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How well do 88GT's perform in autocross?? by SkyMutt
Started on: 08-04-2003 05:31 PM
Replies: 36
Last post by: Nebiros88 on 08-08-2003 11:09 PM
SkyMutt
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Report this Post08-04-2003 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMuttClick Here to Email SkyMuttSend a Private Message to SkyMuttDirect Link to This Post
how much will $5,000 in suspension modifications get me in terms of autocross handling??? how high could i get my Slalom and skidpad with this amount of cash??
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Report this Post08-04-2003 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
$5grand should get you a LOT in suspension mods... you can get tubular arms and 4 corner coil overs for like $1grand... I dont know a whole lot about suspension mods, but if yer thrifty $5grand should get you a LOT in terms of suspension mods... prolly 4 corner konis with eibachs as well as some rims and a big brake upgrade

heh...

-Daniel

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Will
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Report this Post08-04-2003 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
How well do you drive?
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revin
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Report this Post08-04-2003 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
Yep all the supension mods aren't worth jack if you don't know how to drive.

I have done great so far with just goood shocks! no poly.

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SkyMutt
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Report this Post08-04-2003 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMuttClick Here to Email SkyMuttSend a Private Message to SkyMuttDirect Link to This Post
I'm decent, but i'll get better overtime. I just want to know if a 88GT is worth my time. I want a car that will be a autocross nighmare for cars that cost 4 times as much.
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Report this Post08-04-2003 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for virii01Click Here to Email virii01Send a Private Message to virii01Direct Link to This Post
While I'm not an experience autocrosser, I'd recommend many $1-1.5k in suspension and spend the rest on something else. Get a second set of small (well, light) rims and some track tires. Spend the rest on brakes, lightening the car, and horsepower.
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Report this Post08-04-2003 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobruiserClick Here to Email FierobruiserSend a Private Message to FierobruiserDirect Link to This Post
Given that I'm sort of biased towards notchies, but I would think you would be better off starting with a Formula. Same motor and trans, less weight to start. Whatever added aerodynamic stability (if any) the GT has should have no impact in a 'low speed' event like an autocross.

------------------
Notchbacks Rule
84 Coupe(parts car)
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Nashco
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Report this Post08-04-2003 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SkyMutt:

I'm decent, but i'll get better overtime. I just want to know if a 88GT is worth my time. I want a car that will be a autocross nighmare for cars that cost 4 times as much.

If you don't really care much about the car itself, but just want a cheap autocrosser...hands down, the Miata is the best car for that.

The Fiero is a great car, don't get me wrong, but not because of how it autocrosses in my opinion. I like that it's unique, there are tons of proven engine swaps you can do, tons of body kits and accessories, you can fit much bigger tires than most small cars, it looks cool, etc etc etc. The new Miatas look ok, but I don't think they've got anything on the Fiero. They're also not that great for engine swaps because basically any powerful engine is going to add weight to the front, not desirable for performance driving. Also, they're not NEARLY as safe as the Fiero is.

Do your own research and compare what the Fiero and the Miata have to offer for autocrossing. There's a TON of support for Miata racing, so chances are you'll find it a lot more inviting as a rookie.

Bryce
88 GT

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Report this Post08-04-2003 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:

Yep all the supension mods aren't worth jack if you don't know how to drive.

I have done great so far with just goood shocks! no poly.

Ok kevin... didnt think i would have to explain this... but in an autoX its usually NOT good to kill the cones... i know you're the master at it... but great means you avoid all of them

hehe...

-Daniel

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Will
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Report this Post08-04-2003 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Next to driving skill, tires should be your highest priority. If you really want to AutoX a Fiero, check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FieroRacingList/

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.

'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

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Report this Post08-05-2003 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
Sorry it is so far away...A good camera man is hard to find

------------------

98 3800SC GTP motor, 5sp.
custom hood,trunk,side scoops,IRM front spoiler

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Report this Post08-05-2003 08:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eunospeedClick Here to Email eunospeedSend a Private Message to eunospeedDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:

If you don't really care much about the car itself, but just want a cheap autocrosser...hands down, the Miata is the best car for that.

The Fiero is a great car, don't get me wrong, but not because of how it autocrosses in my opinion. I like that it's unique, there are tons of proven engine swaps you can do, tons of body kits and accessories, you can fit much bigger tires than most small cars, it looks cool, etc etc etc. The new Miatas look ok, but I don't think they've got anything on the Fiero. They're also not that great for engine swaps because basically any powerful engine is going to add weight to the front, not desirable for performance driving. Also, they're not NEARLY as safe as the Fiero is.

Do your own research and compare what the Fiero and the Miata have to offer for autocrossing. There's a TON of support for Miata racing, so chances are you'll find it a lot more inviting as a rookie.

Bryce
88 GT

Bryce is right, a Miata will dominate in an autoX situation. I have a supercharged 99 Miata with stock suspension and its pretty fast. I also road race it and it will hold its own against stock S2000's. I have friends with very high horse powered turbo Miata's and they can run down almost anything on a road course or autoX.

Personally I like both cars and hope to have my Formula on the track in a couple of years. I suspect with a good motor and suspension the Formula will be very fast.

Thanks,
John

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D-Ri2k4
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Report this Post08-05-2003 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:

Sorry it is so far away...A good camera man is hard to find

Kevin kevin kevin... its not so much finding a good camera man... its more-so finding a camera man with the cojones to be close to the track when YOURE driving

-Daniel

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Report this Post08-06-2003 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Howard_SacksClick Here to visit Howard_Sacks's HomePageClick Here to Email Howard_SacksSend a Private Message to Howard_SacksDirect Link to This Post
As always, both Nasco and Will make excellent points.

I didn't know just how hard a fiero is to drive until I co-drove my buddy's 2002 miata. I cannot express how much easier it is to drive that car up to the limit. i had no clue how those chumps were kicking my butt in sm2 till I drove one. I went from 5 sec back in the fiero to 1/10 of a sec back my first time driving the car.

An 88 is a good starting point and you will do OK locally with just some konis and no other upgrades if you're a good driver. An 86SE was actually winning c-stock locally until he switched to a z06.

No need to spend $5k in suspension upgrades. Just give shox.com a call and spend $500 on single adjustable konis.

I hear WCF has external double adjustable konis but no price on them yet. If you're a beginer just get the regulars though.

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Report this Post08-06-2003 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Howard_SacksClick Here to visit Howard_Sacks's HomePageClick Here to Email Howard_SacksSend a Private Message to Howard_SacksDirect Link to This Post

Howard_Sacks

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About beating cars 4X as much, my $300 (~$500 total basis) honda is probably quicker on the autoX then my $2k fiero.
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Report this Post08-06-2003 03:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroAudioClick Here to Email FieroAudioSend a Private Message to FieroAudioDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:

If you don't really care much about the car itself, but just want a cheap autocrosser...hands down, the Miata is the best car for that.

Even better than the Miata is the new mini

* just caught this thread **

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Report this Post08-06-2003 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for achawkinsClick Here to visit achawkins's HomePageClick Here to Email achawkinsSend a Private Message to achawkinsDirect Link to This Post
For those of you with miata's, my friend owns BR Performance ( http://www.brperformance.net ). If you are into fast miata's go check out their supercharger kits. It will most definately change your hair color!

------------------
Marty,
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Report this Post08-06-2003 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroAudio:

Even better than the Miata is the new mini

* just caught this thread **

Note that I said CHEAP! You can get Miatas for cheap all day long, about seven of them for the price of a mini.

Bryce
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Report this Post08-06-2003 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eunospeedClick Here to Email eunospeedSend a Private Message to eunospeedDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by achawkins:

For those of you with miata's, my friend owns BR Performance ( http://www.brperformance.net ). If you are into fast miata's go check out their supercharger kits. It will most definately change your hair color!

I've met Brant and he is the nicest guy you will ever meet. As a matter of fact I have his boost upgrade on my 99 Miata.

Bottom line, a Miata will beat a Fiero on an AutoX course every time. But, I think a good Fiero could hold its own on a road course.

John
White Formula

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Report this Post08-06-2003 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for achawkinsClick Here to visit achawkins's HomePageClick Here to Email achawkinsSend a Private Message to achawkinsDirect Link to This Post
You got that right.

------------------
Marty,
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Report this Post08-06-2003 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Howard_Sacks:
I didn't know just how hard a fiero is to drive until I co-drove my buddy's 2002 miata. I cannot express how much easier it is to drive that car up to the limit.

What year Fiero? The '88's are WORLDS easier to drive at the limit than the early cars.

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Report this Post08-06-2003 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoDirect Link to This Post
I've never drove an earlier Fiero (aggressively), but to add to Will's comment, my 88 does seem very predictable and assuring under pressure. When I got it, the 150k mile suspension was SCARY! Now I've got poly on everything, lowered it, Konis up front and KYB coilovers in the rear, and 215/45/17 245/40/17 Kumho MX tires. The swaybars are all stock with stock bushings.

At Waterford following a stock Fiero was basically effortless. Of course, their tires could have been a large portion of that. I've also got a few years of experience with the car, and I "practice" aggressive driving when I get the chance. The balance was about 95% neutral, just right!

Bryce
88 GT

[This message has been edited by Nashco (edited 08-06-2003).]

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Report this Post08-07-2003 06:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bHooperClick Here to Email bHooperSend a Private Message to bHooperDirect Link to This Post
I have an '86 Gt with eibachs, poly, and kyb's on a completely rebuilt suspension. Last year I started autocrossing... by the end of it, I wished I had bought a Miata.

1st off, they have a weight advantage. and 2ndly, they handle a lot better... and 3rd, the aftermarket and developement for a car that has been sold to the public for 14 years is tremendous!

In response, I went out bought a 3.4 TDC and have spent the entire autocross season finishing my GT. What do I get in return for this? I get to run against turbo charged Miata's now!

Go buy a miata... for $5000 you can get a car and rebuild it's suspension!

------------------
hoop
Red
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Report this Post08-07-2003 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doriftuClick Here to Email doriftuSend a Private Message to doriftuDirect Link to This Post
Or buy an n/a fc3s (2nd gen rx7) if you've got the cajones to tackle a rotary engine, these things will run circles around miatas.

You can find them <$1000 in nice condition...

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Report this Post08-07-2003 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hoola47Click Here to Email hoola47Send a Private Message to hoola47Direct Link to This Post
I don't know, I"m not into the whole autoX thing, it's almost as appealing as driving in circles such as NASCAR racing. I'm sure there is skill, much talent, and fun in these events but I would rather hit a road course where you can open the car up past 100 km/h. I wouldn't doubt a miata, or supercharged miata would do better than a fiero in autox, its a tight circuit, almost like a getaway race in a parking lot
But on the open road or track, I believe a modded fiero, such as say a 3800 would outperform a miata and many other cars, that outpaced the fiero a sub 100kmh speeds.

------------------
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, 0-60 low 8's. Best 1/4 = 16.1 at 85mph, mods, wires, CRX intake, and power pulley. Planning Turbo 3800 swap.

Bought for 2500$ Canadian.

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Report this Post08-07-2003 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GridlockClick Here to Email GridlockSend a Private Message to GridlockDirect Link to This Post
Go for a ride at an autocross event with a person that can drive. Believe me, I felt the same way you do, right up until I rode with a guy in what I thought was a lowly ford contour SVT. Its an absolute rush.

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Report this Post08-07-2003 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
the miata is a much better AutoX car than a fiero... IMHO the fiero is better at home on a road-type course... only problem is theres not any road courses anywhere near where i am that i know of...

-Daniel

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Report this Post08-07-2003 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for montesa311Send a Private Message to montesa311Direct Link to This Post
just woundering if any of you have ever gone agents any 3rd gen camaro irocs? hod did they match up angenst everyone else? there known for handleing, but there tons hever. Just woundering.
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Report this Post08-07-2003 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Howard_SacksClick Here to visit Howard_Sacks's HomePageClick Here to Email Howard_SacksSend a Private Message to Howard_SacksDirect Link to This Post
86 & 87 So basically the same year are the only fieros I've raced. No one races an 88 locally and I don't have one. and I don't want to beat on a car during a test drive so . . . long story short, haven't even tried to drive an 88 hard. I've gotten a ride in hugh's beast but that's far from stock 88 suspension.

I've been bugging Rockcrawl to bring one of his out to an autox for a while now and he keeps making excuses. Even offered to pay his entry fee and let him use my rubber before I mounted it on honda rims.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

What year Fiero? The '88's are WORLDS easier to drive at the limit than the early cars.

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Report this Post08-07-2003 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bHooperClick Here to Email bHooperSend a Private Message to bHooperDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hoola47:
But on the open road or track, I believe a modded fiero, such as say a 3800 would outperform a miata and many other cars, that outpaced the fiero a sub 100kmh speeds.

I'm all for this, but the problem here (and I'm no expert) is that running a modified fiero in an SCCA class would likely put you up against some real beast's... not o mention the cost of getting licensed.

 
quote
Originally posted by D-Ri2k4:
the miata is a much better AutoX car than a fiero... IMHO the fiero is better at home on a road-type course... only problem is theres not any road courses anywhere near where i am that i know of...
-Daniel

Check with your local SCCA region http://www.texasscca.org/ , and find out what they offer.

Autocrossing is fun, however the money I have put into it this year (and not having run) would have bought me a used IT racer.

------------------
hoop
Red
'86 Z34GT
5 speed
Borla Exhaust
Eibach's/Poly/Kyb's

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D-Ri2k4
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Report this Post08-08-2003 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
damn Hoop... i spent about two hours searchin around for a site that would have the racing stuff for my region... and i came up with the exact site you posted... lol.. shoulda just read the forum, eh?

I'm in the Lonestar region... hehe... now when they say you have to have a race-prepared car, what exactly does that mean? Could I use my fiero as long as i got some mickey thompson indy tires or pirelli p-zero racing tires? or is there more to race-preparing a car? i know at spokes (our local autoX club) it seems you just have to take anything out that'll slide around... would it be a bunch different for a road-course? seems theres 3 main road-course places in Texas... closest to me is college station which is about an hours drive... maybe 2... haven't been there since I went to the UT-ATM game a few years back... hehe

-Daniel

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Report this Post08-08-2003 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bHooperClick Here to Email bHooperSend a Private Message to bHooperDirect Link to This Post
Read the rules carefully. I can't tell you what you can and can't get away with as I don't even know yet. Also, it depends on what you are doing (touring laps, practice laps, all out racing ect.).

I will tell you that race prepared is a lot different that autox tech. don't go thinking that removal of the floor mats means you can go turn laps on the local track with competition.

Take your time. Join the club, meat people and learn. Then as time and $ allow, get licensed to club race. That's what I'm doing. I joined th SCCA in May, pit crewed in June and am corner working this weekend. If $ and the wife allow, I plan to work towards my competition license this winter.

Best of luck!

hoop

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fierogt88
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Report this Post08-08-2003 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt88Click Here to Email fierogt88Send a Private Message to fierogt88Direct Link to This Post
Well, as an interesting point to this conversation, the main instructor at the waterford track during the 20th was able to do a lap time within 7 seconds of the track record of any car and lapped the other race guy there who was a local who raced there all the time. And this was his first time on that track. Highly modded 88.

I know it doesn't really answer the question, but it does make a testament to the 88's ability to handle a road course.

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Report this Post08-08-2003 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
Hoop... what you're doin is about the exact same thing i wanna do... I was reading those sites over and over again today while i was at work... hehe... and it seems you need a fire extinguisher, roll cage and more stuff that i couldnt figure out... i know for the Pro Rally races you need skid pads to protect the bottom of your car...

Who was it that ran his mostly stock 88 formula at road-type courses? I can't remember now... but he posted pics... formula with t-tops... one of the picture had a guy waving out of the t-top... hehe...

-Daniel

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Report this Post08-08-2003 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88Fiero2M4Click Here to visit 88Fiero2M4's HomePageSend a Private Message to 88Fiero2M4Direct Link to This Post
I really think the Fiero can handle better then most think it can. In one instance and near accedent I was driving, I found the Fiero to be a very responcive car. I was going down a highway between Snider and Brush Colorado, and forgot about this 90 deg right hand turn that has an advisory of 15 mph. when I finaly relised the turn was there it was about to late and I was doing 65 MPH. I hit the brakes as hard as I could push them thinking god I am going to be out in that field for sure. when I hit the turn I was still over 50 MPH and I let off the brakes and at the same time turned the wheel. I went around the turn on the inside without leaving my lane at 55 MPH and nearly broke the rear free. I have never had the rear tires squiel on a Fiero, its always been the front untill that day.
It scared the hell out of me and my friend looked over at me and said now there is something to brag about.
That was in My 86 2M4 and it is bone stock. except I put 215 rubber on the rear and 195 on the front. After I took that turn like that on the inside lane all the way I never looked at the Fiero the same again.

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Don Pottorff
Red 88 Fiero 2M4
Silver 86 Fiero 2M4

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D-Ri2k4
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Report this Post08-08-2003 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D-Ri2k4Click Here to Email D-Ri2k4Send a Private Message to D-Ri2k4Direct Link to This Post
fieros are BEASTS on road courses... the only reason they're not as great on an AutoX and get beaten by miatas is 'cuz you dont get up to real high speeds to use the high speed cornering ability of the car... fiero wasn't built for AutoX, but its fun no less... I want to run at an SCCA road course, which is where the fiero can really be opened up

-Daniel

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Nebiros88
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Report this Post08-08-2003 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nebiros88Click Here to visit Nebiros88's HomePageSend a Private Message to Nebiros88Direct Link to This Post
A while back I went AutoX'ing for my first time in my formula..... Now on the road... I feel very well experienced and can handle my car quite well in different situations... but autoX was a whole new world to me... one thing that Iím sure is a lot different in bigger cities, is the size of the course... the course I ran lasted about 40 sec... a very quick run trough cones around 90* corners all sorts of stuff I had never experienced....I'll just say right now that after that night I felt I was more pathetic of a driver then even back before I got my drivers license... the track was based completely around the capabilities of power steering...my fiero was the only car out there with rack/pinion steering...needless to say I got my ass owned by most of the cars out there...although I did beat a few of their times...

anyways to my point... you could have $20k in suspension... it wont matter to much without TONS and TONS of seat time for the driver... in autox I found you must be 1 with your car, know its size, feel, speeds , cornering, every feature and option of your car...

My feeling is no matter what itís in... autox, racing, drag racing, everything... 40% car...60% driver... you could have a $200k car... but get beat out by a $5k car... its all a matter of your skills with the hp/torque you have... good luck and remember... no matter what happens.. Have fun with it =)

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[edit] spelling
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[This message has been edited by Nebiros88 (edited 08-08-2003).]

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