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13B in a fiero???? by Godson
Started on: 02-23-2004 01:27 PM
Replies: 20
Last post by: Godson on 03-06-2004 02:18 PM
Godson
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Report this Post02-23-2004 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodsonClick Here to Email GodsonSend a Private Message to GodsonDirect Link to This Post
Ok I know that the rotaries are light potent little engines and I am a big fan of them for quite some time, does anyone know if it would possible to get a 13B into a Fiero, and if so, what sort of tranny mods would you have to do?

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DustoneGT
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Report this Post02-23-2004 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DustoneGTSend a Private Message to DustoneGTDirect Link to This Post
Azarael is working on one right now...
He is putting it into an 87 GT.
He is using a 4 speed transmission. He says the clutch size is the same
and should fit with an adapter plate (in theory).
He is putting a 13B from an 87 turbo II RX-7.
The turbo will fit in the area behind the motor, and he is going to have
west coast fiero build him some mounts.

I'm going to have to see this car when he is building it.
Hopefully he will chime in with more details...

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Godson
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Report this Post02-23-2004 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodsonClick Here to Email GodsonSend a Private Message to GodsonDirect Link to This Post
If I did it I would not use the Turboed version simplydue to the fact that I can get a hold of one cheaper NA and I am not a big fan of Turbos.

Might have to get a hold of him to see how it is going together.

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Tugboat
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Report this Post02-23-2004 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
I'm very interested in how he's doing this - I've been thinking about the same thing with a 12A. The problem I've come up against is the rotaries exhaust ports are where the right tri-pot and axle need to be. How do you get around this? Especially with a turbo?

How are you mounting the starter?

I've been thinking about using a VW tranny, there are adapter kits out there for them and they can be set up mid-engine easily. That leaves mounting and adapting axles, clutch, and shift linkage. But it would leave lots of room for exhaust, turbo, etc. at the expense of part of the trunk.

Thanks and GL

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red85gt
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Report this Post02-23-2004 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for red85gtClick Here to visit red85gt's HomePageClick Here to Email red85gtSend a Private Message to red85gtDirect Link to This Post
I recently got to drive a 13B Datsun lol . It is a NA with a 4 barrel carb and a 5 speed trans. What a insane car its a 72 datsun and the trans is directly connected to the diff. I wasent even using the 4's till near the end of the race. once I had enough straight I punched it and WHAO! the sound is unreal! 3" headers and pipes help I am sure. That little motor will haul most any V8 no prob.

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85 GT 4 speed 2.8L auto X'er

[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 02-23-2004).]

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Tugboat
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Report this Post02-25-2004 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
Bump, 'cause I gotta know -

Dustone, do you think you could call Azarael, I'm really interested in his plans on doing this.

Thanks and GL

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Tugboat
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Report this Post02-29-2004 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
Bump.
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TaurusThug
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Report this Post02-29-2004 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaurusThugClick Here to Email TaurusThugSend a Private Message to TaurusThugDirect Link to This Post
Bizzump...

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

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Tugboat
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Report this Post03-03-2004 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
One more bump, and I give up. I'm usin' a 914 tranny.

GL

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fieroturbo
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Report this Post03-03-2004 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroturboClick Here to Email fieroturboSend a Private Message to fieroturboDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DustoneGT:

Azarael is working on one right now...
He is putting it into an 87 GT.
He is using a 4 speed transmission. He says the clutch size is the same
and should fit with an adapter plate (in theory).
He is putting a 13B from an 87 turbo II RX-7.
The turbo will fit in the area behind the motor, and he is going to have
west coast fiero build him some mounts.

I'm going to have to see this car when he is building it.
Hopefully he will chime in with more details...

If Chris West is getting involved with it (making mounts), then it should be spectacular, and for all we know, he'll make an adaptor kit.

I strongly considered going rotary, and started doing research to see if a Mazda FWD tranny would fit, and I think the 626 tranny (Might) bolt up, but shift linkages and axles would be a pain.

I decided to go with a Turbo Ecotec (like in Saturn Ion's and Chevy Cavaliers) instead, simply because the Ecotec would be a great combination with the Fiero. Hey, it worked well for the Opel Speedster, similar to Fiero's, and it has a GREAT Getrag with it.

The Rotary is a really "exotic" combination with the Fiero, but there is lots of potential.

If someone made a kit, I'd buy it, but I think I'll skip doing a custom build.

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Airman Michael C Casaceli
Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy
1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (project starts in MARCH 2004)
1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford)
1994 Chevy S-10 4.3....COMING THIS WEEK!!!

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Godson
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Report this Post03-03-2004 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodsonClick Here to Email GodsonSend a Private Message to GodsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroturbo:
...If someone made a kit, I'd buy it, but I think I'll skip doing a custom build....

Ditto

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DustoneGT
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Report this Post03-04-2004 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DustoneGTSend a Private Message to DustoneGTDirect Link to This Post
Let me call him up...
I'll let him know he is gathering a following on this.
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Tugboat
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Report this Post03-04-2004 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroturbo:


If Chris West is getting involved with it (making mounts), then it should be spectacular, and for all we know, he'll make an adaptor kit.

I strongly considered going rotary, and started doing research to see if a Mazda FWD tranny would fit, and I think the 626 tranny (Might) bolt up, but shift linkages and axles would be a pain.

I decided to go with a Turbo Ecotec (like in Saturn Ion's and Chevy Cavaliers) instead, simply because the Ecotec would be a great combination with the Fiero. Hey, it worked well for the Opel Speedster, similar to Fiero's, and it has a GREAT Getrag with it.

The Rotary is a really "exotic" combination with the Fiero, but there is lots of potential.

If someone made a kit, I'd buy it, but I think I'll skip doing a custom build.

The Ecotec is a fantastic little motor and being a bolt up is a plus. I like the light weight and power potential, but I want to play with a rotary. I'm not sure why, maybe the simplicity (3 basic moving parts), the smoothness, or the power potential. I'm aware that GM got close to 800 HP out of a Ecotec, but it had some pretty heavy mods. I've seen similar claims for turbo'd 12As but I'm not sure what's involved there.

I don't know if a 626 tranny would bolt up but you would have the same problem with the exhaust/axle, as it's still a transverse setup. I've pretty much settled on a 914 tranny to avoid problems with exhaust. They are available reasonably and handle good power. Adapters are available. Shift linkage is a shift/select setup, should be adaptable. Clutch linkage shouldn't be too big a problem. Axles are going to be the bear, I'm looking into that. The tail of the tranny might intrude into the trunk a bit, but there would be room for exhaust or a turbo.

GL

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natnov
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Report this Post03-04-2004 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for natnovClick Here to Email natnovSend a Private Message to natnovDirect Link to This Post
Anyone tried to tilt the 13B forward so that the exhaust ports would clear the top of the axle? Just a thought...the size of the 13B rotaries would leave you plenty of room but since it's eccentric shafts centerline is high in the motor, unlike most piston motors(aside from boxer subaru motors) it would sit very low in the car.
Nate
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Tugboat
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Report this Post03-04-2004 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
Oil drainback would be a problem in a 12A, I can only assume the 13B too. In the center housing there is an oil drain channel, part of it runs at an angle for some reason, possibly because it runs over the water jacket there. Tilting the ports down would let the oil return quicker but not solve the problem. Tilting the ports up would impede drainback if you went far enough to do any good. Oil cools the rotors internally, so the flow has to be right. You also don't want it backing up next to the seals. I had considered that, looking at needing a custom pan & pickup, and intake.

Yeah, it's shaped about like a barrel, with the eccentric shaft in the middle. But the flywheel's still the lowest part.

Putting it longitudinally may give me room to play with one of these:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng/muffler.gif

GL

[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 03-04-2004).]

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StansGT
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Report this Post03-04-2004 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for StansGTClick Here to Email StansGTSend a Private Message to StansGTDirect Link to This Post
not interested in turbos........ hmmm,, wierd, there must be a automotive warp going on here?
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Tugboat
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Report this Post03-05-2004 10:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
Non-turbo rotaries (with the exception of the 6 port) don't have a whole lot of torque, (but they love to rev)especially when you mod them for more power. Then a free flowing (loud) exhaust is mandatory. A turbo can be added fairly easily.

I'm planning to start with a street ported 12A (the same 13B would make better power) but unless I can add a turbo, it won't really be worth the trouble.

I'm finding out the 914 tranny may not have the best ratios for a rotary, one guy claimed 110 in third with a stock motor. Also first gear is pretty weak, and they're hard to shift to second. Beefed VW tranny? Bug, Bus, Thing? More surfing!

GL

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Godson
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Report this Post03-06-2004 02:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GodsonClick Here to Email GodsonSend a Private Message to GodsonDirect Link to This Post
man tugboat you have my vote on getting the info figured out if you can pull this off as I am thinking on either using the 3.4 DOHC or a 13B. Let's see what we can all com up with togeher.

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white86
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Report this Post03-06-2004 03:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for white86Click Here to Email white86Send a Private Message to white86Direct Link to This Post
hey...i'm in rolla and i have a NA 13b that i don't really want. want it?
i don't think it would be too hard to fit it in a fiero...the thing's really small!
just needs the right clutch and flywheel and an adapter plate
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Tugboat
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Report this Post03-06-2004 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
I can tell you a 3.4 will be much easier, if a little heavier.

Going longitudinally may also create firewall clearance problems. The engine is only about 16" long but the transaxle adds some. The diff can only be so close to the clutch, it's not offset like a TH425/325.

It would be nice to know it would work with just a flywheel and adapter plate, but I don't see it happening at this point.

If this is too difficult, I may just put it in my Nova. They were only a few hundred pounds heavier, and with the lighter engine, maybe comparable. Ford 5 speed tranny adapters are out there. Nah, the Nova will hold a big block!

GL

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Godson
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Report this Post03-06-2004 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodsonClick Here to Email GodsonSend a Private Message to GodsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by white86:

hey...i'm in rolla and i have a NA 13b that i don't really want. want it?
i don't think it would be too hard to fit it in a fiero...the thing's really small!
just needs the right clutch and flywheel and an adapter plate

I don't think I want to tackle anything right now in turns of this complexity but I have a friend who has an 88 Rex who wants to build up one and I will give him a ring monday and see if he is interested.

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