There comes a time in an old fiero's life where it can find a carring owner get it running in virtually tip top shape and it wants some nice clothes to crisin its "beauty"

hey guys, i'm gonna paint my fiero soon and i was looking for some tips. i know a guy with a gun so i'm going to be doing most of the work myself - i owe him a dinner. i have absolutely no experience in paint and look for all comments. 85 gt colors: black w/ grey body kit thing at the bottom (just like stock)

-i did a search but got kind of impatient and excited to let everyone know whats up (i'll go look some more after this post)

questions that come to mind...

1. what kind of prep?
2. what kind of paint (what will bond well with the fiero) - where can i get it? - costs?
3. how much should i get.
4. obviously there will be expensive and cheap paints (as with anything) - pros/cons of each?
5. undercoats, clear coats, protective layers to keep from chipping (does that exist)?

-any answers, tips, or anything else you think will help me is greatly appreciated
-since im getting a very cheap paint job ($0 for labor) i think im pretty willing to get some real nice paint.

[This message has been edited by salo4587 (edited 06-08-2004).]

Well, you ask a few good questions. There are several threads on preping and painting your Fiero yourself, but I'll give you a run through.

First, do you have a place to work? You are going to need a garage that's relatively clean for working, even though it's going to get dusty while you are working. When you are ready to paint, you can hang plastic on the walls to make yourself a paint booth.

Second, do you have the tools? You'll need a compressor for a dual action orbital sander ( D/A ), the D/A itself, a decent paint gun, and a high speed variable buffer with buffing pads.

I'm going to give you a quick rundown with my techniques. Rogergarrison has a slightly different way, others have slightly different ways, so what I'm going to say isn't the only way. Please keep that in mind. All of our techniques work....

Prep: Clean the car. Wash it down with a good detergent to remove anything that's stuck to it. I use Dawn dishwashing liquid first and really scrub the car and let the soap sit for a while. Then I use a wax and grease remover for anything that's left.

When I paint a car, I remove as much of the trim as possible. How far you go is up to you, but I go so far as to remove body panels so I can paint the hidden areas and not have tape lines. Others leave the car assembled and just mask off everything. It's up to you, but remove what you want at this point.

If you have paint on your car that's flaking off, cracked, or just plain gone, you need to sand down those areas of the car and get rid of the bad paint. New paint is going to adhere to the paint under it, and if it's flaking off or cracking, the new paint will just become like the paint under it. So, sand the old finish down as far as you have to, just so you have a good, solid surface. You might have to sand down to the factory primer, or maybe just remove the original clear, if the original base color is good. You'll know when you start sanding. I use 180 grit sandpaper on a D/A to remove old paint, and I use 320 on a D/A just to sand the surface if it's in good enough shape to paint over. If you have to remove a lot of paint, and you get down to the fibrglass or plastic, you'll need to use a primer. I use a 2 part urethane primer, but there are certainly other types. Talk with the guys you are going to buy your paint from. In areas that you cannot get to with the D/A, you can either sand by hand with the 320 or you can use a red Scotchbrite, which is a scuff pad. The idea is to scratch up the entire paint surface so the shine is gone. New paint will not adhere to a shiny surface.

Once you have your car sanded and primed, you can get ready for paint. There are different brands, and I don't know what you have near you for paint stores. I use PPG products, and mostly the Deltron line, which is a poly-urethane base/clear system. Whatever system you use is a little different from others, so I'm not going to get into any mixing stuff or spraying techniques, but when you mask, use 3M masking tape and masking paper.......not Tuck Tape and newspaper. Newspaper is made of little fibers and will dust up your paint job when you spray. Masking paper doesn't give off any fibers. Do a good job masking and take your time.

Spray the car.

When you are done, then it's time to wet sand and buff. Again, you may have different results with your paint line, but I wetsand with 1500 grit wet paper and polish with 3 different compounds. Talk to your local paint guys and they will point you to the stuff they use and the proper pads and compounds.

I know you are going to have a lot of quetions, so go ahead and ask. This is just a quick rundown. There is certainly more than what I've put up here, but it's just a start.

Good luck!

Mark

bump

thanks mark

I have painted two cars and it's not as easy as it sounds for example if you put a clear coat on after it's painted you could end up with wrinkled paint and greasy finger print can cause whats called fish eye.If the cars been sitting in the sun,the paint could fry (bubble,like a frying pan).You can easily spend $200 or mor for the materials when you could easily spend $100 bucks more and have it sprayed at Mayco or earl Sheib.The quality lyes in the prep work,heres a few tips from a previos post of mine.

Fiero Painting Prep Tips for those preping the car for painting
I had a car painted a Earl Sheib and they did a great job,I chose a nice Dodge viper red.Maco is also a good choice.They both should prep the car for you, thats sanding and primering.But I wanted to make sure it was done right so I sanded the car my self (I didn't primer though).I wanted to make sure the paint wasn't going to peel off.Get your car painted on sale because Maco charges about $550 when it's not on sale.They also charge a little extra for any body work,like cracked paint in the front nose or rear bumper and Im not talking about cracked plastic, just the paint.These hair line cracks will show up again after the car is painted so be sure to fill them your self or have them fill them, includeing any pits you may have (be sure to use the correct bondo,I think it's a flexible plastic.)As for sanding,I would do one piece at a time,(fender,hood,door) unless your energentic and want to do the whole thing in one day.Start by washing the car this will remove surface grit and will help prevent scratches.Buy some wet and dry sand paper (not too course and not too fine you want to avoid scratches) Have a bucket of soapy water(this will help prevent scratches) and a sponge handy,Cut the sand paper (or tear) into squars. Now rub two piece together to break the surface tension (this will reduce scratches, that can show up later)Dip in you bucket of soapy water and start sanding (by hand), the surface should be dull, your Not removeing the paint completely, just dulling the surface and be carefull all the body parts are plastic so dont use a sanding block because you could shave off a corner. Pay close attention to detail like nooks and cranies (the edge of the hood and were the fenders fold over the top and trunk area.) Rinse your sand paper often and hose off the paint residue,this will greately reduce scratches.When your finished wash the car again and you will may see some shiney spots that you missed sand those.You will probubly end up washing the car at least 3 times or more.Make sure you sand all the shiney spots because this will prevent what is called Fish Eye.Thats were you get a small circle due to the paint being unable to cling to the shiney area.If you want it done right do one to two body pieces a day (removal is not necessary).When you take the car in you will have your choice of paints, includeing metal flake or Peral or both. The metal flake and Peral cost extra and so does painting the door jams, but the door jams can be painted by you prior to painting the car.Be sure to get the Clear Coat and UV protection.They also charge extra to sand and repair pealing paint (Total coast Varries, I paid $350).Be sure to remove any Tar around the lower body panels.After all this is done you end up with a $2,000 paint job

1st thing is go down to a body shop and buy him lunch, and ask him if you can hang around for a spray and see how them do prep work. This is not like spray painting something, not at all!
2nd read this:
(1 gal) 3919S Prep-Sol solvent for de-waxing and cleaning /
preparing the car
(1 gal) 7175S ChromaBase Base maker This turns the 1KM into
base paint
(1 qt) V7585S Activator for the clear coat only
(1 gal) V7500S Clear coat
(1 gal) 1KM Base you pick the color (reds and blues are
expensive) But they look great.
(1 gal) Virgin lacquer thinner for clean up of gun only
I would also purchase:

(1) 32038 3M 400 grit wet or dry Imperial sand paper
(2) 32023 3M 1500 grit wet or dry Imperial sand paper
(2) 32044 3M 2000 grit wet or dry Imperial sand paper
(1) 3M series 5000 respirator disposable Please use this. Isocyanates
are a nasty thing.
(2) Generic air line dryers and oil filters
(3) 3M Scotch masking tape rolls of 3/4"
(1) Roll of 1" masking tape 3M
(1) Roll of fine line tape 1/4" vinyl very thin 3M
(6) 10' x 20' 2 mil plastic tarps
(1) Rubber sanding block
(2) 39004 3M Super duty heavy cut rubbing compound
(1) 05993 3M Liquid polish

3rd:
The first thing is to wash the car. I used a lot of soap and a good sponge.
As I washed it, I scrubbed every square inch very well. I then rinsed and
dried the car.
The second step was to remove all of the tar and bugs. This was not too
difficult.
De-wax and degrease using Prep-sol. You may want to do this step two -
three times depending on how often you waxed your car. Reason being is that
the build up can be pretty thick. I used the Prep-Sol by wetting a clean
cloth and wiping over the entire car, bumpers and all rough and smooth
paint. This was to remove all waxes and residues. I did this twice. It
actually makes the car look great, until it evaporates. On the last
application of Prep-Sol wipe on and wipe dry at the same time.
Wet sanding. This will create a mess. This is where your arms get the work
out. Use clear water in a bucket. Use 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. I
cut mine into strips 3 inches wide by 8.5 inches long. I folded it in half
and half again. (abrasive side out). Dip the sandpaper into the bucket
and get it wet. Wet the car as well. I found it works best to keep the
panel you are sanding wet at all times. Just like you are waxing use
circular motions about 4" in diameter. You will have to rinse out your
sandpaper as you begin to rough up the paint. As you start you will see a
white foam start to form. This is the clear coat. As you proceed you will
begin to see a foam the color of your car appear. At this point you are
through the clear coat. It is not totally necessary to go through the clear
but in some cases you need to know how deep you are going. Paint is not
very thick. Watch out for curved areas and sharper corners as you can
quickly sand through them and hit the plastic. Use your other hand to feel
the surface as you go to see if it is smooth to the touch.
Wet sanding rough spots. In some locations you will have heavily oxidized
paint. Mine was the roof and hood. At this point I used a 320 grit wet or
dry sandpaper. Be careful because this is more abrasive than a 400 grit.
After it is smooth to the touch use a 400 grit to remove the deeper
scratches left by the 320 grit.
Wash the car thoroughly. After you are happy with the sanding it is time
to wash the car. Use a good sponge and a little soap. Wash with the sponge
in one hand and follow by wiping with your other hand to loosen any residue
that may be clinging to the surface. Dry the car with a towel. Don't let
it air dry by itself. This will further remove any residue.
Prep-Sol the surface again. Use the same procedure as before. Wipe on and
leave it to air dry and then wipe on and immediately wipe off.
Inspection and preparation of your "garage". At this point you should see
the entire car look very hazy. Inspect that the car has been sanded
completely over every square inch. If you need to do some touch up sanding
now is the time. The car will have basically the same color as before but
there will be no shine. (Mine was black and after I sanded it was gray).
This tells you that the entire surface is roughed up. I hung tarps all
around the garage, on the ceiling and floor. Believe it or not the fumes
from the paint kill bugs and they love to fall on the hood of the car you
are trying to paint.
Body work / repairs. If needed (mine did not) all repairs should now be
performed. Instructions are on the container of what ever you use. Talk
with your paint dealer on application techniques and working times and
tools. Sand to smooth once completed and remove all dust and residue using
Prep-sol.
Pre-masking. Disconnect the battery! When you spray paint / primer goes
everywhere, even into tiny openings. I don't recommend removing the plastic
trim around the windshield but if that is your preference then go ahead.
Prior to masking you can remove all the trim, door handles, ornaments and
mirrors. I did not remove any of these items. I used a product from 3M
called fine line tape. This is a thin vinyl tape that stretches and curves
to form to the contour of any surface. It is thinner than conventional
masking tapes so it will leave less of a witness line (raised area where the
paint stops). I used 1/4" to cover all the windshield seal, around the
mirror bases, around the antenna base, sunroof gasket that meets the roof,
metal trim over the top of the windows. The purpose of this tape is to give
you a place to stick the regular masking tape. You do not have to cover a
whole item with this. I used one piece to run along the windshield seal
just where it meets with the roof. It will take you some time to mask this
off the way you want it.
Masking. After masking with the fine line tape you can mask with the
regular masking tape. You can purchase masking paper for large areas like
the windshield or use a couple of layers of newspaper. It is your choice.
With whatever you use, you will invariably run into a spot that curves.
Simply fold the paper to follow the contour and stretch the masking tape to
cover the rest. Yes, masking tape will bend a little. Just pull and press
into place, it will stick. I recommend removing the tail light assemblies.
Roll the wire harnesses up, twist tie and remove the bulbs. You may want to
mask the sockets to keep them clean. Mask off and cover the engine. You
can remove the trunk gasket but mine was brittle so I did not. You will be
painting the underside of the hood and deck lid (if you are changing the
color) so cover the labels, etc. with masking tape or fine line tape. If
your labels are loose or peeling off you can use a heavy layer of Petroleum
Jelly to cover it and then wipe it off after the car has dried. Be
extremely careful if you use this because wherever the Vaseline goes the
paint will not adhere. Mask off under the hood as well. Cover all with
sheets of paper. Cover everything. Make sure the overlaps of paper are
taped off so no overspray can get in there. If you are going to paint the
door jambs as well, you will need to leave the doors opened so that they
don't get painted shut. (Disconnect that battery or it will be dead!) To do
this you will need to mask off the entire door opening to the inside of the
car. Hang paper over the entire opening and make sure it is tightly closed.
Paint on an interior will not come out.
Prep-sol again. Doing this will remove any oils left behind from your hands
and lint / dust during the masking portion. Use one wipe on and wipe off
immediately application.
Leave the hood and deck lid propped open with something. I used a pop can
under the hood spring and left the deck lid down but still open. If your
car has the spoiler remove it. It uses 10mm nuts in (4) locations to secure
it. Hang it for painting. Note: the studs and nuts will probably be
rusted. Use WD-40 if you need to but Prep-Sol after to remove any oils.
Paint does not like oil. I also propped the headlight covers up about 1
inch to paint around the sides. I used a spark plug socket on each side to
keep them propped up. (Don't use the headlights to do this, you do not want
them up that high) only enough to paint the sides of the headlight doors.
Spray equipment. At this point you are ready to spray. I used a Binks
Model 62 spray gun with a 66SD tip and a 1 quart cup. I rebuilt the gun
prior to painting to make sure it would work properly. This is a
conventional siphon spray gun. HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) guns are
expensive but you get less overspray. I used a 3/8" diameter 25' air hose.
Set air at 40 psi for base coat application and 32-35 psi for clear (less
overspray). These pressure values are set by the manufacturer of your
paint. I set the gun to a 5 to 6" fan spray vertical. I used a 20 gallon 5
HP air compressor. I installed a disposable air filter/dryer at the inlet
of the gun along with a pressure regulator for quick access. There are
other guns available but be careful of the lesser expensive guns. The paint
will specify a tip size know this if you have to buy a spray gun. You can
get a decent gun for around $100.00.
Spraying (This is largely technique and requires practice for first timers).
If you are spraying the car yourself then follow this closely. Practice
without paint if you need to or if this is your first paint. Use air and an
empty gun to get the feel of it. Whenever filling the cup always pour
through a strainer. I mixed the basemaker with the paint in a 1:1 ratio
(specified by manufacturer) in an empty clean gallon paint can then poured
it into the paint cup of the gun. If you are using plastic flex additives,
add them in the cup of the gun. For clear coat only, add your activator for
the clear in the cup of the gun. Keep the spray gun at least 8 to 10 inches
from the surface you are spraying. Follow the contour of the surface. If
you get too close you will get a puddle or a nice run / sag in your paint.
This is where the paint runs down the side of the car. Base coats are
usually pretty tolerant to this. Don't get in a hurry to apply. Use a
constant motion with the gun. You will usually spray in a left to right and
then back technique. Do it this way: start at the left (press the trigger
as you begin to move right) continue to move to the right, once you stop at
the right let off the trigger if you are going to go back left then press
the trigger when you begin to move. In other words, do not leave the gun
spraying as you switch directions moving right to left or vice versa. Go
one arms length or off the car. If your arm stops moving, stop spraying.
This will prevent spray from collecting at the stop and start points. You
can effectively spray 3 or 4 ft wide on each pass. Overlap each pass about
half starting at the top and working your way down. The way I painted my
hood, roof and decklid was I stood on the side by the front wheel and
started in the middle and went windshield to radiator working my way out
(towards me). I spray the sides of the car first including the front and
back ends then the hood, roof and decklid. In my opinion, this will
prevent overspray from settling on the hood, roof and decklid. Check your
work before you move on to the next application. CLEAN THE GUN OUT WHEN YOU
SWITCH MATERIALS. I used Lacquer thinner for this. Primer, clean gun, base
paint, clean gun, clear, clean gun.
How many coats? I sprayed (3) base coats and (3) clear coats. I use a
mid-temperature paint (70 to 80 degrees ambient temperature). It had a
flash time of 10 minutes. This means that I can re-coat after 10 minutes.
I waited over night to apply the clear. The paint that I used allowed up to
24 hours for clear coat application. If you wait over night, then before
you spray the clear, dust the car off with a dry lint free cloth. I used
about 1/2 gallon of base paint and 1/2 gallon of clear coat. DO NOT MIX
BASE PAINT AND CLEAR COAT. The base paint uses an additive called basemaker
and the clear uses an additive called an activator.
After spraying. Give the car a week or two to cure. Delivery time (cured
and derivable) will be specified on the particular product that you used.
Mine was 24 hours, but I gave it a week. At this time you can do one of two
things: 1. You can be tickled that you did an excellent job and un-mask
everything and be done or 2. You can polish.
Polishing. If you are like me and want a perfect mirror shine then read on.
I used a 1500 grit wet or dry sandpaper and wet sanded the entire vehicle.
This will take some time. I used a firm rubber sanding block to sand the
large flatter areas. Don't apply too much pressure but apply some. You
should work up a light white residue. You will feel the paper grab when you
are getting close. Dry the spot you are working on and look at the
reflection from an angle. (While you are sanding you are looking 90 degrees
to the surface), sight down the side or across the hood to see the images.
Look at the way objects in the room appear. If they are not clear enough
then continue sanding. Once you are happy with that, I used a 2000 grit wet
or dry sandpaper following the same approach. After you are happy with
that, I used a Dewalt 90 degree (angle) polisher to buff the car at 1400
RPM. I used the hook and loop foam rubbing pad (made for polishers) it is
about 7 inches in diameter, and 3M Super Duty heavy cut liquid rubbing
compound. I followed this by buffing the car three times with a 3M clear
coat safe liquid polishing compound and a new polishing pad at 1800 RPM.
After this I was done. I waited 3 months before I waxed the car to give it
ample time to dry out.

Its that easy????

------------------
Bobby from NW Indiana
86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon
thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net

Wow GSXRBOBBY! You have written what nobody else has the patience to write. I have to send a + out to you for typing so much. Is there going to be a book out in the near future?

------------------
BlueGT

Good write ups, but im still amazed at how much paint you guys use. Me and Mark routinely do Fieros with a bit more than a quart of paint and a quart of clear. With a gallon, I could do a couple of Lincoln stretch limos.....and a Fiero...

Im doing the hood and left side of an Intrepid in maroon. I bought a 1/2 pint and gave it 2 full coats before clearing.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-10-2004).]

Maybe we aren't using enough paint?

wow, thanks alot for your ranting posts guys.

+'s for everyone

keep em comin

[This message has been edited by salo4587 (edited 06-10-2004).]

Ya Mark. But that only applies to candies. OEM colors are not transparent. Once it covered, more coats wont do a thing. All ive ever had that needed more than 2 basecoat coats were some yellows, oranges and reds. Even gold and silver cover completely with 2 coats.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ya Mark. But that only applies to candies. OEM colors are not transparent. Once it covered, more coats wont do a thing. All ive ever had that needed more than 2 basecoat coats were some yellows, oranges and reds. Even gold and silver cover completely with 2 coats.

That fits my experience, too. I don't know what to suggest, but I end up with excellent results, as do you.

Mark

just what I have been looking for great posts Firefox, James Bond 007, and GSXRBOBBY if I could rate you all its a +++++

Dodger