Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  General Motors' new Gen IV 5300 5.3L V-8 (LS4) engine debuts in the 2005 Grand Prix

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


General Motors' new Gen IV 5300 5.3L V-8 (LS4) engine debuts in the 2005 Grand Prix by Darth Fiero
Started on: 11-11-2004 02:56 AM
Replies: 30
Last post by: Darth Fiero on 11-13-2004 07:03 PM
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5922
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 361
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 02:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote

New Gen IV 5300 Turns V-8 Performance On Its Side

PONTIAC - General Motors' new Gen IV 5300 5.3L V-8 (LS4) engine debuts in the 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, making it the first V-8 offered in a Grand Prix since 1987. It also marks the first time since the small-block was introduced 50 years ago that it has been offered in a front-wheel-drive car.

Engineered specifically for front-drive layouts, the 5300 V-8 is estimated to produce 290 horsepower and 325 lb.-ft. of torque. It incorporates Displacement on Demand technology (DOD), which helps the vehicle realize fuel economy gains of up to 12 percent per the EPA federal fuel economy test procedures. It does this by seamlessly alternating between eight- and four-cylinder operation.

When matched with the inherent smoothness and torque of the V-8 configuration, the 5300 V-8 delivers strong performance - 90 percent of torque is available between 1500 rpm and 5200 rpm - and surprising economy. It's a combination most competitors' V-6 offerings can't match.

"Over 50 years, the small-block V-8 has proven itself more adaptable than anyone could have imagined," said Dave Muscaro, assistant chief engineer of small-block V-8 for passenger cars. "The small-block family has a tradition dating back to 1955 in which an excellent design makes possible the additions of new technology. The Displacement on Demand-capable 5300 V-8 is a fine example of that tradition."

Family ties

The all-aluminum 5300 V-8 is the third displacement offering of the Gen IV small-block, which was introduced in the 2005 Chevrolet SSR, GTO and Corvette, as well as several 2005 GM SUVs. The 5300 V-8 shares a common architecture with these other versions, including a deep-skirt block, six-bolt cross-bolted main bearing caps, and structural oil pan, but is modified to accommodate the "east-west" mounting position of the Grand Prix's front-wheel-drive chassis.

To fit the "sideways" positioning in the Grand Prix, several changes were made to shorten the engine's overall length. The crankshaft was shortened by 13 mm - 3 mm at the rear and 10 mm at the front - and the entire accessory drive system was designed to reduce space. The water pump and all other accessories, including the power steering pump, are driven on a single-belt drive system - the longest drive system in a GM vehicle.

Engineers devised an elongated water pump manifold, which features a remote-mounted pump that feeds the stock Gen IV coolant passages via the unique manifold. The design allowed the drive system to be mounted closer to the engine block. Because of the 5300 V-8's relatively low inertia, which can be up to 50 percent less at the crankshaft damper than a 6.0L V-8, a hydraulic belt tensioner was used instead of a conventional rotary tensioner.

Unique position

The sideways position of the 5300 V-8 required revisions to the lubrication system. Engineers tested 5300 V-8 equipped test vehicles on racetracks, subjecting them to high-load turns that guided the development of special oil pan baffles that ensure lubrication during cornering. In addition, because Gen IV engines don't have a block-mounted oil filter - it's located on the oil pan - the 5300 V-8's filter offers easy access.

The GM Oil Life System oil-change indicator system is standard, which can reduce the frequency of oil changes during the engine's operating life. With the system, the engine control module (ECM) records cumulative data on a number of variables, including engine rpm, temperature, load or rpm variance and length of operation at any given load and temperature. Using this information, the system calculates oil degradation and recommends an oil change when the oil is near the end of its useful life - in other words, when an oil change is actually needed.

Other 5300 V-8 features include:

Lightweight, three-piece friction-welded composite intake manifold
Aluminum high-flow cylinder heads similar to 6.0L V-8 (LS2)
Aluminum engine block with cross-bolted main bearing caps
Full-floating pistons
Electronic throttle control integrated with a new engine controller
10.0:1 compression ratio for fuel-efficient performance
Unique camshaft designed for DOD technology
GM Oil Life System to minimize required oil changes
Because of the front-drive layout, the 5300 V-8's exhaust manifold routing includes two manifolds joined by a single crossover pipe, which connect to a single underbody catalytic converter. The crossover pipe allows the use of a single oxygen sensor, unlike north/south V-8 applications that have two oxygen sensors.

Displacement on Demand technology

GM's Displacement on Demand technology debuted in 2005 GM extended midsize SUVs equipped with the Vortec 5.3L V-8 (LH6) engine. With the 5300 V-8 (LS4), DOD technology enables fuel economy gains of up to 12 percent in certain driving conditions by reducing the number of cylinders engaged in the combustion process. A sophisticated, next-generation engine controller determines when to deactivate cylinders, allowing the engine to maintain vehicle speed in lighter-load conditions such as highway cruising. When the cylinders are deactivated, the engine effectively operates as a V-4, with alternate cylinders on each cylinder bank disabled. The engine returns to V-8 mode the instant the controller determines the vehicle speed or load requires additional power. The process is seamless and virtually imperceptible.

"There's nothing like the satisfying feel of a V-8 engine and the 5300 V-8 provides a level of performance rarely available in competitors' vehicles," said Muscaro. "But when all eight cylinders aren't required to maintain performance, DOD technology effectively turns the engine into a more efficient V-4."

Just thought I would pass it along.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
jeffndebrus
Member
Posts: 2772
From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa
Registered: Aug 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 85
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 03:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffndebrusSend a Private Message to jeffndebrusDirect Link to This Post
Yeeeeooowww!
I want one. I did not see what transaxle they are going to use.
IP: Logged
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5922
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 361
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 03:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jeffndebrus:

Yeeeeooowww!
I want one. I did not see what transaxle they are going to use.

They are using a "high performance" version of the 4T65-E HD transaxle with TAPshift.

IP: Logged
jeffndebrus
Member
Posts: 2772
From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa
Registered: Aug 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 85
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 04:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffndebrusSend a Private Message to jeffndebrusDirect Link to This Post
Well, this is history in the making.---front wheel drive v-8's. hmmmm---seems like an interesting idea. I wonder how they will handle traction control. I hate the way a front wheel drive feels when it is spinning and laying rubber. It just does not feel right!
But that's you and me--------the new generation of young drivers may not know anything different.

Since I won't have the money for one anyway-I'm glad my v-8 and 4t60e are in the back.

IP: Logged
matchmade
Member
Posts: 435
From: Nashville,TN USA
Registered: Sep 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for matchmadeSend a Private Message to matchmadeDirect Link to This Post
Isn't that the same engine and tranny set up Loyd was putting in his car? His had came out of an Impala SS prototype or something I thought...
IP: Logged
mcaanda
Member
Posts: 3652
From: Grand Junction Colorado
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score:    (19)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 129
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by matchmade:

Isn't that the same engine and tranny set up Loyd was putting in his car? His had came out of an Impala SS prototype or something I thought...


Trans possibly, but a no on the motor. The one Loyde has is an LS1, 5.7 where Ryan is discussing the 5.3.

Totally different animals, but both would make killer swaps none the less.

IP: Logged
tesmith66
Member
Posts: 7355
From: Jerseyville, IL
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 135
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
The 5.3 is a smaller displacement version of the 5.7. Most of the parts will interchange.
IP: Logged
Oreif
Member
Posts: 16460
From: Schaumburg, IL
Registered: Jan 2000


Feedback score:    (19)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 442
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
Well it would make an interesting swap. At least we would now have a transaxle with an SBC bolt pattern.
An aluminum 327 sounds great as well. Sounds like mechanically it would slide into a Fiero, Just not sure how the DOD system and all the other electronics would work.
IP: Logged
Black-Azz-GT
Member
Posts: 2326
From: Florida Keys
Registered: Oct 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Black-Azz-GTSend a Private Message to Black-Azz-GTDirect Link to This Post
Sweet. I remember hereing about thi some time ago. I was just wondering when it was going to happen.

------------------
-Chris -
Custom Gun Metal 86 GT 4.9 V8 5spd

Build up tread or MODS w/ Pics

IP: Logged
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jeffndebrus:

Well, this is history in the making.---front wheel drive v-8's.

Cadillac's been doing it for over 10 years.
Now, a FWD Chevy V8 - that's another story.

IP: Logged
HitesFiero
Member
Posts: 401
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 11:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
At least we would now have a transaxle with an SBC bolt pattern.

I don't think it will. The article stated that the block and crank where modified for traverse mounting, that would seem to indicate that it has the standard GM front wheel drive bolt patern.

------------------
Don Hites
88 GT, Getrag 5spd, 4.9 v8 with a Delta cam and other heavy mods.
88 Coupe 5spd Duke
(now under restoration)

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mcaanda:

Trans possibly, but a no on the motor. The one Loyde has is an LS1, 5.7 where Ryan is discussing the 5.3.

Totally different animals, but both would make killer swaps none the less.

Not really. The 5.3 and 5.7 LS1 are basically the exact same engine, just different displacement. If the tranny works for the 5.3, it'll work on the LS1, LS6 and LS2. (assuming of course this isn't a special FWD bolt pattern block - that's the kicker)

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-11-2004).]

IP: Logged
mcaanda
Member
Posts: 3652
From: Grand Junction Colorado
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score:    (19)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 129
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
Not really. The 5.3 and 5.7 LS1 are basically the exact same engine, just different displacement. If the tranny works for the 5.3, it'll work on the LS1, LS6 and LS2. (assuming of course this isn't a special FWD bolt pattern block - that's the kicker)

Yea, I should have said just "different" animals...not "totally" different.

Where does the line for “different”, and “totally different” lie…in displacement + bell pattern = Different, but displacement + bell pattern + the use of 5/3o required over 5/5o = “totally different?”
Play on words and nit picking if you want to get into it.

That aside, Loyde still has the 5.7, not the 5.3 as though by the original post.

IP: Logged
Flyguyeddy
Member
Posts: 568
From: pekin, Il USA
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyguyeddySend a Private Message to FlyguyeddyDirect Link to This Post
my ford taurus has a v8 in it.

its also a 96. so it has been goin on in other manufacturers cars too

IP: Logged
fieroX
Member
Posts: 5234
From: wichita, Ks
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 372
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroXSend a Private Message to fieroXDirect Link to This Post
sounds like archie is going to have some business problems soon

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 11-11-2004).]

IP: Logged
86GT3.4DOHC
Member
Posts: 10007
From: Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 306
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
Yea, but if the dome light burns out, the SES light is gonna come on, and the eninge will drop into limp in mode. Im not a hard core carb guy, but these cars are getting rediculous, lol.
IP: Logged
tesmith66
Member
Posts: 7355
From: Jerseyville, IL
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 135
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
Sounds like my truck...
IP: Logged
Raydar
Member
Posts: 41145
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 461
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
"It also marks the first time since the small-block was introduced 50 years ago that it has been offered in a front-wheel-drive car."

Not to split hairs here, but what does this engine have in common with the original SBC other than a 90 degree cylinder bank angle, a bunch of pushrods, and a similar (but not identical) tranny bolt pattern? I thought it was a "cleen sheet of paper".

I don't think there's a single casting that even looks like the original SBC.
[/rant]

Having said all of that, this is going to make one hell of a swap.
I *am* curious as to what bolt pattern the tranny and block will have. Unless it's something completely new, it will have to be a good thing, either way.

IP: Logged
eatoninside
Member
Posts: 719
From: Tremonton, UT
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eatoninsideSend a Private Message to eatoninsideDirect Link to This Post
I took a pic of the GXP Grand Prix when I was at SEMA last week. I should have gotten some pics of the engine, but I didn't.

Here is what was on the stand by the car:

I tried to post a pic of the car, but PIP wasn't working all the sudden. I will try later.

I talked to a Pontiac representative about the car. They are shooting for a base MSRP of around 30k and they aren't sure if they are going to make it standard with cloth seats or leather seats yet. Inside, the car was the same as your regular Grand Prix. nothing special like the Bonneville GXP is.

IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14278
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The block is all that's necessary...
If it's the std FWD pattern, you could bolt up the forthcoming G6 GTP 6 speed manual...
have the block resleeved and get a stroker crank made...
7.0 litre LS1 Fiero with 6 speed
IP: Logged
Howard_Sacks
Member
Posts: 1871
From: Cherry Hill, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 294
User Banned

Report this Post11-11-2004 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Howard_SacksClick Here to visit Howard_Sacks's HomePageSend a Private Message to Howard_SacksDirect Link to This Post
HA!

dude, he can still sell angle iron as motor mount kits.

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroX:

sounds like archie is going to have some business problems soon

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroX:

sounds like archie is going to have some business problems soon

Why's that? The 3800, 4.9, 3.4 pushrod and DOHC, and Northstar all have the FWD bolt pattern - yet there are business that do swaps for them. If anything, this will just open up more options to Archie's customers.

But if it makes you and Howard happy, think what you will.

IP: Logged
jeffndebrus
Member
Posts: 2772
From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa
Registered: Aug 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 85
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffndebrusSend a Private Message to jeffndebrusDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


Cadillac's been doing it for over 10 years.
Now, a FWD Chevy V8 - that's another story.

Ahhhhh---hmph! Well yes, I knew that---I have a 4.9 in my Fiero---where it belongs by the way-In The Back! lol

IP: Logged
VA RICR-ETR
Member
Posts: 414
From: Nashville, TN USA
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VA RICR-ETRSend a Private Message to VA RICR-ETRDirect Link to This Post
Here is the pic of the one at SEMA..... Very cool..... I also attended a short block seminar on the history and technology with the short block. Very interesting info I got out of that one.

------------------
Kris Bulla
kbulla@victorytechnologies.com

IP: Logged
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eatoninside:
Here is what was on the stand by the car:

Wider wheels and tires up front?
(yes, I know it's FWD, but I'm thinking that's gonna look silly)

IP: Logged
jsmorter1
Member
Posts: 674
From: Creston, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jsmorter1Send a Private Message to jsmorter1Direct Link to This Post
Wider wheels and tires up front?
(yes, I know it's FWD, but I'm thinking that's gonna look silly)

that is what I thought

IP: Logged
LS1swap
Member
Posts: 1181
From: McHenry,IL.USA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LS1swapClick Here to visit LS1swap's HomePageSend a Private Message to LS1swapDirect Link to This Post
I hope the tranny does have the LS1/SBC bolt pattern. it will open up the options

------------------
LS1 v8 T-Top 87 GT

http://www.acxunlimited.com/ls1swap.htm

IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14278
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

ider wheels and tires up front?
(yes, I know it's FWD, but I'm thinking that's gonna look silly)

Actually, it's not too bad... Gives it a kind of bulldog look. Makes it handle better because of the horrible weight distribution, too.

------------------
Turn the key and feel the engine shake the whole car with its lope; Plant the gas pedal and feel in your chest neither a shriek nor a wail but a bellowing roar; Lift and be pushed into the harness by compression braking that only comes from the biggest cylinders while listening to music of pops and gurgles. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none of them are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

IP: Logged
Soelasca
Member
Posts: 455
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Registered: Sep 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2004 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SoelascaClick Here to visit Soelasca's HomePageSend a Private Message to SoelascaDirect Link to This Post
Well, now I"m going to have to do some research as to how I can get my hands on one of these transmissions and how easy it's gonna be to put into a fiero. I have a 6.0L waiting to be rebuilt.............. *dreamin* :
IP: Logged
The Adjuster
Member
Posts: 92
From: Ft Wayne IN
Registered: Sep 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2004 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post
Hmm...looks like it might be a fun option for another powertrain set up in our collection...Darth when you gonna build me one?

------------------

http://dtcc.cz28.com/85FieroL36

IP: Logged
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5922
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 361
Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2004 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by The Adjuster:

Hmm...looks like it might be a fun option for another powertrain set up in our collection...Darth when you gonna build me one?

I thought you wanted a turbo? Or do you want a turbocharged 5300 vortec?

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock