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Paint Prep by Hank is Here
Started on: 01-14-2002 10:00 PM
Replies: 27
Last post by: lowCG on 01-18-2002 09:01 PM
Hank is Here
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Report this Post01-14-2002 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hank is HereSend a Private Message to Hank is HereDirect Link to This Post

Okay I have searched archives and want to make sure I am correct in all of this information.

I have a black 88 GT that I plan to repaint, at this time I am not sure of the color but that should not matter. Right now I have some time to kill before I start my job. I want to prep the car for a pannels off paint job. I do not ant to do the actual painting----I'll pobably take it car to the local Buick dealer to get painted.

From what i gather:
use 320 grit paper
take off all shine of the clear
spend more time of corners and edges than flat large surfaces


Should I start out with 320 paper or should I do a rough sanding with a more coarse paper?
I have a random orbit sander and a jitterbug sander which is generally better?
I plan to leave the pannels on for most of te sanding then take them off to get the edges. ???
How do you sand the headlight door with PONTIAC in it well?
How many hours should a good sanding job take?

Thanks

Hank

[This message has been edited by Hank is Here (edited 01-14-2002).]

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84Bill
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Report this Post01-14-2002 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Hank is Here:

How do you sand the headlight door with PONTIAC in it well?

small shred of sand paper and lots of patience

Sounds good if you want to paint over the old paint, 320 works fine. I wet sand so I don't go through boatloads of paper but thats just me. Ordital sanders are great on flats but be real careful around edges, only takes a second.

Good luck danialsan

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Kasdan
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Report this Post01-14-2002 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KasdanClick Here to Email KasdanSend a Private Message to KasdanDirect Link to This Post

My car is currently wearing a nice coat of primer, with work to still be done. I filled in teh "PONTIAC" headlight w. bondo, added a ZR-1 Cowl Induction hood scoop, cut a hole above the radiator for the scoop, and added fastback scoops. started back in november....and i sanded the whole thing by hand using 220.

------------------
Tyler Morgan, 1986 GT

Aftermarket Power Steering, Rebuilt 2.8
http://www.geocities.com/mtyler14/index.html

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-15-2002 07:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

by hand I use #400 before the paint coat, or #320 on a DA orbital sander.

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84Bill
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Report this Post01-15-2002 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
by hand I use #400 before the paint coat, or #320 on a DA orbital sander.

400 wet on the primer?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-15-2002).]

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FieroGT87
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Report this Post01-15-2002 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGT87Click Here to Email FieroGT87Send a Private Message to FieroGT87Direct Link to This Post

If your using Chromabase/clear urethane I believe it calls for 600 grit on the final sand before painting the base & Clear. I would wet sand the car definately so you don't go through to much paper. I'm presentaly in the middle of repainting my 87GT. I'm using Chyslers Intense Blue Metalic with a clear over the top.
The picture is pre tear down.

87GT STL

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-15-2002 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
400 wet on the primer?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-15-2002).]

yes, wet saves sandpaper. Doesnt do it any smoother than dry though. I mostly dry sand because I dont want to risk water running down into fresh paint. No matter how much you blow and dry there always seems to be that little puddle hiding and waiting for your last coat of paint. Only time id finish sanding with finer than #400 is if I dont intend to sand and buff. If your going to wet sand and rub finished paint not much point in all the extra effort to prep it with 600 or finer.

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FieroGT87
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Report this Post01-16-2002 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGT87Click Here to Email FieroGT87Send a Private Message to FieroGT87Direct Link to This Post

Roger,

That's if you try and painting directly after wet sanding. But you can run into the same problem with dust from dry sanding. That why all the cars are wet sanded at the factory. Wet sanding you don't worry about dust. Water will dry, dust can stay there until blown out by air. I always wash the car down after sanding to look for imperfections in the primer. IF you use less than 400 grit sanding lines are going to show if your not careful. Plus if you have problems with the paint and follow the directions you can call out the local paint rep(at least with DuPont) and they replace the paint for free.

GT87 STL

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
yes, wet saves sandpaper. Doesnt do it any smoother than dry though. I mostly dry sand because I dont want to risk water running down into fresh paint. No matter how much you blow and dry there always seems to be that little puddle hiding and waiting for your last coat of paint. Only time id finish sanding with finer than #400 is if I dont intend to sand and buff. If your going to wet sand and rub finished paint not much point in all the extra effort to prep it with 600 or finer.

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-16-2002 07:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Ive been doing it forever. 30+ years. I paint usually within an hour or two of finish sanding. With HVLP gun (only about 6 pnds pressure) very little chance of dust blowing around and even if a little does blow out very ez to wet sand out later. Water on the other hand brings the complete job to a halt, to do over again the next day. As a business, I dont have the luxury of leaving a car sit around for days ready for paint. When its ready, I have to get it done to get it out the door for the next one.

about factory jobs, I dont think ANY cars are sanded at all for paint at factory anymore. there just cleaned, sprayed with a primer/sealer and color painted, cleared. Part of the reason factory paint falls off in a couple of years. Same thing happens at a large production body shop. They only sand repairs then paint panel as is. some just wash panel with a liquid prep for paint...which dont work btw. Im doing a front end of a car now that another shop did and i can blow the paint off the original with my air gun.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-16-2002).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-16-2002 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post

Please allow me to hijack this for just a moment...

It seems that a previous owner of my Formula (not gonna blame the guy I bought it from, because he only had it for a couple of weeks) Armor-All'd the body. It's black and has the typical white clouding on top of the fenders and spider-webbing on the roof.
I suppose that repeated washings will get it all off, eventually, but I've had it since April and every time I wash it, it still looks like there's some oil on the surface.
How do I get the Armor-All off? Prep-sol? Simple Green?
I don't want to have it painted, only to have huge sheets of paint fly off, the first time I hit a crack on the freeway.

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Raydar

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

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thomas_l
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Report this Post01-16-2002 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thomas_lClick Here to visit thomas_l's HomePageClick Here to Email thomas_lSend a Private Message to thomas_lDirect Link to This Post

I don't have the 30 years Roger has, but damn! I did the job on my 94 Crown Vic exactly as he said. I used 280 & 320 on my d/a and 400 for hand sanding. All sanding was done dry. I did have the luxury of waiting a day so I washed it down with water only and hit it with compressed air before stopping for the night. I went cheap and one-stepped it but it turned out OK. I used an HVLP gun with 8-10 psi but the paint flow was too high and it orange peeled. Wet sand with 1000 grit and polish brought out a good shine. I'll know better on the next one, prob my Fiero

Raydar: those rainbows are probably from some kind of wax product that was applied and embedded into the cracked up paint. I'd point it out to whoever does your paint job so they can prep & clean those areas real good.

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-16-2002 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

wash good a few times with hot water with lots of dawn dish soap. use a scrub brush to get in all the cracks and mouldings, rinse very good, dry and wash with lots of prep sol or similar. Wash about a 2 foot square spot at a time wet, then dry with paper towell and move to next spot. Its a real PITA to get off.

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-16-2002 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by thomas_l:
Raydar: those rainbows are probably from some kind of wax product that was applied and embedded into the cracked up paint. I'd point it out to whoever does your paint job so they can prep & clean those areas real good.

Probably going to have Maaco do it (the one that did Charles' green GT did a nice job, except for the overspray), but I'm going to remove all the trim that I can, and tape up everything else.
Not really getting rainbows, but every time it rained, the windshield would seem to get oily, and the runoff from the wipers would be milky looking. Runoff from other parts of the body would be really streaky. It's getting better, but it's still noticeable.

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-16-2002 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Thomas, dont feel bad, I did painting for 20 some years before HVLP. It does take a great knack to get it right. My first jobs were either a mass of runs, or dry and rough. Now I do pretty good, most dealer jobs I can send out the way they are. One thing that helps eliminate the orange peel at low pressure is to use a little more reducer than it calls for. Makes it flow out a little smoother.

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thomas_l
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Report this Post01-16-2002 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thomas_lClick Here to visit thomas_l's HomePageClick Here to Email thomas_lSend a Private Message to thomas_lDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
One thing that helps eliminate the orange peel at low pressure is to use a little more reducer than it calls for. Makes it flow out a little smoother.

Funny you mention that. I thought it was going on a bit "thick" and chalked it up to my inexperience (first paint job not using spray bombs ) and maybe having the paint flow too high. I used NAPA acrylic enamel and reduced it 8:4:1 by the book (the 1 part is hardener). I guess with a little more reducer the paint might have layed on a lot smoother, of course using lighter coats to avoid runs I expect. Thanks for the tip!

All in all it turned out ok for a 1st try.

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thomas_l
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Report this Post01-16-2002 07:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thomas_lClick Here to visit thomas_l's HomePageClick Here to Email thomas_lSend a Private Message to thomas_lDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Probably going to have Maaco do it (the one that did Charles' green GT did a nice job, except for the overspray), but I'm going to remove all the trim that I can, and tape up everything else.

If you're going to do all that, you may as well paint it too. I know a guy that....

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lowCG
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Report this Post01-16-2002 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lowCGClick Here to Email lowCGSend a Private Message to lowCGDirect Link to This Post

So Roger,does PPG(or other big brands) reccomend the use of a primer to help the adhesion of new paint over an old paintjob,or do they say it's OK to just scuff and shoot?
I'm wondering because my car was just repainted by a shop and is chipping off(just down to the old paint)everywhere on the frontend just a week later,and the shop says they can't do anything about rock chips,which don't happen like this unless there's an adhesion problem somehow.The old paintjob looked great on that panel,considering the age,with only a few chips from the last three years since it was painted.

[This message has been edited by lowCG (edited 01-16-2002).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-16-2002 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by thomas_l:
If you're going to do all that, you may as well paint it too. I know a guy that....

I may look you up, if you are serious. Maybe I'll learn something, too.

------------------
Raydar

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thomas_l
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Report this Post01-17-2002 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thomas_lClick Here to visit thomas_l's HomePageClick Here to Email thomas_lSend a Private Message to thomas_lDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
I may look you up, if you are serious. Maybe I'll learn something, too.

Sure thing. Assuming you supply the paint, We'll need about $15 worth of Home Depot plastic to build a "booth" and you should probably provide a pizza dinner or something to prevent my wife from bitching about the house smelling like paint for a day You could tape it up except for the windows and drive it over some day that its a little warmer and definitely not raining and it can be finished at the end of the day and dry enough to unmask and take home the next day.

Let me know when you're ready.

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-17-2002 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by thomas_l:
...you should probably provide a pizza dinner or something to prevent my wife from bitching about the house smelling like paint for a day

You guys like Mexican food and Margaritas?
Or are we talking "delivered"?

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Raydar

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thomas_l
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Report this Post01-17-2002 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thomas_lClick Here to visit thomas_l's HomePageClick Here to Email thomas_lSend a Private Message to thomas_lDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
You guys like Mexican food and Margaritas?
Or are we talking "delivered"?


Depends on how late it gets done

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-17-2002 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

If you prime, use laquer Primer-Surfacer or a 2 part epoxy type. You dont need to primer the whole car. just any bare plastic, metal or bodywork. If you sand thru the topcoat anywhere too, like around chips or peeled off clearcoat. Anywhere the paint is good, just scuffing the gloss off is all you need. Primer wont make it stick any better, its just to fill slight imperfections or bond paint to bare surfaces. They do have a non sandable primer sealer that you can spray over entire car for the first coat, but I never use it except the gray when Im doing an all over silver paint job (and thats just to save materials).

------------------

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DJRice
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Report this Post01-17-2002 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DJRiceClick Here to Email DJRiceSend a Private Message to DJRiceDirect Link to This Post

I am starting work on a sunroof panel I plan to put on my 87. The paint is flaking off of the donor roof. Should I get some sort of Paint Stripper or just go straight to the sanding?

I think the existing paint job was probably a poorly done Maaco Job.

Any suggestions would be appreciated..

------------------
Dillon
Black '87 SE V6

"And this one time, on the Fiero Forum..."

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zeelebuba
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Report this Post01-17-2002 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zeelebubaClick Here to Email zeelebubaSend a Private Message to zeelebubaDirect Link to This Post

This is how we are doing my fiero. My buddy owns a body shop and has done a couple cars for me.

Knock down car with 120grit on orbital
apply plastic adhesion promoter
apply PPG DP40 1:1 with catalyst
Guide coat with black paint
Hand block with long board 400grit
Wet sand by hand small sander 800 grit
apply PPG DP40 1prt primer 1prt catylyst 4parts reduced to seal

paint&clearcoat

my car has original paint lots of rockchips and a few repairs, thats why we are cutting and using a high build primer/surfacer. Plus its flat like glass after hand blocking/guide coat.

No matter what you should always use a sealer before painting - Not so much for adhesion but for bleed through problems.

For the amour all thing use TSP - tri-sodium phosphate from hardware store. I used it clean my interior panels in my GTO before we painted them - 25 yrs of armour all and didn't get one fisheye

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-18-2002 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Just a little bit of experience, lol

------------------

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FieroBUZZ
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Report this Post01-18-2002 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroBUZZSend a Private Message to FieroBUZZDirect Link to This Post

Just to add another problem.....Black GT (will have 1 red door and nose). Should it be primed a single colour before paint? Probably change the colour to orange or red.
Gary

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-18-2002 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Not really unless the color you paint it is very transparent. Any basecoat color should be just fine. If in doubt, you can make the first coat an all over primer-sealer coat. You dont sand it, just follow directions and spray like its the first color coat. 1 quart with appropriate reducer is enough for a Fiero.

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lowCG
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Report this Post01-18-2002 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lowCGClick Here to Email lowCGSend a Private Message to lowCGDirect Link to This Post

Thanks Roger,I have painted a few(maybe six) cars before,but...not with any of the new technology,low VOC stuff,and that seems like it could be a whole new world.Also,doing something that's as meticulous as fine finishing a car for durability,you can never seem to remember to apply all the tricks to any one car you paint,unless you do it every day,like a religion.
The car has stopped chipping this past week,so who knows why it acted like brand new paint when it was just over a month old(?)
On an unrelated note,do you happen to know the part # for your front Bilsteins?
I have some from another vehicle on my car,and would consider doing a search for some of the correct ones if I had a good part #.
Thanks again.

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