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2.5 experts please help! by Ironfiero12
Started on: 02-02-2004 03:56 PM
Replies: 14
Last post by: befarrer on 02-05-2004 11:35 PM
Ironfiero12
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Report this Post02-02-2004 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ironfiero12Send a Private Message to Ironfiero12Direct Link to This Post
I have an 84 se that i bought from an old man that didnt run. i stripped it down portted the head got a valve job done ......., so i go back to put it all back together with new fuel filter , plugs, wires, rotor, cap etc....... i got a new battery and hooked it all up and doesnt run. lights come on when the key is turned but no fuel pump, no crank trunning over, doesnt click, nothing. so if anyone knows a answer that could help me out i would really appriciate it.
thanks
Carl
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fierohoho
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Report this Post02-02-2004 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierohohoClick Here to Email fierohohoSend a Private Message to fierohohoDirect Link to This Post
Hey Carl welcome to the Forum.

I would say check the two fusible links that attach at the starter where the positive battery cable attaches.

These supply power to pretty much the whole vehicle and are in a high heat area and they don't seem to last too long there.

I had to replace the originals on my 84SE and then the replacements a couple years later, when I did the second set I lengthened the wires and ran them over to the battery where I put on new fusible links, I then got one of those adapters that replace the center bolt on the battery cable with a bolt that has a threaded stud, they sell them where you get the big thumper stereos so you have a large amp attachment point for after markey stuff.

I attached the fusible links there and have had no problems with them since as they are away from the heat for the most part.

Make sure you disconnect the battery first to avoid shorting anything out should they end up being bad.

Did the guy you bought the car from say what happened to it or did he give you an idea as to why it quit running?

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James Bond 007
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Report this Post02-02-2004 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
Just as fierohoho says,and charge the battery,new batteries have been sitting on the shelf for a month or more,plenty of time to go flat.Also check your ground wires like the small one that comes off the negitive side of the battery (this ground has been known to rust because of it's location,you can add an extra ground).Also inspect for broken wires and the fuseable links as fierohoho says, at the wireing harness to the right, rear of the battery.If it still doesn't start inspect for rust or corosion on the contact points at the starter and battery cables (disconnect the battery if you decide to clean them)water has been known to drip down the back of the engine and onto the contact points of the starter.Good Luck..........
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Ironfiero12
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Report this Post02-03-2004 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ironfiero12Send a Private Message to Ironfiero12Direct Link to This Post
ya right after i posted i asked my dad what could be the problem and he gave me the same answer... the starter. he said i should take it out and test it to see if it is even still good, it has been 20 years since the car has been made, and could have been easily siezd up sittign for so long. when i turn the key the fuel pump doesnt go on either is that conected with the starter also?
-Carl
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Jdlog
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Report this Post02-03-2004 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JdlogSend a Private Message to JdlogDirect Link to This Post
No, not to the starter. It is tied to the oil pump, if I remember well. In any case, check the crank errr starter, first. Once things are turning nicely on battery power, the gang here can help you diagnose further down the line.

Welcome, by the way.

Beno

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HitesFiero
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Report this Post02-03-2004 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
I have an 84 se that i bought from an old man that didnt run.

hehe....Are you saying that the old man didn't run or the car?! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I agree with Fierohoho on this one, check your main power distribution point.

Welcome to the forum!

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Don Hites
88 GT, Getrag 5spd, 4.9 v8 with a Delta cam and other heavy mods.
88 Coupe 5spd Duke
(now under restoration)

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yosemitefieros
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Report this Post02-03-2004 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yosemitefierosSend a Private Message to yosemitefierosDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ironfiero12:

I have an 84 se that i bought from an old man that didnt run. i stripped it down portted the head got a valve job done ......., so i go back to put it all back together with new fuel filter , plugs, wires, rotor, cap etc....... i got a new battery and hooked it all up and doesnt run. lights come on when the key is turned but no fuel pump, no crank trunning over, doesnt click, nothing. so if anyone knows a answer that could help me out i would really appriciate it.
thanks
Carl

I had one of my Fieros do exactly the same thing. It was my starter solenoid. No startie... no clickie. I changed the starter (which was only a little more expensive than the solenoid alone) and !voila!, click. start, varoom.

Gary

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James Bond 007
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Report this Post02-03-2004 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
Sounds like the battery to me,can you open and close the headlights with out any problems?The fuel pump isn't connected to the starter in any way.Have you tried charging the battery?
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WKDFIRO
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Report this Post02-03-2004 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WKDFIROClick Here to Email WKDFIROSend a Private Message to WKDFIRODirect Link to This Post
Tied to the oil pump?!

Don't seem to remember the oil pump being wired but keep hearing about a mystical circuit that keeps the engine from starting if there is no oil preasure. Haven't seen it in action yet (my wife would have saved me the fun of changing an engine if it did exist.)

Be that as it may, your fuel pump does tend to turn on when you try to start the motor. When you first turn the key, you should hear the pump cycle directly under your console.

But as everyone else is saying, if your battery isn't charged up to crank it over, it just won't happen....

Good luck!

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Jdlog
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Report this Post02-03-2004 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JdlogSend a Private Message to JdlogDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by WKDFIRO:

Tied to the oil pump?!

Don't seem to remember the oil pump being wired but keep hearing about a mystical circuit that keeps the engine from starting if there is no oil preasure. Haven't seen it in action yet (my wife would have saved me the fun of changing an engine if it did exist.)


Right, the oil pressure switch and the fuel pump relay are wired together. The best I can remember is that the ECM will activate the fuel pump relay for a couple of seconds to start the car. Then it shuts the relay off (opens internal switch). If further current will pass on to the fuel pump, it should only do so through the oil switch, which will close the same circuit when oil pressure rises within the first 2 or 3 seconds of cranking. This means that a major oil pressure loss would open the switch and cut power to the fuel pump...hopefully saving the engine after it has already been running well past the first few seconds.

Not mystical, it should work... but not wife-proof either...I am sorry to hear your wife out-smarted it...mine has a habit of doing that kind of thing too . Probably low on oil rather than totally empty.

In any event, this would not prevent the initial cranking in our friend's case. Let's see if the battery turns out to be the easy way out.

Beno

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Report this Post02-03-2004 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
This is how the fuel pump circuit works...if the fuel pump relay is defective or missing. No Fiero was ever designed with any kind of oil-pressure fuel pump cutoff, or impact cutoff, or any other kind of cutoff. The ECM controls the fuel pump via the relay and will only turn it on for the 2 second priming run when first starting, and then it will turn it on when it detects EST pulses from the distributor module. EST pulses are only generated when the engine is cranking or running, so if you wreck your car and rip a fuel line the loss of fuel pressure kills the motor, then the ECM kills the fuel pump.

Now, how does the oil pressure switch fit into all of this? It is an alternate means to activate the fuel pump directly should the relay or ECM fail to active the pump. As long as the engine is turning the oil pressure switch, which is wired parallel with the relay, will activate the pump. It is not meant to do this full time, so eventually the switch will fail. The classic symptom of a relay failure is extended cranking times and a lack of the priming run when the key is first turned to RUN. Everybody out there go get in your car in a quiet spot. Turn the key to RUN, but don't crank. If you don't hear your pump run for about 2 seconds, your fuel pump relay is bad and you're running off of the oil pressure switch.

JazzMan

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Jdlog
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Report this Post02-04-2004 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JdlogSend a Private Message to JdlogDirect Link to This Post
According to the book (I just got home and checked it) JazzMan is correct and...gulp... I am wrong about the fuel cut-off.

Now, my car's ECM is behaving as if doing the cut-off function thing. I started explaining but we are getting out of thread context already... A new mystery in my car!

Beno

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Ironfiero12
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Report this Post02-04-2004 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ironfiero12Send a Private Message to Ironfiero12Direct Link to This Post
Thanks guys, you all have been a big help! Just im remember im a 17 year old kid with a project, so gots take one thing at a time so ill start with the starter and post more about it when the next problem arises. becasue its a little wierd working on a car thats 2 years older than your are, but i love fieros and thier uniquness so im guna keep woking on the project car. I'll let you guys know what happens about the fuel pump, thanks again

-Carl

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Report this Post02-05-2004 03:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
This is too often said, but it needs to be. There's a few wires in the back that run down to your fuel pump. Check in your Haynes/Chilton's manual about dropping the tank. When you drop the tank you have to disconnect these two sets of wires that run to the fuel tank to the fuel pump. Check if they are damaged! The entire length! They need to be disconnected at about where all the wires go to the back of the ECM. And also while your at it, just for kicks, there's a singular wire that runs under the intake that gives power to the ECM. It starts from the right side, and comes out of the protecting hose stuff, goes to a black connector, and finished off to the left of the distributor (on top of it) and goes back into more protecting hose stuff. Check this just in case for precaution reasons. That wire is unique to the 84's and its always a good thing to check. Check your fusible links as said before. Those things rot like crazy around the top end of the starter and they go bad pretty quick. Check your positive battery cable too. There's a great number of things that I've found that are pretty simple to fry in the back of a Fiero. Good luck man. I know what its like to own a fiero (two actually) that are both not running and be a poor high school student. It seems so long ago.....wait, it was just yesterday I was working on it.......and I'm still a poor high school student

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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befarrer
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Report this Post02-05-2004 11:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for befarrerClick Here to Email befarrerSend a Private Message to befarrerDirect Link to This Post
If anybody needs any pictures to help you with your repairs, I have 1 very clean and 1 relatavely clean 84 Fiero (1 manual and 1 auto), that I can take pics of.

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Details on my Fiero here
Member of the Edmonto Fiero Club Please rate me if I helped you!

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