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FAILED: emissions, timing question by connecticutFIERO
Started on: 02-19-2004 04:18 PM
Replies: 11
Last post by: IcantDo55 on 02-19-2004 11:08 PM
connecticutFIERO
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Report this Post02-19-2004 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
ANyhow these were the results that the car got.

2.8 V6

HC (PPM) Limit =179 My Fiero=285
CO (%) Limit= .57 My car =.76
NOx (PPM) Limit = 1250 My Fiero= 3086

Apparently it looks like a lot of unburned gas is getting through my question is should I advance the timing to lean the mixture out a bit? I am installing a cat, but I was wondering if my car is running rich and maybe advancing the timing might help a little bit.

The timing is set to 10-12 degrees, but I was told that I should advance it to 12 to take advantage of the work I did to the engine which is:

2.8
ported exhaust manifolds
ported TB and plenum neck
1.6 roller rockers
underdrive pulley
MSD blaster coil w/ 8 mm plug wires
windage tray


What do you think?


I had to do my emissions testing today. I don't have a catyltic converter but didn't have the time in the last month to install one after getting the letter to go have my car inspected, so I decided to go in pay the $20 and just have it fail before I am considered late. That way I could have a 30 day extension and another test for free, and if I happened to pass without the Cat then fine.

They ran a test before doing the official test just to see if it would pass without the Cat. They are required to visually inspect the cat before performing the emissions test and then they have to confirm with the testing software that there is indeed a cat installed. After I failed the pre test they said they wouldn't officially test it because there is no Cat installed, and it already failed the pre test that they did for me out of courtesy.

I didn't realize that you couldn't even have it tested with no cat, I know it would have failed the test but at least I would have saved a $20 late fee.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 02-19-2004).]

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Arns85GT
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Report this Post02-19-2004 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
I'm no expert but I would put the cat on, run it a few days before the test and fill up on high octane ethanol.

Arn

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intlcutlass
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Report this Post02-19-2004 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for intlcutlassClick Here to Email intlcutlassSend a Private Message to intlcutlassDirect Link to This Post
Put a cat on it, and replace the o2 sensor.

Past that, just make sure the plugs don't have more than 50k on em, and that you don't have aclogged injector. After that you should be fine.

Rodney Dickman has the cats for the Fiero, and they are easy to install , and well worth the $$$


Good luck man....

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connecticutFIERO
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Report this Post02-19-2004 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
Well the engine is new and so are the plugs and O2 sensor. So I know the only problems are related to timing and lack of catylitic converter. I was just wondering if the numbers meant anything to anybody in the way of timing. Oh yeah, and I was also wondering if I would see any evidence of valve float with those numbers. Of course I know very little about valve float or fine tuning an engine, so the test results don't really mean anything to me, except maybe the large amounts of unburned fuel possibly meaning my engine is running rich.
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James Bond 007
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Report this Post02-19-2004 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
Put the cat back on.Advanceing the timeing will cause your car to fail (a check engine light will fail),I know this because thats what they said to the guy at the smog shop,that his timeing was advanced too far (Idleing too fast).Heres a few tips to help pass the smog.
1,Allow the car to heat up.
2.Plugs and wires can be a good investment.A failing plug will cause unburned fuel to travel out the exhaust,causeing a test failure.
3.Distributor cap and rotar,can help,but it depend on how maney miles are on the car.
4.There is a port on the inside bottom of the throttle body,spray some throttle body cleaner in there.
5.Spray some throttle body cleaner in the pivot points of the throttle body (wear safety glasses)Then force some high temperture grease into the pivot points.The throttle body has been known to stick due to varnish build up and can cause the engine to idle higher than normal causeing it to fail.
6.High mileage motors have been known to build up carbon at the EGR tube on the side that attaches to the intake,but that would most likely trigger the check engine light.
7.If your tight on the bucks $$$ then remove the EGR and carfully clean any carbone builup you may see in there.Otherwise you will need to replace the EGR periodically.You should also remove and clean or replace the pcv valve.I recomend changing to new parts periodically.
8.Set the timeing were it's suposed to be.
9.If you removed the thirmistat for some reason or another,you will need to reinstall it,because you car will take much longer to to idle down and may not idle down dureing the test.
10.Exhaust leaks,such as the exhaust manifold gaskets can cause the car to idle up,fix any vacume leaks you may hear or see.

Well, if I missed anything feel free to add more.

[This message has been edited by James Bond 007 (edited 02-19-2004).]

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Phil
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Report this Post02-19-2004 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilClick Here to Email PhilSend a Private Message to PhilDirect Link to This Post
As far as I know the cat willl/should clear the HC and a malfunctioning EGR will give you high NOX
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post02-19-2004 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
James Bond, are you this good all the time?

Nice advice.

Arn

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connecticutFIERO
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Report this Post02-19-2004 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
I'm glad you posted all that info Bond because when someone does a search they will get all the answers to helping an older engine pass. My engine is brand new as is all the ignition, sensors, belts, hoses, and emissions components. Heck even the exhaust is brand new. The only thing I don't have is the cat which I knew I needed to pass emissions anyhow. Thank you for addressing my timing advance question, I guess I will just leave it at 10-12 for now.
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Jncomutt
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Report this Post02-19-2004 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
I'd say ur engine is toast. Time to throw it out and pop in a 3.4..
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connecticutFIERO
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Report this Post02-19-2004 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

I'd say ur engine is toast. Time to throw it out and pop in a 3.4..

(Winds hand back) (releases) ssssssssnnaaapp! (smacks Jnco on side of his head)


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Report this Post02-19-2004 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
The HC high is definitely because of the missing cat. Get one, install it. Set the timing at the factory spec, which should be 10 BTDC per the VECI label under the decklid. Advancing the timing will increase NOX, as will a malfunctioning EGR system. The idle speed is controlled by the ECM so timing will have absolutely no effect on idling. Have you checked for stored trouble codes? Even if the CEL doesn't come on it is still possible for codes to be stored.

JazzMan

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Report this Post02-19-2004 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IcantDo55Click Here to visit IcantDo55's HomePageClick Here to Email IcantDo55Send a Private Message to IcantDo55Direct Link to This Post
Hotter the better. Put a hot thermostat in there and RETARD the timeing, maybe 5* that will also help.

------------------
Mike

85GT 4-Spd 3.4 Stroker, cam, ported intake exhaust and TB. Natural weight reduction in progress(rust).
My other toy: WWW.IcantDo55.com

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