Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  HP/Torque Comparison of Northstar vs. 3800SC ? (Page 1)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
Previous Page | Next Page
HP/Torque Comparison of Northstar vs. 3800SC ? by fierobear
Started on: 01-09-2004 11:21 AM
Replies: 40
Last post by: LoW_KeY on 03-09-2004 12:22 PM
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
I want to build a nasty fast Fiero, and have been considering all the engine options. I had the 3800SC on top of my list, but now have the opportunity to buy a Northstar with special cams, getrag, quartermaster clutch, and computer (to make it work with stick) for a good price. Does anyone have horsepower and torque numbers on both for a comparison?

From a performance standpoint, I want Fiero that will do 0-60 in 4 seconds (or less), no NOS. I'm not concerned with top speed. The car must be streetable. The Northstar with getrag might not be the best combo for that goal, but I may still do the Northstar build just to do it. The Northstar might not be my ultimate Fiero, but I'm curious about the numbers.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
Stock northstar comes in two varieties 300hp with 275 ft.lbs torque and 275hp with 290 ftlbs torque.

I see your from California, did you buy the stuff from a guy named Arthead?

IP: Logged
Fieroswede
Member
Posts: 127
From: Sweden
Registered: May 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroswedeSend a Private Message to FieroswedeDirect Link to This Post
3800SC series II: 240 hp, ? torque.
Northstar: 305hp, 300 torque.

For a 0-60 time of 4 seconds I think youŽll need at least 400hp...

IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14216
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
300 RWHP should get you low 12's in the QM. As far as 0-60 goes, the Getrag's gearing works against you a bit there, but low 4's should also be easily attainable.

From whom are you buying this Northstar, and exactly what's been done to it? Which cams? Contrary to popular belief, at high HP levels the cost difference between 3800SC and Northstar is minimal.

IP: Logged
PURPLE REIGN
Member
Posts: 4080
From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold
Registered: Sep 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 303
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNDirect Link to This Post
Remember torque is the 0-60 factor. Just for a comparison, and not to bash the N* cause I like that motor. But if your looking for a light to light Fiero the 3800 S.C. is built for low end grunt. If you want to be able to break necks over the headrest, this is the motor to do it. While the N* is a powerful V-8, it is condidered to be a "wind-up" motor. Your horsepower isn't seen until it is higher in the RPM's. By then the 3800 S.C. is already at the next light

Plus a lot of future mods can be done to the 3800 S.C. to make it even more of a broadband motor.


P.S. They are a lot easier to install too

IP: Logged
mcaanda
Member
Posts: 3652
From: Grand Junction Colorado
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score:    (19)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 129
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post
Bear, it seems that w/ the fact that you have the "ability" to get a N* that already had the cam replaced and upgraded, I'd possibly go that route. It seems that with the N*, the major issues are the fact that there are only a handful of companies that are even making aftermarket parts for the motor. And, from what I have been reading, there is only one that does the PCM issues w/ manual transmission. If this has been completed already, and the pricing difference between the two of the setups are close, I'd go w/ the exotic, and less taken route.

Personally, I went w/ the 38oo S/C being that I'm a whiner, and I want my car to whine too!
Actually, I was looking long term goals, and cost effectiveness, and I didn’t find it in the N*. The ability to mod the car / motor are greater w/ the 38oo, and the support of the aftermarket community is just wonderful.

Here's a little to make the choice a little harder, as they are both really great looking motors, especially that N*….

It seems that you can get that 38oo S/C Series III cover for only 6o'ish from the dealer as well. Being that I'm going to use the "beauty cover" anyhow, that might actually be an option. W/ the Series III reduced to a II on there though!

Being that you are also in CA, well…I'm sure that there is no need for that there. AZ isn't that far away, and P.O. Boxes are cheap!

IP: Logged
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:

Remember torque is the 0-60 factor. Just for a comparison, and not to bash the N* cause I like that motor. But if your looking for a light to light Fiero the 3800 S.C. is built for low end grunt. If you want to be able to break necks over the headrest, this is the motor to do it. While the N* is a powerful V-8, it is condidered to be a "wind-up" motor. Your horsepower isn't seen until it is higher in the RPM's. By then the 3800 S.C. is already at the next light

That is if you can keep them running from light to light.

Like Will said the biggest problem with the N* is the trans gearing that is currently availible. given the proper gearing the 3800 sc doesn't stand a chance if both motors are stock.

IP: Logged
GSXRBOBBY
Member
Posts: 3122
From: Southern Indiana USA
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 105
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GSXRBOBBYClick Here to visit GSXRBOBBY's HomePageSend a Private Message to GSXRBOBBYDirect Link to This Post
4.6 L Northstar
Seville L37=300 h.p./295 ft.torq.
Deville LD8=275 h.p./300 ft. torq.

There are two easy ways to tell the hp, the 8th digit in the vin will be a Y or 9.
Y motors are 275 hp and 9 motors are 300 hp.

3.1 L V-6=175 h.p./195 ft. torq.
3.4 L V-6=175 h.p./205 ft. torq.
3.8 L V-6=205 h.p./230 ft. torq.
3.8 L V-6 supercharged=240 h.p./300 ft. torq.

------------------
Bobby from NW Indiana
86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon

IP: Logged
PURPLE REIGN
Member
Posts: 4080
From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold
Registered: Sep 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 303
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:

That is if you can keep them running from light to light.

Like Will said the biggest problem with the N* is the trans gearing that is currently availible. given the proper gearing the 3800 sc doesn't stand a chance if both motors are stock.

Smart alec


I'll take you on that light ot light bet with the same gearing. Like I said the N* is a wind-up motor.

IP: Logged
LoW_KeY
Member
Posts: 8081
From: Hastings, MI
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 150
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
3.8 - 240 HP/280 TQ Series II, switch a pulley and you'll be making 270+ HP with some more torque.


Series 3 is 260/280, uncharted right now because of the throttle differences..

Either way you go I'm sure you'll be happy, any swap that brings that much HP/TQ to the car makes it a whole different beast

------------------
88 5spd Modified 3800 Series II SC Formula
Modifications 2004 - Intercooler | 2.8 pulley | 1 inch drop | Interior | 17 inch wheels

IP: Logged
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
If I could get my final drive ratio down to 4.56 we would have some fun then, too bad 3.73 is the lowest I can go.
p.s. If I can pick which two light we go between.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 01-09-2004).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:

Stock northstar comes in two varieties 300hp with 275 ft.lbs torque and 275hp with 290 ftlbs torque.

I see your from California, did you buy the stuff from a guy named Arthead?

Yes, I got it from him. His nick is Artherd.

IP: Logged
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post

fierobear

27075 posts
Member since Aug 2000
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

300 RWHP should get you low 12's in the QM. As far as 0-60 goes, the Getrag's gearing works against you a bit there, but low 4's should also be easily attainable.

From whom are you buying this Northstar, and exactly what's been done to it? Which cams? Contrary to popular belief, at high HP levels the cost difference between 3800SC and Northstar is minimal.

Ultimately, I'm guessing a beefy automatic, perhaps with a shift kit or some kind of modifications, would be better for raw off-the-line performance. A stick shift is probably not the best for what amounts to a street dragster.

I'm not sure what to expect from this Northstar, but I'd like to try it.

IP: Logged
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5919
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 361
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
No offense to the N* people but I am having a hard time understanding where the costs of these two different powerplants are even remotely related. With that being said, bone stock vs bone stock it is pretty close but even the slightest mods done to the 3800II SC are giving it the edge. Just look at the 1/4 mile list. The hop-up mods that can be done to the 3800II SC are cheap and the only mods that I know of for the N* are head porting and cams, both of which add another $2000+ to the price tag, not to mention the custom chip costs. By the time you spend $2000 in mods on a 3800II SC, you should be running 11's.

Does the stock N* put out more power than the stock 3800II SC? Yes. But there seem to be issues as far as the PCM is concerned when using the N* outside of a caddy which appears to limit its power. Once these isses get worked out, I have no doubt that a lot of stock N* equipped Fieros will show up running low 13's or even faster. But until then, it is simply CHEAPER to go faster with a 3800II SC than a N*, and that is a proven FACT.

Aside from that, I still hold the opinion that the N* is quite possibly the best 60mph kick-down engine out there for the Fiero; again if we are talking stock vs. stock. But for dead stop, light-to-light contests, there are better engines...

------------------
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom GM Chip Burning | Fiero Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | dtcc.cz28.com

IP: Logged
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
From what I've seen, here ( Pennocks) and at the 20th, the times the N*'s are posting are already in the mid to low 13s. And all of these are still in stock trim. How expensive do you think the first gen 3800 were to mod. I see the N* is more limited by the chassis it was put in than actual potential. Now that it is being used in rear wheel drive cars the hp ratings are also starting to go up. And if it ever gets into high production performance cars. Then the aftermarket will fallow.

Did you get all the performance parts with it? I know he had a boatload of cool stuff.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 01-09-2004).]

IP: Logged
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:
Did you get all the performance parts with it? I know he had a boatload of cool stuff.

I got a special set of cams, and a computer that will make the getrag work with it. I have doubts that the getrag will hold up. I don't want to build something I have to baby around. I want to hammer it.

I don't know if a getrag is the best idea, but I may give it a try. This setup is somewhat experimental, to see how it perfoms. We're talking about doing a 3800SC, in addition, and comparing them (when I say we, I'm talking about me and pokeyfiero, whose shop we'll use for the work). I'll keep one, he'll keep one, or we will sell the one that isn't doing what we need.


IP: Logged
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
If you decide not to use the cams let me know I might be interested if the price is right.

Will is running a getrag behind his N* seems to be holding up ok, but the gearing is not optimal for the N*. He was looking at some other trans gear sets to see if he could come up with a better spread for the N*. He posted a pretty complete set of install pics and descriptions on here.

Using the Holley Commander and wiring harness from California Hotrod Fabricators will make the install alot easier.

IP: Logged
mshill
Member
Posts: 981
From: Rocklin, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mshillSend a Private Message to mshillDirect Link to This Post
fierobear, what are you going to do about CA emissions?
IP: Logged
FieroGTguy
Member
Posts: 3087
From: Indianapolis , IN
Registered: Mar 2001


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 101
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTguyClick Here to visit FieroGTguy's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieroGTguyDirect Link to This Post
What's the average cost to have someone else do a turnkey install? I'm having a modded L67 installed with less than 56k with power steering added for less than $6000. I'll let you know what it runs when IRP opens up. Hopefully I can get side by side in my friend's 88 GT that is N* powered, that has $20k install by Kevin Leslie.

Greg

------------------

"HAPPINESS IS BEING BLOWN"
L67, FieroX Valve Covers, 180 Degree Stat, 4T65E-HD, Intense LSD, Intense Shift Kit, Tranny Cooler, Stage 4 ZZP Intake + Blower, XP-Hot Cam, DUB 3.0-3.25", Gator Belts, Custom DHP, MSD DIS-4, CAI, TB Spacer, WCF Headers, EGR Delete, Borla Exhaust, Held Motorsports Front Slalom Racing Suspension, Coilovers, 12" Wilwood Brakes, 88 Rear Cradle (POR-15), and POWER STEERING!

IP: Logged
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 05:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
Here are some links to Wills install

My favorites, Will's 5spd conversion
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010418-2-005498.html
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-012465.html
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020825-2-017228.html
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020825-2-021440.html

Ben asking about the 5spd Northstar //www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010924-2-009429.html

Someone asking about a manual N* //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/027226.html

Someone asking about a low budguet N* //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/025969.html

Recent LS1 vs. N* debate //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/029199.html

Designone's fiero N* kit http://designonesystems.com/northstar/index.html

General N* info

One of few sites about the northstar mods http://caddyinfo.netgetgoing.com/

Northstar specifications http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/northstar/apps/nstar.htm
This site's info should be right, but it says that it has a 10.0/1 compression ratio and I've always heard 10.3/1. Other info I'm sure is right though

Another with a little misinformation, but still can be informative http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/enginescadillac.html

General Northstar info http://www.vipmedia.com/northstar/caddy.html

Another informative site http://media.gm.com/division/cadillac/about/cadillac_v8.html

N* aftermarket and performance mods http://www.chrfab.com/

IP: Logged
bushroot
Member
Posts: 496
From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Registered: Jan 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bushrootSend a Private Message to bushrootDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:

Will is running a getrag behind his N* seems to be holding up ok, but the gearing is not optimal for the N*.

I think a little boost will take care of the lack of optimal gears and the trans holding up...hehe

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
pokeyfiero
Member
Posts: 16189
From: Free America!
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mshill:

fierobear, what are you going to do about CA emissions?

not an issue

IP: Logged
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mshill:

fierobear, what are you going to do about CA emissions?

Pay someone, if you get my meaning.


IP: Logged
pokeyfiero
Member
Posts: 16189
From: Free America!
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:

Pay someone, if you get my meaning.

no what do you mean?

IP: Logged
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

no what do you mean?

You tell me.

IP: Logged
pokeyfiero
Member
Posts: 16189
From: Free America!
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 07:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:

You tell me.


I think we will do ok with charm and personality.
any ideas on doing the exaust?
IP: Logged
Tugboat
Member
Posts: 1669
From: Goodview, VA
Registered: Jan 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:

If I could get my final drive ratio down to 4.56 we would have some fun then, too bad 3.73 is the lowest I can go.
p.s. If I can pick which two light we go between.

Any reason not to use the '84 4.10 4 speed? They've got a really deep first gear and a wide ratio set. Not sure about the strength compared with a Getrag.

GL

[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 01-09-2004).]

IP: Logged
LoW_KeY
Member
Posts: 8081
From: Hastings, MI
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 150
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tugboat:

Any reason not to use the '84 4.10 4 speed? They've got a really deep first gear and a wide ratio set. Not sure about the strength compared with a Getrag.

GL

4.10's your going to spin like crazy! then your top end will be rather dead not to mention it was 4 cylinder tranny. I haven't had any probs with my trans (getrag) and I don't baby it, but I don't abuse it either

IP: Logged
pokeyfiero
Member
Posts: 16189
From: Free America!
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tugboat:

Any reason not to use the '84 4.10 4 speed? They've got a really deep first gear and a wide ratio set. Not sure about the strength compared with a Getrag.

GL


well i like the 4 spd idea cause i just like four spds.and isn't the problem with the northstar not having enough torqe?and it revs like a demon so i would still get a good top speed out of her? yes- no who has these answers?
IP: Logged
fierobear
Member
Posts: 27075
From: Safe in the Carolinas
Registered: Aug 2000


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 383
Rate this member

Report this Post01-09-2004 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
It looks like the subject of transmssions is being covered very nicely in this thread:

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/036306.html

IP: Logged
Mastermind
Member
Posts: 1396
From: Chicago, 4.9 IL
Registered: Apr 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 207
User Banned

Report this Post01-10-2004 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MastermindSend a Private Message to MastermindDirect Link to This Post

Some may feel different but, I think a automatic will give you more consistent and probably quicker 0-60 times than a manual.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5919
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 361
Rate this member

Report this Post01-10-2004 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:
How expensive do you think the first gen 3800 were to mod.

Pretty expensive IF you could find the parts to mod them. But then again, I was not referring to the Series I (gen 1) 3800 either.

Don't get me wrong tho, I think the N* is a great engine and one can only hope that the aftermarket really explodes for these engines just like it has for the L67.

IP: Logged
Fiero STS
Member
Posts: 2045
From: Wyoming, MN. usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post01-19-2004 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:

Remember torque is the 0-60 factor. Just for a comparison, and not to bash the N* cause I like that motor. But if your looking for a light to light Fiero the 3800 S.C. is built for low end grunt. If you want to be able to break necks over the headrest, this is the motor to do it. While the N* is a powerful V-8, it is condidered to be a "wind-up" motor. Your horsepower isn't seen until it is higher in the RPM's. By then the 3800 S.C. is already at the next light



At about 2k both engines make the same HP and have about the same torque, difference is the l67 runs out of both torque and hp before the N* At 4 grand the L67 has reached peak torque and is at 200 hp the N* is at about the same torque and 50 hp higher. The l67's torque drops off fast and peak hp at 250hp at 5500, N* Still making hp up to 6200. And making more torque than the l67. So the wind up motor is more of a torque monster than most people know or care to admit.

IP: Logged
rmphoto
Member
Posts: 865
From: vancouver
Registered: Sep 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-19-2004 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rmphotoSend a Private Message to rmphotoDirect Link to This Post
excellent reaply i think that ends arguments here. + for you sir
edit: thanks for making up my mind for me too, i couldnt decide between N* and 3800sc

[This message has been edited by rmphoto (edited 01-19-2004).]

IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14216
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2004 02:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
Does the stock N* put out more power than the stock 3800II SC? Yes. But there seem to be issues as far as the PCM is concerned when using the N* outside of a caddy which appears to limit its power. Once these isses get worked out, I have no doubt that a lot of stock N* equipped Fieros will show up running low 13's or even faster. But until then, it is simply CHEAPER to go faster with a 3800II SC than a N*, and that is a proven FACT.

Malarkey.
I got my stock Northstar car into the 12's last fall. I've added Koni struts since then and could probably knock another tenth off my 60'. Planning 11's this year. We'll see how much money I spend.
I haven't seen a stock L67 5 speed crack 12's. I don't think I will because it's at least 40 HP down from where it needs to be.
There are more L67's going fast than Northstars because there are just more L67's than Northstars

IP: Logged
TimGully
Member
Posts: 255
From: WI
Registered: Sep 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2004 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TimGullySend a Private Message to TimGullyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Malarkey.
I haven't seen a stock L67 5 speed crack 12's. I don't think I will because it's at least 40 HP down from where it needs to be. [/i]

I was THIS close to 12's on a stock l67. I could have made it but..... (fill in excuses here)

My last run (before the broken muncie) was 13.033 full street trim.

We'll never know now because I've been modding the engine this winter.

IP: Logged
banditbalz
Member
Posts: 2070
From: Barrie Ontario Canada
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 99
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2004 11:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for banditbalzClick Here to visit banditbalz's HomePageSend a Private Message to banditbalzDirect Link to This Post
Anyone know the redline of the L67 compared to the VIN9 Northstar?

Will a L67 ever see 6000rpm? I'm trying to decide if this engine is what I want and I sure as hell don't need another motor that is gonna run out of steam at 5200

------------------
I live my life a quarter-pounder at a time. And for those 500 calories or more, I am free. There she is, 2 pounds of pure beef. My dad ate it in 9.0 seconds flat.

IP: Logged
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5919
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 361
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2004 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
The stock L67 can turn 6000rpm (but the stock computer programming may not let it go that high). I have even heard some people taking it to 6400rpm but I won't. The Series III 3800 SC's have powdered metal connecting rods which should allow for more RPM. But then the question becomes: do you really need to spin it that high?
IP: Logged
LoW_KeY
Member
Posts: 8081
From: Hastings, MI
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 150
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2004 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
yeah I'm with Darth, seen it 6200 do you want to go that high though... Trust me it doesn't run out of steam at 5200 it rips all the way 6000 like no tomorrow.

When I go through the gears my eyes are focused on the RPM's like no tomorrow

------------------
88 5spd Modified 3800 Series II SC Formula
Modifications 2004 - Intercooler | 2.8 pulley | 1 inch drop | Interior | 17 inch wheels

IP: Logged
banditbalz
Member
Posts: 2070
From: Barrie Ontario Canada
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 99
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2004 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for banditbalzClick Here to visit banditbalz's HomePageSend a Private Message to banditbalzDirect Link to This Post
It seems like everybody is going L67... My dad has a 2000 Buick Regal GS and I have drove it many times. I couldn't image this engine in a car as light as a fiero. i just joined L67swap.com so i'll be asking you guys more questions over there.

------------------
I live my life a quarter-pounder at a time. And for those 500 calories or more, I am free. There she is, 2 pounds of pure beef. My dad ate it in 9.0 seconds flat.

IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 


All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock