Hi Everyone,
There has been quite a buzz on the boards lately about paint jobs, and there seem to be quite a mix of information out there. I own a shop in which we have a paint booth, and we do quite a bit of paint work (no serious collision, mainly resprays and custom jobs) so I thought I would offer my .02 cents about how to find a good paint job for the best deal, and what a good deal really is..
Body condition is the #1 factor determining the value of a car. All things being equal, paint condition can effect the value of a car thousands of dollars. The difference between a $500 Fiero and a $1500 Fiero can very well be the condition of the paint. But, as we know, not all paint jobs are created equal. Lets use this thread to dismiss some of the myths about paint and body work, and get down to the truth about paint jobs.
Let's start with the the factors that determine the cost of a paint job:
1) LABOR - paint work takes time, how good do you want your car to look? The biggest determining factor in how good a paint job will come out is the time spent prepping the car prior to painting. It doesn't matter if a person had painted 10,000 cars, if the time is not spent preparing the body properly, the end result will suffer. Unfortunatley there is just no way around it. Labor is billed by the hour, and if the painter needs to spend a lot of time getting panels straight, correcting things like misaligned panels, spider cracks, etc than the paint job is going to cost more. If these things are not corrected, the paint job will suffer.
2) PREP TIME - First let's take the case of a Fiero with a body that is in very good condition. Fortubatley, Fiero body panels don't rust. Rust is the #1 most expensive repair to have made at a body shop. Due to the fact that it is so difficult and tiem consuming to repair rust correctly, most shops will not even perform rust work! It's simply not worth their time, and they don't want to hear about it if the rust comes back 18 months later. But we are talking about Fiero's here, and that is not a concern for us. General body preperation would be wet sand with 180 or 220 grit (depending on the condition of the paint) on a block to eliminate major surface defects. With wet sanding, the water helps wash away defects (dirt, grit or crap in the paint) the sand paper releases from the finish so you are not continuing to drag them along the surface and gouging up the surface. The sanding block insures that the panel is 100% level, as even the slightest amount of irregularity in the surface will cause ripples in the panel that will show up after the nice, shiny paint has been applied. After a rough sand with 180 or 220 grit, I will move to 320 grit again block sanding the entire car, then to the final 400 grit. 400 is the finest I would go with a car that will be driven on the street. Some will sand with 600 grit, but in my opinion 600 grit is too fine, and I have seen instances where this has led to paint adhesion problems (paint shipping off) down the road.
2) BODY CONDITION - So, as we know that labor is the big factor in the cost of the paint job, the condition of the body of the car can effect the cost of the paint job considerably. Some conditions that can effect the cost of the paint job are: Stone chips in the front end, cracking or peeling paint, cracks in the panels, mis aligned body panels. Be sure to ask the painter what he/she plans to do about specific defects. Don't be afraid to ask how they will perform the repair either. This will help give some insight into how they perform their work.
3) MASKING: Masking can take quite a bit of time on some cars, fortunatley the Fiero is a relativley simple car to mask. There is usually no need to remove body parts, unless there is a gasket between the part and the body (like some side view mirrors). It may not be necessary to remove the tail lights depending on the car. Good quality masking tape (3M) is essential, as tape not made for body shop use will have a tendancy to let the paint bleed through the edge. Also, no newspaper! Modern paint atmoizes into a very fine mist when sprayed, and it will bleed through newspaper! I've never seen a shop that uses newspaper, but if you choose to use an independant guy be sure he uses proper masking paper.
4) PAINTS AND MATERIALS: This is where it gets tricky. There are many paints on the market, and several types of painting systems. I will explain the most commonly used paints and systems, to help you make a decision with your painter that fits your individual needs.
SINGLE STAGE PAINT: Single stage paint has been around forever, it is the most basic form of paint. Single Stage simply means that the paint is applied in one step. Single Stage can refer to Acrylic Enamel, Lacquer, Urethane, etc it is all applied in one step, and the gloss is contained in the color coat. The major advantage is that Single Stage is less expensive, but it is also not as durable as Base Coat/Clear Coat, it is more difficult to repair if it develops weather damage (like hazing/water spotting) and Single Stage *can* be more difficult to blend/repair and color match if a panel needs to be replaced or an area repaired later down the road.
BASE COAT/CLEAR COAT: In the mid 80's manufacturers began the switch to Base Coat/Clear Coat systems. With BC/CC, the color coat is applied firts, then a coat of Clear is applied over the color. This has several advantages. While spraying, if a defect shows up in the color coat it can easily be corrected before the clear coat is applied. To a certain point, the more clear applied means more protection for the color coat underneith from the elements, scrapes/scratches etc. Clear Coat can be buffed to a ultra high gloss shine, It is easier to perform repairs on BC/CC cars than on single stage. The disadvantage is that BC/CC is more expensive.
A NOTE ON SINGLE STAGE PAINT: In this day and age, there are several choices for single stage paints. I would ONLY spray Urethane dingle stage, as Acrylic Enamel is outdated, and I would hope that no one is using Lacquer any more. The cost between Urethane and Acrylic Enamel is small, and Urethane is a far superior product. It is the highest quality single stage paint available today.
COST OF PAINT: Paint can get *very* expensive depending on brand and type. With any company there is usually several levels of quality - an economy brand, a mid level and a high end product. The major players in paint are PPG, DuPont, Sherwin Williams and Spies Hecker. Within each company there is usually an "economy" brand. DuPont's economy brand is Nason, PPG's is Omni. I am not familiar with the others out there. Even the "economy" level paints are very good from the name brand companies, and I spray a lot of nason myself. The cost is significantly less than the "name brand" parent paints. The only problem I've had with economy brand paints is that the color match is sometimes a problem to a factory panel. This is not a concern if you have your car fully resprayed.
COST OF THE JOB: What most people interested in this thread came for - cost of a paint job. Well, paint jobs can differ greatly from car to car, but generally you should be able to get a good job with quality product for around $1200 to $1500. $1200 would be a single stage job, $1300 and up would get a BC/CC finish. This would include some repair of minor defects and normal wear and tear (stone chips, etc). Supplies are going to cost anyone around $300 to $400 on such a job using a good quality economy line paint so that leaves $800 to $1100 for the labor. Higher end jobs generally cost around $2000 to $2500 which includes buffing the final finish to produce the highest gloss possible. Paint for a job like that will usually run $500 to $600 using PPG, Sherwin Williams or Spied Hecker. I would be weary of anything below $800 on anything but a parts car. A paint job in that range could really hurt the resale value of the car. Than again, if it's just a beater than you can take your chances...
MAACO/ECONOMY JOBS - we don't have a Maaco or Earl Scheibe where I live so I cannot directly comment on the work they do. One thing I know, however, is I cannot even buy the SUPPLIES to do a job for what they charge for a paint job. I have no idea what they use for paint, but it has to be the most inexpensive paint that can be purchased. Repainting a car that has been painted before is bad enough, as compatibility problems can always occur (and often do) with anything but a factory finish but generally the less expensive the paint that is on the car, the more compatibility issues you will have if you have it painted again. Generally if poor product is used on a car and you want to spray over it it will require completely stripping the car and starting over. That is a very expensive job. Also, if they are painting a car for less than I could even buy supplies for, than they are not spending much time sanding/prepping/masking the car. This will probably lead to chipping/flaking down the road.
FINDING A PAINTER: It is hard to find a good painter. Most of the higher end shops in town can't afford to do the less expensive jobs as they have a big building, several employees, very expensive collision repair machines, etc. And they must make a certain amount of money every day to stay in business. This means they stick to late model collision work. So, you are left to find a painter on your own. Here are a few ideas to help you find that "diamond in the rough" painter that you know is in your town somewhere, if only you could find him...
1) Call the high end collision shops/Pro Shops. Yep! Don't be afraid to give them a call! But, they are not the ones you want to do the work. When you call (or even better stop in) and tell them you are looking to get your daily driver or project car painted, you want something decent but the car doesn't mandate a $4,000 paint job. Could they recommend someone in town that perhapse does some side work, or work like this? They will be happy to help you, as you are not cutting into their line of work and they would not do the job anyway. Like any business the body business is a small community, and most places can recommend a shop they know of that will be able to do the work you are looking for. Also, many body men will do side work on the weekends/after work, maby they have an employee there that can do the paint job for you.
2) Hit the parts stores - many parts stores sell paint and supplies to jobbers. They also know all the shops in the area. talk to the guys at the paint store and chances are they know someone in the area that does paint work on the side. This is a great way to find a good body man.
Well, this is getting very winded, but I was hoping to give everyone some insight into the world of body work and paint work. Let's use this thread to answer specific questions anyone has about paint jobs. Post your questions and I'll be happy to answer them.
Hope this helps,
VTFiero
www.eckertmotorsport.com
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