Hey, while searching eBay, I saw that there's a 2.8 to 3.1L stroker kit. Are these worth it? What performace increase is there? 0-60? 1/4 mile? What in the increase in HP and torque? This is just for the 3.1 stroker kit, no other mods as of yet. Thanks a lot!

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Fuzz busters are for those who are worried about being caught.

By the way, the link is at: http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=578474971&r=0&t=0 It also shows what the kit comes with. Thanks again!

Let me know what camshaft you are going to use, what transmission you have and the axle ratio if its an automatic, and any other modifications you plan to do and I will give you expected horsepower and performance figures.

Keep in mind you will probably have to have that reciprocating assembly balanced after you purchase it unless ARI has already done it. That will run you another $250.

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You can buy the same kit off their web site for another $0.01.

I am buying one of these kits in a few days.
The flywheel needs to be balanced, which costs 100 bucks or there are instructions to balance your flywheel.
These folks have been extremely helpful, and very knowledgeable.

You can also get a short or longblock for them which is a 2.8 block bored and stroked to a 3.4

You can buy the stroker kit from Pisa.
Pisa's kit includes: hyper-tech pistons,
crank, flywheel/flexplate, bearings,t-chain,
adj. fuel reg.,moly rings,and detailed inst.
F.O.C.O.A. also offers the kit with some
other things included but their cam is stock
so I wouldn't use it.
Pisa: www.cybercars.com
F.O.C.O.A.: (714)-917-2007

As for power; don't expect to much unless
you make a few changes besides the kit.
BTW a 2.8 can't be bored and stroked to a 3.4
Even though it's a 60 deg. V6 a 3.4 is a different block with a beefier construction.

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Dave Gunsul
N.I.F.E. member
86 GT modified
85 SE daily driver

Thanks for all the replies. I think I will wait until Greg gets his kit installed; I want to see the difference. As far as the dyno numbers, 88formula, I have to idea what the numbers are you are referring to. I know what they mean, just not what they are. Get it?? I have an auto; I know that. On the PISA website, it said that the kit ups the HP output to 165 instead of 140. This isn't too good, but that's what a 3.4 pushrod swap is. I could do a few "smaller" mods and achieve 165 HP. Keep the opinions comin'! Thanks!

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Fuzz busters are for those who are worried about being caught.

quote Originally posted by Dave Gunsul: BTW a 2.8 can't be bored and stroked to a 3.4 Even though it's a 60 deg. V6 a 3.4 is a different block with a beefier construction.

I am just reporting what the above company is advertising... They are marketing it! http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/gm28stroker.html

This same engine and company came up on the Fiero list. They're either selling a 3.4 or
a 3.2 and just telling everyone that it's a 3.4.
A 2.8 has a max bore of: 3.582
The 3.4 has a: 3.62 bore.

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Dave Gunsul
N.I.F.E. member
86 GT modified
85 SE daily driver

I bought the "3.4 Stroker engine" Its a 2.8 block bored and stroked to a 3.4. The HP and Torque is a big improvement over the 2.8 I dont have any dyno Numbers but I plan to put the car on the dyno in the next few weeks and ill post them. Correct me if im wrong, but the bore doesnt have to be the same as the 3.4 because the motor is stroked so even though the bore diameter is smaller in the 3.4 stroker motor the longer stroke of the crankshaft will make up the displacement.

If you are not overly increasing your bore, and the 3.4 uses the same crank as a 3.1... HTF are you getting a 3.4 out of a 2.8 block? I understand how some of these guys claim to have a 3.2(3.1 crank w overbore pistons) but a 3.4 without a 3.4 block? HMMMM sounds like very thin cylender walls or somebody is blowing smoke up me again.....Just an opinion...

cubic inch displacement (or metric liters) is figured by the width of the piston and the amount of travel (the pistons stroke). you can increase the displacement without even changing the bore size by increaseing the engines stroke. the longer the stroke the more torque the engine has (low end power) however you sacrifice high RPM's. The engine will not rev. as high. Also you can "destroke" a motor it will hurt your low end power but it will have more HP at higher RPM's and the motor will rev higher(not a good idea on a v6). My point is that you dont have to "overbore" a 2.8 block to gain displacement just increase the pistons stroke.

[This message has been edited by voyagerspe (edited 04-21-2001).]

quote Originally posted by fropuff: On the PISA website, it said that the kit ups the HP output to 165 instead of 140. This isn't too good, but that's what a 3.4 pushrod swap is. I could do a few "smaller" mods and achieve 165 HP.

You could do smaller mods to a 2.8 and acheive 165 hp, but think about it. If you stroked the motor, and THEN did those same mods, you'd be at a good bit more than 165hp.

165hp is good for about half a second off your quarter mile, but if you're like most people, you're going to keep tweaking your motor for a long time, squeezing every horse you can out of it. Stroke it first. You get the bottom and top end put together right, and you can do all kinds of outside work without having the motor in and out of the car a dozen times.

My current motor idea (after I get the suspension and brake work done) is to stroke my 2.8 to 3.1 (making sure everything is turbo compatible), polish up the motor with good electrical, fuel delivery, etc and then bolt the hairdryer on. It wouldn't work the other way around, the turbo would turn my 108k mile 2.8 into Kibbles and Bits.

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85 GT (to be modified...)

Spektyr:

If you think you can stroke (3.1 crank) your motor and put it back together, drive it some till you have enough money to bolt on the hairdryer, you are dead wrong. When you go to add that blower without putting in lower compression pistons your engine might make it out of the driveway! You gotta tear down that engine again and put in lower compression flat top pistons. If you put in lower compression pistons when you put in the 3.1 crank and don't add the blower right way, you'll be lusky to start her as compression will only be about 6:1, thus, not enough power to drive up a small incline.
When you tear it down, build it up right the first time to whatever. BTW, PISA's kit is the best way to go. 165HP is plenty, plus no other mods to external components, sensors, injectors, fuel pressure regulating is necessary. And you'll notice the difference.

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85GT (daily driver 120,000 miles)
88GT (highly modified sunday driver)

quote Originally posted by JR: If you think you can stroke (3.1 crank) your motor and put it back together, drive it some till you have enough money to bolt on the hairdryer, you are dead wrong.

Actually, Spektyr is right, provided he isn't planning on running an insane amount of boost. A stock compression ratio 2.8L or 3.1L is perfectly capable of running 6-9 lbs. of boost without running into any problems provided that the engine has been built properly.

If this wasn't the case, there would be a lot of unhappy Design One turbo (http://www.designonesystems.com/) customers running around as their turbo kit is designed to bolt onto a stock compression engine.

Ken S.

Kslish:

I would think then, why not just add NOX.
Would be a lot cheaper, minus the plumbing and exhaust rerouting, probably bigger injectors and all the other headaches. I'm sure the turbo would be a satisfying challenge to install once done and ironed out, but I think NOX would give more HP for when you want it. With all the failsafe controls in modern NOX systems, the motor would be less stressed. No?

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85GT (daily driver 120,000 miles)
88GT (highly modified sunday driver)

OK I need to take my block to a machine shop and get the cylinders bored to fit the new pistons, get the camshaft bearings installed, and I think thats about it...

I am assuming the block will be dunked and cleaned before any machining takes place.

The block currently has not been overbored and I am putting in 040 over pistons

What would be the price ranges I should expect to have this done?

I would still suggest you keep comp. at 8.5:1
or lower. Most 3.1's use the 9.0-9.5:1 comp.
This is to much and will cause probs unless
you use 5 psi boost which won't be worth the
cost of the turbo.
Most Fiero turbos are at 9-10 psi boost.

About the 3.4: AGAIN the MAX bore (which means no more borable material left)of the
2.8 is: 91mm or 3.582 No more!
The 3.4 has a 3.62 it also uses the 3.1 crank
which is a 3.31 stroke! It's a dfferent block
with more material and webbing.
For reference, the stock 2.8 crank has a 2.99
stroke.

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Dave Gunsul
N.I.F.E. member
86 GT modified
85 SE daily driver

My intention is what kslish said, but I figure on saving up the money to buy the stroker kit (everything at once) and get the block machined at the same time. That way while I'm busy putting it together, taking my time to make sure I do it PERFECTLY, I'll be pretty close to saving up the moola for the turbo. (The plan is to work a LOT of overtime, sleep, eat, and build the motor.) That way the motor goes in the car in it's final form... a screaming banshee. It also allows me to tailor the motor to run with the turbo very specifically.

I do realize that popping a turbo on a 10:1 ratio motor is about as smart as upgrading your pistons one at a time. My plan is to have a turbo with 10lbs boost at the most. Probably more like 8-9.

And there's a big, BIG advantage of turbos over NOS. Turbos are ALWAYS full. NOS tanks are not. If I do a Fiero Nut Road trip, having a turbo is much more fun. I don't have to worry about burning up my NOS playing with the other hot rods. As long as I take care of the turbo, it provides free, non-tank-dependant HP, and I never have to pull into a town and try to explain to the locals why I want to buy some NOS.

"No, I'm a dentist, really..."

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85 GT (to be modified...)
--Um, no the paint isn't oxidized, that's the ultra-rare Whirlpool White textured finish... yeah.
89 Lincoln Town Car (has Fiero Envy)
--Hey! Can I have an anti-sway bar too?

I've had the pleasure/pain of having both a PISA stroker and a 3.4...

My PISA stroker was my first. It was bored .060" over so it was like a 3.275 Liter engine (but who's counting)...

I got it with a cam/lifter package from Associated Auto (who originated the stoker kit for PISA). Joe Wynman said this cam had a .434/.454 in/ex lift. This is going back like 3 or 4 years.

This car was very torquey even at 1500rpms and happily revved to 5500 shift points but HP didn't kick in until rpms >= 3000. Needed 90 octane or better.

That lasted me 51k miles before my crank bearings started to go bad due to the fact that my idiot mechanic gave me a couple of oil changed using the 47 oil filter and not the 52.

Next came the GROOMS reman-ed 3.4L installed by the Fiero Factory.
This engine ran great on 87 octane, was fairly torquey and used the CRANE 2030 COMPUCAM. .423/.423 lift. Power cam in at just over 2500rpms but was only good to 4800. I dynoed it at about 150hp at the wheels. Not bad. However this engine lasted me about 25k miles and I didn't even abuse it as much as the previous engine.

Both engines had the same ported heads and intake w/ sprint F1 headers and hollow cat and IRM dual exhaust and a K&N airfilter.

Comments/observations:

The cam controls your performance profile, don't settle for that Crane 2030 cam, get the next one up with the .427/.45? lift. (I think that's also GM's performance cam) you'll be much happier.

Despite the cam and extra cu's of the 3.4 and HEAVIER flywheel, the higher-lift cam of the stroker gave me plenty of bottom end power so get a LIGHT (maybe aluminum) and balanced flywheel. Don't worry about bottom end power loss, you'll have it and top end too.

It seems that Grooms 3.4's have low compression versus what you get with the stroker kits. This is personal preferrance but it does affect overall HP and fuel economy. I think 9.2 is a nice compromise for cast iron heads. the stroker was like 9.4 and the 3.4 had to be <= 9.0... Pick your pistons wisely.

I've gone through 4 engines. The first 2.8 failed do to the infamous "spun bearing". The 3.1 crank fixes that issue I think. After that, it's been bad bearings, thrown rod and broken piston wrist-pin. So go with the modded v8 rods and bearings and make sure you use the right oil filter.

Finally, I think that due to the larger bore of the 3.4+, I find it more prone to "piston wobble" as I like to call it. The weak link on these engines is where the piston and rod meet. I've gone through 2 3.4's...a used one from a camaro with 17k miles on it that didn't last me 100 miles in my fiero, then the Grooms engine that only went 25k miles. I think the smaller bore of the stoker kits makes for a more stable piston and allows for more performance potential and longevity. With a 91mm piston (3.582") and a 3.1 crank, you have 3.3L and alot more durability. I abused my stoker badly despite the fact that it never ran quite right (bad TPS and IAC wires) and it lasted a good 50k where as the 3.4 ran smoothe and wasn't abused too much but only lasted 24+k miles...

Just my opions here based on personal experience.

So noone else has anything to add to my previous experiences?

The 3.4-liter engine has a 3.620 bore and the 3.1liter engine has a 3.5 inch bore. That's only .120" difference or about 1/8 of an inch.

The Iron Duke has a 4 inch bore. The ultra reliable small block Chevy has a 4 inch bore. The even more reliable 3800 engine has a 3.8 inch bore. What makes the difference is the piston to cylinder wall clearance and the type and quality of piston you use and not how big the piston diameter is.

Remanufactured engines are cheap junk and are not intended for performance use.

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lou_dias:

Couldn't agree with you more!! Stroking and small bore increase along with oil system mods is the way to go.

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85GT (daily driver 120,000 miles)
88GT (highly modified sunday driver)

88Formula,
It's not the actual bore size I'm complaining about, it's that the rods are skinny and intentionally designed for a small bore piston and when you bump up the hp, a bigger bore held by a skinny rod is not a good thing. The weak link is at the wrist pin. A thicker rod and wrist pin will hold a piston in place better. that's the weak link in an otherwise "bullet-proof" engine.
GM made the 60 degree block for it's small economy cars. The 90 degree 3.8 is basically a 5.0 design with 2 cylinders chopped off. If they made a new 60 degree block but made it to 3.8 specs, think of the potential... Those 3.8 turbo GN blocks, cranks, rods, and pistons are pushing 650hp and more at the strip...

Thanks a lot for the replies guys. I made up my mind to put off increasing the performance of the Fiero for now, and rather build up a quicker-than-sh*t winter vehicle. I'm thinking of either an astro, blazer, or s-10, with either a 350 vortec or a 4.3L turbo charged engine from a GMC Typhoon/Syclone. What do you think? You guys can keep discussing the 3.1 stroker thing if you want. I don't mind. Thanks again!

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Fuzz busters are for those who are worried about being caught.

I misunderstood you, sorry.

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