I got the R134 kit from a buddy of mine. I have the sealed bag with 3 fittings, the covers (red, blue & black), i have the blue hose, 3 cans of R134, and 1 can of oil, but NO INSTRUCTIONS...

I have never done one of this conversions, nor worked on my A/C before. The car is an 84 and has never been charged. I need some detailed instructions if someone can help so I can try ta figure this out.... Thanx again!

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17 year old Fierophile
'86 Coupe 160k miles
'84 Mint Beauty 51k and original tires!

First you need a way to evacuate and vacuum down the system. That is the legal way to do it anyway... You can probably get a shop to do this for you for almost nothing if you want...

Or there is the old way where you just loosen the valve and let the stuff leave out slowly.. This is both illegal and dangerous.

After you get the old stuff out and the system vacuumed down, you just screw on the new fittings onto the old ones. The fittings will only fit on the proper place so you don't have to worry about that.. They are also self sealing so just tighten them down good and you are ready to go.

Now assemble your hose and valve. Just tightening the hose by hand is good enough.

Now snap the QuikLoc end of the hose onto the low pressure fitting. It is the one that is blue cap fits. It is on the evaporator (The thing that looks like a can). NEVER try to attach this to the high pressure side.

Shake the can of oil charge up real good. Now screw the oil charge can onto the other end of the valve. Make sure you have the valve open so the can will screw on all the way. Now screw the valve handle all the way in to puncture the top of the can. Then start to open it again. Open it all the way. You should hear the stuff start going into your system. Hold the can upside down and shake it until it is empty.

Now here people do different things. Some people close the valve slightly and just let some leak out while they put a new can on. Personally, I close the valve and remove the end of the hose from the evaporator. You don't lose any that way.

When you start to remove each empty can from the valve assembly, do it slow and at arm's length. They usually have a small amount of gas still in them and will hiss. You don't want to breathe this...

Next you repeat the above procedure. Attach the hose to the low pressure side, shake up and screw on one of the cans of freon. You can just let the can rest upside down while the freon goes into the car. Let about half of the can go in and then start your car and turn the a/c on max. You should see your compressor start to kick on and off.

Do the same thing with the other two cans and then put the respective caps on the valves and you are done.

Nothing to it.. the best thing for me is that I can use the evacuator at my buddies shop to get the old stuff out and vacuum down my system.

Good luck to all who are doing it...

Oh yeah.. one quick thing.. you only need two of the fittings. Just throw the extra one away...

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 06-15-2001).]

As above but I recommend also trying to drain as much of the old oil out first. I would suggest removing the high and low pressure switches from the back of the compressor to allow any oil in there to drain out.

Also, forget about the "legal" BS about having a shop evacuate the system. This would only be relevant if your system still had any R-12 in it. Shops are required to evacuate any freon from the system when working on it to keep it out of the ozone layer. If you are wanting to do an R-134 conversion, my guess is that your current AC system is not working (for whatever reason) and has no R-12 remaining. It leaked out long ago.

Get a vaccum pump ($10 from Harbor Freight) and borrow someone's air compressor. The only thing you really really need to evacuate is any moisture in the system. And most people just skip this step anyway.

Thanx for all your help!! Just a few questions... 1) Do I have to do anything with the Thing mounted to the firewall thats just below the battery?

2) I changed the fittings on the can thing in the front compartment and the one on the hose running along the topleft side of the engine compartment, were these the right two??

3)I disconnected the hoses that plug into the can upfront and no air came out, does this mean its empty?? 4)Also, is there something else I have to do to drain the oil or is that gone too??

Thanks again, you guyz are awesome!

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17 year old Fierophile
'86 Coupe 160k miles
'84 Mint Beauty 51k and original tires!

I agree about the 'legal BS', Tom.. I just didn't want anyone jumping me about killing our world! heheh. Figured I better at least mention it.

And now, Jncomutt...

No, you don't have to do anything with the thing below the battery...

Yes, those were the correct two fittings. On later years, both fittings are in the front compartment.

You didn't actually have to disconnect the hoses from the 'can' up front, but since you did you might want to replace the o-rings or at least make sure you didn't pinch them putting the hoses back on...

And to drain ALL the oil out, you would have to get under the car and drain it from the compressor. This is a judgement call. Personally, I don't do it. But when doing a job, doing it all the way is never a bad thing so if you want to, go for it. As above, I recommend replacing o-rings anywhere you open anything...

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

Songman, your a saint! haha...
thanks for everything!!

I'd be lost here without that...

Did you start the car and turn the a/c on max? Did the compressor kick on and off?

Your system was empty if you emptied it. You should have had enough oil left in the system that the wrong order wouldn't matter...

Tell me about these questions above and we'll try to figure it out...

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

If you haven't run the system yet, you are not going to get anymore into the system. Without the AC running, you are only going to get about 2 cans into the system before it pressurizes and no more will go in. You have to turn the AC on so the compressor operates and the low side develops a vaccum. Then the can of oil and third can of r-134 will be sucked into the system.

I'm glad you guys aren't working on my car.

Putting in all 3 cans, plus the oil can which also contains refrigerant, will probably over charge the system.... You only run 80-85% of the R134 (by weight) that the system used in R12. Over charging always was a good way to fry the comrpressor or blow something apart. Over charging R134, which runs higher head pressure to start with, is even more so.

The original R12 charge is listed on a label in the front compartment. In Fiero, usually located on the black AC housing.

As for the "legal BS," You skip that if you want to. When you have problems caused by air/moisture/residual R12 don't whine about it. Just because pressure is too low to close the LP switch doesn't mean the stuff is gone. If there is no pressure at all you can still have R12, or worse air and water, in the system.

I hate these kits. They make one person after the next think they are AC wizards. Public access to R12 is a large part of why we have the CFC problem we have today. "My system just need topping off... I'll just shove in another can of Freon. So what if it's the fifth time this year..." It's only a matter of time before they find some enviromental problem caused by the replacements. Freon was way more inert than R134 and look at the mess it's caused.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-16-2001).]

Ogre, I never disagree with you because I respect your work so much.. but according to the numbers listed on the car, 3 cans plus oil is exactly what is called for for the Fiero. I checked this and had it double checked by two guys at the garage and they do a/c work everyday.

As I said, I have done 6 of my cars in the last year and a half and no problems at all. I used to work for that very garage and those kits that you hate are all they use. I did recommend to vacuum the system down and have done so to all of mine.

I knew the environment would eventually come up. If people are really worried about the environment, why is the government still making us run catalytic convertors on our cars. They are one of the biggest problems we've got!

And I do take a little bit of exception to the comment that those kits make everyone think he is a wizard. What I gave for instructions is the correct procedure for doing th job. Am I certified? No... But I was trained by people who are... I simply answered a question just like you do so often... trying to be helpful..

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 06-17-2001).]

Well, I'm going to give it another try. On Monday I'm going to have the system professionally evacuated and am starting from square 1.

Also, I did have the A/C on Max. I'm not sure how to tell whether or not the compressor is kicking on and off or not, however. When I press the button for max A/C, the RPMS jump up about 300 and the radiator fan kicks on. Not sure if that means anything, but thats what I notice it doing.

You can tell if the compressor kicks on and off by removing the cover over the battery and looking down at the compressor. When it kicks on, the outside portion of it will lock and start turning...

The engine revving up is another system altogether that is made to compensate for the drag put on the engine by the compressor. If the compressor is not kicking on, the rest of the stuff will not go in..

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

Damn.... Thanks, I'm going to have to look in the morning. If its not coming on and off does that mean its time for the replacement of the compressor??

Not necessarily.. in the case of my Indy it meant that the dash control box was bad.. There are quite a few things it could be. A test light and a wiring diagram help, but it can still be tough to find..

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

Gotta agree with Ogre...three cans of R134 and the oil charge (which contains 3 ounces of R134) is way too much.

Depending on the system, I've seen recommendations of anywhere from 70% to 85% of the R12 charge as being appropriate for an R134 conversion.

When I did mine, I used two 12 ounce cans and the oil charge for a total of 27 ounces of R134, which is about 70% of the normal R12 charge. What some need to remember is that if the old mineral oil is not drained out, it will reduce the system capacity by whatever the volume of the old oil is.

There are pros and cons of draining the old oil out, and some claim it's not necessary provided the proper R134 lubricant is used.

But any work on the A/C system on a Fiero sucks, especially if the damm thing breaks when it's 95 degrees, so the best thing to do is do it right and do it early.

The instructions that the Fiero Warehouse provides or that are in Ogre's cave are the way to go.

I may only be at 70%, but I'm cool, baby.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. I just know what was printed on the tag and what has worked in my cars without a hitch...

Of course, my system was totally vaccumed down and starting from scratch. The guage on the high pressure side was showing between 150 and 180. Well within the limits of the system.

I was more affected by the sarcasm than the opinion.

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 06-17-2001).]

Sorry to be crabby above. These kits come with poor or no instructions and are installed baddly more often than not. Over charging the system is dangerous as well is just bad.

The other big problem I have with these kits... When they are done wrong, the user risks detroying increasingly dificult to replace parts.

Ok, I went out and pysically checked my lable to make sure....

OE R12 charge is 1.13KG or 2.50LB, effectively 40oz, on my 87SC.

3 cans of R134 is 36oz plus the oil cans 3 oz is 39oz or well above recomended percentage of charge. (97%+)

As pointed out above, left over mineral oil reduces system capacity. By about 6oz if the full amount is pressent. Problem is you never know how much old oil is present. That's why charging by both pressure and weight is important. You want to charge in say 60-70% by weight then charge by pressure but never charge more than 85-90% of the R12.

As I said above, I'm reworking my page. I'll be covering the conversion in much more detail. I'll cover both the interwhatsis kit and the way I prefer to do it which is the castrol kit with certain parts repalced. (castrol kit is oil and Orings.)

Figuring on a 40oz R12 charge, and charging to a clean system....

70% = 28oz R134
75% = 30oz
80% = 32oz
85% = 34oz
90% = 36oz

27oz listed above would be below a 70% charge on a clean system, but depending on how much left over mineral oil is present it could end up being a 70-75% charge or more. If you have all 6oz of mineral oil, then add the 6-8oz R134 oil charge, you have 32-34oz of refrigerant capacity left. In that case 27oz is 80% of the remaining R12 capacity.

Now do you see why these kits make me nuts? There's no sure way to know how much old oil is in there. Plus the old ACC/Dryer is not compatible with R134.

Oh, I would much rather stay with R12 since it cools so much better to start with.. but some say it will go up to close to $90 per can this year. Even though I have access to get it, I'm not spending that kind of money for it...

I agree with your numbers and your thinking, Ogre.. But we both know that factory specs are generally underrated. I am only going from several years experience and good performance on cars that I have done, mine as well as others.

This is kinda like changing your timing a little for better performance even thought the factory says it should be at a certain mark.

The lesson for everyone here is... well, I don't know what it is. It is your car, do whatever you want. Put in your oil and two cans of R134 and see how it cools.... Then decide if you want the other one... Maybe get the $5 can of maximizer instead.

In any case, I am sure enjoying my cool new ride in this hot weather...

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

boy i'm glad i go to tijuana to charge my system,they sell R12 for 1.50 a can.
AL
84Indy 4 speed
86gt
89gta

[This message has been edited by AL (edited 06-18-2001).]

When are you going back? I'll get you to pick me up about a truck load and I'll retire next year! hehe

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Tennessee Fiero Owners