I have been searching the archives but can't find the exact answer-
What must be done to use the 3.1 minivan engine in my '86 automatic GT?

What exact year do I ask for at the wrecking yard?

You can use early 90s with cast heads, all you will need to do is drill starter holes on the opposite side of the block. You can also use your fiero intake, heads and all accessories.

Why not go with a Camaro 3.4 instead? Alittle more hp and torque.

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86SE 5 speed
85GT 4.9 isuzu 5 speed
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/027839.html
Will trade both for a fastback GT

ABSOLUTELY WHAT CRZYONE SAID

The 3.1 code D van engine only has 120 HP.

The 3.4 Firebird engine has 170.

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd
0-60 in 6.8 seconds!
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Now I am confused. Isn't the 3.1 a direct bolt in? Does the starter have to be drilled?

quote Originally posted by dclink: Now I am confused. Isn't the 3.1 a direct bolt in? Does the starter have to be drilled?

The 3.1L and the 3.4L pushrod engines need the starter hole drilled. The only ones that don't work are the 3.1L with cast heads in RWD vehicles can't be used because the flange that the starter needs to be moved to is shaved and won't hold the starter.

I was thinking that the 3.1 w/ iron heads from the minivan is a direct bolt-in, since GM puts the start on the same side of all of the 2.8-3.1 FWD blocks? The minivan is a transverse application, isn't it? The power is going to be pretty feeble unless you change out the heads to the large valve Fiero version and the cam/lifters to the Fiero or some other hipo grind.

JazzMan

Even though the FWD engines are transverse like the Fiero, the "pretty" side is facing the wrong direction. In other words they are en effect reversed how they sit in the engine compartment. More specificallly the 3.1 won't fit in the cradle unless you move the starter to the firewall side.

What makes the 3.4 DOHC such a difficult swap as I've heard?
Also, the 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 pushrod engines being essentially the same (?) would they be about the same difficulty putting in?

just put a 3.1 from a 91 transporter swaped intake and waterpump and away i went..direct bolt on.

They are a direct bolt in except for the starter. Your fiero computer will run it, and you can swap out the heads for the fiero "HO" heads, it will raise the hp of a stock 3.1

You are looking at getting maybe 10 more hp with a 3.1 over stock, but the 3.1 and 4 have a better oiling system, better oil pump than the 2.8 (tell me if I'm wrong)

A 3.4 with a carb can be tuned up to about 220hp, not to shabby. This will need porting and a decent cam. The fiero intake is restrictive, limiting the 3.4 to about 180hp with the same mods.

I researched this swap before ultimatly deciding to ditch the 60* V-6 and go with a caddy 4.9 Its not difficult to install a 4.9, moderatly costly and time consuming but not too bad.

Hope this helps

NOT SO!!on the transporter the starter is on the right side.just put one in last month.unawair of what american models work.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I was thinking that the 3.1 w/ iron heads from the minivan is a direct bolt-in, since GM puts the start on the same side of all of the 2.8-3.1 FWD blocks? The minivan is a transverse application, isn't it? The power is going to be pretty feeble unless you change out the heads to the large valve Fiero version and the cam/lifters to the Fiero or some other hipo grind. JazzMan

I happen to have a 93 Corsica with a 3.1 MFI (Vin code T)(aluminum head) engine mated to a TH125 trans. It puts out 155 horse @ 5200 rpm and 130 Ft lbs torque @ 4000 rpm. Not a bad starting point.

I can say without hesitation this engine and trans WILL BOLT right into a fiero. The trans (rear) mount is the same exact one used on the 88 2.5 auto trans. You will need to change the front mounts and fabricate a torque strut mount but it looks like the 2.8 items may work.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I happen to have a 93 Corsica with a 3.1 MFI (Vin code T)(aluminum head) engine mated to a TH125 trans. It puts out 155 horse @ 5200 rpm and 130 Ft lbs torque @ 4000 rpm. Not a bad starting point. I can say without hesitation this engine and trans WILL BOLT right into a fiero. The trans (rear) mount is the same exact one used on the 88 2.5 auto trans. You will need to change the front mounts and fabricate a torque strut mount but it looks like the 2.8 items may work.

The engine will bolt in, but the Fiero intake won't mate to the aluminum heads. And the Fiero distributor won't fit with the Corsica intake, so you'll have to use the DIS from the Corsica. AFAIK, the Fiero computer won't run a DIS system, so you'll need to wire in the Corsica computer. Maybe the Gen II heads are different, but the Gen III heads on my swap had a different bolt pattern, so you'll have to make custom mounts for the alternator, AC compressor, and dogbone.

Ahh who cares... Leave the intake on and just mod the decklid. Come on wheres your sense of adventure Steve?
Mod it man mod it.. Install the corsica ABS and ABS computer while you are at it.

Who said you need to do it quick? Just take your time, lay it out, one wire at a time.

When one is going to mod a car why be in a hurry to hack it? It's taken me a year to build my 84 and all I have done it the "stock" 2.5 ..... every nut..... every bolt... every connector and wire cleaned. Cant wait to start my next project...... in 2006 when the Indy is finally done.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-21-2003).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Ahh who cares... Leave the intake on and just mod the decklid. Come on wheres your sense of adventure Steve? Mod it man mod it.. Install the corsica ABS and ABS computer while you are at it. Who said you need to do it quick? Just take your time, lay it out, one wire at a time. When one is going to mod a car why be in a hurry to hack it? It's taken me a year to build my 84 and all I have done it the "stock" 2.5 ..... every nut..... every bolt... every connector and wire cleaned. Cant wait to start my next project...... in 2006 when the Indy is finally done.

If I didn't have a sense of adventure, would I be putting a 1997 3400 pushrod into my 85 SE?

I don't like chopping into the body parts so I just welded up brackets to use the Fiero accesories. I'm up to several years on this project (some gaps). Piker!

My point is that topics that include the phrase, "How easy is it??", should not contain swaps that involve rewiring or major modifications.

We put a 3.1 out of a transport van in a year or so ago. STRAIGHT bolt in. Nothing needs altered, no drilling of any holes neccessary. It is definatly an improvment over the 2.8. The reason we didn't use a 3.4 was there were none available to us at the time.

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: My point is that topics that include the phrase, "How easy is it??", should not contain swaps that involve rewiring or major modifications.

Hey cool Steve

I see. So the "apropriate" response would be something like "How skilled are you?" or "How much patience do you have?"

I know people that lack the skill and patience to change the channel on the TV when the remote gets lost.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Hey cool Steve I see. So the "apropriate" response would be something like "How skilled are you?" or "How much patience do you have?" I know people that lack the skill and patience to change the channel on the TV when the remote gets lost.

Or at least to preface your motor information with a disclaimer like, "This swap requires moderate skill and should not be attempted by an inexperienced mechanic or someone looking for an easy swap."

If God had wanted us to get up and change the channel, he wouldn't have invented the remote control.

BTW, the remote control is partially responsible for falling birth rates. People no longer need to have kids to change the channel.

Man, this is confusing. Corsica's, Trans Sport, Firebirds, Camaro's......etc. So WHAT is the easiest swap w/o having to mess with the wiring? A bolt-in, hook-up and drive alternative to the 2.8L. I am in the middle of a swap and I am lost.

why go through the trouble of switching an the 2.8 for a 3.1 when you can make your 2.8 into a 3.1 using the 3.1 crank and pistons from a 90-92 Firebird/Camaro.

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2.9L V-6: 2030 Compucam, Darrel Morse Fuel Pressure Regulator, 9.5:1 comp, zeroed out balanced crank, connecting rods matched, MSD 6A ignition box and Blaster GM style coil, Darrel Morse Bored out TB and intake, 19# Mustang Injectors, Removed TB coolant lines, Darrel Morse Dogbone strut, and more to come

The reason is because I am in the middle of rebuilding my 2.8 and would like to keep driving the fiero while I do this. It is going to be a lengthy process due to money and time. So in the meantime I need a temp and quick replacement.

ah. I see. Sorry

maybe someone should put a dodge viper motor in their fiero. then moving a starter and a few wires here and there wont seem like such a big deal

:O)

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quote Originally posted by FieroPilot: Man, this is confusing. Corsica's, Trans Sport, Firebirds, Camaro's......etc. So WHAT is the easiest swap w/o having to mess with the wiring? A bolt-in, hook-up and drive alternative to the 2.8L. I am in the middle of a swap and I am lost.

Get the 3.1 engine from a 90's GM minivan. Take the flexplate, block, pistons, crankshaft, and connecting rods from this engine. For the rest of the parts (heads, intake, exhaust, valve train, fuel injection, ignition, accessories, brackets, transmission, oil pan, timing cover, and waterpump) use your Fiero engine. I think the Fiero cam is different from the minivan cam, but I don't know for sure.

The easiest swap out there is to drop in another fiero V-6. I'm sure if you posted an ad in the mall section there are a few people that would sell you a running engine. Can't get any easier than that.

I don't know what some of these poeple are smoking, but hand it over here Any iron head front wheel drive gm 60 degree v6 will bolt into a fiero without redrilling the starter holes. Any of the above mentioned engines that came with fuel injection will have the "hi output" heads which have larger valves but they will have a mild cam compared to the fiero's. Most of the vehicles with these engines are throttle body injected instead of the fiero mpfi, so you will have to change the intake to use it in the fiero and that is all you should have to do. The vin T alluiminum head 3.1 (which I have in my car) makes 155hp and about 180ft. lbs. stock, not 130ft. lbs. The alluminum head 60 degree v6 is a fairly easy swap, but if you want to rebuild your engine it would be a better idea to stick with an iron head engine since you will have to swap computers to use the aluminum head 3.1.

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'86 Fiero GT 4spd, aluminum head 3.1, vented rear brakes, K&N filter and custom intake piping, Cavalier seats, Celica GTS Rims-got a T3 turbo just need some time
'69 AMC Ambassador sst 2dr hardtop 390ci 3 spd B&m shift kit(315hp/427ftlbs)
'82 Yamaha Heritage Special 400cc 6 spd, hi-flo exhaust and air filters-For Sale to buy more Fiero stuff

OK! So am I to understand that I can swap in my 1994 Z24 Cavalier 3.1L MPFI Engine and Harness into my 1986 Fiero 2M4 and all I am gonna have to do is install the stock Fiero V6 Mounts and somehow get the Starter to the other side of the block and away I go?

If you are near me I have a 2.9 V6 that will bolt right in. Has a mild cam and exhaust work. only 1200 Miles on it and we guess about 165 hp with the porting work on exhaust combined with the cam. Have $1100 worth of receipts I am asking only $900 for it. OH yeah, it comes with a full car around it too!!!!

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Just up the Coast from you by about 2 days. I am in Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada.

Damn I wish you were closer. It would be sold tonight.

quote Originally posted by Inferno: OK! So am I to understand that I can swap in my 1994 Z24 Cavalier 3.1L MPFI Engine and Harness into my 1986 Fiero 2M4 and all I am gonna have to do is install the stock Fiero V6 Mounts and somehow get the Starter to the other side of the block and away I go?

To reiterate what Rock Chip said......

No you DO NOT have to re-drill the starter holes whenyou start with a transverse mounted engine, only longitudily mounted engines have the starter on the opposite side, I am speaking of the 660 (60 degree V6) here.

Your 3.1 from your Cav will bolt to the tranny, without doing anything with the starter, you could probably if you wanted leave the starter attached to the engine. LOL

Then there is the ECM swap, which shouldn't be too difficult, I'm not entirely sure of what the Fiero uses for ECM to engine connections (number of wires and where they go etc.), but it should be equal to the wires needed to for the genII 660. Although the VSS will be a slight issue, from what I understand the Fiero has a magnetic (2 wire) VSS that runs to the speedo and from the speedo there is a single wire (pulsed) that runs to the ECM. Probably as simple as tapping into those same wires.

Simplest 3.1 swap would be the 3.1 from the early '90s Lumina APV minivan, as it uses iron heads with the same valves (size) as the Fiero, GM used the "H.O." heads from '86 on for the 660. Cams should all be the same as well, I have not seen any information that says there is any difference.

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The Raven :Under Construction
"James" 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08

"Speed Costs, How fast do you want to go?"

Thanks Raven. As always you are a help on any board I meet you on.

I will be starting this project this Spring. I have now contacted the person that will be doing my Turbo install and a GM Performance Tech that is in the area that will be assisitng with any Tech Knowledge.

This is my Dream to have a Fiero since I was 12 and saw my first one in 84.

Thanks

Bill, the 93 model is different from the one they are talking about... From what I know of the old Lumina van engines, you don't have to redrill the starter. They are direct bolt in... I was discussing this just a couple of days ago with my engine guy from Nashville.

As far as the newer 3100s. I have the 3100SFI in one of my cars... I say who cares if the Fiero intake bolts up? If I am going to do an engine swap, I want it to look like I did an engine swap... This swap was done using everything from the donor - ECM to the VATS key system.

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Fiero-Performance.com - New mods for your Fiero from Fiero Performance Bayern in Germany

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-12-2003).]

Songman. You did the 2.8L Stock Fiero front cover swap?

Nope.. This is all stock Cutlass... I didn't actually do it. Rickady is the one who did the swap.. This one is by far not a direct bolt-in, but it is a good swap if someone wants a good dependable late model engine. Maybe Rick will share some more details.

Someone was asking about the dogbone earlier...

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-12-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Songman: I say who cares if the Fiero intake bolts up? If I am going to do an engine swap, I want it to look like I did an engine swap...

I agree!

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The Raven :Under Construction
"James" 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08

"Speed Costs, How fast do you want to go?"

That was a fun swap. It was also my first. If I can do it anyone can It is also smog legal in CA and has the CARB sticker in the door jamb

This is another, I did not do this one, he spent much more time and money on his.

rickady. That intake looks sweet like that. Definatly original and a way to tie the Fiero back into the Fiero. Good job.

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The Raven :Under Construction
"James" 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08

"Speed Costs, How fast do you want to go?"