just curious. Seems interesting.....

I don't see any reason in the world that it won't work, I just pulled the same engine out of my car, only difference is I dont have a turbo on it. (had to make some room for my 3.4 DOHC) Good luck finding one though, they are VERY rare. If you do, be sure to tweak it alittle for some more boost.

------------------
Matt D
1984 Indy Fiero 4sp.
1985 2m4 4T60, DIS V6 3.1
Once again, another chance of plans, a 1996 3.4 DOHC with this...

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: I don't see any reason in the world that it won't work, I just pulled the same engine out of my car, only difference is I dont have a turbo on it. (had to make some room for my 3.4 DOHC) Good luck finding one though, they are VERY rare. If you do, be sure to tweak it a little for some more boost.

Provide that you used the turbo Grand Prix harness and ECM I believe that this conversion would work fine. Unless you now have access to this engine you will find that they are next to impossible to find. You cannot just crank up the boost on these engines. The program in the ECM has an overboost control function that will shut the engine down if the boost goes much above the stock setting. If you change the ECM program it could be done.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

BumP

bump

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: You cannot just crank up the boost on these engines. The program in the ECM has an overboost control function that will shut the engine down if the boost goes much above the stock setting.

The stock setting is 11.43 PSI. This is not going to be a limiting factor unless you can find an intercooler system (that will fit in a Fiero) with an equivalent efficiency to that of the front mount TGP intercooler.
Without this very efficient intercooler, knock retard could easily offset most of the performance benefit, even from the relatively small stock TGP turbocharger.
So, when installing into a Fiero, the boost limit would need to be decreased to obtain the level of boost possible without knock (eg. ~8 psi without an intercooler).

The TGP exhaust crossover pipe is a POS… it cracks if you look at it wrong.
A new one is well over $1000. There is one aftermarket alternative that supposedly addresses the OEM design flaws, but it is also very expensive. In fact, most of the turbo specific parts of the TGP motor are considered rare and command a premium price (even from GM). The TGP turbo is VERY expensive to upgrade since the housings and flange are unique.

It is obviously much better to just fabricate your own system based on an off the shelf aftermarket turbo design.

[This message has been edited by 00lE (edited 07-05-2002).]

quote Originally posted by 00lE: The stock setting is 11.43 PSI. This is not going to be a limiting factor unless you can find an intercooler system (that will fit in a Fiero) with an equivalent efficiency to that of the front mount TGP intercooler.

Not quite, 9.5 psi for 10 seconds will shut down the TGP motor. Normal boost is 7.5 psi. Its easy to get over this though, safely to 15 psi, maybe more.

quote The TGP exhaust crossover pipe is a POS… it cracks if you look at it wrong.

Righton here! The aftermarket ones are a great item, but aren't cheap either. But neither is anything on a TGP. I wish I could get the kind of money you speak of for these parts. Most guys don't want to part with the money they just part with the car. I picked up a RUNNING car for $700 last year. Pretty rough, but it cleaned up nicely.

I agree on the fabricate your own. But, if you can find a TGP engine complete, go for it as it sits.
Possible problems: Downpipe routing, fiero goes off the "front" of the engine, TGP goes off back. You can't just flip the turbo upside down. The trans mount on the TGP also serves as the turbo mount. You'll need to address that. The ECM is external mount, so that may be a benefit for under hood mounting, or in the trunk perhaps. Radiator capacity. You think a 2.8 fiero is hot? Try a turbo 3.1. They have a very large 3 core high efficiency radiator to try and keep things cool, as well as external trans, and oil coolers. However, this shouldn't be too far past a v8 cooling system. As far as intercooling, why not look into a watercooled system. Not as great as Air to Air, but its better than HOT air! Speaking of which, since the TGP motor piping needs an intercooler, you will have to change that as well.

So in the end, you'll probably have to redo most of the stuff you'll be buying it for.

Chris

.

[This message has been edited by 00lE (edited 07-06-2002).]

I bought one of these engines a while back, and I have every intention of using it with a Getrag.

Exhaust: Where the stock Fiero exhaust goes is of no concern since a none of it can be reused when power jumps from 140 to 225. Since I'm going to be using a Getrag, I'll have to redo the turbo mount anyway. Is the turbo flange symmetric?

ECM: there's a cult of TGP code hackers at www.diy-efi.org

Cooling: Power == heat. A 300 HP SBC will put more waste heat into the coolant than a 225 HP 3.1 turbo. I'm currently running a Northstar with the stock Fiero V6/5 speed radiator. A turbo 3.1 can't need much more. If it does, I'll just drop in an Archie radiator.

Intercooling: improving the stock TGP intercooler shouldn't be hard. As I recall, it's less than 1 foot square. I could run air/water, or even air/freon if I really get adventurous.

Alternator: The engines with Gen II & III heads mount the alternator high enough on the right side of the engine that it interferes with the reinfocing channel on the underside of the decklid. I think that some machining will allow me to use the stock Fiero alternator mount bracket and avoid this problem.

quote Originally posted by Will: ECM: there's a cult of TGP code hackers at www.diy-efi.org

Will, Have you seen a hack of the TGP code? I've found several bin files but not a disassembly or even a good "map" of the table locations. I'm playing around with disassembling it, but it's definitely slow going.

I haven't gotten that far yet. I do however see the topic come up quite frequently on the GMECM list.

quote Originally posted by Will: Exhaust: Where the stock Fiero exhaust goes is of no concern since a none of it can be reused when power jumps from 140 to 225. Since I'm going to be using a Getrag, I'll have to redo the turbo mount anyway. Is the turbo flange symmetric?

Yes it is, while you can physically "flip" the turbo on the flange of the crossover, it will sit higher and put the compressor right in the way of the throttle body. I have never tried, but thought about this approach before. I'm just afraid that you would have to redo the flange or crossover. I'm not sure if you can run the down pipe straight off the back of the motor (opposite of normal fiero) without interfering with the axle/transmission or not. That would be ideal, but I haven't looked into it too much. Then it wouldn't be hard to get the air cleaner to the turbo inlet at all. The TGP turbo sits kinda low and on top of the transmission. Depending on which 5 speed you have, the linkage may interfer with the turbo's stock location.

If you start redoing too much on the engine, you might as well have done it from scracth. Besides a "slightly" lower CR, there isn't anything that special about the engine. It does have a bigger oil pump and rolled crank, but all 3.1 v6's do now.

quote ECM: there's a cult of TGP code hackers at www.diy-efi.org

Yea, but besides the one guy who makes the chips for these things, there is another who has done some hacking but doesn't really have any results. Then there were a few guys about 6 or 7 years ago. In the last couple of years I haven't seen any real information about it, or any good leads to get started. I don't have the equipment yet to do any burning, but I also haven't been able to find enough information to get started from square one on the TGP code. THere is a program out there just for the TPG code that allows you to change some settings, so I suppose you just have to look hard enough. Still, I don't think a good map or hack like we want is readily available.

quote Cooling: Power == heat. A 300 HP SBC will put more waste heat into the coolant than a 225 HP 3.1 turbo. I'm currently running a Northstar with the stock Fiero V6/5 speed radiator. A turbo 3.1 can't need much more.

Right, power=heat. Waste heat in the radiator is one thing, but I guess I should have emphasized the engine bay temp. I can guarantee that the engine will need as much cooling as a sbc, and more than the northstar. Its a HOT motor, and makes underhood VERY hot. Just things to keep in mind. You should also look into wrapping and coating as many exhaust and intake pipes as possible, and to heat proof some of the hoses and lines. On one of our cars, this has helped ALOT but it is still very hot, and over 12 years of use wires, fuel lines and other hoses have taken a beating.

quote Intercooling: improving the stock TGP intercooler shouldn't be hard. As I recall, it's less than 1 foot square. I could run air/water, or even air/freon if I really get adventurous.

I was worried about where to stick an AIR/AIR in the fiero, but even though its an efficient core, the TGP Icooler is too small. Don't wast your time with the stock intercooling.

Alternator: The engines with Gen II & III heads mount the alternator high enough on the right side of the engine that it interferes with the reinfocing channel on the underside of the decklid. I think that some machining will allow me to use the stock Fiero alternator mount bracket and avoid this problem.[/B][/QUOTE]

Maybe you could try to retrofitt a 3.4 TDC accesory bracket to the TGP? Don't know how feasible it is, but it does mount low (unfortunately for the wbodies that it is in)