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Any old 3.1? by dclink
Started on: 10-24-2003 03:15 PM
Replies: 20
Last post by: FierOmar on 11-29-2003 11:28 AM
dclink
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Report this Post10-24-2003 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dclinkClick Here to visit dclink's HomePageClick Here to Email dclinkSend a Private Message to dclinkDirect Link to This Post
I've got a line on a recently GM rebuilt 3.1 from a '93 Chevy Cavalier for $450.

Will this motor work for my 86 GT automatic?

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Steve Normington
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Report this Post10-24-2003 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steve NormingtonClick Here to Email Steve NormingtonSend a Private Message to Steve NormingtonDirect Link to This Post
Not without changing the motor internals or rewiring with a new computer.

All FWD car 3.1's have different heads than the Fiero. You'd have to get new pistons and connecting rods to use the Fiero heads. If you used the Cavalier heads, then you'd need to use the Cavalier intake, DIS, and ECM.

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RockChip
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Report this Post10-24-2003 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RockChipSend a Private Message to RockChipDirect Link to This Post
You would have to switch computers and make some mounts. If you want to do a swap like this you will be happy with resualts but alot of people don't want to do the work. Not all front wheel drive cars had alluiminum heads, the old cavaliers and citations along with a few others had iron heads.

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'86 Fiero GT 4spd, aluminum head 3.1, vented rear brakes, K&N filter and custom intake piping, Cavalier seats, Celica GTS Rims-got a T3 turbo just need some time
'69 AMC Ambassador sst 2dr hardtop 390ci 3 spd B&m shift kit(315hp/427ftlbs)
'82 Yamaha Heritage Special 400cc 6 spd, hi-flo exhaust and air filters-For Sale to buy more Fiero stuff

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The_Raven
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Report this Post10-24-2003 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_RavenClick Here to visit The_Raven's HomePageClick Here to Email The_RavenSend a Private Message to The_RavenDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RockChip:

You would have to switch computers and make some mounts. If you want to do a swap like this you will be happy with resualts but alot of people don't want to do the work. Not all front wheel drive cars had alluiminum heads, the old cavaliers and citations along with a few others had iron heads.

But those were 2.8L.

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The Raven :Under Construction
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"Speed Costs, How fast do you want to go?"

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Inferno
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Report this Post11-10-2003 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for InfernoClick Here to Email InfernoSend a Private Message to InfernoDirect Link to This Post
So the mounts to the block are different on the V6 Fiero as aposed to the mounts on the block to a V6 Cavalier?

I know that the mounts will be differant but the mounting hols for the mounts are in diferent spots on the two blocks?

I am considering swapping my 3.1 from my Cavalier into my Fiero. I know that I will have to put the Fiero Mounts on the block to install it and swap over the Cavalier Harness and Computer etc etc. But the mounts thing has me a wee bit confused.

Reason why is I just read someplace else that someone installed another variant of a GM V6 into a Fiero with using stock holes and Fiero MOunts.

HELP. Confused here people.

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RockChip
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Report this Post11-10-2003 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RockChipSend a Private Message to RockChipDirect Link to This Post
The block is externaly the same as the fiero's 2.8, so all the mounting points are there. But the heads are different and the alternator is on top of the engine so you can't bolt the dog bone mount to the engine. you will need to make another mount to compensate for the dog bone or move the alternator and modify the 2.8 dog bone mount. I mounted my dog bone down beetween the engine block and the cradle, above the right axle, and it works well. If you leave the alternator on top of the engine, you need to cut out some of the right hood brace.
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Inferno
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Report this Post11-12-2003 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for InfernoClick Here to Email InfernoSend a Private Message to InfernoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RockChip:

The block is externaly the same as the fiero's 2.8, so all the mounting points are there. But the heads are different and the alternator is on top of the engine so you can't bolt the dog bone mount to the engine. you will need to make another mount to compensate for the dog bone or move the alternator and modify the 2.8 dog bone mount. I mounted my dog bone down beetween the engine block and the cradle, above the right axle, and it works well. If you leave the alternator on top of the engine, you need to cut out some of the right hood brace.

So you have done this kind of swap already Rockchip?

Is there anything that you feel that I should know before I start the swap this Spring?

I have done many engine swaps in Cavaliers over the last few years. Pretty Simple really. So I am hoping that this one will be easy as well.

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Songman
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Report this Post11-12-2003 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
Is the 93 model a 3.1 or a 3100? There is a big difference in the two designations. I'm not sure where they changed over.

I just posted this pic in the other thread as well... This is a 94 3100SFI from a Cutlass... The entire system was changed over to the Cutlass components.. ECM, wiring, 4T60E transmission... even the VATS coded ignition key...

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Fiero-Performance.com - New mods for your Fiero from Fiero Performance Bayern in Germany

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-12-2003).]

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Steve Normington
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Report this Post11-12-2003 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steve NormingtonClick Here to Email Steve NormingtonSend a Private Message to Steve NormingtonDirect Link to This Post
Songman, what did you do about the brackets for the dogbone, alternator, and AC compressor? The bolts in the sides of all Al heads that I've seen are not the same pattern as the iron heads.
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Songman
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Report this Post11-12-2003 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
The dogbone is a custom mount...

The alternator and a/c are stock Cutlass...

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The_Raven
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Report this Post11-12-2003 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_RavenClick Here to visit The_Raven's HomePageClick Here to Email The_RavenSend a Private Message to The_RavenDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Songman:

Is the 93 model a 3.1 or a 3100? There is a big difference in the two designations. I'm not sure where they changed over.

'93 was a 3.1, (genII), in '94 the genIII (3100) was introduced, in the W-body. L-body, and N-body (I think there might have been another one too), but in the J-body the 3.1 was retained, as the 3rd generation of teh Cavalier was to be introduced one year later in '95, I assume the reason for the carryover was due to not wanting to retool (or redesign) for one year.

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The Raven :Under Construction
"James" 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08

"Speed Costs, How fast do you want to go?"

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-12-2003 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
Steve Normington, You are right the bolt holes are different on the aluminum heads. The dog bone, AC and alt are all custom. With the stock Olds timing chane cover the engine is about two or three inches shorter than the stock Fiero V6. I also turned the fuel rail aruond 180deg so I could use the stock Fiero fuel lines.
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Fierokid87
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Report this Post11-12-2003 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Direct Link to This Post
not to intrude on this topic but how would a 3400 SFI like the 3100 perform?

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-12-2003 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
Not sure I read your question right but the 3100SFI is a big step up from the stock Fiero V6 with abut 30 more HP and even more torque. Now the 3400SFI is good for about 15 moreHP over the 3100SFI. I put a 5 Speed on the 3100SFI for a wile but shifting problems(tranny needs a rebuild) made me put the stock 4t60e back in.
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Songman
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Report this Post11-13-2003 01:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for clarifying, Rick.. I looked at the alt and a/c but they looked stock so you did a good job... And I'm glad you put the 4T60 back in.. I love it!
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-13-2003 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
It looks stock because I used some modified Corvette brakets. So they are kind of stock
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Mick
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Report this Post11-14-2003 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MickClick Here to visit Mick's HomePageSend a Private Message to MickDirect Link to This Post
Most attempting to swap an aluminum head 60V6 into a Fiero,
would probably not be interested in a set of these:

Just a set of adapter plates that also make
it possible to use the stock Fiero V6 front
cover, water pump, AC compressor, engine
front, dog bone, etc.
Some have even suggested that I sell these,
as there is some very critical technique
involved in their manufacture.
But, I think most would agree that it is
much better to do this the hard way, as you
tend to learn so much more from that experience.

I also developed a turbo charger mounting method that
cost's all of $50 for a GEN III V6 in a Fiero, with no welding required.
In the past I have even offered detailed descriptions of how to do this,
but have since discovered that many prefer spending $2K - $3K on a kit to
achieve the same result. I believe they have found that working two jobs to pay for an expensive turbocharger kit tends to build ones character, and thus this is preferably to any simple DIY fabrication.
It would be unlike me not to fully support this type of self improvement behaviour.

And of course everyone should try to use an OBD-II computer for their
GEN III V6 swap's whenever possible. There will then be absolutely NO potential
for performance tuning, so you will not need to concern yourself with such menial tasks.
This in itself could even free up more time to master the black art of "image resizing".


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88 Fiero Formula 5-spd
Turbocharged / Intercooled 99' 3100 VIN M


GMPCM Engine Management System Tuning Software

[This message has been edited by Mick (edited 11-14-2003).]

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Inferno
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Report this Post11-14-2003 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for InfernoClick Here to Email InfernoSend a Private Message to InfernoDirect Link to This Post
Mick! Now that is some darn good Sarcasim.

Nut I would love to get my hands on anything that you think that I may need for my 3.1L Cavalier install into my Fiero.

Contact me to tell me what you think I need that you maybe able to help me with.

Thanks in advance

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Songman
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Report this Post11-14-2003 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
Hmmmm.. Not sure if I could understand that message through all the sarcasm.. But I am interested in what you have to say if there was a real message there... If so, please let me know..

I keep hearing about not being able to use the 3100 front cover and stuff on a Fiero. What's this about? As far as I know, Rick used the complete 3100.

IF the comment about image resizing was towards me.. As a 20 year veteran graphic designer, I think I know how to resize. As a matter of fact, I did resize. But I left the images large on purpose for the people who wanted to see the detail.

Now... was there something in all that haze about a turbo?

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-14-2003).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-14-2003 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
I am not sure why some have changed the front timing chane cover, but you dont need to. I think the conversion fits very good and the water pump is easier to get to. The one serp belt is a plus too. And the Fiero timing cover is MUCH thicker than the 3100 cover. So the 3100 takes up less room on the battery side of the engine bay. Maybe people just want to make the coversion easier by useing as many Fiero accesories as posable.
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FierOmar
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Report this Post11-29-2003 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierOmarClick Here to Email FierOmarSend a Private Message to FierOmarDirect Link to This Post
I have a complete 3400 V6 out of a later Olds that I have decided I will not be using. Rick, Songman, or someone else from the SoCal area may be interested. ($350) I think these engines were used in the '99 & up Olds Alero (if you want to check the specs).

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FierOmar

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