ok heres the thing, i have spark, and i smell gas on the spark plugs when i take them out, but it won't run!!! this is a replacement engine that i put in, so i'm on the final stages of my engine swap and am excited to get it goin.

i used the distributor out of the old engine cause the pickup coil didn't look good on the newer engine, so i just changed the whole thing out since i know it all worked, i also have a new coil pack, and i swapped the wiring harness from the older engine, i made sure everything was aligned the same way when i put the dist. back in so i am almost possative that is in right, and the fuel pump runs when i turn the key on

i'm pretty sure the plug wires are on right, but i could be wrong, i did them in the same possitions as the pic in my manual, they're in order (1-6) but they might be 1 off or something

i dunno what to do, lol

Thanks in advance you ppl are sooo helpful,
Travis

i thought i knew how to deal w/ a no-start but

Is it trying to fire? backfiring?

It could be the way you put your dist in. Pull the dist cap, rotate the engine until the rotor under the dist is facing #1 cylinder on the cap. Pull #1 spark plug and that cylinder should be all the way at the top. Also, at that position, your timing mark on the harmonic balancer should be about 0°. If it isn't, get the timing mark to 0° and remove/adjust the dist so the rotor is facing #1 on the dist cap.

If that's ok, double check your plug wires as well.

If you have no clue about the prior condition of this engine. First thing to do is an engine compression test. While on timing, have someone crank the motor over, while you slightly move the distributor around, a few degrees, until you can hear it firing.

Other things to check is removing the exhaust and intake hose. There may be restrictions.

You can't just put a distributor in another engine by making sure it goes in like it was in the other engine. You need to find TDC ( Top Dead Center) of the enigne you are installing it in and set the distributor so the rotor is pointing to the number one cylinder post. This should be close enough to get the enigne started or at least firing, you then have to set the timing once the engine is warmed up.

alright so i turn the engine untill its at 0* and then make sure the rotor is facing #1 plug wire? does it need to be pointed at the contact on the cap? or just so that once it starts turnin it will hit that one first

Travis

engines need 4 things to run.
spark.
fuel.
compression.
timing.
in theory youve eliminated #s 1 and 2. that leaves 3 and 4. fortunately compression and timing are easy to check and give nice simple numerical values. if those are ok, go back and recheck 1 & 2. just because you have spark and fuel doesnt mean you have the right kind or amounts

A common problem some people do is think they're at TDC on the #1 cylinder but are actualy on the exhuast stroke of the piston. Double check that. What is your firing order? Check each piston on the compression stroke and alignment of the rotor and distributor.
My 2 cents.

------------------

To find TDC compression (there are two TDC, one compression and one exhaust) you take the number one plug out. That's the plug on the rear bank closest to the water pump end of the motor. With a wrench turn the motor until you feel strong air pressure coming out the spark plug hole by using your finger to block the hole. When you do then continue turning the engine no more than 1/2 turn until the wide groove on the harmonic dampener lines up with the 10° mark on the timing tab. At this point you should be able to clearly see the top of the piston right up at the spark plug hole. If not, then you've lined up one of the two narrower marks on the dampener instead of the main timing mark.

Now, install the distributor so that the rotor and base are oriented this way:

Note the relationship between the poles of the star-shaped wheels on the distributor shaft and the distributor base, the direction the rotor is pointed in relationship to the base, and the orientation of the distributor module connector sockets as they point to the lower left.

At this point the rotor will be directly under the #1 distributor cap pole. The firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 clockwise, where the cylinders are numbered right to left 1-3-5 on the rear bank and 2-4-6 on the forward bank. Here's how the wires will look when you're done:

Note, the three-wire plastic loom clips are still available from GM for a couple of bucks, Only the '88 cars had the third loom clip down in the neck of the intake manifold.

Once you get things set up like this you should be within a couple of degrees of the proper timing.

JazzMan

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 01-29-2005).]

wow, thats exactly what i needed, thanks for all the imput, i really appreciate it, my car would never run if it weren't for you ppl

Thanks, Travis

Bump... having this problem also.

------------------
-Kyle
Email: arte@sek-c.com
Aim: Littlechugger
1987 Notchback 4cyl. (Busted Tranny)
1992 Corsica 3.1L GT =P

Here's an interesting question.

How old is the fuel in your gas tank? When was the last time you changed the filter?

How does the motor sound when you crank it? Does it sound like there's compression? Does it lope a bit when you crank it, or does the starter just go WHIRRRRRR?

Did the "new" engine run before it was pulled from the donor vehicle?

Double-check, and then double-double check, the engine wiring harness. Make sure you have good grounds, too.

Ed

Does it fire at all, begin to run at all??? Or does it just turn over, with no hint it might start and run. The timing can be off quite a long ways, and it will still start. I had my 45 degrees advanced, and it would still start.

Are the plugs carbon fouled--black and sooty?

If we assume you have everything correct, but it immediately fouls the plugs and never runs on its own, it is possible that you have a problem with the MAP sensor. The Manifold Air Pressure sensor gives the computer (some of) the info it needs to set the fuel metering. If there is a problem with the lines to the sensor--either plugged or open to the atmosphere--it will not start and run. The computer thinks the throttle is wide open, and pours in the fuel. The engine may fire a couple times, but then the plugs wet-foul with all the excess gas. It won't fire again until the engines sits for a few hours and the gas evaporates, or you remove, dry and clean the plugs.

If the plugs are carbon fouled, clean and dry them, and try again. If it at least trys to start, you are on the right track.

This is an ugly scenario. It took me a very long time to find my problem, and it turned out to be a brand new MAP line that was plugged. So make sure the lines to the MAP are not plugged or cracked, and connected properly.

Was the spark a bright blue, loud pop?

Will it attempt to start if you dribble gas down the intake?

How low is battery voltage? The ECM will start acting funny below ten or eleven volts in many cars.

The basics are air, fuel, and spark. Sub categories are spark timing, fuel mixture. Gasoline has to burn if there's enough air present, and a spark. You should clean your plugs, they are undoubtedly fouled by now.

JazzMan

focus, travis.
describe your symptoms more exactly.
assuming the motor spins,
does it try to start at all?
does it start, then die?
does it backfire? out the throttle or exhaust?

charge your battery.
check for codes.
check for fat blue spark at all of your plugs.
check compression in all of your cylinders. 100 psi is low, although it should fire.
is it possible it's flooding? injectors stuck open?

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 01-30-2005).]

I have had the same exact problem- I know this sounds silly, but my problem was a plugged cat converter. I had spark, gas, messed with the timing and had the valvecover off (4 cyl) to check if the valves were moving. I had the EGR valve out to remove the valve cover and it was still out when I bumped over the starter- and it fired right up and ran. It blew the exhaust out of the hole where the ERG valve went! Its worth a try to drop the exhaust from the manifold(s) and try it. Good luck!

Nothing so humbling as the voice of experience. I doubt many of us would come up with THAT possibility!

I had this problem develop, even though you see spark doesnt mean its good enough to fire the engine.

Id say replace some cheap stuff, like the cap and rotor.. that ended up being my problem.

have someone turn it over while you open the throttle and spray starting fluid in there, you should get some kind of ignition, even if timing is off it will atleast backfire or pop.

well, i apreciate all your imput a lot, its narrowing things down

the spark i saw was not blue, it was orange

i did break 2 vacume lines and tried to fix them i will check if they go to the MAP sensor, that could very well be it

i have no cat but i'm glad you figured that out! lol i woulda never thought to look at a clogged exhaust

it turns over and it sounds to me like theres compression because its not a constant sound it sounds like my other engine did, this engine ran when it was taken out, (so i was told) and i put a new cap on, but i will get a new rotor, i know the ignition module works becuase it did on my other engine and thats the one i used,

i will check a few things later tonight, i gotta go to school right now, and then i got scholarship stuff to do (college prep has priority over my car)

i appreciate your help!
Travis

quote Originally posted by rims05: ok so i did EXACTLY what jazzman said and it still does the same thing, so heres what we have, 1. i saw spark last night when i took a plug out and grounded it while someone else cranked it, there was spark 2. i still smell gas (wet gas, so its not old) on the plugs when i pull them 3. i did what jazzman said and so it should be timed close enough to start i did a compression test on #1 and it came up a lil over 100, with a low battery i'm goin crazy, i'm givin it one more week before i have to invest in a daily driver, then i can actually have a ride while i'm workin on this, and take as much time as i need thanks again, Travis

How much is a little over 100 on the compression? and are the rest of the cylinders the same (withen a 5% difference)? It sounds to me like your compression is on the low side and your rings are not sealing properly to get the engine started.
I have run into each time I do a head gasket and it is a simple problem to solve, just put about 4-6 DROPS of oil in each spark plug hole and then do a compression check, you should be around 120 or so then. After that the engine should start, if not just be sure you rnot 180 degrees out on the distributor, jazzman covered that one well in his post.
A side note when checking compression, each time you do, unpluge the connectors that operates your fuel injectors, and disconnect the spark from your coil as well, if you have your fuel sprying while you are checking compression you may be "washing" the cylinders with gas which will lower your compression while you are checking the other cylinders. The spark is just something I like to do as well, something about oil in the cylinders and them getting spark while I am checking things, call me parinoid on this, but that is how I am.

quote Originally posted by rims05: the spark i saw was not blue, it was orange Travis

That's the problem, try a new coil, or perhaps it's the distributor/coil connectors that have corroded. Try spraying the connectors with electric cleaner spray first.

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: A side note when checking compression, each time you do, unpluge the connectors that operates your fuel injectors, and disconnect the spark from your coil as well,

It is not a good idea to disconnect the secondary wire from the coil. If you do that and crank the engine, the spark energy still has to go somewhere. If you are unlucky, it will fry your coil. A better bet is to disconnect the primary wires from the coil. Primary wires are the smaller wires, the bigger wire that looks just like a spark plug wire is the secondary.

coil is newish (200 miles old or so) i have a new cap, will get a new rotor, but all of it worked on the other engine, wires are new too, altho that doesn't say much now-a-days lol

the vacume lines were to the EGR i think, but they aren't to the map sensor, however i will switch this one out for the one on my old engine (MAP sensor)

i will also test spark again, once with the older coil pack and once with the newer one, man its great to have spare parts around! lol

thanks,
Travis

I FOUND IT!!! the "new" coil pack was bad, i put the one that came w/ the newer engine back in and it started up, it ran REALLY SLOW, but thats pry just timing

gotta go finish so i can drive it!!! thanks
Travis

damn, well it started once....

i only had the coil on by one bolt when it started the first time, i put it all the way back on and now it won't start again?? did i somehow blow the coil.... again? what could do that?

Travis

quote Originally posted by rims05: damn, well it started once.... i only had the coil on by one bolt when it started the first time, i put it all the way back on and now it won't start again?? did i somehow blow the coil.... again? what could do that? Travis

I had the same problem with one of my cars, turned out to be the clips (black and grey) that go on top of the coil had the lock tabs broken off and they were not makeing full contact.

awesome, thanks, i'll check them and make sure, where would i get new ones?

Travis

quote Originally posted by rims05: awesome, thanks, i'll check them and make sure, where would i get new ones? Travis

FieroStore sells them, also my local auto parts store has them, so I had a few choices. If your lucky you can just clip them from just any GM car in a junk yard that used a two clip ignition coil and solder them in.

well i got it to run, i replaced the MAP sensor and after a few VERY rough starts it runs now

i just need a new manifold for then side closest to the back window, (not the trunk)

thanks, Travis