I am planning to paint my 86 GT with a Dupont Imron Paint in a Porsche Bahama Yellow color.

Is Imeon good and is it flexible enough for the Fiero panels? Should a flex agent be used?

What type of primer can I use. Is anything avaiable from a spray can?

Is there a high gloss?

I am used to it on boat applications but not so sure about the flexible Fiero.

Any suggestions and comments are welcome.

John

86 GT
5 weeks to go

Imron would be my first choice,but I'd want to be real sure that the painter knows how to paint to the level of gloss/orange peel that you desire;this paint is no fun to sand.
I have some spray primer for the urethane panels(nose,tail)that I haven't tried yet,but my autobody friends tell me that all this should work out fine.

Yes Imron is good. It has high gloss and durability and should be flexible enough without any special flex additives. However, I personally do not like to use it. It is tough to spray, runs are really hard to sand and buff out and dry spray is next to impossible to buff out too. I dont know what happened, but my 88 GT was painted with Imron and it looks like crap. It has no gloss, has pin holes all in it and no matter how much I sand and buff, it just won't shine. It looks like he used too much reducer in it because it is covered in runs. When I repaint it, I will use Omni base coat/clear coat. Less expensive, easier to use and really looks good without buffing.

Imron is one of the toughest paints ever invented. Used with the correct primer it will adhere to anything. It must ONLY be used by an expert. Newbee painters need not apply. You shoot this stuff wrong and you have a major pile of crap.

Imron doesn't like to be built up beyond a certain tickness in a certain amount of time. ((No I don't know what the coat spacing is anymore.))

IF you get a run in Imron you will be dealing with it for about a week. It'll be at least that long before you can sand it without a horrid mess.

If you mix Imron wrong it will either never set, or set in the spray gun. If it sets in the gun throw it away and buy another.

Sounds like Imron is for experts only. What are the recommendations for Base/Clear Coats?

Does Dupont have a product for this. My painter likes to use Dupont products.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John

Yes, DuPont makes an excellant BC/CC system. Their ChromaBase and associated products are easy to use and give great finishes. They are just a little bit expensive compared to other similiar paints. I would make sure to use the "high solids" clear. Different companies have different names for it. Your paint guy will know what I mean. It is a high build clear, requiring only two coats to achieve full film thickness, instead of three for standard clears. You use less materials, and it offsets the costs of using the more expensive clear. BTW- I only used about 1.5 quarts of base coat (before thinning) and 2 quarts of high build clear (when mixed makes about 2.5 quarts) Dont let them charge you for a gallon of base coat or a gallon of clear!

I only spray Imron. But I usually paint airplanes.

Tom,do you know where the green,rubbery primer,that is often used on airplanes can be purchased non-commercially?
Or at least what it's called,so I can try and find it.

Its called Zinc Chromate. Most paint supply places have it. It also comes in rattle cans. I use imron Vari-prime. It is awesome

I talked with someone that had imron on his car and he was't happy because he thought that he got more stone chips than with reg paint. Who knows?

I hate to sound stupid or ignorant but what is this Imron paint and the DuPont BC/CC system. What is so special about this stuff? Any pictures of cars that have used the stuff?

jhogans,

No prob. Basic difference: Imron sucks; BC/CC is phenominally better. Imron is a single stage paint, meaning it's like the "gloss" colors that you can buy in rattle cans. shiny color in one pot.

BC/CC stands for base coat/clear coat, and DuPont does not make the only one. With this paint, you spray down a layer of color and then a layer of clear on top of it. It allows for a great deal of "color sanding" (which should be called "clear sanding") for a glasslike finish.

I can't understand why anyone would want to use single stage paint instead of bc/cc. To me, it's like using a telegraph instead of a telephone.

Unless you're painting a lawn mower, or a park bench or something.......

If Imron sucks so badly why is it used on 20 million dollar aiplanes. Yes I said $20 mill.

Imron is the ultimate in non-maintanence paint. I have seen firetrucks and airplanes painted with it over 10 years ago that have NEVER been waxed or polished and they still look great. Imron is a single stage polyurethane enamal, the clear coat on the BC/CC paints are also polyurethane.

Imron only "sucks" when it's not put on right. Imron is not tolerant of people who don't really know how to paint. We used to use it on the hull of boats and motor cycle frames with both excelent durability and gloss.

A word about Zinc Chromate..... You may be able to get it over the counter, but you should understand that this primer is extremely toxic. I believe it is also listed as hazardous by the EPA.

Imron is also toxic and hazardous and all that other fun stuff. What ever you paint with wear a quality resperator. I use a fresh air system.

Johnmac I am getting my INDY done bc/cc dupont chromabase the ground effects are done,and you can count your nose hairs in the finish! and there not wet sanded or buffed yet
I had to tell my painter to stop doing such a good job with the prep because i don't want it to look better than my 86 GT with 50,000 miles on it! :~)
Do it with the dupont system, your painter told you he likes useing it so there is your answer!
I have painted with it and love the gloss, It is a bit more expensive,
but the finish and durability is awesome.
I had a truck with a custom paint job done to it and it got tagged by a bunch of gang kids, sprayed the whole thing with black red and siver paint, took it to the shop after the insurance payed for a new paint job, and wet sanded and buffed it all off, cost me 12 hours of my time, a few bloody fingers, and $12.00 for materals If you have other question feel free to contact me, I can send you pic's if we ever get it sprayed this week lol
FD

fierodave,

how much is your paint job costing you?

I knew i'd get some responses, hehe....

Perhaps i should clarify. In painting a car, particularly a special interest car, i believe that BC/CC paint is far superior to imron in pursuit of a high-shine finish, with no trash or orange peel.

Sure you can get a great finish with imron, if you're good enough. But why do it the hard way, just because you can?

Sure, they use Imron on $20million airplanes, boats and even Peterbilt trucks. Why? IT'S PRODUCTION PAINT. Pretend for a minute that you're a manufacturing engineer. Should you choose a paint that you have to basically shoot twice (i.e., base/clear) or just once (i.e., imron). Duh.

Look close at a peterbilt or a 737. Orange peel up the wazoo. I'd rather have a mirrorlike 5 year paint job than a 10 year school bus paint job anyday.

actually very little production work is done in Imron. Most automotive production paint is waterbase or low VOC. The EPA pushed out high solvent paints in the early 80's in many types of paint operations. In fact many autobody shops using Imron and Zinc Chromate regularly violate EPA regulations by venting the fumes directly into the outside air and/or sweeping spray dust into the trash.

2 step BC/CC is actually used quite often in production. GM, Chrysler and Ford have all used it, and still do. Factory Fiero paint was applied in this mannor. Single stage paints have faded from use because in many cases diferant pannels are painted with diferant paint. Some plastic pannels are not painted at all. The Clear Coat is shot on to give the assembled car a uniform gloss. The vehicle may not even be shot all at one time. In some cases prefinished plastic pannels won't even be installed untill after the metal has been shot and clear coated.

BC/CC products may apply to higher initial gloss, but most brands have problems of their own. They may seam easier to apply but actually they are often quite dificult to get good durability out of. (Coat spacing is important for these systems as it it for Imron. They are easier to shoot for other reasons. Like they are not usually epoxy style paints and are less toxic.)A common problem of BC/CC systems has been a tendancy to delaminate the CC. This is what causes the dandruff effect on Fiero paint. Black and Silver Fieros seem to get it the worst. Once the CC fails the base looks like hell in short order. Newer CC's are better but the jury is still out on how much.

Zinc-Chromate primer dries hard,used on structure,some components,but the stuff I'm wondering about is a translucent,dark green,and is used on the skin of the airplane for chip resistance.
Don't make me call my old job and ask them!lol

not sure. zinc chromate I've seen is always bright day glow green. could be a dirivative or something else completely what your describing.

This is from the originator of this topic.

It appears the consensus is a trip down to Sears for a gallon of that latex paint and the roller --- Hah Hah!

Thanks for the tremendous response and I will be going with a Dupont BC/CC. Should a flex additive be added also?

Thanks FieroDave Again - do you have any photos of your latest project?

To all you Fiero enthusias - thanks again, you are swell bunch of car nuts!

I am hoping to be on the road with my restored 86GT within 4 weeks.

Thanks,

John MacHaffie

No flex additive should be needed. The urethane is pretty flexible and should hold up fine as long as you dont hit anything, or anything hit you.

I'm looking at and may possibly buy a 1971 GMC truck that was restored seven years ago and was painted with Imron. It still looks GREAT! If done right, it's a fine paint. I've seen plenty of clear coat paint jobs that fail in less time than that. On the other hand, I've seen lots of show winning cars with BC/CC paint jobs too. It's a matter of preference. I'd prefer the low maintenance paint myself, I've got too many other things to do than to wax my car every week.

I guess to POLLOCK nothing is good enough. Im done with this

I hope to find a good painter when the time comes to paint my car,and get that slight orange peel effect that usually comes on expensive cars,and that will gradually get smoother with age/polishing.
Actually I'll probably get my uncle to help me,or do it myself;the last time we painted six cars in a weekend,with some bodywork too,they all turned out great including my Lancia,which was done in Redspot clear over a satin Sherwin Williams(Polane T)black.
The Alfa GTV from that weekend sold for $5K,also black,but with different(cheaper)paint.

[This message has been edited by lowCG (edited 02-11-2000).]

LowCG, Neoprene paint. It cures to a synthetic rubber, thick and cushiony, it keeps a fair gloss and sticks to well prepped surfaces. Don't know about certified for aircraft.

Thanks,was thinking about how to try and keep the chips away,especially on the lower panels,I'll check it out.