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turbo duke by cold fiero
Started on: 12-20-2003 03:30 PM
Replies: 17
Last post by: fieroturbo on 01-01-2004 09:41 PM
cold fiero
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Report this Post12-20-2003 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cold fieroClick Here to Email cold fieroSend a Private Message to cold fieroDirect Link to This Post
Has anyone had or heard of anyone succesfully turbo charging a 2.5 and if so what kind of performance did you see? Has anyone made a kit yet? And the most important question how long did the turbo duke last? Most people say it is not worth it amd i should just replace the motor with somthing bigger, I have a soft spot for little four bangers that want to sprint. Ideas comments are apricated.
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yons
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Report this Post12-20-2003 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yonsClick Here to Email yonsSend a Private Message to yonsDirect Link to This Post
theres no kit for it yet, someone is working on one as speak.
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befarrer
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Report this Post12-20-2003 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for befarrerClick Here to Email befarrerSend a Private Message to befarrerDirect Link to This Post
Didnt Olso Fiero have one???

EDIT: I think a better question would be:

Has anybody turbocharged a Super Duty? From what I have heard, the stock bottom end on a duke, is not the strongest, and same for the block. Which I would think is not good for a turbo. a SD4 Turbo would be cool though :grin:

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Details on my 1984 Fiero 2M4 Sport Coupe #1192 Here
Long live the Duke!! 2.5L Upgrade coming soon I hope.
1986 Fiero 2M4 Coupe, 2.5L 5-Speed
Member of the Edmonto Fiero Club

Rate me if you want!

[This message has been edited by befarrer (edited 12-20-2003).]

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GTDude
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Report this Post12-20-2003 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTDudeClick Here to Email GTDudeDirect Link to This Post
AAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhh............DON'T DO IT!!!! If you do decide to do it haul a trailer behind you to throw the broken parts in as they fall off!

Seriously, this is a cute little engine that gets good gas mileage, but was never intended to be anything else. You will have to replace the crank, pistons, rods etc to make it even semi-reliable. Your money would be better spent doing an engine swap if you want more power. This is NOT the engine to make HP with. Good luck.

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd

If you found my advice helpful, please take the time to give me a positive rating. Thanks

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Whuffo
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Report this Post12-21-2003 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WhuffoClick Here to visit Whuffo's HomePageClick Here to Email WhuffoDirect Link to This Post
I'll second what GTDude said - the Iron Duke is a good reliable little engine in stock trim, but it's pretty much maxed out as it came from the factory. Trying to get more from it with a turbo or NOS or what have you will most likely lead to a badly broken engine; it can't handle it.

Cheapest route to more power: engine swap. Don't waste money trying to build up the Duke!

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fieroturbo
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Report this Post12-21-2003 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroturboClick Here to Email fieroturboDirect Link to This Post
I considered upping the ante on the duke, but it's just too costly. The stock 88's can handle some boost, but any higher than 180HP is really pushing it. In fact, I'd say no more than 150 on the street.

Now what I am doing as we speak (well, I'm gathering parts), is a Fiero Turbo Ecotec. It's that 140HP 2.2 that's in Cavaliers, and is in a 200HP 2.0L Supercharged form in the Saturn Ion Redline, and will be in a 170HP 2.4L Variable Valve Timing form in the new Chevy Cobalt (cavalier replacement), and is in a 1,200HP race version (that's right, 1,200HP) in the drag Cavalier's.

In fact, the drag Cavalier is offically the quickest 4 banger in the world, and is a mere 3/10th's of a second from beating the V8 Celica!!! (last I checked, it was that close to beating it on 1,050HP, I don't know the E/T on the 1,200HP version)

Anyway, on stock internals, the drag teams tested the motor on NOS all the way up to 400HP, before the rods shot out the side of the block. Streetwise, on turbo or supercharger, the stock internals can safely hold up to 300HP, an maybe go to 350 for some weekend drag racing.

I'm shooting for 200HP on the street, and will switch to 300HP, and will have alcohol injection, for drag racing on the weekends.

I currently have the motor (only 5,000 miles on it), the wiring harness, the ECM, the turbo exhaust manifold, and... the best part.... a T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo.

That's right, I have a Fiero, and a Turbo...Finally (after having this user name for over a year)

Bow to me, for I am the God of Fiero's (LOL, I wish).

I'm going to build it on a separate cradle so as to minimize downtime on the car. Plus, incase things go really wrong, I won't have completley messed up my car.

Someone already did an 84 SE with a superchaged Ecotec, so it can be done for sure.

I have a site, fieroturbo.com, and I will cover the whole project, with photo's, video's, sound clips, etc. all about the project.

As soon as I get the heck out of Iceland, and get back to the states, I'll start the project.

In fact, I'm considering the thought of turning this into a kit, so guys who don't want the BULKY V8's can go to something better.

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Nitrously yours,
Airman Michael C Casaceli
United States Navy

Will work for Race legal HKS boost controller and custom ECM.

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fieroturbo
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Report this Post12-21-2003 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroturboClick Here to Email fieroturboDirect Link to This Post

fieroturbo

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oops, FYI, the Ecotec is the 2.2 in 2002-up Cavaliers. It's not the 2200 2.2 that is OHV. This is the 2.2 that has DOHC, and is all aluminum, which will give the Fiero a perfect 50/50 weight balance. No, it's nothing like the 2.4 Twin Cam Quad 4. All new motor.
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Inferno
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Report this Post12-21-2003 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for InfernoClick Here to Email InfernoDirect Link to This Post
I currently own a 2003 ECO Cav/Z24. Very strong engine. The Saab 9/3 uses a destroked version of the ECO with thier turbo system to produce appx 220HP GM did tests on this engine with N20 and the stock mains held up to 125HP of N20. I have considerd a swap like this but currently the cost of an eco would be jsut too much for my blood. I will wait a few years for the costs to drop a a few J-Bodies to enter the salvage yards. You can also find this engine in the olds Olero, for those that will be looking.

2003 Z24 4Dr. /Stock Family Car
1988/94 Z24 /Completly Modified
1988 Z24 /Winter Beater
1986 Fiero 2M4 /New Toy

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Avery Montembeault
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Report this Post12-23-2003 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Avery MontembeaultClick Here to Email Avery MontembeaultDirect Link to This Post
FieroTurbo, do those engines mount to the stock trannys? what about the stock (assume 88 l4) engine mounts?

[This message has been edited by Avery Montembeault (edited 12-23-2003).]

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CaddyRob
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Report this Post12-24-2003 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CaddyRobClick Here to visit CaddyRob's HomePageClick Here to Email CaddyRobDirect Link to This Post
I can answer that, It would be No to both of the above questions.
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The_Stickman
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Report this Post12-31-2003 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_StickmanClick Here to visit The_Stickman's HomePageClick Here to Email The_StickmanDirect Link to This Post
Don't listen to the naysayers. This can be done if you are smart about it. First you should really build an engine for the turbo using better parts than stock. Adding better pistons and rods as well as a cam made for a turbo. Were not talking huge cash here either. Take for instance the crank I just bought off Ebay. It is done by Lunati. They balance and polish the entire crank. It is not as good as an SD-4 or marine crank but it is alot better than stock. I paid around $75 including shipping. You should also consider things like an all metal timing set and SD-4 head gasket. BTW there is a nice Turbo Duke kit in the mall section.

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The Stickman

http://members.tripod.com/~TheStickman/SnTsFieros.html

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achawkins
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Report this Post12-31-2003 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for achawkinsClick Here to visit achawkins's HomePageClick Here to Email achawkinsSend a Private Message to achawkinsDirect Link to This Post
OsloFiero has one for sale in the mall section right now.

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Marty,
'87 GT

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OH10fiero
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Report this Post12-31-2003 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OH10fieroClick Here to Email OH10fieroSend a Private Message to OH10fieroDirect Link to This Post
If you want a 2.5 turbo engine I would not use the stock block at all, anyone who has torn one apart can tell you they were not designed to handle much power.
A SD4 on the other hand is a compleatly different animal, can be made to be 2.5 liters, and will put out big HP numbers. Most of the SD4 I read about were N/A, and put out somewhere around 400 HP, if you use one of these blocks you can do just about any HP mod you want and it will survive for more. But be prepared to spend about $12.000.00 for one, you get what you pay for as they say, and the SD4 gives you a lot for a 4 banger.
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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post12-31-2003 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroDirect Link to This Post
The cost of the SD4 is overrated, as I'm finding out. I just bought a brand new bare aluminum head for $340. Granted, I'll have another 400 to 500 dollars into it by the time I'm done. But, there's also a SD block and crank on ebay, 1750 for the crank, 2250 for the block. It can be done cheaper than most people think.

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cold fiero
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Report this Post12-31-2003 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cold fieroClick Here to Email cold fieroSend a Private Message to cold fieroDirect Link to This Post
Thank you every one for the info. But who is building a kit and what kind of hosepower are we looking at? Thanks again
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Whuffo
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Report this Post12-31-2003 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WhuffoClick Here to visit Whuffo's HomePageClick Here to Email WhuffoSend a Private Message to WhuffoDirect Link to This Post
There was a turbo kit for the duke back in '84 - it was put out by Pfaff Turbo Systems of San Jose - but it had some reliability problems and was dropped. What they and others have found is that you can't build the stock Iron Duke / Tech 4 up very much due to a weak block.

The Super Duty 4 is much more capable - but parts are somewhat rare and carry a high price.

Seriously, there are much less expensive ways of gaining performance than trying to build up a high-power 4 cylinder engine for your Fiero. For about $1500 (parts) you can swap in a Cadillac 4.9, a little more can get you a supercharged 3.8, V8 Archie will fix you up with a small block Chevy for more - any of these will probably cost less than a 200 HP 4 cylinder and run much better (and be more reliable).

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webqaz
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Report this Post01-01-2004 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for webqazClick Here to visit webqaz's HomePageSend a Private Message to webqazDirect Link to This Post
I just saw this in the mall http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/017815.html

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'85 SE 4 Speed
----------------------
No Cat
Holley Scoup
Holley Throttle Body

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fieroturbo
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Report this Post01-01-2004 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroturboClick Here to Email fieroturboSend a Private Message to fieroturboDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, it's a nice kit, but notice the guy never officially said his internals would hold upto it.

He ran it on 6psi a couple of times, but he said on the street it was at 4. That isn't alot of boost.

Yeah, it's only $800. That's a little more than what a new T3/T4 turbo costs ($650), so at least the price for it is right.

And if you guys read the post I made on that link, you'll see I just ran into a legal issue, now that PA just announced a statewide emissions law. So if I switch motors, I will technically be modifying emissions equipment. GOD DAMN why did Tom Ridge have to leave?

Anyway, my reasons for going to the Ecotec are clear. More than 300HP on a bone stock motor...need I say more my friends? Plus it gives the Fiero a 50/50 weight balance, better gas mileage, better emissions, lighter weight (the block weighs 69lbs), and it's darn easy to get parts for. Easier than it is to get duke parts, and way cheaper too.

I bought my motor, ECM and wiring harness for $700 and the transmission for $300. I can't use the stock tranny, the bellhousing and starter motor position are both different. Plus the J-body tranny is a getrag, that is tough as nails!!!

Yes, I do need to make custom motor mounts, but as I'm not a very experienced welder, I can get help from several Navy Certified Welders from the base's repair shop to help/teach me.

I'm going to build it on a separate cradle, so as to minimize downtime on my car. Plus by doing so, I can sell the entire powerplant assembly off ebay, instead of having to sell the separate parts. Makes it alot simpler.

There is a J-body platform that can use the stock tranny, which is the 94-earlier Quad 4's, but they're heavier than the Ecotec, and have their downsides. The oiling system isn't as good at the Ecotec's, and pre-95 Quads are harder to get performance parts for. 95-later is darn easy, and can pump some nice power numbers.

Yeah, like they all say above about the duke not being that costly, sure, you'll come across a good deal here and there, but it's rare.

I found dozens of Ecotecs for sale at car-part.com for under $700. All of which can take more than 300HP.

Yeah, performance parts are cheap too. A crank that can take 700HP is $985. For the duke, $1750.

Need I mention that the race teams use the STOCK BLOCK for their 1200HP motors.

That IHI turbo kit...the ticking time bomb of 1984.

88's, like mine, maybe they can handle 150HP, 180HP at the most, for short bursts.

The Cavalier race teams went slightly over 400HP on Nos WITH THE STOCK BLOCK before the rods shot out the side of the block.

They sustained it at 350HP, with slight signs that the motor didn't like it.

Yeah, it's a little difficult given there's no kit for Fiero's, but I plan to change that. When the project is done, I hope to sell a conversion on my site. I'll make custom cradles. Screw used ones, I'll make tubular steel ones, like heldmotorsports.com (their cradles rock!).

I'll even try to carry a few motors and trannys on hand.

And although I'm going to have the ECM by the back of the engine, like J-bodies, I'll make custom harnesses to mount the new ECM where the stock one is on Fiero's.

I'll make shift links too.

With the axles, those need to be customized, but I know a place that can make any axle you need. I just tell them Fiero spindle to 2002-up Cavalier tranny, and they can make it, so I'll keep a few of them handy.

Those are the basic components for a conversion to this motor.

My hope is to do a partnership deal with the company I got the turbo and manifold from, so that will make it easier to turbo the car.

If I can't, I'll have people buy the turbo and manifold from the source company, and I'll make custom piping and extra components.

But I'll start small, just making cradles, exhaust components, stuff that needs welding, which people don't like doing.

Wish me luck fighting the laws!


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Nitrously yours,
Airman Michael C Casaceli
United States Navy

Will work for Race legal HKS boost controller and custom ECM.

[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 01-01-2004).]

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