How to make rear coil-overs using factory struts, with pics.
Topic started by: fierohoho, Date: 02-11-2004 03:17 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum9/HTML/000018.html


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #1, 02-11-2004 03:17 PM
      What I offer here is for Fiero owners who want to do the work themselves to try and keep the costs down.

I welcome any comments from others to help cover any mistakes I make or to offer an easier or cheaper way for this to be done.
I will start with the assumption that you allready have the struts removed from the car.

The first pic shows the adjusters you will need, they are 5" aluminium and can usually be found used on Ebay for $? or new at this link: www.rpmnet.com for about $47.00 each, they are called C-O Hardware Kit-AFCO Aluminium Shock w/5" sleeve, part number 20126.

I purchased mine at a racing swap meet for $25.00.

The next pic shows a set of 12" coil springs with a 2 5/8" ID, you'll need a pair with about a 250Lb spring rate.

I got mine used for $30.00 at the swap meet, they can also be found used on Ebay for $? or new at this link: www.rpm.net.com for about $67.00 each, they are called AFCOIL-12" Coil-Over 250Lb Rate 2 5/8" ID.

Now to start...The next pic shows a factory strut from a 85GT, it has clamps on it from the previous owners lowering attempt.

This worked to my advantage as I didn't have to compress the spring or have it done by someone else so it could be removed safely.

CAUTION!!! Don't remove the spring youself if you don't know what you're doing, it's under tension and you could get HURT/KILLED. Take it to a service shop and have them do it.

You'll notice I had put the louver bracket and retainers back on it after I removed it from the car so I wouldn't misplace them.

Remove the items in the next pic, items "A" are what you see on top of the strut tower, item "B" is on the underside of the tower.

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 02-11-2004).]

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #2, 02-11-2004 03:33 PM
      At this point you now have the spring removed by someone else unless you had the correct equipment/skills to do it yourself.

I tried using an impact with a 21mm socket to remove the top nut that holds the upper retainer plate to the strut shaft, I then had to use a 21mm wrench on the nut and a 10mm wrench on the shaft to remove the nut as the shaft spun with the impact.

The next pic shows the coil retainer "A" and upper spring perch "B" along with 2 washers and the 21mm nut.

The small bushing on the right is actually the center of the dust boot, it had seperated from the boot.

The next pic shows the spring, rubber cushion from the upper spring perch and the dust boot, all of which are no longer needed.

The next pic shows the bare strut.

You need to remove the lower spring perch from the tube and grind the top of the strut to the same diameter as the tube.

Just Dremel, file or grind the weld away to remove the perch, try not to put too much heat into the tube just to be safe and don't grind a hole through the side of the tube.


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #3, 02-11-2004 03:42 PM
      This pic shows the finished strut.

The next 2 pics show you've got it right when the adjuster slides over the strut and seats at the bottom.

Now slide the coil spring on, see next pic.


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #4, 02-11-2004 03:54 PM
      In the next pic you can see one of the washers I put back on the strut shaft, in hind sight you can probably leave it off though.

The next pic shows I've put the upper spring perch over the strut, the hole isn't big enough to put it on over the bottom later, you could also trim this piece down a little if you want.

Now you need to make a bushing for the top of the coil spring so there is no metal-to-metal contact with the retainer plate.

You could go with a piece of garden hose split lengthwise and wrapped around the top of the coil.

I made a bushing using some flat farm belt material I had.

I traced a 4" diameter circle using a compass, see next pic.

Then I cut the circle out with a single edge razor blade, see next pic.


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #5, 02-11-2004 03:59 PM
      The next pic shows how I cut out the center, I used a 2 1/8" hole saw in the drill press.


Here's a pic of the finished bushings.


The next pic is a side view of the spring retainer plate.

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 03-12-2007).]

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #6, 02-11-2004 04:05 PM
      The next 3 pics show where to put the bushing and placing it on the strut shaft.


Now it's time to put the washer and nut on the shaft, see next pic, and tighten them down.

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 02-11-2004).]

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #7, 02-11-2004 04:11 PM
      The next 3 pics show the spring perch in position and the top pieces in place for safe keeping until install.


The next pic is an underside view of the assembled strut.


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #8, 02-11-2004 04:16 PM
      The last pic shows my completed coil-over struts.


That's it in a nutshell, buying new parts and using the old struts you'll have about $228.00 into this project.

A little searching for used stuff can really knock the price down as I have about $55.00 or so into this project.

NOTE: See page 2 of this thread for additional info I added to deal with the metal-to-metal potential when bottoming out on rough roads.

Special thanks to Bruce L. who really did all the work here.

Wrench on dudes.



twentyeight (andrew.clink@comcast.net) MSG #9, 02-11-2004 04:24 PM
      wow...

Master Tuner Akimoto MSG #10, 02-11-2004 04:35 PM
      Great documentation+ for ya.



Fiero STS (onesupermech@netscape.net) MSG #11, 02-11-2004 05:00 PM
      Nice job. only thing you forgot is to replace the rubber snubber on the shaft. this protects the shock when it bottoms out. just cut the plastic protector from snubber and reinstall.



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #12, 02-11-2004 05:59 PM
      Thanks Tim, that must be the bushing that I mentioned in reference to the sixth pic that at one time was attached to the dust boot.

Does that sound right?

I'll have to disassemble another junk set as I think I threw those bushings away, oops!

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 02-11-2004).]

rubyredfiero MSG #13, 02-11-2004 06:32 PM
      That's very well documented for anyone to follow. Very descriptive and effective. I was thinking of purchasing the coil over package, but your methodology is very doable and most important, cost effective. If I should screw it up, it will only be my own fault. Thank you for the input. You earned the positive rating from me.

Blacktree (m.blacktree@gmail.com) MSG #14, 02-11-2004 07:09 PM
      You got a + from me, too.

Darth Fiero (1880.ryan@gmail.com) MSG #15, 02-11-2004 07:15 PM
      Very good write-up. You definately get a + from me. Now my only question is I wonder if anyone sells a strut without the spring perch that will work on a Fiero and with this coilover setup...



avengador1 (avengador1@aol.com) MSG #16, 02-11-2004 07:19 PM
      Good write up. I can't believe I hadn't given you a plus before, that has been rectified.

Fiero STS (onesupermech@netscape.net) MSG #17, 02-11-2004 07:26 PM
      Yes the piece in the 6th picture that goes over the shaft.



Tina (2pieinthesky@msn.com) MSG #18, 02-11-2004 08:04 PM
      So that what you been up tp lately

Very nice.

Tina
BTW You gotta let me know next time there is one of these swapmeets.
Sounds like you you hit the "motherload" on the last one



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #19, 02-11-2004 09:14 PM
      So this set up is fully adjustable right... do you have them all the way up? Would a 7" sleave work better?

Let us know how they work

Rob

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #20, 02-11-2004 10:24 PM
      Thanks for the +'s everyone.

Hey Tina, been doing some home projects lately, the swap meet was at the end of January, it was -26 degrees when I went, it started at 8:03am and was outside. I had to go through every booth there before I found the adjusters, one was used but you could hardly tell, the other was still in the package and brand new. There were plenty of springs to choose from though, you just had to sort through to find the right rate spring. I'll try and remind you about the swap meet next year.

Rob, the last pic has the adjusters all the way up just to keep everything snug and the strut shaft is fully extended, if the stock coil spring was still on there it would be the same length overall. The only thing a 7" sleeve would do is to allow you to make the car sit up higher than stock. When I install them I'll put the wheels on and drop the car to the ground then start to lower the bottom perch until the car sits where I like it, most likely about a 1-2" drop for the rear. I don't anticipate getting the project car to the point where I can install them for a while yet but I'll post a pic when I do.

1MohrFiero MSG #21, 02-11-2004 10:37 PM
      Steve, that's terrific. I wish I could double your positive rating. You are fast reaching guru status. Great documentation too.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #22, 02-11-2004 10:58 PM
      Ok it looks good but I want to hear how it preforms? Give us a road result!



Capt Fiero (captfiero@captfiero.com) MSG #23, 02-11-2004 11:03 PM
      That looks awesome. Seeing as I was thinking about doing this mod, I think you just made up my minde, I want rear coilovers.



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #24, 02-11-2004 11:11 PM
      thanks, glad to hear that they are all the way up for a reason.

I like it. Looks like i have a new project.

Rob

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #25, 02-12-2004 02:24 AM
      fierohoho good job
I did not see any spring retainer at the top of the spring. Dont you need some type of holding device to keep the spring centered? You said you have the adjusting nut high to keep everything snug, but when you lower the nut in the car to get the hight you want the top of the spring will be free to move around if the car ever "jumped" over rail road tracks or bad roads at speed or when lifted by a jack. When the car comes down will the springs be seated properly? I have seen custom spring perches to prevent this condition. That is why both the top and bottom spring pirches on the stock system have a rolled edge, to "hug" the spring and keep it firmly in place. And there should always be a little tention on the spring to help prevent the "unseating" of the spring.
Thanks for the help. I like your step by step pics and posts.



spearce (spearce52@rogers.com) MSG #26, 02-12-2004 08:00 AM
      Fierohoho, What is the I.D. of the threaded sleve ( or the O.D of the strut )?

Great writeup this is just the info I've been looking for.


Steve


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #27, 02-12-2004 08:32 AM
      Great job. I've read about how to do it before, but never with the pictures. A plus for you.

Bob

dguy MSG #28, 02-12-2004 10:15 AM
      Nice write-up, fierohoho. A+4U.

One question though--how do you stop the sleeve from spinning when you turn the adjuster? Are there set screws or something similar which pins the sleeve against the strut's body?

-d.

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #29, 02-12-2004 11:30 AM
      Excellent write up Steve! And photographs to match!

The only thing I've got to add is that I purchased the sleeve from SCP for a bit less than the site you mentioned... just don't tell 'em your using it on a street car (they don't like that).

Are you going to be available to come down on the 21st? http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/037930.html



cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #30, 02-12-2004 11:45 AM
      Which kit works with our struts BRP606 or BRP617?

Steve



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #31, 02-12-2004 11:47 AM
      Just to answer a few questions:

dguy-there are no set screws to pin the sleeve to the strut tube. To adjust it I plan on jacking the car up to take the load off the spring, give the lower perch a few turns and drop it back down to see how I did, not the fastest way but when you're done I doubt there would be much need to readjust later. There may be enough pressure on the sleeve to keep it from spinning but I'm not sure. The lower perch does have an allen head set screw in it so when you get everything set where you want it you can lock it down and forget it.

spearce-the ID of the sleeve is about 2.035 and the OD of the strut tube is about 1.985

Rickady88GT-it looks like the knob that sticks down from the spring retainer plate that the bushing I made sits around should be adequate enough to keep the spring centered, if you look at the pic of the underside of the assembled strut you can see the washer I put back on, that washer seats on the underside of the knob, I guess that and the washer will keep it centered good enough for me.

It would be fairly easy to find a piece of tube with an ID a little bigger than the OD of the spring and figure out how long it needs to be and then weld it to the underside of the spring retainer plate, I will definately look into this in the future though.

My guess for the rolled lips on the stock spring perchs is due to the fact it's so big in diameter and sits so far from the strut tube whereas this upgrade has the spring very close to the strut tube.

Fiero STS- I looked and found the bushings you mentioned and the dust boots, I took some pics and will throw together some additional info on the snubber later today hopefully.

cancerkazoo-here's the links for the parts I mention:
The springs- http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/onlinestore/get product.cfm?CategoryID=17&ClassID=223&SubclassID=1058&ProductID=1241
The adjusters- http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/onlinestore/getp roduct.cfm?CategoryID=16&ClassID=207&SubclassID=1016&ProductID=830

I hope that helps you.

Everyone-this in not the only source for these parts, MNGreenGT found a link for cheaper than I found, shop around and I bet you can do even better.

Rob-PM sent

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 02-12-2004).]

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #32, 02-12-2004 05:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cancerkazoo:

Which kit works with our struts BRP606 or BRP617?

I used the BRP 617-7 (the 7" tower) on mine...

Chicken McNizzle (boscolingus@yahoo.com) MSG #33, 02-12-2004 07:00 PM
     
If you had inverted the bumpstop plate you would have saved yourself from constant bottoming-out, also - find some tubing that has a 1/2" larger ID than the spring OD and weld to the plate you fabricated - this will be far more effective in centering the spring rather than relying on the rusty, decomposing bumpstop to "center" the spring.

Also, didnt see if you did or didnt reinstall the dust boots around the strut shaft, DONT, they just trap moisture that will soon rust through the chrome finish on the strut shaft which will make your new struts worthless by allowing the nitrogen ( assuming that they are N charged ) gas to escape past the seals.



Posthumane (posthumane@yahoo.com) MSG #34, 02-12-2004 07:14 PM
      Someone please take the info from this thread and turn it into a more friendly format so that Cliff can put this up in the 'Tech Articles' section on the main page. This info is GOLD! I would do it myself, but I'm very busy lately. If nobody does it by next week, i will.

Btw, thanks for the awesome writeup!

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #35, 02-12-2004 07:48 PM
      Rob, what do you think would be better, the 5" sleeve or the 7" sleeve, I can't think offhand that one would be better than the other.

Posthumane- thanks for the compliment, I allways thought Cliff should have a tech article section that these types of threads could be posted in where they don't eventually fall off and then drop into the archives.

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #36, 02-12-2004 08:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:

Rob, what do you think would be better, the 5" sleeve or the 7" sleeve, I can't think offhand that one would be better than the other.

The only real benefit to using the 7" sleeve is that you could possibly get by with a shorter spring (10" - which might even be what I have)... that and it covers the whole shock body, so it's visually a bit nicer.

filthyscarecrow (grue0038@tc.umn.edu) MSG #37, 02-13-2004 03:57 AM
      i had been thinking about this since january of last year when i got coilovers for my integra.

i just measured the ID of the sleeve for my integra C/O's (pulled them in favor of H&R sports) and it's 2 1/16 inch. these are the cheap ebay coilovers. they cost <$80 shipped for a set of 4. yes, 4 sleeves/springs/hats. meaning you could buy them, do your conversion and sell the leftover parts. they also come with upper spring hats to better center the springs. the springs they come with are generally in the 450-500lb/in rate, but new C/O springs can be had for as little as $30/ea from various online vendors (i think i got mine at race tech fab).

as for securing the threaded tube to the strut body, large diameter o-rings actually work very well. they hold it secure and center it at the same time. make sure you put one at the very top of the threaded tube though, or water will get in and rust out the strut body. to install them this way, basically you just put 3 or 4 o-rings on the strut body, about 3" above where the very bottom of the sleeve will end up, spray the inside of the sleeve with hairspray and slide it over the o-rings. they'll slide down the strut body a little bit. once the sleeve is in place, use one last o-ring to seal the very top of it so water can't get in. once the hairspray dries up, the sleeves will not turn on the strut at all. you will need a solvent to remove the sleeves in the future.

a quick search on ebay for "integra coilovers" gave me a page of results with sets as low as $40 before shipping.
integra sets should all be slightly over 2" ID for the tube and should work with stock shocks, but aftermarket shocks like KYB may have a larger diameter (the ones for my integra were about 3/16" larger diameter).

hope this is useful info..

[This message has been edited by filthyscarecrow (edited 02-13-2004).]

Lambo nut MSG #38, 02-13-2004 11:21 AM
      In the middle of doing this very thing. I did not like the clearance between the coil and the upper plate's center piece, so I slide a piece of 2" schd 40 pipe, 2" in length over the snub on the upper spring plate, and tack welded into place. Won't move around much any more, and allows for a 2" unload, before the spring tries to relocate itself ( I don't plan on jumping anything anyway! ). Also, I did not reuse the big piece of the upper assembly, with the studs on it. I just took some 3/8", grade 8 bolts, 3/4" long, and tacked to the bottom of the smaller plate. they fit right in these holes, but will need to drill the ones on the car slightly larger, as they are closer to the 5/16" size. I did reuse the washer on the strut though, and had to turn it down to fit in the 2" pipe. This piece appears to keep the strut from extending through the top plate if the rubber were to fail in the upper piece. Might keep the rod from going through the deck lid. And it does go as in the picture, if installed the other way, it will not allow the rubber in the upper piece to do it's thing. Like I said, still in the middle of this, but so far so good. I am using the 7" sleeves to cover the strut body as well, and went with 300#, 12" coils. Sleeves and nuts from Coleman racing, and coils from Summit Racing.

Kevin

watts (dr.fiero@gmail.com) MSG #39, 02-13-2004 01:06 PM
      With regards to securing the tube to the strut...

When I got my Held coilovers for my 88cradle->87body kit, they simply have you smear a film of silicone on the inside of the tube. Slide it in place, clear off the squished out mess, and you're golden!

It's a minor PITA to get them off if you need new struts (already upgraded mine once), but it's totally do-able.


Deezlfitr (cmnessel@adelphia.net) MSG #40, 02-13-2004 01:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto:

Great documentation+ for ya.

Ditto from me... and very timely! I just received new struts and want to go to coil-overs! Thanks



86blackgt (schuette404@gmail.com) MSG #41, 02-15-2004 10:09 PM
      how do you know if the coilover sleeves will fit? do the carrera sleeves fit on the fiero strut without any extra work?

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #42, 02-16-2004 09:57 AM
      The Carrera tubes should fit over "normal" strut bodies without any trouble... I had to have mine enlarged slightly (thanks Darrell Morse) to accomodate my Koni Adjustables.

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #43, 02-16-2004 09:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:

only thing you forgot is to replace the rubber snubber on the shaft. this protects the shock when it bottoms out.


Well I think I've found the way to deal with this problem.

The factory snubber that sits on top of the dust boot from my strut was in bad shape, the center that holds the snubber and dust boot to the strut shaft had come loose, most likely due to the previous owners spring compressor lowering attempt, this piece is metal that was bonded to the rubber.

Just to check things out I removed the snubber from the dust boot and reinserted the center.

I held the snubber in the coil and found the fit was too close for what I was comfortable with so that piece was out.

So, off to the parts store where I found a possible solution in the "Help" section. It's a shock absorber bushing, it's 1 1/2" long with a hole a little smaller than the strut shaft diameter, part number 31010, my cost was $3.65 + tax.

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 06-18-2005).]

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #44, 02-16-2004 09:51 PM
      First thing I did was bevel one inside edge so it would make it easier to slide the bushing onto the strut shaft.

A little oil inside the bushing and on the shaft and it slid on with a little pressure.

I decided to leave off the washer I had put on before, the next pic shows a view of the spring retainer plate and bushing without the spring in the way.

This last pic is an underside view of the re-assembled coilover strut, I think the bushing will work well to dampen the shock when/if the car bottoms out.

I'm very happy with this set-up, additional cost for two bushings, about $7.50, cool.

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #45, 02-16-2004 11:07 PM
      what is the diff in spring size (10 vs. 12 etc..) and spring rate 250, 300, 325lb etc...

How do you pick the spring rate. I have a 3.4 DOHC engine on a 88 suspension. I want it to be about 2" lower when done, and i want no body roll, or bounce. I dont drive it daily, so im not worried about a tough, ride.

Rob



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #46, 02-17-2004 07:32 AM
      I'm not sure what the spring length would affect, maybe the amount of bottoming out on rough roads due to the shorter spring and shorter travel of the strut shaft?

They way I understand it is, the higher the spring rate the stiffer the suspension and rougher the ride. I have to check the spring rate for my springs as I want them to be about the same as stock.

Seems to me body roll is controled more by sway bars than spring rate but I'm sure that a stiffer spring would effect body roll a little also.

Anyone else have a thought on this?

[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 04-06-2007).]

Lambo nut MSG #47, 02-17-2004 10:48 AM
      Excellent find on the shock bushing! This was the last piece of the puzzle I was looking for.
If I may though, you might reconsider the washer. It just looks to me, that it would prevent the strut rod from pushing through the upper plate, shoud the rubber in the plate fail. Looks like it allows the bushing to do it's thing for about 3/16" of travel, then stops it, if needed. I'm just afraid without it, the force of some bumps in the road, may start to push the rod right up through the rubber bushing in the plate, and into the decklid. Especially with a stiff, gas filled strut. Then again, I might just be worring about it too much!!


dave@heldmotorsports.com (dave@team321.com) MSG #48, 02-17-2004 01:20 PM
      For a few dollars more, you can buy all the pieces / parts with proven
success... along with matching the right spring rate for your application,
driving style, engine / trans, etc... you can find them at :

http://heldmotorsports.com/coilk.htm

just thought I'd make sure that those looking for a ready-to-install kit,
or rear coilovers insalled on new struts know where to find them.

dave

Howard_Sacks (@hotmail.com) MSG #49, 02-17-2004 01:42 PM
      Spring length will effect ride height. if you run a short spring at a close to stock rate, you will bounce off the bump stops more often.

If you up the spring rate, the ride will get rougher. The cool thing about having a setup like this that you can get a couple sets of springs fairly cheap and pick what works best for you or even change depending on the season.

On a fiero, roll is controlled by springs as well as a rear roll-bar if equiped. In general, roll-bars are more effective.

Tune to Win and Competition Car Suspension are good places to start reading if you want to know more.

 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:

I'm not sure what the spring length would affect, maybe the amount of bottming out on rough roads due to the shorter spring and shorter travel of the strut shaft?

They way I understand it is, the higher the spring rate the stiffer the suspension and rougher the ride. I have to check the spring rate for my springs as I want them to be about the same as stock.

Seems to me body roll is controled more by sway bars than spring rate but I'm sure that a stiffer spring would effect body roll a little also.

Anyone else have a thought on this?



Lambo nut MSG #50, 02-17-2004 04:38 PM
      Dave, I'll agree, that for someone who knows not what they are doing, your kit would be an excellent way to go. But this thread was started I believe, to help some that can do it themselves, and save some money in the process.
I've only got a little under $150.00 in my set up, plus the struts, so for me $264.00 is not just "a few dollars more".
But yes, if someone is not sure what they are doing, please buy a kit from dave, or somewhere, that knows what they are doing, and save yourself, and maybe one of us, from a potential wreck/disaster!!

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 02-17-2004).]

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #51, 02-17-2004 08:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:

you might reconsider the washer. It just looks to me, that it would prevent the strut rod from pushing through the upper plate, should the rubber in the plate fail. Looks like it allows the bushing to do it's thing for about 3/16" of travel, then stops it, if needed. I'm just afraid without it, the force of some bumps in the road, may start to push the rod right up through the rubber bushing in the plate, and into the decklid. Especially with a stiff, gas filled strut.

Well today I got the second bushing for the last strut, (They only stocked one in the "HELP" section so I had to order the second one), and as I was installing it I looked over the setup and decided to put the washer back in on top of the bushing because of what Kevin said in his post, thanks Kevin for the input, I looked eveything over he talked about and it made sense, which meant I had to disassemble the other one to put the washer back in there, oh well.

Can't wait to get them in the project car..................someday.


Lambo nut MSG #52, 02-17-2004 10:21 PM
      Hey, we are all in this together, we can all learn as we go.
As you can probably tell by my user name, I am in the process, (very, very early stages) of building my dream car, a Lamborghini Countach 5000S. Since it is Fiero based, I am learning a lot about the car, from reading all the good info on this forum. If I see I can help someone, with something I have learned in my adventures, I'll try to do what I can.

Kevin

watts (dr.fiero@gmail.com) MSG #53, 02-17-2004 11:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:
what is the diff in spring size (10 vs. 12 etc..) and spring rate 250, 300, 325lb etc...

How do you pick the spring rate. I have a 3.4 DOHC engine on a 88 suspension. I want it to be about 2" lower when done, and i want no body roll, or bounce. I dont drive it daily, so im not worried about a tough, ride.

I've got the Held 88' cradle adaptor kit (which uses coilovers of course) in my 87 - I went with 400lb springs in the back (and I have the factory rear sway bar as well). It's hard! No denying that. But it's also VERY nice in the handling division.


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #54, 03-11-2004 06:54 PM
      I still want to hear how this is on the road, I would like to hear a road test, please!



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #55, 03-11-2004 07:08 PM
      Sorry Bobby, it's winter, I was bored, so I just did the thread. The coilovers are for the project car which I hope to have on wheels by this fall if all goes well so no road test from me for awhile, anyone else?

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #56, 03-26-2004 11:31 PM
      Anybody else do these build?



fierogt88 (sguentert@ma.rr.com) MSG #57, 03-29-2004 01:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dave@heldmotorsports.com:

For a few dollars more, you can buy all the pieces / parts with proven
success... along with matching the right spring rate for your application,
driving style, engine / trans, etc... you can find them at :

http://heldmotorsports.com/coilk.htm

just thought I'd make sure that those looking for a ready-to-install kit,
or rear coilovers insalled on new struts know where to find them.

dave

How about you get around to refunding my $2000 dollars for my defective spindles and big brake kit. After ripping me off for big bucks, you think I won't point it out every time you show yourselves? Until I get a refund on the crap you sold me, you can guarantee I will be around to tell people about it. Between this forum and the Grand Prix crowd, I guarantee that I will cost you more than $2000 in bad press.

I strongly suggest to everyone to steer clear from Held Motorsports. If you aren't familiar with coilovers, then get familiar or find someone local who already is. Don't depend on untrustworthy companies who will rip you off when the products prove to be defective and dangerous. DIY.

[This message has been edited by fierogt88 (edited 03-29-2004).]

m0sh_man (macantley@suddenlink.net) MSG #58, 03-29-2004 02:45 PM
      *hint hint* maybe if held would give a Pennocks fiero forum discount *hint hint* i would be persuaded (spelling) to go ahead and just order some rear coilovers from them in the close future........


matthew


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #59, 06-13-2004 11:35 PM
      Just looking for a road test update?



David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #60, 06-13-2004 11:43 PM
      Check out the ones I've put together...using sensi-trax', qs1's and coleman sleaves.





twentyeight (andrew.clink@comcast.net) MSG #61, 06-14-2004 02:46 AM
      maaan.. that look so sweet...

I'm gonna have to do this now

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #62, 06-14-2004 11:03 AM
      I'm doing this for sure about 8 months from now during winter in my autoshop class

roys88fiero (musclemachinegt@aol.com) MSG #63, 06-14-2004 02:25 PM
      AWWW MAN!!! i just finished putting new shocks and struts in my car! (monroe sens-a-track's, i highly reccomend them) I wish i would of read this earlier.......then i would of done the coilover mod.......Mann!! this sux, ohhh well i can still do it...... BTW tremendous job Fierohoho!!!!!! you get madddd props from me!!!



86blackgt (schuette404@gmail.com) MSG #64, 06-14-2004 03:44 PM
      David what adjusters did you use from coleman (part number)? And also whats the length of the spring you are using and the spring rate?

Your coilover set up looks really good.

Thanks

David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #65, 06-14-2004 04:46 PM
      86blackgt -

Springs = QS1 12-350 from Jegs. (12inch spring)
Coil Over Kit = PN: 420-701 from Coleman for Monroe Shocks. (7inch sleave)

[This message has been edited by David Bartlett (edited 06-14-2004).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #66, 06-14-2004 06:06 PM
      Looks sweet! How is it on the road?



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #67, 06-29-2004 07:28 PM
      ?



David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #68, 06-29-2004 07:42 PM
      Should be out on the road this week.. I'll post an update then.

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #69, 07-01-2004 04:03 PM
      How tight a fit are the sleeves on the strut body? Would this also fit the Koni struts as I believe they are somewhat larger in diameter.

David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #70, 07-01-2004 05:50 PM
      I had a couple thou. clearence. Not enough to get a large oring in, but enough to get 3-5 full wraps of electrical tape around the strut body. Sensi Tracks OD are 1.95 and the ID of the sleave is like 2.05.

Dave

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #71, 07-01-2004 05:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero-iwan:

How tight a fit are the sleeves on the strut body? Would this also fit the Koni struts as I believe they are somewhat larger in diameter.

I had Darrel Morse fit my coilovers to my Konis... both the konis had to be carefully "trimmed down" in a few areas, as well as the threaded adjuster had to be lightly bored out in a couple of spots. It all worked out well in the end though!

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #72, 07-06-2004 01:56 PM
      MinnGreenGT, that was the best way you have found?



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #73, 07-06-2004 02:19 PM
      So What Cars should we be looking for Beside Honda Civic's and which Model Acura?



shop_rat45 (kristopherjune@yahoo.com) MSG #74, 07-06-2004 06:13 PM
      I'm curious if the rubber bushing is needed between the strut shaft and where the strut mounts to the body? Could the strut shaft be solid mounted? I wonder how that would work?

This shows the bushing I am talking about.


David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #75, 07-06-2004 10:08 PM
      Driving, First Impressions.
12" 350 springs seem a little stiff for my liking. I think 300's would be perfect for a 2.8. I attempted to bounce the car by pressing on the shock towers and I couldn't get it too anything. STIFF!. But it handles so well, like a go-cart so I might keep them around and try them with the new engine I plan on getting next year. I am also running low profile tires for the first time so that might influence my first impression.

I ran into a problem with the heavy 350 springs not compressing under the weight of the vehicle. I had to move the coil over collar on the sleeve all the way down to the bottom of the strut to achieve the ground clearance I wanted. For reference: In the pictures above, the collar is about 2.5" off the bottom of the strut.

I'm counting on the springs settling a little, so the collar will move up respectively.

[This message has been edited by David Bartlett (edited 07-06-2004).]

Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #76, 07-12-2004 05:48 PM
      bump to top so I can bookmark this sucker.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #77, 07-15-2004 12:41 AM
      Is anybody using a 10" with 300lbs. springs with your coil over's?
I know that a stock spring is 12" but I am looking to lower the car.



shop_rat45 (kristopherjune@yahoo.com) MSG #78, 07-15-2004 02:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shop_rat45:

I'm curious if the rubber bushing is needed between the strut shaft and where the strut mounts to the body? Could the strut shaft be solid mounted? I wonder how that would work?

This shows the bushing I am talking about.

Anyone?



mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #79, 07-15-2004 10:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:
Is anybody using a 10" with 300lbs. springs with your coil over's?
I know that a stock spring is 12" but I am looking to lower the car.

Yes, that is what Im running, and its too soon to give thoughts as I just finished w/ the motor swap, so Im still working on it.

Seems to be AOK...will post more as I get more drive time on 'em.

--Allen

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #80, 07-19-2004 10:12 PM
      bump



Joe Torma (animatedjoe75@yahoo.com) MSG #81, 07-20-2004 01:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shop_rat45:
Anyone?

That bushing ends up being a pivot point...so you should not solid mount it. I asked a similar question recently.

Joe Torma (animatedjoe75@yahoo.com) MSG #82, 07-20-2004 11:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David Bartlett:

Check out the ones I've put together...using sensi-trax', qs1's and coleman sleaves.


David,
I can't see what is going on at the top of that strut when installed...how does the spring hold up the car? Is the entire weight of the vehicle on the center of the strut mount plate? Or is it like Fierohoho's--the spring contacting the body?
Just wondering because I'll be doing something like this soon

[This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 07-20-2004).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #83, 07-20-2004 02:42 PM
      So just walk me through a little part here:
1. The spring is a 12" or 10" (if you want to lower the cara few inches)
300 lbs. for a softer ride, 350 lbs. for a firmer hide
You can buy the springs for just about any vehicle that has the right size, a 2 1/2" inner opening
2. The ring that holds and allows you to adjust the spring height is call a what?
Is the a size needed for it?
3. The sleeve with the outer threads on its call a what?
Is there a set or needed size on it?
Do items 2 and 3 get sold in a set?
4. That is a stock type strut correct, just with the retainer for the spring cut and ground off?

Is this all that needed to make your own coil over?
I can see getting the spring from alot of places for about $30 to $45
How much is everything else and where is a good place to shop for them?



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #84, 07-20-2004 09:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

So just walk me through a little part here:
1. The spring is a 12" or 10" (if you want to lower the cara few inches)
300 lbs. for a softer ride, 350 lbs. for a firmer hide
You can buy the springs for just about any vehicle that has the right size, a 2 1/2" inner opening

Either 12" or 10" will work. 12" springs give you more travel before they coil bind (yes, 10" springs can coil bind before they hit the bump stops).
Coil over springs are not listed by application. They are listed by rate and length. Like this:
http://store.summitracing.com/eproduct.asp?N=120+4294925130+4294925129+303893
If they don't have what you want, they can special order it. This is where I've gotten my springs from.

 
quote
2. The ring that holds and allows you to adjust the spring height is call a what?
Is the a size needed for it?

adjustable spring seat

 
quote
3. The sleeve with the outer threads on its call a what?
Is there a set or needed size on it?
Do items 2 and 3 get sold in a set?

threaded sleeve.
Almost always sold as a set with #2.
http://www.colemanracing.com/section/index.htp?id=343
You can save a few dollars by calling Coleman up and geting them to send you just the sleeve and perch because the conical hat is not necessary.

 
quote
4. That is a stock type strut correct, just with the retainer for the spring cut and ground off?

Yes, stock replacement strut with the spring perch cut off. You can get a short threaded sleeve and seat it on the spring perch, but then you can't use a 12" spring.

 
quote
Is this all that needed to make your own coil over?

Yes. The conical hat in other pictures is NOT REQUIRED.

As you can see from the Summit and Coleman websites, the springs are $35 and the sleeve/spring perch assemblies are about $30. $65.side plus struts.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #85, 07-20-2004 10:10 PM
      My first set of coil overs:

The only thing wrong with this picture is that I didn't have a stock bump stop on it. Take the stop bump stop, cut the strut boot off of it and put it inside the spring. It fits perfectly and works just fine. The spring being in direct contact with the top plate causes absolutely no problems.



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #86, 07-20-2004 10:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
My first set of coil overs:

The only thing wrong with this picture is that I didn't have a stock bump stop on it. Take the stop bump stop, cut the strut boot off of it and put it inside the spring. It fits perfectly and works just fine. The spring being in direct contact with the top plate causes absolutely no problems.

Are you using the Stock Spring Perch trimmed up to hold the Sleeve????
It looks good



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #87, 07-20-2004 11:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kento:

Are you using the Stock Spring Perch trimmed up to hold the Sleeve????
It looks good

Yes, that's the way this one is made. It is one of a pair of RCC coil overs I bought used. I recommend cutting off the spring perch entirely and putting on a full length sleeve for greater adjustment range.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #88, 07-20-2004 11:57 PM
      So the height of the car doesn't change with a 10" or a 12" spring just the possility of a bind. I was hoping to lower the car about 1 1/2 to 2 inches. I take it that is done by where you set the adjustable spring seat at?



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #89, 07-21-2004 09:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

So the height of the car doesn't change with a 10" or a 12" spring just the possility of a bind. I was hoping to lower the car about 1 1/2 to 2 inches. I take it that is done by where you set the adjustable spring seat at?

Yes, that's the way the adjustable spring perch works. A 12" spring can limit the amount you lower the car IF you don' t have enough adjustment range on your adjustable spring perch. That's why I recommend the full length sleeve: to have enough adjustment range so that a 12" spring can be used.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #90, 07-21-2004 12:45 PM
      Thanks sound like its only about $230 for a pair



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #91, 07-21-2004 10:54 PM
      Depends on your struts. I wouldn't use anything but Konis with a spring over 300 ppi.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #92, 07-21-2004 11:50 PM
      KYB and QA1 make good suspenion parts without the $ tag.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #93, 07-22-2004 12:20 AM
      i've got new KYB struts and slightly used 275lb springs. where is the best deal on 7" adjustable sleeves? I'm going light on the rate because as some of you have posted, the KYB's are not able to handle the stronger springs... hopefully it'll be ok for the daily driver...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-22-2004).]

Lothurin (lothurin@gra.midco.net) MSG #94, 07-22-2004 02:06 PM
      anyone know how they might be able to do this with a rear shock (say for a beretta, or grand am?)

Thanks



David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #95, 07-22-2004 04:31 PM
      Having a 12" spring limits the drop more-so then the 10". I would recommend the 10" if you want the car really low with a 8" sleave.

David Bartlett (dlb@cogeco.ca) MSG #96, 07-22-2004 04:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Joe Torma:


David,
I can't see what is going on at the top of that strut when installed...how does the spring hold up the car? Is the entire weight of the vehicle on the center of the strut mount plate? Or is it like Fierohoho's--the spring contacting the body?
Just wondering because I'll be doing something like this soon

The coleman hat rides against a rubber busing inside one of the 2 shock mounting plates.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #97, 07-23-2004 10:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David Bartlett:

Having a 12" spring limits the drop more-so then the 10". I would recommend the 10" if you want the car really low with a 8" sleave.


12" spring only limits the drop if you use the conical hat. If you don't do that, there aren't any issues with a 12" spring.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #98, 07-23-2004 10:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David Bartlett:

The coleman hat rides against a rubber busing inside one of the 2 shock mounting plates.

That bushing wasn't really made to hold the weight of the car...



shop_rat45 (kristopherjune@yahoo.com) MSG #99, 07-24-2004 12:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Joe Torma:


That bushing ends up being a pivot point...so you should not solid mount it. I asked a similar question recently.

What actually picots?. Wouldn't the ball joint take care of all movement?

Kris

Joe Torma (animatedjoe75@yahoo.com) MSG #100, 07-24-2004 01:52 AM
      Because of the arc of the control arm, the top pivots slightly. I was hoping for an amount of movement when I posed the question, but I think I'll have to figure that out for myself.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #101, 07-24-2004 02:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
where is the best deal on 7" adjustable sleeves?

mcaanda pointed me towards coleman racing products. $58.80 plus shipping for two 7" adjustable sleeve kits.

http://www.colemanracing.com/

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-24-2004).]

Flyguyeddy (be329@lab.icc.edu) MSG #102, 07-24-2004 03:12 PM
      it appears that everyone oughta have one of these on there coilovers so as to avoid having to work there springs back into alignment after you raise the vehicle....

http://www.colemanracing.com/section/index.htp?id=1123

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #103, 07-24-2004 07:19 PM
      Unecessary if you do things as I have...



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #104, 07-27-2004 03:07 PM
      ?

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #105, 07-27-2004 10:43 PM
      The way I did things, when the car's jacked up the springs don't come down far enough to come off the center bushings in the top plates.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #106, 08-01-2004 05:51 AM
      I was looking at the pieces that came off the stock strut and I remembered someone mentioning that the rubber bushing in the top plate may not be designed to handle the up and down stresses from the strut rod. I figured that must be why there is a washer on both sides of the top plate. If I put the washers in the same place with my coilover spring installed it looks like it would work ok but will the top of the spring slide to one side or the other? I decided to cut a 1" strip of 16gauge metal and weld it on to retain the top of the spring. This will also make the lower washer stronger. I am using all the stock parts with this one addition and minus the dust boot. This should put the shock bumper at the stock height also. In case the top of the spring is a little lower than it could be, the adjusting sleeve should have plenty of room to handle the difference. This setup is for stock suspension height at this time. I am guessing that if I want to lower the car I will just lower the bottom of the spring.

this is what happens to a perfectly good brand new strut when you don't know what you're doing...
I am posting these pics to show what the inside of a KYB strut looks like. and how thick the tubing wall is.
EDIT: I cut this strut in two after I accidently nicked the strut tube with the dremel cutoff disk. It did not break in two...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-01-2004).]

Jake_Dragon MSG #107, 08-01-2004 09:48 AM
      I would never buff the purch weld all the way off the strut.
Here is what I did on my coil overs
First thing I did was score the weld on the purch side all the way around the strut.
Then I cut the part of the purch that goes around the strut so the large back half could be removed by hitting it with a hammer.
This let the back half of the purch come off the strut and left all the weld on the strut. I then did the same thing to the front of the purch.
Then I took my sleave and slowly ground down the weld till it would slid over the strut, I didnt have to take that much off the weld and you cant see it when the sleave.
I am using Helds kit but the same would apply here.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #108, 08-01-2004 02:27 PM
      Not a bad idea. I used a dremel cutoff to carefully cut the perch the first time. Not carefully enough because I cut into the tube about .030". I did not like the look of that. So I figured to chock that one up for expensive training and went to the family shop and used the bench grinder. I ground down most of the weld and perch at the weld and without cutting the perch just tapped with a hammer until the perch cracked all the way around at the thin spot. Then, just used the grinder to carefully remove the excess weld material. I was curious how much tubing wall was left on the bad one so I cut it all the way across. The gas pressure in these struts did not seem to be very much. The tubing wall was a little thicker than I imagined but why risk it? Live and learn I guess. I just wanted to share so hopefully no one else gets to learn this one this way.

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #109, 08-01-2004 04:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I was looking at the pieces that came off the stock strut and I remembered someone mentioning that the rubber bushing in the top plate may not be designed to handle the up and down stresses from the strut rod.

You're misunderstood what I said. I said that the center bushing is designed to handle ONLY the forces from the strut rod, and NOT the weight of the car. The washers are there so that if the bushing fails the car doesn't lose all damping on that corner. If you look at a stock strut, the spring presses against the top plate, NOT against the center bushing. Any coil over setup needs to copy that design.

 
quote
I figured that must be why there is a washer on both sides of the top plate. If I put the washers in the same place with my coilover spring installed it looks like it would work ok but will the top of the spring slide to one side or the other?

NO. Look at this picture:

There are ABSOLTUELY NO PROBLEMS doing things this way. The possibility that the spring may move up to 3/16" in any given direction is a COMPLETE NON-ISSUE. IRRELEVANT. The only time the suspension is ever unloaded enough for the spring to come off the plate is when the car's jacked up, but unless you've got the car ridiculously low, there wo NOT be a problem with the spring coming off the center bushing.

 
quote


This setup will put the entire weight of the car on the center bushing. I do not think that this is wise.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #110, 08-01-2004 05:11 PM
      hmmm, is there a .gif for humble, or maybe just stupid? Thanks Will, I get it now. So all I really want is to shave down the large washer enough to support the bumpstop and not touch the spring? I'd throw you another plus if I could...!

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #111, 08-02-2004 02:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

hmmm, is there a .gif for humble, or maybe just stupid? Thanks Will, I get it now. So all I really want is to shave down the large washer enough to support the bumpstop and not touch the spring? I'd throw you another plus if I could...!

You shouldn't need to shave anything. I used the stock bump stops. The only thing I did to them wat remove the strut boots. The bump stops barely fit inside the springs, but they fit without trimming. The stock washers work fine... no need to modify those at all.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #112, 08-02-2004 04:26 AM
      Hi Will,

i am going with the spring against the top plate as you have yours.

I was hoping to use the 3" lower washer in the stock location just below the top plate and just above the bump stop. I was thinking (here i go again...) that the curve on the top surface of the washer was designed to fit the bottom of the top plate in such a way as to allow the rubber to move a little. if the movement is too great then the metal of the washer would contact the top plate and that would be the limit. since the washer looked like it was supposed to support the bump stop on the lower surface i had hoped to retain that function. i was thinking of turning it down to approx 2.125" to 2.25" in order for it to fit inside the coilover. anyway that is what i meant when i said shave the lower washer. are you just using the metal cup in the bump stop for the lower washer?

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #113, 08-02-2004 01:28 PM
      I don't recall having any difficulty fitting the washer back into my spring. I do recall that it was quite snug, but it would go in. I had the washer sand blasted and powder coated, which may have had a slight effect.

Yes, the washers are there to limit motion of the bushing. Using that bushing and the washers may have simply been the easiest and least expensive way for GM to incorporate a pivot at that point. It would be interesting to replace it with a large rod-end and see if there ended up being a difference in subjective handling.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #114, 08-02-2004 09:30 PM
      Hi Will,

I am wondering if the larger washers are only on an 88? here is a pic of the washer I have. If the 84-87 have the smaller one that fierohoho posted earlier in this thread then I will swap these into my 86 when I change the struts on it. that way no extra work is done. these large washers are approx 3 3/4" in diameter.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #115, 08-03-2004 09:06 PM
      This is the washer to which I was referring:

The one you have pictured must be an '88 piece. I'd suggest using the early one instead of the one in your picture.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #116, 08-03-2004 09:11 PM
      Thanks

Jake_Dragon MSG #117, 10-07-2004 07:28 AM
     

 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
First thing I did was score the weld on the purch side all the way around the strut.
Then I cut the part of the purch that goes around the strut so the large back half could be removed by hitting it with a hammer.
This let the back half of the purch come off the strut and left all the weld on the strut. I then did the same thing to the front of the purch.



Joe Torma (animatedjoe75@yahoo.com) MSG #118, 10-07-2004 12:53 PM
      cptsnoopy, or anyone...can you do me a favor and measure the diameter of that KYB strut tube? I'm wondering if it's the same as Monroes. Thanks

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #119, 10-12-2004 10:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Joe Torma:

cptsnoopy, or anyone...can you do me a favor and measure the diameter of that KYB strut tube? I'm wondering if it's the same as Monroes. Thanks

Hi Joe,

I measured my brand new KYBs before I ordered sleeves from Coleman racing; it was 2.00 +/- .02 inches. I can't remember if it was just under or just over 2. I'm leaning towards just under, though. Thats because I just measured my stock struts and they are like 1.99. I ordered the 2.04 ID sleeves from Coleman. They aren't a tight fit, but after installing and lightly pounding in with a screwdriver the included snap ring at the top (it fits into the end of the sleeve with the larger inner diameter shelf machined into it) they center perfectly and are very snug.
Does that help? If not I'll try to find my notes if they are still around.

-Steven

Joe Torma (animatedjoe75@yahoo.com) MSG #120, 10-15-2004 02:16 AM
      That's what I was looking for. They are the same as the Monroes I have. I'm probably going to start out with the monores(that I have) when I get to doing the air bags setup and just needed to make sure I could step up to the kybs if needed without remkaing the lower bag mount!
Thanks!


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #121, 11-01-2004 08:03 PM
     



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #122, 11-17-2004 08:43 AM
      Bump for KillerX so he can bookmark this thread.



KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #123, 11-18-2004 03:02 AM
      HA HA HA thanX man!!! ya I asked about it in another thread...thank you again for that... I got some questions about this but im going to re read before I ask them so im not a noob I wanted to try these but didnt know what would be the best strut to use but ill re read its been a while

Brad

KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #124, 11-30-2004 10:23 AM
      ok heres a question! when ordering from colemans, right now i have the original struts but im going to upgrade them in the future (Kyb or others)...should i get the 7" Coil-Over Kit (2.04 I.D.) or the 2.08 (pretty sure the 2.04 will work with kybs and mine but wanna make sure.) also for these springs i jsut call up summit and tell them i want 300lbs 12" springs with a 2 5/8" ID?

thanX
Brad


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #125, 11-30-2004 03:23 PM
      Brad, the 2.04 ID sleeves fit over my KYBs fine. I didn't measure my factory struts but they are sitting in my garage, so I'll measure them when I get home.
Here are the springs I used:
http://store.summitracing.com/eproduct.asp?N=120+400026+303893
For the rear of my 88 I got the 12" 170lb/in springs (factory rate on 88's rear is ~150lb/in. pre-88s are way different).

-Steven



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #126, 12-01-2004 01:55 AM
      Brad, on the 88 factory struts there is a washer-like part at the top of the strut body where the shaft exits. These piece is too wide to allow the threaded coilover sleeve to fit. My KYBs have a much smaller piece that had a smaller diameter than the strut tube itself. You'll need to grind down this portion to allow the sleeve to fit.
Here are some of fierohoho's pics that show what I'm talking about (these are from the first page of this thread):
Before modifications:
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:


After:
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:


As far as the strut body itself, it has almost exactly the same outside diameter as the KYB replacements. (1.99inches or so)

-Steven

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 12-01-2004).]

KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #127, 12-01-2004 10:37 AM
      Steven Snyder, hey thanks for the info....but i have the 1985 not the 88 will these still work?
ThanX
Brad


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #128, 12-01-2004 03:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:

Steven Snyder, hey thanks for the info....but i have the 1985 not the 88 will these still work?
ThanX
Brad

even better. when I did my 88 the washers just under the mount plate were much bigger than the 84-87 year. I had to go get some from an earlier car at the junk yard. once you get your struts off where you can see them it will be easy to see what to do.
good luck.


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #129, 12-01-2004 05:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:

Steven Snyder, hey thanks for the info....but i have the 1985 not the 88 will these still work?
ThanX
Brad

Yes, those pictures from fierohoho were of a pre-88 strut. You will still need to do the trimming as mentioned but they will work fine otherwise. The OEM strut body is the same size for all years. The KYB replacement struts I purchased were for 84-87 Fieros so when you get your KYBs you will be using the same setup as myself.

-Steven

KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #130, 12-03-2004 07:46 AM
      alright thanX guys! + for yas
well im gonna call up collman right now get 7" Coil-Over Kit (2.04 I.D.) and call up summit and get tell them i want 300lbs 12" springs with a 2 5/8" ID now since im getting the 7" should i consider going 10" spring? since i do wanna lower it? i just dont wanna run out of room on the botom of the coil over and it would probably look nicer with the 10 becuase it would sit maybe in the middle of the ciol over part...
thanX


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #131, 12-04-2004 07:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:
should i consider going 10" spring? since i do wanna lower it? i just dont wanna run out of room on the botom of the coil over and it would probably look nicer with the 10 becuase it would sit maybe in the middle of the ciol over part...
thanX

I have 12" springs and it looks like I would run out of suspension travel way before the adjustable perch hits the bottom of the strut.

-Steven

Azriel MSG #132, 01-26-2005 03:42 AM
      bump

This is the type of info that should stay at the top.

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #133, 01-26-2005 07:13 AM
      Please tell me no one actually does this with factory struts. Not only were they junk to start, but they're useless after these years.

KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #134, 01-28-2005 01:14 AM
      Ok So I got the 7" sleeve with a 10" spring... what strut should I get that will work with this? also do you guys have part numbers from the places too?
thanks guys
Brad

[This message has been edited by KillerX (edited 01-28-2005).]

Azriel MSG #135, 01-28-2005 03:36 AM
      I went with 5 inch adjusters and 12 inch springs. 350# Eibachs to handle the weight of the big block.

In reply to the factory struts thing. I really doubt very many of us still have the origional struts. These cars are 20 years old.

The adjusters cost about $40 shipped with springs you can throw away cause they are crap. Just get a CRX coilover kit. They fit, and you get enough parts for 2 fieros. The eibachs are $49 ea. new. Throw in some good struts and you will be under $250 still I'm sure, and that's with 2 adjusters left over.

[This message has been edited by Azriel (edited 01-28-2005).]

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #136, 01-28-2005 03:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:
what strut should I get that will work with this?

KYB and Monroe replacement struts have been confirmed to have the same outer diameter and will work properly with the commonly available threaded sleeves. Gabriel struts, being another standard factory replacement, also probably have the same outer diameter. Konis are larger diameter and you must have the strut housings modified or the threaded sleeves modified to fit them together properly.
Be very very careful when removing the spring perches to use those sleeves. You definitely do not want to cut into the strut housing!

-Steven


HarryG (hg4570@sbcglobal.net) MSG #137, 01-28-2005 12:15 PM
      So, has anyone done this using Konis? I looked in the archives and found a couple comments about Konis being larger at the top due to their rebuildable feature. So regular sleeves won't fit. Anyone got any pics/specs of the Koni top section?

musicman_L7 (nlowther@fmctc.com) MSG #138, 01-28-2005 03:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by HarryG:

So, has anyone done this using Konis? I looked in the archives and found a couple comments about Konis being larger at the top due to their rebuildable feature. So regular sleeves won't fit. Anyone got any pics/specs of the Koni top section?

Check with MinnGreenGT, I believe he is running Koni's on his car with coilovers.



KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #139, 01-29-2005 12:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


KYB and Monroe replacement struts have been confirmed to have the same outer diameter and will work properly with the commonly available threaded sleeves. Gabriel struts, being another standard factory replacement, also probably have the same outer diameter. Konis are larger diameter and you must have the strut housings modified or the threaded sleeves modified to fit them together properly.
Be very very careful when removing the spring perches to use those sleeves. You definitely do not want to cut into the strut housing!

-Steven

ha ha ha Nice thanks guys! Do you guys have part numbers? for KYB and/or Monroe? or places to buy them "cheap"
thanks
Brad


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #140, 01-29-2005 03:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:
ha ha ha Nice thanks guys! Do you guys have part numbers? for KYB and/or Monroe? or places to buy them "cheap"
thanks
Brad

84-88 rear struts: KYB 234005 ("GR2"). For 88s you may need to grind into part of the mounting area of the strut for spindle clearance. If you have factory 88 struts you will see the cutout that is missing from the 84-87 replacement struts such as the 234005. If not, just install the strut temporarily and try to adjust to max camber. If you can't get the adjustment bolt to go to its maximum camber setting you need to trim. You'll see a mark on the strut where the spindle and strut collided. Just dremel away until it clears.
84-87 front shocks: KYB KG4538 ("Gas-A-Just")
88 front shocks: 343127 ("GR2") or KG4513 ("Gas-A-Just")
The best price I found was from www.pickproparts.com, but there are certainly other dealers with similar and perhaps better prices.

-Steven

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 01-29-2005).]

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #141, 01-29-2005 12:14 PM
      So what spring rate is reccomended as a good place to start with early chassis, 88 cradle, 3800sc, man trans? I'm thinking about ordering 300-350, just not sure which end is better to start at. I have no problems getting another set of springs, but the closer the first time, the better. The car is pretty stripped down, and aimed more towards handling than comfort..

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #142, 01-29-2005 05:20 PM
      300 should be fine from what I'm told.

Edit for typo



jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #143, 01-29-2005 11:51 PM
     

All of my components came from Speedway Motors and I think I gave about $140 for them. Almost $100 of that was for the Carrera Chrome Springs because that was the look I wanted. Springs are available much cheaper. The wrench was also about $7 IIRC to adjust the perches

John Stricker

GonsaiPK MSG #144, 01-30-2005 05:11 PM
      That's beautiful! Money well spent, I think.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #145, 02-02-2005 11:52 AM
      John that is a really nice looking setup. Is that $140 for 2 chrome plated springs and 2 adjustable threaded perchs?



KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #146, 02-03-2005 12:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


84-88 rear struts: KYB 234005 ("GR2"). For 88s you may need to grind into part of the mounting area of the strut for spindle clearance. If you have factory 88 struts you will see the cutout that is missing from the 84-87 replacement struts such as the 234005. If not, just install the strut temporarily and try to adjust to max camber. If you can't get the adjustment bolt to go to its maximum camber setting you need to trim. You'll see a mark on the strut where the spindle and strut collided. Just dremel away until it clears.
84-87 front shocks: KYB KG4538 ("Gas-A-Just")
88 front shocks: 343127 ("GR2") or KG4513 ("Gas-A-Just")
The best price I found was from www.pickproparts.com, but there are certainly other dealers with similar and perhaps better prices.

-Steven

wow thanks alot!!! Great prices on there! So I order the 84-88 rear struts: KYB 234005 ("GR2") for my 85 and itll work with my sleeve and spring? (with the exception of cutting that middle peice off which will be a joy LOL)

Brad


jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #147, 02-03-2005 12:42 AM
      Something like that, I don't remember for sure and the receipts are at the shop. You can go to Speedway Motors and price out what you want yourself. They have a very large selection of whatever you might want.............and then some.

They aren't the cheapest, but they are next day to me for regular UPS ground rates and I've never had anything backordered, unlike Jegs.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

John that is a really nice looking setup. Is that $140 for 2 chrome plated springs and 2 adjustable threaded perchs?

[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 02-03-2005).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #148, 02-12-2005 11:55 PM
      I e-mailed Speedway asking them a few questions and I have to say they were no help what so ever!



Dino MSG #149, 02-13-2005 01:23 AM
      Yeah I'd like to hear about how to do coilovers on Koni's too. Anyone want to tell the story?

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #150, 02-13-2005 09:20 AM
      As far as Konis go, they do require more modification than normal struts, but they still work.

You have to disassemble them and either turn the cap nut down to a small enough diameter to fit inside the threaded sleeve or put the threaded sleeve on and then put the cap nut back on. You'll also need to turn down the strut body right below the cap nut just a bit. www.colemanracing.com has 2.040 sleeves that make this easier.
Be careful when removing the cap nut, as you'll blow off the nitrogen charge. A tech at Koni says that this is no big deal as they frequently do this in order for the shocks to not raise a customer's very low AutoX car...


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #151, 02-13-2005 12:52 PM
      I have been told that Koni on a Fiero are just as good as the upper style KYB and the KYB is alot cheaper in price.



WS63100FIEROGT (will_eng@sympatico.ca) MSG #152, 02-13-2005 04:27 PM
      Does anybody know the spring rate of the rear WS6 stock springs? Just to have a relative comparison.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #153, 02-13-2005 06:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:
I have been told that Koni on a Fiero are just as good as the upper style KYB and the KYB is alot cheaper in price.

I tried KYB's on the front of my car and Konis on the front are WAYYYY better...

MiZer (mizer@telus.net) MSG #154, 02-13-2005 11:18 PM
      awsome buildup.



jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #155, 02-14-2005 05:26 PM
      What questions did you ask? They're not exactly a Fiero Specific vendor. They cater to the people that know what they want, but this isn't rocket science so I'm wonering what it is you need to know that hasn't already been asked and answered in this thread.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I e-mailed Speedway asking them a few questions and I have to say they were no help what so ever!



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #156, 02-15-2005 10:18 AM
      I asked them if they carried a front shock that would fit the Fiero and if there was a large size diff. between each outer dia. from one strut to another.



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #157, 02-15-2005 03:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:
wow thanks alot!!! Great prices on there! So I order the 84-88 rear struts: KYB 234005 ("GR2") for my 85 and itll work with my sleeve and spring? (with the exception of cutting that middle peice off which will be a joy LOL)
Brad

Yes.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
As far as Konis go, they do require more modification than normal struts, but they still work.

You have to disassemble them and either turn the cap nut down to a small enough diameter to fit inside the threaded sleeve or put the threaded sleeve on and then put the cap nut back on. You'll also need to turn down the strut body right below the cap nut just a bit. www.colemanracing.com has 2.040 sleeves that make this easier.
Be careful when removing the cap nut, as you'll blow off the nitrogen charge. A tech at Koni says that this is no big deal as they frequently do this in order for the shocks to not raise a customer's very low AutoX car...

Does Koni still honor the warranty on the struts if that work is done by a qualified machine shop? If not, do you know if there is anyway to have coilover Konis without voiding that sweet lifetime warranty?

-Steven


jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #158, 02-15-2005 05:33 PM
      Speedway sells parts to two groups of people. The first is the one they've made their living on for decades and that's the circle track cars. Not many Fiero's in that group. More recently, they've gotten into street rod stuff. Not many Fiero's there.

They don't handle normal, replacemant parts like Monroe, etc. They handle Aldan, Carrera, etc., for the street rod guys and the circle burners.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised that they wouldn't know what shock a Fiero took or even that they didn't know the size difference between struts, since they don't sell either one. The strut sizes have been mentioned several times in this thread and, since it's about coil overs, the front shock questions didn't come up, unless you're thinking of front coilovers in which case that would depend on the kit or how you were doing it yourself, hardly something anyone here could know.

The tone of your post suggested that you expected Speedway to know the answers to questions that they would have no reason or business knowing, IMHO. If you want to view them negatively for that, then have at it. I won't. You won't find better service anywhere in the country and if you want good quality and quick shipping, they're your folks.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I asked them if they carried a front shock that would fit the Fiero and if there was a large size diff. between each outer dia. from one strut to another.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #159, 02-17-2005 04:06 PM
      Well I am getting ready to order the springs and struts here soon but I have one question.
I am looking at getting the front shocks Gas-A-Just KG4513 for the front Shocks ($27.99 Jegs)
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=258566&prmenbr=361

My question is I need a nice KYB strut to match, any ideas?
I was thinking this may work out nice?
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=253444&prmenbr=361

I haven't really desided on where to get the coil over package just yet but have desided on the size.
7" threaded, with a 10" X 2 5/8 ID and a 250 LBS. rating.



Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #160, 02-17-2005 06:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
Does Koni still honor the warranty on the struts if that work is done by a qualified machine shop? If not, do you know if there is anyway to have coilover Konis without voiding that sweet lifetime warranty?

-Steven

I wouldnt bother too much about warranty because Koni's WILL work for a lifetime! Or two. About seven years ago I was able to reuse the front Koni shocks from my crashed 86GT on my new 87GT...

After all these years they still work great...!

I am looking to do this nice coilover idea sometime, my lowering springs already come loose when I jack up the car and I want to lower it some more....so coilover is the best solution. Now I wonder if someone has done a side by side comparison with a modified fieroshock+coilover setup, with already existing coilover kits for "popular" cars. With a good match you wouldnt have to mod anything plus it might be easier to get.. I guess the 2 bolt holes need to line up with the knuckle....the length would be less important because its adjustable anyway...


88gtNewb (fastfiero5@hotmail.com) MSG #161, 02-17-2005 06:28 PM
      GSXRBOBBY, Those GR-2 struts are not ideal, as they are low-pressure shocks unlike the Gas-A-Justs. But, seeing as it's the best one you can get without stepping up to Konis, it seems most people find them acceptable.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #162, 02-17-2005 06:40 PM
      I just haven't found a place that sells a KYB Gas-A-Just strut for a rear 88 Fiero. Or at least they don't have it listed?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #163, 02-18-2005 12:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I just haven't found a place that sells a KYB Gas-A-Just strut for a rear 88 Fiero. Or at least they don't have it listed?

i downloaded KYB's catalog for 2004 and it does not offer a Gas-A-Just for the 84-88 rear struts. bummer...




MstangsBware (stephen_p38@yahoo.com) MSG #164, 02-18-2005 12:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I just haven't found a place that sells a KYB Gas-A-Just strut for a rear 88 Fiero. Or at least they don't have it listed?

And you wont find a place that sells them, just like no one carries the GR2 for the 88. From what I have found, KYB doesnt make rear struts for the 88, you use pre-88 struts on the 88. They work fine with a little grinding on the Pass side knuckle to let the bolt clear.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #165, 02-18-2005 11:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


i downloaded KYB's catalog for 2004 and it does not offer a Gas-A-Just for the 84-88 rear struts. bummer...

Yes it does suck, but its one of the many things we have to deal with when building up a Fiero!


 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


And you wont find a place that sells them, just like no one carries the GR2 for the 88. From what I have found, KYB doesnt make rear struts for the 88, you use pre-88 struts on the 88. They work fine with a little grinding on the Pass side knuckle to let the bolt clear.


I remember hearing that before, Also I think its not big deal with not alot of cutting or grinding. I also remember hearing it isn't even needed everytime.

I guess the only other strut out there is the Koni that is worth using?



Kohburn MSG #166, 02-18-2005 12:07 PM
      time to start comparing struts from the front end of other cars (probably imports) to see if we can make em work
or you could be creative and make mounting tabs to bolt on some non-strut shocks in addition to the stock struts


Azriel MSG #167, 02-18-2005 03:02 PM
      Well, my GT is getting a very heavy 472 BB, and THM325-4L. I just bought Hypercoil 10 inch 400# springs. I have the shorter adjusters, so I will be using the stock perch location. What struts would be able to handle a 400# rate? I'm going to build the car with the old stock struts for now, but that's just because I need to know where the strut is going to be and how much room i have when I notch the strut towers for the beast.

You want coilovers to clear you bling wheels. I need em to clear my bigass engine.

[This message has been edited by Azriel (edited 02-18-2005).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #168, 02-18-2005 03:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Azriel:

Well, my GT is getting a very heavy 472 BB, and THM325-4L. I just bought Hypercoil 10 inch 400# springs. I have the shorter adjusters, so I will be using the stock perch location. What struts would be able to handle a 400# rate? I'm going to build the car with the old stock struts for now, but that's just because I need to know where the strut is going to be and how much room i have when I notch the strut towers for the beast.

You want coilovers to clear you bling wheels. I need em to clear my bigass engine.

400 lbs spring? That is a heavy spring, I think it maybe to much even though you have extra weight of the auto trans.



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #169, 02-28-2005 04:50 PM
      OK, Here is what Mine look like. I started with a Set of Civic Coilovers and Gabrial Struts.



KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #170, 03-05-2005 03:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerX:

alright thanX guys! + for yas
well im gonna call up collman right now get 7" Coil-Over Kit (2.04 I.D.) and call up summit and get tell them i want 300lbs 12" springs with a 2 5/8" ID now since im getting the 7" should i consider going 10" spring? since i do wanna lower it? i just dont wanna run out of room on the botom of the coil over and it would probably look nicer with the 10 becuase it would sit maybe in the middle of the ciol over part...
thanX

Well I have a problem, I called up summit racing and they said in a 12" or 10" they only have the 2.5 in. Diameter OR 3.5 (dont need the 3.5)... what should I do now?
I just ordered KYB struts for my 85 Fiero and wanted to try to get everything ordered today so they would be here intime for march break so I could slap these babys in
thanks
Brad

[This message has been edited by KillerX (edited 03-05-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #171, 03-05-2005 05:53 PM
      i just checked my coilover springs, they are 2.5" ID. should be no problems. have fun


KillerX (bradarmas1@gmail.com) MSG #172, 03-06-2005 12:05 AM
      thanks alot!, I still cant belive im going to buy brand new KYB's and chop them up lol well wish me luck

Brad

Machine (kingsbishop1@aol.com) MSG #173, 03-06-2005 01:15 PM
      wow... nice write up. i think EVEN i could do it with that pictoral

fatmerk (jasonmerkl@gmail.com) MSG #174, 04-19-2005 06:30 PM
      The Groung Control coil over conversion kit for the 84-87 rear struts is only about $200 and it comes as a kit why wouldn't you just use the kit? they have any spring rate that you need.

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #175, 04-20-2005 05:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fatmerk:

The Groung Control coil over conversion kit for the 84-87 rear struts is only about $200 and it comes as a kit why wouldn't you just use the kit? they have any spring rate that you need.

Can you post a link to their site so we can checjk it out?

fatmerk (jasonmerkl@gmail.com) MSG #176, 04-20-2005 09:07 AM
      the link is http://www.ground-control-store.com, then there will be a row of small pictures click on the 3rd last on the right (the one that says ALL OTHER MAKES) then click on chevrolet/pontiac , then scroll down to the one that says: Coilover conversion kit, 84-87 pontiac fiero rear

fatmerk (jasonmerkl@gmail.com) MSG #177, 04-20-2005 09:15 AM
      or on www.shox.com when you search for the pontiac fiero it will be on there for the same price,and they are on www.nolimitmotorsport.com you have to sscroll down to ground control open it at the top click on applications click on pontiac then on click on the part number for pontiac fiero the price here is $189 and you get free shipping on it in the continental us but the dont carry the kit for kyb's.

[This message has been edited by fatmerk (edited 04-20-2005).]

James Bond 007 MSG #178, 05-15-2005 05:57 PM
      What,let this thread die....never, (for the nubies).

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #179, 05-16-2005 10:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by James Bond 007:

What,let this thread die....never, (for the nubies).

HAHAHA!!!

1MohrFiero MSG #180, 05-29-2005 01:58 PM
      It lives on...



Strange Brew (strange.brew@shaw.ca) MSG #181, 06-18-2005 01:01 PM
      And On!!!

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #182, 08-03-2005 01:11 AM
      Bump TTT and a question. If I wanted to use Konis, would Coleman 2.08 ID Coil Over Kit be any easier to use than the 2.04 ID kit? Is that 0.04 inches going to make life easier, or still involve removing some nut, and releasing some gas?

countach711 (johngates@hotmail.com) MSG #183, 08-03-2005 02:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:


I wouldnt bother too much about warranty because Koni's WILL work for a lifetime! Or two. About seven years ago I was able to reuse the front Koni shocks from my crashed 86GT on my new 87GT...

After all these years they still work great...!

I am looking to do this nice coilover idea sometime, my lowering springs already come loose when I jack up the car and I want to lower it some more....so coilover is the best solution. Now I wonder if someone has done a side by side comparison with a modified fieroshock+coilover setup, with already existing coilover kits for "popular" cars. With a good match you wouldnt have to mod anything plus it might be easier to get.. I guess the 2 bolt holes need to line up with the knuckle....the length would be less important because its adjustable anyway...


Hey, did anybody tell you, there's a dent in the front of your car? I seem to remember this from a while back... how fast were you going when you met the tree? You were lucky, and that is a SAFE car!


Roland MSG #184, 08-05-2005 11:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:


damn.....i just think....damn! any crash you can walk, er hop away from... Your only injury looks to be a broken foot? amazing! that is the worst front collision i have ever seen on a Fiero. Either you were very lucky, or the Fiero is a REALLY good front impactor. Glad you made it out to drive another car!

on a side note, i had no idea Koni's were so resilliant. I appreciate mine a lot more now, but i dont think i want to cut them for this set-up, I would rather cut a set of KYB's to keep the Koni warrentee intact. cool thread

[This message has been edited by Roland (edited 08-05-2005).]

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #185, 08-05-2005 06:30 PM
      Why pay 200 for only rear coil over kit? You could save some cash and just buy some coilover sleeves off ebay. Doesn't really matter which ones, as long as they have more than a rubber band holding then on. Then go to jegs or summit and order some QA1 progressive or linear rate springs. QA1 coilovers for cheaper. Eibach is cool but QA1 is better. That's like $150

Fie Ro - How the hell did you survive that wreck? How fast were you going? What did you hit?

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 08-11-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #186, 08-05-2005 06:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

Bump TTT and a question. If I wanted to use Konis, would Coleman 2.08 ID Coil Over Kit be any easier to use than the 2.04 ID kit? Is that 0.04 inches going to make life easier, or still involve removing some nut, and releasing some gas?

You'll still have to blow off some gas.
I've done exactly that.


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #187, 08-11-2005 11:59 AM
      What does everyone think of QA1 10 inch progressive rate 225-475lb springs? Too firm? Will the progressive rate be good or bad with a coil over setup?

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #188, 08-11-2005 03:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

What does everyone think of QA1 10 inch progressive rate 225-475lb springs? Too firm? Will the progressive rate be good or bad with a coil over setup?

Progressive rate springs have agood side and a bad side, as do linear rate springs. Progressive rate springs get stiffer the more they compress. The 225lb would be a nice comfy ride when cruising, but would increase to about 475 the more they compress. Riding around on 475lb would really suck if you hit a bump. I had a civic with linear rate springs, 400lb front and 350lb rear on koni reds. It was the $hit. But I had 7 inch springs and the springs were too stiff for the damper of the struts. I would bounce, not very good. Some people don't like progressive because they are soft at first then they become stiff, they seem to call the springs unpredictable.

Linear rate springs are the same no matter what, some like these because they don't change and become more predictable. Now if you want a super stiff spring rate like 450-500lb then I would definetly get a progressive rate spring, just because riding on a spring that stiff on city streets will shake you and your car loose, the ride would just suck. For a softer spring rate like 250-300 go linear.

What do you want.....stock replacement, lower ride height, drag spring or autocross.

The main purpose of coilovers is so you can raise or lower you car as you want, adjustability. On some cars like fieros it allows the use of a wider rim/tire combo. Any spring can go on a coilover, what makes the difference is if the shock/strut damper rate can handle the spring rate.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 08-11-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #189, 08-11-2005 09:52 PM
      The MAIN purpose of height adjustable suspensions is ACTUALLY for weight jacking. Ride height is secondary, although adjusted on competition cars for aerodynamic reasons, not just to lower the car.

For handling, get linear rate springs. The damping coefficient of the suspension is the relationship of spring rate to shock valving. This is constant with linear rate springs. It's all over the place with progressive rate springs. Can't match a damper to a spring with variable rate. Progressive rate springs are a COMPROMISE to make a semi-handling suspension easier to drive on the street.

10" is generally too short for the rear of a Fiero. Struts have near 1:1 motion ratio and thus require much more spring travel than a Honda with a 2:1 motion ratio. The Honda can get away with much less spring travel than the Fiero.

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #190, 08-11-2005 11:06 PM
      This is so confusing. I am mechanically inclined, but I don't understand spring rates, etc. All I want is to be able to change my ride height as my car changes (new rims, etc.) and have good sporty streetable handling. So I was thinking 275 lb springs would meet my needs, right? Then I was thinking if I put the sleeve on the strut perch I'd want 10 inch springs; however, if I cut off the strut perch I'd want 12 inch springs. But now I hear 10 inch is too short? For comparison, what are the stock spring rates?

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #191, 08-12-2005 04:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

This is so confusing. I am mechanically inclined, but I don't understand spring rates, etc. All I want is to be able to change my ride height as my car changes (new rims, etc.) and have good sporty streetable handling. So I was thinking 275 lb springs would meet my needs, right? Then I was thinking if I put the sleeve on the strut perch I'd want 10 inch springs; however, if I cut off the strut perch I'd want 12 inch springs. But now I hear 10 inch is too short? For comparison, what are the stock spring rates?

Stock spring rates for an '88 Fiero (all models) are 142lb/in rear and 205lb/in front (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050119-2-054238.html)
12" spring with the spring perch cut off and full length sleeves works perfect.

-Steven

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #192, 08-13-2005 12:49 PM
      that seems too soft for a fiero and I thought the stiffer springs belong in the back since there is more weight there? I would run a spring rate from anywhere of 250 to about 350.

Project SRTFiero (raiderman986@charter.net) MSG #193, 08-14-2005 12:58 AM
      I am not really familiar with suspension but i was wondering if the same concept your using for the rear would work with the front as well, I want to lower my car all the way around and i just thought this would be a good option thanks for the help. also bump to get this back on page 1, and great write up fierohoho, it made my mind on doing this.

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #194, 08-14-2005 02:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Project SRTFiero:

I am not really familiar with suspension but i was wondering if the same concept your using for the rear would work with the front as well, I want to lower my car all the way around and i just thought this would be a good option thanks for the help.

Totally different between the front and back suspension setup, several different ways to lower the front and lots of good threads will come up on the subject using the search fucntion.

Steve

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #195, 08-14-2005 03:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:

that seems too soft for a fiero and I thought the stiffer springs belong in the back since there is more weight there? I would run a spring rate from anywhere of 250 to about 350.

I'm not saying those are ideal specs, but that has b een prooven to be the stock setup for 88s. I upped my rear spring rate to 175 when I put my heavier motor in . My car feels great on the street; I haven't taken it to a track yet though.
Keep in mind that there is never a 1:1 ratio of spring to wheel movement. The spring location and suspension design can change the leverage of the spring, thus changing the required spring rate.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 08-14-2005).]

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #196, 08-17-2005 11:29 AM
      Now I've seen everything from 175 to 400 lb/in springs for the rear.
Let me post this as a question. I drive my 88 GT alot around town, and on short trips up to 2 hours on the highway because like all of us, I love driving my fun little car. I do not race or take it to the drag strip, although I'd like to take it on a course some day. It has the stock 2.8 V6. What spring rate do yall suggest for coilover springs put over KYB struts?

As a second question, what spring rate would I want if I swapped the engine with the 3800 SC all else remaining equal?

Thanks in advance for the input, and +'s for good advice.

USFiero MSG #197, 09-21-2005 05:26 PM
      Monthly BUMP



1986GTV8 MSG #198, 09-28-2005 02:31 PM
      A bump as I am about to do this. Plus to keep on top.

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #199, 10-06-2005 10:51 AM
      Will an 8 inch spring be too small, for this coil over setup?

I found some for a decent price they are rated for 300# but are only 8 inch long.

Thanks!
JG


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #200, 10-06-2005 11:10 AM
      Never mind the answer is at the beginning of this page, so is 12 inch the right length?

Formula88 MSG #201, 10-06-2005 01:51 PM
      Yeah, 12" springs are what you want.

Also, a note about front coil overs. You can do it, but there's a problem. On the front, the spring is contained by the A-Arms. With a coil-over setup, the spring is contained by the shock/spring setup. That means the shock absorber mount now has all of the stress of both the shock AND the spring - with all the weight of the car being suppoted on the shock mount.

The Fiero control arms were designed for the loads to be distributed this way. According to Held Motorsports, the front control arms are too weak to be used with coil-overs, and I tend to agree. If you want to do front coil-overs, you need to use tubular control arms designed for coil-overs.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-06-2005).]

cheetah MSG #202, 10-11-2005 02:44 PM
      What is the difference if one has a 7-8" spring on the perch or a 12" without the perch if the spring rate is the same?

I can see that maybe the longer one allows the rear of the car to lift more on a bump, but it will compress down to the same amount, correct?

I have 7" 300# Eibachs on mine, and I am going to sell them. A little hard with my huge rear sway bar. I am looking at a 225#, and may cut the perch and go with longer replacements.

How low does the 12" allow? I might need to go to a 10" since my car is pretty low:

http://www.cheetahonline.com/camarodash.html



cheetah MSG #203, 10-12-2005 10:00 AM
      Also, what spring rates are everyone else using?



goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #204, 10-12-2005 10:18 AM
      The reason for the longer spring is so the body doesn't leave the spring.

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #205, 10-12-2005 12:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

Also, what spring rates are everyone else using?

The rates are pretty much about 300 Lbs

Kohburn MSG #206, 10-12-2005 01:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:

The reason for the longer spring is so the body doesn't leave the spring.

actually its to allow more suspension travel before coilbind


cheetah MSG #207, 10-13-2005 09:36 AM
      Does the longer spring compress less with the same weight, since the weight is divided among more coils? The distance between coils is the same with long and short springs, correct?

Either way, I am selling my 300# Eibachs. Too stiff with the rest of my suspension mods. They only have about 200 miles on them.

http://www.cheetahonline.com/coilover.jpg

Shows how they look before installation. I fabricated a boot also, to keep the struts clean.


Kohburn MSG #208, 10-13-2005 10:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

Does the longer spring compress less with the same weight, since the weight is divided among more coils? The distance between coils is the same with long and short springs, correct?

Either way, I am selling my 300# Eibachs. Too stiff with the rest of my suspension mods. They only have about 200 miles on them.

http://www.cheetahonline.com/coilover.jpg

Shows how they look before installation. I fabricated a boot also, to keep the struts clean.

spring rate is measured by the weight it takes to compress a specified distance - with two coils of the same spring rate but different length - one can take more compression before coil bind than the other, its a problem people were running into withthe really short springs and why they upgraded to 10 or 12 " coils... with the same spring rate the ride height is determined by the position of the spring perch


cheetah MSG #209, 10-13-2005 12:20 PM
      I am going to have to measure when I get home, to see if I need a 10 or 12". My car is very low, and I do not know if the 12's will allow this ride height.



Kohburn MSG #210, 10-13-2005 01:25 PM
      with the 12"s and the right length threaded sleeve - the sleeve sits all the way down by the knuckle - the stock spring perch has to be completely removed.

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #211, 12-06-2005 12:15 PM
      Shameless Bump!

flames4me (richlo65@hotmail.com) MSG #212, 12-06-2005 09:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:

Shameless Bump!

not so shameless... im getting more ideas for winter projects... not that i have a shortage tho, lol.



northeastfiero (carlgill@hotmail.com) MSG #213, 01-07-2006 07:06 PM
      Do you think a 400lb spring would be too stiff for a car with
a 3800sc and a 4t65hd in it
thanks


watts (dr.fiero@gmail.com) MSG #214, 01-08-2006 07:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by northeastfiero:
Do you think a 400lb spring would be too stiff for a car with
a 3800sc and a 4t65hd in it

I think "too stiff" is one of those "butt of the beholder" things. I have 400lb's in the back of mine. It's decidedly firm. Too stiff? Well... sometimes I think so... sometimes it's nice.

I'm thinking of going to something softer though.

Oh - V6, turbo, 5spd. So not so heavy. Yet a bit more than stock.


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #215, 01-17-2006 11:30 AM
      Most guys are using 300lbs. springs and a few are using 350lbs. its all in how you want the car to feel, a "solid sports car feel" go with 350 or a smooth ride go with 300lbs.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #216, 01-17-2006 12:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by watts:


I think "too stiff" is one of those "butt of the beholder" things. I have 400lb's in the back of mine. It's decidedly firm. Too stiff? Well... sometimes I think so... sometimes it's nice.

I'm thinking of going to something softer though.

Oh - V6, turbo, 5spd. So not so heavy. Yet a bit more than stock.

Too stiff can also be determined by the dampening characteristics of your struts.



Michaell Knight (fieroknight83@aim.com) MSG #217, 01-17-2006 01:35 PM
      I dont know much about this stuff but im interested in doing this. I have a 87 gt auto that i would also like to get the rear bumpsteer correction kit from held motorsports. Would these two mods be compatable which each other?

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #218, 03-09-2006 06:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Michaell Knight:

I dont know much about this stuff but im interested in doing this. I have a 87 gt auto that i would also like to get the rear bumpsteer correction kit from held motorsports. Would these two mods be compatable which each other?

Can you post a link to the Bumpsteer kit so I could look at it to see if it's compatable?

Matts85GT (mileskaren@rcn.com) MSG #219, 03-25-2006 01:17 AM
      Will the struts from any of the FWD cars work as well, especially with the removal of the spring perch?



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #220, 04-11-2006 06:33 AM
      I just noticed the question Matts85GT.

I don't see why the swap wouldn't work as long as the strut tube is the same diameter as the Fieros.

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #221, 04-29-2006 06:37 PM
      I have koni struts that came on the car. I ground away the spring perch and installed HELD coilover treaded collor and strut relocation addapter. The addapter is necesarry because I have an 88 cradle on my 86. My Springs are 12 inch 2.5 ID GroundControl Eibach 325 Lbs. The Coilovers is adjusted to a slightly lowered height from stock. I want to lower it further but I already have ran out of travel as it is . Driving overv a medium sized bump the top of the strutbody smacks into the spring retainer ring that is wended to the botom of the strut relocation addapters from Held Motorsport. The impact is jarring to say the least.

I wonder whether buying a new set of Koni Special (red) struts will solve the problem. Perhaps my perticular Konis are different (longer strut body) as they are older and not extrernaly adjustable as the new omes (8741-1063)

Is there anybody who has Konis that would be willing to measure the length of their Koni strut body? Maybe one of us is in the process of rebuilding has their struts off the car will take a tape measure to it hopefull . Please also mention if they can be adjusted while on the car and how old they are. Thanks in advance!

Also is anybody with konis struts and held addapters finding that the koni strut body is wider at the top causing it to not fit inside the upper spring perch of the held adapters. How is your ride?

Last but not least, I was looking at the koni .pdf files you can download from their site and noticed they offer a "Cut Your strut"
cartrages they offer. You are supposed to hacksaw your old strut body to the desired length and drill a hole in the bottom of the strut. Then you incert the Koni cartrage and secure with a ring and nut at the bottom of your old strut. You can buy the cartages with the stroke and damping range you specify. You can even have bump adjustment aswel as the more standard rebound adjustment. Has anybody done this or heard of anybody that has?


Thanks
Iwan

edited to add: that I posted this message as a new topic after I typed here, hopefully it will be noticed easier than when part of this 6 pager

[This message has been edited by fiero-iwan (edited 04-30-2006).]

slade1274 MSG #222, 05-23-2006 04:12 PM
      So, What are you guys using to ballance out the ride height in the front? I assume most of you will lower the rears a bit with the coil overs, but all the searching I did found only full sets of four lowering springs.... can you just by the fronts anywhere?

fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #223, 05-24-2006 01:02 AM
      A lot of guys are pulling the front spring and cutting it down to lower the front, should be a few threads on it around the Tech archives.

madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #224, 05-26-2006 03:07 PM
      bump

kamikaze7 (asoares@mecsolutions.com) MSG #225, 05-26-2006 03:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

Now I've seen everything from 175 to 400 lb/in springs for the rear.
Let me post this as a question. I drive my 88 GT alot around town, and on short trips up to 2 hours on the highway because like all of us, I love driving my fun little car. I do not race or take it to the drag strip, although I'd like to take it on a course some day. It has the stock 2.8 V6. What spring rate do yall suggest for coilover springs put over KYB struts?

As a second question, what spring rate would I want if I swapped the engine with the 3800 SC all else remaining equal?

Thanks in advance for the input, and +'s for good advice.


I'm considering this for my 88GT. Can someone please recommend a suggested spring rate for the 88GT rear?

Thanks.



fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #226, 05-26-2006 03:22 PM
      I have 325Lbs 12inch springs from groundcontrol. I chose these a little stiff for my upcomming L67 Swap.
Stiff ride with the 2.8 but not too stiff in my oppinion. That is untill my shocks bottom out, Jarring to say the least, but that is due to having the wrong shocks for the car. Al the springperch cutting for nothing,

oh well.... Anybody out there who has new Koni struts for their car willing to measure the strutbody length for me?
The strutbody I have now is 35cm long which leaves about 1 inch of travel before bottoming , on my lowered fiero.
I really need to make sure new koni's are short enough! Asking info on the koni's via a koni dealer but the communication is SLOOOOW...

Thanks
Iwan


fiero_silva (dynocompebmxer@hotmail.com) MSG #227, 06-29-2006 03:35 PM
      Bump

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #228, 06-30-2006 10:15 AM
      OK, so nobody was able to tel me the length of the koni strut body. Not even my dealer who supplies konis was able to get me a measurement. I finally bit the bullit and ordered a new set of koni red struts. They measured 33,5 cm in length. 1,5cm shorter than my old konis. Hopefully this wil be enough extra travel.
Pitty though the konis do not come supplied with bump rubbers.....

Maybe this will be of some use to somebody else wondering about the same thing...


Iwan


SLOWnSTEADY (keithschutte@aol.com) MSG #229, 06-30-2006 07:36 PM
      just wondering if anyone has gotten any coilovers through ebay... there is a person selling rear coilover "kits" just got mine for $41

(not the ACTUAL auction i won, i just got mine like 2 minutees ago... but here a link to the "kits")
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33582&item=8076657498

[This message has been edited by SLOWnSTEADY (edited 06-30-2006).]

James Bond 007 MSG #230, 06-30-2006 07:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SLOWnSTEADY:

just wondering if anyone has gotten any coilovers through ebay... there is a person selling rear coilover "kits" just got mine for $41

(not the ACTUAL auction i won, i just got mine like 2 minutees ago... but here a link to the "kits")

Thanks for the tip....A+



MclarenF1 (poopoomagoo1@hotmail.com) MSG #231, 07-13-2006 02:42 AM
      Would installing aftermarket springs in the front work for evening the height compared to the back, or could you install coilovers in the front without having to buy tubular control arms?

fiero_silva (dynocompebmxer@hotmail.com) MSG #232, 07-13-2006 10:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MclarenF1:

Would installing aftermarket springs in the front work for evening the height compared to the back, or could you install coilovers in the front without having to buy tubular control arms?


You can't do coil overs in the front without tubular control arms or some serious modifications. All the front requires to lower it though is shorter springs, and/or drop spindles.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #233, 07-13-2006 12:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SLOWnSTEADY:

just wondering if anyone has gotten any coilovers through ebay... there is a person selling rear coilover "kits" just got mine for $41

(not the ACTUAL auction i won, i just got mine like 2 minutees ago... but here a link to the "kits")
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33582&item=8076657498



SLOWnSTEADY: How did these work out for you? I had emailed the guy several times, but I didn't like the answers I was getting back so I stayed away from them.

Bob


Custom84cp (boostedfiero@yahoo.com) MSG #234, 07-13-2006 01:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:


SLOWnSTEADY: How did these work out for you? I had emailed the guy several times, but I didn't like the answers I was getting back so I stayed away from them.

Bob


Same here, I did not like there answers either, I asked for pic's to get a better idea of what they had and got no reply.
i'll spend my $ somewhere else.
Thanks.. Steve


Fiero1Fan (fiero1fan@fieros.eu) MSG #235, 08-05-2006 02:00 PM
      Bump to stay alive.

Emc209i (emc209i@yahoo.com) MSG #236, 08-06-2006 01:36 AM
      Beat Beat..... Beat beat...... Beat beat...... beat beat......... BEAT BEAT.........


Alive and well.

Hey everyone! I was here Again!!

-Paul


GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #237, 09-11-2006 10:01 PM
      from what i gathered reading over this thread twice is that the best set-up seems to be 2.04 diameter 7 inch sleeves with a 2 5/8 diameter 12 inch spring. Is this correct? After reviewing some websites for parts i cant seem to find one that sells just the sleeves and the part the spring actually sits on, they all seem to have the full kit with the hat and everything for $50+.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #238, 09-11-2006 10:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero1:

from what i gathered reading over this thread twice is that the best set-up seems to be 2.04 diameter 7 inch sleeves with a 2 5/8 diameter 12 inch spring. Is this correct? After reviewing some websites for parts i cant seem to find one that sells just the sleeves and the part the spring actually sits on, they all seem to have the full kit with the hat and everything for $50+.


A1 Racing (www.a1racing.com) will sell you several different diameters and lengths of sleeves. All but the perches marked for corvettes come with plastic tipped set screws to keep the perches in place (don't ask how I know ) and the guy on the phone was very helpful. I got the 2.08 inch diameter sleeves hoping that it would be easier to get over Koni's if / when I buy them some day - but I really don't think it will. For now, they slipped right over my KYB struts and I used some rubber orings to take up the slack - we'll see how it works.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #239, 09-29-2006 11:18 PM
      BUMP



jmbishop (jmbishop05@aol.com) MSG #240, 10-29-2006 08:52 PM
      bump

TrotFox (trotfox@gmail.com) MSG #241, 10-29-2006 09:20 PM
      Just a note that another option for lowering the front 1/2" or 1" is lowering balljoints. I recently installed the 1" models on my otherwise stock-height Formula and they seems to work great.

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

Next comes cutting the rear springs a touch. Need to ballance it out. } ; ]

Red 5spd Formula
Trot, the slowly-getting it there, fox...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #242, 11-29-2006 06:33 PM
      Fierohoho,
Great post! Two of us removed and disassembled the struts, modified the new struts with the grinder, assembled, installed and adjusted the ride height in under 45 minutes.
and I almost spent the money to buy the already made products.
Dave



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #243, 11-30-2006 01:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Fierohoho,
Great post! Two of us removed and disassembled the struts, modified the new struts with the grinder, assembled, installed and adjusted the ride height in under 45 minutes.
and I almost spent the money to buy the already made products.
Dave



Glad to hear it worked out so well, what spring rate did you go with?

Steve


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #244, 11-30-2006 06:21 AM
      I used a 12" 300in/lb spring rate with 7" sleeves.

Dave


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #245, 11-30-2006 11:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I used a 12" 300in/lb spring rate with 7" sleeves.

Dave



Thanks,

Steve


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #246, 11-30-2006 06:02 PM
      Here is a few pics of my completed shocks.



antinull.com MSG #247, 12-02-2006 05:53 PM
      nice'
and now i know more about shocks/struts lol


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #248, 12-12-2006 12:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I used a 12" 300in/lb spring rate with 7" sleeves.

Dave


And what do you think about the ride?


MclarenF1 (poopoomagoo1@hotmail.com) MSG #249, 03-03-2007 04:12 AM
      monthly bump!

fierofetish (nickcann@teleline.es) MSG #250, 03-03-2007 06:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MclarenF1:

monthly bump!

Hope that wasn't a reply to the previous post .
First time I have looked at this, and I have to commend the work done,excellent!! Fierohoho..you have a '+' from me sorry it is so late in coming
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 03-03-2007).]

vortecfiero (vortecfiero@hotmail.com) MSG #251, 03-03-2007 09:31 AM
      NICE POST !!
to finish this properly..
you need a 4 corner scale to weigh each corner at the same time and adjust it to try to get some sort of balance.
adjustable coil overs look cool but if they are not set up correctly you could upset the balance and create a real
problem with handleing, weight transfer and braking.



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #252, 03-04-2007 11:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofetish:

,excellent!! Fierohoho..you have a '+' from me sorry it is so late in coming
Nick



Thanks Nick


Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #253, 03-13-2007 11:47 AM
      bump..........so I can bookmark.

GODFATHER (sandroauto@sc.rr.com) MSG #254, 03-28-2007 10:02 PM
      bump

antinull.com MSG #255, 05-07-2007 04:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:

NICE POST !!
to finish this properly..
you need a 4 corner scale to weigh each corner at the same time and adjust it to try to get some sort of balance.
adjustable coil overs look cool but if they are not set up correctly you could upset the balance and create a real
problem with handleing, weight transfer and braking.



so would adjustments make each side weigh the same or something of the sort?

bmw guru how is the ride with those?


fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #256, 05-31-2007 09:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by antinull.com:


so would adjustments make each side weigh the same or something of the sort?



If say one rear strut is adjusted longer than the other that wheel would have more weight on it and that could effect the way the vehicle corners.

It also changes the weight on the other wheels, lowering some and increasing others.

I don't really understand the whole physics of it but when I used to pit crew for a friend, he would always park the car on the scales before a race and adjust the suspension to make the car hook-up better in the turns, (oval track).

It helps in left turn racing to have more weight on certain wheels and less on others.

Steve


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #257, 06-01-2007 10:51 PM
      It is not going to put enough weight change on any given side or wheel that any most common driver will feel just will look different on the way the car sets, unless you really over do it. Having the left side lower may help with turning left if you circle track raced it, I would say just go with a lower height tire it thats want your wanting, but for everyday driving not so much.

antinull.com MSG #258, 06-28-2007 02:01 PM
      anyone whos done this how is it working?
im thinking of putting on kyb rears and doing a coilover


Gto1966 (tripowergto1966@aol.com) MSG #259, 07-15-2007 12:17 AM
      Bump

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #260, 07-15-2007 06:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by antinull.com:

anyone whos done this how is it working?
im thinking of putting on kyb rears and doing a coilover


The ride is so much better than stock...at my end. The car seems to take dips in the road much smoother. I did a little research and for my 3800 I was going to use 275 springs, but that motor with the s/c or turbo weighs as much as my V8. So, I'll be running 300 springs in my 3800 conversion.
Dave



frankenfiero1 (just_a_guy2525@yahoo.com) MSG #261, 07-16-2007 02:10 AM
      I would LOVE to do this exact same thing, only COMPLETELY opposite. This would be a boon for my BAJA project! Is there a longer spring that I could use? I will be dropping my cradle and the front crossmember about 2.5-3" and I want to put a hitch on the rear. Over-all I am looking for 4" of lift, but more weight for the rear (Towing and going to off-set weight front to rear 40/60). I have a VERY unusual project and ask all for help. I just can't believe that NO ONE has thought about thefiero as a SERIOUS BAJA! I'm not talking about the folks from PISA, that is just a dress up kit. I'm talking a full out, beat up suspention test! I hope to do the "BAJA 500" in a few years!



chrisgtp (chrisgtp@gmail.com) MSG #262, 07-16-2007 05:54 AM
      where are you guys getting your springs from?

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #263, 07-16-2007 06:12 AM
      I get my springs from summitracing.com and jegs.com. The QA1 springs are inexpensive and well-made.


Frankenfiero1, a longer spring wont help you... there is not much travel with the Fiero struts. Set the strut so its in the middle of its travel and then build a spacer that fits between the strut top and the strut tower to get your desired ride height.


chrisgtp (chrisgtp@gmail.com) MSG #264, 07-18-2007 12:51 PM
      you dont remember a part number off hand do ya?

Jim Gregory (jimmy.gregory@attbi.com) MSG #265, 07-18-2007 01:21 PM
      If you want to set up your car completely level side-to-side, jack the front wheels off the ground with a small bottle jack or floor jack exactly in the middle of the front crossmember. This eliminates the possibility of a weak or saggy spring in the front influencing your adjustment. Adjust your rear coilovers for level in the back, and you're done.

Sleepy (sleepyblt@verizon.net) MSG #266, 07-18-2007 01:42 PM
      Speedwaymotors (.com), also has springs and sleeves. The 2" shock w/ coil over is heavily used in sprints and midgets. They primarily use aluminum threaded body shocks, but the springs are the same. Hypercoil, ARS, AFCO, QA1- are all reputable. I'd probably go with one of the powder coated ones like hypercoil over the chrome for durability, since rusting away is the only way you lose spring rate with a coil (unless you heat them). You can also get covers for these springs. They vary from velcro'd on nylon to foam lined vinyl. They are used on dirt cars to protect the shock body from rocks and increase seal life.

As far as the scaling and cross weight discussion, yes, adjusting the coil so that is raises that corner increases weight on that corner (preload). You've got a pretty good left/right balance in the fiero as is, so I'd just shoot for level ride height side to side. Your shock rates and difference in spring rate front to back will effect handling far more than the static heights will.

Here's my coil overs ;-) You can see the covers on the front in the 1st and 3rd pic







sjmaye MSG #267, 07-20-2007 05:27 AM
      Bump

[This message has been edited by sjmaye (edited 07-20-2007).]

kinboyatuwo (kinboyatuwo@yahoo.com) MSG #268, 07-23-2007 01:05 PM
      Is everyone using the ID of 2 5/8 (2.625) or using the 2 1/2 (2.50) because the 2.5 there are plenty, the 2.625 not so much!

sjmaye MSG #269, 07-24-2007 06:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kinboyatuwo:

Is everyone using the ID of 2 5/8 (2.625) or using the 2 1/2 (2.50) because the 2.5 there are plenty, the 2.625 not so much!



I may have missed it through all the pages of this thread, but what is the OD of the strut body? Just wondering how much clearance is being allowed between the sleeve and the strut body.


Jake_Dragon MSG #270, 07-24-2007 06:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

I would never buff the purch weld all the way off the strut.
Here is what I did on my coil overs
First thing I did was score the weld on the purch side all the way around the strut.
Then I cut the part of the purch that goes around the strut so the large back half could be removed by hitting it with a hammer.
This let the back half of the purch come off the strut and left all the weld on the strut. I then did the same thing to the front of the purch.
Then I took my sleave and slowly ground down the weld till it would slid over the strut, I didnt have to take that much off the weld and you cant see it when the sleave.
I am using Helds kit but the same would apply here.






Sleepy (sleepyblt@verizon.net) MSG #271, 07-25-2007 04:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kinboyatuwo:

Is everyone using the ID of 2 5/8 (2.625) or using the 2 1/2 (2.50) because the 2.5 there are plenty, the 2.625 not so much!


Either should work, as they are both used on the same sleeves- which mimic a 2" threaded body racing shock. Obviously, the 1 7/8" springs won't work, as they are intended for 1 5/8 "small body" racing shocks.


kinboyatuwo (kinboyatuwo@yahoo.com) MSG #272, 07-26-2007 12:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sleepy:


Either should work, as they are both used on the same sleeves- which mimic a 2" threaded body racing shock. Obviously, the 1 7/8" springs won't work, as they are intended for 1 5/8 "small body" racing shocks.



Thanks +1 for you!



PRFiero (romanp@miamidade.gov) MSG #273, 08-14-2007 08:26 PM
      I have an stoke 88 GT, how different is the installation for it? Is there some thing in particular that is different from other years? thanks

2002z28ssconv MSG #274, 08-15-2007 08:19 AM
      The ride is just as good as any other spring as long as you pick a conservative spring rate such as those mentioned above.

From the archives...
The part numbers I used are in this thread about half way down. I'll include the link for you in case you looking for more information.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-067796.html

***** These are from 2 years ago so forgive me if they're priced differently now. I did check the links and they were still accurate.***
Coleman
7" coilover kit (sleeves) $29.40 each
http://www.colemanracing.co...427&products_id=1525

Summit
10" 350# coilover spring $34.88 each
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.as p?autofilter=1&Ntt=HAL%2D10%2D350&N=0&part=HAL%2D10%2D350&autoview=sku&Ntk=KeywordSearch

KYB GR-2 Struts $59.88 each
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?a utofilter=1&Ntt=KYB%2D234005+&N=0&part=KYB%2D234005&autoview=sku&Ntk=KeywordSearch


If you want the front shocks too...
KYB Gas-a-Just Shocks $29.95 each
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?au tofilter=1&Ntt=KYB%2DKG4538&N=0&part=KYB%2DKG4538&autoview=sku&Ntk=KeywordSearch
***

Here is the work I did on our 88 w/ pics. It isn't coilover because I wanted to keep it stock (wife's car - her choice). But you'll be able to see what different on an 88 anyway. Mainly the sway bar. The coilover stuff is all the same. You might need to grind just a bit on the hub to allow for chamber adjustment. Ours had just barely enough play to almost make it to the minimum spec. We left it there.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-076850.html

--- Aslo, it looks like my webhost's server is down. $10 a year. I'm not gonna complain. The pics may be down now but they will be back.


Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #275, 09-09-2007 10:59 AM
      (getting ready to) bump.
New koni's with Held coilover kit



brandon87gt (traylor88@yahoo.com) MSG #276, 09-09-2007 06:49 PM
      Looks good Fie Ro! I think I am going to go ahead and order that same kit.

Hawk510 (wmayhawk@sbcglobal.net) MSG #277, 09-10-2007 01:05 AM
      Fie Ro do you have a part number for those Koni's ? Also what is the Held Coil-over kit number? Thanks

[This message has been edited by Hawk510 (edited 09-10-2007).]

Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #278, 09-10-2007 10:19 AM
      I have to look up the koni # at home tonight, but here is the coilover kit info:

Part #F001 Coil-over conversion kit for rear struts (84-87) $264.00

http://www.heldmotorsports....KitCarSuspension.htm


Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #279, 09-10-2007 10:21 AM
      direct link here: http://www.heldmotorsports....iero/CoilOverKit.htm

luckyfasteddie (luckyfasteddie@aol.com) MSG #280, 09-25-2007 09:50 PM
      I have followed this thread with great interest. I have a 88 Fiero engine in the back of my 39 Chevy pickup ratrod. my unit weighs 100lbs in front and 1950 in the back -pretty close to a real Fiero I think. I started with 350# springs and when loaded they actually deflected i had to go to 450# to loose the deflection. My question to you guys is this , have you been able to get a sight on your springs to see if they are deflecting and if they are not why were mine ,I wonder. My struts also seem to be bottoming outwhen I hit a sharp bump I have a factory manuel and it shows the original spring is under tension when it is installed and nobody seems to be addressing this springtension factor with the coil overs.The top of my spring and the strut rod are bolted /attached directly to my strut tower. I did not use any of the original parts.This arrangement gives me no movement allowance at the point where the strut rod attaches.Got to do some more fine tuniing here as ths bumpthingie is quite jarring and feels like it could be stressing things.Any comments appreciated LFE

jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #281, 12-08-2007 08:16 AM
      Just a point of information for some folks. Yesterday I was working on some other things in the shop and I saw my rear stock springs laying on the floor off the race car. Now I say "stock" because they are factory, but they are factory WS6 springs and, IIRC, supposedly the highest rate available from the factory based on the tag on the spring.

I made a little fixture in the press to see how heavy the springs were. When I was done, they ended up measuring about 170#/in deflection. I thought that was pretty light so I went to my spare parts bin and rummaged around and found another set of stock rear springs. I don't know what their spring number was and they are, most likely, off an '84 4 cyl/auto car. They measured at 145#/in deflection.

I bring this up because in parts of the thread people are talking about spring rates anywhere from 200 to 300 pounds, so people have an idea of what the stock springs actually were. When we did this conversion on the roadster a couple years ago, we went with 250# springs just on a guess because of the small block Chevy in the back. It is not too stiff, I don't think. I intend to run about 275# or 300# springs in the rear of the race car, with the stock front WS6 springs cut one coil and a spring rubber in each side, which should stiffen the front springs up by about 30% or so, give or take.

John Stricker


FieroGT42 (fierogt42@gmail.com) MSG #282, 12-19-2007 09:39 PM
      Sooooo... logically, 7 in threaded collars would allow more height adjustment? Most places ahve the same price for 5" or 7".

And 12" springs allow stock height, 10" springs are better for a moderate drop but still can be adjusted to stock ride height with 7" collars... or not? I want to make sure I know exactly what I need to get.

And are these in pairs or single wheel kits...? Because they only show parts for a single wheel on most websites, but I found one that said it was for a pair of wheels for about the same price as everywhere else.

[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 12-19-2007).]

shermdizzle (run4itmarte@yahoo.com) MSG #283, 12-19-2007 11:21 PM
      i don't wanna sound stupid

but using this method, how would i go about lowering the car about an inch or 2

and also, is this as good as buying a new coil-over kit?


FieroGT42 (fierogt42@gmail.com) MSG #284, 12-20-2007 12:08 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 03-16-2011).]

jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #285, 12-20-2007 08:26 AM
      Just got done converting the Koni's on the race car.

7" tubes, made to fit over 2" OD shock bodies.
12" Carrera 250# Springs.
I have over 2" of drop available to me with just the springs touching and unloaded. Total drop would probably be over 3" before the nuts got close to the base, maybe more.

Cut the perches off as close as comfortable with plasma cutter. Chucked the body in the lathe and turned the rest of the perch off. Turned the shock body top nut down so it was 2.050" which made took a few layers of paint off the body, maybe a little more than that. For those not familiar, the upper end of the Koni body is larger than the bottom where it bolts to the knuckle, and the nut that holds the seal in is larger yet. If you simply bore the tube out it would be very thin.

As it was, after getting the body to 2.050", the tubes would not slip over so I threw the tubes in the oven at 400F for an hour and then they did just drop over fine. Anything over about 400 is going to cause discoloring of whatever color the tube is and if they're not high quality, it might happen at a lower temperature.

All of my parts came from Speedway Motors. They cost a little more, but if you buy more than $400 total, and I needed other stuff, shipping is free and they are overnight to me UPS Ground. They also only care top quality stuff.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroGT42:

Sooooo... logically, 7 in threaded collars would allow more height adjustment? Most places ahve the same price for 5" or 7".

And 12" springs allow stock height, 10" springs are better for a moderate drop but still can be adjusted to stock ride height with 7" collars... or not? I want to make sure I know exactly what I need to get.

And are these in pairs or single wheel kits...? Because they only show parts for a single wheel on most websites, but I found one that said it was for a pair of wheels for about the same price as everywhere else.





shermdizzle (run4itmarte@yahoo.com) MSG #286, 12-23-2007 04:59 PM
      so, how would i go about making an adjustable coilover? thats what i really wanna know.....how about an adjustable coilover-able to drop it 3 inches?

jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #287, 12-23-2007 06:35 PM
      Just do what's outlined in this thread. Of course you're only going to have about 3 inches of suspension travel, but it's your car.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by shermdizzle:

so, how would i go about making an adjustable coilover? thats what i really wanna know.....how about an adjustable coilover-able to drop it 3 inches?




shermdizzle (run4itmarte@yahoo.com) MSG #288, 12-23-2007 10:38 PM
      so how big of a sleeve/ring would i need to use to get that much of a drop?

and also, i heard that aluminum adjustable coilover's are bad, because the aluminum will seize together, is that so with this mod?

and one last thing-how do you adjust the height-with an allen wrench?


jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #289, 12-23-2007 11:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shermdizzle:

so how big of a sleeve/ring would i need to use to get that much of a drop?


2" ID, 7" long sleeve.

 
quote
Originally posted by shermdizzle:
and also, i heard that aluminum adjustable coilover's are bad, because the aluminum will seize together, is that so with this mod?


So what else would you like to use? Any metal can seize, aluminum is no different.

 
quote
Originally posted by shermdizzle:
and one last thing-how do you adjust the height-with an allen wrench?


The allen screw is to lock the setting once you get it where you want it. You need to look at the pictures in this thread and most of your questions will be answered.

John Stricker


shermdizzle (run4itmarte@yahoo.com) MSG #290, 12-24-2007 12:28 AM
      hey mr stricker, believe it or not, everyone learns differently

i am more of a visual/listener-show me and tell me how to do it-i need to actually see the whole process and see how to do everything-this is why i am asking so many questions

i have gone through this post more than you will know, and i'm still confused, thats why i'm asking so many questions

i appreciate your answers and your help, but it doesn't really seem like you are being to patient, rather giving me short "LOOK, STUPID, HERES THE ANSWER" answers

i know that all metal seizes, i have heard that this is especially so with the aluminum, when the dirt and grime from driving gets in there it becomes next to impossible to adjust (see, i did my homework) so, what i meant to ask, is: if this does tend to sieze or get stuck more than *anything* else ( i say anything, because i don't know what other type of metal is used on coil-overs or sleeves)what is it, where can i get it. if it is just as likely to seize as anything else, what can i use to prevent it from seizing/gettin crap stuck in it

i'm sorry for not being clear enough


shermdizzle (run4itmarte@yahoo.com) MSG #291, 12-24-2007 12:30 AM
      and also, how adjustable would the height be with the 7" sleeve

what i mean to say here, is how much will i be able to drop it/lift it?



shermdizzle (run4itmarte@yahoo.com) MSG #292, 12-24-2007 05:22 PM
      ?

fffttt1 (racer-ray@charter.net) MSG #293, 12-24-2007 11:26 PM
      I built my own coil overs using Monroe Sensi Trak struts and the usual aluminum sleeves, QA1 12" coils etc. They were easy to build, and a little research on stock spring rates led me to use 250 lb/in. springs. They seem to be just right for the stock 2.8 V6 with a front sway bar mounted @ the rear. I thought of switching to 300 lb/in. springs just 'cause everyone seems to use them, but I think that they would "over power" the rebound on the Monroe struts. I'm happy with what I've built!!
Thanks, Ray.


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #294, 01-24-2008 12:17 AM
      Bump for the newbie

The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #295, 01-30-2008 04:49 PM
      Ok I am planning on doing this for my wife's car. I have 5 inch threaded collars that I got pretty much for free as I am selling the struts/springs they came on for more than what I paid for the struts, springs and collars. Now I plan on running 300lbs springs. I think I have 325lbs springs on my IMSA Held set-up and they ride nice. My problem is what struts to get. I hear that the KYB's are that great. But what else is there? I know of the Koni's. I have them on the IMSA Held set-up on my IMSA and they need a bigger diameter collar. Or is that just on the adjustables? Any advice is welcomed and appreciated.



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #296, 01-30-2008 06:13 PM
      For 88 spring rates, here is the most accurate information:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-2-054238.html
All 88 front springs: 205.5 lbs/in
All 88 rear springs: 142.7 lbs/in
This is based off the GM manufacturing prints for the springs as well as measurements taken by others. See the link above.

 
quote
Originally posted by luckyfasteddie:
I have followed this thread with great interest. I have a 88 Fiero engine in the back of my 39 Chevy pickup ratrod. my unit weighs 100lbs in front and 1950 in the back -pretty close to a real Fiero I think


I assume you mean 1000 lb front weight?
Anyway, 1950 lbs rear axle weight is much heavier rear weight than a stock Fiero. An 88 Fiero is around 1550 rear 1150 front. Mine with a 3.4 DOHC V6 weighed 1650 rear. It's a heavier engine than the stock 88 Fiero engine. With that extra 400 lbs over the rear its no surprise you ha to up the spring rate! Stock 88 Fiero rear spring rate is 142lb/in.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 01-30-2008).]

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #297, 01-30-2008 06:22 PM
      Is anyone making these for sale? Just wondering since I have all the rear end out of my Formula and I need new struts anyway. I'm just wondering what the price difference is.

Thanks!


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #298, 01-30-2008 06:28 PM
      Held and WCF sell kits specifically for the Fiero. I think there are a few other vendors as well.

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #299, 01-30-2008 09:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

Held and WCF sell kits specifically for the Fiero. I think there are a few other vendors as well.


Thanks, but I was looking for somone who is building one of these cheaper alternatives - and selling it cheaper than Held and WCF. Even buying all the parts together would help me out. I never have enough time to get these things together.


jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #300, 01-30-2008 10:12 PM
      Send me some struts and I'll cut/turn the perches off for you and send them back to you. All it will cost you is the shipping.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:


Thanks, but I was looking for somone who is building one of these cheaper alternatives - and selling it cheaper than Held and WCF. Even buying all the parts together would help me out. I never have enough time to get these things together.




Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #301, 01-31-2008 07:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

Send me some struts and I'll cut/turn the perches off for you and send them back to you. All it will cost you is the shipping.

John Stricker


I imagine shipping costs will take the total price up to where the other finished coilovers are, but if I get in a pinch, I'll let you know.

You da man, John! Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 01-31-2008).]

jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #302, 01-31-2008 08:47 AM
      Probably not, if you want new struts I could probably just pick up what you wanted, cut off the perches, and then ship them to you. Depends on what you want, it would save shipping at least ONE way. I've been happy with several brands. In my order of preference, they are Koni's, KYB, then Sensatrac's. Not surprisingly, that's also the order of pricing, most expensive to least expensive. PM me if you want to work this out. The Konis need a little more machining on the body and the 2" ID tubes have to be heated to almost 450 to slip over the belled top of the struts, but they DID go over the Koni's on the race car. It did take the anodized finish off of the sleeves though.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:


I imagine shipping costs will take the total price up to where the other finished coilovers are, but if I get in a pinch, I'll let you know.

You da man, John! Thanks!





jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #303, 01-31-2008 08:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shermdizzle:

i appreciate your answers and your help, but it doesn't really seem like you are being to patient, rather giving me short "LOOK, STUPID, HERES THE ANSWER" answers

i know that all metal seizes, i have heard that this is especially so with the aluminum, when the dirt and grime from driving gets in there it becomes next to impossible to adjust (see, i did my homework) so, what i meant to ask, is: if this does tend to sieze or get stuck more than *anything* else ( i say anything, because i don't know what other type of metal is used on coil-overs or sleeves)what is it, where can i get it. if it is just as likely to seize as anything else, what can i use to prevent it from seizing/gettin crap stuck in it

i'm sorry for not being clear enough



I also apologize for seeming to be a little short with you. I don't know of any steel sleeves being made and that would really be the only other material. You have to remember that it's not something you're going to normally change every day on a STREET car. It does get adjusted regularly on a race car to put wedge in the car, but normally once you set your ride height on a street car, you leave it alone. The threads are fairly coarse and while I'm sure it CAN seize, I haven't had one do it to me yet.

There are a lot of pictures in this thread and I don't know what else one could add to it, but if there is a particular step in the process you're unclear of, post it and I'm sure that someone can either post a picture or point you to one in the thread that you might have missed.

No matter what material, to drop the car 3" you are taking about 50% of the travel out of your strut and that translates into leaving about 3" of suspension travel before bottoming. It's also going to make the car extremely difficult to drive on the street through dips and over speed bumps, so be aware of that as well. You're also going to have to lower the front end a like amount, naturally, or the car will ride WAY nose high. a 3" drop on springs alone means some lowering springs (and I don't know of any of those that will give you 3" of drop) or cutting at least 2 1/2 coils off your front springs. That will put the suspension nearly on the front bump stops as well so they will need to be trimmed or removed.

It's your car, make it to your desire, but just consider the practicality of what you're doing while youre at it.

John Stricker



Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #304, 01-31-2008 10:02 AM
      Thanks, John. I will check out the struts and other parts I need and get back to you. I also need to look this thread over a little closer to get a better understanding of how these go together - and where to get the other parts needed.

I want to do this one the 84 V8 Fino for sure, but I'm not sure if it is worth it on the 88 Formula because I may be putting it up for sale to fund the Fino improvements.

Thanks again!


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #305, 01-31-2008 12:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:


Thanks, but I was looking for somone who is building one of these cheaper alternatives - and selling it cheaper than Held and WCF. Even buying all the parts together would help me out. I never have enough time to get these things together.



If you wanted to and were willing to drive to Pa. I could help you out making them. All you would need was the sleves and springs. I know how to do it just not which struts are best. Guess I will go with the koni's



jstricker (jstricke@rwisp.com) MSG #306, 01-31-2008 01:27 PM
      Just so you know, to use the 2" ID sleeves you almost MUST have a lathe to turn the tops down on the struts, the Koni's are belled at the top.

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by The_Stickman2:
If you wanted to and were willing to drive to Pa. I could help you out making them. All you would need was the sleves and springs. I know how to do it just not which struts are best. Guess I will go with the koni's






The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #307, 02-01-2008 12:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

Just so you know, to use the 2" ID sleeves you almost MUST have a lathe to turn the tops down on the struts, the Koni's are belled at the top.

John Stricker


Yea i kinda knew that. I have a set on my IMSA but was hoping thye changed that. Guess not.


NashvilleFiero MSG #308, 05-03-2008 05:20 PM
      The rubber belt that he used can be purchased at Tractor Supply. I saw it there.



NashvilleFiero MSG #309, 05-08-2008 04:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:

At this point you now have the spring removed by someone else unless you had the correct equipment/skills to do it yourself.

I tried using an impact with a 21mm socket to remove the top nut that holds the upper retainer plate to the strut shaft, I then had to use a 21mm wrench on the nut and a 10mm wrench on the shaft to remove the nut as the shaft spun with the impact.


The next pic shows the coil retainer "A" and upper spring perch "B" along with 2 washers and the 21mm nut.

The small bushing on the right is actually the center of the dust boot, it had seperated from the boot.


The next pic shows the spring, rubber cushion from the upper spring perch and the dust boot, all of which are no longer needed.


The next pic shows the bare strut.

You need to remove the lower spring perch from the tube and grind the top of the strut to the same diameter as the tube.

Just Dremel, file or grind the weld away to remove the perch, try not to put too much heat into the tube just to be safe and don't grind a hole through the side of the tube.


Don't you need a spring compressor? Isn't that spring a loaded gun at this point?
Brit



falcon_ca (luc_giguere@hotmail.com) MSG #310, 05-10-2008 10:44 PM
      Those rusted things are small springs compressors people installe to lower their car without changing or even removing the springs.

The springs were probably already enough compressed by those to avoid the need to use a spring compressor here.



fierohoho (fierohoho@gmail.com) MSG #311, 05-11-2008 12:06 AM
      You are correct, to play it safe once you get the struts out take them to a service station and pay a couple bucks to have them taken apart safely.

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #312, 06-07-2008 12:54 PM
      What part number for the Sensa-Tracs? The ones I just looked at (for 84 Fiero) could not be modified for use. It had a feature at the end that couldn't be removed that was larger than the strut diameter.

Bob


sjmaye MSG #313, 06-07-2008 05:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

For 88 spring rates, here is the most accurate information:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-2-054238.html
All 88 front springs: 205.5 lbs/in
All 88 rear springs: 142.7 lbs/in
This is based off the GM manufacturing prints for the springs as well as measurements taken by others. See the link above.



If stock rear springs for a v6 are 142lb/in why are many looking for 250lb/in?

I just want some lowered and ride stiffness similar to stock.



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #314, 06-07-2008 07:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:


If stock rear springs for a v6 are 142lb/in why are many looking for 250lb/in?

I just want some lowered and ride stiffness similar to stock.


I'm going to use 300# QA1's because I no longer have the stock drivetrain. I have a 4.0 Aurora with the boat anchor sized 4L80E.

Bob


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #315, 06-08-2008 08:08 PM
      bump for a part number...

sjmaye MSG #316, 06-10-2008 04:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:


If stock rear springs for a v6 are 142lb/in why are many looking for 250lb/in?

I just want some lowered and ride stiffness similar to stock.


Bump. Can someone explain? Seems 250# springs would be stiff as compared to stock.

[This message has been edited by sjmaye (edited 06-10-2008).]

ICouldaBeenAV8 (donotbotherspamming@gmail.com) MSG #317, 06-10-2008 02:43 PM
      Imagine a stock spring with a rate of 150 lbs./in. of compression. Say total movement of the suspension is maximum 6 in. in full compression. That would be 900 lbs. of force to compress the suspension fully as designed. If you lower the car 2 in. you are left with 4 in. of total movement before fully compressed. To prevent the suspension from bottoming out prematurely, you would want at least 900 lbs. force to still be required to fully compress the springs. So your new springs would probably be rated at 225 lbs./in. as a starting point. Your street ride is compromised to some degree no if ands or butts. Spring makers have some tricks to moderate this but they increase cost and I doubt that is done for Fiero springs. We are after all, the cheapest hobby car owners in the known universe.

sjmaye MSG #318, 06-10-2008 07:33 PM
      I understand. Thanks for the explanation!

sjmaye MSG #319, 07-20-2008 02:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:

I tried using an impact with a 21mm socket to remove the top nut that holds the upper retainer plate to the strut shaft, I then had to use a 21mm wrench on the nut and a 10mm wrench on the shaft to remove the nut as the shaft spun with the impact.




Anyone else have problems getting this nut to break free?



sjmaye MSG #320, 07-20-2008 03:51 PM
      Finally! PB Blaster, impact wrench, elbow grease. Finally got it.

Madscanner MSG #321, 08-01-2008 08:56 AM
      Hi All

I'm just starting my conversion and, as I expected, I'm running into issues with parts.

The only sleeves I can get with the right ID for the struts are 6" long.

What I'm wondering, then, is whether to go with a 10" spring or a 12" spring, as most of the combos seem to be 5" sleeve/12" spring or 7" sleeve/10" spring...


Car is a stock '85 SE 2M6.



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #322, 08-02-2008 06:57 AM
     
 
quote
I'm just starting my conversion and, as I expected, I'm running into issues with parts.

The only sleeves I can get with the right ID for the struts are 6" long.

What I'm wondering, then, is whether to go with a 10" spring or a 12" spring, as most of the combos seem to be 5" sleeve/12" spring or 7" sleeve/10" spring...


What struts are you using??? I'm using KYB struts from Summit with the 7" x 2"id Monroe style perches from Speedway Motors. Springs are 12" 300# QA1s also from Summit. I just purchased all of the pieces within the last 6 weeks, so it should be available.

Bob


Madscanner MSG #323, 08-04-2008 02:06 PM
      Hi Bob

I'm using Monroes as my base - it's what I could get (here in the UK) at a reasonable price.

The sleeves were an impossibly tight fit - wouldn't go on until I stripped the paint off the struts!



Madscanner MSG #324, 08-15-2008 01:33 PM
      Hiya

Looking for any useful suggestions for a problem with my DIY coilovers.

The fit of the sleeves on the struts is so tight that I had to strip the paint in order to get them to slide on.



I then tried sliding a sleeve on - it went most of the way down without any problem, then stuck, as you can see in the 2nd picture. And I do mean STUCK - I didn't use any force putting it on, but I can't now get it off (so that I can file the strut down slightly for more clearance).



I've tried getting some silicone spray lubricant in behind the sleeve, but no luck.

I'm reluctant to hammer downward (or upwards) on the locking rings in case I ruin the alloy threads.

Any ideas?



FieroBobo (rryans@kean.edu) MSG #325, 08-15-2008 01:53 PM
      If the sleeve is stuck, try heating the sleeve with either a plumber propane torch, or perhaps a hair dryer.

The aluminum sleeve will expand faster and more that the steel strut. And the sleeve should loosen up to the point where you can tap it off with a soft faced mallet, or maybe pull it off with a leather glove.

I hope this proves helpful.

~Bob



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #326, 08-15-2008 04:02 PM
      For that matter, heat the sleeve and slide it on.

Bob


Madscanner MSG #327, 08-15-2008 07:12 PM
      Thanks - will give it a try.

I'll try to get it off and then prep the barrel of the strut a bit more.

I have realised that where the part number is stamped into the barrel, the edges of the characters are raised slightly - just enough to reduce the clearance. If I can get the sleeve off, I can file down the edges, then the sleeve should slide right down.

Ciao!



Gto1966 (tripowergto1966@aol.com) MSG #328, 08-15-2008 07:49 PM
      Is the inside of your sleeve smooth? Mine had a ridge I had to grind down.

Madscanner MSG #329, 08-16-2008 05:04 AM
      Hi

The other sleeve is smooth so, making an assumption here, the stuck one is OK.

I've got a few suggestions and, hopefully, I'll have some time over the weekend to sort it out.

Ciao!



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #330, 08-16-2008 07:03 AM
      A few pics from mine:
Hats during cleaning:


The old strut, minus the spring, on refurbed suspension, measuring axle length:


Installed:


Different view and one of the holes I need to fix:


I used 7" perches for Monroe shocks from Speedway and KYB struts and QA1 300#, 12" springs from Summit.

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 08-16-2008).]

Madscanner MSG #331, 08-19-2008 06:39 PM
      Hi All

Got the sleeve back off the strut - used the propane torch method.

Will now take the circumferance of the strut down slightly, then should be good to go!

Ciao!



Joseph Upson (j.j.upson@worldnet.att.net) MSG #332, 08-28-2008 08:26 PM
      A little off topic, but what was the reason front coil overs are not practical? I was thinking you could box in the lower control arm from a picture but I'm nowhere near a car that I could look at for other possible clearance problems that would need to be dealt with.

Madscanner MSG #333, 08-29-2008 06:08 AM
      Check out Formula88's post at the beginning of page 6...



whodeanie (dean@glassworksga.com) MSG #334, 08-29-2008 12:49 PM
      has anyone used the coil-over kit from Fiero addiction?
it looks the same as held just not quite as much money.
I would like to get somthing ordered soon so any feedback would be great.
here is the link to what I am talking about
http://www.fieroaddiction.c...20_22&products_id=56


Madscanner MSG #335, 08-29-2008 04:41 PM
      Slghtly O/t, but I've noticed that the kits available Stateside have a single adjusting ring with grub screws to lock, whereas all of the kits I've seen over here use an adjusting ring and a lock ring.

Comments, e.g. what is the likelihood of two rings locked slipping against the likelihood of the grub screws damaging the threads on the sleeves?

Interested in your views.



Joseph Upson (j.j.upson@worldnet.att.net) MSG #336, 08-29-2008 05:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Madscanner:

Check out Formula88's post at the beginning of page 6...



That's my reason for considering boxing them in to make them stronger to counter any inherit flexibility.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #337, 08-29-2008 05:57 PM
      Is there really any benefit to having the shock inboard to the spring? It seems all you would need is the adjustable collar underneath, between the a-arm and the spring, and leave the shock to the side. - Boxing the a-arm was my first thought, though.

Bob


Madscanner MSG #338, 09-19-2008 08:34 AM
      Back from holiday, and have taken the spring seat off the second strut and put the sleeve on it. Just need to buy some springs now.



I have decided to buy proper strut tops, rather than modify the originals - it's purely an esthetic thing. Haven't decided yet whether to them from West Coast Fiero or Fiero Addiction - does anyone else make them?



Madscanner MSG #339, 10-03-2008 02:28 PM
      Hi All.

I ordered my strut tops today, from Fiero Addiction, so will see how long it takes to get them and, in the interim, will order some springs.


Ciao!


buds MSG #340, 10-03-2008 03:55 PM
      Built mine a while ago thanks to this thread.



Madscanner MSG #341, 11-15-2008 03:26 AM
      Well, I finally got around to buying both the strut tops, from Fiero Addiction, and the springs, from Faulkners.

As I had to strip the paint from the strut barrels in order to get the sleeves on, I now need to re-paint them. Once that is done, all I have to do is find the time to swap them in, when it isn't dark and when it isn't raining... :lol:

The (nearly finished) struts.



JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #342, 11-17-2008 04:12 PM
      Did this conversion to my new KYB struts a couple weeks ago. this thread made it easy and cheep thanks

thebaron (eric.murray@tekkoshocon.com) MSG #343, 11-20-2008 11:24 AM
      How would Coil-over conversion for an FWD x-body/a-body work for front and rears? Would the rear be strong enoughI know that fiero shocks and struts will work on my x-11 and a few members have done that to lower their car several inches. Wondered what would be better for handling?

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #344, 11-20-2008 01:37 PM
      Okayyyy....

So I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with info and options.

I have an 86 SE with a 3800 SC manual 4spd in it. I'm looking to make some coil overs... I currently have KYB's in the rear.

What I'm confused with is the length of threaded collar to buy, length of spring, number of coils, and spring rate for my set up...

I want to do this right the first time. Anybody with lots of experience who wants to give me a few pointers, please let me know. I've read a lot in this thread about guys with 350 swaps, and stock motors, and people who have posted what they've done, but not entirely too much on how it worked out for them, or if thjey would have gone with another spring rate if they did it a second time etc. Thanks!


Fiero2m8 MSG #345, 11-20-2008 05:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:
Okayyyy....
So I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with info and options.
Thanks!


Chris,

Buy the pieces you need to simulate what I bought from Held since that setup is proved to work and works very well on my Roadster.

http://www.heldmotorsports....iero/CoilOverKit.htm

I used 350lbs and like them, from what I know about your car 300's should be just right for you.
Get a 5" inch threaded collar and the longest springs you can fit - with your ride height 10-12" length range would be best IMHO.

Ryan



doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #346, 11-21-2008 10:04 AM
      Thanks for the suggestion ryan, thats not a bad idea.


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #347, 01-24-2009 03:38 PM
      What spring rate you guys recommand for a for a 88GT with a Shelby S1 and a 4t80. I am looking for about an inch drop in the rear. So what would I need to make this happen?

Thanks,
Tim


Madscanner MSG #348, 01-26-2009 07:57 AM
      Hi Folks

Finally finished my conversion over the weekend.


How it looked when I started


Old and new side by side


New strut in place.

After I finished the job,I went out looking for potholes, sleeping policemen, and cats eyes, and was really pleased with the results. Although the suspension still needs to be properly set up front and rear, I was surprised by how smooth the ride was - I had been worried that the 375lb springs would be too stiff, but that isn't the case at all. Interestingly, there was a minor, but obvious difference in the angle of the struts at the knuckles when I started (they are much closer to the same angle now).

I initially set the height by eye before installing the struts and am about 1cm too high (compared to standard) so need to drop them a bit, next time I'm at home and it isn't dark and it isn't raining...

Ciao!



Duke_On_Fire (tyguyski@gmail.com) MSG #349, 02-16-2009 07:45 AM
      im thinking of doing this when i get some money. Nice writeup.
-Subscribed-


Tha Driver MSG #350, 02-16-2009 02:28 PM
      I'm STILL waiting for someone who did this with the cheaper sleeves from a kit for another car to tell us what works. Has anyone actually done this???
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"


FieroFanatic13 (gcrasmu@yahoo.com) MSG #351, 02-16-2009 05:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

I'm STILL waiting for someone who did this with the cheaper sleeves from a kit for another car to tell us what works. Has anyone actually done this???
Paul
aka "Tha Driver"



That makes two of us. I keep seeing the "Civic" kits on e-bay and wondering...


tomanyfieros (tomanyfieros@aol.com) MSG #352, 03-01-2009 08:31 AM
      bump

Tha Driver MSG #353, 03-20-2009 10:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroFanatic13:
That makes two of us. I keep seeing the "Civic" kits on e-bay and wondering...

OK, maybe a little more useful info:
There was a used set on egay recently that the guy said was for a "92 93 94 95 Honda Civic Hatchback". I asked him & he said the inside diameter was 2 1/2", which if I'm not mistaken (I haven't re-checked) will fit our struts. Of course, as usual the idiots at egay bid more for these than a new set goes for so I didn't bid.
I still have not heard back from any of the several venders that I've contacted. I doubt they even have the item in stock...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

DO NOT TOUCH THE TREUM!



n_tensetuning (n_tensetuning@yahoo.com) MSG #354, 03-30-2009 04:36 PM
      Thought this link might help everyone out as well.

This is the install procedure from FieroAddiction on their Rear Coilover Kit for the Fiero

http://www.fieroaddiction.com/coil-over.html
Thanks
Dave M.


GTCONVERSION (jscsobbing@aol.com) MSG #355, 04-13-2009 01:25 PM
      I just picked up a set of 2 sleeves and nuts with some hats for 10.00 from a guy at work.I have the kyb rears these are just over the 2inch id i was reading about will these still be ok?

If so i just need to pick up some springs and i can tear it down next weekend
Also they are 5 1/2 long i was planning on buying some 12inch 350 springs as this is going in a v8 car
Thanks for any help.

[This message has been edited by GTCONVERSION (edited 04-13-2009).]

Fiero_Adam MSG #356, 04-13-2009 11:03 PM
      GT, the sleeves I got were a larger diameter at the top and bottom, but tapered in and were narrower in most of the sleeve. I can't tell from your picture if yours are the same ID all the way through or not.

On a related note, has anyone else that has used 300 lb springs or higher had problems with the springs not being secure when adjusting the collar down to get a nice ride height? What I mean is, to get the ride height to sit lower than stock, I have to crank down the adjusting collars, which causes the springs to not sit against the upper strut mounts (with the car in the air, of course). I know that the springs should stay in place with normal driving, but the off chance of hitting a big bump, pothole, dip, etc. worries me about the spring falling away from the strut mount and not seating correctly, not to mention the big 'clunk' it would make.


GTCONVERSION (jscsobbing@aol.com) MSG #357, 04-14-2009 03:26 AM
      they are the same size all the way .I may just buy the wcf kit so i know it will work correct.

Riddick85 MSG #358, 04-17-2009 08:29 PM
      By using the 12" spring I can see you get more adjustable range but if you adjusted it to near the bottom wouldn't that lower the car like 3-4"? It seems a little much. I have read through this whole thing but I still have a question that wasn't exactly covered.

It seems where the adjuster is at is about where the spring perch is normally at in most of the finished pics. Couldn't you keep the perch, get a shorter adjuster sleeve, and get a 8" or 10" spring? I know it would be easier to get coil bind that way but as long as you aren't driving crazy it should be fine I think.

I know I could be way wrong but that is why I am asking and not just doing. I just want an easy, safe way to lower the car about an inch to get rid of the big gap in the wheel wells.


Madscanner MSG #359, 05-16-2009 08:50 AM
      The final result - front and rear lowered...



rourke_87_T-Top (rourke_r@hotmail.com) MSG #360, 05-22-2009 01:27 PM
      Ground-Control coilover thread. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/099448.html

couldahadaV8 MSG #361, 08-31-2009 10:03 AM
      I just finished making my coilovers and have a serious problem with them. I will post some pictures later of how I cut off the spring perch in the lathe, since it is mentioned as a way to do it but not shown.

What I used are Monroe struts, cheap "e-bay" type threaded collars, and Summit Racing's QA1 springs that are 12" long and 325 lbs.in (this car has a SBC with a 4T65E-HD so it is heavier than stock). This car is not running yet, so I don't know how it is on the road.

Here is the problem. The car initially sat way too high; it has a Dino body on it and there was about 4" of clearance above the rear tire. With the coilovers I lowered it down maybe 2 1/2" or so; I didn't take an initial measurement so I'm not exactly sure how much. The lowest part of the frame cradle is now about 3 1/2" from the ground. This is too low for me, and too low for the poor condition of the roads around here. But the biggest problem is that there is no suspension travel left! It is right down on the shock bump-stop now. My modified bump-stops are about 1 1/4" long, so maybe I can shorten them a little.

How do you people lower your cars 2" and still have any suspenstion travel? To get 2" of suspension travel (which I think would be a bare minimum) I have to raise it back up 2". I was thinking of flipping the upper plate around (the one with the rubber bushing in it) as was mentioned above. This will give around 1 1/4" suspension travel. I would still have to raise the car up a little. Is it maybe that Monroe struts are different somehow than other ones people are using?

thanks,

Rick

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 08-31-2009).]

IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #362, 01-15-2010 02:10 AM
      i have an 87 gt with the 3.8 so from what i understand the 7in collar with the 12 in 300 spring should work?

couldahadaV8 MSG #363, 01-15-2010 07:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

i have an 87 gt with the 3.8 so from what i understand the 7in collar with the 12 in 300 spring should work?


I'm pretty sure that will work fine. I find that the spring seat is around 2-3" from the bottom of the threaded collar, so a 7" collar is easily long enough with 12" springs. Also, the 300 lb/in rating should be good.


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #364, 01-15-2010 12:33 PM
      i was thinking of using slightly used maybe 5k on them rear kyb struts but it says people use stock ones?? im not sure should i find a set of cheep stock ones instead?? what will the difference be between using an old set of blown stock struts and my newer set of kyb?

Tha Driver MSG #365, 01-15-2010 01:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:
cheap "e-bay" type threaded collars


OK: several of us keep asking - what car do you buy the sleeves for that fit the Fiero struts?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!


couldahadaV8 MSG #366, 01-15-2010 03:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:
OK: several of us keep asking - what car do you buy the sleeves for that fit the Fiero struts?


I went to a place down the street (I know, that helps you a lot!) and bought mine. It was one of those places that sells cheap imported car accessories (spring kits, steering wheels, spoilers...). I had to buy a whole kit for converting a Honda to coilovers at all 4 corners. I don't know exactly what Honda it was for (I'll check on the packaging again and see if it says anything) but I don't think it really matters. As long as the threaded tubes have a 2" bore you are good to go. I obviously didn't use the springs and other parts that came with it, but it was still a good price. I think the 2" bore adaptors must be a fairly common size.

Rick

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 01-15-2010).]

SGS MSG #367, 01-15-2010 04:27 PM
      Yes, coilover sleeves for 50mm tubes (~2") are common.

You can google it. You can find the sleeves for less than $15 each if you look. Of course, you'll need the other hardware too.


RWDPLZ MSG #368, 01-15-2010 04:43 PM
      I bought my coilover parts from A-1 Racing Products

http://shop.a1racing.com/

I would definately use the 7" sleeve with a 12" spring. I bought the springs from Summit Racing

7" threaded sleeve: COK12455
$18.40 each

Coilover nut: COK12460
$12.87 each

Springs: QA1 12" progressive rate, 175-350 lb, part # 12-175-350
$49.95 each

Before:


After:


The above picture shows the 300 lb 10" spring I used first,it was far too stiff. I swapped it out with the 12" progressive rate spring.



Tha Driver MSG #369, 01-15-2010 08:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:


I went to a place down the street (I know, that helps you a lot!) and bought mine. It was one of those places that sells cheap imported car accessories (spring kits, steering wheels, spoilers...). I had to buy a whole kit for converting a Honda to coilovers at all 4 corners. I don't know exactly what Honda it was for (I'll check on the packaging again and see if it says anything) but I don't think it really matters. As long as the threaded tubes have a 2" bore you are good to go. I obviously didn't use the springs and other parts that came with it, but it was still a good price. I think the 2" bore adaptors must be a fairly common size.

Rick


If you could that I would appreciate it. Even a brand & part # would help.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"


Tha Driver MSG #370, 01-15-2010 08:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SGS:

Yes, coilover sleeves for 50mm tubes (~2") are common.

You can google it. You can find the sleeves for less than $15 each if you look. Of course, you'll need the other hardware too.

Yeah.... I had a set that was supposed to be for a Honda (no idea which one) & I spent 2 hours on each sleeve trying to hone it out to fit over the Fiero struts, & they were still too tight to fit down all the way. I had 40 grit wrapped around a cylinder hone & then went to 80 grit & 180 grit, & like I said after 2 hours on each one they still didn't fit. I'm not doing that again....
I've searched (several times on different search engines), asked several times here, emailed a LOT of sellers, & not a single person can come up the car you need to buy sleeves for that will fit the Fiero.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"


SGS MSG #371, 01-15-2010 10:23 PM
      The 50mm ones are really common. If you google "50mm coilover sleeve" you'll get plenty of results. Koni makes them, as well as several other manufacturers. Apparently, LOTS of cars use 50mm tubing for struts. I have discovered this since I need 54mm sleeves for my application (which isn't a Fiero), and the 54mm ones aren;t nearly as common.

Tha Driver MSG #372, 01-16-2010 06:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SGS:

The 50mm ones are really common. If you google "50mm coilover sleeve" you'll get plenty of results. Koni makes them, as well as several other manufacturers. Apparently, LOTS of cars use 50mm tubing for struts. I have discovered this since I need 54mm sleeves for my application (which isn't a Fiero), and the 54mm ones aren;t nearly as common.

Well that doesn't help. All I get is results that are talking about 50 mm sleeves, for sale at retail (too much for me), how to install them, cutting 50mm off of other things, shirt sleeves, Sleeves Sex Toys , etc.
ALL we need to know is what Honda to buy the kit for that has sleeves that fit the Fiero. If just ONE person would post with that info.....
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

To resist the influence of others, knowledge of one's self is most important.


couldahadaV8 MSG #373, 01-16-2010 09:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:
ALL we need to know is what Honda to buy the kit for that has sleeves that fit the Fiero. If just ONE person would post with that info.....


OK, the box says "90-97 Accord". The box is kind of generic so it doesn't have a brand or make on it, but now you do have all the info you need to buy some.

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 01-16-2010).]

SGS MSG #374, 01-16-2010 11:19 AM
     
http://www.koniracing.com/sleeves.cfm

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KON-30-0000/

The best reason to buy the components instead of a kit meant for another car is that you'll only pay for the stuff you actually need. You buy the Honda kit, you get stuff for all four corners when you only need two, and the springs might not be right for your application.


couldahadaV8 MSG #375, 01-16-2010 11:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SGS:
The best reason to buy the components instead of a kit meant for another car is that you'll only pay for the stuff you actually need. You buy the Honda kit, you get stuff for all four corners when you only need two, and the springs might not be right for your application.


Oh, the springs are certainly not right for a Fiero application. They are about 7" long and of an unknow stiffness. I did sell the 2 threaded sleeves that I didn't use to someone else, so if you get together, 2 of you can buy one kit and split it. Yes the springs and some left-over aluminum bits are left, but if I keep them long enough I'll probably find a use for them.


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #376, 01-16-2010 02:43 PM
      Today I got two hyperoo? 325lb springs 15 a piece and two 7in bliston sleves with adjuster knuckle for 10$ each I'll post pictures springs are almost new! I hope that rate isn't to harsh for my kyb struts

SGS MSG #377, 01-16-2010 04:22 PM
      I hope the sleeves fit your struts. Bilstein makes a lot of single tube dampers....good ones, but the bodies are smaller than the 50mm strut tubes you have.

Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #378, 01-17-2010 04:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:

OK, the box says "90-97 Accord".



That seems simple enough. Thanks for the info.

 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

I would definately use the 7" sleeve with a 12" spring.



Is the length of the sleeves as critical for 12" springs as they might be when using shorter springs? I've got two 12" 325 lb springs here I'd like to try, and I've been holding off until I tracked down some suitable coilover sleeves.

So would ones like these do the deed, although I have no idea how long the sleeves are? Less than $42 including shipping. They're certainly inexpensive enough, especially considering there are enough sleeves to do two Fieros.

eBay item # 330381077459 ...

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-17-2010).]

couldahadaV8 MSG #379, 01-17-2010 11:58 AM
      That looks more or less like the kit I bought. It will work fine with 12" springs. You will find that the spring seat is around 2" from the bottom, so that length of threaded sleeve is good.


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #380, 01-17-2010 01:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SGS:

I hope the sleeves fit your struts. Bilstein makes a lot of single tube dampers....good ones, but the bodies are smaller than the 50mm strut tubes you have.


ohh god thats no good! i hope these fit if not ill have to try to hone them out?? or sand the hell out of my strut tube untill they fit.. they look to be pretty close to the right size?



Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #381, 01-17-2010 01:49 PM
      I built these a couple of years ago (after reading this thread ):
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:
New koni's with Held coilover kit



Didnt post the build itself but this may be usefull info when using Koni shocks. The perch is easily cut off with a grinding wheel:


Then you will find it will not slide off because the top of the Koni strut tapers a bit outwards:

No problem. But this also means the inner diameter of the new sleeve is bigger than the diameter of the lower strut, so :

My advice is not to cut too much off this ring because it helps centering the sleeve..

With the sleeves installed I filled the gap at the top with sealant to keep water and debris out

Hope this helps..



SGS MSG #382, 01-17-2010 02:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:


ohh god thats no good! i hope these fit if not ill have to try to hone them out?? or sand the hell out of my strut tube untill they fit.. they look to be pretty close to the right size?


I think some of the shock bodies are 1-7/8". Your strut tubes are probably 50mm, just shy of 2".

You might be able to hone the sleeves, but pack a lunch, you'll be there a while. Don't try to narrow the strut tube! Not only will that take longer, remember that the strut is a structural component of your suspension. If it fails because the wall is too thin, you're gonna have a bad day.


Tha Driver MSG #383, 01-18-2010 01:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:


OK, the box says "90-97 Accord". The box is kind of generic so it doesn't have a brand or make on it, but now you do have all the info you need to buy some.


THANK YOU for that.
Been offline all weekend long due to Winstream BS....

 
quote
Originally posted by SGS:
The best reason to buy the components instead of a kit meant for another car is that you'll only pay for the stuff you actually need. You buy the Honda kit, you get stuff for all four corners when you only need two, and the springs might not be right for your application.

Yeah but I need sleeves for two Fieros, & you can buy those for what just 2 sleeves cost WITHOUT the nuts the springs rest on. Springs can be bought separately, & I may be able to use the springs on other cars.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

You braggin' or complainin'?




Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #384, 01-18-2010 02:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:

That looks more or less like the kit I bought. It will work fine with 12" springs. You will find that the spring seat is around 2" from the bottom, so that length of threaded sleeve is good.



Thanks.

I just want to double-check on something before I actually order a set - Are all four sleeves exactly the same in the 90-97 Accord kit. In other words, the sleeves aren't different for the "front" as opposed to the "rear" are they? I suspect they're all the same, but I just want to make sure before I post in my local Fiero club's forum to see who wants to split a set.



couldahadaV8 MSG #385, 01-18-2010 07:42 PM
     
 
quote

I just want to double-check on something before I actually order a set - Are all four sleeves exactly the same in the 90-97 Accord kit. In other words, the sleeves aren't different for the "front" as opposed to the "rear" are they? I suspect they're all the same, but I just want to make sure before I post in my local Fiero club's forum to see who wants to split a set.


With the kit I bought, there were 2 different sizes of sleeves, 2 were 7" and 2 were 5". With 12" springs either will work. The 5" may even work with 10" springs, but I'm not positive.

Rick


Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #386, 01-18-2010 10:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:

With the kit I bought, there were 2 different sizes of sleeves, 2 were 7" and 2 were 5".



Interesting. The diameter of the sleeves was all the same though, right?




IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #387, 01-19-2010 01:58 AM
      dose anyone have an extra set of the screws to keep the nut in place my sleeves didn't come with a set will pay for them!! also if the sleeves i bought don't fit anybody want to go 1/2's on a set?

couldahadaV8 MSG #388, 01-19-2010 07:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Interesting. The diameter of the sleeves was all the same though, right?


right


Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #389, 01-19-2010 03:13 PM
     
Thanks Rick.


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #390, 01-19-2010 03:34 PM
      Great post and some good looking work. Having never used coil overs, I don't have a performance comparison to share but the obvious advantage of adjustability and ability to change spring rates must have a positive impact. .
I'd like to ask the question of the people that have done this modification. Is there any noticable increase in handling or traction? Was it worth the work.? It also should be noted that the coils are already over the springs on a stock Fiero so how much improvement is really obtained.? Any comments are appreciated.



Seanpaul (seanscarbrough@gmail.com) MSG #391, 01-27-2010 11:50 AM
      What I don't understand, is why can't you just use the existing spring perch with a sleeve, and a 7 inch spring?
There is only 4" of travel in the Fiero strut wouldn't a 12" springs be a bit over kill??


doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #392, 01-27-2010 01:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Seanpaul:

What I don't understand, is why can't you just use the existing spring perch with a sleeve, and a 7 inch spring?
There is only 4" of travel in the Fiero strut wouldn't a 12" springs be a bit over kill??


People get rid of the strut perch because of its large diameter. This gives people additional clearance for wider rims/tires.


doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #393, 01-28-2010 11:47 AM
      For those of you who have done this,

When trying to make adjustments to the ride height, what keeps the threaded sleeve from rotating around strut body when trying to turn the collar?



Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #394, 01-28-2010 03:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:
For those of you who have done this,

When trying to make adjustments to the ride height, what keeps the threaded sleeve from rotating around strut body when trying to turn the collar?


With the car jacked up and the spring unloaded it should be easy to keep the sleeve in place...
But imho, it is better when its sealed to the strut..

 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:
With the sleeves installed I filled the gap at the top with sealant to keep water and debris out



- it also keeps the sleeve from turning




couldahadaV8 MSG #395, 01-28-2010 03:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Seanpaul:

What I don't understand, is why can't you just use the existing spring perch with a sleeve, and a 7 inch spring?
There is only 4" of travel in the Fiero strut wouldn't a 12" springs be a bit over kill??


Keep in mind that a 7" spring has an overall length of 7". The total distance between the coils might be around 3-4" (I'm guessing here, but I could check with the 7" ones I have). Put that on the car and drop the car down and the weight compresses it 2-3", so you have very little/no suspension travel before you coil-bind the spring. Very bad for the spring let alone the ride!

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 01-28-2010).]

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #396, 02-19-2010 03:51 PM
      Well on my way



350# spring rate, 12 inch long



IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #397, 02-19-2010 06:48 PM
      well I have some 7 in sleeves with the Adjuster nut (dose anybody have two of the screws that go into the adjuster nut? ill pay $$) and two 12 in 325LB screws Now is this all i need for the project ? i have two kyb struts as well Can i make coil-overs on the components I've mentioned with out the Coil-over upper strut mount offered by dave held ?

ALJR (aljr@jgmanzi.com) MSG #398, 03-10-2010 01:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

well I have some 7 in sleeves with the Adjuster nut (dose anybody have two of the screws that go into the adjuster nut? ill pay $$) and two 12 in 325LB screws Now is this all i need for the project ? i have two kyb struts as well Can i make coil-overs on the components I've mentioned with out the Coil-over upper strut mount offered by dave held ?


Wow, a 325lb screw may be hard to find in the Fiero community... Might wanna try a ship yard
The set-screws on the adjuster nut can be found at HD/Lowes and maybe a Hobby Shop that specializes in R/C cars...


Think I am going to give this project a shot... Found the below coilover sleeves at Summit Racing for $20.00 each... May also look for the suggested Honda kit on ebay. If I go for the Honda kit, I will have two extra 5" sleeves available if anyone is interested...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20122-7/


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #399, 03-10-2010 03:59 PM
      lol i have the springs and everything accept for the little screw thanks for letting me know where to get it!!! i got it all at a local swap meet for less than 55$

ScotMac (scotmac@gmail.com) MSG #400, 03-18-2010 01:45 AM
      Hi, i'm looking at doing this conversion. For the AFCO 20126 sleeve, does anyone know what hardware to get w/ it? ie, if i want 2 jam nuts and the top retainer, what should i get?

Thanks.


Justin_J (tin_man64@hotmail.com) MSG #401, 03-22-2010 02:25 PM
      I have an 85 GT with KYB struts, I have cut the front springs resulting in it being about one inch lower. I want to do coil overs in the rear. Will 12 inch springs with a 2 1/2" ID work on KYB GR-2 struts? And will a 7 inch sleeve with a 2.04" ID work? Third and final question is this...I want the cornering performance and ride much stiffer and lower than stock, but i do not want it so stiff that it is totally uncivilized, so from what I have seen on here most of you guys are between 250lb and 300lb spring rate, what's the most ideal? Some opinions and input on these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-Justin

[This message has been edited by Justin_J (edited 03-22-2010).]

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #402, 05-14-2010 10:31 PM
      Here's how mine turned out



350# QA1 springs 12"
5" threaded sleeve
KYB shocks
HELD upper spring locators



LZeppelin513 (bjamestate@gmail.com) MSG #403, 05-17-2010 06:35 AM
      So, has anyone found a threaded sleeve that will fit over the koni strut without additional honing out the sleeve? If not, how much exactly are you guys honing out the sleeve?

Thanks!
Blake


pmbrunelle (pmbrunelle@gmail.com) MSG #404, 06-03-2010 01:29 AM
      This is why you shouldn't use conical spring seats like this:


in such a way that the full weight of the car is supported by the strut mount bushing.

It's only intended to tolerate damping forces.

Look at the strut mount I took from my car with that conical spring seat setup:


It was ready to shear right through!


Robert Reif (reif@earthlink.net) MSG #405, 06-03-2010 07:10 AM
      Has anyone tried solid strut mounts like these http://www.overkillengineer...rts.com/frjsomo.html that are designed to work with coilovers?

DougC (dcarpenter@gmail.com) MSG #406, 07-15-2010 10:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Robert Reif:

Has anyone tried solid strut mounts like these http://www.overkillengineer...rts.com/frjsomo.html that are designed to work with coilovers?


Very interesting, though it does say 95-05 J body, and I have no knowledge if those would work (without mods of course ) with the Fiero...


White88GT (nathan.kramer09@gmail.com) MSG #407, 10-22-2010 12:22 AM
      How about some actual car photos of how the various coilover combos are adjusted on the cars ? I will be ordering the needed parts in the next day or two and I am uncertain if I will be able to adjust a 10 or 12 inch 300# spring (7 inch sleeves either way) low enough. Basically the car sits with an index finger of fender gap and I want to keep it that way. So my question is, where would the adjustment collar need to be set when using a 10 or 12 inch spring to achieve a similar ride height (i.e. would the collar have to be bottomed out to the strut bolts if using a 12 inch spring)? Thanks in advance for any help guys and what a great thread for 6 years and counting.

--Nathan


mbautodesign (m.bronson11@insightbb.com) MSG #408, 02-04-2011 11:00 PM
      im about to build myself a set of these
kyb struts
7" sleeves
12" springs 250-300#

as for springs im looking at Eibachs, anyone using these?
I see alot of QA springs, are they better?
theyre about the same price as Eibachs


Joseph Upson (j.j.upson@worldnet.att.net) MSG #409, 03-24-2011 12:52 AM
      I just spent the last 5 hours installing my coilovers. The front Eibachs went on earlier without much of a problem. I had a unique situation that is important to know. I have an 86 model and installed my new wheels and tires a couple of days ago, 18x8 and 18x9s, 38 mm offset. I have the Coleman racing sleeve kit with the upper cone seats as seen in the example on page 2, and QA1 12" 275 lb rate. I installed the cone seat beneath the stock strut mount. I adjusted the spring seats up to 3.25 inches from the bottom and sat it down. The rear lift must have been about 4 inches.

I lowered the perch a few inches and still had too much lift, that's when I discovered the spring and seats were making contact with the tire and wheel. In the picture below it's hard to see it clearly but if you look at the bottom of the sleeve you'll see that it is not resting properly at the bottom of the strut.

I removed the cone and that has nearly solved the problem by allowing the spring seat to rest a lot higher up, but when adjusting for the lower height to match the front ride height, the perch is now close to the tire again so a 1/8" thick spacer may be needed for the wheel to get the additional inch or so necessary to level it off, or purchasing 10" springs instead.







nitroheadz28 MSG #410, 06-03-2011 09:27 PM
      Quick question, so far I've gathered all the components to do this conversion. I just got the springs today, the last piece of the puzzle. I ordered monroe sensa trac shocks and struts from rockauto, but heres what I don't get. Take a look at the picture:

http://www.autopartswarehou...841988QQTS71814.html

You'll notice that at the end of the strut tube, there is a sort of "cap", the diameter is larger than that of the tube itself. Is this supposed to be cut off? I backtracked through the thread and did a search and didn't find anything mentioning it.

Thanks.


gusshotrod (gushotrod@aol.com) MSG #411, 06-04-2011 06:59 AM
      There are three small tabs holding the cap on. Cut through these with a cut off wheel and remove the cap.

nitroheadz28 MSG #412, 06-04-2011 12:24 PM
      Thank you sir! Now I'm curious if anyone has removed the coating on the spring to paint them. Mine are bright yellow AFCO springs that I got used off a dirt model race car, they show some wear. I know the coating on them is thick though.

IMSA GT (drumwzrd@comcast.net) MSG #413, 06-04-2011 01:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

Thank you sir! Now I'm curious if anyone has removed the coating on the spring to paint them. Mine are bright yellow AFCO springs that I got used off a dirt model race car, they show some wear. I know the coating on them is thick though.


I actually posted a thread on that very subject and got no help. The only recommendation was a wire wheel or grinder. Just be careful not to heat the spring too much.


nitroheadz28 MSG #414, 06-04-2011 01:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:


I actually posted a thread on that very subject and got no help. The only recommendation was a wire wheel or grinder. Just be careful not to heat the spring too much.


Funny you mention that, I could have sworn I stumbled upon that thread haha. Have you done it? The wear is pretty light on these springs so I don't know if its worth it.


IMSA GT (drumwzrd@comcast.net) MSG #415, 06-04-2011 10:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:


Funny you mention that, I could have sworn I stumbled upon that thread haha. Have you done it? The wear is pretty light on these springs so I don't know if its worth it.


Honestly, I tried to remove some of the finish but it seems that stuff is bulletproof. I just left it alone


nitroheadz28 MSG #416, 06-04-2011 11:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:


Honestly, I tried to remove some of the finish but it seems that stuff is bulletproof. I just left it alone


Ok then stock yellow it is, good thing they aren't too worn in the first place. Thanks a lot Imsa.


nitroheadz28 MSG #417, 06-06-2011 06:20 PM
      Well of course it would be strange if this turned out to be easy. For some reason I have struts which don't have your typical external tabs for the caps. Instead there were 4 and they were welded more towards the center of the shock. I used my rotary tool and cut of wheels for metal, and it took 7 wheels before I cut down the diameter of the cap enough for the sleeve to clear. Yaaay for having to spend $30 for cut off wheels for this project . For the other strut, I'm just going to take a grinder to the cap and pray that I don't go too far and nick the tube hard. I nicked it a few times with the dremel but they are just surface scratches luckily, barely fingernail length.

[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 06-06-2011).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #418, 06-07-2011 07:32 PM
      @ nitroheadz28...Careful you do not heat it too much when grinding.

Bob


nitroheadz28 MSG #419, 06-08-2011 01:47 AM
      I was cutting and grinding all day. Decided to take a hand grinder and go at it with a cut off wheel to do the perches. I cut and ground off the cap on the second strut. I still have a few hours of work ahead of me too, the damn welds in the middle where the perches were- you have to pretty delicate and precise not to grind into the tube. The strut was pretty warm to the touch while grinding, so I doubt I messed up the temper of the steel.

nitroheadz28 MSG #420, 06-10-2011 07:24 PM
      Thanks for the help guys.



Just gotta use the stock tophat when I take off the old struts.


FieroGT42 (fierogt42@gmail.com) MSG #421, 06-17-2011 08:10 PM
      1. What ID sleeves fit best on KYB struts without thinning the walls? I've seen 2.07, 2.1 and 2.17" ID sleeves but I don't want to guess on something that's holding up most of the car's weight.

2. What is currently the cheapest source for them without wasting $ on the conical hats and other stuff that we don't need?

Thanks.


nitroheadz28 MSG #422, 06-17-2011 09:44 PM
      I would say ebay. It takes some shopping, but you can find them cheap. I got my A1 racing sleeves/rings/tophats (which I didn't use of course) for $30 shipped- very lightly used.

scott0999 (scott099@juno.com) MSG #423, 06-18-2011 01:22 PM
      after doing this conversion I would like to say, for stock fiero rims I recommend 10" springs if you want it to look dropped

you can do it with 12" springs if you dont mind tightening the adjuster a bit, putting more preload on the springs

I have 12" springs right now with the adjuster tightened enough to take up the slack on the spring, plus just a couple turns. theres still a good bit of wheel gap though

its still lower than stock, but not as much as I was hoping for

[This message has been edited by scott0999 (edited 06-18-2011).]

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #424, 06-19-2011 04:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ALJR:
Found the below coilover sleeves at Summit Racing for $20.00 each...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20122-7/


I checked out the link. I have sleeves showing up, but it does not mention the ID of the sleeve for verification, nor does it mention if the sleeve comes with the adjuster? Any clarification you can offer on what comes with this sleeve. I have KYBs in the rear.

 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:

I just spent the last 5 hours installing my coilovers. The front Eibachs went on earlier without much of a problem. I had a unique situation that is important to know. I have an 86 model and installed my new wheels and tires a couple of days ago, 18x8 and 18x9s, 38 mm offset. I have the Coleman racing sleeve kit with the upper cone seats as seen in the example on page 2, and QA1 12" 275 lb rate. I installed the cone seat beneath the stock strut mount. I adjusted the spring seats up to 3.25 inches from the bottom and sat it down. The rear lift must have been about 4 inches.

I lowered the perch a few inches and still had too much lift, that's when I discovered the spring and seats were making contact with the tire and wheel. In the picture below it's hard to see it clearly but if you look at the bottom of the sleeve you'll see that it is not resting properly at the bottom of the strut.

I removed the cone and that has nearly solved the problem by allowing the spring seat to rest a lot higher up, but when adjusting for the lower height to match the front ride height, the perch is now close to the tire again so a 1/8" thick spacer may be needed for the wheel to get the additional inch or so necessary to level it off, or purchasing 10" springs instead.





1984 indy manual stock with new Kybs in the rear.

After reading through this thread I was nearly sold on the 7in adjusters, QA1 12 inch springs @ 300lbs. I was going to fully remove the stock perch and have the sleeve sit all the way down. Now I'm worried... I wanted to do the coil over conversion to allow for wider rims in the rear. I have a free pair of 265/35 r18 tires off my spouses mustang I wanted to use on the rear. I'm still shopping for rims to make it all work. That tire size means rims at 18x8.5 minimum, but preferred 18x9 inch. Now I'm worried I might experience this issue, as rims don't offer as much offset selection with our lug pattern. I don't need my lower spring seat/adjuster hitting my tires. The plan is to lower the car so the fender sits about an inch above the tire. Would it be better to use a 10 inch spring to get the lower ride height I want, but avoid the seat/tire contact? Or would it be better to have the sleeve rest on the stock perch welds to hold it up higher. Then what spring length would i need to get only 1 inch fender gap?

Thanks to you all. Great info in this thread. I figure its better to ask before I collect parts and have to re-buy a shorter spring.


mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #425, 06-19-2011 05:22 PM
      Made my coil-over's today. 7in adjusters, QA1 12" 300lb springs, and Monroe struts. The top plate is just there to hold it all together for now, built them for an 88 cradle swap.



FieroGT42 (fierogt42@gmail.com) MSG #426, 06-20-2011 11:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by scott0999:

after doing this conversion I would like to say, for stock fiero rims I recommend 10" springs if you want it to look dropped

you can do it with 12" springs if you dont mind tightening the adjuster a bit, putting more preload on the springs

I have 12" springs right now with the adjuster tightened enough to take up the slack on the spring, plus just a couple turns. theres still a good bit of wheel gap though

its still lower than stock, but not as much as I was hoping for



1-2 turns preload is what I've always heard is correct anyway (well, for even height. 4-corner wheel weighing is correct for track/handling)

Do you have any pictures of the drop with them adjusted like this? I'm really curious because I thought 12" springs were what everyone preferred. Oh, and what spring rate are you using with that kind of drop?

[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 06-20-2011).]

scott0999 (scott099@juno.com) MSG #427, 06-21-2011 03:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroGT42:


1-2 turns preload is what I've always heard is correct anyway (well, for even height. 4-corner wheel weighing is correct for track/handling)

Do you have any pictures of the drop with them adjusted like this? I'm really curious because I thought 12" springs were what everyone preferred. Oh, and what spring rate are you using with that kind of drop?



QA1 12" springs, 300# spring rate

please excuse the paint, thats the last thing I'm doing on the car



redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #428, 06-28-2011 01:00 PM
      Still trying to gather info for my coil over conversion.... and rim swap... I have been using Joe Torma's wheel offset diagram as my bible for possible fitments on my 84. On his diagram.... I understand where the spring perch is marked and have based my potential offset choices on this... However the coil-over conversion will add additional clearance in the rear. Can anyone give any figures as to the amount of inside clearance that is gained after the conversion?

I'm having a heck of a time finding wheels that will offer a decent staggered offset. I'm still concerned as to my previous post... seeing someone else have their rear 18x9s hit the coil-over's perch... See I have a free pair of 18inch tires 265/35. Best choice for the tire is a 9inch wheel. But I'm worried about how they will fit even with the coil-over conversion.

Its not like I can just do the conversion and see what happens... My sleeve length choice and spring length choice might also affect what will fit. Either way could spell a costly mistake. The spouse is barely allowing me to make this investment at its current "no mistakes" price. Though I still think the wheels are going to break the budget. I want white, but its hard to get them in decent widths, esp anything staggered. So now it might be another finish and powder coat them... ugh! So you can see why I want to make the right choice from the get go.

Help please!


FieroGT42 (fierogt42@gmail.com) MSG #429, 07-06-2011 02:34 PM
      Stock WS6 springs on my '86 GT (Code NYM, stiffest of 4 possible) have O.D. of 7-7/8 for a radius of 3.9375. I'd imagine they're all the same...?
Standard 2-5/8 coil springs have O.D. of 3-5/8, radius of 1.8125.
2-1/2" I.D. springs will have O.D. of about 3-1/2, radius of 1.750.
Most coil over nuts/adjusters are about 3-1/2" O.D. as well.

2-1/2" springs give you 3.9375 - 1.8125 = 2 1/8" more room on each side from the shock centerline. 2-5/8" springs will give you about 2".

This is assuming there are no geometry changes with your install. If clearance is an issue, you should look upper spring locators like WCF uses with their kit to make sure nothing shifts.

Scott0999, I'm not sure why you had trouble lowering their rear with 12" springs unless they're resting on the stock perches...? Stock springs were 12" and removing the perches gives you about 4-3/8" drop. Coilover kits raise you up from there.

Also, most eBay coilover kits (even for Integras) do NOT fit over KYBs even if you sand the paint off and heat them to 400-425 (Al loses temper at 425-450 after 10 to 20 min, and they WILL stay hot for that long if you don't quench them). Maybe if they were honed or on a different brand of struts?

I got a deal on some sleeves & rings from Speedway. They were in the garage sale section without the cone, clip and other stuff so that saves a few bucks. They clear KYB's with at about 1/16" gap. Plenty of room.

Finally, just FYI: KYB previously marketed their shocks/struts as GR-2 in the U.S. and Excel elsewhere. They have discontinued the GR-2 name and silver color. Everything is black Excel now, but KYB says they are the exact same product.

[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 07-06-2011).]

FinnishFireball MSG #430, 08-20-2011 02:18 AM
      Is this part of the stock shock removable?



Shill MSG #431, 08-20-2011 06:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FinnishFireball:

Is this part of the stock shock removable?



I would not remove that if I were you.


nitroheadz28 MSG #432, 08-20-2011 11:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FinnishFireball:

Is this part of the stock shock removable?



Everything is removable if you can cut it off, otherwise no


FinnishFireball MSG #433, 08-20-2011 12:44 PM
      Haa haa guys, I was just thinkin of the possibility to move the lower bracket around another shock, but no luck then.

[This message has been edited by FinnishFireball (edited 08-20-2011).]

scott0999 (scott099@juno.com) MSG #434, 08-20-2011 01:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroGT42:
Scott0999, I'm not sure why you had trouble lowering their rear with 12" springs unless they're resting on the stock perches...? Stock springs were 12" and removing the perches gives you about 4-3/8" drop. Coilover kits raise you up from there.


I didnt say I was having trouble, I was saying (I think) it would be better to use 10" springs for stock wheels

for the wheel gap I have with 12" springs, I would have to tighten the adjuster alot, putting ALOT of preload on the springs to close the gap.

it needs a good 2" drop to match the front with 1 coil cut, so 10" spring would do that perfectly


FinnishFireball MSG #435, 08-20-2011 03:56 PM
      BTW here's a quite nice calculator for spring rate http://www.ridetech.com/inf...ing-rate-calculator/ if someone feels the urge to use "correct" springs in their setup


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #436, 08-22-2011 02:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:


1984 indy manual stock with new Kybs in the rear.

After reading through this thread I was nearly sold on the 7in adjusters, QA1 12 inch springs @ 300lbs. I was going to fully remove the stock perch and have the sleeve sit all the way down. Now I'm worried... I wanted to do the coil over conversion to allow for wider rims in the rear. I have a free pair of 265/35 r18 tires off my spouses mustang I wanted to use on the rear. I'm still shopping for rims to make it all work. That tire size means rims at 18x8.5 minimum, but preferred 18x9 inch. Now I'm worried I might experience this issue, as rims don't offer as much offset selection with our lug pattern. I don't need my lower spring seat/adjuster hitting my tires. The plan is to lower the car so the fender sits about an inch above the tire. Would it be better to use a 10 inch spring to get the lower ride height I want, but avoid the seat/tire contact? Or would it be better to have the sleeve rest on the stock perch welds to hold it up higher. Then what spring length would i need to get only 1 inch fender gap?

Thanks to you all. Great info in this thread. I figure its better to ask before I collect parts and have to re-buy a shorter spring.


I plan to do this install as soon as I can get this question answered...
I have since learned the 10 inch spring with the 7 inch sleeve should get me above the wheel and tire, but If I really want to push the tire width and offset... and maximize my space, would it be better to go with a perch mounted sleeve with the perch trimmed super tight? This would give me a few more MM of clearance with the sleeve not b/w the strut and tire? Yes/NO??? Or will 18s sit tall enough that their height will put them at or above the stock perch location and make it irrelivant?

 
quote
Originally posted by Riddick85:

By using the 12" spring I can see you get more adjustable range but if you adjusted it to near the bottom wouldn't that lower the car like 3-4"? It seems a little much. I have read through this whole thing but I still have a question that wasn't exactly covered.

It seems where the adjuster is at is about where the spring perch is normally at in most of the finished pics. Couldn't you keep the perch, get a shorter adjuster sleeve, and get a 8" or 10" spring? I know it would be easier to get coil bind that way but as long as you aren't driving crazy it should be fine I think.

I know I could be way wrong but that is why I am asking and not just doing. I just want an easy, safe way to lower the car about an inch to get rid of the big gap in the wheel wells.


Same question I have! I ahve seen some of the completed kits offered have the sleeve at the stock perch location, but I have heard people say the 8 inch spring has popped out. So that means 10 is safer. Well will that still give one the adjustablity to get decently low. Again I'm hoping to go as low as I can.

Thank you! I have been searching and searching and have not yet found a thread weighting these pros and cons clearly enough for me to be 100% sure of which route to go... THX!


couldahadaV8 MSG #437, 08-23-2011 01:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by scott0999:


I didnt say I was having trouble, I was saying (I think) it would be better to use 10" springs for stock wheels

for the wheel gap I have with 12" springs, I would have to tighten the adjuster alot, putting ALOT of preload on the springs to close the gap.

it needs a good 2" drop to match the front with 1 coil cut, so 10" spring would do that perfectly


This doesn't make sense. To close the wheel/body gap you don't tighten the adjuster, you lower it. If you tighten the adjuster you are raising the car more, no matter how long your springs are.

Rick


GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #438, 08-26-2011 09:33 PM
      Just FYI, Speedway has a garage sale on a 5in 2.05in diameter sleeve and nut for $22

I bought a pair of sleeves, a spanner wrench and 12" 275 springs for $150 shipped

Also, use discount code 1409w as that knocked $10 off my order



redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #439, 09-14-2011 10:25 AM
      ok here is my diy coil-over thread in process showing my build with the 10in 300lb summit springs and 7inch Coleman racing sleeves

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...118751.html#lastpost

could not have done it without this thread. +1 fierohoho


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #440, 09-26-2011 11:00 AM
      just to report back in on the completion of my build. I was able to fit 265/35 18s on 18x8.5 with a 45 offset on the rear. Seems like I have about a finger b/w the tire and spring perch. Car is sitting now with 3 fingers height b/w the tire and fender lip (perch sits 31 threads up from the bottom) The tire sticks out of the fender lip ever so slightly, but WAY less then a 38 offset on a 9 inch wheel. Pics will be posted in my thread later, which I linked in the post above this

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 10-05-2011).]

nitroheadz28 MSG #441, 10-14-2011 12:47 PM
      This past weekend I installed my built coilovers, poly in the control arms and new ball joints. I didn't touch the knuckle/ brake assembly. Since my first drive, I had this scratching noise as if the pads were scraping rust off the rotor- which I thought was normal since the car had been sitting for over a month. It got progressively louder and started squealing VERY loud.

I took some pics of whats going on back there:



Strut is extremely close to the wheel lip



Rubbing a tiny bit.. I guess cause I set it to max negative camber??



Dust shields vs rotor.. What the hell, this area was never touched?



Springs are wearing away the sleeves.

All of this is after 20 miles of driving on max negative camber. Struts are Monroe, springs are AFCO 12" 250lbs adjusted about 15 turns from the bottom.


dobey MSG #442, 10-14-2011 01:45 PM
      Why is this thread not in TCZ yet? It so needs to go in there.

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #443, 10-14-2011 04:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

Springs are wearing away the sleeves.



Is the spring centered on the top perch? What is keeping your spring concentric to the strut shaft? It looks like either the spring is flexing inward like this: ) or the spring isn't staying concentric.


nitroheadz28 MSG #444, 10-15-2011 12:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:


Is the spring centered on the top perch? What is keeping your spring concentric to the strut shaft? It looks like either the spring is flexing inward like this: ) or the spring isn't staying concentric.


I do believe it is cause it was on pretty good when I installed it, I'll double check tomorrow to see if theres any wiggle room. I assembled my struts the same way redraif did in his thread:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/118751.html


nitroheadz28 MSG #445, 10-15-2011 05:35 PM
      They are not sitting concentric at the bottom it seems, what do you think I should do? (And yes I'm using a button head screw cause I got the sleeves+ collars used and haven't gotten around to finding an appropriate set screw).







[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 10-15-2011).]

L67 (pchaskin@uncc.edu) MSG #446, 10-15-2011 06:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:
{And yes I'm using a button head screw cause I got the sleeves+ collars used and haven't gotten around to finding an appropriate set screw).



You can find the correct hex head plugs locally. There's a ball and detent spring behind it, very easy to build.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 10-15-2011).]

nitroheadz28 MSG #447, 10-15-2011 08:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by L67:
You can find the correct hex head plugs locally. There's a ball and detent spring behind it, very easy to build.



Its not in any hardware store I've been to, if anyone has extra then be my guest to help me out lol. I'm a lot more concerned about the spring rubbing the sleeve.


Tha Driver MSG #448, 10-15-2011 10:17 PM
      It looks like the spring is larger than the flange on the sleeve nut (if it even has one). I would suggest a rubber with a flange on it to center the spring.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #449, 10-17-2011 01:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:


Its not in any hardware store I've been to, if anyone has extra then be my guest to help me out lol. I'm a lot more concerned about the spring rubbing the sleeve.


the ones that came with mine had a rubber plug between the set screw and the sleeve. In the past I have found set screws at Lowe's and Home Depot. in the pull out bins.


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #450, 10-17-2011 01:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

This past weekend I installed my built coilovers, poly in the control arms and new ball joints. I didn't touch the knuckle/ brake assembly. Since my first drive, I had this scratching noise as if the pads were scraping rust off the rotor- which I thought was normal since the car had been sitting for over a month. It got progressively louder and started squealing VERY loud.

I took some pics of whats going on back there:



Rubbing a tiny bit.. I guess cause I set it to max negative camber??

All of this is after 20 miles of driving on max negative camber. Struts are Monroe, springs are AFCO 12" 250lbs adjusted about 15 turns from the bottom.


I remember in searching that some had a bit of sleeve rubbing, but it was over a LONG period of time.

I wonder if the max negative camber is causing the spring to bow more extreme, and there by rubbing? Excuse me if you already said it, but is it rubbing inside (body side) or outside / front or back worse. Are both sides rubbing equally and in the same place?

I have not had my car out on the road yet... front end lowering & poly build currently... so I have yet to see if mine has any issues. Before I drive it I'm planning to do a home alignment to at least make the car safe to get to an alignment shop. That and to give me some time to allow the springs to settle in before I get it aligned. i would ahve to do it twice.

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 10-17-2011).]

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #451, 10-27-2011 07:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:


I remember in searching that some had a bit of sleeve rubbing, but it was over a LONG period of time.

I wonder if the max negative camber is causing the spring to bow more extreme, and there by rubbing? Excuse me if you already said it, but is it rubbing inside (body side) or outside / front or back worse. Are both sides rubbing equally and in the same place?

I have not had my car out on the road yet... front end lowering & poly build currently... so I have yet to see if mine has any issues. Before I drive it I'm planning to do a home alignment to at least make the car safe to get to an alignment shop. That and to give me some time to allow the springs to settle in before I get it aligned. i would ahve to do it twice.



Any updates on your car nitroheadz28?


I finally got the front poly done on mine and the frt 1.5 coil removal completed.

The car looks much better all leveled out! I dropped the rear a few more turns and I'm near the 3 finger mark... in the front I'm at about 2.5 fingers...

Scarey thing is even with the alignment like this > < ... the darn car felt better then it ever did, nice and tight!... but I did straighten out the rear toe before I took it on its 20 mile trip.

So that rear floaty feeling I have been plagued with since I got the car was a combo of: blown motor & tranny mounts, dead suspension bushings, and old soft springs. The poly, new solid rubber motor and tranny mounts, 300lb rear & 1.5 coils cut on the front WS6 (stiffest stock) made all the difference! I was SOOO happy when I was driving my little indy again! Dang, I have missed this car! The 300lb spring rate in the rear felt great.


This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Im planning to check this weekend to see if I have any rubbing issues

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 10-27-2011).]

nitroheadz28 MSG #452, 10-27-2011 09:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:


I remember in searching that some had a bit of sleeve rubbing, but it was over a LONG period of time.

I wonder if the max negative camber is causing the spring to bow more extreme, and there by rubbing? Excuse me if you already said it, but is it rubbing inside (body side) or outside / front or back worse. Are both sides rubbing equally and in the same place?

I have not had my car out on the road yet... front end lowering & poly build currently... so I have yet to see if mine has any issues. Before I drive it I'm planning to do a home alignment to at least make the car safe to get to an alignment shop. That and to give me some time to allow the springs to settle in before I get it aligned. i would ahve to do it twice.



Ah whoops I must have completely missed this post. Its rubbing on the outside (facing the wheel well) in about a 30-40mm long patch. Correct both sides have the same exact wear.

I have since gotten 2 alignments, the springs still rub. Will be getting a 3rd alignment tomorrow cause my mechanic didn't understand how to adjust Rodney's ball joints to get the correct camber setting in the front. I'll just leave the springs as is, I'm running 2 5/8" AFCO springs- they are slightly larger than the 2.5" springs most here use so that is probably my issue. I plan on swapping them out when I do my engine swap for a 10" long set. Stupid poly is squeaking in the front a arm- never been exposed to water/ I greased the hell out of em/ only had 200 miles on the conversion . I'll also switch that out for rubber when I do my engine swap, the squeak is annoying as hell!


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #453, 10-28-2011 12:27 AM
      I checked the car... I have no wear on my sleeves so far. Wonder if it does have to do with the different diameter springs.

You could always make your poly greasable... I did that with all of mine. Here's hoping it keeps the squeeks away

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 10-28-2011).]

nitroheadz28 MSG #454, 10-28-2011 01:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:

I checked the car... I have no wear on my sleeves so far. Wonder if it does have to do with the different diameter springs.

You could always make your poly greasable... I did that with all of mine. Here's hoping it keeps the squeeks away



I know but I was short on time, I really needed the asap car as its my DD. I actually don't want poly after doing more research on it a little while ago. The bushings become torn and destroyed after a few years anyway (depending on usage), I'd rather have rubber for the peace of mind. The sad thing is that I had a complete set of Moog rubber bushings/ sleeves that I sold


Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #455, 10-28-2011 12:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:


Its rubbing on the outside (facing the wheel well) in about a 30-40mm long patch. Correct both sides have the same exact wear.



I didn't review your install, but have you verified that each item is constrained concentrically? Do you have any sort of locating feature for the spring under the top 'hat' that prevents the spring from walking around? Do you have either a tight fit or the centering O-Rings,etc installed between the strut and sleeve? The spring is either moving around up top or the threaded sleeve is "rocking" back and forth on the base. Its possible the spring is bowing, but I would think these other two situations would be more common.


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #456, 10-28-2011 02:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:


I didn't review your install, but have you verified that each item is constrained concentrically? Do you have any sort of locating feature for the spring under the top 'hat' that prevents the spring from walking around? Do you have either a tight fit or the centering O-Rings,etc installed between the strut and sleeve? The spring is either moving around up top or the threaded sleeve is "rocking" back and forth on the base. Its possible the spring is bowing, but I would think these other two situations would be more common.


Hmmm... the sleeve wobbling... I did not think of that. that could do it! With my coleman sleeves they had a metal snap ring that was a SUPER tight fit and holds the sleeve PERFECTLY still. Nitroheadz28 did yours have the snap ring?



nitroheadz28 MSG #457, 10-28-2011 04:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:


I didn't review your install, but have you verified that each item is constrained concentrically? Do you have any sort of locating feature for the spring under the top 'hat' that prevents the spring from walking around? Do you have either a tight fit or the centering O-Rings,etc installed between the strut and sleeve? The spring is either moving around up top or the threaded sleeve is "rocking" back and forth on the base. Its possible the spring is bowing, but I would think these other two situations would be more common.


The sleeves arent moving, its siliconed in place lol. I bought everything minus the struts used and it didn't have the snap ring nor could I find one. I believe you asked me this already and I confirmed that the spring doesn't sit concentrically at the bottom. The top is fine, the spring "walks" on the sleeve adjuster ever so slightly, most likely because the adjuster was designed for a 2.5" ID spring.


Shill MSG #458, 03-11-2012 03:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohoho:


That's it in a nutshell, buying new parts and using the old struts you'll have about $228.00 into this project.




Am i missing something here?

WCF sells these for $220 and saves you the trouble of modding and tracking parts down. What would be the difference in these?

EDIT: found the difference. WCF sleeve is intended to sit on the original spring perch, and use a smaller spring.

I think I prefer Fierohoho's writeup over WCF

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 03-11-2012).]

Shill MSG #459, 03-11-2012 04:25 PM
      Okay, so what is the cone shaped item pictured here for?

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 03-11-2012).]

weloveour86se MSG #460, 03-11-2012 06:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Shill:

Okay, so what is the cone shaped item pictured here for?





It's a top hat. Toss it, find some ricer to sell it to, use it for a paper weight, throw it at unruley neighbors? Lol. really though I wanna say I read here somewhere that someone had big problems using those. Whodeanie sells just the top hats with the needed bushing.

typos...

[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 03-11-2012).]

Shill MSG #461, 03-11-2012 06:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by weloveour86se:


It's a top hat. Toss it, find some ricer to sell it to, use it for a paper weight, throw it at unruley neighbors? Lol. really though I wanna say I read here somewhere that someone had big problems using those. Whodeanie sells just the top hats with the needed bushing.

typos...



Okay, so i won't worry about them then. What is/was their intended purpose?


weloveour86se MSG #462, 03-11-2012 06:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Shill:


Okay, so i won't worry about them then. What is/was their intended purpose?


They are to hold the top of the spring in. Somewhere around PFF is a person that used those and it caused the springs to move all around up top. IIRC they actually sheered the cone part. Wish I could find it, sorry.

Think those cones are for hondas or the like I think.



Shill MSG #463, 03-11-2012 07:02 PM
      I'm having a heck of a time trying to find what I want. Can someone help me with my search?

I've tried for 5"/7" shock sleeve, coilover, coil-over, etc...

I'm looking for 350lb springs and 7" sleeves. I'd like to eventually be able to lower the car as low as possible and be able to raise it a bit higher than stock during the winter.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 03-11-2012).]

weloveour86se MSG #464, 03-11-2012 07:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Shill:

I'm having a heck of a time trying to find what I want. Can someone help me with my search?

I've tried for 5"/7" shock sleeve, coilover, coil-over, etc...

I'm looking for 350lb springs and 7" sleeves. I'd like to eventually be able to lower the car as low as possible and be able to raise it a bit higher than stock during the winter.



Just installed a set of Whodeanies coilovers. 300lb springs with a 2.8. The 350lb spring rate might be too stiff with a 2.8 i think.

Summit has some nice springs, I'm sure there are cheaper ones out there tho. I'ts all about inner and outer diameters of the parts too.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-102-5300/

Heres another link. Second link is cheaper but the springs are junk at 400lbs spring rate. I would use just the sleeves and perches from the second link with the Summit springs and a Whodeanie top hat. Get a new KYB or Monroe strut and cut of the spring perch like shown above in this thread. Walla, coilovers.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-102-5300/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HON...D6936642566421535533


Shiping costs of each of the parts, time needed to make the mods and good measure for the odd things you will need will add up. It's a worthy cause tho IMHO. Coilovers shoulda been factory I also think. It's that much of an improvement. I cant stress enough how much better my handling is.


Shill MSG #465, 03-12-2012 09:07 AM
      Alright, so curious about how the coilovers work for adjustability. When the nut is at the top of the sleeve, the car will be sitting higher, and the bottom will be at its lowest, right? What approximate location on the sleeve will be stock height with a 12" spring as recommended in the OP? right in the middle, top, 3/4 way up?

scott0999 (scott099@juno.com) MSG #466, 03-12-2012 12:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Shill:

Alright, so curious about how the coilovers work for adjustability. When the nut is at the top of the sleeve, the car will be sitting higher, and the bottom will be at its lowest, right? What approximate location on the sleeve will be stock height with a 12" spring as recommended in the OP? right in the middle, top, 3/4 way up?


about 1/2 way. heres mine tightened just about 2 turns

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


Tha Driver MSG #467, 03-12-2012 01:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Shill:


Okay, so i won't worry about them then. What is/was their intended purpose?


They go over a shock shaft at the top to hold the spring. They don't work on struts.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


Fiero Tom (tmorris86@gmx.com) MSG #468, 10-24-2012 09:08 PM
      Anyone using a dust boot when they make there coil-over, wouldn't you want to protect the seal?

Tom Slick (tom.slick@northtexasfieroclub.org) MSG #469, 01-29-2013 10:30 PM
      what other strut can be used besides the usual suspects e.g. Koni, KYBs, and Monore?

thanks...


85sliverGT (zymogenesyst@hotmail.com) MSG #470, 03-01-2013 05:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:
I was thinking of flipping the upper plate around (the one with the rubber bushing in it) as was mentioned above.


Did you end up doing that? Its been brought up a couple times now but i haven't seen anyone confirm this works ok


jon m MSG #471, 05-09-2013 01:39 PM
      I am just about ready to install my coil overs long story short - got the strutts and springs from a member on here - but the coil over sleeves them selves was way worn out due to excessive rubbing, so ordered from summit a new set and the welded 3 tangs onto the spring plate to avoid the spring moving of its centre thus preventing any rubbing on the coil over and a piece of rubber for the spring to rest on




a little close up of how it looks





here is the standard spring housing with 3 notches taken out to accomodate the 3 tangs. (yes you could just use m8 bolts through the holes - but my thinking is in wet weather it would give a little more protection to the upper area of the suspension housing)





here is the completed strutt (minus the original spring housing) - i put on a moog suspension bushing as recommended earlier on in this thread





will post pics once I have fitted and adjusted them

jon



tehmaxfactr (bmaxey@bankersteel.com) MSG #472, 05-29-2013 10:55 PM
      A couple of questions I have... First the springs you guys are using seem kinda soft. I have a Miata which is lighter and I run 530 lbs springs in the front and 350 in the rear. This car is my autocross car, but i want to start doing my Fiero next year. Secondly doesnt want one do a set up of these coil sleeves on the front? All i see is pictures of rear coilovers.

jon m MSG #473, 05-30-2013 12:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tehmaxfactr:

A couple of questions I have... First the springs you guys are using seem kinda soft. I have a Miata which is lighter and I run 530 lbs springs in the front and 350 in the rear. This car is my autocross car, but i want to start doing my Fiero next year. Secondly doesnt want one do a set up of these coil sleeves on the front? All i see is pictures of rear coilovers.


I have never seen the front with coil overs on - as most people either fit lowing springs or cut 1 or 2 coils of the stock spring which is acceptable due to the type of spring on the front - one thing to bear in mind with the front also is that the damper and the spring are located separately not like the rears where the spring fits on to the damper.

jon


tehmaxfactr (bmaxey@bankersteel.com) MSG #474, 05-30-2013 06:24 PM
      thanks Jon. thats what I was wondering about. I am looking to run mine for autocross purposes next year so I would want something a bit stiffer than a regular lowering spring. Have any suggestions?

jon m MSG #475, 06-01-2013 03:29 PM
      without going off topic ref front suspension - now I am guessing here (as I am no expert ) what about koni adjustables as you adjust the stiffness of the ride and a set of front lowering springs ( i have suspension techniques) which i got from a member on here who I believe bought just the front set from jc witney then used QA1 12 300 springs in the rear over sachs or kyb strutts with coil overs on.

[This message has been edited by jon m (edited 06-30-2013).]

zkhennings MSG #476, 08-02-2013 02:53 PM
      I just made myself some rear coilovers with my Konis. I got an AFCO coil over kit from Summit Racing for Monroe shocks/struts, 7 inch sleeves. I also got 350# 10 inch springs from summit racing.

I am posting to explain how I got my springs off because it was super easy and required no specialty tools.

1) With your whole car still assembled, blast the exposed threads on the top of the shock with PB blaster or whatever. Clean the threads up if they are corroded.

2) Grab the appropriately sized socket and allen wrench (this is if the impact gun will not get the top nut off)

3) Put the socket on the nut and grab it with vice grips. Insert allen wrench into the hex opening. Turning the vice grips, both of the nuts came right off.

4) Jack the car way up - This decompresses the springs.

5) If the threaded portion of the strut does not go through the hole in the bushing, I used a combination of kicking my wheels down and I took a punch, put it in the hole where the allen wrench goes and hammered until it popped through.

6) By now your spring is decompressed, and I unbolt the strut with an impact wrench from the rear knuckle and remove it, and after I take off the hardware still bolted to the car. When you reassemble there is no compressing of the spring necessary

This saves you having to get spring compressors which are a pain to use, and it is much quicker than using spring compressors. Sorry if everybody knew this already or someone posted it on another page of this thread, I did not feel like reading through all of it.


GODFATHER (sandroauto@sc.rr.com) MSG #477, 09-27-2013 01:09 PM
      Does anyone have updated part numbers for the sleeves?
Thanks
Joe


S-toon MSG #478, 09-30-2013 03:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GODFATHER:

Does anyone have updated part numbers for the sleeves?
Thanks
Joe


Here is what I have on my car.

Here is the kit I bought. 7 in Long, 2-1/2 in Diameter, Kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all64141

I used these springs. Coil-Over Spring, 300 lbs./in. Rate, 10 in. Length, 2.5 in. Diameter
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-102-5300

On KYB struts.


GODFATHER (sandroauto@sc.rr.com) MSG #479, 10-01-2013 12:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by S-toon:


Here is what I have on my car.

Here is the kit I bought. 7 in Long, 2-1/2 in Diameter, Kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all64141

I used these springs. Coil-Over Spring, 300 lbs./in. Rate, 10 in. Length, 2.5 in. Diameter
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-102-5300

On KYB struts.


The 2 1/2 in diameter was that outside or inside? The strut outside diameter itself is 2 in and 2 1/2 would fit pretty loose.


S-toon MSG #480, 10-01-2013 01:36 PM
      The 2-1/2" is for where the part (idk what its called XD) the springs sit on. That's why you need springs that also have 2-1/2" dia. Like the ones I posted. The ID of the sleeve is a bit over 2" and slip right on KYB struts and the metal ring the sleeves come with barely fits so that it won't move around the strut.

Check this thread out. will explain a lot better then I could and has lots of pics http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/118751.html
I used that as a guide when making mine. I used the same springs as him but not the sleeves as wanted to buy parts from same place so I just found some like it from summit to get everything from one place and that is what I found.


NightMare Cruiser MSG #481, 01-29-2017 09:02 PM
      Can someone help me find the springs and adjusters?

NightMare


Lou6t4gto (loubreslow@gmail.com) MSG #482, 04-05-2017 01:54 PM
      DITTO BUMP

Spadesluck MSG #483, 04-23-2017 08:35 AM
      Amazon is where I got my stuff from. You just need to make sure you look for the correct spring for your application

Sleeve

Spring


Fiero Vampire MSG #484, 05-05-2017 07:55 PM
      Anyone know a good place to get the 2.17 sleeve for use with Koni shocks?

ltlfrari (dave_ellis_@hotmail.com) MSG #485, 08-17-2018 11:19 AM
      Don't know if it's been posted before (too lazy to go through whole thread to find out) but I am about to build my own coil overs using kyb struts and found these useful videos from Arraut Motorsports about cutting the perch off.







str8maxn MSG #486, 09-23-2019 10:42 PM
      Hello everyone, I am attempting the coil over mod but some how got it wrong. I have 5" Sleeves, 12" 350 lb springs on new KYB struts with perch cut off. Passenger side had no issues when I lowered the fiero. However on the drives side, the strut rod pushed into the engine compartment.



I am sure I put together both sides in the same manner. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


msweldon (marc.weldon@mindspring.com) MSG #487, 10-16-2019 12:07 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by str8maxn:

Hello everyone, I am attempting the coil over mod but some how got it wrong. I have 5" Sleeves, 12" 350 lb springs on new KYB struts with perch cut off. Passenger side had no issues when I lowered the fiero. However on the drives side, the strut rod pushed into the engine compartment.



I am sure I put together both sides in the same manner. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Did you ever figure out your issue? strut mount plate mis-assembly?


str8maxn MSG #488, 10-22-2019 12:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:


Did you ever figure out your issue? strut mount plate mis-assembly?


I ended up removing the strut and starting all over. I must have did something different the second time around because I avoided the issue. Not really sure what but its dropped properly now. I have not had the chance to drive it yet as I am rebuilding the front end. I am hoping to have this completed soon. I can't wait to see the Fiero dropped on all four corners.