I want those contaminants, especially the acids, out of my engine. I generally begin a new engine with Diesel engine oil for about 500 miles or so because even more so than regular oil, it has an ability to trap and hold the particles. Any contaminants that are in the engine are captured and removed with that first oil change. Then I go to a "regular" multi-viscosity oil for changes after that.

Filters are another subject open to debate. I've never opened up the Mobil 1 filter so I can't speak to that, but I've opened up Fleetguard, AC/Delco, Hastings, Wix, Fram, and a bunch of "brand name" filters. I really prefer Fleetguard. They are the primary manufacturer to Cat, John Deere, Case/IH, and lots of other industrial equipment. They have about 30% more media in them than a comparable Hastings filter and a much better designed and robust relief valve. My second choice is Wix (which makes filters for Carquest) and they're not a bad filter either, from what I've seen (NOT their economy line, though, they are really junk).

I keep my vehicles and equipment a LONG time. I'm not saying that using Synthetics is "bad" or "wrong", just that I've had great luck with the way I've been doing things now so I have non reason to change. Our '98 Riviera had about 20K on it when we bought it and is almost ready to roll over 200K without every having an engine problem other than plug wires and belts. My '84 service truck with a 6.2L diesel ran almost 400K miles without ever touching the bottom end. My farm equipment routinely has in excess of 10,000 hours before any real engine work needs to be done. Many of my trucks and pickups have over 150K with no engine problems.

For those of you experimenting with synthetics, my hat's off to you, but for me, I'm going to stick with what I know works. A good quality oil changed every 3,000 miles with a good quality filter changed at the same time assures me that, at least with respect to lubrication, the engine will last as long or much longer than the engineers ever designed it to last.

John Stricker

PS: The link is very interesting and I appreciate $rich$ posting it.

Good point, John. Every fluid has a saturation point. If you saturate the oil with gunk, and then add more gunk, some of it will precipitate out. The oil stops absorbing gunk, because it's saturated. I'm surprised the guys at Paradise Garage didn't take this into account.

The gunk isn't very picky about where it precipitates, either. Any place where the oil can pool (in the oil pan, cyl heads, certain spots in the crankcase) is a possible "gunk trap".

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 02-08-2005).]

jstricker, you have a good point, and as far as having to tear down the engine to examine wear is a good point. But valvoline has for years said send in a sample of your engine oil and they can tell what condition your engine is in. so I don't know. My son's Corvette has a oil sampler in the engine and tells you when the oil needs changing. (oil contamination). Engineering has gone far beyond my knowledge, and I do know on the older cars you were very lucky to get 60,000 miles without a overhaul. nowday's you get 200,000 without a overhaul. so things have changed for the best.
Don

synthetic oils ARE VERY GOOD IN TURBOS
they limit cokeing of the oil by the high temp turbo

I agree the most ware is in the break in time on a new motor
and you should dump the oil early 100 then 500 at first
or after a rebuild tooo

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

one thing i have wondered, is why hsnt any company started putting magnets in the oil filters to trap stuff as it gets pumped through the filter
i think a magnettic oil pdrain plug is a good idea and has been arround for years, and also some cars DO have magnets alredy placed in the oil pans my fiero had one in the ATF pan aswell, and there were some real fine shavings on it too!!
so why not have one in the filter??
i think that would be a great idea as a matter of fact, the next time i change my filter i think im gonna find some sort of magnet to place arround the outside of the filter to atleast thap small "Silt" inside that may be too fine to get filtered

whatcha think?

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Rich AIM: ONE FAST 2M8:
86se V6
Gold 86se 355 SBC,
92 BMW 325i

quote Originally posted by $Rich$: one thing i have wondered, is why hsnt any company started putting magnets in the oil filters to trap stuff as it gets pumped through the filter i think a magnettic oil pdrain plug is a good idea and has been arround for years, and also some cars DO have magnets alredy placed in the oil pans my fiero had one in the ATF pan aswell, and there were some real fine shavings on it too!! so why not have one in the filter?? i think that would be a great idea as a matter of fact, the next time i change my filter i think im gonna find some sort of magnet to place arround the outside of the filter to atleast thap small "Silt" inside that may be too fine to get filtered whatcha think?

LOOK OUT! Now that you've told us about your new plan, (On a public messageboard, even!) GM will hunt you down and destroy you! They will not tolerate their secret 'anti-magnet-in-oil-filter' plans being thwarted!

But yes, that sounds like a good plan. Have you thought about the fact that this plan will cause metal particles to accumulate near the magnet, and not evenly disperse throughout the filter? That may be a problem; maybe even clog things? Just a thought....

Steve

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: ...My son's Corvette has a oil sampler in the engine and tells you when the oil needs changing. (oil contamination).

I don't know about the one in the 'vette, but my wife's Trailblazer has a "change oil" light. The ECM calculates the condition of the oil based upon the number and length of trips, and how it's driven. It can't analyze the oil. It's just guessing.

Funkmaster, that is a good thought. I think a dimple about 1 inch in diameter and about one inch long in the end of the filter with the magnet in the end of the dimple. this would collect about 1 inch of particles. and not clog the filter. Lets send this to Fram as their Filters are not worth a sh*t anyway.
Don

A couple of points on oil analysis..............

I'm a big proponent of it and use it on a lot of my diesel engines. Any good lab will tell you that ONE sample of oil is almost worthless. The value of oil sampling comes in seeing and identifying changes in trends. For example, if I've sent in 7 samples each at a 100 hour oil change interval and the copper has been running, say, 90, then on sample 8 the copper jumps to 150, the lab will call and say hey, you need to send us another sample right now so we can verify this because you may be about to lose a rod or main bearing.

One sample standing by itself, especially after an engine rebuild, is pretty much useless as an indicator of what's going on inside the engine.

Your son's 'Vette doesn't have an oil sampler at all. What it does is the same thing the Caddy's do with the Northstar. The computer keeps track of things like engine temperature, how the engine has been run, when the last service was, etc., and then ESTIMATES when you need to change your oil by illuminating a light on the dash. Caddy got into trouble with this in the early Northstars by being too aggressive in determining when the oil needed changing and caused problems with stuck oil pressure relief valves and other build up problems in the motor. The parameters were later changed.

I'm not sure what you consider "old days" but I have a '72 Chevy pickup that I bought in '74 with 30K miles on it. It ran to 150,000 before I overhauled it and didn't need the crank turned or block bored. I honed it and rebuilt the heads, polished the crank, and now, another 120,000 miles later, it's still doing just fine.

I think that ANYONE can get extremely long life from almost ANY engine (NORMALLY) by doing regular maintenance, the most important being frequent regular oil changes, and most importantly DRIVING the engine so that it doesn't sit for long periods of time. When you drive them, drive them long enough to really get well into operating temperature.

The hardest things on any mechanical device, IMHO, is to have it sit unused and letting the lubrication become contaminated.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: jstricker, you have a good point, and as far as having to tear down the engine to examine wear is a good point. But valvoline has for years said send in a sample of your engine oil and they can tell what condition your engine is in. so I don't know. My son's Corvette has a oil sampler in the engine and tells you when the oil needs changing. (oil contamination). Engineering has gone far beyond my knowledge, and I do know on the older cars you were very lucky to get 60,000 miles without a overhaul. nowday's you get 200,000 without a overhaul. so things have changed for the best. Don

jstricker, I was thinking about the car's in the fifty's. Damm now I am telling my age. This was the days when you paid extra for a oil filter.
Don

Don,

YOU feel old? How about this, the first engine I ever helped dad rebuild was an IH flathead 6. I learned how to pour babbit bearings on that one.

(Still have the '48 IHC KB2 pickup we did it too, as well)

John Stricker

I feel better now
Don

To be honest, I don't recall for sure, but that sure sounds right. That was back when you didn't "spin" a rod bearing, you "burnt" a rod bearing. It was a 90 hp Green Diamond that they quit using in 1950 as they went to an overhead valve.

And yes, the oil filter was optional. This one happens to have the add on unit that used a roll of toilet paper as the media. Remember those??

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: John, I bet the firing order on that flathead 6 was 1-5-3-6-2-4 Don

mmm... oil.

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11207

You know john, I kinda like those old filters. you remove the top and pull out the old filter and put in another roll of charmin. no oil spill on the engine or floor. the old day's were good, but I will never tell anyone that the older car's were better than our new ones.
Don

I also remember oil filters of the 50s. Most cars in the early years didnt even have them at all. I had a chevy that had a setup that used a toilet paper roll. You just took off the lid, pulled it out and put in a new one. Also remember when manufacturers said you only had to change the filter every other oil change. (which is the reason they give you oil quanity numbers with/ without filter change)

(oops got beat out by the above)

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-08-2005).]

TP filters are still being made/sold. I remember having a Frantz on a car I had. Was an easy change. New tp in and a qt of oil. I never oil tested so I don't know if it actually does work. If it does filter as advertised it would be the thing with synth.
Here's a coupla links:

http://www.bypassfilter.com/faqs.htm

http://www.wefilterit.com/frantz_facts2.htm