Originally posted by sonic50: My budget is about 5,000 dollers. I am looking for about 45 more hp.
Steps to success: 1) buy 4.9L cadillac donor car -$1000 2) remove necessary parts and sell rest +$200 3) install engine -$500 4) dance and roll around in the money you've saved ($3700) 5) enjoy your extra ~~65~~ HP!
Your prices, experiences, and sanity may vary
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10:47 PM
fierobrian Member
Posts: 2976 From: aurora il 60505 Registered: Sep 2003
i put a under drive pully on and it does make a good difface but i had to swap to a bigger alt. but the 88's have the alt i swaped too . and now with my new alt it works great with all the power suckers on air, headlights and radio . but if you have that kind of money do the engine swap . i want to do a 3800 supercharged because they are fast stock , and then you can do so many more things too it and run great numbers and get good gas milage but that is just the one i like .
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10:53 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
Its funny I was just talking about this the other day, I think its funny when people spend hundreds and thousands on getting horsepower a little at a time, so called 15 horse with this air intake and and 50 horse with this after market chip etc....spend the money on a motor swap. Just for the fact after you spend so much on the here and there horsepower you have now added first of all alot less then you think, second you added more horse to a stock engine, most likely an older motor with a few miles on it. Do a motor swap or rebuild the engine with new and better parts or spend way to much for a few horsepower you may or may not even feel or live with what you have?
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
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10:59 PM
PFF
System Bot
ThaFieroMunk Member
Posts: 945 From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada Registered: Dec 2002
My budget is about 5,000 dollers. I am looking for about 45 more hp.
Remove the fuel injection, Install a Crane H272 cam, Holley 390 4-bbl carb, Edelbrock aluminum intake, 1982-1985 S-10/S-15 distributor, and a good exhaust set-up. Total cost about $1000.00 (with a 3.4L you'll gain another 30hp) Total gain about 60hp. Take the other $4000 and upgrade suspension, body, and stereo. Or add in a 50hp shot of NOS for $395 and you now will have a 110hp increase over the stock 2.8L.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 08-12-2004).]
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12:09 AM
Quickster Member
Posts: 828 From: Bakersfield, California >USA< Registered: Jan 2002
Yeah,....and how do you guys propose to get something like you suggest smogged in California!!
It can be done. The 3.4, if put together right, looks exactly like the 2.8, so don't tell em. Bolt ons like NOS, make sure the kit you're using is CA smog legal. Becareful with the cam, as I've heard some aftermarket cams will make a lopy idle which is a smog black flag. Talk to the guys down at WCF about different engines in CA cars, they know a lot about it.
The most important thing is that you have to keep it as stock as possible if you do an engine swap in CA. For instance, if you do a 4.9 or a 3800, you HAVE to use an Automatic transmission, no ifs ands or buts, because no car has ever come stock with a 4.9 or 3800 and a manual transmission.
Really, you can get any car smogged in CA if you're willing to jump through enough hoops and fill out enough forms and crap. The above tips will make it easier though.
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12:53 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Remove the fuel injection, Install a Crane H272 cam, Holley 390 4-bbl carb, Edelbrock aluminum intake, 1982-1985 S-10/S-15 distributor, and a good exhaust set-up.
Is there an old thread for this mod? Tried Edelbrock.com- no listing for the manifold. Does this mod eliminate the need for any of the computer sensors?
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01:30 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Jegs and Summit Racing both sell the intakes as well.
NOTE: These are 2-piece intakes. Edelbrocks website does not show a pic of the 4-bbl riser.
Yes it eliminates the computer and associated sensors. The only sensors you use are the VSS for the speedo, the temp gauge, fan switch and oil pressure sending unit.
If you use the 4-bbl, there is no provision for an EGR so it will not pass emissions if it is required in your area.The 2-bbl riser has an EGR port so it can be adjusted to pass most state EPA testing. Of course, California being the strictest, you most likely won't get it to pass. Some states allow you to register the car as a "showcar" and allow you to exempt them from emission testing. Please check with your local laws before going the carb'd route.
If your curious how it looks:
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02:00 AM
NotAFieroAnyLonger Member
Posts: 4413 From: 75762/Texas/USA Registered: Dec 2003
The most important thing is that you have to keep it as stock as possible if you do an engine swap in CA. For instance, if you do a 4.9 or a 3800, you HAVE to use an Automatic transmission, no ifs ands or buts, because no car has ever come stock with a 4.9 or 3800 and a manual transmission.
What about Camaro and Firebird 3800/ 5 speed cars?
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04:01 PM
sonic50 Member
Posts: 3873 From: All over the USA Registered: Aug 2004
You can get about 80hp for $2500 with a turbo kit.
The turbo kit alone won't get you 80hp. Of all the kits I've seen that you just bolt up, Most end up with 190hp (about a 50hp gain) Of course with a budget of $5000, use $2500 for the turbo kit and the other $2500 for head work, a custom cam, intercooler, and some tuning/dyno time and you could get around 225hp.
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12:58 AM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
What about Camaro and Firebird 3800/ 5 speed cars?
Don't know exactly. If you used one that you can prove (ie have VIN # and what not) came from an F-body then it should be ok as far as I know. But that means N/A 3800 only, unless you can find an aftermarket, CA smog approved Supercharger for the 3800. You can't use a stock 3800SC because those only came in cars with Auto transmissions.
Why in h**l would you spend $5000 on a 2.8????????????? Do an engine swap! Here's an idea----buy a plane ticket on priceline to Toney Al. and Ed Parks will let you drive his 4.9. Then fly to Chicago and Archie will let you drive a sbc Fiero. This trip will save you a ton of money in the end because you will realize that the 2.8 will never make you happy no atter how much money you throw at it because it won't have that sound or that rumble. I have 4.9/4t60e with Eds Harness----I'm into it for around $2500 After driving Ed's 4.9--I knew I would never be happy until I had my own 4.9 v-8 Fiero.
not sure how cali smog affects the option of turbocharging a car.. but if you did a 3.4 upgrade to your fiero v6 (500$) - then did a turbo upgrade (2500$) you could have about 300hp
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01:26 PM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
not sure how cali smog affects the option of turbocharging a car.. but if you did a 3.4 upgrade to your fiero v6 (500$) - then did a turbo upgrade (2500$) you could have about 300hp
You're options are limited. CA allows for turbos, but it has to be a CARB approved turbo and kit and (I think) professionally installed. Then theres paperwork and forms and other BS to be filled out. If you don't have all the documentation you need, the smog ref is gonna take one look at the engine and send you home empty handed.
Your other option is to do it yourself so you know how, then take it all off and put it back to stock every 2 years long enough to get it smogged. Then put it all back on. I know people who do/have done this. If you don't mind the work involved, its not a bad solution. If I had the $$$ for a turbo kit, this is probably what I'd end up doing.
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04:39 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Hey khoburn, The guy that asked the question is in Georgia-----who cares what they do in california?? Again----you know what --nevermind--y'all have a ricer mentality on this particular post. Go ahead and throw your $5,000 at your 2.8----hope you're happy with what you got when you are finished.
Hey khoburn, The guy that asked the question is in Georgia-----who cares what they do in california?? Again----you know what --nevermind--y'all have a ricer mentality on this particular post. Go ahead and throw your $5,000 at your 2.8----hope you're happy with what you got when you are finished.
Another hijacked thread. The guy wanted to know how to make his car faster. But since we are here already I might as well add my peice...
I would rather spend the $5k or so on a nice 2.8-3.4 pushrod motor then $2500 to install a 4.9 turd motor. You spent $2500 to get 200 hp well I spent $500 to get 200 hp out of my 2.8. so looks like I am still way ahead of you.
If I spent $5k on a 2.8-3.4 pushrod, I would have one hell of a v6 pushing well more then 350 hp. The problem is is that when people rebuild these v6 motors they try to do it for as cheap as they can just like you do with your 4.9 swaps. Well when you start cutting corners to save money, you also cut down how much power you are going to make.
People talk about doing a 3.4 but then put in a tiny cam. Also those same people will talk about getting a "performance" 3 angle valve job. Sorry but stock came with 4. Then they get a port job done that only costs them like $200 to doif they even get one. Umm yea I am sure you are getting a awesome performance port job for that kind of money. Sorry but thats going to buy a gasket match at the most. True port work for heads on the intake exhaust and bowl work is going to be around $500-$700 with flow numbers for verification. Noone but a few have gone this far. Then those same people will try to use a factory chip or a "custom" chip installed in their car without even going to a dyno to see just how bad it is running and how much tuning it needs. Then they turn around and complain that they just spent $1500 and only have an engine that makes 20 more hp to the wheels then a stock 2.8. Umm plunk down some real money mang and you will have more power.
i am planning a build right now and it will be a 3.2 liter. Inital horsepower estimates will be in the 240 hp range and that will be spending about $3500. that will be without using nitrous, turbo or a carb setup. Yea you prob think that I am full of it but its been done once already by another 60 degree owner.
hell I think Orief said he spent about $1700 on his 3.4 build and dynoed 220 or so at the crank. Carb of course. but he used the right cam and from what I can tell spent the money on the heads where the power comes from. Thats still way less then your 4.9 install and it makes more power!!
What I find hilarious is that people wanting to do a SBC swap are always talked into a 350 swap and NOT a 305 swap. I hear it all the time. "If you are going to do a SBC swap might as well do the 350 and not the 305 so you can get more power". However you 4.9 owners dont' even have a 305 CI engine. Its a tad less then that. However you will prob turn around and tell someone to go with a 350 swap. Weird huh? If you think a 305 SBC is a waste of time to install then why would you install a 4.9?
This is not a 4.9 bash post by me. its just me saying that if you want to make good power from the 60 degree you have to spend the money in the right places and spend more then a few hundred dollars. It can be done though. Even The cost of your install of $2500 and I can have a 60 degree motor that makes more then 200 hp and weighs less too.
I dont' even remember the point to all of this.
------------------ JM / SH
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06:55 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
orief if i put a carb and edelbrock intake on my stock 2.8 i can get around 200 hp cause that would be awsome
No, You need more work to get to 200hp. Flow is the key to power. Since you live near me, There is a place called United Service in Palatine that does excellent work on the cast heads. Once you increase flow thru the heads, You will need a cam with a decent lift to get it into the cylinders. Then a free-flowing exhaust to get the spent air out. Opening up the intake can be done inexpesively by going to a carb set-up. Even if there was a fuel injection intake that has the flow required, You still need to get it thru the heads and cylinders. The thing that most people don't realize is that if you change something on your engine, In order to get decent power gains you need to mod all that is in the path. My 3.4L wasn't just slapped together, I matched everything from carb to exhaust. All flow rates were checked and a lot of time was spent researching parts.
I would rather spend the $5k or so on a nice 2.8-3.4 pushrod motor then $2500 to install a 4.9 turd motor. You spent $2500 to get 200 hp well I spent $500 to get 200 hp out of my 2.8. so looks like I am still way ahead of you.
Whats the exact recipe for the $500 200hp 2.8L?
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11:56 PM
Aug 15th, 2004
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
The 2.8 is a turd, Get another engine.... And 500bucks to have a 2.8 at 200hp ? How do you get a 2.8 to run at 200hps for 500buck? Drive off a cliff and buy another fiero for 500bucks ?
No flame intended against 2.8s but I do not see any truth in 200hps for only 500bucks out of a tired 2.8. Please make me a believer and enlighten us on how you obtained this? I mean a rebuild is more then that LOL
Anyway with 5k I would do either a 3.8 sc, SBC or 4.9.
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-15-2004).]
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11:56 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The 2.8 is a turd, Get another engine.... And 500bucks to have a 2.8 at 200hp ? How do you get a 2.8 to run at 200hps for 500buck? Drive off a cliff and buy another fiero for 500bucks ?
No flame intended against 2.8s but I do not see any truth in 200hps for only 500bucks out of a tired 2.8. Please make me a believer and enlighten us on how you obtained this? I mean a rebuild is more then that LOL
Anyway with 5k I would do either a 3.8 sc, SBC or 4.9.
If I remember correctly he using the juice (NOS). 1FST2M6 had a juiced 2.8L and he was running in the 12's in the 1/4 mile. He had somewhere around 250hp to the wheels (yes he had it dyno'd) For about $400 you can get a basic kit. You can search the archives and read all about it and see the dyno graph.
