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How do I sand/primer my car? by KRMFiero
Started on: 07-01-2003 01:15 AM
Replies: 42
Last post by: rogergarrison on 07-06-2003 09:08 PM
KRMFiero
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Report this Post07-01-2003 01:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KRMFieroClick Here to Email KRMFieroSend a Private Message to KRMFieroDirect Link to This Post

Okay I am removing all the trim, I have got some new fenders (without cracks on them) and it is time to start sanding. My current paint is faded very bad. Can someone discribe to me exactly how to sand this car, Block sand/wet sand/orbit sand.... What grits to use?

Also When I am done sanding do I need to use a putty? how does the putty work and how do I know if I need it?

When it is time to prime the parts I just sand it then prime it then sandd then prime and keep repeating for a few coats or?

I can not seem to find a good post about this, im sure there are if someone could help me find some more info that would work to. I will give everyone + that helps me.

Kyle

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-01-2003 07:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

All of the body needs sanded. Good panels can be just dulled with red scotchbrite. Rest sanded with at least #400 grit. Orbital sander and hand sanding are both ok. Make sure you hold sander and hand flat to keep from making waves. If you have any clearcoat problems, all the clear in that area has to be sanded off till the break is smooth and clean. Some people prefer wet sanding. I dont, prefer to dry sand so you can see your progress. It does save on sandpaper though if your really cheap. Dry paper is less than $10 for 100 sheets and Ive never used a box on a car j/k. Use primer in a spray gun, NOT a can. Prime any area you sand thru the top coat or any bare plastic spots. Sand and reprime till the place is smooth as the surrounding area.

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Report this Post07-01-2003 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

Two things I'd like to add.....

When you are sanding with sandpaper or scuffing with the red Scotchbrite, be careful on the edges. You'll sand through them very fast.
Unless you need to remove old paint, just scuff it good. Your goal is to get rid of the gloss on the old paint....not get to the old primer. New primer will stick to old paint better than old primer...as long as it's scuffed properly. As Roger said, use at least #400 grit sandpaper dry. I use #320 grit before priming, but the #400 will work just fine. Just make sure you do a good job on the old paint. No shiny spots.

Remember, prep work is 90% of any paint job. You can have a beautiful $3000 paint job done on a car, but if the primer won't stick to the old paint, the new paint flies off with the new primer.

Good luck.

Mark the 'other' paint guy

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Report this Post07-01-2003 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEDirect Link to This Post

I will be doing some body work soon and had the same questions. Thanks to all. +

I will post before and after photos probably within 4 weeks.

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Kento
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Report this Post07-01-2003 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KentoClick Here to Email KentoSend a Private Message to KentoDirect Link to This Post

Question about the sanding, Since our beloved cars are not metal, we can sand and drive correct My baby is my daily driver and can not take it off the road for more than 1 day or so.

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-01-2003 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post

I've got a question along the same lines.
My clearcoat is cracking and peeling in areas. If I'm going to sand down and repaint the damaged areas, do I have to spray primer if I don't sand through the color coat, or is that only if I go all the way to the plastic?

The entire car needs repainting, but since that's not in the budget for a while, I thought I'd try to do some spot repairs to make it look a bit better until I can get the entire car re-sprayed.

Oh, and where can you get a "red" Scotchbrite? Home Depot, etc.? Or do I have to find them at paint supply stores?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-01-2003).]

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JacobHaley
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Report this Post07-01-2003 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JacobHaleyClick Here to Email JacobHaleySend a Private Message to JacobHaleyDirect Link to This Post

I got my red scotchbright pads at NAPA. I asked for "a couple red scotchbright pads" and they knew just what I was talking about.

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Firefox
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Report this Post07-01-2003 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Kento:

Question about the sanding, Since our beloved cars are not metal, we can sand and drive correct My baby is my daily driver and can not take it off the road for more than 1 day or so.



You can prime the vehicle and then drive, but the big fear comes from oil and grease and other contaminants. That stuff can get into the primer and mess up a paint job. I have done so in the past.....sand, prime, drive to work....sand, prime, drive to work....etc. You need to make sure that the car is CLEAN after you are finished with the sanding and priming. It's best if you don't drive it, but if you clean up the car before painting, you should be ok. Use a good wax and grease remover and wipe down the whole car with that following instructions. when you are done doing that, you can wash the car with a good grease cutting dishwashing soap like Dawn. Yes, it helps! Then, when you are getting ready to paint, wipe it down again with wax and grease remover before scuffing/sanding the primer for paint.

As for cracking clear, you can just sand down to a good color coat. You don't need primer until you hit fiberglass, but you might want to use it anyway or even with spot painting, you'll create a low spot in the paint.....the primer will replace the missing layers of paint so you won't see the 'low spot' after the car is painted.

Mark

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84Bill
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Report this Post07-01-2003 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post

High quality shops will even 400 wet sand the primer, blow it dry then wheel it into the spray booth to dry fully.

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-01-2003 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post

Also, I'm having a hard time finding 88 GM Bright Red (Code 81?) paint in anything other than touch up tubes. I was hoping to find some spray bombs. Failing that, I guess I can get a pint or quart (whatever size they have) from a dealership. Has anyone ever used those refillable aerosol sprayers with any success? Eastwood Co. sells some. It's got a cup for the paint, and an aerosol propellant can attaches to it, the you use it like a spray can. That's about my only option since I don't have any other equipment.

I guess I can just use spray can clear coat on top of this? Yeah, it's a stop-gap measure. Just trying to cover some of the "acne" where my car's clear coat is cracking and peeling. I plan on a full repaint next year (hopefully).

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Report this Post07-01-2003 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CC RiderClick Here to Email CC RiderSend a Private Message to CC RiderDirect Link to This Post

http://www.paintscratch.com/

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-01-2003 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Any auto paint supply shop can make any factory color from any year. All they need is the year and code. Use the clear that particular store sell. Never good to mix brands, some are very uncompatible. For small areas those small sprayers are fine. I always dry sand before paint. water seems to hide for days and run out on your last coat everytime. That primer doesnt have to be glass smooth, the paint will more than likely need color sanding and buffing anyway. Smoothness is not nearly as important as getting out all the nicks and scratches. Wet sanding, contrary to popular opinion, will not make the paint job any slicker. I been doing it for 40 years and no ones convinced me otherwise yet. On the other hand you cant hurt it by working more on it. We used to do custom paint jobs that were sanded between coats, and put on 30 or more coats. But the job was still never smoother than the last final coat when it was sanded and rubbed.

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Report this Post07-01-2003 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

High quality shops will even 400 wet sand the primer, blow it dry then wheel it into the spray booth to dry fully.

That is incorrect. Wet sanding doesn't do any better than dry sanding, and it can actually cause more problems than dry sanding. You might save a little on sandpaper, but as Roger said, and I agree, you cannot convince me wet sanding is better. I've done both, and I will never wet sand before primer again.

Mark

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Report this Post07-01-2003 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JD86GT350Send a Private Message to JD86GT350Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Also, I'm having a hard time finding 88 GM Bright Red (Code 81?) paint in anything other than touch up tubes. I was hoping to find some spray bombs. Failing that, I guess I can get a pint or quart (whatever size they have) from a dealership. Has anyone ever used those refillable aerosol sprayers with any success? Eastwood Co. sells some. It's got a cup for the paint, and an aerosol propellant can attaches to it, the you use it like a spray can. That's about my only option since I don't have any other equipment.

Any paint supply company should be able to mix up some paint for you as well. I used to mix 2 oz bottles for folks all the time. They may tell you they can't mix quantities that small (which may be true depending on the color, or they may just be lazy) in which case you'll have to get a 1/2 pint or pint.

Preval also makes a little aerosol sprayer like that as well.

------------------

My Car

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Firefox
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Report this Post07-01-2003 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

My paint supplier makes up spray bombs. You just order the color by code and they give you a spray can 15 minutes later. Call a few auto paint stores and ask if they make up spray bombs.

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1985FieroGT
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Report this Post07-02-2003 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1985FieroGTClick Here to Email 1985FieroGTSend a Private Message to 1985FieroGTDirect Link to This Post

How about doing an entire fiero with a spray bomb for us cheaper folk? Could you get a high quality "$2,000" paint job, if you do the work right, with one of those aersol cans? What about that new krylon Fushion paint, thats suppoased to molecularlly bond to all plastics?

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Report this Post07-02-2003 06:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JD86GT350Send a Private Message to JD86GT350Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 1985FieroGT:

How about doing an entire fiero with a spray bomb for us cheaper folk? Could you get a high quality "$2,000" paint job, if you do the work right, with one of those aersol cans?

nope, you get what you pay for....

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-02-2003 06:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Lets say you can color it with spray can. The biggest things against any kind of 'good' job is cans are way too low a pressure, the they spray maybe a 4" wide path. A spray guns path is usually around a foot wide and in a much shorter time. Compare it to cutting your lawn with a string trimmer and you get the idea.

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Report this Post07-02-2003 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post

We working on getting Rie's 86SE ready to go to Vegas. I am taking your advice about getting it painted with the windshield out, Roger.

The top of her car is REALLY sunbaked! It feels like sandpaper on the roof. I got the part about scuffing and all that, but what do I do with this rough stuff?

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-02-2003 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

sand longer........

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Songman
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Report this Post07-02-2003 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post

Dang! I was afraid of that! haha

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84Bill
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Report this Post07-02-2003 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Firefox:

That is incorrect. Wet sanding doesn't do any better than dry sanding, and it can actually cause more problems than dry sanding. You might save a little on sandpaper, but as Roger said, and I agree, you cannot convince me wet sanding is better. I've done both, and I will never wet sand before primer again.

Mark

Whatever

The reason for wet sanding is to keep the dust down. In a shop like MAACO where a 150 paint job is the norm, the customer gets what he pays for. You walk in and you will see 3 kids blasting away with orbital sanders, dust and dirt everywhere, various mid level cars in the lot and invaribly 1 or 2 that need rework because the customer cant see around the mountians of dust embedded in the paint on the hood and overspray everywhere.

In a high quality shop run by someone not willing to compromize on quality and is stingy with every penny so he can afford fly off to Italy every other month and has a top notch reputation. You will certinly find 2 kids (that will not be there next week because the quit this BS job) with buckets of soapy water and a small (putty) squeege block wet sanding a car before its primed. They might have one orbital sander but it never gets used. The paint job will be 3k, there will be NO overspray, there will be little to no dust or imperfections in the paint and there will be high dollar cars in the lot.

I do it old school, a bucket of soapy water and hours of WAX ON, WAX OFF. No burnt corners, no greasy finger prints, no dust in the shop or in the paint and no problems with fish eye. No need to compound or wet sand the finished paint.

PM Ski and ask him if his painter wet or dry sands in his shop.

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-02-2003 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 1985FieroGT:

How about doing an entire fiero with a spray bomb for us cheaper folk? Could you get a high quality "$2,000" paint job, if you do the work right, with one of those aersol cans? What about that new krylon Fushion paint, thats suppoased to molecularlly bond to all plastics?

Something else to consider. Check the prices on a spary bomb of OEM paint. It costs a LOT more per oz. than if you just bought a gallon of paint. Even if you could get a decent paint job with spray bombs, it would cost much more than you may think.

I've seen it done. It might look better than bondo and multiple color body panels, but that's about it.

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Report this Post07-02-2003 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

Well.........I guess I don't know what the hell I'm talking about then, do I?

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Report this Post07-02-2003 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MXRose3Click Here to Email MXRose3Send a Private Message to MXRose3Direct Link to This Post

since were on this subject, i'd thought i'd throw a question in. My 86' Gold SE is on its second paint job from the previous owner. Its not faded, but its ugly as sin (not the original gold), and its chipping in a lot of places, plus there was no clear coat put on it, so its just plain dull... My question is: Should i sand down to the original primer before i repaint this car? If so, what grade sandpaper should i use?

Bob

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Report this Post07-02-2003 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SplineZClick Here to visit SplineZ's HomePageClick Here to Email SplineZSend a Private Message to SplineZDirect Link to This Post

I have many many layers of paint on this car, and its all chipping and **** .. Would it be wise to take it RIGHT down to the plastic and reprimer/paint? Can I use a chemical stripper to get all this crap off? there have got to be atleast..4-5 layers of crap...

James Z

------------------

- 2.8v6, 5spd
- no cat, msd ignition/coil, K&N

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Report this Post07-03-2003 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1985FieroGTClick Here to Email 1985FieroGTSend a Private Message to 1985FieroGTDirect Link to This Post

Nope, you gotta sand, stripper will destroy it.

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Report this Post07-03-2003 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SplineZClick Here to visit SplineZ's HomePageClick Here to Email SplineZSend a Private Message to SplineZDirect Link to This Post

I was reading somewehre on a corvette site that thats what they recommend... *shrug*

I was talkin to someone today about it, they said I can get the car "Bead Blasted". Like sandblasting but use plastic pellets intead of sand... yay? nay?

James Z

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- no cat, msd ignition/coil, K&N

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-03-2003 08:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Bead blasting is the best way to go for a lot of paint removal. You dont have to sand to original primer or plastic. Sanding off just the peeling paint should be sufficient. DONT use any kind of liquid stripper, I guarantee youll end up very sorry

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-03-2003 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

A lot of the wet sanding myth is just because thats what people thought they were supposed to do from day one. Any body/paint shop is going to have lots of dust, more from sanding filler than paint. Thats why most have a sealed booth for painting. Any high dollar paint job will be color sanded and buffed. Just sprayed and delivered is usually only the cheaper shops. I do both depending on what the customer wants. I get many cars from a couple of dealers that just want the quickie to get it done cheap to sell it. I also get a lot of high dollar jobs on Ferraris, Corvettes, Porsches or restoration jobs from people who wont even consider like a dealership body shop. One guy for example has a 'fleet' of Porsches that will only allow me to do any work on his cars. Been a steady customer for almost 20 years. I dont even wet sand the finish coat anymore. I use the 3M finishing paper to color sand with an orbital sander prior to buffing with compound.

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Firefox
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Report this Post07-03-2003 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

Hmmmmm......maybe I DO know what I'm talking about.....



Mark

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-03-2003 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post

Sounds like I need to make a road trip to Columbus, Roger, and get you to paint my car.

How much would you charge me if I helped?
Would it cost less if I didn't help?

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SeattleRedFormula
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Report this Post07-03-2003 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SeattleRedFormulaClick Here to Email SeattleRedFormulaSend a Private Message to SeattleRedFormulaDirect Link to This Post

Is it reasonable to remove each panel and paint it off the car? It seems like more work but for an old guy like me perhaps less awkward because I could sand and paint each item on a tabletop without all the stooping over. Could build a small spray booth from a large cardboard box. Would I get more even spray coverage and fewer runs as more surfaces would be closer to horizontal? I understand why a shop wouldn't do it this way but what about it for someone without a clean shop?

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Report this Post07-03-2003 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroV6DudeClick Here to visit FieroV6Dude's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroV6DudeSend a Private Message to FieroV6DudeDirect Link to This Post

I'm in the midst of painting my 86 S/E right now with all the panels off, you still need a large area to paint in and it still needs to be relatively sealed, have ventilation and filtered air to avoid dust. The hood and deck lid are both good sized, plus even with all the panels off you still have to paint the roof and rear quarter panels.

On a sidenote, people that use silicone wax should be shot...(just an observation after re-clearing the hood twice to get rid of fisheyes.)

Glenn

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-03-2003 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Im not taking in a all over jobs for quite a while. I got cars stacked up for repair work, and theres a lot more money in that part of it. All over jobs arent really cost effective. Ill be happy to get to work on my GT40 very much by fall.

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84Bill
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Report this Post07-03-2003 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post

Not to argue the point with Roger but if you want a quick easy method of sanding then an orbital sander works great. Just remember that you can "burn" off an edge fairly quick (then touch it up or spray and blend) if you don't know better. Roger is obviously expierenced and time consious, time = money.

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Report this Post07-03-2003 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

I use my DA sander almost every day. I wear one out every year or two, and those are good ones not the $40 specials. Ill DA sand hoods, roofs, trunk lids and other large flat areas with #360, hand sand edges and corners and tack and paint. I also use It with 3Ms 1200 finishing paper to DA the final clearcoat for buffing.

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Report this Post07-04-2003 12:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 88-DOHCClick Here to Email 88-DOHCSend a Private Message to 88-DOHCDirect Link to This Post

I have done paint jobs on previous vehicles I have owned (used wet sanding to prep) so with that I have been trying to glean from this thread what advantages does one method have over the other. From all this, and reading between the lines is that basicly the only real advantage to dry sanding over wet sanding is the ability to use power tools on the larger flat areas? Is that the only advantage?

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Report this Post07-04-2003 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefoxSend a Private Message to FirefoxDirect Link to This Post

The only advantage, in my opinion, is that the sandpaper goes farther. You'll still get dust from the bodywork, so you still have to deal with that. The big disadvantage, in my opinion, is that it takes a long time to dry before you spray, because the water gets into everything and sits there, until you hit it with a blast of air....then it shoots all over. That's not good for a paint job. If you need to spray more primer while you are sanding, you need to wait a long time until the moisture gets out of the primer before you spray more primer. Primer is not waterproof, and will hold some of the moisture, so if you don't let the car sit for a LONG time, depending on weather, you'll paint over a moist primer job.

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Report this Post07-04-2003 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Smoooooth GTSend a Private Message to Smoooooth GTDirect Link to This Post

Very Informative thread...

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~~Steve~~
~~SmoothGT~~


SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com

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