Got my car running mostly good. Need to set the timing though. How do you go about doing this on the V6? I know its a computer thing (or so I've been getting the impression) so how do I do it? Or is it even possible for a back-yard mechanic to do?

Also, I get a code 32 after about 20-30 minutes of driving. What all does the EGR affect performance wise? Meaning, what is it messing up and how worried should I be that it isn't working properly?

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^{The Black Beauty (85 GT) - Bustedato (86 SE, Parts car)
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things
AOL IM: KSSouter
MSN IM: I_R_Sootah@hotmail.com}

You set the timing first by putting the computer in diagnostic mode. To do this, short the two adjacent pins at the far right end on the ALDL connector (behind the power socket trim piece, center console), then start the engine. You set the timing as the average of the #1 and #4 plugs closest to 10 degrees BTDC. i.e. 10/10, 11/9, 12/8, etc. It sounds harder than it actually is.

Dave

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- Silver '88 GT 5-speed 3.4 (1 of 139)
Major additions: black carpeting, IEI keyless entry, MP3 audio system, custom 10" subwoofer on external 50W amplifier, R-134 A/C, carbon-fiber interior accents, Rodney short shifter, KYB GR-2's, Panther wheels on Bridgestone S03PP 225/50/15 rubber
- Black '88 GT 5-speed LS1 at Archie's
- '87 & '98 Corvette Coupes

quote Originally posted by crazyd: You set the timing as the average of the #1 and #4 plugs closest to 10 degrees BTDC. i.e. 10/10, 11/9, 12/8, etc. It sounds harder than it actually is.

Getting into diagnostic mode is easy, I've pulled codes and all that. But you TOTALLY lost me there on the actual setting part. How does that work? And do you have to mess with anything else to set it?

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^{The Black Beauty (85 GT) - Bustedato (86 SE, Parts car)
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things
AOL IM: KSSouter
MSN IM: I_R_Sootah@hotmail.com}

As to your EGR problem, it is most likely a sticking EGR valve. I had the code problem too, just before the valve stuck itself open for good and REALLY made my engine act funny. The EGR system's job is to cool combustion chamber temps by feeding small amounts of inert exhaust gas back into intake air, thereby reducing some types of emissions. Pep Boys carries a Borg-Warner replacement for $40 that works on the V6s and would probably ship it to you out there in Cedar.

Dave

Neh, I've got a parts car. I'll yank the one out of it and see if it still works. (Been sitting 3-5 years)

It works like this. You have to set the timing on BOTH the #1 and #4 cylinders. 10 degrees total average timing is the number you want when you average the readings you get from #1 and #4. Make sense?

Ah, but that doesn't tell me how to do the actual SETTING. What do I play with in there to tweak it? So far all it sounds like is I slap her in diag mode, start it, and cross my fingers hoping she'll fix herself.

loosen bolt holding distributor and turn (clock wise or counter) it until the timeing is closest to 10 degrees BTDC on both number 4 and 1 cylinders (add the two readings together and divide by two)
I think we are assuming you know that
a timeing light is needed to do it!
the directions should be posted right under your deck lid! (right hand side on a white sticker)

(6)...(4)•...(2)

water pump side -->

(5)...(3)...(1)•

[This message has been edited by fierodave (edited 02-09-2002).]

Thanks Dave, I think I assumed a little too much!!

I've heard the 2.8 v6 runs better at 11 BTDC. It will give out more emissions but it will get better gas mileage and run 1 or 2 horses stronger. You also have to run 91 or higher octane cuz it has a tendency to preignite.

Should someone also mention that to do the job one needs to use an inductive timing light or shop style timing equiment?

Running 11 degrees BTDC is retarding the timing, hence you could use lower octane fuel because the the air/fuel mixture is not being compressed as much before being ignition starts. Right or is it just too late; Mr. Guinness? Maybe you are thinking of setting it at 8 degress BTDC; for some odd reason I think this is where I set mine; don't ask 'cause I don't remember why. Anyway, as long as it is close, because the ECM will adjust it. And, if it is close it will be easy to start. The ignition module controls timing up to something like 400 RPMs, then the ECM takes over.

Cheers!

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Finally got to drive the 88GT today. Definitely has a different personality compared to the 2.5L car.

dunno I read it in a book once.

I know about the timing light. I thought that perhaps there was some freaky way of making the computer do the timing itself.

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^{The Black Beauty (85 GT) - Bustedato (86 SE, Parts car)
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things
AOL IM: KSSouter
MSN IM: I_R_Sootah@hotmail.com}

quote Originally posted: A) Running 11 degrees BTDC is retarding the timing... B)...as long as it is close, because the ECM will adjust it.

Sorry, but I think the above statements could be a bit misleading. Just to clarify...

A) The factory-recommended initial timing is 10 degrees BTDC; setting it to 11 degrees BTDC would be advancing the timing, not retarding it.

B) As I understand it (on the V6s at least), the ECM adjusts (i.e., advances/ retards) ignition timing from the initial setting (where you set it at, with a timing light). The ECM won't correct a mistimed engine. It would need input from a crank position sensor to be that smart.

I'd recommend you set the initial timing to 10 degrees BTDC (like the destructions say on the tuneup sticker). See how you like it, and go from there .

Okay, I need to do mine as well. I've never ever done the timing, on any car. So does anybody have a good link to step by step instructions or could somebody make them for me and post or email them to me. I found an Induction Timing Light at AutoZone for like $39, heven't bought it yet tho.

I need EVERY step. I don't even know what the heck you do with the gun anyway!

Thanks guys, I think this might b3e my last step till registered!!!!

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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

For some reason I always think of timing advance and retard in terms of the location of the piston; so I'm backwards. If you think of it in terms of the angle, 10 degrees to 11 degress, then it it an advance. I suppose I should just read when Mr. Guinness visits and not post; I don't drive either.

Anyway, about the ECM controlling timing. As long as the timing is set within something like plus or minus 1 degree, could be 2, then the ECM can make accurate alterations.

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Steps to set timing.

1. Start engine and let it warmup so as to go into closed-loop operation.

2. Stop engine.

3. Jumper terminals A-B on the ALDL connector in the center console next to the lighter.

4. Loosen the distributor hold down so that the distributor can be turn - twisted clockwise and counterclockwise. It should not be loose, but firm to turn. Mark the base with chalk. When you get it to turn, then put it back where it was before SETTING the timing.

5. Attach timing light power leads to the battery.

6. Attach timing light inductive pickup to cylinder number one; don't let it lay on the exhaust.

7. Start engine. Point timing light at the timing tab. I recommend painting the wide timing mark on the harmonic balancer WHITE; easier to see. (First, find the timing tab towards the back of the car in the alternator area with a flashlight. Then you will know where to point the timing light.)

7a. Advance/Retard timing by turning the distrubutor so that the timing mark on the balancer is close to ten degrees on the timing tab. I've been shocked before when setting timing - so I always wear welding gloves. (Accel 50kV coil will get your attention. Up my arm, down my side, and out the bottom of my shoe.)

8. Move the timing light inductive pickup to cylinder number four. This time, take a reading of where it is at. Add this number to the results from cylinder number one and divide by two.

Example, numbers are for example only. If you set cylinder number one to 9 degrees and then check cylinder number four and it is 11 degrees. 9+11 = 20 and 20/2 = 10 degrees average. The ideal is to have (10+10)/2 = 10 degrees average.

Don't be suprised if one cylinder is a little before the mark, retared, and the other a little past the mark, advanced. (Did I keep that straight? )

The rest of the procedure is more of an art than fixed steps. The JIST of process is to time cylinder number one and number four so the average timing is as close as possible to 10 degrees. To do this may require checking both cylinders a couple of times and making small adjustments.

Hope this helps...

Sweetness! You rock mindscape, thanks! Sounds very easy now! I just hope I find that White timing tab.

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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

[This message has been edited by Mark Matthews (edited 02-11-2002).]

Unfortunately the timing tab is black with the marks and number imprinted. Actually, black on black on black is kind of neat, but not for a timing tab. The tab is on the timing chain cover. If you turn the crank by hand, probably with a 1/2 drive ratchet, you can find the wide timing mark on the harmonic balancer, PAINT this one, not the thin ones. On the V6 cars I've found that it is easy to find TDC on number 1 and number 4 if you lay on the ground behind the passenger tire, with the splash guard out of the way, turn the crank with 1/2 drive ratchet until you see the mark. You can also see the timing tab from this vantage point.

Also, when setting the timing, it is advisable to block the drive wheels and/or set the parking brake. AND, be sure to tighten the distributor back down when done so the timing doesn't drift.

The following pictures should clear up where.

1. Timing Mark and Timing Tab from below.

2. Timing mark and tab from above. Wiring harness may occlude seeing the tab and mark. This is where you point the timing light.

3. Negative image of the timing mark for detail.

[This message has been edited by mindscape (edited 02-11-2002).]

Okay, cool. So is this easier with two people since one would be on the ground using the gun? Also, since I've never used a timing gun, what exactly does it paint it with? White light, red light, etc.

Thanks, a guy from work is pretty sure he has an Induction Timing Light.

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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

Mark, the photo from the bottom view is to help you locate the timing tab and timing marks. You can set the timing by yourself from the top. BUT, you may want to paint the timing mark from the bottom. You can also see it without painting.

Timing light - uses a strobscopic element, white light.

quote Originally posted by Mark Matthews: Okay, cool. So is this easier with two people since one would be on the ground using the gun? Also, since I've never used a timing gun, what exactly does it paint it with? White light, red light, etc. Thanks, a guy from work is pretty sure he has an Induction Timing Light.

Here's an easy way to do the 1 & 4 averaging (or any cylinders for any other motor for that matter). Instead of clipping the inductive timing light on just one cyl wire, clip it on the coil wire. The light will fire for all cyls but because of the strobe effect, you will get a very clear strobe image for the timing marks. This assumes that a ballpark timing procedure has been done. i.e. don't use this method for initial timing if you have had the distributor out or have grossly moved it. Also, the method may not work on really cheapo lights due to overloading capacitance (time wise). It won't hurt the light but the light may "stay on".

One of the most informative posts I've seen for info. Complete with pics. And it has the right subject line so it will be easy to find in a search. (unlike some that just say HELP!!)Only thing I could possibly add is ya might want to recheck it after the final tightening of the dist, it sometimes moves as you tighten the hold down. Yall done good!

I just picked up a Haynes manual, I learned more in the first 10 pages of this $15 manual than my whole Chiltons manual. This manual should be a necessaty if you have a Fiero.

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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

Okay, so my timing is set at 12 on both 1 and 4. So I know I need to turn it clockwise, but I don't know where the bolt is on the V6. My manual shows a nice picture for the 4 but not the V6. Also, how big if incriments do I turn in, like a hair or like a good 1/4 inch? Thanks!

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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

It's something you will have to play with. 1/4 is probably the max it will take, maybe a little more & mark it where it is now, temporarily. Then when you get it set right. mark it permanantly on the dist base and the eng, so you can get it back in right if you ever have to pull it out. It will change a little over time, but it will get you back in the ballpark easily, without having much trouble. & take that Haynes manual info with a cautious eye, it's not always accurate.

So where's the bolt though? I can't find it. Anybody got a picture of that?

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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

What bolt? Distributor hold down?

It's a little difficult to see and loosen with everything installed.. If may be easier to access if you unbolt the ignition coil and heat shield and move them out of the way. Loosen it up, put one bolt back in the ignition coil, set the timimg and then remount the shield and ignition coil.

[This message has been edited by mindscape (edited 02-16-2002).]

I'm sure it will be clearer once I get the shield off, thanks!

-EDIT- Oh sweetness, it's actually pretty easy to get to if you come at if from the left side, didn't have to take anything off. Set at 10 now, thanks to all of you, and the awesome pictures mindscape!

Still having my hunting issue, but it's running sweet desides that!
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Mark Matthews
'87 GT Fastback T-top

[This message has been edited by Mark Matthews (edited 02-16-2002).]

Just a little tidbit for what it's worth...
Since the distributor clamp bolt isn't the easiest thing to see / get to, especially with the heat shields in place, I painted the bolt head & clamp with bright orange paint. Makes it easier to find and to get a wrench on (15mm box end, I think).

Also, makes it easier to find the bolt & clamp if I drop them, and they don't make it all the way to the floor. If (okay, when) I drop them, I just shine the droplight down there, and that flash of orange says I'm ready for "snaggin' it with a magginet."

BTW, this is for when I'm reinstalling a distributor, not just setting the timing. Kind of awkward to place the clamp and start the bolt, without dropping them at least once. For me, anyway