I have read a few posts on here where people say that they have never put anything other than fully synthetic oil in their cars, and I really dont know anything about it so im just kind of wondering if it is really any better than regular oil and why? Not trying to say the people who have said that dont know what their talking about or anything, im just curious.

It will withstand heat much better that regular oil. Most oils will break down at 450*, synthetics can go to 600-650* . I would use it in a turbo, nitrous, supercharged car, but regular oils will be fine in most engines..........Paul

The better grade of oils work just as well if you change them regularly and if you aren't in really abusive climate. The synthetics are pretty popular in Canada for winter use.

The one thing I know for sure is that Dragway owners hate to get the synthetic oil dropped on their track. I heard one of them cursing the poor chap who lost his oil in a breakdown at the track. Apparently you can't clean it up with detergent.

Personally, I don't think a Fiero is going to break down a quality standard oil very fast and any good 5W30 will do the job.

Just my two cents and what do I know?

Arn

Yes, synth is better in just about every way.

Yes, it is better. Yes, it costs a lot more money. Yes, standard oil is just fine in the Fiero.

Sort of depends on how much money you want to spend. Modern oil is totally fine in the engine. Synthetic is also just fine, and even a little better.

http://www.valvoline.com/synpower/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20011002sb

thats a n article from Valvoline all about what makes Synthetic Oil better. Its a good read you should check it out.

You can leave it in longer then regular oil
It protects the engine better then dino.

Sure it costs like 5X as much. Ill pay more then that anyday to get the best in my babe

For the protection, it's worth it. For the cleanliness, it's worth it. For the cost, spin on new filter at 3500 miles and run it for 7000. Synth doesn't really go bad. Just keep a new filter on it.

It is worth it.

TK

quote Originally posted by TK: For the protection, it's worth it. For the cleanliness, it's worth it. For the cost, spin on new filter at 3500 miles and run it for 7000. Synth doesn't really go bad. Just keep a new filter on it. It is worth it. TK

I am wondering if you couldn't double the milage filter change intervals. Here's why, Consumers Reports did a taxicab dino oil change study in NYC and found no wear differances between the cabs changed at 3K and those changed at 7K.

"The testers placed freshly rebuilt engines in 75 New York taxis and then ran them for nearly two years, with each cab racking up 60,000 miles, placing different brands and weights in different cars and changing the oil at 3,000 miles in half the cars and 6,000 in the other half. At the conclusion of the test period, the engines were torn down, measured and inspected. The conclusions: Regardless of brand of oil or weight, no measurable differences could be observed in engine wear. Furthermore, there was no difference among cars which had oil changed at the shorter or longer interval."

http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Oiltest.html

http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm

That would make filter changes/top-off at 7K, 14K and an oil/filter change at 21K. That makes the cost of using synthetic quite low.

well heres a testimate to its usefullness. Car sat in a garage for 10 years without prep. had synthetic oil in it. started just fine later, no seize up or anything. works well.

I change my synthetic every 20000 miles with no problems back in Alaska. The only problem was when my wife hit something puttin a large hole in the oil pan and drove the car untell it just quit. How far did she drive it. I don't know, but there was no oil stain leading up to the car.
Almost made it to 200,000 miles,on Mobil One, darn....

I agree. It's just that little voice in my head that makes me change it. I causally change the synth around 5000 and don't sweat it if I go over some. Three cars have oil change calcs so I follow those. They come in between 5k and 7k depending on the driving conditions.

I

is synthetic oil better absolutely!! can you go longer between oil changes.... yes.... do i personally?? absolutely not!! in fact i also have a mini cooper s that calls for syn oil changes every 16000 km. the longest i have left it is for 8000km, usually done every 4 - 5000. a few extra dollars is worth the peace of mind. the fiero before the rebuild had the syn oil change done every 4000 km. but then again ive been told that i am extemely anal with my cars. but i do have a question regarding syn oil in rebuilt angines.... should the engine be broken in with syn or a reg high grade oil?

have been told that if you have any slow oil leaks, the synthetics will find them and leave much faster than reg oil.

That's true. In fact if you have no leaks now it might start since it will tend to clean off the sludge that's sealing the leaks now.

That is a downside.

quote Originally posted by fritz_17: should the engine be broken in with syn or a reg high grade oil?

New or rebuilt engines should be broken in with *regular*! Synthetic oil won't allow stuff to be properly lubricated and seated. Run regular first. Maybe one of these guys can tell you how many miles. I seem to remember that for a rebuilt engine, you should drive the car slow and easy, not going over 50 or so miles per hour, then change the oil and filter. I'm not sure if this applies to a new/crate engine.

About 500 miles on new and rebuilt engines of what the owners manal recommends.
I ran my new 83 Trans-Am 500 miles and changed to syntheic oil [Mobil 1, tested the best synthetic oil.] and to a 4 mircron oil filter. [Amsoil]. Also installed a magnetic oil plug. Next oil change, you won't beleave what shows up on the magnetic oil plug.

Oh yeah, sorry. I didn't mean I would break an engine on synth. I would run dino oil for the first 500 and 3000 then switch to synth.

TK

I can only relate my own experience. All of my cars run higher oil pressure when hot with synthetic. I change them only once a year. My Ferraro kit runs a DS1 turbo. It used a quart of oil every few thousand miles at best. It dont use a drop now between changes. They all start better in Ohio winters, all keep better pressure running or idleing. I pay about $5 a quart for Castrol Synthetic as compared to $2 for reg Valvoline. The Ferraro has over 100K on the engine and the turbo with no signs of any problems. My new car runs regular 5w20 oil. I keep using that till its 10,000 mile change. its got 2,000 right now. It will then get the Castrol also.

Corvette comes from the factory wit Mobil#1 5W/30. Mustang cobra mark 1 comes from the factory with Mobil #1 15W/50.
Don

There is some debate about how long you run a new/rebuilt engine on dino before switching to synthetic. Most machinests I have asked say 10K minimun, some say up to 20K. The point being that synth lubricates so well, the micropolishing effectively stops when you introduce it to the engine. It's kinda like new shoes. They are stiff and hurt your feet until that magic point when they "relax" and you know... "break-in".

As far as the new cars comming with synth directally from the mfg, good question. I don't have an answer. Either a lot of machinsts are wrong about ring/bearing break-in or they are pre-breaking these engines.

Now here's another take on the break-in process. Anybody tried it this way? This also adds a possible answer to the new cars using synth from the factory.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

quote Originally posted by Blacksheep: I have read a few posts on here where people say that they have never put anything other than fully synthetic oil in their cars, and I really dont know anything about it so im just kind of wondering if it is really any better than regular oil and why? Not trying to say the people who have said that dont know what their talking about or anything, im just curious.

lets put it this way.. my father has a 4 door 2.8L v6 chevy citation from 1983, and for twenty years he's used synthetic oil in it, changing the oil every 6K miles..recently, we took out the engine, after 400,000 miles of use.. yes, 400,000 miles, to rebuild it for the first time. the inside of the engine was pretty clean and had about as much wear as a typical engine with about 80k miles on it. Use synthetic, you wont regret it

quote Originally posted by webbee: I am wondering if you couldn't double the milage filter change intervals. Here's why, Consumers Reports did a taxicab dino oil change study in NYC and found no wear differances between the cabs changed at 3K and those changed at 7K

I have a friend that is pretty anal about his vehicles. He's an Amsoil dealer. He changes his oil every 10,000 miles, however, he installs a dual stage oil filter kit to all of his vehicles. He changes the filters at 5,000 miles, and just adds what he needs due to loss from changing the filters.

I'm also a firm believer in synthetic, and run Mobil 1. Roger mentioned he runs Castrol Synthetic. I used to, too, until I found out it's not a true synthetic, and switched to Mobil 1. Run a Google search for "Mobil 1" and you should be able to find plenty of information on the differences between Castrol's "alleged" synthetic, and real synthetics. Don't get me wrong...I like Castrol products, and have used them for years. But if I'm going to pay synthetic prices, then I want a real synthetic product for my money.

Well if Gm uses Moble One in there 405 hp Corvette's and in Northstar cad's. Sounds good to me.

quote Originally posted by litespd: I have a friend that is pretty anal about his vehicles. He's an Amsoil dealer. He changes his oil every 10,000 miles, however, he installs a dual stage oil filter kit to all of his vehicles. He changes the filters at 5,000 miles, and just adds what he needs due to loss from changing the filters. I'm also a firm believer in synthetic, and run Mobil 1. Roger mentioned he runs Castrol Synthetic. I used to, too, until I found out it's not a true synthetic, and switched to Mobil 1. Run a Google search for "Mobil 1" and you should be able to find plenty of information on the differences between Castrol's "alleged" synthetic, and real synthetics. Don't get me wrong...I like Castrol products, and have used them for years. But if I'm going to pay synthetic prices, then I want a real synthetic product for my money.

It works for me, regardless if its ' true ' or not. I started using it because thats what was recommended on my AMG Mercedes. Used to use only Valvoline.

quote Originally posted by litespd: I have a friend that is pretty anal about his vehicles. He's an Amsoil dealer. He changes his oil every 10,000 miles, however, he installs a dual stage oil filter kit to all of his vehicles. He changes the filters at 5,000 miles, and just adds what he needs due to loss from changing the filters. I'm also a firm believer in synthetic, and run Mobil 1.

I am curious about two things?

1) Why does your friend change at 10K when Amsoil states that there oil goes 25K in a regular setup not with dual stage filtration? It also looks like with dual filtration, oil could be changed less frequentally. I guess what I am asking, is this just anality or does he know something that isn't being said?

2) It seems from i-net pricing that Amsoil is cheaper than Mobil 1, why don't you use the Amsoil, vs using Mobil 1, which seems to be better from a longivity standpoint?

I ran Mobil 1 in an 84 Dodge Colt Turbo (back in 1984!).

The 1st thing you notice is the oil pressure comes up just as fast in the winter as it does in the summer. When I ran regular 5w-30 the oil pressure came up painfully slow; with Mobil 1 the oil pressure came up like it was 80 degrees outside.

Personally, I think it's worth it. As soon as I get the last oil leak cured in my car I'll be switching over to it.

-Jeff

quote Originally posted by webbee: Now here's another take on the break-in process. Anybody tried it this way? This also adds a possible answer to the new cars using synth from the factory. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

That guys method is no different than any break in procedure I've ever heard of. I ususally do about 10 full throttle runs from about 1,000rpm to 5,000rpm in 3rd. Full throttle blast then let the engine slow the car down and do it again. This ensures the rings seat correctly. I then change the oil and baby it for a few 1,000.

As for GM using Mobile 1 in new engines, I'm really not sure. They might break them in on a dyno first, then change the oil. Also its possible they got their tolerances close enough and can hone the cylinder well enough that the rings dont need to polish the walls, making breaking in unnessicary.

German Castrol that you can get at a BMW dealer, (and maybe AMG has the same deal) is a whole different story then the other crap they were selling americans.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: It works for me, regardless if its ' true ' or not. I started using it because thats what was recommended on my AMG Mercedes. Used to use only Valvoline.

A buddy just bought a new M3. We don't even want to talk about the rules and type of oil it uses. 10-60W I believe and dealer only?

Castrol? Syntec is Synthetic? You might want to look into that one. Castrol has taken heat even within the oil industry over that product. Frankly I call it Fraud. I no longer buy any Castrol products because of it.

Extended oil changes... At one time Mobil 1 was billed as 10-15,000 mile oil. As I understood it they bowed to the demands of carmakers and withdrew the extended service interval from advertising. I've never found any record of it being a Federal or State investigated thing. (Unlike many oil/fuel additive products that have had many Federal actions against them.)

I've always used magnetic oil plugs. I'm used to seeing them fully covered in fine metal powders with each oil change. Covered to the point it looked like they had hair. Since changing to Mobil 1 at 140 thousand miles, I've seen the tip of the magnet only just barely holding anything. So little it is hardly worth wiping it off. Far Far less than I've ever seen with Crude based products of any brand even when changed every 3000-5000 miles. I've only been changing the Mobil 1 once or twice a year. (7-10,000 miles.) Mobil 1 looks/flows/feels better at 10,000 miles than any crude based I've ever seen at just a couple thousand. (I don't have tools to test it.)

Do you need to change filters between synthetic oil changes? Tough call. I guess it depends what filters you run and how dirty your driving is. People driving in allot of dust clouds probably need more oil and filter changes no matter how you figure. Why? Even though the PCV intake has a filter, it's usually a very coarse filter and allot of crap can get by it. Otherwise... If you are running oil that causes less wear, your filters should last longer as well. If you are running good filters, I'm not sure I'd worry about it. If you are running the long PF52/PH3980 type filter in place of the short ones I'd be inclined to worry even less.

As for oil weight... Use the same oil that the engine normally calls for. Mobil 1 and others are all calibrated to the same API scales as Crude based even though they may have lower pour point. Using a heavier synthetic may pose the same problems as using a heavier crude based product in many engines.

Something to think about here....

The whole 3000-mile thing never came into public information until places like Jiffy Rube and a couple other quick lube chains made a huge advertising thing out of it during the late 80's and early 90's. They literally scared many people into thinking that their cars would blow up unless the oil was changed at that interval. There has never been any reliable way to guess when people should change their oil. Liffy Jube and others simply took the worst-case interval from many service manuals and made it Gospel.

The only cars that can reliably tell you when to change the oil have a sensor that actually monitors the condition of the oil in the pan. If you have a car with an oil change light on the dash... you need to find out what system is used to control it. If the thing has the oil analyzer sensor, you need to listen to it. If the thing just has that bloody oil guessing software in the PCM, then you may want to listen to it for crude based but the software may not be accurate for something like Mobil 1.

------------------
The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the year.

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

I discovered something interesting when I bought my GTP in 2000. I purchased the extended warranty through the credit union rather than the GM. The warranties are great, far cheaper and they don't try to deny every claim. But one little footnote was interesting. The oil change interval for the warranty was 3000 miles vs GM's normal 7500 and that has to happen from the purchase date. So that's what my records indicate with receipts.......

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: It works for me, regardless if its ' true ' or not. I started using it because thats what was recommended on my AMG Mercedes. Used to use only Valvoline.

Roger, Castrol Syntec used to be a true synthetic. It no longer is, due to certain wording in the definition of what a synthetic is. I'm no oil expert, by any stretch of the imagination...but as I understand it, Castrol found a way to produce what is "statistically" a synthetic oil, but it uses a regular oil base stock. It meets the "definition" of what a synthetic is, using cheaper dino oil base stocks and refining methods. I have no doubt that it was recommended on your Mercedes...but that was probably the old true synthetic Castrol, or as Howard has pointed out, Castrol produced in a different country, under different guidelines. I just feel that if I'm going to pay synthetic oil prices, that I want a true synthetic for my money.

quote Originally posted by webbee: 1) Why does your friend change at 10K when Amsoil states that there oil goes 25K in a regular setup not with dual stage filtration? It also looks like with dual filtration, oil could be changed less frequentally. I guess what I am asking, is this just anality or does he know something that isn't being said? 2) It seems from i-net pricing that Amsoil is cheaper than Mobil 1, why don't you use the Amsoil, vs using Mobil 1, which seems to be better from a longivity standpoint?

1. He's anal. He actually told me that he could run much longer between oil changes. But 10,000 miles is what he feels comfortable with, and so, that's where he changes it.

2. It's much easier for me to run to Walmart and purchase a 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 than it is to find a distributor for Amsoil. I HAVE seen Amsoil for sale in some parts stores, but I don't buy my oil there, as it's more expensive than at Walmart. I DO use Wix oil filters, which I've been told are much better than most filters....they filter down to smaller microns than most of the filters out there. I change my oil much more frequently than 10,000 miles, so the "longevity" of the oil really isn't a concern for me.

[This message has been edited by litespd (edited 09-12-2004).]

Not sure if there is still interest in this thread...but the best possible way to determine whether or not it is safe to extend drain intervals is through oil analysis. The thing most people complain about that are aware of this technology is that it costs the same as an oil change. My argument to that is this...an oil change doesn't give you a fraction of the information as an oil analysis sample. You can get basic testing done that simply checks the condition of your engine and checks for contaminants as well as the viscosity. Advanced testing can tell you the actual condition and remaining useful life (RUL) of the lubricant. Even further, your sample can be run across a slide and examined via microscopy.

I can go into detail on the types of testing, instrumentation, and methods if the interest is there. A lot can be told based on viscosity. The viscosity is the single most important property of a lubricating oil.

As for the magnet...remember, the unaided eye can see as small as 40 microns in size (about the size of a pencil dot). If you are seeing individual particles on your magnet, you can rest assured that inspection of bearings, shafts, or other internal components will reveal a problem. Not might, but WILL.

The synthetic vs. mineral oil question that started this topic...to decide whether to use or not use synthetic really depends on the application. For example...if you are very religious about changing your oil and filter at 3000 miles--mineral oil will do you fine. If you are not that religious about it, if you have a heavy foot, if you race your car, or if your car is subject to other extreme conditions, synthetic would be well worth the money. As an example...I used to drive 1100 miles per week in my Jetta. I bought the car with 27,000 miles...put in Mobil 1 and utilized oil analysis for condition based lubricant change. I changed the oil at 25,000 miles. Keep in mind, that is 52,000 miles on the car, 25k on the Mobil 1. The lubricant was still in not that bad of condition. These miles were all freeway which did little wear and tear on the lubricant. City driving will likely yield different results.

Synthetic is (as stated in a previous post in this thread) may cause higher mileage engines to start leaking due to the added detergency of the synthetic. This is NOT the case in all high mileage engines. The problem is that you do not know if yours will leak until it starts leaking.

Filters----Wix are good. PureONE is by all means not a slouch.

Let me know if you want to go deeper in this discussion regarding the testing, what it can or can't tell you as well as locations to have the testing done. There are over 250 oil analysis labs in the US. Some are good, some are not so good.

Stock GM oil filter, filters down to about 24 mic. any iron based metals that are smaller then 24 mic. will not get filtered out of the oil.
Gm's new gold fliter will filters down to 12 mic. and GM has said this will reduce the engine ware by about 80%.
The filter that I use, will filter down to 4 mic. and the magnet get the smaller stuff.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

This site has a bunch of oil info, and it seems to be completely independent from any oil company sponsorship.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html

I use this company every 10,000 miles to see how the engine is doing.

For you guys that are changing your oil at 10,000+ miles you should change your filter ATLEAST every 5,000miles even though the oil is still good doesnt mean the filter is.

Kyle

I am new to all this, but I just put Mobil 1 in both my cars with regular filters.
1. Where can I get these great filters you speak of, and how the heck do you change it without draining the oil?
2. Are you guys like the Flash or something? Seriously, give me some tips here.
3. Also, is there anything special I should do when I switch my car to synthetic? Both cars have over 30,000 miles on them, so no "break-in" concerns.
4. Where is the nearest "good" oil analysis place to Cleveland Ohio?

Any tips would be helpful. You've all got me worried about my $3 Wal Mart oil filter.

If you change just the filter, you prob only lose 1/2 quart of oil. I use the larger than OEM filter on mine ( Mobile 1-201) because I have a turbo and it holds nearly 2 times as much oil. I only use Castrol Synthetic in all of mine. The new Magnum will get it after I put on 10,000 miles on their oil since i get 3 free changes from dealer. If you dont have any leaks, 30,000 miles and switching shouldnt do anything bad. My vette had 70,000 when I bought it and i immediately put in The Castrol. Since I started using it prob 10 years ago, i havent had any engine issues at all. None of mine leak anywhere. My Ferraro dont use any at all between changes at 7,000-10,000. I just did a change today, first in almost 2 years. It was still relatively clean.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-19-2005).]