ok, I have just sanded the car with 320 and 400 gt. sandpaper, washed it down and then used some more dewaxer on it. My black SE now looks gray. last night i brushed on a few samples of my acrylic primer-surfacer and left it set all night. today i went out and used a 320 and 400 gt. sandpaper on it and most of it came off. should i be using a higher grit paper ? or am I doing something wrong? Please Help.. thanks
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09:10 AM
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James Bond 007 Member
Posts: 8868 From: California.U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2002
i am going to repaint the entire car so i bought a gal. of primer-surfacer. do you think i need sealer onthe car befor or after primer? or just the sealer and no primer? I could use all the help i can get. this is somethng that i always wanted to do for myself. so i am taking my time at it. thanks
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12:24 PM
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
Stick with the 320 as the smoothest sandpaper to use before priming. Any smoother and the primer won't have anything to grip to. Once you have your primer on, sand smooth with 320. You should be ready for paint at that point.
Mark
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12:45 PM
Randy Member
Posts: 27 From: decatur indiana Registered: Mar 2003
i have to say.. after i sanded with 320 and 400 grit the car is as smooth as a babys butt. do you think i should go over the entire car with 320 or 240 sandpaper just so the primer will stick? what about a sealer? thanks
If the body panels are in good shape, and you haven't done any kind of repair, you don't necessarily need primer. The primer just helps you with imperfections like scratches and pinholes, depending on what kind you use. The sealer helps make everything more uniform before you spray your color. For example, spraying primer in spots. If you didn't use sealer, you'd see different shades, rings, etc. And I'd reccommend using at least 400 grit before sealing and painting. Are you using a single stage paint, or base color, then clear coat?
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02:04 PM
Randy Member
Posts: 27 From: decatur indiana Registered: Mar 2003
the car is in fine shape, no real bad nicks or cuts. are you saying i might get by just paint the new paint over the old without a sealer? i plan on using M-S base coat/and clear coat thanks
Even with surface prep chemicals, I always prefer to scuff the whole vehicle with fine paper. It breaks the old paint so the new stuff can get a really good bite. This is wether or not you will prime that area.
Do you need to prime everything....
can be a tough call.
If you are changing color or have many areas that have been sanded to the metal/plastic/glass then you should probably prime the whole car.
Primer, obviously is to make the paint stick better on a fresh surface but it has another property. The Primer also provides a uniform base color to shoot over. Example... If you have a black car and you've sanded the hood to a bunch of white areas, those white areas can show thru the new black paint unless the whole panel is primed first.
Choice of primer should also be at least partly based on what color you will shoot over it. Example... Using a dark primer under a light color can make the paint darker and/or force you to use alot more paint to get the color right.
------------------ Screamin' Yellow Zonkers... If it's Screaming and Yellow, I aint eatin it.
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04:53 PM
Randy Member
Posts: 27 From: decatur indiana Registered: Mar 2003
yes i am thinking about primeing the entire car. but just like my test spot i did last night, when i went and used 320 grit on it all of the primer came off. are you saying what comes off and what stays on after sanding the primer will be ok for me to go ahead and paint? what about sealer? thanks
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05:05 PM
James Bond 007 Member
Posts: 8868 From: California.U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2002
When I had my car painted (at Earl Sheib)I sanded the whole car and didnt primer, I read a book on auto painting and no, you dont have to primer if you dont want to.Unless you have a few diffrent colord body panels (something you picked up at the wrecking yard and installed).The car should be uniform in color prior to painting.I beleive the primer SEALER is to prevent the paint from fadeing and is used as a barior on body work (over the body puddy)and is also used on fiber glass.I will E-Mail some painting tips.Any primor you use should be as close as possible to the color of paint your going to use.
yes i am thinking about primeing the entire car. but just like my test spot i did last night, when i went and used 320 grit on it all of the primer came off. are you saying what comes off and what stays on after sanding the primer will be ok for me to go ahead and paint? what about sealer? thanks
this is a job that if not done right, you will wish you took to someone that knew what they were doing..because to fix it is twice as hard as painting it.. but here goes some simple steps to follow..
first off hope you got some cash, you'll need it for materials and supplies. I'm asuming you've never lifted a finger and tried to paint anything.. first ask your self what kinda condition is the car in..why does it really needed painted in the first place..? Old paint still on the car?? Well I don't know if your doing a color change or just tring to freshen it up.. since I can't see your paint I'm going to say remove it..if the old paint is bad it could cause you problems. go over the whole car with wax & grease remover ( three times ) making sure you dry it off witha clean rag BEFORE the solvent dries!!! Use 200grit wet and start sanding a panel at a time using uniform strokes preferable witha sanding block,if you don't you'll see it in the end product, there are some nice soft ones out now, Now that you gone over and removed all the paint down to factory primer I'm sure you've gone down to the body in some areas, thus the need for primer and primer sealers. I would use a good primer with a hardner in it to seal the body from the new paint.. hope you have a good spray gun, not a can, and a good compresser for the gun.. After you sprayed the primer on ( at least three wet coats ) you sand the whole car with 400-500 grit wet so that the whole car is smooooooth (nice even strokes again)DON'T sand through the primer to the old stuff or you have to reprimer again..after blowing off all the dust wax&grease three more times, then use a tack rag to get the dust off it... then spray your paint...
Now really this is the very short version of what you NEED to do and any, ANY mistakes will cause you more work.. things like improper sanding technics will ruin your work. not cleaning properly and throughly will ruin your work. Cheap spray equipment will ruin you work.. What it boils down to is that a really nice job is 90percent prep work and 10precent finish work and with the cost of materials and eqiupment don't go cheap (it shows!)and hope you have a nice dust free place to spray it too..
just to give you an idea; I just repainted my chin spoiler with plans of doing the nose later this year.. with materials, new spray gun & compresser your at a grand..
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[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-19-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-19-2003).]
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05:34 AM
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rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
You wont need primer over good paint, only on scratches or damaged places. Primer surfacer should be dry enough to sand in 30 minutes. I dont like catalyzed primer. Your final sanding should be at least #400 or scratches will show thru paint in a few weeks. DONT wash the primer with cleaner. You use that before you ever start sanding. Most decent cars can be sanded well enough for paint with just a scotchbrite pad with no adhesion problems. Sealer dont need to be put on unless theres special circumstances, like maybe changing to a lot lighter or darker color. I havent used sealer on but maybe 2 cars in 10 years. IF you do use it, it MUST be put on over primer. DONT use spray can primer except for temp coverage.
You DO have to sand primer prior to painting. Sealer on the other hand is sprayed on just like the first coat of paint, followed by the first color coat.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-19-2003).]
Roger isn't wrong....but you will find different opinions on bodywork no matter where ya go.. Not seeing for myself the current condition of your paint, I'm taking the worst case.. I would recomend you find someone to do it or help you out some so you don't waste your time or money..mistakes can be costly..
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
You wont need primer over good paint, only on scratches or damaged places. Primer surfacer should be dry enough to sand in 30 minutes. I dont like catalyzed primer. Your final sanding should be at least #400 or scratches will show thru paint in a few weeks. DONT wash the primer with cleaner. You use that before you ever start sanding. Most decent cars can be sanded well enough for paint with just a scotchbrite pad with no adhesion problems. Sealer dont need to be put on unless theres special circumstances, like maybe changing to a lot lighter or darker color. I havent used sealer on but maybe 2 cars in 10 years. IF you do use it, it MUST be put on over primer. DONT use spray can primer except for temp coverage.
You DO have to sand primer prior to painting. Sealer on the other hand is sprayed on just like the first coat of paint, followed by the first color coat.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-19-2003).]
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11:52 AM
Randy Member
Posts: 27 From: decatur indiana Registered: Mar 2003
well i made up my mind..i sanded the car with 400 grit. i will use a primer on the roof only thats the worst spot on the entire car. the rest ofthe car is really very good ill sand down the primer...then ill shoot a sealer then base coat then clearcoat. going to use dupont paints for the entire car. speak now or forever hold your peace.. thanks for all the input.
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06:34 PM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
DONT use spray can primer except for temp coverage.
So, Roger, Kameo, anyone... Do I need to COMPLETELY sand all my primer(spray can) when I do my final wetsanding?? I have used the med. grey primer and I am going with a white...
------------------ SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
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11:28 PM
May 20th, 2003
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
So, Roger, Kameo, anyone... Do I need to COMPLETELY sand all my primer(spray can) when I do my final wetsanding?? I have used the med. grey primer and I am going with a white...
So, Roger, Kameo, anyone... Do I need to COMPLETELY sand all my primer(spray can) when I do my final wetsanding?? I have used the med. grey primer and I am going with a white...
i'm seeing in your sig you have what looks like brown and gray primers... you need to have ALL ONE COLOR, preferrable gray for use witha light color.. I'm not a fan of canned primer but i'm not going to tell you to go out and buy a spray gun and unless you already have a compressor, spray gun puts on a more even coat and that is better for final sanding, but what you need at the end for painting is the car all one color of gray primer that was completely sanded smooooth with a min. of 400 grit and if you go through anywhere back to fillers then reprime that area and repeat sanding..
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03:12 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Id suggest at least a coat of automotive primer on the whole thing, then final sand it to paint. You also need to sand all the current primer before you add more. Paint will not stick to unsanded primer. If you leave the spray can primer you may or may not have compatiblity problems with the final paint. May crack, swell up, blister or peel. Ive seen some come up with first color coat like they were sprayed with stripper. You may get away with it, Ive seen some come out OK. But its not worth the risk of having to hand sand it all back down to glass again.
I normally only use gray primer when Im doing a silver car. I use red oxide on everything. Seems to me that paint dont stick on gray primer as well as red. Look at all the cars you see going down the street with peeling paint...what color is showing? Ive only had one car peel that had red, and that one was in a fire.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-20-2003).]
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07:32 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
I guess I will take a chance with the spray primer as I don't have a compressor, so I would have to go buy one and a gun.. oucho... I was going to just rent everything I needed to paint it myself.... I will go ahead and let the guy paint it instead of mr doing it... I will sand it smooth with #400 and sand it smooth...
Do I need to go with anything higher like #1000,#1500, #2000 before I have him shoot it with paint?? OR Do I just go with #400...?? What about any small slight scratching..??
Thanks for any input and help from ya'll...
ps. I am not trying to hijack this thread, I just had a few question's...
I was going to just rent everything I needed to paint it myself....
Do I need to go with anything higher like #1000,#1500, #2000 before I have him shoot it with paint?? OR Do I just go with #400...?? What about any small slight scratching..??
ps. I am not trying to hijack this thread, I just had a few question's...
SmoothGT!!
pss. oh yes you were...
the higher grits are for the paint or color coats to get the orange peel out or dust out before buffing.
scratches are a no no, if you can see that it is bigger or rougher than 400grit scratches it has to be sanded out or reprimed then sanded. to be on the safe side i would "if you haven't already" get a sanding block and board sander (jcw part #'s34064 & 31009) and go over the whole car with 120-200grit just to make sure that the surfaces are uniform and consider taking it almost all the way to bondo to remove as much of the "spray-canned" primer as possible, I would think about renting a gun and compresser for the last primer coats. Then apply 3-4 good wet coats, sand them with 400 grit (using blocks,not your hand that will make it wavey) on all the large flat areas. repriming and resanding light any areas that you would sand through. that should get you in the ball park for the painter... remember prep work is 90 percent of a good job
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09:44 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
Thanks Kameo... So, should ALL the spray can primer be removed?? Man, I hope not or I might not be through doing that until after the 20th...
Smooth!!
what kind of primer is on the car now?? am I right in thinking it's something out of a spray can..well dah if i could read huh??, Well hate to tell ya this buddy but the prep work is very important to a good paint job and I don't know how much time you have invested in Smoooooth but now is not the time to say "oh well that's good enough", because it WILL show in the final product..look at it this way if you take you time and don't rush it sanding and block sanding will not only get out the imperfections and level out the base it will get rid of the cheap primer that will be the base for you paint job, minimizing any troubles caused by the stuff. then put on 3-4 more wet coats of good primer, finish sanding it with say 500 grit wet and continue to use your sanding blocks. This should achieve a good base for you paint job.. "Dont worry bout it being done for the 20th, don't rush it because it will show.. just set your sites on the finished product and do it right." and are we using Base/Clear paint.."that is a whole nother thread"
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-21-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-21-2003).]
well i made up my mind..i sanded the car with 400 grit. i will use a primer on the roof only thats the worst spot on the entire car. the rest ofthe car is really very good ill sand down the primer...then ill shoot a sealer then base coat then clearcoat. going to use dupont paints for the entire car. speak now or forever hold your peace.. thanks for all the input.
Randy if the rest of the car is pretty good then all you need to do is "scuff" the paint with 400grit, you wouldn't have to take it down to factory primer
Thanks Kameo... So, should ALL the spray can primer be removed?? Man, I hope not or I might not be through doing that until after the 20th...
Smooth!!
if you use 120 grit and blocks for sanding you should be able to block sand it out in a day. followed up by priming and finish sanding you'd have two days in it
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-21-2003).]
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12:36 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
The paint on it is in overall good shape however the previous owner didn't know what 400# sandpaper was. Lot's of grind and sand marks in it.
I'm using duPont products and have been using 131S Fill -n- Sand primer after I've scuffed the existing paint extremely well. I have the car almost completely taken apart and will be painting the panels this way.
My concern is on the duPont site, they don't recommend 131S on flexible panels. I don't plan on using it on either front or rear fascia but have used it on the aero rockers, front fenders and rear lower quarters. I plan on sealing the car with Mar-Hyde Ultimate 2K urethane sealer before the base coat. Do you think I'll have a problem with the 131-S?? All panels have been hand sanded with 400 so they are baby butt smooth.
------------------ Plastic's Fantastic...
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04:36 PM
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
I'm going to suggest that you rent the compressor and spray your good primer with that. You'll be able to get the good primer on there and it won't cost all that much. I painted my first car with a rented gasoline powered compressor, and it came with a gun and good length of hose. So, if you buy primer and thinner, you can prime yourself and get her ready.
Mark the paint guy
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06:51 PM
FieroV6Dude Member
Posts: 205 From: Coloma MI USA Registered: May 2002
The paint on it is in overall good shape however the previous owner didn't know what 400# sandpaper was. Lot's of grind and sand marks in it.
I'm using duPont products and have been using 131S Fill -n- Sand primer after I've scuffed the existing paint extremely well. I have the car almost completely taken apart and will be painting the panels this way.
My concern is on the duPont site, they don't recommend 131S on flexible panels. I don't plan on using it on either front or rear fascia but have used it on the aero rockers, front fenders and rear lower quarters. I plan on sealing the car with Mar-Hyde Ultimate 2K urethane sealer before the base coat. Do you think I'll have a problem with the 131-S?? All panels have been hand sanded with 400 so they are baby butt smooth.
well dude sounds like you getting it preped ok but I know nothing bout these products your using and the best I can tell ya is to go to a bodyshop supply store and ask them because there around many people in the trade and product reps all the time "sorry"
I'm going to suggest that you rent the compressor and spray your good primer with that. You'll be able to get the good primer on there and it won't cost all that much. Mark the paint guy
DITTO..... well depending on what type of primer you use and where you rent the equipment from. .costs will vary, still is a good investment for a good job..
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12:40 AM
ws6fiero Member
Posts: 168 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Oct 2002
smoooth, If panels are straight, wet sanded w/400, & no burn thru you might talk with your painter about useing a sealer. Most sealers do not need sanding b4 top coating & might save you some time / $ . This being said, I would prime it...
i stoppd at the paint shop after work today and got my stuff. the dupont boys sold me 1qt. of vs7cp the sealer and its reducer. they said 1 qt. would go around the car. and 2 qts. of 99k chromabase black and its reducer. and 2qts of v-7500s and its reducers thats the clearcoat. this stuf cost me an arm and a leg. these guys were very helpful to explan the how toos and the time frame between panting the different items. going to paint it this weekend if i can come up with the time.
