Well legend goes that the 3.4 dohc will see 7000 rpm unmodded. So with mods and a good machinist i could see it hitting 8000. Then again my 3.4 PR will see 7000 no problem also but then there is that little thing called reliability.
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12:35 AM
bushroot Member
Posts: 496 From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
Any engine that is machined a built right means some dough spent can see +6,000 rpm. All it takes is money. My engine conversion, the head work will be warrantied to 7,000 rpm, but it costs me an arm and a leg. Not your standard head work. So the qusetion is why do you need such high rpms? Are you into drag racing? Oval track competetion? Remember it costs $$$
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01:19 PM
virii01 Member
Posts: 515 From: Lincoln, NE, USA Registered: Mar 2003
One of the other guys that is in the shop I'm in has a BBC that the previous owner shifted at 10800, on nitrous, so just about any engine can be built to rev.
------------------ The Raven :Under Construction "James" 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08
"Speed Costs, How fast do you want to go?"
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05:58 PM
iluvmacs Member
Posts: 324 From: Monroeville, PA Registered: Feb 2002
You can create a high rev power plant out of just about any really good engine, as long as it's not a long stroke power plant. What you will sacrifice is low end torque in the process, because you have to run the right cam, or custom grind to get the engine to perform up in the 5 digit range. You better confirm that the engine has a 'forged' crank, and hi-tech rods/pistons in order to survive!
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08:30 AM
PFF
System Bot
iluvmacs Member
Posts: 324 From: Monroeville, PA Registered: Feb 2002
hi revin' 327 i hear that that the peak hp in the pontiac vibes and toyota matrix's is somewhere around 8500...
The GT peaks at 7600, and all the others peak at 6000. Those cars get 25/30 (GT) or 29/36 miles per gallon. No V-8 could do that, unless it peaked around 9000 rpm and was never driven past 3000.
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02:23 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
After that comment, I had to look at your 'Profile', then it all made sense, you're still a Student!
All the more reason for someone to correct me. How can you get any kind of gas mileage out of a V-8 when the torque peak is so low? Gas mileage is proportional to horsepower, which means that at low HP, you get better mileage.
With the torque of a V-8 being so high, to get the same mileage as an engine with much less torque, the torque would have to be the same at the same RPM. This means that the 4cyl peak would be low, and the 8cyl would be very high.
Japanese cars get better mileage because their engines peak at much higher RPM than those of american cars. Of course, they don't have any torque at low RPM like the american engines, but that's the whole point of this argument/discussion.
Gas mileage is directionally proportionate to foot on peddle.
Higher tourque bands tend to get better gas mileage because you are not always winding the motor up to use it in traffic, therefore motor doesn't use all any of its gas mileage eatin power.
Am I somewhat right Cali?
Iluvmacs, have you ever driven an S2000? There is no power untill you get to 6-7K and above. It is not fun to drive if you can't wind it up to take off. Another problem is the first couple times you dump the clutch its burnt and needs replacing.
[This message has been edited by 86 FIERO GT (edited 12-27-2003).]
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11:18 AM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
All the more reason for someone to correct me. How can you get any kind of gas mileage out of a V-8 when the torque peak is so low? Gas mileage is proportional to horsepower, which means that at low HP, you get better mileage.
With the torque of a V-8 being so high, to get the same mileage as an engine with much less torque, the torque would have to be the same at the same RPM. This means that the 4cyl peak would be low, and the 8cyl would be very high.
Japanese cars get better mileage because their engines peak at much higher RPM than those of american cars. Of course, they don't have any torque at low RPM like the american engines, but that's the whole point of this argument/discussion.
This 'String' started by 'Beene' was focused on "Hi Rev Chevy with Best Engine Swap" stated, there is no mention of fuel economy in that statement. Just my opinion, but if we're talking all out performance that puts a smile on your face, fuel economy doesn't belong in the same room. I also made the assumption that he's talking of a SBC, which I could be wrong about, but there are plenty of modified SBC's out there that will turn 10,000 rpm without a problem. I've seen a few 'Fuel Injected' SBC's that run this high as well, and they are very 'fuel efficient' for what they put out in terms of Horsepower/Torque.
Personally I'm not set for fuel economy, or high rpm (6,200 max) in my setup, performance chip was burned on the slightly rich side on purpose, but it does get 21 mpg with your foot in it nearly all of the time.
Anyway, my post at you was relative to the SBC not being able to pull hi rpms. You'd be amazed of what the engine is capable of with the right treatments and parts. It wasn't meant as a 'Flame', just do some more research.
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12:44 PM
iluvmacs Member
Posts: 324 From: Monroeville, PA Registered: Feb 2002
That's exactly why I ask questions. I'll add this to my collection. Thanks for the input.
BTW, I have driven an S2000, but since it wasn't mine I didn't worry about the clutch. It was like riding a sport bike (which I used to own). Sure it was slow until 6k RPM, but that matches my driving style perfectly. I know I'm quite different from the majority of people when it comes to driving style, so I try not to argue too much.
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01:50 PM
ducattiman Member
Posts: 674 From: TheNetherlands Registered: Mar 2003
First off i really have no idea what this post is ending out to be,,it really is just confusing,,but to answer the first question...What do u want and how much money u have?
If u have a stricted fee i would say go for a 3.4DOHC v6,there is tons of info and people who have done this swap..if money is no object then hey the sky is the limit,u can have a 500hp+ 1300cc turbo to a 7250rpm 383..But before we go on we need to know WHAT U WANT AND HOW MUCH DO U HAVE TO PUT TOWARDS IT..
Last thing i dont understand..people swear up and down that they want the best gas-milage they can get then they turn around and drop in a v8..it makes no sense..u want a good mileage car buy a honda..u want a monster drop a v8 in a fiero,,remember to make hp u need more air and gas to pump in to it
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04:10 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
That's exactly why I ask questions. I'll add this to my collection. Thanks for the input.
BTW, I have driven an S2000, but since it wasn't mine I didn't worry about the clutch. It was like riding a sport bike (which I used to own). Sure it was slow until 6k RPM, but that matches my driving style perfectly. I know I'm quite different from the majority of people when it comes to driving style, so I try not to argue too much.
Know exactly what you're talking about, my Ninja doesn't even wake up till the tach reaches 6,500 then it's hold on time all the way to 14,000 rpm!!!
The major problem with any carburated engine 'high rpm' engine is that they just plain suck in city driving, that's why most hot rodders will be reving the engines at idle, to clear the plugs as they tend to load up. Also, people running these type of power plants run a high numberical axle ratio, so that the engine isn't in the low 'flat' zone for very long out of the hole. Fuel Injection does cure a lot of these issues, along with proper cam, and gear ratio selection. Anyone doing a hi rpm SBC swap in a Fiero would definately want the manual 4:10 transmission.
Well I was planning on doing a SBC swap and I do have 4.10's, the car is mainly used for city to-work-and-back driving but every so often I like to put my foot into it and I occasionally visit the strip. Money isn't much of a option but I would like to keep this under 10Grand Canadian. What can I get for that assuming I do the labor of assembly. What can you get for 5G's? It will be carburated as it isn't a winter car so I have no REAL need for Fuel injection and like to tinker. Oh and Finally, This is a sports car, WHO GIVES A SH$^ ABOUT FUEL ECONOMY? If I wanted 70miles per gallon I'd be driving a Volkswagen diesel.
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09:26 PM
PFF
System Bot
GTFiero1 Member
Posts: 6508 From: Camden County NJ Registered: Sep 2001
All the more reason for someone to correct me. How can you get any kind of gas mileage out of a V-8 when the torque peak is so low? Gas mileage is proportional to horsepower, which means that at low HP, you get better mileage.
With the torque of a V-8 being so high, to get the same mileage as an engine with much less torque, the torque would have to be the same at the same RPM. This means that the 4cyl peak would be low, and the 8cyl would be very high.
Japanese cars get better mileage because their engines peak at much higher RPM than those of american cars. Of course, they don't have any torque at low RPM like the american engines, but that's the whole point of this argument/discussion.
I have no idea where you got these ideas... best to lurk for a while longer.
"Japanese" and small engines in general get good gas mileage because they're small and the car's they're in are light, etc... They're working relatively hard to move the car, so they're operating at high manifold pressures, which improves thermodynamic efficiency.
V8's can get very good gas mileage if they're setup right. A C5 Corvette can approach 30 MPG on the highway, even modified, because it's geared to turn 1800 RPM at 80 MPH to take advantage of the V8's low RPM torque. At that low RPM, even though a lot of torque is on tap, the engine still has to work harder than it would if it were spinning faster. That means that it's operating at a high manifold pressure, which means greater thermodynamic efficiency.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc. '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow
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10:40 AM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
Beene, if you've got the money to spend, all you need to decide now is whether you want to build the engine yourself or have someone else build it. John Lingenfetler built a 1400hp small block. So either you can build it yourself with all the right stuff to make it capable of hitting 10k rpms without missing a beat, or you can have a professional company like Lingenfelter build it for you. Either way you can get you high revving small block if you're willing to put in the time and cash.
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03:44 PM
Dec 29th, 2003
Shadow_Wolf Member
Posts: 759 From: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada Registered: May 2003
Japanese cars get better mileage because their engines peak at much higher RPM than those of american cars. Of course, they don't have any torque at low RPM like the american engines, but that's the whole point of this argument/discussion.
I'll be honest, I don't find Japanese cars to be any better on fuel economy on a proportional scale. The small compacts are good on gas because they're completely gutless. Small car, really small engine. When you start getting into equal performance levels, there's very little difference in fuel economy between a Japanese and a North American engine.
Then look at Kia's, those pieces of junk aren't even good on gas! Their minivan rates at 24 miles per METRIC gallon. That's really crappy.
