I have a chassis that I would like to clean and protect. It is mainly rust free, except that annoying battery tray. The rails are clean, the cradle is immaculate, the trunk area is spotless. As it sits now, I have the car entirely disassembled, and the chassis is ready for my attention. How should I go about preping it? What should I use? A friend of mine painted his cradle with POR15, which I am not really familiar with. I priced it, and it isn't expensive. What do you think? What paint have you used in the past?
-Matt

I am in the process of painting my space frame and engine compartment, while removing some rust holes and replacing the upper frame rails. I have completed my cradle using POR-15 and then top-coating it with gloss black Dupli-color paint. I would definately reccomend using the POR-15, it dries hard as nails, is sandable before top-coating and is really easy to apply. I also have used it with fiberglass mat to repair some rust holes in my trunk and wheel house areas. In this application it worked very well and again dried hard as a rock. I am documenting my rust removal with photos and will post them here when I am finished. It sounds like you will have less work to do than I did. If you have not been to their web site, you should check it out. I believe it is porstore.com all of thier products are availabe there. I used the Metal-Ready prep solution and POR-15 in black and followed their instructions to apply. Now some words of caution, Do not get this stuff on your skin it will not come off, I have several very small dots of black on my arms etc. that I am going to have for a while, secondly POR-15 takes about 4-5 hours to dry, then they reccomend a second coat so you will need to do it when you have time, I found that the cheapest, plastic bristle paint brushes work the best to apply, natural bristles seemed to "gum up" so do not waste your money on good brushes, there is no way to clean them and you will have to throw them away anyhow. I bought 1 quart and have done my cradle, most of my engine compartment, fiberglassed in the holes and also did my rear control arms and I still have maybe 1/4th of the quart left, Glassing in the holes used a lot of the product or I would still have 1/2 a quart. This stuff does go along way and you could probably do the whole car with 3 quarts.
Hope this helps,
Richey

[This message has been edited by STRATOHACKER (edited 10-11-2003).]

Matt:
Sending you an E-mail now....

Just my two cents.. POR-15 is a great product - and it should be for the cost. There is a comparable product on the market called Zero Rust (www.zerorust.com) at a much more affordable price. But price isn't everything - POR-15 contains Isocyanites (or is it Isocyanides?) that are very bad for you. Bhopal, India bad for you.

I have not used POR-15, but have used ZR after doing my homework on the two. From what I've read, ZR has a couple of other things going for it - easer prep work and it's sprayable.. Downsides are ZR fades in UV(maybe POR too, I'm not sure) and may not be quite as tough as POR, depending on who's report your read. ZR can be topcoated to protect it, even with a clear but that adds a step if the part is going to be in direct sunlight. Some say POR is sprayable, but you might catch me dead spraying this stuff anywhere other than a downdraft paint booth with full body protection, if you know what I mean. Which one would you rather have on/in your skin/bloodstream?

At least check into both before you apply them. IMO, unless you're parking your vehicle in a salt water swamp, they're the same product. No, I don't work for ZR, and yes, I tend to go off the deep end about this topic. I risked my health too many times not knowing about the risks, so it's my turn to evangelate, I guess.

Por-15, like other rust converting chemical process, is to be applied on the rusty areas only. Note text from their web site...

"POR-15® is a high-tech, high performance rust-preventive coating designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to an incredible rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture.

Use it to coat rusty frames, floor pans, farm equipment, marine equipment, or even a heavily corroded battery tray."

If your frame is largely rust free, I would only "treat the bad spots" and then give the entire frame a cleaning and an additional coat of "regular" paint or a good quality rubberized undercoating product. This is a case where people think that if a little is good then a lot is a lot better. Use it on the rusted areas & don't waste your money if the area is clean & rust free. There are better coatings for that application. Most paints that come in rattle cans don't have a lot of solids. they look good for a year or so but don't offer much additional protection.

[This message has been edited by Gordo (edited 10-12-2003).]

I used POR 15 on the rust areas, then covered the unrusted area of the chassis with their Chassis coat. There's a few places in MI that sells the stuff, so it's pretty easy to get a hold of if you prefer to buy it as needed, versus waiting for shipping. I liked it, and would use it again (will this coming summer on another project).

From talking with you guys, and other people here at home, sounds like POR15 isnt the stuff to use. I don't have much rust to 'convert', I just would like to paint the frame and such while it's apart. If you look at the thread showing Archie's garage, he talks about painting his current project. I'd like to do something like that. What do I use?!? Rustoleum? Isn't there something a bit more... permanant?
-Matt

I sprayed POR 15 on my chasis. Power washed the entire chasis area with strong detergentand rinsed. Some places stuck great, others didn't. I did not use the proper respirator. I was half sick for 6 months? Really wished I would have used one. I bought one now. I would be interested in the other product. Where can I buy it? Do they have a website? Mark

IM SURE EVERONE HAS HEARD OF A COMPANY CALLED EASTWOOD. THEY HAVE LOTS OF MATERIALS FOR REPAIRING RUST
http://www.eastwoodcompany.com/

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[This message has been edited by ohio86se (edited 12-10-2003).]

I used POR-15 for my cradle and its the best. Id recommend it to anyone. My cradle had no rust, but i used it anyway and its like i sent it off to get powdercoated. its great. I then used the chassis paint on the engine bay and its great too. Shines and covered great. No prob breathing it in, but use rubber gloves and old cloths, cause if you get it on your skin it takes weeks to get off.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 12-10-2003).]

In Canada we have Tremclad paint.

The yellow stuff gets used on construction machinery and is a pretty good rust inhibitor.

I've used it on undercarriage because I find under the car it is hard to see detail. The yellow paint shows up every little flaw. You can then cover with whatever colour suits you. If there is heavier rust, I don't think Tremclad or Rustoleum are right, but for the light stuff they work pretty well.

I like to overcoat the whole thing with something that resists chips. I've used roofing tar, or the commercial undercoating, but this has been for vehicles that see salt every winter.

quote Originally posted by Gordo: Por-15, like other rust converting chemical process,

Wrong, POR-15 is not a "rust converting chemical". It is a coating that prevents air and moisture from getting to the metal. I know many who have used this on rusty and regular metal. I used it on my cradle, control arms, oil pan, brackets, etc. I also did my Dad's boat trailer with it.
I know someone who did the entire chassis on his 68 Cuda and it's held up perfectly for 2 years.
After seeing his car, I chose to use it on mine.

Re-read the quote from their website:
"POR-15® is a high-tech, high performance rust-preventive coating designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to an incredible rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture."

When using por-15 on treaded bolt holes what do you do to keep the treads clean?
since this stuff dries as hard as nails, i want to be able to put the bolts back in. so what do i use to keep por-15 out of the treads?

thanks,
toms...

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: When using por-15 on treaded bolt holes what do you do to keep the treads clean? since this stuff dries as hard as nails, i want to be able to put the bolts back in. so what do i use to keep por-15 out of the treads? thanks, toms...

When I did my cradle, I ran a tap thru the holes to clean them out then coated the threads with Vasaline using a Q-tip swab. Once the POR-15 is dry, clean out the holes and install the bolts.

Thanks for the tip (Q) right...LOL

you get an +

toms...

quote Originally posted by Oreif: When I did my cradle, I ran a tap thru the holes to clean them out then coated the threads with Vasaline using a Q-tip swab. Once the POR-15 is dry, clean out the holes and install the bolts.

Sherwin Williams Automotive Paints, ask for Chassis Black. Very cheap relatively, sprayable or brushable, glossy. Its an oil based enamel. If you spray it make sure you cover stuff, it will get on everything, but its ez cleanup with any reducer or thinner.

The POR15 paint or any other paint really covers rust but does not prevent moisture which can come thru from behind. It can also chip, no matter how good it is.

Point being that if you have a solid piece of metal maybe ok, but sheet metal would be suspect.

In the USA you can buy Rustoleum Rust Reformer which chemically changes rust and will penetrate down to the good metal. You then can finish over top of it.

In Canada you have Rust Check which does essentially the same thing.

Having worked on any number of rusty cars, I have successfully used Tremclad yellow, but for a better job, the rust converter products will do better.

This of course is short of sandblasting, but if you are able to get sandblasting done, or do it yourself, you probably don't need this thread.

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Arn Brown, 1985 Fiero GT, 15.474 ET stock
Mods underway.

I am also investigating what to use on my 86 GT frame. I have found an alternative to POR15 called "Rust Bullet". It does not appear to have the sensitivity to UV like POR15. Has anyone had any experience with this?

A big thumbs up for POR15!!!

I've been using it the past year, and I have to admit that it works wonders and is well worth the high cost ( compared to generic rust paint).

I did a little test over the summer, I took a rusty piece of old Fiero frame rail, gave it 2 coats of por-15, let it set up as per instructions in the can. I did not top coat it.

After it was dry properly, I walked out to the end of my wharf, tied the old frame rail to end of the wharf and tossed it in the salt water and walked away from it. This was back in July. in October when we pulled the floating dock part up for the winter, it was still coated with paint!, no signs of rust anywhere.

I threw it off to the side to let the air at it, and just the other week I happened to look at it, still looks rust free!

I had my doubts before I tried por-15, as I tried everything else I could find, only to have rust bleed through. Now I'm a believer!

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: This of course is short of sandblasting, but if you are able to get sandblasting done, or do it yourself, you probably don't need this thread.

I love to sandblast and always use it as my first line of defense. I have learned that if you coat a freshly sandblasted part with rust converter, the original rusty areas will still turn black. I have tried many products. My favorite treatment is to sandblast to bare metal and then paint with Krylon rust-fix primer (not rust-tough, but their rust-fix product) It is hard to find but converts the rust, dries hard with a thin coating and is an excelent prep for other paints. I have been in contact with Krylon and have asked them for the heat resistant properties. I am still waiting for a reply. (they said that their lab is working on it )

quote Originally posted by jelly2m8: A big thumbs up for POR15!!! I've been using it the past year, and I have to admit that it works wonders and is well worth the high cost ( compared to generic rust paint). I did a little test over the summer, I took a rusty piece of old Fiero frame rail, gave it 2 coats of por-15, let it set up as per instructions in the can. I did not top coat it. After it was dry properly, I walked out to the end of my wharf, tied the old frame rail to end of the wharf and tossed it in the salt water and walked away from it. This was back in July. in October when we pulled the floating dock part up for the winter, it was still coated with paint!, no signs of rust anywhere. I threw it off to the side to let the air at it, and just the other week I happened to look at it, still looks rust free! I had my doubts before I tried por-15, as I tried everything else I could find, only to have rust bleed through. Now I'm a believer!

Thanks Jel! You instill much hope in me. Means this quart I just bought isn't a waste. I plan on covering pretty much everything in my engine bay that could possibly rust with it. Although I didn't get the top coat. I'll probably just try putting another coat of gloss black in the areas that could possibly see alot of sun.

Matt

Something to think about---

POR-15 is great if you're doing suspension parts and you sandblast them first. In my experience though, it should not be put over painted surfaces-- unless you're willing to do a LOT of prep-work. Here's why:

I made a deal with a neighbor... she trains my horse, and I repair and repaint a crashed horse cart for her. It had a dull flat paint on it to start with, that was chipping off in places. I didnt take any special precautions when I brushed-on the POR-15 over the old paint since the cart had expanded steel and was too complicated in shape to really sand well. Looked great with a shiny black coat. Fast-forward 1 year. The cart had been left out in the weather. The POR-15 had turned flat-black, and was peeling like a sunburn. I could pull strips off all over on the upper surfaces which had seen the sun.

Moral of the story: Por15 needs to go on bare metal or rust. It doesnt like UV light, which will cause it to lift off of unprepped surfaces. If you get a lot of flaking or bubbling paint on a frame, I'm not so sure it wouldnt capture water and dirt and actually increase the chances for rust. Thats my 2 cents.

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87 Quad 4 HO convertible

POR-15 in the can reacts with moisture and cures quickly, so keep the can open only long enough to pour an amount to use into another container. Don't use the trick of punching holes in the edge of the lid ring for paint to drain back into the can, this will allow humidity into the can. When resealing the can, put a layer of thin plastic over the can opening, push some of the plastic into the can with the tip of your finger (this gives enough slack for the lid to close) and gently tap the lid on tightly.

JazzMan

you might also want to go to www.wagaero.com. in the aviation world we use float/batterybox sealer. Its a gloss black....and it even seals against battery acid.CAn be brushed or sprayed with a gun.Comes in quart cans. Misreds got it all the nasty places.
Bill