i have to relate some questions and personal axperience on the paint job that i am receiving on my car. this is a copy of what i sent to roger garrison.. just wanted some additional thoughts on it.
"My GT is getting painted, it was '86 red, and I'm having it painted '88 red. It was rough in a few spots(rear bumper had a small rip, the front one was rough, and the hood needed a little work (which i will describe)).
The hood was not properly repaired 10 years ago, when it had been slightly pulled back around the right headlight bucket (it looked normal, but had some imperfections in the bodywork around it).
Anyway, so this guy gave me a quote on painting my car ($1200).. I told him I didn't want a show quality, but wanted something better than Maco. I droped the car off a week early (he said he needed a weeks notice and it would take a week to paint the car).
So, 2 weeks later, I talk with him and he says that the car should be ready towards the end of the week... later that week, he calls me and says that he has the car ready for paint (last thursday), but that he needed half of the money. No problem, right? I go there, the car is prepped and sanded... looks really good... even used red primer. So I pay him, chat with him, and he says the car should be ready on monday.
Weekend goes by, I call him monday AM, he says painted car late friday nite, sanding now.. call him back at 5:30. Come 5:30, cars not ready. Tuesday, I talk to him at 2 PM... car willl be ready at 7:30.
Wife and I show up at 7:45... car looks beautifull... they are finishing the wax job, and the paint looks all good (really a good mirror finish). However, upon closer inspection, there were several (4-5 on the right side alone) imperfections in the clear coat (looked like nats), and the hood (in the area described above) was discolored.. just a shade darker than everything else. At first, I thought I could be seeing a shadow, so I moved the car... still there, my wife acknowledge's the spot... he doesn't see it!?! Anyway, I left him the car (and $300 more, for a total of $900 of the $1200, all on my behalf), and told him to look at the car tomorrow, and tell me what he sees in the daylight.
I mean, come on... he paints car for a living... there is no reason he cant see this shade variance in the paint, right?
Also, as for the several "bugs" in the paint, he said that would wax out over time.. is that true or false? He told us that he had over 16 hours in the sanding job on the paint... if that was true, there wouldn't be any bugs in the paint, right?"
i would love to hear the opinions of others. as for the guy painting the car... i haven't talked with him today. either he has decided i'm right, or he is waiting on me to come by tomorrow.
hoop
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05:08 PM
PFF
System Bot
Hank is Here Member
Posts: 4445 From: Hershey, Pa Registered: Sep 2000
Originally posted by bHooper: they are finishing the wax job,
I know near zero about paint but think I know that a fresh paint job needs some time to dry (30 days or so) before waxing Or is this just a misconception that I have?
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05:20 PM
bHooper Member
Posts: 4156 From: greensboro, nc Registered: May 99
Originally posted by bHooper: ...Also, as for the several "bugs" in the paint, he said that would wax out over time.. is that true or false? He told us that he had over 16 hours in the sanding job on the paint... if that was true, there wouldn't be any bugs in the paint, right?"
Well, the bugs always show up when the color or clear is being sprayed. I think they have a sixth sense about that. They just love to land on the car being painted, but get stuck and sprayed over. I think if the insect was in the color coat, there's no real way of getting it out. If it was in the clear, it should be able to be sanded and buffed again. I'd have him fix those spots for sure. $1200 is a lot of money to pay for a paint job that should have been done from the start. Mine was $650, and there's four areas where there are clear coat drips. I already paid for it, but the paint guy doesn't intend on fixing it. He did tell me how I can do it myself, however.
no, you shouldn't wax the car soon after a paint job, but I'm sure they were compounding and polishing, which is different. Wax will seal the paint job, that's a bad thing right away because you need to allow the solvents the time to evaporate out of the finish.
If they're actually insects, they're in there and they're not coming out. They'll need to be sanded away, and re-cleared (hopefully they're not in the basecoat). If they're air bubbles they could be the result of oil/silicone residue (fisheyes) or solvent popping (using too fast a reducer and/or catalyst). But they'd still need to be wet-sanded out and buffed or re-cleared if too much film build was sanded away.
As for the color. He may just be BS'ing you, or he may not actually be able to see a difference where you can. He obviously painted it separate from the rest of the car (generally not the best way for match) and maybe with a different can of paint (hint: if you've got separate cans, mix them all together in a big container, then redistribute them in smaller cans), or at a different temp/air pressure. I used to sell paint, and we had a customer who was a major pain in the butt. He could actually see minor differences in the shade of a color where 95% of other people couldn't. He'd call up to complain that the paint we mixed him didn't match, we'd drive over and it looked perfect to everybody else who saw it.
if he spent 16 hrs wet sanding there's a problem somewhere!
roger won't steer you wrong.
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07:50 PM
bHooper Member
Posts: 4156 From: greensboro, nc Registered: May 99
roger gave me some comfort advice... thanks roger!
as for the car, i will be looking at it again tomorrow. hopefully, i can get the guy to reshoot the hood and be done with it. i am just ready to have my car back, after 3.5 weeks! it's already missed 2 autocross's... i don't want it to miss a 3rd!
as for the hood, it was prepped, sanded and painted with everything else. i just think there was either something with how he prepped the damage or maybe... i don't know.
either way, it is a little darker, in the area that he did the boddy work on.
------------------ hoop Red '86 GT 5 speed Borla Exhaust Eibach's/Poly/Kyb's
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10:26 PM
May 30th, 2002
bHooper Member
Posts: 4156 From: greensboro, nc Registered: May 99
i stopped by, today, to look at the car again. unfortunatly, it rained a bit so that made things a little difficult to see. either way, he still didnt see the spot. nor did my manager.
the paint guy said that he would mist the hood early next week and i could pick the car up on tuesday.
this car looks REALLY good... but that one spot!
------------------ hoop Red '86 GT 5 speed Borla Exhaust Eibach's/Poly/Kyb's
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06:06 PM
dcaprio Member
Posts: 643 From: Stroudsburg Pa Registered: Sep 2001
I had maaco paint a couple of cars for me and never had a bug in it. The different color may be caused by the guy trying fo fix a mistake by re-painting just that spot.
------------------ 84 coup 117000 miles 86 Gt Fastback conversion
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06:24 PM
Sophia Nova Member
Posts: 747 From: the 4th dimension Registered: Oct 2001
I don't think that's a misconception. I think you DO have to wait (or should, anyway) to wax/buff/i've even heard one should wait to wash the car after it has been painted. i don't know about that last one, though... ~sophia
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07:57 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
You can wet sand, buff with rubbing compound, and polish with a swirl remover within 24-48 hours after you shoot it. Dont put any kind of wax on it though for at least 30 days. I actually never ever wax mine at all. I only use polish. As far as washing, the next day is fine if you dry it so no water spots form. In fact we used to spray a fresh acrylic enamel job down with water a few hours after painting it, then use air hose to blow it dry. Made the paint really flow out for a high gloss without any buffing.
I forgot to ask, was this the regular red or metallic red. What you see could be mottleing which makes darker and liter spots/streaks in the paint if its metallic. The reason the bugs always come out for the paint is their attracted to the scent. Also if you notice at car shows there very attracted to the yellow and orange cars. There always covered. I try to do my all over jobs early in the mornings, before the bugs start getting active. Evening is the worst time. all the bugs are out, and there coming to the light and paint scent. I once had a monarch butterfly land in the middle of a Camaro hood. We just patted it down and kept clearing. It did look pretty awesome. Everyone at a car show wondered how i got it to look so 'realistic'
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-30-2002).]
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08:49 PM
bHooper Member
Posts: 4156 From: greensboro, nc Registered: May 99
Roger, this is regular red. It's '88 red number WA-8774 U81 No metalic. I'm seeing a shadow in the paint... a "shadow" he doesn't see. He said he would mist the hood and we will go from there.
------------------ hoop Red '86 GT 5 speed Borla Exhaust Eibach's/Poly/Kyb's
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09:59 PM
May 31st, 2002
GTDude Member
Posts: 9056 From: Keysville, Virginia, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Im getting into painting cars, for my fiero and my vw beetle project. So im reading a book i have right now about how to paint my own car.
But what ive read is that, the paint needs a few days, to a few months, to really "dry" and i suppose that why the wax shouldn't be applied and it prevents the drying from happening.
16 hours to wetsand? your car, seems like a very long time.
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11:32 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
16 hours to wetsand? your car, seems like a very long time.
Took lisa with a little help from me the better part of 2 days to final wet sand hers. If you want all the orange peel out, figure on an hour or 2 per panel. Of course it also depends on how smooth the paint went on too.
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01:02 PM
bHooper Member
Posts: 4156 From: greensboro, nc Registered: May 99
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Took lisa with a little help from me the better part of 2 days to final wet sand hers. If you want all the orange peel out, figure on an hour or 2 per panel. Of course it also depends on how smooth the paint went on too.
roger, did u misadjust the gun on purpose to cause orange peel? So you can spend an additional 2 days with lisa?
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04:21 PM
Jun 1st, 2002
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
LOL, no. Its nearly impossible to spray urathane clear without any orange peel. You could do it with the old enamels though. Even new cars (even Mercedes) has some degree of orange peel these days.
that I'm worried about when painting mine in a few month's... 
