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I need help fixing my car.....again. Please help if you can by ImmortalFirefly
Started on: 01-20-2004 01:35 AM
Replies: 18
Last post by: James Bond 007 on 01-22-2004 11:29 AM
ImmortalFirefly
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Report this Post01-20-2004 01:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
The car below in my sig (86 SC 2.5L Manual), has done it again. Lemme go over the basics.

I was driving about 35 on a fairly cold engine. It was probably about halfway to normal operating temperature when it happened. "It" is when I was driving and all of a sudden, I'm not sure if it just suddenly cut out, but I couldn't accelerate anymore. And eventually I came to a stop. I pulled over and looked over my car in TEEN degree temperatures for two hours. This is what I did.

I would crank it up and it would just keep cranking....I thought maybe fuel wasn't getting there as I took off the fuel meter earlier today. So I reinstalled the fuel meter and wiped it clean, still no effect. But when I would turn over the car, gas is ejected out the injector (if that makes sense) so I know that getting gas there isn't the problem.

I checked each plug wire at the spark plug (forgot around the dist) and didn't see any apparent damage. I replaced these back in July along with the spark plugs. I checked the spark plugs and wiped them off and they didn't appear to have corrosion or wear on them. I also took off spark plug one, and put it back in the wire and put it to the rocker arm cover and the dogbone......no spark.

I pulled off the dist. cap and the rotor and gave them a lookover. I cleaned the metal tabs in the dist. cap with a screwdriver. Put everything back together, still no crank (I believe I did, but I can't remember putting the spark plug #1 back into its spot when I took it out, but anyways).

I also checked the wires to and from the ignition coil. All seem fine to me. If your wondering, yes I replaced the ignition module about a month ago or so.

I'm starting to think that there's something wrong with my ignition coil, but I can't imagine it would just cut out while I'm driving straight. Just as a review, I do get gas through the injector, throttle cable works, spark plugs and wires seem fine, dist. cap and rotor seem fine, I get no spark from spark plugs. Any suggestions guys? I tried to be as detailed as I could.

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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Electrathon
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Report this Post01-20-2004 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ElectrathonClick Here to visit Electrathon's HomePageClick Here to Email ElectrathonSend a Private Message to ElectrathonDirect Link to This Post
My first guess is going to be, no spark, you have a failed module. Did you put the dielectric grease under the module when you changed it? Was it a good quality one?
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ImmortalFirefly
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Report this Post01-20-2004 02:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
Umm, the module was a Niehoff, that I got at Checker Auto. (Kragen...) It was $37 and came with a 5 year warranty so I would think they tried to make it last long if they had a 5 year warranty on it. And yeah, I did put that white dieletyic blah blah grease on the metal side that touches the distributor. Thanks for the reply though. Any help is nice

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-20-2004 02:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Kind of a longshot, but it deserves mentioning... You didn't say when/if you replaced the rotor. If it's been in there forever, it might have arced through. I have seen a rotor with a carbon track burned through it. All you could see was a tiny dot, but it burned straight through the plastic to the distributor shaft. Shorted the spark completely.

Otherwise it sounds like a coil to me.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe.

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.

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ImmortalFirefly
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Report this Post01-20-2004 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
Sorry I failed to mention that. I replaced the rotor along with the ignition module about a month ago. I took a peek at it and wiped it off as well and the only apparent markings where a black dot area on the metal tab on the rotor. Also, I failed to mention this, I put in a new starter.....3 weeks ago so starting it really shouldn't be the problem. Thanks again for the reply

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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Report this Post01-20-2004 02:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JdlogSend a Private Message to JdlogDirect Link to This Post
Yup, if that ignition module didn't get its heatsink paste, you can get a failed unit pretty quickly...or perhaps you got a weak module to begin with.

The ignition coil doesn't usually go that way but it is still a possibility. The thing I can't remember is if a weak module can damage an i. coil (before you had that module replaced) or viceversa. I do remember that in one of my cars I replaced a bad i. coil and soon after had to do its module as well.

Good luck!

Beno

Edit: I was writing the above while you had already posted a couple more times. Well, if the coil is old, it won't hurt bad to buy a new one (or borrow one to test). If no joy...a new module still can fail...and then we'd have the pick-up coil to check.

[This message has been edited by Jdlog (edited 01-20-2004).]

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camon
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Report this Post01-20-2004 03:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for camonClick Here to Email camonSend a Private Message to camonDirect Link to This Post
Talking from experience here!

Just because the control module was replaced a month ago really doesn't mean much (I thought the same thing when my 2 day old Wells module died). 1st one died and left me sit.....bought a new one cured the problem for 2 days and then the car started shuting off at highway speed.....let it sit for 10minutes and it would run again for about 1 mile then shut off ect....ect (this is how I had to get it home). Pulled the module took it to autozone got it tested and it checked out O.K (well I told the guy it was an intermendiant (sp?) thing and it checks out O.K now because it had time to cool off) Long story short....They wouldn't honor the warranty because it tested fine. So I bought another one out of my pocket installed it and it has run fine ever since (I also have an AC-DELCO in my glove box for a spare)!

These things (especially the cheaper ones) will fail........sometimes (like in my case) in weird ways!

It will cost you nothing (except time) to remove it and take it to Autozone or AdvanceAuto and get it tested!
If it checks out bad return it to the place you got it and get them to honor the warranty. If your module is the culprit (unlike my experience metioned above) it will test bad because it completely died...so if it checks out O.K then I stand corrected and your problem lies elsewhere!

Good luck!

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Keith F.

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Report this Post01-20-2004 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AdriftClick Here to visit Adrift's HomePageSend a Private Message to AdriftDirect Link to This Post
you can get them to test it multiple times so it heats up. This will provide the results of how the ignition module would be working under operating conditions
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Report this Post01-20-2004 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
yeah, it does sound like the igntion module. But, other thing it could also be: pick-up coil, igntion coil, or wiring harness between coil & distributer. but, I will still say most likely the igntion module
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Report this Post01-20-2004 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for USFieroSend a Private Message to USFieroDirect Link to This Post
I'm gonna throw in with the other guys on the module. For whatever reason,anything but the dealer unit is too iffy. I had problems will Wells products, even replaced one only to have the second one fail in a few months. The dealer price was more than double the Wells brand, but after having the thing fail on me multiple times on the highway I broke down after the parts counter guy at pep boys told me that my experience was common.

------------------
John DuRette
Black 85 SE, undergoing work as we speak!
Battery re-located up front
Remote Start/Window Rollup/Lock/Trunk Release/Alarm
White Gauge Faces w/Speedometer Conversion
Urethane Suspension Bushings
Sequential Tallights
Custom Painted Dash Panels
Oreif's painted door tabs and horn button
Shortened Shifter
SpyHunter Scoop
H4 Headlight Conversion
LED Third Brake Light
Braided Steel Brake Hoses
Lowered an inch

Still not on the road!

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mvstar
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Report this Post01-20-2004 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mvstarClick Here to Email mvstarSend a Private Message to mvstarDirect Link to This Post
Take off the oil filler cap,look in there while someone turns the key to start for you sounds like the classic timing gear failure.Easy to check,not so easy to fix. MY $.02
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Report this Post01-20-2004 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
Ack...double post

[This message has been edited by ImmortalFirefly (edited 01-20-2004).]

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ImmortalFirefly
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Report this Post01-20-2004 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post

ImmortalFirefly

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Member since Apr 2003
Thanks for the replies you guys. I'll check out the ignition module and the coil. Just for my FYI, do I have to do anything special to take out the coil? I know its held in by a bracket and that's all....just wondering and tryin to be safe. BTW, what brand name module/coil should I get? I constantly hear good things about AC Delco. And also.....when I open up the filler cap and start the car...then what? You kinda left a blank space there.

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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Report this Post01-20-2004 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mvstarClick Here to Email mvstarSend a Private Message to mvstarDirect Link to This Post
Sorry i left out the important part.when the key is turned to start while you look in the oil filler opening you should see the rocker arms moving,if they are not moving that means the cam is not turning and of course the distributer is also not turning hence no spark. The cause will be a stripped camshaft timing gear.
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ImmortalFirefly
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Report this Post01-21-2004 01:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
Well.....I'll put it bluntly to you all. I've had the final straw with this car. Its broken down on me 4 times in the 6 months I've owned it. And these aren't little piddle fixer uppers, theres are some major thinking (mostly electrical) problems and there's so many conflicts in this car......I just can't take it anymore. The guys I got it from really ripped me off. I have so many electrical problems with this car......I just can't take it. I replaced the ignition module, and that did nothing. I managed to snap the head off of one of the screws too and also I lost a drillbit somehow by trying to get the bottom bolt tightened on the dist cap. I replaced the Ignition coil ($35 later) and that did nothing as well. I can't get the bracket off the ignition coil because its held in by some miracle studs that will never come off without a metal sharp diamond blade. I bent my good screwdriver trying to get it apart. I checked the timing check through looking through the oil filler cap, and yes my rocker arms are moving. I'm just so at a loss with this car. I believe when I tow it home, it WILL be my parts car. I have a 84 that I just got with a fuel problem....or something or another and I will fix that up and that WILL be my new car. The one I just got seems to be in my better shape overall, but it still needs a little more work. And it doesn't have thousands of electrical problems that my 86 does. The 86 is the one in my sig without silver trimming (trimming is photoshopped). Sorry guys.....I can't afford to keep this one running. I'm a poor high school student and I've spent probably about $400-500 on it so far, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. Just as I fix one problem, another one(s) happens and I'm getting tired of it. I know a Fiero is a forever project, and I love the car don't get my wrong......I just can't deal with the one with all the known problems. I don't know exactly what condition my 84 is in, but electrical all does work and that is a major plus with me. Sorry guys, I have had a VERY bad day. I'm extremely frustrated that I don't have the money, the time, or the knowledge to fix my car, and I feel guilty always coming back to the board for help. If you have any further comments, please post and let me know........I hope my 84 doesn't let me down.......

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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camon
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Report this Post01-21-2004 02:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for camonClick Here to Email camonSend a Private Message to camonDirect Link to This Post
Sorry to hear that .........and I feel guilty as well shooting off about the ignition module!

Their are only afew elements that tie into the car getting spark (that i'm aware of anyway). Pickup coil, cap/rotor, coil, ign. module ECM (I believe) and wiring.....I wish I was closer I would come over and help you trouble shoot it by pulling parts off my car and test my parts on your car.

As a free long shot you could look around the engine compartment and check for any wiring that has burned (maybe a wire laying against something hot)....also check the wiring that plugs into the coil and module as well as the wiring that plugs into the pickup coil short of that I don't know what else to tell you!

Good Luck....and i'm Sorry I steered you wrong!!!!!

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ImmortalFirefly
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Report this Post01-22-2004 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImmortalFireflyClick Here to visit ImmortalFirefly's HomePageClick Here to Email ImmortalFireflySend a Private Message to ImmortalFireflyDirect Link to This Post
Hey all. Camon, don't be feelin sorry about helping me. I got the ignition module for free so it wasn't a big deal. I'm a little calmer now and a little bit more relieved.......here's why I am so frustrated with that car. I have pictures, but they aren't high quality. But basically, in the long and the short of it, my exhaust manifold loves to get hot. And it did it to the previous owner. Before I was too stupid to know about it and now I'm suffering. My wires all along the firewall side of the engine...are absolutely toast. There is no help for them except getting a new wiring harness. It is all toast. Melted wires, charred, melted plugs....plus I believe when I bought my car, it was just a restored project car that was thrown together by unexperienced people and it made it crappy. Today I went to town on my now parts car. I'll be making a thread about that probably tonight. It just needs fuel delivery and it has a new injector and fuel pump, so I couldn't imagine that it could be that much more pricey. I just need a car that runs, then I'll take all the new and good parts I've put on my now parts car, and stick them in the 84. Again, thank you everybody for your help. Sorry I kinda exploded a little bit earlier, but I was extremely frustrated and at the end of my wires.

Austin

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Practice makes perfect, but since nobody's perfect, why practice?
If life gives you lemons, take them and throw them at people you hate.

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camon
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Report this Post01-22-2004 04:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for camonClick Here to Email camonSend a Private Message to camonDirect Link to This Post
No reason to appologize!!!!!!!!!!!

These cars can be frustrating (I have had my share of problems with my 87GT over the past 3-4 years).

I swore when my car left me sit about 17miles from home (no phone and when I finally walked to one everyone I called either was at work or simply not home) so I had 17miles worth of walking to brew over my revenge for my car letting me sit (everything from throwing a match to it, to fixing it and selling it ohh the thoughts that went through my head). Well I got home rested awhile and found myself on here about 1 hour later asking for assistance as to what went wrong with my baby and worring if it would get vandalized along the highway. The next morning (bright and early) I found myself in the engine compartment repairing a toasted control module! Amazing how alittle time changes your whole out look on things!

Well I hope everything goes well with the 84!

[This message has been edited by camon (edited 01-22-2004).]

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James Bond 007
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Report this Post01-22-2004 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
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