I have read till my eyes are swollen and this is the setup that looks like goes with the 4T60E. First off, its a 3800 SC out of a 96 Regal going into a 88. From what I have read I use--Left axle from a manual Fiero on the right side and a left axle from a 90 Pontiac 6000 with 4T60 and light duty brakes for the left side. Looking at auto parts stores online,it list 3 or 4 speed auto ,which of the 2 would be the correct one? .This should be a direct fit with no modifications involved. If this is correct, where is the best place to get these axles from? If its not correct please give me the correct setup.Starting the swap and trying to get everything needed ahead of time.

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 02-02-2004).]

this was an issue for me when i installed a 4t60e into my 88gt. i used gm tranny mounts in the same position as the stock fiero auto tranny. here is a link describing how i solved this problem, it's near the bottom of the first page.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/038137.html

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I have read till my eyes are swollen and this is the setup that looks like goes with the 4T60E. First off, its a 3800 SC out of a 96 Regal going into a 88. From what I have read I use--Left axle from a manual Fiero on the right side and a left axle from a 90 Pontiac 6000 with 4T60 and light duty brakes for the left side. Looking at auto parts stores online,it list 3 or 4 speed auto ,which of the 2 would be the correct one? .This should be a direct fit with no modifications involved. If this is correct, where is the best place to get these axles from? If its not correct please give me the correct setup.Starting the swap and trying to get everything needed ahead of time.

If you have the 96 Buick engine and trans you will need the Buick right inner shaft. What I found out in my swap was the 96 4t60E is an HD, making the inner pod splins different. You have the 4 speed auto. You can still use the fiero outter part.

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" TARGET=_blank>http://www.fiero.mn.org

86 GT, 18" wheels, GA CD brakes, ST brace, Leather, 3800 Supercharged,DVD-LCD, ZEX NOS
88 Formula 5 speed T-Top stock
88 GT,Leather,T-Top,3800 SC 5 speed.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lowfierogt:

If you have the 96 Buick engine and trans you will need the Buick right inner shaft. What I found out in my swap was the 96 4t60E is an HD, making the inner pod splins different. You have the 4 speed auto. You can still use the fiero outter part.

Explain:
So what exactly do I need for 2 complete axles. Could you explain a litte more,One thing I have never dealt with was the axles on a car. The 4T60E and the HD have differant inner pod splines?

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 02-02-2004).]

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: [QUOTE]Originally posted by lowfierogt: If you have the 96 Buick engine and trans you will need the Buick right inner shaft. What I found out in my swap was the 96 4t60E is an HD, making the inner pod splins different. You have the 4 speed auto. You can still use the fiero outter part. Explain: So what exactly do I need for 2 complete axles. Could you explain a litte more,One thing I have never dealt with was the axles on a car. The 4T60E and the HD have differant inner pod splines?

The easy way to make your axles is:

1. buy a passenger axles from a 1996 buick 3800 supercharged from AutoZone. Cost about 80.00 or go to www-car-parts.com and find one. not easy to find a used one.
2. Buy a used or new drivers side manual transmission fiero Axles any year.

3. take the inner part off your buick axle. You can reuse your new boots on the buick axles if you got it new.
4. take the inner part off your fiero Axle. If you want take outer part off and use new boot. You don't have to. Just suggesting if you spend 80 on an axle I would get the most out of it.
5. put your buick inner pod on the fiero axles and you should be good to go.

Give me a + if I helped in anyway.
E-mail or pm if you need more help.

[This message has been edited by lowfierogt (edited 02-02-2004).]

quote Left axle from a manual Fiero on the right side

I've used that on several cars without any problems at all, but it is a bit shorter than it should be. I did find that it was too short on an '88, maybe the '88s are a bit wider in the rear track?. In that case I swapped in a RH shaft from a 3800 Transport van, and kept the Fiero joints.

quote a left axle from a 90 Pontiac 6000 with 4T60 and light duty brakes for the left side

Works for me every time.

If you don't mind getting greasy, there are lots of combinations that work. If you don't want to get greasy, call CV Unlimited and ask for a set of '94 Transport van 3800 axles but with the smaller outer CV joints to fit the Fiero. They cost me $205 and slide right in.

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Works for me every time. If you don't mind getting greasy, there are lots of combinations that work. If you don't want to get greasy, call CV Unlimited and ask for a set of '94 Transport van 3800 axles but with the smaller outer CV joints to fit the Fiero. They cost me $205 and slide right in.

So the 94 Transport van 3800 axles with the smaller outer CV joints for the Fiero will fit both sides of the 4T60E(HD) trans with no modifications. Will be the right length and should slide right in?

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Works for me every time. If you don't mind getting greasy, there are lots of combinations that work. If you don't want to get greasy, call CV Unlimited and ask for a set of '94 Transport van 3800 axles but with the smaller outer CV joints to fit the Fiero. They cost me $205 and slide right in.

Ka-Ching! Ask for Manual trans outer CV's. Those fit the large 4T60E axles. The auto Fiero uses a smaller axle. Also, the E trans uses a shorter shaft than the non-E trans is won't work.

94 Ciera 4T60E axles with Fiero manual trans outer CVs. This worked for two 86's that were converted.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-03-2004).]

94 Pontiac Transport 3800 axles with Fiero manual trans outer CVs.[/QUOTE]

And these will work on the 4T60E(HD) when going into and 88?

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 02-03-2004).]

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Works for me every time. If you don't mind getting greasy, there are lots of combinations that work. If you don't want to get greasy, call CV Unlimited and ask for a set of '94 Transport van 3800 axles but with the smaller outer CV joints to fit the Fiero. They cost me $205 and slide right in.

will not work on right side with the 1996 transmission.

[This message has been edited by lowfierogt (edited 02-05-2004).]

quote Originally posted by lowfierogt: will not work on right side.

Will not work on the right side because the axle will be to short--right? I am finallly putting together what everyone is saying.

Is 88 different then 84-87?
If it's is... don't pay any attenton to the rest of this!!
If it's not... My 85 with 3800SC 4T60E used the following;
Left side- Left Manual Fiero axle with the outer C/V left alone and the inner tri-loble from the 95 Buick Riviera donor.
Right side- Left auto Buick donor axle with the inner tri-loble left alone and the outer Fiero C/V.

In other words, I went from a 4cyl./5spd to a 3800SC/ 4T60E from a 95 Buick Riviera. The donor motor and trans came with the axles.
I had everything I needed to make it work.
If memory serves me, the bare axle, without C/V or tri-loble is 14" on the left and the right is 15"
Kevin

Oh yeah... you have to take the right side Fiero outer C/V completely apart to use the "star-shaped" piece from the Buick outer C/V so it will fit the Buick axle

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85 Fiero-based ASPP GT-40 MarkII. 3800 S/C, Auto, Held suspension all around with 2" drop spindles and sport fr. end. RCC bump-steer correction. Mr. Mike's interior.

[This message has been edited by GT40 Kit 3.8 SC (edited 02-03-2004).]

quote Originally posted by lowfierogt: will not work on right side.

Oops, it just dawned on me that I used 94 A-body axles not U-Van. Those worked for me. I will edit my comment above. I don't now if they would work on an 88.

What did you find?

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-03-2004).]

Well,just started looking around on auto parts sites and ran into a problem. I was told the motor and trans that I have came from a 96 Buick Regal GS but from what I see on the auto part sites, the Regal GS didnt come out till 97. So now I am not forsure if I have a 96 motor with the 4T60E(HD) or a 97 motor with the 4T60E(HD). Is there a way to tell the year of the motor off the block or I read the 4T60E trans were marked on the pan(not forsure if thats true) with 4T60E? Anyone have any adice for me?

96 was the only year the SC engines used the 4T60EHD. They switched to the 4T65E in 97. I believe the 4T60E lived on longer on the non-SC engines.

4T60E's have 4T60E stamped in the bottom pan of the trans. They also have a vacumm modulator near the wiring connectors whereas the 4T65Es don't have the modulator.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-03-2004).]

quote will not work on right side.

I have used the '94 3800/4T60E minivan axles on three 4T60E Fiero swaps, two '88 and one '86. In all three cases the axles were a perfect fit just by changing the outer joints to manual Fiero joints. In one case I ordered them from CV Unlimited with the correct outer joints already installed, and they fit right in. The other two cases I got stock minivan axles and just swapped the outer joints myself. I've never broken and axle or had one come apart.

Thank everyone for there help and input on this subject. To bad I had a massive brain fart when looking into this subject and then even worse posting about it. Hopefully other that read the post got something out of it. I thought for some reason(maybe it was being up for 18 hours) that the motor I had was out of a 96 Buick Regal but after looking and making a call to the friend I got the motor from. I found that is a 97 out of a Buick Park Ave. That would mean it has a 4T65E(HD) in it and not the 4T60E(HD), so everything I have asked was pointless for me. But I still wanna thank everyone for there help on the subject. I think I have read what axles I need for the 4T65E(HD) but if anyone wants to put in any input on it,feel free. I need all the help I can get-lol

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: I have used the '94 3800/4T60E minivan axles on three 4T60E Fiero swaps, two '88 and one '86. In all three cases the axles were a perfect fit just by changing the outer joints to manual Fiero joints. In one case I ordered them from CV Unlimited with the correct outer joints already installed, and they fit right in. The other two cases I got stock minivan axles and just swapped the outer joints myself. I've never broken and axle or had one come apart.

I want to clear this up with you, The 1996 4t60e-hd is different then any other 4t60e and the inner splins are different. I know about the other years and they will work as you said. If you have worked with the 96 trans you would know they are all by them self. For your or anyone's future refence the 96 is different.

This is a great thread,can anyone tell me if this info is valid for the 4T60 (not E ) i hope to do this upgrade when i get back to the U.S. but i will be keeping the 2.8 so i wont be using the electronic vesion. TIA

Mustangsbeware: Would you mind telling me what you finally used for axles on your 3800/4t65EHD setup in your 88. I think I've got the right side done using the riviera 3800/4t65EHD donor left side axle and inner tripot cv and using the fiero bearing race (fits on axle spline) on the outer CV. I just need to get the length right now. For the left side I'm not sure. Can you help me here?

Thanks,

Bill

Does anyone know what axles to use when doing a 4T65E/3800 swap on an 87 chassis? There seems to be alot of dicussion about the 4T60E. Any input would be appreciated!!

quote Originally posted by mvstar: This is a great thread,can anyone tell me if this info is valid for the 4T60 (not E ) i hope to do this upgrade when i get back to the U.S. but i will be keeping the 2.8 so i wont be using the electronic vesion. TIA

On my th440 I used axles from a 89 pontiac 6000 4speed auto with lightduty brakes both sides work awsome for me on the th440. From what I hear the th 440 is the same as the 4t60

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 06-17-2004).]

What about a 4t65e trans using WCF mounts? Same as the 4t60e or different? Suggestions?

quote Originally posted by gangrenefiero: What about a 4t65e trans using WCF mounts? Same as the 4t60e or different? Suggestions?

Two Fiero Drivers side manual transmission axles, mated to the GTP inner Tripot cups. That's what I've used, and it works great....

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Ok two manual fieros, but will the boot fit over the GTP tripot? the stock auto trans axle boot will not, the gtp tripot is much bigger.

bump

Hi... Came across this post from another one asking about the swap, and just wanted to throw in my experience... Watch out if you get a '98 or '99 Riviera or Park Ave. (I think Park Ave... Doh!) After much cursing, and wondering how everyone could be wrong about what axles to use, it turns out that for those 2 years, on those cars only, the 4T65E-HD had a larger Passenger side axle output shaft in the tranny... For what reason, who knows... But I bought so many axles that didn't work it wasn't even funny. GTP didn't fit, Pont. 6000 didn't fit, Fiero didn't fit, only a '98 or '99 Riv. or Park Ave axle would fit. I now have the correct ends, but I'm 2" too long on the Pass side, and no amount of moving the snap ring is making that thing fit. I swear my engine is sitting more to the Pass. side in my car than everyone else's... I found a replacement shaft that should work, but have to get off my butt and re-measure so I can order the right one. But just for anyone who comes back to read this thread in the future for info, *beware* of the '98/'99 Riviera and Park Ave. (The pulleys and oil filter block need to be changed also anyway...) You're better off going with a GTP motor in the first place!!!! Or keep your Getrag if you have one!

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Bob Williams
Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (3800SC installation in super-super-ssuuppeerr-slow-motion progress... Done for Kansas? Riiiiiiiight....)

I figure I might as well throw in my experience as well. I put a 4T60E in a 1985 Fiero. Going off sombody else's incorrect advice, I bought '94 4T60E Beretta axles. The drivers side fit fine, but the passenger side was too short. I ended up using the short axle from the donor car ('94 4T60E Grand Prix) with the outer from the short Beretta axle. Fits perfect.

In general for a 4T60 / 4T60E swap, it is good to look at A cars and U vans for parts because their track width and cradles are pretty similar to the Fiero.