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PBJ, Jazzman, CRUISE by DavidStremer
Started on: 12-10-2003 09:13 PM
Replies: 18
Last post by: JazzMan on 12-15-2003 11:31 PM
DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-10-2003 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
I checked five wires to servo and they test within specs.
I also found the white cruise switch under the dash. There is a three prong plug and a two prong plug that connect to the switch. The three prong wires are red white and blue.The middle wire (white) has power, the other two do not. The two-prong plug has a green wire and a yellow wire. There is no power to these wires.

I removed plastic carpet guard and found the cruise control module. I ran the tests shown on your diagram, Pete, and here are my readings:
1) cruise switch off: zero volts and zero ohms.
2) cruise switch on: A&J no voltage
G&J " "
K&J 55 ohlms
F&H 18 "
3) cruise switch on/ set switch pressed: L&J zero volts
K&J 36 ohlms w/ switch pressed
36 ohlms W/O switch pressed
4) cruise switch in RA: zero volts A&J
zero volts M&J
zero ohlms C&J
My readings seem to indicate that there is no voltage going to the cruise module.
HOW DO YOU TWO interpret this new information?
David Stremer
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Report this Post12-10-2003 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
Did you check the cruise stalk for proper switch functioning? The stalk switch is the power switch for the cruise module, so if you're not getting power at the module connector check the stalk directly at the connector under the dash. If you get power there, then the wiring from there to the module is bad. If no power there, then either the stalk is bad or the power going to the stalk is bad.

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Whuffo
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Report this Post12-11-2003 12:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WhuffoClick Here to visit Whuffo's HomePageClick Here to Email WhuffoSend a Private Message to WhuffoDirect Link to This Post
The switches (stalk, brake, clutch) are the most common source of problems. Check the fuse first, then check the pedal switches. If all good, then test that stalk switch...
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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-11-2003 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
Whuffo...the turn, hazard, and brake lights work. According to the wiring diagram they would not work if the fuse was blown. So, therefore, I conclude it is not a fuse.
JAZZMAN: I can't check the stalk because I do not have a spare connector. You told me that the stalk must be checked with the stalk wire disconnected from the connector. I also know that I can plug in a new stalk and see if that solves the problem. But, I don't want to buy another stalk.
The stalk I have is a GM part and was replaced four years ago.

My problems with the cruise started when I was trying to fix the delay on the wiper. I checked all connections and couldn't fix wipers. So I put the car back together. Cruise control worked fine during 90 mile trip. An hour later I started trip back home and cruise would not engage.
If you have a stalk wire connector I can use, and a stalk that you know works, would you consider sending them to me so I can check the stalk on my car? David Stremer
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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-11-2003 08:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
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JazzMan
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Report this Post12-11-2003 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
You don't need a connector to check the stalk, though having one off of a wrecking yard car does make the process easier. What you do is use one hand to hold the stalk wire connector, one to hold one meter lead, and another hand to hold the other meter lead. It means you'll have to grow a third arm, but that's not too hard.

Seriously, just look at the wire colors on the socket side to determine which terminals to use your meter leads against on the stalk-side of the connector. Check from YELLOW to GRAY (Cruise power), YELLOW to GRAY/BLACK (Resume Acceleration) and YELLOW to DARK BLUE with the slider switch set to ON(Cruise SET function). You can also check for continuity on the SET switch by measuring from GRAY to DARK BLUE.
Remember, use the colors as they are on the wiring harness side of the connector, not the wire colors as they are in the cruise stalk wire bundle itself.

I'm guessing that since you messed with the wiper switch in the column, you may have damaged the stalk wiring where it exits the stalk's steel shaft, or perhaps the connector under the dash has become dislodged.

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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-12-2003 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
Jazzman: I grew a third hand and it is between my legs as I type. May as well keep it there, I figure, because working on the Fiero gives me a lot of down time.
ANYWAY, My stalk wire end is the same as the end of the stalk in the wiring schematic you provided. The end of the stalk wire plugs into the connector. The only way to measure the resistance of the stalk wires, that I can see, is on the other side of the connector. The side toward the cruise module.
Please tell me how I measure the ohlms on the stalk side of the connector? Do I need to take the connector apart?
If you have a spare connector and good stalk wire, I would appreciate your sending them to me. I will pay ypu $10 and promise to have them back in your hands in seven days.
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Report this Post12-12-2003 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTDudeClick Here to Email GTDudeDirect Link to This Post
I'd definitely bet that you pinched or broke a wire while fooling with the wiper. The wires are VERY thin and even if you pull hard you can break one, especially if going around a sharp corner. Good luck.

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd

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Report this Post12-12-2003 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
I am betting that I unplugged something between the stalk wire and connector and the cruise module. MY PROBLEM id that I can't rule out the stalk until I can test it. I can not test the stalk with the connector, connected. If I do that. I am testing the resistance of the wires from the stalk to the cruise module.
It seems to me that the first thing I need to do is check the stalk. If the stalk is good, I can then test the resistance of the wires from the the connector to the cruise module.

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JazzMan
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Report this Post12-12-2003 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
Yes, unplug the connector. You will see that the stalk side of the connector is a flat epoxy board with two tinned contacts on each side. Look on the harness side of the connection to determine which of the tinned terminals you need to apply the meter leads to.

I'd be happy to send you my connector, but it'd be cheaper to buy one from a wrecking yard car. They're pretty generic, not specific to the Fiero at all. Just about any 80's GM will have the same connector.

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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-13-2003 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
Jazzman: thanks for reply. I am still confused. Am I to disconnect the stalk wire from the connector and then measure the ohlms on flat end of the stalk wire?
The flat end of the stalk wire (top right, top left, bottom right, bottom left) will need to correspond to color of wire on stalk side of connector. If the upper right, for example, is gray and the lower left is yellow, I need to measure the ohlms with the cruise switch on...and then once more with the cruise switch off? Is this correct? If the switch is working, I will see a different reading with the switch on and the switch off?
Now, what is confusing me is that with the ignition switch on "on", and the cruise switch on "on", I should have had batery voltage at the cruise module. According to the test sequence given me by PBJ. But I did not.
Should one of the wires at the stalk have battery voltage when the cruise switch is "on"? According to the diagram that PBJ sent, there should be power even though the car is not running or moving.
As I study the cruise stalk schematic, that you sent, Power (voltage) is supplied to the stalk from the yellow wire going to the connector (labeled C235) and connecting to the blue stalk wire.
What I don't understand is if the stalk sitch closes the connection between the blue switch wire and allows voltage to flow to the connector (wire B) SHOULD NOT Wire B (the two grey wires) be "hot" have voltage when the cruise switch is turned to "on"? Thanks, David Stremer
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Report this Post12-13-2003 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
What I posted is correct. If you examine the part of the schematic that shows the cruise stalk switches, you will see that pushing the SET button closes a switch between GRAY and BLUE. With the cruise slider set to ON a circuit is closed between YELLOW and GRAY, and if you push the SET button it will also close a circuit between YELLOW and BLUE.

When you did the test that PBJ showed you should have gotten power at the cruise module under the carpet. This leads me to think that either the stalk is bad or the connector under the dash is disconnected.

Have you actually looked at the connector yet? If not, then do the tests I outlined above and report back, then we can continue.

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Report this Post12-13-2003 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
Jazzman: are you talking about the connector into which the stalk wire plugs? If yes, according to the schematic the two grey wires (Connection "B") should have voltage (power) when the cruise switch is on, right?
If there is no power there, then it should mean that no power is coming from the stalk wire, right? If there is no power at "B" it should mean: 1)the stalk is bad, or 2) power is not reaching the stalk cruise switch.
If you look at the schematic (lower right corner) there is a yellow wire running to the radio fuse, and a yellow wire running to "A" of the connector. Should there be power at the "A" Yellow wire?
Also, the CRUISE/BRAKE SW (normally closed) should have power from the yellow wire coming from the radio fuse, right?
where, under the dash, is the CRUISE/BRAKE SW located? I want to make certain that I have power coming into the cruise system. David
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Report this Post12-13-2003 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
Ok, I presume that for some reason you don't want to check the stalk. Ok. Do this: Remove the lower cover under the column. Find the stalk connector, it looks like this:

Disconnect the stalk connector. Take your meter leads and stick one into the connector at the yellow terminal. Stick the other lead against ground somewhere. Set your meter on VOLTS. Turn the key to the ON position. You should have 12 volts. If you don't, then you need to find out why you don't. The radio fuse could be bad. Pull it out and check it with your meter set for OHMS. Don't assume that it's good, just check it. If it is good, then you need to find where the power is being interrupted.

Make that quick check for me now and report back. After getting the results of this check, then I will help you further.

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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-14-2003 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
Jazzman: thanks for info, Here is what I found:
There is battery voltage at the fuse. The fuse is good. Both ends of the fuse space have battery power with fuse in place. Ohlms read 30 on both sides of fuse space with fuse out.
The yellow wire on the connector is showing battery power on both the connector side and the stalk side of connector.

I also tested stalk per your instructions: yellow to grey, 0 volts, 1.0 ohlms. yellow to grey/black, 0 volts, 1.0 ohlms. yellow to dark blue, 0 volts, 1.0 ohlms. grey to dark blue, 0 volts, 1.0 ohlms. Ohlms were measured at 200. There was no change in ohlms with set button out or pressed in.

What do you think? David

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Report this Post12-14-2003 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
Ok, you seem to have power to the stalk connector, that rules out the wiring up to that point. With the stalk plugged in and the ignition switch in the RUN position, use your meter (set to VOLTS on the 20 VOLT scale) to measure the voltage from ground to the GRAY wire with the cruise switch turned on and off. You should see 12 volts with the switch turned on, and zero volts with it turned off. After doing that test, write down the result.

Next, with the stalk still plugged in and the ignition switch still in RUN, measure the voltage from ground to the GRAY/BLACK wire as you push the cruise switch from ON to R/A and back. You should see 12 volts for R/A position and zero volts for ON position. Write down the results.

Then, with the stalk still plugged in and the ignition switch still in RUN, measure the voltage from ground to the blue wire with the cruise switch ON and pressing the SET button. You should see 12 volts with the SET button pushed and zero volts with the SET button released, all while leaving the cruise switch in the ON position. Write down the results.

As an additional check, as you activate the various switches as outlined in the above tests, note if slight wiggling of the switches changes the voltages. Each transition from zero volts to 12 volts should be smooth and hard, no flickering or partial voltages.

Report back what the results are.

The OHMs info you posted was invalid because you can't check OHMs with voltage present, and it appears you did the tests with the power connected.

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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-14-2003 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
I will do the tests you asked for. Will let you know what I find.
I Don't understand what you mean by your last paragraph about Ohlms test on stalk wire. The wire was disconnected from the connector, so there was no power provided to the stalk wire. According to the schematic, there would be no connection unless the connector was connected to the stalk.
I do know that I was measuring ohlms at the 200 level, and all I was receiving was a reading of 1.00 with the switch turned to both on and off. I also tested set with button pushed for on and released for off.
I also moved ohlmeter through entire range and reading never went below 1.00
I don't know what you mean by can't do ohlm test with voltage on. The connector was disconnected, so there was no voltage to the stalk wire end. I do not know why I was getting readings of 1.00 ohlms. I checked ohlmmeter and it was functioning correctly. Any thoughts about this?
David
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DavidStremer
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Report this Post12-15-2003 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavidStremerClick Here to Email DavidStremerSend a Private Message to DavidStremerDirect Link to This Post
Jazzman: here are the figures. I am certain I had voltometer set to right range because I checked it on the yellow wire which gave me battery voltage. My ground was stable becuse I used a vice-grip to keep it in place
On the first test (on off) ground and gray 0 volts on, 0 volts off
For second test on and RA ground and gray/black 0 volts on, 0 volts RA
THIRD TEST, ground to BLue wire. 0 volts on, 0 volts with set button pressed

Hope this helps, David

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Report this Post12-15-2003 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
Your stalk's bad. Likely the wire got cut somehow back when you working on the wiper switch. I bet that if you pull the stalk out you will see that the wires are cut where they exit the metal shaft tube.

JazzMan

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