JohnWPB 1986 GT Fastback worklog
Topic started by: JohnWPB, Date: 12-03-2010 12:28 AM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000146.html


JohnWPB MSG #1, 12-03-2010 12:28 AM
      Well, I guess it is about time, that I start documenting everything. I bought the car about a year and a half ago, and decided to start the work log, and catch up to where I am now. I figured it was best to hold off, and do a post with more than just a picture of the car a year and a half ago, and start a thread with a little more info.

How it began:
I have always loved the lines of the Fiero and 2 seater cars in general. I found a 1986 GT Fastback about 100 miles from me, and decided to take the plunge. The car was pretty rough, and I was told that it ran decent when it was put in his garage. I picked it up for $400. I had to have it hauled home on a flat bed truck, as it was not running, and all 4 tires were shot. So bad in fact, I could reach through the side walls of a couple of them and touch the inside of the rim.

Here it is the day I bought it, backing up into my driveway to "dump it off"



Some shots of the car they day it got here:

The seats are shot, and someone did a half arsed job at trying to install a sub in the console.

A nice mess under the front trunk, hood, deck, whatever anyone wants to call it







The engine, with most everything disconnected: (A white Plenum... Really????)



It had been sitting so long, the tires not only were dry rotted, they just fell apart!


About a week later, after hooking everything back up (PO started removing wiring and such, to do an engine swap, that he just stopped at the early stages of) I fired it up for the first time. The engine had a VERY sever knock, enough that I backed away in anticipation of a rod flying out at me! On top of that, the typical, as I have learned now, cracked manifolds in the back.

I started to look at engine swaps, and determined it was just more than I wanted to tackle at the time, and found a nice 2.8 replacement about 350 miles from me. The owner's engine in his Fiero went bad, so he bought a crate engine, assembled it and installed it in his car. He drove it from Colorado to Florida, and after getting here, decided that even being a brand new engine, thinking it would be much "peppier" he decided it was still not good enough, and decided to do a V8 swap. Thus the 2.8 was for sale. I rented a U-Haul, and went to Jacksonville Florida to get it. It was covered with a tarp in the corner of a large garage. I paid the $300 and brought it home. The best guess is the engine, according to him, has around 2,000 miles on it. Judging by the block when I got home, and later the rockers and such, that seems about right from what I can tell. The block still has that brand new shine to it, and is not even surface rusted. The lifters when I replaced the valve cover gaskets looked like they were not a day old, and the oil was nice and clean. It was not leaking oil, but I figured the engine is sitting here, may as well replace all gaskets while everything is super easy to get to. From there I put all new parts on the engine as well. New A/C compressor, water pump (metal impeller) new alternator, belts, hoses, plugs wires cap, rotor ect ect.

So, out with the old:



And in with the new:


I am NOT a mechanic, but can do the little stuff. I had friend who is a mechanic put the engine in for me. He had never done a swap on a Fiero, and the concept of taking an engine out the bottom was a new experience to the both of us! hahah! What would take some on here a matter of hours, took us a couple months from starting to remove the old engine, and starting the new one. This was not steady work, but him coming by maybe once a week for a couple hours in the evenings.

So, now the engine is now in the car, and purrs like a newly born kitten! Shew done...... Woah there!!!! Not so fast! Come to find out the transmission on this engine is frozen up for some reason (Automatic tranny) Using even long channel locks on the shifting plate on the tranny, even with a LOT of force, it will not budge in any direction! I walk over to my old engine, and sure enough, you can shift it through the gears by simply turning it with my hand. So now to go back 4 steps, take off the tranny from both engines and swap them.

So, while they are separated, why not?


We figured it would be easier to just lift the motor a bit, and drop the tranny and replace it. WRONG! It was a royal pain, and would have wound up being easier to just drop everything again. Oh well, Live and learn!

Here is the engine hoisted up to swap the tranny's:




So my tranny from my blown engine, put onto the new engine, it all goes back in the car again. Finally done, I was able to take the car around the block for the very first time!

Here is the second time it was started, I forgot to record the first time a couple minutes earlier...




In the mean time, between visits from my mechanic, I was plugging away at getting other stuff on the car done. The first place to start was the front.

I removed the headlights and snapped another picture:




After a lot of cleaning, taping stuff off, sanding, I painted up everything nice and pretty. I printed out a new RPO sheet, and did up some vinyl stickers to finish off some of the little touches:




I also started cleaning and painting stuff to go back in the car when the engine was back in. Here are some of the parts I started with:



And how they look after lots of sanding, priming and painting:




Well that's about it for this first post. I have done some of the interior work, and will post about that in the days to come.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-21-2011).]

pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #2, 12-03-2010 12:34 AM
      <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< your doing it wrong.. needs more getrag ... good luck with the build john I'll be looking in on it.


exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #3, 12-03-2010 12:43 AM
     
love these kind of threads !

Congrats and keep the updates coming,..looks great so far.


JohnWPB MSG #4, 12-03-2010 01:10 AM
      PK, I know I am gonna get a lot of flac about having an automatic transmission, but that is what I intentionally went with. In South Florida, the stop and go traffic is brutal. I would literally be shifting non stop. Ya would get the nice humm at the top end of 2nd gear, just about to up shift, and bam, brake and down shift instead....

This car is not gonna be for racing, but for pleasure and taking to an occasional show. I love the feeling of control with a stick shift, don't get me wrong, but more so when on the open road. My best friend has a Mini Cooper 'S' and I make him let me drive it every chance I can get Man that is a fun little car!!!! But for use as a daily driver, in rush hour, twice a day, I opted for an Automatic.

PS and with no stock cup holder, I would be spilling my iced tea all over the place!

PPS: PK, are you feeling alright man? You did not mention IMSA in your post?!?!? Someone call 911 ! ! !

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-11-2011).]

pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #5, 12-03-2010 01:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

PK, I know I am gonna get a lot of flac about having an automatic transmission, but that is what I intentionally went with. In South Florida, the stop and go traffic is brutal. I would literally be shifting non stop. Ya would get the nice humm at the top end of 2nd gear, just about to up shift, and bam, brake and down **** instead....

This car is not gonna be for racing, but for pleasure and taking to an occasional show. I love the feeling of control with a stick shift, don't get me wrong, but more so when on the open road. My best friend has a Mini Cooper 'S' and I make him let me drive it every chance I can get Man that is a fun little car!!!! But for use as a daily driver, in rush hour, twice a day, I opted for an Automatic.

PS and with no stock cup holder, I would be spilling my iced tea all over the place!

PPS: PK, are you feeling alright man? You did not mention IMSA in your post?!?!? Someone call 911 ! ! !




Lol well if you day isant complete without it.. My IMSA has a stick shift . lol just messin with ya.

You and me seem to have diffrent opinions on stick shift i geuss. I love stick shift. I love being in complete control of my car. I prefer stick for a pleasure driver. but as i said keep up the fgood work


datacop (datacop@gmail.com) MSG #6, 12-03-2010 01:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pontiackid86:
Lol well if you day isant complete without it.. My IMSA has a stick shift . lol just messin with ya.

You and me seem to have diffrent opinions on stick shift i geuss. I love stick shift. I love being in complete control of my car. I prefer stick for a pleasure driver. but as i said keep up the fgood work


I think he's saying the same thing.. he prefers a stick for a spirited driving..

But, rush hour commute in south Florida is *NOT* pleasure driving.. Though, maybe if you had a job you would know that? <grin>


pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #7, 12-03-2010 01:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by datacop:


I think he's saying the same thing.. he prefers a stick for a spirited driving..

But, rush hour commute in south Florida is *NOT* pleasure driving.. Though, maybe if you had a job you would know that? <grin>


Well in turn from running my grandma and dad back and forth from doctor's appointments in rush hour almoast every day i know exactley what he means..



cornersonrails (webearthly@yahoo.com) MSG #8, 12-03-2010 07:26 AM
      Oooo! Does this mean you will be driving to Frazee next year?

[This message has been edited by cornersonrails (edited 12-03-2010).]

Fiero84Freak (hhraganiv@ualr.edu) MSG #9, 12-03-2010 07:42 AM
      That drivetrain and front compartment clean up that you did should be inspiration for all Fiero owners with such areas in need of attention. It shows a lot of patience and work can produce very amazing results. Good job.

nmw75 MSG #10, 12-03-2010 07:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

PK, I know I am gonna get a lot of flac about having an automatic transmission, but that is what I intentionally went with. In South Florida, the stop and go traffic is brutal. I would literally be shifting non stop. .....


I lived in West Palm for 2 years. I had a 5 speed S-10 at the time.
I know exactly why you kept the auto!


Edit to add:
The front trunk looks great!


Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #11, 12-03-2010 08:13 AM
      Nothing more rewarding than taking a dirty ugly thing and make it pretty. Did you use gloss black on the front compartment? Looks nice

JohnWPB MSG #12, 12-03-2010 09:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Nothing more rewarding than taking a dirty ugly thing and make it pretty. Did you use gloss black on the front compartment? Looks nice

I used Rusteolum Laquer paint from Home Depot. It's about $5 a can.



I have learned a lot from rattle canning parts on the car. I found the hardest part, is to use just the right amount of paint. Too little, and it will not come out smooth. Too much and it will run. I found that I had to put it on pretty heavy, but stop just before it seems like it could run. I didn't think I could get such a nice smooth finish with a rattle can, but it came out pretty good I think. I used it on the brake booster and entire front trunk area.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-19-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #13, 12-05-2010 04:29 PM
      Was just going through some pictures, and ran across this one. It was taken with my iphone, and it was almost dark, so it's not the greatest picture. It was taken when we changed the automatic transmission, with the engine still in the car. As mentioned above, that was a mistake in the first place! Anyhow, I bet most have not seen an engine in a Fiero like this! With a little more work, we could have actually taken the engine out through the top!




I will say, that the proximity of the engine in relation to the rear window had me on pins and needles the whole time!!!!!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-11-2011).]

fieroguy123 (fieroguy1@yahoo.com) MSG #14, 12-05-2010 11:48 PM
      Great work john! I fully expect to see that pretty little trunk of yours in frazee 2011! Lmao! Seriously though, you gotta drive that thing up, meet us in indy and we'll make the rest of the trip together. I have extra room at my place for you to crash even. Looks like we've got a good number of cars goin this year from the indy area.

JohnWPB MSG #15, 12-27-2010 05:57 PM
      Oh, here is some of the interior work I have been tinkering with.

Being I am going to have a CarPC in the car, I purchased a RcJoyCon to use some of the one wire remotes by Sony and others to control the PC. I intend to use the buttons as labeled , except for the "Source" button in the center. That one will be used to trigger the system to listen for voice commands when speaking to the system. EA: "Play artist Journey", "What is the weather forecast for today" ect ect..
When I got the remote/input pad, it was illuminated in orange:





The entire interior of my car is going to be based on blue back-lighting. I wanted this the same way, and thought a simple change of colors on the back of the plastic was in order. After taking it apart, I find these VERY tiny SMD LED's surface mounted on the board.

They are about the size of a half of a grain of rice! There is no way I have to skill to solder something like that! DIY_Stu to the rescue! He had the know how, tools and SMALL SMD LED's in blue. I shipped it off to him, and in a matter of a couple of days it was done! MUCH better!


I plan to put this in the center console, right in front of the arm rest, giving easy access while driving.


On the subject of the interior lighting being blue, I had to change the color of the dash as well. The needles on the gauges needed to be changed from factory orange. I took them all off, removed the orange paint, and re-did them in a transparent blue.

Here are the needles removed, and all orange paint removed except for one of them:



Now spraying them with the transparent blue. (I rolled over the electrical tape to hold them in place while painting them.... I found out the hard way they are so light, that they moved while spraying them )


And here they are, all lit up from behind. The gauges are the reverse glow gauges, and the numbers and Fiero logo light up in a bluish white.




I did a tutorial on how I changed the needle colors here:
Changing the needle color Tutorial

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-13-2014).]

Hulki U. My-BFF (adweigle@hughes.net) MSG #16, 12-27-2010 06:16 PM
      Hey John, looking good! (the car not you ) Hey just a little bit of advice that will help you down the road with that auto trans. Change out the torque convertor solenoid and the third gear switch while you have the trans out, if it;s still out. A failing TCS can make you have a bad day, but thankfully mine gave me a little warning so I was able to just unhook it for now until I replace it. When it starts to fail, it will make the car want to stall when you slow down, kind of like leaving the car in third gear and not pushing in the clutch while taking a 5 MPH turn.

P.S. Those gauges are friggin' sweet!!! Love the blue.

[This message has been edited by Hulki U. My-BFF (edited 12-27-2010).]

JohnWPB MSG #17, 12-27-2010 10:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

Hey John, looking good! (the car not you )


Don't lie Hulki! I saw you checking out my butt at Tyler's car show LOL. Thanks, I thought the needles came out good too. I can't wait to get all the power hooked to em and see the reverse glow gauges and needles all lit up in the dash. I plan on replacing all switches in the car with backlit ones done in blue, windows, electric mirror switch, trunk popper ect.

Too late for the sensors Trans and engine all in the car now. Got to take it around the block a couple of times and it ran really good! It has been timed, but have some adjusting to do, as it feels a little bogged down when you punch it. I Can't go much further with no lights at all on the car I have removed everything getting ready for painting, all molding, quarter windows, all sunroof hardware, marker lights, tail lights ect. I have to wait to get it to the paint shop, then gonna take out the front window as well. It is delaminating in the corners pretty bad, so gonna have it replaced. I figured was a good time to remove it just before painting it.

JimmyS has offered to come over after the first of the year to help me with the installation of his 355 bumper and side scoops. Who better to have the help from that the person that makes them!

Still trying to figure out one last thing for the exterior. both side windows are scratched up pretty deeply from the PO not replacing the dew wipes I don't think there is any type of buffing that can get the scratches out, as you can easily feel them when running your fingers over the glass.

I have been working on stuff that I can bring inside to do for the most part. All summer I had been waiting for some cool weather, and as they say, be careful what you wish for! It skipped cool and went right to cold. It's gonna be around 30 degrees in the morning, and windchill in the low teens. I know, I know, nothing compared to what you guys deal with in the "great white north", but thats COLD for here!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-20-2012).]

DIY_Stu MSG #18, 12-28-2010 12:20 AM
      Hey John that thing it still sitting on my counter with everything going on I just keep overlooking it.
That laquer paint it looking great.

PK. I have an auto in my 87 and I have complete control over it. Just gotta know how to work it.



JohnWPB MSG #19, 12-28-2010 12:50 AM
      Well Stu, I said you had it done in a couple of days after getting it.... I said nothing about it being about 5 months ago that I sent it to you and have yet to see it back here LOL JK, I told you I was in no hurry, as I have not started on the console as of yet.

Yea, I can vouch for that! When I was riding with Stu at Tyler's Car Show, he never once let his auto shift on his own. Started out in L1 at every stop, and would push the revs up before changing into 2nd and so forth....



82-T/A [At Work] MSG #20, 12-28-2010 08:19 AM
      Wow, that front compartment looks awesome!!!

I've already painted my entire front compartment with the VHT Chassis Epoxy, but I think I may do my brake booster in that laquer you posted... definitely looks nice!!!



DIY_Stu MSG #21, 12-28-2010 12:46 PM
      but it looks so much nicer installed in my car!

JohnWPB MSG #22, 01-11-2011 02:05 AM
      WooHoo! Well I just talked to JimmyS today. He has kindly offered to drive a couple hours over from the other coast and help me install his Ferrari F355 Style #2 bumper (With side molding inserts) and his GT Style #1 Side Scoops. The date is going to be the last Saturday of this month, the 29th.


Of course will be taking pictures during the whole process and posting them here in the work log.

In the mean time I tackled the nasty fuzzy thing on the interior firewall.



Removing the carpet was not too bad, but man they used TONS of staples to hold it in place, and had to use needle nose pliers to get them all out. The surface was pretty smooth, but had bumps and rough spots as well. I decided to you a 1/4" fuzzy backing to help hide any blemishes when the vinyl was attached.


Laying down the vinyl was pretty basic, just cutting out and lining it all up. After it was cut to the right shape, I used 3M spray adhesive to start attaching it. I used clamps to hold it in place till it dried.


I think it came out fairly decent, and certainly an improvement over the fuzzy stuff that was on there before.


Here it is installed in the car. Not bad for a couple hours work.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-19-2014).]

JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #23, 01-11-2011 02:54 PM
      I'm excited.



JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #24, 01-30-2011 09:54 AM
      Pics, pics, pics.... I want pics

infinitewill MSG #25, 01-30-2011 11:15 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-01-2016).]

JohnWPB MSG #26, 01-30-2011 04:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JimmyS:

Pics, pics, pics.... I want pics


Wow, It was done less than 24 hours ago, gimme a chance

Ok, here are some pictures:

First off, attaching the mesh with 2 part epoxy from the inside. (I Will have to tape them off when the car is painted)



Jimmy starting to remove the rear fender well to get to the bolts to remove the old panels:



Here is the old panel off, and no, I have NO idea why Jimmy is doing the Hula Dance there in the background!
The blue on the back quarter panel was just a rattle can test to try a blue that I had in mind for the car....




Here is the new scoop all bolted and riveted in place:



As for the front bumper, take all the bolts out, then its off with the old:




And in with the new! (I just set the parking lights in there to take this picture)


The front bumper is not attached in any way yet. It needs to be drilled and a couple small places, the fiberglass needs to be sanded for a nice clean fit. This will also give me a chance to take care of the rust, and get that all painted to help prevent it from coming back or getting worse.

I had a great time hanging out with Jimmy Dean.... err....ummm... Jimmy AND Dean rather We talked about a lot of great ideas, shared stories and chowed down on pizza. It was a great day, and look forward to going over to Jimmy's in a few weeks to help out and meet everyone that's gonna be there.


Jimmy has something in the works, that is going to be awesome when it's ready! I hope to get the first one from him when it is ready It is going to make a mod that I have had planned all along, a LOT easier! When he is ready, he will share more about it

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-30-2011).]

JohnWPB MSG #27, 01-30-2011 05:38 PM
      I was toying around in Photoshop a little bit... this is a rough idea of what I am wanting to do with the front bumper. Keep in mind, that the car is going to be blue when I am done with it.



Hulki U. My-BFF (adweigle@hughes.net) MSG #28, 01-30-2011 06:50 PM
      I didn't know you were cloning PK's car. J/K John. It's looking great, can't wait to see it in Frazee.

JohnWPB MSG #29, 01-30-2011 07:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

I didn't know you were cloning PK's car. J/K John. It's looking great, can't wait to see it in Frazee.


LOL!

Yep you will see it in Frazee, as I will make sure to bring pictures with me


JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #30, 01-30-2011 07:56 PM
      Goodnight Samantha.

Hulki U. My-BFF (adweigle@hughes.net) MSG #31, 01-30-2011 08:04 PM
      Curious why there are no pictures of you working on the car, John. I realize it might mess up a fresh manicure, and oil stains on your skin while flocking to the beach would truly dampen your day, but you must do something?

JohnWPB MSG #32, 01-30-2011 09:05 PM
      Well I was the one with the camera! I had to keep remembering to go pick it up to even update with pictures at all. I did do some of the work, but in all honesty, other than epoxying the mesh in the scoops, Jimmy did most of it. It's kinda a one person job, and nothing I could really help with at most parts of it.

@ Jimmy: Samantha says good night



JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #33, 01-30-2011 10:09 PM
      John,

Don't forget, you got to use a rivet gun for the first time.


JohnWPB MSG #34, 03-13-2011 08:23 PM
      Well, I got some work done on the car today! A buddy of mine came over (He used to do custom interiors) and helped me out. We started with ripping everything out, and playing with cardboard. The mock up face plates were made for the A/C controls, the Head Unit, and the 10" touchscreen for the CarPC:




Next was to hot glue the individual pieces together and see how the curves, sizes of stuff, and everything lined up.



And here it is in the car to see how it all is going to look when we actually start the console:


I still have yet to shorten the shifter, and I swapped out the T-Handle for a Camaro shifter. Also, looking at the photo again, I see the whole console will actually be going towards the front a couple more inches. It is almost butted up against the shifter in the photo.

I decided to go with the A/C controls on the bottom, as they are pretty shallow, and can go in on that angle. The head unit on the other hand is much deeper, and would not fint on the bottom, unless it was almost level.


Next will be to take all the measurements of the cardboard pieces and transfer it to the 1/8" door skin I have here. Glue all that together, make final adjustments and then delve into the fiber glassing of everything.

It's all pretty rough right now, but I can at least finally get a picture of it in my head of how it is going to look.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-13-2011).]

mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #35, 03-13-2011 08:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I still have yet to shorten the shifter, and I swapped out the T-Handle for a Camaro shifter.


You mean your not swapping your GT to a manual??

Looking good, keep up the good work.


Pappy MSG #36, 03-13-2011 10:15 PM
      That looks fantastic!

Keep the Pics rolling in


JohnWPB MSG #37, 03-14-2011 12:26 AM
      Ok, it's dark outside, and no garage to work in..... So what to do?

Fire up Photoshop of course! This is a VERY rough idea of where I am headed. The corners will be rounded in the actual version, but it gives me something visually to work with, and alter from there in the real world.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-16-2011).]

JohnWPB MSG #38, 03-15-2011 11:51 PM
      The more I think about this, the harder it seems I am making it.... I am trying to figure out how to attach the console & secure it, without having screws visible all over the place. I plan on covering the sides in vinyl, and having that come over the lip of the console just a bit, with the blue piping. Any suggestions on some sort of design to hide the screws and such?

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-10-2012).]

craigsfiero2007 (craigscorvette@gmail.com) MSG #39, 03-16-2011 12:02 AM
      You could counterbore your holes out for the screws then make little plugs for them. Just one idea.

DIY_Stu MSG #40, 03-16-2011 12:15 AM
      Use the Trees that the doors use.

Use Rare Earth Magnets

Use Super Glue.

Baling Wire and Duct Tape.


yardee MSG #41, 03-16-2011 03:38 PM
      Thats NICE!!!!!!!!

JohnWPB MSG #42, 04-17-2011 01:25 AM
      Ok, not much of an update, other than what is to be done, not what has been done

Well, after working on this custom center console, I got to thinking, the dash is still going to look very stock in comparison. DIY_Stu was telling me about Archie moving to a new shop, and he was unloading some stuff, including a fiberglass dash cover. So I had a look, and ordered one.

It is a slide over cover, that covers the instrument cluster "pod", and has a nice spot to install a full size glove box. It was manufactured to just slide over the existing dash. I am going to remove the upholstery from my stock dash (It's pretty cracked anyways, so no loss there) and permanently affix this cover to the stock dash, making a drop in replacement dash. With some cutting and fabricating, I intend to mount some nice 6" round speakers where the 4 x 6 ones were. I also am going to change the knee knockers....errr.... A/C vents to round ones, and relocate them a bit.

I figure if I am covering the original instrument cluster, and doing some fabrication, I may as well swap out the instrument cluster entirely So I started looking around, and I just purchased a digital dash from mattwa out of a Cavalier Z-24. It is a pretty easy swap, as it uses all the same sensors as the Fiero, and is a wire-to-wire swap for the most part.

My plan is to remove the bezels and such from the digital dash, and put a smoked Plexiglas cover over the whole thing. I will have some additional "Dummy lights" along the top of the dash showing when the CarPC has power, when cruise control is on ect ect. I also have a back up sensor system that I will put behind the glass as well. It shows the distance to objects behind the car when backing up.

This is the dash cover from Archie:

From the top:


Front of the dash:



This is a quick PhotoShop job, on how I am planning to install the cluster in it:


I am also putting a blue gel (The plastic sheets they put on stage lights to change colors of lighting colors on a stage) over the gauges, to make the dash more blue instead of the existing teal.

I still have a lot of fabrication work to do, but It is all starting to come together as to how it will all be done now.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-17-2011).]

JohnWPB MSG #43, 05-02-2011 09:24 PM
      Just a small update....

I purchased a 2nd generation set of headlight motors from mrfiero, with the complete wiring harness. Neither of my motors worked, and figured it would just be best to go with the gen2 instead of repairing my gen1 motors.

I spent a bit of time this afternoon cleaning up the motors, sanding a bit, and removing black paint from the plugs and the wiring that was on there from the previous owner. I then taped everything off, and hit them with some rattle can black lacquer paint.

I will soon be getting a set of Fiero1Fan's headlight buckets, then re-wrap the wiring harness with all new wire loom. Once that's done, get them in the car, and check headlights off the LONG list of "To-Do's" list

Here's what the motors look like now with a bit of elbow grease applied generously



And the motors installed in the housings. (Still waiting to get the Timo headlight buckets)

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-06-2011).]

JohnWPB MSG #44, 08-06-2011 11:17 PM
      LONG time no update! Time to fix that....

It is has been HOT here, as well as most everywhere else this summer really..... I do not have the luxury of an air-conditioned garage, so I am waiting till the weather cools down a bit to get back into the Fiero for the most part.

In the mean time, I just got back from Frazee, attending the 2nd Annual Tyler Shipman Memorial Car Show. DIYStu brought up, and hand delivered a set of Timo's buckets to me. It is the last piece of the puzzle, as far as the headlights are concerned. I purchased a set of Gen2 headlight motors, complete Gen2 wiring harness, the headlights, plugs, painted up the motors and mounting ect ect... Now that I have the buckets, I should be able to put it all together.

I sanded down the bare metal buckets with some really coarse sand paper, to scratch them up a bit. I then cleaned them real good with some TSP to remove any oil ans such. I then hit them with self etching primer yesterday. This morning, I painted the first coat of black on them, and this evening the second coat. I will let them cure a couple of days, and then wet sand them down, and hit them with one more coat, before topping it off with a generous coat of clear.

Here are the buckets with the 2nd coat of paint: (Fairly smooth for not sanding the paint at all yet)



The lights and hardware all ready to install when I finish up painting the buckets:




ThatFieroKid MSG #45, 08-07-2011 12:49 AM
      This is a wonderful build thread! Subscribed.

JohnWPB MSG #46, 08-07-2011 02:25 AM
      Well not much of a build thread so far, more of a "getting everything ready for the build thread". Now that I have all the parts, and direction where I am wanting to go, I hope to start seeing some visible progress soon!


JohnWPB MSG #47, 08-23-2011 04:05 PM
      [2 weeks ago]

Above, I detailed how I painted the headlight buckets..... big mistake

After they dried for a few days, in a hot shed I took a buffer wheel, on a medium speed, with car polish to give them a nice glassy shine. I had barely started when EVERY layer, the primer, paint and clear started to peel off like the surface had been sprayed with Pam cooking spray before I painted them!

I can see now way, that they I could possibly have painted them any better, or with better prep. So, lesson learned, I will never try to paint stainless steel again in the future. At least when it has been galvanize coated. They are now at the Tolliver Powder Coating here in West Palm Beach, and should be ready for pick-up in a couple of days. I gave them instructions on masking off the area where the headlight bolt holes are counter sunk for clearance.

[ 1 week ago ]

I got the headlight buckets back, paid for the work, and went to the car and unwrapped them. The first thing I noticed is the fact they did not mask off the counter sunk mounting holes! I told them they forgot, and he says he does not remember any mention of masking anything off, and he had to go check with someone on how to handle it. As he left, I noticed my work order behind the counter from a few minutes ago when I paid for them. I reached over and grabbed it Right there on the work order was a nice hand drawn sketch, and arrows pointing to the 8 holes to mask off. When he returned he started to say something about they were not responsible, when I handed him the work order. He changed what he was saying really fast haha! He said they would have to sandblast them, and re-do them.

I called a few days later and they said they would be ready on Friday afternoon. I stopped by Friday just before closing, and they were sitting right where I left them in the "received parts bin". I was not happy to say the least, he said that someone changed the schedule, and they would be painted next week sometime now. I let him know how unhappy I was, as it was going on 2 weeks now!

[ Today ]

I got a call at 8am saying that they were done. I went on lunch and picked them up. As I unwrapped them, I think the first words to him were "are you serious?!?!" I wanted to throw them against the wall of something LOL! I was quite truthful, and told him that is the worst powder coating work I had ever seen.

Here, you be the judge: (Forgive the crappy cell phone pictures)

Not pictured are 3 runs and drips on bucket#1, enough of a drip that it is almost a 1/2 long!

Inside of bucket #1



Outside of bucket #2




It is VERY hard to tell from the photo's above, but the buckets were glass smooth, Zink galvanized steel. From the pictures they look as if they were almost rust buckets when they started!

I talked to a manager, and he assured me that they would correct this, and would put a rush on it to have them done ASAP. As he was looking at the job they did, I had this feeling that when I left someone was gonna get really really chewed out. You could just see it in his eyes and expression while he was looking them over.

So, now I sit and wait, and wonder how they are gonna look this time.......

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 09-07-2011).]

ThatFieroKid MSG #48, 08-23-2011 04:17 PM
      Wow, what a fiasco with the powdercoat! I hope they'll do it right this time.

JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #49, 08-23-2011 05:38 PM
      After all this trouble I hope they give you some sort of refund!

JohnWPB MSG #50, 09-07-2011 02:28 PM
      Well I called them last Wednsday, and they said they could not mask off the counter sunk holes! Are you kidding! This is what your company does for a business LOL! They said they were going to sandblast them (3rd time now) and to come pick them up, and they would refund my money.

So, I just picked them up and I am LIVID! They blasted away all of the galvanized Zink coating! On top of that, I think they left them outside for a week, and now they are rusting! I called Fiero1Fan in Germany, and he said they absolutely will need re-galvanized. If any speck of rust is on them, and they are powder coated again, it will continue to rust underneath.

To top it off, like this isn't enough... they bent the H E Double L out of them! I am just fuming right now!!!! I called them back, and am trying to resolve this in some manner, and he asked me to send him photo's in email. So I just sent the pictures to the manager.

This photo shows how bent up they are now:

(Pictures will be posted shortly, PFF Image poster is acting up... AGAIN!)

( EDIT: I had to use Image Shack for now, as PFF Image Poster just refuses to work today )


This Photo shows how bent up they are now:




This photo shows just how nicely rusted they are:




A far cry from what they looked like well over a month ago when I dropped them off:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-06-2014).]

ThatFieroKid MSG #51, 09-07-2011 04:19 PM
      Worst service ever. I really hope you can get this whole thing resolved.

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #52, 09-07-2011 06:58 PM
     

John you gonna have it ready for Daytona 2012 ?


Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #53, 09-07-2011 07:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

...
A far cry from what they looked like well over a month ago when I dropped them off:
...



That sucks. If you want we can do them on my oven. Soon I'll be powder coating some parts again. BTW, I think I'll beat you on my GT restoration






JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #54, 09-08-2011 12:42 AM
      Try and get the manager to buy you a new set of buckets. If he won't, then find out who the owner of the shop is and get him to buy you a set.

Danyel MSG #55, 09-08-2011 01:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JimmyS:

Try and get the manager to buy you a new set of buckets. If he won't, then find out who the owner of the shop is and get him to buy you a set.


And if he buys you a new set .. I'll buy those destroyed ones off of you (let me know)



infinitewill MSG #56, 10-31-2011 08:05 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-01-2016).]

JohnWPB MSG #57, 11-18-2011 02:42 AM
      Well, decided to get back into working on the car, I was waiting till the weather cooled off a bit, but that does not seem like it is going to happen any time soon! 85 today, and 78 tonight.... I do wish I had a air-conditioned garage to work in!

Anyhow, I started to cover the other seat with my Mr. Mike's seat covers, and he was there with me, helping me out every step of the way I got the bottom done, and will do the back of the seat tomorrow.

Here is what I started with:



While I had everything apart, I took the time to sand down the frame rails, and primer and paint the rails, bolts and such with Semi-Gloss black. Nothing worse than putting the beautiful new seat covers on, and see rusty frame rails and bolts underneath the seat!



(My $99 HP TouchPad with Android CM7 installed )

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-19-2011).]

JohnWPB MSG #58, 11-18-2011 06:15 PM
      Ok, seats are all done!

Here is a closer photo of the seat rails. As I mentioned, I have seen SOOooo many beautiful interiors posted on the forum. New dash, new seats, new headliner, carpet and on and on....and in the same photo, rust on the seat rails. While I had the seats apart, I painted up all the hardware.



Fastening up the lower part of the back of the seat:



And all finished...



Here is the completed drivers seat, all put back together and ready to install.



Just another thing I can cross off on the VERY long list of things to do!

Now, to head to the mall, and post that I need the covers for the reclining mechanism for both seats

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-18-2011).]

ThatFieroKid MSG #59, 11-18-2011 06:22 PM
      Those seats look great!

JohnWPB MSG #60, 11-21-2011 09:59 PM
      Ok, working some more on the interior.... I took the door panels off, and found some rusted up bits. It will never be seen, after the door panels are back on, but decided to sand up the rusted bits, and then primer and paint in a semi gloss. This will prevent the rust from getting worse. I am not sure of this is the case, but hopefully, coating the rusted bare metal, will also git rid of that "rusty smell" LOL. I have nothing to base this on, but I do think that rusted metal has an odor to it, so it can't hurt!

Here is the door when the panel was first removed:



And here it is all cleaned up, primered, and a coat of paint: (The red parts that are showing in the photo, is actually a reflection of the bright red T-shirt I was wearing when I took the photo! LOL )



I finished up recovering the door panels. The bottom part is Mr. Mike's lowers in Electric Blue to match the seats, and I did the top part of the door in Black AllSport vinyl.



So, with the seats done, and the door panels in place, I set the seats in the car to get my first idea of how the interior is going to look....



TONS more work to do of course, but a little at a time I guess......

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-21-2011).]

VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #61, 11-21-2011 10:25 PM
      Looking good John !!!

Hope to see it in Frazee next summer !!!

I know, I know it will be just you !!!

It will be nice to see your smiling face anyways............


ThatFieroKid MSG #62, 11-21-2011 10:30 PM
      Wow, I love that color!

Vernon8360 MSG #63, 11-22-2011 08:21 PM
      He said he would bring pictures didn't he? We wouldn't want to have him get all that hard work dusty, on a long drive from WPB to Frazee. Assuming, of course, he can find the keys.



VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #64, 11-22-2011 09:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Vernon8360:

Assuming, of course, he can find the keys.



Keys have been gone for months !!!


americasfuture2k MSG #65, 11-24-2011 12:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

PK, I know I am gonna get a lot of flac about having an automatic transmission, but that is what I intentionally went with. In South Florida, the stop and go traffic is brutal. I would literally be shifting non stop. Ya would get the nice humm at the top end of 2nd gear, just about to up shift, and bam, brake and down shift instead....

This car is not gonna be for racing, but for pleasure and taking to an occasional show. I love the feeling of control with a stick shift, don't get me wrong, but more so when on the open road. My best friend has a Mini Cooper 'S' and I make him let me drive it every chance I can get Man that is a fun little car!!!! But for use as a daily driver, in rush hour, twice a day, I opted for an Automatic.

PS and with no stock cup holder, I would be spilling my iced tea all over the place!

PPS: PK, are you feeling alright man? You did not mention IMSA in your post?!?!? Someone call 911 ! ! !



oh damn, the traffic is that bad out there? what is the traffic in surrounding areas? in say like Ft Lauderdale? looks like i need to research every aspect of living before i make a final decision of where to move.


JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #66, 11-24-2011 08:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by americasfuture2k:


oh damn, the traffic is that bad out there? what is the traffic in surrounding areas? in say like Ft Lauderdale? looks like i need to research every aspect of living before i make a final decision of where to move.


Traffic in Fort Lauderdale is going to be even worse than West Palm. Miami is even worse. I live in Fort Myers and the traffic here is even bad. My work is only 15 miles away and it takes me 45 min to an hr to get there.

I would go crazy with a manual trans. I go crazy enough as it is just trying to use my cruise control.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 11-24-2011).]

yellowstone MSG #67, 11-24-2011 09:19 AM
      Not wanting to hijack the thread but it all depends on your own decisions on where to live and work. We're in Miami (between downtown and midtown) and walk to work or take the bicycle. My wife's car gets used mostly for shopping (until the new Publix is open nearby and we can do that by walking, too) and the Fiero only for fun. If you feel you need to have a McMansion in the suburbs and commute insane distances, then you have a traffic problem.

 
quote
Originally posted by JimmyS:


Traffic in Fort Lauderdale is going to be even worse than West Palm. Miami is even worse. I live in Fort Myers and the traffic here is even bad. My work is only 15 miles away and it takes me 45 min to an hr to get there.

I would go crazy with a manual trans. I go crazy enough as it is just trying to use my cruise control.





JohnWPB MSG #68, 01-18-2012 05:54 PM
      They say it's all in the little details.... well I should be covered then! The parts may be little, but the time to do them is crazy! Stripping, sanding, primering, sanding, painting ect ect....

Anyhow, been working on stuff behind the quarter windows of the car a little at a time.

Firstly The shock mount area, before:




and After: Both the left and right looked the same)




Next all the little nuts, bolts, screws and the washer cap thingies. The vacuum canister was in really bad shape when I started... I was surprised that it came out as good as it did!




I finally put a passenger and drivers side seat cover mechanism pair together. One was tan, the other was gray... Not any longer




Lastly, at least for now, are the quarter window rear inserts. The had turned almost gray from years of sun and engine heat.



A closer shot showing the nice satin finish:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-18-2012).]

ThatFieroKid MSG #69, 01-18-2012 07:39 PM
      Nice job with the paint! Looks like a professional job.

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #70, 01-18-2012 08:07 PM
      I'm looking forward to see this car finished. Did you see that detail on the door inner HW??

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #71, 01-18-2012 10:22 PM
      awesome work John. I'm so glad I came across this thread. you do some beautiful work. Ok tried to edit my capitalization, but the touchpad is fighting me... lol!

i wanted to see the gas needle thread but the link will not redirect and gave me a dead page.



JohnWPB MSG #72, 01-18-2012 11:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ThatFieroKid:

Nice job with the paint! Looks like a professional job.


Thanks for the compliment, it has been a lot of trial and error trying to use a rattle can to get good results. One day I will buy a compressor big enough to use a real paint gun


 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:
i wanted to see the gas needle thread but the link will not redirect and gave me a dead page.


I have it bookmarked, and would not work. Took about 10 minutes to find it searching! The title of the thread did not work as a search. Sometimes I just do NOT understand how the PFF forums work. The tutorials are to help others when they are trying to do stuff.... how they are supposed to find it, I have no clue haha!

Anyhow, I did finally find it in the archives:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-111043.html

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-18-2012).]

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #73, 01-18-2012 11:47 PM
      The attention to detail in this build puts many of us to shame.

Beautiful work.

Keep raising the bar.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 01-18-2012).]

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #74, 01-19-2012 09:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


I have it bookmarked, and would not work. Took about 10 minutes to find it searching! The title of the thread did not work as a search. Sometimes I just do NOT understand how the PFF forums work. The tutorials are to help others when they are trying to do stuff.... how they are supposed to find it, I have no clue haha!

Anyhow, I did finally find it in the archives:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-111043.html



Awesome... thank you! I would have tried to search but I had no clue what exactly to search... And with the habitual odd titled threads that exist seeming to never match what the thread is about... ugh! Don't get me started on the issues I have trying to figure out the favorites tab... I registered in 05, and I just found out how to find my favorites a month ago! LOL!

Now if I could figure out why I have not been able to see any PIP pics in 3 days... maybe I could enjoy the forum again! Work and their darn use of explorer... grrr... not sure what changed in the past 3 days... and the Wifi is so spotty that the touchpad can't keep a lock...



JohnWPB MSG #75, 01-22-2012 04:44 PM
      Ok, still plugging away at the engine compartment. I got the strut towers, washers and all that painted up and done.

Here is a photo of where it stands now:



When I walk outside, and open the decklid, I notice what catches my eye first that needs to be done. Slowly, over time, less stuff is catching my eye

The cruise control vacuum thingy for the cruise control was next on the list. The bracket was pretty rusted up, and it's something I forgot to do when the engine was out and the inside of the compartment was painted. The bracket was really rusted, but with some cleaning, grinding and primering, it looks like it will come out good.



Next on the list of things to do, is the Upper plenum and valve covers. I bought a set in the mall, so I can have them completed, then just swap them in, instead of leaving the engine open while they are being done. Here is what they looked like 2 days ago, just before I took them to get them hot dipped. I will get them back on Monday. They are some of the worst I have seen. I don't know if this engine was sitting at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean or something!



When I get them back, I am gonna do my best to grind the plenum down, and try to get it as smooth as possible. When done, I want to get them powder coated in an amazing blue I found. It is a 2 stage process, first you have to do them in reflective chrome, then a translucent blue over the top of that. It looks to be a lot of work, but if it comes out like this, it will be worth it!



The color is from Eastwood... I found it here:
http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat_Specialty

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-22-2012).]

Vernon8360 MSG #76, 01-24-2012 02:46 PM
      Step by step, John. Looking good and I'm sure it will continue to look better and better. You must, repeat MUST bring your machine to Frazee for the 5th annual. Pictures alone will not be acceptable.

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #77, 01-24-2012 08:26 PM
     
Better yet, if the car is running, it is definatly worthy to be shown at Daytona (March),.... finished or not.

Just some awesome work being done on this project.



JohnWPB MSG #78, 01-31-2012 06:48 PM
      Still plugging away a little at a time...

I had the glass installer out to install the new drivers and passenger glass I purchased from them. When he got the door apart, the regulars were REALLY rusty. There was no way to continue, and install everything back when he was here. I took the regulators apart, motors off ( and almost lost my thumb in the process...LITERALLY )!


The passenger side is too far rusted to repair, and a new one is in the mail from InfinateWIll.




I have the drivers door regulator all ground, sanded, primer, painted and greased up, and all ready to go back in:




Hopefully with freshly cleaned, painted and greased tracks, and new window motors, they will be significantly faster than before!

I continued working on the A/C vacuum canister, bracket, cylinoid and such, and have those completed. I just have to let the paint cure a couple more days before I reinstall everything.



I have been grinding and sanding away on the upper air intake, to get it nice and smooth to be powder coated transparent blue, like in the photo's a couple posts up. It is more time consuming than anything else, and just work on it in between other items I am working on.

Slowly but surely, it's getting there.....




The next small project will be the brackets for the throttle cable, and a few other items that were not done while the engine was being swapped. As mentioned before, I walk out, open the decklid, and see what catches my eye that has not been done yet, and work on that. When I get that piece / section, rinse and repeat.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-19-2014).]

blakeinspace (blakeinspace@yahoo.com) MSG #79, 02-01-2012 08:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by infinitewill:

Hey John, did the buckets get worked out? That shop should just replace then instead of butchering them up even more!



wondering the same thing?... John, did your bucket scene get resolved?

BTW, nice job on the repaint of parts. I can hardly believe that is rattle can!


2.5 MSG #80, 02-03-2012 09:38 AM
      Gotts love fresh paint, its like an addiction theres always something else that can be sanded primered and painted.

Lookin good.


MC2Rush (james@mc2photos.com) MSG #81, 02-03-2012 10:58 AM
      I've got a intake manifold that looks just like the color posted above. It's a 3 stage powdercoat: Silver Blue and clear with the letters in black. I have it on the car right now as I get the original one powder coated a different color... But it's coming back off in a couple weeks if your interested. PM me if you're interested.

If not, these should give you an idea of what the finished product will look like.

All the work so far looks great btw!





[This message has been edited by MC2Rush (edited 02-03-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #82, 02-03-2012 12:59 PM
      Wow, that looks great! I would take you up on the offer possibly, but I am looking to do the valve covers blue to match.

JohnWPB MSG #83, 05-07-2012 11:26 PM
      Nothing new.... Lots of other stuff going on right now, so Fiero has been covered for a while. I am just keeping the thread from going to the dreaded archives!

canfirst (canfirst@mymts.net) MSG #84, 05-08-2012 02:30 PM
      Congrats on your new acquisitions and amazing refinishing of parts!

What paint did you use on the quarter window rear insert frames, was it Rustoleum black satin or ??

I guess your too busy with this build to do some RPO code sheets.

I would really like some done for my two Fiero's. Any idea when you will be back doing them? You did a terrific job with the RPO code form, it seems a shame to give-up on it now.

Hope to hear back some positive news from you. Keep up the great work!
Cheers,
John



JohnWPB MSG #85, 05-08-2012 02:59 PM
      Yea, its been a lot of sanding, sanding and more sanding everything! Yes, you are correct, it is Rustoleum satin black. It came out looking like the original plastic, and not like it had been painted.

As for the RPO sheet's, I have not given up, I just need to find a better ink, that does not react so bad to water. I should have something ready to go hopefully in the next couple of weeks.


JohnWPB MSG #86, 05-08-2012 07:25 PM
      I am getting ever so frustrated, that I swear I just want to throw in the towel on this restore. Every little thing has fought and fought me along the way.... I have the headlight buckets "Professionally" powder coated, and they screw them up a total of THREE TIMES! Almost ruining the Timo buckets as they were stripped of their coating between tries and started to rust....

I call a glass company, order 2 windows, and go to have them installed. The guy that came to do them the first time, spent 3 hours and got really no where, other than to get the regulators out that were corroded, I fix what I can, and replace one of the tracks, and call him out again. This time he spends 3 more hours, and has problems getting the rivets out of the tracks, as well as removing the guide from the old glass. He comes back a third time, and manages to BREAK the passenger window! It takes them 5 weeks to get another glass, and I get a call 2 days ago they are gonna come out and install it.

The latest is when I powder coated the upper plenum in Chrome, it out gassed and bubbled. It took 2 hours and all sorts of strippers and one heluva mess to get it all cleaned up and ready to go again. I heated the plenum for over an hour at 450 as recommended to make sure any trapped gas was removed before powder coating. This all done, I laid down the chrome powder on the already hot plenum, and it came out amazing! No bubbles, and a perfect chrome like finish! Before it cooled, I switched to the transparent blue to coat again, to give it a nice blue candy effect. This powder was manufactured by craftsman, and seemed a little coarser when I opened it to fill the canister. The AllPoderCoat chrome is a much finer powder.

Well, I set it all up, and started to spray, and clumps and chunks came out of the powder gun! It made a blotchy mess of the plenum, and ruined all the work up to this point... yet again!




This is getting ridiculous, and frustrating.... so frustrating in fact, that I now have to have to order a replacement powder coating gun, as something "happened to it" when it started spitting out clumps of powder ruining hours of work..........

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-08-2012).]

Pete Matos MSG #87, 05-08-2012 07:36 PM
      Wow man ain't that a ***** ... Never fails when you are wanting to do something cool that it rains on your parade. Don't feel bad, go take a break, watch a movie, drink your favorite cold beverage, kiss your wife and kids and remember that you are blessed to be able to have such a cool project going. Then after you get sufficiently chilled out go back and kick it's ass!! hehe good luck man and peace

Pete


canfirst (canfirst@mymts.net) MSG #88, 05-09-2012 01:01 PM
      John,
Thank you for confirming the Rustoleum satin paint on the plastic quarter window frame inserts. I will definitely give that a try, but have not had good success with rattle-can paint application as I usually get paint runs.

Regarding the RPO code tags, would laminating them be a possible solution?
Spray adhesive or rubber cement could be used to mount the laminated RPO tags to the fender, just a thought.

I'm sorry to read about all the obstacles your encountering with your build and the "accident" you had with your Craftsman powder coat machine. If you purchased it with a credit card, some credit card Companies such as Visa will replace the item if it's lost, stolen or broken within six months of the purchase date. Thought I would throw that out there just in case and keep my fingers crossed for you.

I'm sure your not the only Fiero owner to encounter overwhelming hurdles, it's part of the restoration process and we just have to grin and bear it because in the end it will all be worthwhile, and we can be very proud to show-off our accomplishments.

Hang in there and keep up your amazing work!
Cheers,
John R.


2.5 MSG #89, 05-09-2012 01:46 PM
      Its hard to get good help these days

Keep the Fiero spirit John! Perfection takes time!


JohnWPB MSG #90, 05-09-2012 02:52 PM
      The part I am not looking forward too, is another 2 hours cleaning off all the powder coat again

Here is a better picture of what happened to it. If it was not for the clumping of the crappy, inferior, no good for nothing clumping Craftsman powder, it would have came out correctly.

This was done by heating the part to 450 degrees for an hour, taking out of the oven, and spraying on the chrome, which melted on contact and looked great! I then switched to the blue, and with the intake hot, the clumps melted in place, with no chance of fixing it....




2.5 MSG #91, 05-09-2012 03:13 PM
      That actually looks like a style. If you did the valvecovers the same.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-09-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #92, 05-09-2012 04:35 PM
      LOL, I DID, kinda think that... reminds me of that glaze from pottery class back in school, the one that turns all different colors.....

Not the look I am going for though.....




2.5 MSG #93, 05-09-2012 05:03 PM
      Could maybe see if that will sell, and use a different intake so you don't have to strip it?

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #94, 05-09-2012 06:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
..
Here is a better picture of what happened to it. If it was not for the clumping of the crappy, inferior, no good for nothing clumping Craftsman powder, it would have came out correctly.
....


I thought you got rid of that crap when you tried it at home. That was no good for sure. Get some good powder and a good gun. Also I'm not sure the parts should be that hot that the powder should melt when touching it. The baking is part of the curing process. Just a thought.


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #95, 05-09-2012 10:06 PM
      Geez... I can t believe all your luck. I think u brought some of my luck home with yah! I've never tried using powder coat. Only done tri stage with paint. Been pretty successful with the rattle can! I sure hope your next shot goes smooth. Looks like its gonna be beautiful when its done! Just breathe and go at it again!



JohnWPB MSG #96, 05-16-2012 05:11 PM
      Ok, I bought the ver last can of Permatex gasket remover in the tri-county area it seems! This stuff works fantastic for removing powder coating! The problem is, that it seems to have been discontinued, as in no longer manufactured! The guy at my local part store, (By local I mean just 3 stores locally, and they KNOW parts and service!) called 3 distribution warehouses, and can not get it any longer If any one wants this stuff, I suggest calling local parts stores, and googling it and buy it up while it is available!

This is what it looks like:



I sprayed the intake with it, let it sit like 5 minutes, and washed it with a good spray nozzle. This is what it looked like after the first spray down:



I repeated this about 3-4 times till all ill powder coating was off. Once you spray it once, the top layer washes right off, and the rest becomes kinda "goopy" and won't just rinse off. Thus, why I did it a few times. If you have a pressure washer, you could probably spray it on, let it sit 5 minutes, and hit it with the pressure washer to remove all of it in one shot.

Once it was all removed, I sanded it lightly and degreased it all over again. This was like DeJa'Vu! After that, I put it in the oven at 450 for an hour, to heat it up and remove any gasses and such that created the bubbles 2 times ago when I did this! I took the part out, and with it still hot, hit it with the chrome powder coating. (The new Craftsman gun came in the mail yesterday ).

This is the result:



I have to say, for just a plastic coating, that is melted in, it really does compare fairly closely with chrome.

Here is a nice close up, so you can see the reflection of my iPhone, and the cement it is sitting on:



I am now waiting for the transparent blue powder to get here, tomorrow or the next day, to finish it off.



2.5 MSG #97, 05-16-2012 05:15 PM
      I'd just leave it like that, thats purdy!

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-16-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #98, 05-16-2012 05:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I'd just leave it like that, thats purdy!



Hahah! I honestly can't say that that thought didn't cross my mind

Especially, since the valve covers are done in chrome already as well........




Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #99, 05-17-2012 08:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I'd just leave it like that, thats purdy!



DITTO. Is the blue powder the same brand as the one before? Just think of doing this for the third time


JohnWPB MSG #100, 05-17-2012 10:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:


DITTO. Is the blue powder the same brand as the one before? Just think of doing this for the third time


Nah... No.... Nope... NO! NO! NO! Are you KIDDING ME! ! ! ! haha I will NEVER use Craftsman brand powder coat material EVER again.

This time I bought the same brand (AllPowderPaints.com) as the chrome I used. They have a huge selection of colors, at almost half the price of Eastman. The color is called "transparent Mountain Blue". I will put a layer on, and then go over with the final layer of clear to finish it off.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-17-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #101, 05-17-2012 05:51 PM
      Victory is MINE ! ! ! ! After all the bumps in the road, and problems, I think I finally got it LOL!



I am very happy with the results! Now I am in the process of sending the brand new Craftsman Powder Coating Gun back! I didnt notice till I started, it is cracked everywhere! This has allowed it to get out of shape so to speak, and it is virtually impossible to get the powder cup off to refill it. There were quite a few reviews saying it is of very cheap build quality, and that is an understatement. I think I just got lucky with the last gun... not so much with this one.

I have the valve covers to match in the oven curing now......


Danyel MSG #102, 05-17-2012 05:53 PM
      .... by the way John I'm still waiting on that CD



JohnWPB MSG #103, 05-17-2012 09:39 PM
      Ok, got the valve covers done... so here are the 3 all ready to go! Just need to order a upper gasket kit, and get ready to swap them out.




I was going to do the silver stripes, like the stock part that is left bare from painting.... Looking at the photo of the blue plenum like mine (Top post on this page) I decided to do it all blue instead. With the nature of the candy coating, the grooves and top portion of the cutout on the plenum reflects light differently, giving it a natural 2-tone appearance.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-18-2012).]

mrfred8 MSG #104, 05-17-2012 10:50 PM
      looks great! even better then this blue engine

very blue engine

[This message has been edited by mrfred8 (edited 05-17-2012).]

2.5 MSG #105, 05-18-2012 09:46 AM
      Lookin good man!

blakeinspace (blakeinspace@yahoo.com) MSG #106, 05-18-2012 10:04 AM
      awesome... after all that... you better stay in the 2.8/3.4 pushrod motor family!...

almost a work of art there!


kendallville MSG #107, 05-18-2012 11:00 AM
      LOOKS GOOD keep going on the posts it give me ideas for my clean up that I wouldnt think of otherwise.
Your right it all in the details small thing add up.


JohnWPB MSG #108, 05-18-2012 11:48 AM
      What is neat with the candy coating, is that it really does change shades of blue, depending on how the light hits it. None of the pictures above, no matter how hard I tried to take the photo's, matches the way the parts look sitting next to me here. I did a quick video on my iPhone, to try to capture it a bit better than a still photo.


[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-18-2012).]

2.5 MSG #109, 05-18-2012 12:00 PM
      Look at it under a fourescent light it'll look even more striking

Vernon8360 MSG #110, 05-19-2012 01:24 PM
      Looking great. I can't wait to see how the keys turn out.

JohnWPB MSG #111, 05-19-2012 02:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Vernon8360:

Looking great. I can't wait to see how the keys turn out.



Hmmm I am not sure what you are talking about?



JohnWPB MSG #112, 09-22-2012 02:01 PM
      Ok, long time no update, and time to keep this thread out of the archives. It has just been too hot here to work on the car, and have been waiting for Fall and Winter, which are just around the corner. The new door glass is all in, as well as new window motors, so that's at least one more thing to mark off the list

mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #113, 09-23-2012 02:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Ok, long time no update, and time to keep this thread out of the archives. It has just been too hot here to work on the car, and have been waiting for Fall and Winter, which are just around the corner. The new door glass is all in, as well as new window motors, so that's at least one more thing to mark off the list


Yay! Friendly bump


JohnWPB MSG #114, 11-09-2012 04:30 PM
      Ok, the weather has FINALLY started to cool down here! It has energized me to get back to work on the car. Just as I start to work on it a bit, the community I live in is giving me grief about a "non running vehicle" in the driveway. I have to get it taken care of with in a week or 2.

So, I decided to take it up and get it painted, so I can put everything on the exterior back together, and they can no longer say anything. I started to put the tail lights on today, and wouldn't you know it, another problem. (If you have read this thread, you know EVERY little thing I try to do, I get blocked by something... every single time). This time, there appears to be 2 lights on the left tail light assembly "missing". I think strange, looks like the fell inside the bumper or something.... As I look all around, I can not find the wiring harness, or any marks where it would have ever been attached like the other two clusters. Really!?




It's starting to get dark now, so I will wait till tomorrow, and dig deeper, and see if I can find where they could possibly be, have been, or should have been.



CaptDean (iicaptaindean@aol.com) MSG #115, 11-09-2012 07:37 PM
      PM SENT

JohnWPB MSG #116, 11-10-2012 05:31 PM
      Ok, spent this afternoon working on getting the car to start and run correctly. Joey and his wife Jan came down, and were a LOT of help! Thank you!

Joey found that the TPS was only getting 3.1 volts, so I changed out the module for a new one, on a whim, and sure enough, the TPS is now getting its full 5.0 volts. The fuel pump is putting out around 21 PSI, a slight bit low, but good. Going back 20 minutes later, its still holding at 21 PSI, so there are no back flow problems and such.

Joey is coming back tomorrow, and we will continue to trouble shoot it.

Oh, Jan, was able to actually use her tiny hands and arms to reach up between the back bumper and wheel wells. She felt the 2 "missing tail lights" and was able to route them around the left, and now are in place where they should be! Problem solved!


infinitewill MSG #117, 11-10-2012 05:57 PM
      Woo Hoo! Closer by the day

JohnWPB MSG #118, 11-10-2012 10:01 PM
      Ok, digging through some boxes, I found a new Throttle Position Sensor that I purchased some time ago. I was sure that I had bought one, and just could not find it today while Joey was here. So I started digging tonight, and found it I replaced the bulbs in my two 500w halogen shop lights, and installed the TPS. Now to wait till tomorrow and hopefully get it running correctly.

For quite a while, it has just so overwhelming on what all has yet to be done. I would just look at it, get discouraged at it, and put the car cover back on it LOL. Now I am getting a bit of a "second wind" again, and actually wanting to work on the car and get it done.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-10-2012).]

BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #119, 11-11-2012 02:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


I thought it looked good like this too!


Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #120, 11-11-2012 07:48 AM
      Did you write in the other thread that you are getting 21 psi fuel pressure?


JohnWPB MSG #121, 11-11-2012 10:07 AM
      Yes, it's reading 21 PSI, and holding for at least a half hour when going back to check.

I just talked to Joey, and he is on the way down. I have to go get some fresh fuel, and then hook up the laptop. Hopefully with the new module, and the new TPS, we will get some good numbers, and be closer to getting it going.


EDIT:

Ok, this was with low fuel in the tank, draining all the old gas and such.... Today, after putting some fresh gas in, it is now up to 46 PSI on the fuel rail.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-11-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #122, 11-11-2012 03:43 PM
      OK! All is well! After a little diagnosing, the TPS was getting a low voltage, around 3.2 volts. It just so happened I had a new Module here, so I went ahead and installed that, and the same goes for the Throttle Position Sensor. After replacing those 2 items, I left it alone last night.

This morning, I put some fresh fuel in it, and Joey got here about an hour later. We turned the key to the on position, and was getting around 50 PSI fuel pressure. So things were looking good. Joey forgot his laptop, so after downloading and setting up all the software, and the drivers for the Serial <-> USB converter and getting that all set up, we gave it a try. The software was not seeing the data connection to the car, and we puzzled with that for quite a while till he finally got it to work (about 2 hours later ). Now that the laptop was ready for some new readings, he asked me to turn it over to get some readings. I did, and Vroom! It immediately started! Go Figure! So it was something with the module, the TPS, or a combination of both it seems.

It starts easily now, and runs perfect, other than idling just a little but high around the 1,000 RPM range.

Here is a quick video of getting it running this afternoon, as well as some of the readings on the laptop from Tuner Pro:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-21-2013).]

JohnWPB MSG #123, 11-13-2012 10:27 PM
      Ok The time has come! ! ! ! ! Every time I would get ready to paint the car, something else financially would come up.... three times now, one including having to personally fly my sister-in-laws dog to Puerto Rico, after I spent $1,200 on it for surgery!

Well, no more! The car is in the paint shop finally! I got to drive it for the first time today on the road. It ran and drove great! I was so paranoid, as I had no side markers, no front bumper, and no seat belts!

Here she is sitting in the paint shop:



You can see the front bumper in the background, a 355 bumper from JimmyS. Also the spoiler off in the background on the left. I did some prep work getting it ready for paint. I also went around the car with a grease pencil, and circled all the small nichs, chips and imperfections that I could find, and they are going to pay special attention to those spots. Also, the windshield is being pulled out prior to painting, as it is all delaminating in the corners. I have the glass company ready to install a new one at the paint shop before I drive it home.


after looking for the past couple years at what seems like thousands of blue's, I finally settled on one. It is a metallic blue that was used on the 2007 Mustang:



I told the body shop to take their time with the car, and NOT feel like they have to rush, so they can do it right. They say it should be done the week after Thanksgiving. Then I can start to finally put all the new parts that I have stockpiled on it. To include the new tail lights, New trunk seal, new quarter windows, new sunroof track & molding, new smooth molding for hte entire car, the 3 LED side marker lights, the 4" fog lights, new emblems and stickers to replace all the factory faded / worn ones....... It's finally coming together!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-13-2012).]

Danyel MSG #124, 11-13-2012 10:34 PM
      WOWWWW that good to see there my friend ..... did you get time to send the CD ??? I put the new website on hold till I get those pics my friend...
take care ... cant wait to see the end result especially seeing ya with that grin on your face .... oh by the way a 3 LED marker light ????

Danyel



VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #125, 11-14-2012 07:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

To include the new tail lights, New trunk seal, new quarter windows, new sunroof track & molding, new smooth molding for hte entire car, the 3 LED side marker lights, the 4" fog lights, new emblems and stickers to replace all the factory faded / worn ones....... It's finally coming together!



Sounds like someone lost a side marker light !!!


Vernon8360 MSG #126, 11-14-2012 09:07 PM
      Looking good, John. Your persistence is paying off and you're going to end up with a great ride. Do I get to see it at Indianapolis or Frazee?



JohnWPB MSG #127, 11-16-2012 10:56 AM
      Here is a brief video I shot while driving the car to the paint shop. I have never driven a car in this state of disrepair before LOL!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-19-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #128, 11-19-2012 04:23 PM
      Update Time!

Ok, I got a call from Willie at the paint shop today, telling me they were putting on the first coat of primer if I wanted to come down and have a look.

When I got there, they were working on the fiberglass above the tail lights. My mechanic, kinda a big guy, broke it when leaning in to work on the engine. The repair job looks great, could never tell a good 7 inches of it had cracked and broken off.

The glass guys showed up as well, to take out the windshield. They had one helluva time! It took them the better part of an hour. The rubber had completely dried out and it just did not want to cooperate.


Sanding down and prepping my JimmyS 355i front bumper:



Filling in the tons of craters in the spoiler:



After hanging around for an hour or so, I am walking to the car to leave. One of the guys whistles at me, and tells me he has something to show me real quick.... He just finished mixing up the paint. and wanted to let me see it



Here is a quick walk-around of the car, then off to the bumper, spoiler, & hood:




Willie tells me they are gonna sand the first layer of heavy primer more in the morning, and around noon shoot another layer of primer if I want to stop by and watch.... I sure do, but gotta work


2.5 MSG #129, 11-19-2012 05:03 PM
      The paint stage of a project is so exciting!



JohnWPB MSG #130, 11-19-2012 05:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

The paint stage of a project is so exciting!


Tell me about it! I started getting anxious to see it...... oh..... probably 5 minutes after I dropped it off! LOL

I warned them ahead of time, that, as part of the paying them to paint the car, is that I be granted full access to the shop to watch was part of the deal

[phone call in middle of posting]

Just talked to CaptnDean, he went over to Maaco to have a look at the car. He said it looks to him like they are doing a good job prepping it.
While I was there this afternoon, they had the mirrors off, and I got a look at the mirror gaskets. They are all warped, and hard as cement. I just ordered a pair of new ones from the Fiero Store, and will have them Wednesday. This way I can have them put them on, and not have to take the mirrors off myself when I get the car back

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-19-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #131, 11-20-2012 01:24 PM
      Wow... not a single comment on the color... I about wet myself when he opened the can to show it to me LOL!

Just headed home from work, then I am off to the paint shop to check the progress. I want to take off the black plastic cover over the key assembly in the truck, so it does not get painted. I also bought some new rubber stops, grommets and such to replace the old dried out stuff on the hood.


1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #132, 11-20-2012 01:37 PM
      I liked to color you picked out. I know that car with that front bumper will look very very nice. I was contemplating on using the same color for my rebuild, but decided to stay with white.....ok my friends made that decision for me lol.

2.5 MSG #133, 11-20-2012 01:54 PM
      Its a great color. Blue is my fave. That matallic pearly blue speaks for itself!

1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #134, 11-20-2012 01:58 PM
      Sorry double post

[This message has been edited by 1984whitesc (edited 11-20-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #135, 11-20-2012 03:10 PM
      Progress is MUCH faster than anticipated! They were supposed to have the car ready to paint the week after Thanksgiving. Now, it looks like it will be painted tomorrow! This morning they sanded down the 2nd layer of primer, and hit all the seams, jams and such with a coat of paint. They also did all of the detached parts, the fuel door surround and fuel door, spoiler, mirrors, bumper, headlight covers ect...

[While typing this I had to call and tell them, that they forgot the headlight doors, and the gas cap and surround, as it was not in the booth for the first layer with the other parts. He did a face palm when I called him LOL. He says he will have em shoot the first layer tomorrow when they shoot the car.]


Here is the car, with all the edges making sure to get a good coat of paint:


One of the mirrors:


Front bumper:


And finally, the spoiler / wing. Look at that mirror finish.... this is BEFORE wet sanding and the triple coats of clear that I asked for ! ! !



Crap! I forgot to take all the molding to them when I went over today. It needs to all be done in satin black.... Finishing this post, and headed back to the paint shop



mrfred8 MSG #136, 11-20-2012 03:16 PM
      Looking good. You are going to have to bring that up north this summer for all of us to check out.



redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #137, 11-20-2012 03:31 PM
      Wow... did I see you are having macco do the painting? Cause it looks like they are really pulling out all the stops. I'm impressed

rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #138, 11-20-2012 03:53 PM
      John,

Is this the little sweetheart you're going to bring to Daytona? If so, I can't wait to see it up close and personal.



JohnWPB MSG #139, 11-20-2012 04:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1984whitesc:
I liked to color you picked out. I know that car with that front bumper will look very very nice. I was contemplating on using the same color for my rebuild, but decided to stay with white.....ok my friends made that decision for me lol.

Always go with YOUR instinct


 
quote
Originally posted by mrfred8:
Looking good. You are going to have to bring that up north this summer for all of us to check out.


Hey Fred! Sorry, probably never gonna happen
Straight from Google:
2,094 mi, 35 hours
In current traffic: 44 hours


Now add at minimal 6 hours a night sleeping x 2 nights now makes it 66 Hours ONE way! That works out to almost 6 days of just driving and minimal sleep. That right there is one week out of my vacation! On the other hand, I fly in to Frazee, on a Thursday night, and can spend 3 full days there, and get back for work on Monday morning. Not saying that I would not love to bring the car up for the Tyler Show, just that it is totally unrealistic


 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:

Wow... did I see you are having macco do the painting? Cause it looks like they are really pulling out all the stops. I'm impressed


Damn I slipped up there... I wanted to wait till I got pictures of the completed car, all up close and personal, get responses, and then say "guess what.... Maaco!" LOL I know all the Maaco and Econo horror stories, and have personally seen them. On the other hand, I have heard good things from a couple people here locally about this perticular shop. You just have to be specific with what you want, and spend more for the paint job, than their $299 specials LOL. The old addage, you get what you pay for...

 
quote
Originally posted by rpro:

John,
Is this the little sweetheart you're going to bring to Daytona? If so, I can't wait to see it up close and personal.


This is the one and only Fiero that I own, so yeppers this is the one I hope to have it ready by March, and no reason that it should not be, barring some major snafu.


As time goes by, I get more and more anxious! Now it's just tomorrow before I probably will get to see the car fully painted and awaiting wet sanding.



mrfred8 MSG #140, 11-20-2012 06:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Hey Fred! Sorry, probably never gonna happen
Straight from Google:
2,094 mi, 35 hours
In current traffic: 44 hours

Now add at minimal 6 hours a night sleeping x 2 nights now makes it 66 Hours ONE way! That works out to almost 6 days of just driving and minimal sleep. That right there is one week out of my vacation! On the other hand, I fly in to Frazee, on a Thursday night, and can spend 3 full days there, and get back for work on Monday morning. Not saying that I would not love to bring the car up for the Tyler Show, just that it is totally unrealistic


Bring it up the 30th in Indianapolis, only about 1/2 as far

1,132 mi, 18 hours 43 mins
In current traffic: 18 hours 43 mins
I-75 N

I totally get that flying is much easier. Two pretty long days of driving that weekend wore me out. I can't wait to see your car put together.



JohnWPB MSG #141, 11-20-2012 11:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfred8:

[......] I can't wait to see your car put together.




That makes 2 of us


JohnWPB MSG #142, 11-21-2012 06:37 PM
      Well, the car is all sanded and prepped for paint! It has been a long time coming, and I can not wait to see it done this afternoon.

Here she is sitting in the paint booth:



Getting a good coat of sealer before the base coat:



Wow, I even like the look of just the base coat, a kinda slate blue in a satin finish:

I am beginning to think that this is all going way too smoothly! I think I have mentioned how every thing I do to this car, it fights me every step of the way. Even the simplest things as having someone come out and replace the door glass, and then they shatter it in the process.

Well it didnt stop today The car was all sealed, and the painter starts laying on the base coat on the rear bumper, decklid, and then starts working his way forward on the right side of the car. He got about to the front of the door, when he looks back and notices something. I see him walk over and set the paint gun down, not a good sign. The paint starts to wrinkle and fish eye like I have never seen before!

Of course the paint job is called off for the day, as it will require a complete resand, prep, and tape off of the entire back and side of the car. The floor man asked me if I had used a lot of WD40 while working on the car in the past... I was like Huh? This car has been prepped, sanded, wiped down, sealed and you are thinking it is WD40 from some time ago? Come to find out, the car that was painted, just before mine today, did the same EXACT thing. WD40 / blame towards me / blame it on fiberglass is now out the window. By the way, he never once blamed it on me as far as having to pay for a re-do, but to figure out what was causing it. He assured me it is their job to fix it, and get it done right.

Here is what the entire back bumper, decklid, rear quarter and passenger door looked like as I left the shop today:


So, now they will start to work on it Friday again, and should be done early next week. This time, I am sitting it out, and just waiting for them to give me a call to pick it up again, before I go back down there.

HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE ! ! ! ! !

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-21-2012).]

JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #143, 11-22-2012 06:03 PM
      Looks to me like they have compressor oil in their hose. He should be using a filter just before the gun but it doesn't look like it in the pics you posted.

JohnWPB MSG #144, 11-26-2012 12:25 PM
      @ JimmyS - DING! DING! DING! I spoke with the paint shop this morning, and they said the same thing. They have replaced the hoses, and are prepping the car today and tomorrow morning. They said I should be able to pick it up late tomorrow afternoon.

I am getting a little overly anxious about seeing it done! It has been consuming my thoughts all weekend!


Vernon8360 MSG #145, 11-26-2012 01:00 PM
      Deep cleansing breaths, John. In with the good air and out with the bad. Looks like they are taking pride in what they are doing and keeping their word. If the deep breathing doesn't work; there's always booze!

Fierochic88 (jgoss825@gmail.com) MSG #146, 11-26-2012 06:34 PM
      Can't wait to see the finished product :-)

~ Jen



JohnWPB MSG #147, 11-26-2012 11:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierochic88:

Can't wait to see the finished product :-)

~ Jen


You're NOT helping the situation




Fierochic88 (jgoss825@gmail.com) MSG #148, 11-27-2012 08:04 AM
      Haha, at least you can go and check on your car :-) My car was painted 3 hours away...that was a wait! But lildevil and Bills3800 did a great job and it was worth it.

~ Jen


JohnWPB MSG #149, 11-27-2012 09:53 AM
      Good news and bad news.....

Good news: Got a call at 8:30 saying the car is done, come pick it up....
Bad news: I have to work today!

I will not be able to go look at it / pick it up till late this afternoon. In the mean time, I called the glass installer, and they are headed over within the hour to put I. The new windshield.

I hope to have at least a couple pictures to post of it this afternoon.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-06-2013).]

mrfred8 MSG #150, 11-27-2012 10:15 AM
      Are you feeling Blue? just a few more hours.



2.5 MSG #151, 11-27-2012 01:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


I hope to have at least a couple pictures to post of it this afternoon.


I hope so too!

I hope so too!



JohnWPB MSG #152, 11-27-2012 09:07 PM
      WooHoo!!!! ok, so I picked up the car today, and it looks great! There are a few issues that will need some touchups, so I have to take it back in a week and a half or so after the paint cures.

So, come to find out DSL is out, so I am typing this on a minature keyboard hooked up to hy HP touchpad, running Android ICS. It is connected via WiFi to my Galaxy S3, being used as a hotspot. Gotta love technology. Unfortunately, the PFF image poster will not work on Android, so no way to attach pictures. So, I guess that you guys are now in a bit of suspense as to what it looks like, till DSL comes back up.

In the mean time, I tried to put the Fiero Store sunroof tracks in tonight...... TRIED is the key word! They stick up where they do fit, and the front rail the bolt holes do not even line up. It's gonna take some persuading to get them installed for sure.

I will get pictures posted as soon as the DSL comes back up.


87antuzzi (krisantuzzi@vzw.blackberry.net) MSG #153, 11-27-2012 09:21 PM
      upload to facebook and host it from there.

JohnWPB MSG #154, 11-27-2012 10:21 PM
      Ok, DSL is back

Of course, something had to go wrong today, it just wouldn't be a normal day for me if something didn't! LOL Driving the car home, there was some light smoke, that smelled kinda rancid, like burning paint. I am thinking that it is all the over spray on the exhaust and such. That is till I get home (just over a mile from the paint shop) and the back right tire is smoking! Great, locked caliper. I got the hose, and lightly misted it, as to not cool it too quickly and warp anything. I wanted to cool it down, as I did NOT want the paint on the calipers to catch fire, then the wheel well liner, then the battery above that... not after spending 2 G's on a paint job a half hour earlier!

Anyhow, I bought new hubs from Rock Auto just 2 days ago for the rear, and seems will just do the caliper while I have it apart.

Ok, on to the paint. This particular blue seems to be very hard to photograph! I have looked through all the pictures I have taken today. Each picture of the car, seems to be a different color! Let me say, this shade of blue is Ok, but not what I thought it was going to be. It seems to have just an ever so minute tint of red in it, giving a very slight purple to the color.


Ok, here is the first picture I took of the car, after I put the tail lights back in, so I could drive it home.
This image makes it look like a standard darker blue:




The next picture from the other side, the top looks very teal / aqua marine, and the bottom, a different blue that the first picture:



Lastly, the car in the driveway here at home. This picture is the closest to what the color actually looks like. Not exact, but close:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-19-2014).]

mrfred8 MSG #155, 11-27-2012 10:28 PM
      Wow, that looks great!

1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #156, 11-28-2012 12:14 AM
      Flames...been there done that lol. Im glad nothing really bad happened. The car looks beautiful.



JohnWPB MSG #157, 11-28-2012 11:06 AM
      Now I am just sick to my stomach.... I had leaned the spoiler against a wall, and came back an hour later, and it had fallen over. It has a huge scratch,, right across the top. Not sure what this blunder is going to cost me.

2.5 MSG #158, 11-28-2012 11:25 AM
      On the spoiler possibly they can just touch up and reclear?

Nice color, I love that teal to blue reaction with the sun, I have a car that sort of does that. Under a flourescent light such as a street light it takes on a purple-ish hue.

Dont let anything touch the paint if they told you it takes a week to cure. Dont cover it, dont wipe off dust or anything IMO. Trying to install things could lead to a damage spot too...? Make sure much later if you want to use a wax of any kind it is "breathable" just to be safe. Ask the paint shop because it seems many paints are different.


Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #159, 11-28-2012 03:09 PM
      That is a very nice blue!

eljibaro127 (eljibaro127@gmail.com) MSG #160, 11-28-2012 06:26 PM
      Did you ever mount the front bumper?

Vernon8360 MSG #161, 11-28-2012 08:35 PM
      Sweet , very sweet.

JohnWPB MSG #162, 11-29-2012 12:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by eljibaro127:

Did you ever mount the front bumper?


Not yet, actually that is another problem

When they painted it, it was facing "nose up". CaptnDean actually noticed it while he was here yesterday, that they did not paint the back lip, where it goes towards the hood. So, it has to go back to the paint shop in a week or so with the car to be another thing to touch up......



1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #163, 11-29-2012 04:08 PM
      If it's not one thing it's another.

eljibaro127 (eljibaro127@gmail.com) MSG #164, 11-29-2012 07:15 PM
      Well at macco you do get what you pay for. But overall it looks really good!

JohnWPB MSG #165, 12-01-2012 12:55 AM
      Well, in the mean time while the paint just sits there and cures, I decided to get to working on the new headliner. I got a new Fiero Store fiberglass headliner last year for Christmas. I Dremeled out the 3rd brake light area, and cut all the holes out for the sun visors. When I put it in the car, I put the right sun visor on with 2 finger tight screws to line things up. The left sun visor hole however is well over an inch off, and the headliner appears way to long on the left side. The way it is, there would be no way to put the "A" pillar back in place.... again, if it's not one thing it is another!

Anyways, well I contemplate how I am going to remedy this, I had taken the 3rd brake light out while messing with the headliner, and decided to convert it to LED tonight. Both the brake light housing from the car, and an extra one I had, are melted pretty bad from the heat of the bulb. I took the better of the two, and set out to convert it. I had some extra LED panels left over from re-doing my dome lights, and decided to put them to use. Be forewarned, It is far from professional job! It is rigged together, but gives the correct end results!

First, I needed something to attach the LED panels too, something to hold them in place. I looked around, and saw a paint stick, perfect! A little trimming later, and see how things line up:

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I cut the wood down to the correct size to fit in the 3rd brake light housing. I wanted the LED's back about a 1/4 inch from the lens, and not directly mounted to it. This allows for some light scattering, and fills the whole lens with light, and you do not see just individual LED's up against the lens. I then peeled the sticky backing off the LED panels, and stuck them to the paint stick:

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To make sure everything was secure, I ran a bead of hot glue around the edges of everything:

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The end result, nice BRIGHT brake light, and no more melting the housing from the heat of the bulb! It is much brighter that it looks in the picture, as my S3's camera reduced the shutter time to compensate for being pointed directly into bright lights! (The same work lights are still on in this photo, the same as the above photo's)

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-12-2013).]

JohnWPB MSG #166, 12-02-2012 02:51 PM
      Ok, here is something a bit different, and I actually have never heard of anyone doing this on their Fiero..... on any car for that matter!

I will pull into the gas station, and usually go inside to get a drink or something, and come back out to the car, have to unlock it, open the door, and pop that gas door. Not strenuous by any means, but a bit of an inconvenience at least.

The fix? An electric door lock solenoid, and an RFID receiver. I had my gas door and cable dissembled, as I just had the car painted, and wanted those painted separately. Today, I was at the junk yard, and saw an electric lock solenoid hanging off the rear hatch of a Ford Mini-Van. That got the wheels spinning, could I use that solenoid to open the gas door?

I got home and with a couple zip ties, a 12v power supply, I gave it a try as a proof of concept, and it worked! I then was thinking about putting a button in the dash, below the trunk popper button (I do not have a rear defogger). Then I started thinking, I would still have to open the car to press the button, that's not gonna work!....

Then I remembered I bought a cheap set of RFID receivers and key fobs a couple years ago, to use with my CarPC. I dragged one out, ran a few wires, and gave it a try, and again, it worked!

So, by simply holding my car keys within 6" or so of the RFID receiver, hidden behind the rear quarter panel, the gas door pops open like magic!

Now that I know it all works, I measured inside the car behind the "B" pillar, there is plenty of room for the RFID receiver and the solenoid to fit in there, nice, neat, and hidden!
(I will hide a monofiliment line / string behind the B pillar as a manual release in case something electronic fails)


[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-03-2012).]

infinitewill MSG #167, 12-02-2012 03:35 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-01-2016).]

rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #168, 12-02-2012 06:12 PM
      +1 from me for a very clever idea.

dajack761 (dajack761@gmail.com) MSG #169, 12-02-2012 06:19 PM
      RFID reader... Very nice idea!

2.5 MSG #170, 12-03-2012 11:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Well, in the mean time while the paint just sits there and cures, I decided to get to working on the new headliner. I got a new Fiero Store fiberglass headliner last year for Christmas. I Dremeled out the 3rd brake light area, and cut all the holes out for the sun visors. When I put it in the car, I put the right sun visor on with 2 finger tight screws to line things up. The left sun visor hole however is well over an inch off, and the headliner appears way to long on the left side. The way it is, there would be no way to put the "A" pillar back in place.... again, if it's not one thing it is another!


These are a pain. I have installed more than one. They should line up better than that, but mine were only I'd say 1/4 inch off, but it was more trouble with the 3 little screw holes than getting the center hole of the visor to line up. If it lines up with the holes in the plastic liner it didnt line up with the holes in the metal roof. Good luck and take a break and come back if it gets aggervating.


JohnWPB MSG #171, 12-03-2012 04:32 PM
      Good advice 2.5, or I am sure I would have smashed it in a million pieces... on accident of course!

So, leaving the headliner on the back burner, I decided to go back outside the car, the front bumper specifically. I bought the F355i bumper, with a slot for the belt molding from JimmyS at Fiero Fiberglass.

The bumper is molded to fit the Chrysler Sebring front marker lights. I have seen a few posts, and talked to people how they epoxied or fiberglassed brackets inside the bumper for the lights to mount to. It was something that I kept putting off, as I know nothing about how to work with fiberglass. I decided to tackle it today, and get the measurements and an idea of what would be needed.

While I was fitting the lights, I noticed that they did not fit correctly into the bumper. The one end was being held out by the part of the hole that was not removed when they light holes were cut out. So, I grabbed the Dremmel and headed for the bumper. As I was moving the light around to see where it was hitting, I noticed it was the back of the light, with alignment pins and a screw that holds the lens on, that were preventing the light from sitting flush. Looking at the way it was designed, that alignment pin and stuff was to fit into the original Sebring bumper. I decided I sure didnt need it, and on a whim, I backed the screw out, and headed to the bench grinder to grind it down a bit, and then see if that helped. That did the trick! I could now fit the light into the opening nice and snug.

Here is one of the lights that has been ground down, and the other still untouched:

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After that I was thinking about grinding down the screw, as it did not need to be so long, as I was not screwing it into a Sebring bracket. Then DING! Another though... (this could get dangerous if I keep this up)! I tightened the screw down, to where it was just the point sticking out of the back of the light, and put the light in the bumper where I wanted it. I then tightened and loosened the screw a half a turn, quite a few times to make a mark on the bumper, that I proceeded to drill a pilot hole for.

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.

After drilling the pilot hole, I lined the light back up, and tightened the screw through the fiberglass:


With that screw in the fiberglass, and the light all lined up, this was going to easy to fabricate a mount, as the light was held securely in place. It was then that I noticed the metal clip on the other end of the light.
Backing out the Phillips screw, I could tell that this was high tension spring like steel, and after losening it up, I could see that I could probably guide it over the lip in the bumper. I gave it a try and tightened down the screw. As the screw tightened, it pulled in the steel tab tightly against the bumper.

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Now, with the screw in one end, and the steel tab on the other end, I started to pull and push on the light.... it was in there really solid, and not going anywhere!

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So rinse and repeat (I did the other side the same way )
The lights are now all installed in the bumper, I'll remove the lights in a few weeks after the paint has fully cured, so I can tape up the bumper, and spray the inside of the bumper with bed liner. This way when I get the grill in, you do not see raw fiberglass through it. I also still need to find a nice set of 4" fog lights that I like to fill up the other 2 holes
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Here it is with the bumper carefully just resting on the car.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-03-2012).]

2.5 MSG #172, 12-03-2012 05:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Good advice 2.5, or I am sure I would have smashed it in a million pieces... on accident of course!



The bumper is gonna look great

Another tip on the visors, make sure they are the right direction. I once got one in and was so happy, only to find out it now would not swing over to the side window....


JohnWPB MSG #173, 12-05-2012 05:28 PM
      Today I decided to tackle the sunroof track installation. I bought new tracks from the Fiero Store a couple years back. When I went to install the front rail, the studs attached to the track did not line up. I could get one end in, and the other was about a quarter inch off. I finagled around, and eventually made the hole just a bit larger, and was able to get both studs through the roof.

I did not want ANY leaks, so I sealed up every hole with sealent. Even the ones that I had to pass bolts through This way there was a nice leal around every hole and bold, hopefully making everything water tight.

The first bit of sealent layed down... queezing this stuff onto a new paint job just felt so very wrong!

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Laying down more goop as I progress around installing each section of track:

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Here are all of the tracks finally installed:

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Here is the Fiero Store sun roof gasket installed into the new tracks:

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It seems to all fit very nicely! Here is a fairly close up of the left hand side:

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Finally, a pic from above, showing the sunroof in and completed with the new tracks and gasket:
(Yes, I am missing one screw for the latch, I will be getting that from CaptnDean when they are done painting his storage unit )

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Hmmm now what to tackle next!



rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #174, 12-06-2012 06:56 AM
      Lookin good!! I can't wait to see it fully assembled out in the sunlight.

fierolover87 (mikejohnson1184@gmail.com) MSG #175, 12-07-2012 12:09 AM
      I'm getting all excited. I hate cliff hangers!

JohnWPB MSG #176, 12-07-2012 03:28 PM
      Well. I decided to work on getting fog lights into the front bumper today. Fiero Warehouse states that they are set up for 4" fog lights. I started searching the web, and one of the ones that came up, believe it or not, was a pair at Wal~Mart for $15:




I probably will never ever use the fog lights, as I think I have seen fog here in South Florida maybe once I really just need something to fill in the holes, and look nice These are made with an ABS plastic housing but have glass lenses, that pretty much match the look of my 90mm headlights. I am not worried about the cheap mounting brackets, as they come off easily with 2 screw, and I can fabricate something that will attach on the inside of the bumper correctly.

The package says that they are 3 1/2 inches, so I figured that would be perfect, a 1/4 inch to spare all the way around to put a gasket or something. I ran up to the local Wally and picked up a pair. When I got home, I held one behind the bumper, and to my surprise, they are quite a bit too big. Looking closer at the bumper, I would not want to make the hole any larger, as then it would almost remove the raised lip that surrounds the hole. Now I am left to try to figure out what to do.... gotta think on it a bit.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-07-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #177, 12-08-2012 12:06 AM
      Well, on to some stuff I can do indoors Being I have painted just about everything on the car, as well as under the decklid and hood, new stickers were in order. I have spent countless hours, I honestly do not want to know how many!) re-creating just about every sticker for the car. From jacking instructions, Coolant filling procedures, Emission stickers, fan warning and on and on.

Here are a couple printed out on a vinyl that is made for ink jet printers, that has a peel off backing. I then covered that in a transparent laminate. This gives the stickers a nice gloss over them, much like the factory stickers.

Here is one that goes under the decklid:



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And here is one that goes under the front hood:


I am most certainly not keeping the car "true to stock", but I think replacing the stickers will give it a bit of an extra touch.

Oh, I almost forgot, CaptnDean called me, and we are going to head to the junk yard and browse around. We keep looking for Fiero's, but we never find one. Anyways, he has an idea for some fog lights, available in the junkyard. He says they are a better option for the ones that I mentioned in the previous post. Better quality & cheaper, that's fine by me!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-08-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #178, 12-09-2012 03:44 PM
      Well, went to the junk yard, no luck finding anything to fit the holes in the bumper for fog lights. I am actively searching for a solution. If anyone has installed any brand or type of foglights in the JimmyS 355i bumper, I would be more than open to a suggestion or two

I continued the LED conversion this afternoon. I placed one of the same LED lights that I posted a few posts back for the trunk light. It seems to be much brighter, and is a nice "whiter" light:

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Here is a photo of it installed. You can also see the nice new InfinateWill trunk seal. Everything is still very dusty and dirty, and will be till they do the final touchup's on the paint.



I got a few more of the stickers reproduced. I am almost done with them. The next step is figuring the best way to produce them, and have them just like the factory ones. My ink jet printer will not work. I can get a nice vinyl made for Ink Jets, but the ink is far from waterproof!



.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 09-08-2013).]

JohnWPB MSG #179, 12-10-2012 12:05 AM
      Well, I just purchased a set of fog lights on eBay. They have aluminum housing, and glass lenses. They also have a halo ring, that can be used for daytime running lights. There are very few options when searching for a 3" fog light!




They are listed all over the place for around $70. With a Google product search, I was able to find a set for $35.
I should get them in a week or so, and hopefully they will fit, and I can check this off the very large list of things to do!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-10-2012).]

Khw (i3ite_ivie@msn.com) MSG #180, 12-10-2012 12:17 AM
      According to that pick you posted it shows a drawing of the lights dimensioned at 4-3/8" O.D.. If the holes are 4", isn't that going to be to big?

JohnWPB MSG #181, 12-10-2012 12:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Khw:

According to that pick you posted it shows a drawing of the lights dimensioned at 4-3/8" O.D.. If the holes are 4", isn't that going to be to big?


Funny thing is, when I purchased the bumper, everyone mentioned that they were designed for a 4" fog light. In fact, the hole is only 3" in size. They can not be made larger, as the lip around the edge would then be cut, leaving a perfectly flat area where the hole is.

Anyhow, You are indeed 100% correct! WTF?!?!??! I searched all over the place, and settled on the "BL5000k" that ARE 3" in diameter. I did a search for that model number, and found them, and purchased them. I did not take the time to read everything completely, so it is indeed my mistake. On the other hand, who makes different products with the same exact model number? Argh!

Here is the original one I found, 3" and same model number:


Well anyways......I sent a note to the seller to see if we can work something out before I pay for them. I told him if not, I will stand by the commitment and buy them. Hopefully he offers me an out......
If not, look for them in the mall soon! LOL

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-10-2012).]

JohnWPB MSG #182, 12-11-2012 10:21 PM
      Well that actually went smoothly! The seller totally understood that I made a mistake, and opened a ticket on eBay to cancel the purchase. I followed the link, and all is canceled. I dropped him $5 in PayPal just as a thank you.

 
quote

Item: NEW FOG & DRIVING LIGHTS HALO ANGEL EYES XENON H3-55W WHITE HALOGEN BL5000K SET ( 110853529642) View purchased item - opens in a new window or tab
Transaction end: Dec-09-2012
Seller: Seller name: supportmyeconomy

Case type: Cancel transaction
Case status: Closed. You agreed to seller's request to cancel the transaction.

Thank you for responding to supportmyeconomy. This case is now closed. You are no longer obligated to purchase this item.


with the literally hundreds of things I have bought and sold on eBay, This was my first cancellation. It was almost too easy LOL

Now to order the same model number, color and style, just in 3" size instead of 4 3/8"! ! !



mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #183, 12-28-2012 03:16 AM
      Can I install one of those handy RFID readers behind the molding next to my lock cylinder on my door to unlock the doors when it gets close enough? That would be Pretty cool!

2.5 MSG #184, 12-28-2012 11:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:

Can I install one of those handy RFID readers behind the molding next to my lock cylinder on my door to unlock the doors when it gets close enough? That would be Pretty cool!


There is a guy in the Minnesota club who has RFID door locks, wish I could rememeber who. It also enables push button start.


JohnWPB MSG #185, 02-06-2013 03:53 PM
      Not much to report lately...... I have yet to get the car back to the paint shop. I was supposed to take it back the week before Christmas, and was just too much going on. Then after Christmas, the New Year's day long weekend, followed by my birthday and every other delay and procrastination I can think of LOL

Anyhow, just ordered new brake lines for both sides on the rear. I can pick em up tomorrow morning. Once those are replaced, it will have had just about everything to the back axles that can be. New Hubs & bearings, new calipers & pads, and new brake lines.

Since replacing the engine, I have a few vacuum leaks that I need to fix. I have to pull out the book and see what all goes where. I can hear one leak, sounds like it is around the distributor somewhere. There are a couple more on the Cruise Control, and the metal lines that run behind it along the trunk wall.

Even though the back right brake is disconnected and plugged up, I took it for a drive through my neighborhood just around the block today just to stretch it's legs so to speak. Man it drives nice! I am so hoping to have it in shape enough to drive up to Daytona.


nathrak (jon.berger@bellsouth.net) MSG #186, 02-15-2013 03:21 PM
      I sure hope you can drive it to Daytona, I'd really like to see that color in person, it really looks amazing.

JohnWPB MSG #187, 02-21-2013 12:01 AM
      It's not looking like I will be making it to Daytona There is just too much to do in a very little time. I am 99% that next year WILL be the year I get the car to Daytona.

I just replaced both rear hubs bearings and calipers with all new parts. (Well... my friend / mechanic did at least )

It seems like I have been putting LED's in everything lately, dome lights, floor lights, side markers, trunk (front and rear), 3rd brake light ect... Well one spot I overlooked until now, the license plate lights. What a difference the pure white light makes in brightness and how clean it looks without the dingy yellow look



I got the new fog lights in the mail yesterday. I will tackle installing them on the front bumper this weekend. Then I just need to fins a Mini Cooper in the junk yard that I can scavenge the mesh from for my 355i bumper.

The car finally goes back to the paint shop tomorrow to fix a couple things they screwed up. I will be SOOOOooo happy when the paint is done, and cured so I can start putting it back together! All new belt molding and markers, sail windows, emblems ect. Then I can also tackle the painting of the wheel wells, brake parts and such. No sense in doing it now with it going back to the paint booth and getting more over spray everywhere!



rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #188, 02-21-2013 05:45 AM
      Work faster, you can still make it to Daytona. You have over a full month. We need you there damnit!!!

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #189, 02-21-2013 08:36 AM
      Just trailer it. This car deserves that anyway

JohnWPB MSG #190, 02-21-2013 02:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Just trailer it. This car deserves that anyway


Nah, this is not going to be a trailer queen. This will be my daily driver for the most part.


2.5 MSG #191, 02-21-2013 04:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Nah, this is not going to be a trailer queen. This will be my daily driver for the most part.




Putting some good security on that baby, tracking device, etc?


Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #192, 02-22-2013 11:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Nah, this is not going to be a trailer queen. This will be my daily driver for the most part.


I like your thinking.


JohnWPB MSG #193, 02-27-2013 02:00 AM
      Not a lot going on... Been tinkering with the instrument cluster and gauges. As shown back a couple pages ago, I re-did the gauge needles in blue. Well the stock lights in back of the gauges are not near bright as I want them to be to light up the needles. I am going to have to add in some LED's. Little stuff....

On an unrelated side note, I see all the time people apologizing in many different threads... something like "Sorry for the crappy cell phone pictures". Well here is a neat bit of info I just realized.

Anyone who knows me from Frazee, Georgia, North Texas Fiero Club, or locally, know I am a bit of a shutter bug (Ok, so that's an understatement! ) I have a fairly decent Digital SLR camera and lenses ect. However, going over the past 2 pages of this thread, I realized something. I have not taken a single picture with my camera setup on the last 2 pages of this thread!

Every single picture, (Pictures I have taken, not product images and such) as well as the video of the gas door were all taken with my Galaxy S3! I have to say, I am highly impressed how far cell phone camera's have come in the past few years. Like I said, nothing special, just a neat bit of information.....


TRiAD MSG #194, 03-12-2013 04:25 PM
      Love these build thread when they're so detailed, informative and innovative!
+s for you and DIY Stu!!

~M



JohnWPB MSG #195, 03-13-2013 06:57 AM
      Still not to much going on with the car, as other things are taking priority lately. However, thanks to CaptnDean, I do have a nice set of reflectors for the rear bumper now. They are not NOS, but you can not tell by looking at them that they are not new! Little things.... tons and tons of little things it seems





2.5 MSG #196, 03-13-2013 08:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

It seems like I have been putting LED's in everything lately, dome lights, floor lights, side markers, trunk (front and rear), 3rd brake light ect... Well one spot I overlooked until now, the license plate lights. What a difference the pure white light makes in brightness and how clean it looks without the dingy yellow look



Did you put LEDs in your tail lights and Pontiac letter lights?


JohnWPB MSG #197, 03-13-2013 12:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Did you put LEDs in your tail lights and Pontiac letter lights?


No, that is just about the only thing I did not convert to LED. I did change the bulbs for the PONTIAC lights though. A client was replacing some under cabinet kitchen lighting. They looked like they would have had a florescent light in them till I opened them up. Instead they had 4 12v bulbs in them. The same socket as the ones for the PONTIAC lights. I plugged one in to test it, and it was at least twice as bright as the stock bulbs. I have no idea the bulb numbers or anything, just that they are made for low voltage under cabinet lighting.


JohnWPB MSG #198, 03-13-2013 01:53 PM
      I decided to get the fog lights installed in the bumper today.. Guess what... as usual, another problem LOL. When I got the bumper up on the table to work on it, I held one of the fog lights in place from behind, and the holes in the bumper are no where near being round. The light clears with about 1/2 inch left on the sides, but it does not fit from top to bottom.



I am at a bit of a loss, as there is no way I can cut the hole 1/2" larger. There is a lip that curves inward from the front. If I were to cut 1/2", I would loose the lip, and basically have a flat surface with a hole in it.
Another obstacle to overcome.... gonna have to think on this one for a bit!


2.5 MSG #199, 03-13-2013 02:47 PM
      So you need to somehow get the hole more perfectly round? Is it just flexed or not cut round? If it is a flex thing could you brace it from behind somehow, build a sort of frame on the backside that flexes it back to correct?

JohnWPB MSG #200, 03-13-2013 09:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

So you need to somehow get the hole more perfectly round? Is it just flexed or not cut round? If it is a flex thing could you brace it from behind somehow, build a sort of frame on the backside that flexes it back to correct?


It's definitely not flexed, as it is thick fiberglass. The problem is to make the hole round, I would have to cut material from the top or bottom of the hole, thus removing the lip that curves inward. Then if I can do that sucessfully, there will still be a gap on the left and right, because, as of now, it is already wider than the light before cutting anything.


VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #201, 03-13-2013 10:46 PM
      Sounds to me like you need some Egg shaped Fog lamps !!!

Car is looking good John.

Edit to add: I own John`s page 6

[This message has been edited by VikingRedBaron (edited 03-25-2014).]

2.5 MSG #202, 03-14-2013 08:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


It's definitely not flexed, as it is thick fiberglass. The problem is to make the hole round, I would have to cut material from the top or bottom of the hole, thus removing the lip that curves inward. Then if I can do that sucessfully, there will still be a gap on the left and right, because, as of now, it is already wider than the light before cutting anything.


Or can you can safely put a shim on either side of the bulb or mount, to keep the gap the same all the way around? I'm not sure.
I would contact Archie, with all that exoperience he'd have some thoughts.


fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #203, 03-20-2013 05:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Well, on to some stuff I can do indoors Being I have painted just about everything on the car, as well as under the decklid and hood, new stickers were in order. I have spent countless hours, I honestly do not want to know how many!) re-creating just about every sticker for the car. From jacking instructions, Coolant filling procedures, Emission stickers, fan warning and on and on.

Here are a couple printed out on a vinyl that is made for ink jet printers, that has a peel off backing. I then covered that in a transparent laminate. This gives the stickers a nice gloss over them, much like the factory stickers.

Here is one that goes under the decklid:



.
.
.
And here is one that goes under the front hood:


I am most certainly not keeping the car "true to stock", but I think replacing the stickers will give it a bit of an extra touch.

Oh, I almost forgot, CaptnDean called me, and we are going to head to the junk yard and browse around. We keep looking for Fiero's, but we never find one. Anyways, he has an idea for some fog lights, available in the junkyard. He says they are a better option for the ones that I mentioned in the previous post. Better quality & cheaper, that's fine by me!



Are you going to be recreating and selling these stickers in any way?....I would love to get some for my rebuild.


JohnWPB MSG #204, 03-21-2013 06:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:


Are you going to be recreating and selling these stickers in any way?....I would love to get some for my rebuild.

Absolutely! after all the work I have put into these... but at this time I just have the 86' emissions sticker done. Each year is very different, and gonna take quite a few hours to do each one of the others.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 09-08-2013).]

JohnWPB MSG #205, 07-18-2013 12:15 AM
      I am headed back to Frazee for the 4th Annual Tyler Shipman Memorial Car Show one week from today! WooHoo! Will be great to see everyone again.

also, a bump to keep my lazy procrastinating as..... er.... thread from the archives......



Inferno (infernoz24@hotmail.com) MSG #206, 07-18-2013 04:28 AM
      I am now following this build.
Thanks


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #207, 07-18-2013 09:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Well, on to some stuff I can do indoors Being I have painted just about everything on the car, as well as under the decklid and hood, new stickers were in order. I have spent countless hours, I honestly do not want to know how many!) re-creating just about every sticker for the car. From jacking instructions, Coolant filling procedures, Emission stickers, fan warning and on and on.

Here are a couple printed out on a vinyl that is made for ink jet printers, that has a peel off backing. I then covered that in a transparent laminate. This gives the stickers a nice gloss over them, much like the factory stickers.

Here is one that goes under the decklid:



.
.
.
And here is one that goes under the front hood:


I am most certainly not keeping the car "true to stock", but I think replacing the stickers will give it a bit of an extra touch.

Oh, I almost forgot, CaptnDean called me, and we are going to head to the junk yard and browse around. We keep looking for Fiero's, but we never find one. Anyways, he has an idea for some fog lights, available in the junkyard. He says they are a better option for the ones that I mentioned in the previous post. Better quality & cheaper, that's fine by me!



Omg... very nice! If you do decide to repro skme other years... sign me up for a purchase cause those are amazing!

I wish you were not so darn far.... I would love to see this little fellow in person. However if you and I just stood around and put our heads together... oh lord the projects that would arrise! If you had seen my firebird while you were up in GA you would understand...

Your attention to detail is so impressive!


infinitewill MSG #208, 07-18-2013 10:19 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-01-2016).]

Danyel MSG #209, 07-18-2013 05:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I am headed back to Frazee for the 4th Annual Tyler Shipman Memorial Car Show one week from today! WooHoo! Will be great to see everyone again.

also, a bump to keep my lazy procrastinating as..... er.... thread from the archives......

I hope you can drive it to Frazee for the fifth... cool build my friend.... dont forget to take pics of the 4th and also send the pics from the third annual please... ahhh ... How about sending a CD of the 3rd and 4th pics

THX my friend
Danyel




JohnWPB MSG #210, 09-08-2013 11:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:


Omg... very nice! If you do decide to repro skme other years... sign me up for a purchase cause those are amazing!

I wish you were not so darn far.... I would love to see this little fellow in person. However if you and I just stood around and put our heads together... oh lord the projects that would arrise! If you had seen my firebird while you were up in GA you would understand...

Your attention to detail is so impressive!


Yes, I wish we did live closer! As for the stickers, I will be doing all of them! So far I have the emission stickers for all 6Cyl's for 85,86, 87 & 88. I still need scans / high resolution pictures of the 4 cyl's stickers for all 5 years. Just the emissions sticker is the one that changes based on year and engine. (Coolant fill & fan warnings have 2 versions in the stickers I did to cover all years)

You can find the ones I have done for purchase on my website at FieroStuff.com

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 09-16-2013).]

fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #211, 09-09-2013 12:07 AM
      Now I remember you making these reproduction stickers months ago.So is there any updates on the Fiero.

JohnWPB MSG #212, 09-09-2013 01:11 AM
      Unfortunately no.... I can come up with Lots of reasons. excuses Spending money on other stuff, and it has been far too hot to work on it much. It won't be long now and it will finally start cooling off a bit. THEN I will start to make some progress again I hope!


1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #213, 09-09-2013 01:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Unfortunately no.... I can come up with Lots of reasons. excuses Spending money on other stuff, and it has been far too hot to work on it much. It won't be long now and it will finally start cooling off a bit. THEN I will start to make some progress again I hope!


Funny..... this sounds very familiar



JohnWPB MSG #214, 01-08-2014 04:51 PM
      So, I got a new Electronic Dye Cutter to cut out the reproduction stickers that I am doing for the Fiero more precisely. It surprises me with the detail that it can cut things out with! I have been using it on all of the stickers I am making.

I figured I would try to see if I could do something a bit larger and more "substantial" On the way home from work today I stopped at Target & bought a roll of white contact paper (AKA thin vinyl sheeting with an adhesive back). From the time I got home, to having this on the hood was about an hour. I messed a couple times and had to make changes to the blade depth, & cutting speed, as I had never worked with vinyl before. I had to do this in 3 sections. Even thought the cutter can handle material up to 10 feet in length, it can only do 12" in width.

Here it is on my hood as a test fit. I am not sure if I like it or not yet..... I will keep it on there for now, and see if it grows on me






fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #215, 01-08-2014 09:37 PM
      So I take it that your car is going to make it to the Daytona 2014 show.

JohnWPB MSG #216, 01-08-2014 10:03 PM
      That is tbe plan..... I still have a LOT to do, but I hope I can pull if off!

2.5 MSG #217, 01-10-2014 12:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Here it is on my hood as a test fit. I am not sure if I like it or not yet..... I will keep it on there for now, and see if it grows on me





I like these thiongs best as a ghost image, or outline, you could use it or its leftovers as a stencil...more subtle but we all have our own tastes.


rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #218, 01-10-2014 08:56 PM
      I must agree with 2 !/2 that it's too much. A subtle ghosted image looks much better, especially on a brilliant colored paint job like you have. If you don't bring your car up to Daytona, you will find a burning bag of dog poop on your front steps. Haha

JohnWPB MSG #219, 01-11-2014 12:20 AM
      Double post...

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-11-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #220, 01-11-2014 12:22 AM
      I was more testing out some different things I could do with the dye cutter. I am not that fond of the look myself. The best part is the fact that I can just peel it right off. Doing the "ghost effect" would be permanent, and not something I want to do on top of my new $3,000 paint job at the moment.

The car has a LONG way to go to be road worth unfortunately. Again, I wish there were a more active Fiero community here. I would love to throw a BBQ and have everyone over to help me put this thing back together. The interior is gutted, and the car has not driven more than 2 miles since I towed it home. It is nerve racking to think about taking it on a 4 hour road trip. I have a lot of vacuum leaks that I have not tracked down, and the fan is not kicking on. It's a lot of stuff, and I will do my best to get it up to Daytona. Regardless if the Fiero makes it or not, I will not miss the show!



JohnWPB MSG #221, 02-15-2014 12:23 AM
      Well I just put out a call for help, asking for assistance to try to get this car done before the Daytona show. It is all little stuff for the most part. If anyone is in the area, your assistance would be greatly appreciated!

turbo86se (jstup301@gmail.com) MSG #222, 02-15-2014 09:14 AM
      Excellent build thread! I got a lot of similar work on my "new" 87GT in the garage.

JohnWPB MSG #223, 02-25-2014 01:50 AM
      Well I finally got a new replacement center console! CaptnDean was nice enough to bring one over the other night. Sorry Dean, but I have to say this is one of the saddest center consoles I have seen! I know beggars can't be choosers, and I am grateful, it just means a lot of work!

I guess I should start with what the console looked like when he dropped it off the other day, and go from there.



I decided to start with the glove box door first. As you can see it is warped pretty bad around the edges.


It seems when the foam that is underneath the vinyl gets old, it expands. As you can see in this picture, this causes the edges of the rubber to pull away from the back of the door, and become completely detached. This combined with the swelling of the foam underneath the rubber, makes the edges really uneven.


A started by peeling the rubber back, and cleaning out some of the foam.


Removing the bulk of the foam, allows me to stretch the rubber back around the back of the door and glue it in place. Here it is all cleaned out, and ready to be glued.


I used Gorilla Glue, which is perfect for this. You put the glue where you need it, and clamp everything up to hold the edges nice and straight and in place. As the Gorilla Glue dries, it swells and fills in all the nooks and crannies, holding the rubber in the correct shape, and bonding to everything to hold it together at the same time.

I was in a hurry, and unfortunately didn't take any pictures of how I clamped everything together. I will try to get some when I tackle the rest of the center console.

Here is the back of the center console door, after gluing. You can see some of the Gorilla Glue where it seeped out while drying, it looks much like the foam that was in there already.


Lastly, I cleaned it the rest of the way up with a lot of different stuff! Bleach, to remove the mold, then rinsed and Dawn detergent with a scotch bright to clean further, and lastly a Magic Eraser to git rid of a couple of blemishes. Here is the final result, a clean door, with nice flat edges as they were intended to be 30 years ago!


I will put some more images as I do the rest of the center console. My final intend is to change the color of the center console to black, and I will detail that step by step as I do it.


JohnWPB MSG #224, 03-02-2014 09:58 PM
      I used the glove box door as a test for the rest of the parts of the center console. I cleaned it first with bleach to disolve the mold. Then with dawn to get any grease and gunk. I then let it dry and and wiped it down with alcohol. I then used a tach cloth to get any dust particles. Next, I sprayed it with Dupli-Colors adhesion promoter. After drying, I used a semi-gloss paint for plastic, as I did not want a really shiny look to the parts:


Here is the final result:



Now it was time to start working on the center console itself. The foam from age, heat and God know what, had swelled to twice its original thickness. There was no way I could get the edges back around the frame like it used to me. I took all the foam out of the lower part of the console.

I then used some cotton batting made for upholstery to give it some cushion, just thinner that the swollen original foam.


After this, I was able to wrap the vinyl back around the skeleton, and glue it in place.



Next, finish up the rest of the console, and get it ready for paint.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-02-2014).]

LornesGT MSG #225, 03-02-2014 10:22 PM
      Nice right up, thanks! Cliff should edit and put in the how to.

JohnWPB MSG #226, 03-05-2014 01:00 AM
      Finally all the glue is dry, and I can get it finished. I posted the paint I am using in the last post. It is supposed to be a "Satin finish". Well it turns out it is a very high gloss finish for some reason. It made the center console look like it was dipped in varnish! Trust me, even the glossy picture does not show just how glossy it turned out!

This photo actually shows a little better just how glossy it came out.



Mild panic set in, as I had spent so much time on this console, and there is no way I wanted something that was that glossy and tacky looking in my car. I was not sure what to do. A trip to the Home Depot solved it. I found a clear matte finish in a rattle can. I gave it a quick misting of that, and the gloss started to subside, THANKFULLY!



I attached the glove-box door, put on the "air vents" for the computer that I painted in a blue to match a lot of the trim in my car, and it is starting to look like something finally!


I am eventually going to go with a custom interior, but in the mean time, I want to get it back together and finally on the road! I want my own Fiero! Just about the only ones I have ever actually driven are Tyler's Toy (NOT complaining ) and his sister Cassies car. I am looking forward to the helping hands coming on the 15th to help me get her together for Daytona!


fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #227, 03-05-2014 03:34 PM
      Great job on the center console John. I really like the vents painted in blue..

JohnWPB MSG #228, 03-06-2014 12:29 AM
      I was hoping painting the vents would not look overkill. I think it is just the right amount, without being over the top. I did it in an attempt to tie in with the rest of the interior; the door panels, and the stitching on the arm rests, shifter and sun visors.





JohnWPB MSG #229, 03-09-2014 12:49 AM
      Carrying on a little further with the black and blue theme on the interior, I added a little bit of blue to the center dome light console. Now I just need to get the plate for the Performance Sound, as the one on mine was missing.



I am trying to figure out if I want to do the ash tray doors in blue, or if that would just be too much.......


fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #230, 03-09-2014 02:07 AM
      I say leave the ashtrays normal and paint the lower power window/mirror switch plate blue.And maybe the cigarette lighter plate blue too.
Just my opinion.
I am making a new lower plate now.


[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 03-09-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #231, 03-11-2014 02:45 AM
      Still working on all the little stuff! I painted the shifter surround, as I just didn't like that silver plastic look. I did all of the other face plates as well, around the A/C, gauge cluster, Aux gauges ect. They came out fairly decent:



Next was the ash trays. They were rusted and pitted beyond belief. I sanded and use a Dremel wire wheel as best I could. Then I hit it with rusty metal primer, a thin coat. I did this about 6 times to build up a nice thickness that seemed to hide all the pitting and such. Sprayed it with some adhesive promoter, and topped it off with some silver metallic paint. I have never been a fan of the stuff, as it never seems to turn out the way you would want. This was the one exception I think, as they really turned out nice! Not worried about paint melting or burning, as I quit smoking 3 years ago They are just for show really.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-11-2014).]

2.5 MSG #232, 03-11-2014 08:44 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:






You know what might look good is a thin pin stripe of the blue around the outside edge of the shifter surround, kind of like the blue stitching is a thin line. leaving the rest of that area black. Just that little recessed outline edge maybe? Would kind of match the piping on your seats too.

Are you lighting up your shiftter indicators and dash blue?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-11-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #233, 03-11-2014 09:31 AM
      I had actually thought about doing that, or maybe the ash tray handles in blue as some sort of tie in. As for the dash and shift indicator lights... but of course!



2.5 MSG #234, 03-11-2014 10:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I had actually thought about doing that, or maybe the ash tray handles in blue as some sort of tie in. As for the dash and shift indicator lights... but of course!





fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #235, 03-11-2014 02:46 PM
      Great job on the shifter plate.I think the blue outer pinstripe would look awesome IMO.

JohnWPB MSG #236, 03-11-2014 11:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
You know what might look good is a thin pin stripe of the blue around the outside edge of the shifter surround, kind of like the blue stitching is a thin line. leaving the rest of that area black. Just that little recessed outline edge maybe? Would kind of match the piping on your seats too.


I totally agree with that, and in concept it sounds great. Well..... in reality, I tried to it, with no success. It is such a THIN area around the edge, around an 1/8th of an inch or so. I tried masking the area off many many times, and just could not lay the tape down and keep it perfectly 1/8th of an inch end to end. The lip is not deep enough that I could put the tape vertically either... I tried.

So, I went with my original thought, and just made the handle / ridge of the ask tray doors blue instead. I am happy with the way the look came out. Again, just a subtle bit of blue to tie in with all the rest of the interior.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-25-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #237, 03-23-2014 06:05 PM
      Progress... I found out today that my Fiero was retarded.... yes, literally. Joey came over and helped me today, and determined that it was 17 degrees retarded to be exact. So he watched the laptop, and I turned the distributor till we got it at 10 degrees retarded. That way when the ALDL cable is disconnected, and it reverts to 10 degrees, it theoretically should be in perfect time.

After Joey left, I bolted the drivers seat in, and installed the instrument cluster to keep an eye on things. It ran great, and I got to take it out for it's first real drive today! There are still a LOT of little issues, but it is coming together!

It's looking more and more like this thing may make it to Daytona this upcoming weekend!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-25-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #238, 03-24-2014 08:40 PM
      When everyone was over here to help me get my car ready for Daytona this year, we found that the quarter windows I have appear to be too short. Chuck went over and compared them to his quarter windows and said that they were way smaller than the ones on his car. I contact Chris Cook about the windows, saying the appeared to be too small. He asked for pictures of the windows. I put a video up in YouTube instead for him to get a good look at trying to position them:



He contacted me back and said the video does not show much, and that the gap appears to be less than 1/2 inch, and that is normal. What does anyone else thing when looking at the video?


Danyel MSG #239, 03-24-2014 09:28 PM
      Judging from my OEM glass the ones you received yours are definitely way too short....... there is NOT half an inch of space.....





regards
Danyel



fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #240, 03-25-2014 12:36 AM
      Did you paint your shift selector blue to match the gauge needles?

JohnWPB MSG #241, 03-25-2014 12:45 AM
      You see this post..... right at the top of this page.... well guess what? It's MiNE!

Yes, as a matter of fact I did do the shift indicator in blue to match the rest of the gauge needles Thank you again for the reproduction needle cap, it fit and looks PERFECT!

I got a few more things done today. I was able to wire up the 4 x 90mm headlights mounted in Timo's headlight buckets. They are wired either low beam OR high beam at the moment. After Daytona, I plan to get a couple of relays, and rewire it so when the High Beams are on, the lows are as well.

I am having a difficult time trying to find a plug that will fit in the parking lights in the 355i front bumper. They are from a 2001 Chrysler Sebring convertible. NONE of the parts store carry, or can even order the plug. That includes Napa, Pep Boys, Congress Auto, Advanced Discount Auto and Autozone. I will have to hit the local salvage yard to try to find a pair. In the mean time, no front turn signal lights, and I have to manually click the turn signal lever so the back ones work at least

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-25-2014).]

fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #242, 03-25-2014 06:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
Yes, as a matter of fact I did do the shift indicator in blue to match the rest of the gauge needles Thank you again for the reproduction needle cap, it fit and looks PERFECT!
That's glad to hear that it fit good...I won't be making it to Daytona this year,it's hard to get any kind of help with my Fiero in this area.Maybe next year.

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 03-25-2014).]

2.5 MSG #243, 03-26-2014 09:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE




looks nice!

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-26-2014).]

hnthomps (hnt100@aol.com) MSG #244, 03-26-2014 02:16 PM
      Guys,

Things are not working out for me this year to make Daytona. I have the electrical problem figured out and it appears to be the battery even if it tested good. After checking just about every fuse, connection, and cable I swapped out my battery with one from a project car. The car starts and runs fairly well now but does have some slight hesitation when first starting. It is not bad and only occurs for a fraction of a second. I will put some more starts on it before I head off on a long trip.

I just cancelled my Daytona hotel reservation but it was not because of the car but I now need to attend a funeral in South Florida on Friday afternoon. It would be painful to get back in time for the Saturday show (with an extra 600 miles of driving) so I will miss Daytona this year. If anyone can use my show registration number it is 62X and made under the name of Nelson Thompson. I can scan and e-mail a copy of the post card if anyone wants to try and use it.

Nelson


JohnWPB MSG #245, 04-14-2014 03:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:
Things are not working out for me this year to make Daytona.


Nelson, I replied to this post in the Daytona Thread.

Ok, This is more aggregating than anyone could know! I have been having fuel problems from the day that I was taking the Fiero to Daytona a few weeks ago. It has been, and is, almost impossible to diagnose!

I filled the tank and drove 97 miles, when it felt like it was running out of gas. It has been many years since I ran out of gas, but I totally remember what it feels like when an engine is starved of fuel. It sputtered, would buck, and eventually just quit as I coasted off the side of the road. It would not restart, and I could hear the fuel pump engaging when I turned on the key. I thought, Ok, I thought I had filled it, but there must have been an air pocket or something. The whole time the fuel gauge is reading above full, and am pretty sure the sender or the gauge is toast.

I called a friend to bring me some gas, I just tapped the key after putting gas in, and it started right up. I made it to a gas station, and when I filled it the auto cut off clicked on the pump handle when the fuel came up the fuel filler neck. It only took 4 gallons, which made no sense if I had just ran out of gas. It was then I heard gas pouring out all over the place. Looking underneath, it was not a small leak, but a waterfall under the car. It lasted a few seconds and stopped. So whatever it was was only pouring out gas when the tank was completely full.

Now what could it be?! The gas tank was full, but the car was "running out of gas" after driving a few miles. What would cause that, and gas pouring out when I tried to fill it?

Mean while, I had my mechanic, Frank, , the one that replaced the fuel pump for me a few months back come over. We drained the tank into two 5 gallon containers, and about a gallon into a drain pan. So the tank was indeed full after all. As soon as he dropped the tank, I could see EXACTLY where the fuel leak was when I filled it up:



As you can see, the ring had not been tightened correctly when the fuel pump was put in place. Frank apologized, and said he was very sorry, but was sure that he had tightened that ring. Which makes sense, as how could you not notice it like that when putting the tank back. Who knows, stuff happens.

So that's where the leak was, now how was it "running out of gas" with a full tank?! After looking at the rubber hoses in the tank, one of them was pretty soft and deteriorated. He said it was probably sucking air around the outer core of the hose. A quick trip to the parts store, and all hoses inside and out side the tank were replaced.

So, it was 2 separate problems causing these weird symptoms! I knew it has to be something strange, as it just made no sense at all! We put the tank back in, filled it back, and replaced the fuel filter again (Was replaced a couple months ago), since we were already under there and all.


Frank assured me that all was well, and I would have no more problems like that.


Fast Forward 3 days, and I have put around 100 miles on the car. Today, driving back from the junk yard, it started to sputter, again, as if it were out of gas. I was like #$!!#$ $#**#@@@@ ! ! ! ! ! Again, called a friend, put 3 gallons of gas in it, and it started right up. I went around 2 miles, and it "ran out of gas" yet again! ! ! ! ! <Insert lots and LOTS of really bad words here! ! !>. So guess what, yep, you got it, friend with the gas can again LOL! (He says this is the last time! LOL ) As I was putting the gas in, low and behold, it starts pouring out like a waterfall again! Have a look for yourself (This was after setting the gas can down, and starting to record on the phone, so I just caught the tail end of the leaking on video):



So, here I am again, literally right where I started from 2 weeks ago. Put gas in, and it spills out as it's over full and leaking again somewhere, and it runs out of gas with a full tank. Unreal! ! ! ! !



Dragon (dragon@spacecoastfieros.com) MSG #246, 04-14-2014 09:20 PM
      I used to have a problem like that with a rusty gas tank



mrfred8 MSG #247, 04-14-2014 09:36 PM
      John,

Check out your fuel vapor canister / filter aka evap canister. If that is not operating correctly it might not allow proper air flow when you are fueling.



JohnWPB MSG #248, 04-14-2014 11:39 PM
      I just ordered a brand new everything for the inside of the tank from the Fiero Store. $230 spent with shipping. This will update the resistor type crappy design to a modern design with a new fuel sending unit, so the gas gauge will actually work now, and accurately at that. The sending unit also comes with a new gasket, float, sock, and new metal lines in the tank. Mine were pretty rusty. Being the gas tank is actually holding fuel when filled up, this should take care of it running out of gas with a full tank. That combined with all new fuel rated lines in the tank, as well as the new fuel pump, 100% of everything in the tank will be new.

As for leaking when it is filled to the top, I have this feeling that the ring again did not seat when we closed it up. We DID ensure that it was put on correctly, and tapped/spun around with a hammer and screwdriver till it stopped. The ring may be bent, or the gasket is not flexible enough to hold it tight. Honestly just guessing till the tank is dropped again next Monday. With the new ring and gasket, hopefully that will take care of the leak as well. We are going to pressurize the tank this time, and see if there is anything out of the ordinary before putting it back together this time!


JohnWPB MSG #249, 04-16-2014 12:28 AM
      I started to work on the wheel wells today. I figured I would wire brush everything and hit it with Rustoleum, do the wheel well liners with spray on bed liner material, and paint the brake calipers. I started with the front left, and with the wheel off, you can clearly see that the Tie Rod / Control Arm is severely bent. I know NOTHING about suspension, so it was actually pointed out to me when I posted a suspension question in the tech forum. There is more discussion over there has to how to fix, and how it could have gotten bent so badly. Here is what it looks like:

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I continued on, and Purple Powered, wire brushed and pressure washed everything in the area:

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I then let it dry and then painted the area with the high temperature caliper paint, and then the bed liner on the wheel wells. I didn't really have to mask anything off for the black. When it came to the blue, I started to mask things off that I had just painted black. I wasn't about to go to the trouble of removing the brake calipers just to paint them blue


.
.

I did not worry about what the shocks look like, as I will be replacing them with new ones very soon. Starting to look pretty good. Not the perfect shade of blue I wanted, but there are not too many choices when it comes to high temperature caliper paint:


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After it dried a bit, I put the wheel back on. One down, 3 to go!


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Now to get a new control arm, ends and such and work all of that out..... it never ends!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-16-2014).]

fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #250, 04-16-2014 01:03 AM
      That looks really nice John ....It makes me want to go work on my P.O.S.
What was that color for the caliper called?

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 04-16-2014).]

VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #251, 04-16-2014 07:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:



Looks to me like you need a set of jack stands, and learn how to use them as well


JohnWPB MSG #252, 04-16-2014 05:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by VikingRedBaron:
Looks to me like you need a set of jack stands, and learn how to use them as well


No, I need to get a set of jack stands. However, what you do not see is the tire laying under the drivers floor board "in case of emergency". Anyhow, I am not getting under the car in ANY way with just painting the caliper.


fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #253, 04-17-2014 02:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I then let it dry and then painted the area with the high temperature caliper paint, and then the bed liner on the wheel wells. I didn't really have to mask anything off for the black. When it came to the blue, I started to mask things off that I had just painted black. I wasn't about to go to the trouble of removing the brake calipers just to paint them blue


.
.

I did not worry about what the shocks look like, as I will be replacing them with new ones very soon. Starting to look pretty good. Not the perfect shade of blue I wanted, but there are not too many choices when it comes to high temperature caliper paint:


.
.


After it dried a bit, I put the wheel back on. One down, 3 to go!


.
.


Now to get a new control arm, ends and such and work all of that out..... it never ends!


What was the color of the blue called that you used ?



Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #254, 04-17-2014 08:37 AM
      If you replace the ball joints yourself please let us know how it goes. I have been wondering if its a job I could do myself on my 85's considering I have never done suspension work before. Thanks

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #255, 04-18-2014 09:09 PM
     
John,

Check your email and or PM.

Thanks
Tony


1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #256, 04-20-2014 10:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

If you replace the ball joints yourself please let us know how it goes. I have been wondering if its a job I could do myself on my 85's considering I have never done suspension work before. Thanks

Replacing the ball joints isn't too bad of a job, that is if it's not too rusty. I just ground off the weld, just a BIG hammer, and smacked the old one out. Then I just used a ball joint press tool to set the new one in place making sure it was going it straight.



JohnWPB MSG #257, 05-20-2014 11:41 PM
      Well I started to tackle the suspension over the weekend, just spent a few hours o n it really. I do plan to do more this upcoming weekend. I have just about everything new for the suspension minus the rear struts.

I changed out the front shocks, and have not even swapped cars around to take it out for a test drive yet! I really want to replace the Tie Rod, the steering stabilizer shock and a couple more things first, so the difference should be quite noticeable. That's the hope anyways!

I have been in older cars before, but man this one just feels terrible. It rattles, the steering is terrible, feeling loose and worn out. Overall, it just feels really old. Looking at the rubber between all the suspension parts shows why. They have all deteriorated, dry rotted and worn out.

I went with Gabriel shocks on the front, and will go with their struts on the rear when I get around to the back of the car.




fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #258, 05-21-2014 12:24 AM
      It's good to see that you are back at it.

JohnWPB MSG #259, 06-18-2014 02:57 PM
      I had purchased all new side markers and full smooth molding for my Fiero from the Fiero Store. I had left them there to be painted satin black when I had the car painted. I dropped of with the car and have been going back and forth with Maaco for months, about them. Calling and them saying they had not painted them yet, turning into they are scheduled for next week, then into "what moldings?".

I contacted the corporate office, and they said they had contacted the store, and to go there when I had a chance. I stopped by this afternoon, and it was if they were expecting me. The entire staff was fired, including the manager since the last time I was there from what they told me. There was a man from the corporate offices, and he was very nice, and said he will replace all of the moldings for me. He asked how the paint job was, and we walked out and I showed him the problems with it. A couple blemishes in the spoiler, and one on the front right fender, and the chip in the hood. I also showed him where the door jams were painted before the rest of the car, and then when it was primed and painted, it went into all of the areas in the trunk, hood and door jams. This left all of these areas the texture of 120 grit sandpaper.

When we went back inside and pulled the paperwork, the color code that they had painted the car was not on the paperwork, nor was there mention of all of the extra's I paid for, the door jams, trunk and under hood to be painted, as well as repair of the lip above the tail lights. Also when they were looking to lift the roof a bit to paint the seam between the roof and the rear clip, they lifted a bit too far and cracked the area just at the top of the "A" pillar. The had repaired it, but badly, and it could still be seen.

He did not want to have to repaint the door jams, under the hood and such, as it was all not on the paperwork, and he insisted that I had those areas painted some where else! I had to pull up photo's on my tablet to show him pictures, in this very shop, where they were working on the door jams. He agreed, but was giving me trouble about the trunk and hood, so the tablet to the rescue again to prove that they were painted here.

They looked through a bunch of paint chips, and they are 80% sure we found the color that the car was painted. This was not the color I wanted, but one that they gave me. Thats another long story.... Just to play it safe though, and not have mismatched paint, he told me they were going to sand and respray the whole car! I was pleasantly surprised that he even said that! He said he will do whatever it takes to make sure I am satisfied. I wonder..... just how hard did corporate come down on this store! LOL! Well whatever they said, I am just happy to get what I paid for in the first place

So I am to drop it off next Monday morning and see how it goes!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-07-2014).]

TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #260, 06-18-2014 03:41 PM
      VICTORY FOR THE CONSUMER!

God I love hearing stories like this...don't understand why some shops act and run that way!


fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #261, 06-18-2014 06:16 PM
      It's good to hear that they will be taking care of your Fiero's paint issue for you.Hopefully it all comes back in great condition.

P.S. What was the color of blue used on your calipers ? ... Please....


JohnWPB MSG #262, 06-18-2014 10:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:

It's good to hear that they will be taking care of your Fiero's paint issue for you.Hopefully it all comes back in great condition.

P.S. What was the color of blue used on your calipers ? ... Please....


Oh man! I am so sorry! I totally forgot to post about that when you asked a LONG time ago! I got side tracked after I read your question, then just totally forgot.

Anyhow, it is made by VHT, and is a high temperature brake caliper paint. Here is the link to the one I used.



fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #263, 06-19-2014 12:44 AM
      Thank You again John.

JohnWPB MSG #264, 07-07-2014 06:01 PM
      When I took the car to drop it off at MAACO 2 weeks ago, the gentleman from corporate was not there. One of their main guys pulled my paperwork, and wanted to go over everything with me. They now did not want to do the door jams, under the hood, trunk, or the repair above the tail lights, as it was not on the paperwork. Wow, DeJaVu! I had to go over everything that the man from corporate had told me, and show proof with pictures on my tablet, that they had indeed painted those areas of the car. He was pretty adamant that the door jams and under the hood and trunk were painted after the car was taken from their shop. This is all the same exact stuff I had to show to the guy from corporate to get him to say they would repaint the car.

Just to get this information in here, as I had not mentioned it before:

Here is a photo of the car the moment it was backed into MAACO:

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Before I left, I removed the drives and passenger mirrors, and gave them new Fiero store gaskets to put on after the car was painted. I had removed just about everything that I could to not leave any seams and to ensure the car was painted correctly. I removed the gas cap and surround, the hood, headlight doors, all trim and molding, side markers, front bumper, outer dew wipes, the sunroof tracks, antennae, the reflectors in the rear bumper, removed the tail lights and both rear and front trunk area gaskets, and I removed the quarter windows. I also called a local glass shop to come remove the front window from the car so there would be no paint seam around the window molding.

When I originally dropped the car off, We had went in circles about the color that I chose for my Fiero. I had originally provided the color name, the year and make that the color was used on. A 2007 Mustang GT. (Sapphire Blue). We went around and around, and they tried to get me to pick another color from one of their books. It was not 10 minutes later when one of the paint guys came out with a can showing me the color he just mixed to paint my car. In the can it looked exactly like the Ford Sapphire Blue. When I received the car, it looked great, but was not near the color that I wanted. They refused to budge and I learned to just live with it.

With all of this prep work done myself, they still charged me $2800 for the paint job. A basic 2 stage, paint and clear coat. I think that is FAR more than fair to get a decent paint job and done right. Especially as there was NOTHING to remove and just having to throw covers over the tires, and minimal taping and papering around the windows & sunroof opening.


I had left them alone, as I said to take their time and do it right. Well it has been 2 weeks since I dropped it off, so I called for an update. He told me that they have not yet started on my car. Sure, I told them to take their time, as I wanted it done right, but not to forget about it I told him I was coming down to get the tail lights out of the trunk. After losing all of the new side molding and markers I bought from the Fiero Store, I honestly did not trust my brand new tail lights being left there.


Now, on to my experience with them today:

When I got there, we had the exact same conversation and argument that I did when I dropped the car off 2 weeks ago, and the week before that. The gentleman from corporate was not there, neither was the owner, so I had to explain everything all over again, this time to the manager. He wanted to just touch up areas of the car. He was now reluctant to do the door jams and under the hood and trunk, fix the chip in the hood, fix the back where they batched a repair job, paint under the headlight doors, and so forth. His excuse is that none of these items were itemized on the original paperwork. I was thinking to myself are you serious, I went through all of this already, TWICE! The man from corporate said they would just respray the entire car. Here I go again having to explain everything all over for a third time.

First he starts by telling me that they can not do the door jams as he has had people get the car painted there, then take it somewhere else to have those areas painted! I tell him the jams do not need painted, just the rocker panel corrected, as the paint to the touch, from when they did it felt like 200 grit sandpaper. I explained that the door jams and inner door itself stay black and untouched.

(Do they have some secret code of conduct to follow to get out of repairing something? This is the 3rd time that I have been accused of having under the hood, trunk and door jams painted at another shop after picking the car up from them....LUCKILY I have over 100 10 megapixel photos of EVERYTHING to prove otherwise.)



I then just casually asked if painting the door jams was extra, and he said "of course". I show him this photo, of the car in their paint shop showing the door jams THEY painted the first time around:

He then tells me that in the photo the door jams are blue already, and it came into their shop that way, and he is not going to paint them!

After listening to him accuse me of painting the jams after I took the car back from MAACO, I pulled up another closer photo, showing that the jams are masked off, and the did that to get to the lip of the white rear quarter panel to match it. The blue he is seeing in the photo is painted masking tape that they used to cover the black paint of the inner door frame I then walked him over to the car to show the door jams are still painted the original factory black. I then re-explain that it is JUST the rocker panels that need painted.

.
.

So now, I play dumb a little bit, and say that you said painting the door jams and inside the decklid and hood is extra right? he agrees. I simply state that the pictures clearly show that they did paint these area's, and therefore I must have been charged, as you just told me you do charge for this. Thus the paperwork that he keeps referring to is mistakenly missing all of the "itemized lines" on the paperwork. Bottom line, an error on their part, an error on their part, not mine. Heck on the paperwork, they spelled my last name wrong, first letter of the last name so they had a hard time finding me in their computer. That and the fact that they did not even put the paint code on the paperwork. I tell him with all of these known errors, that it is far more than likely that the items he keeps telling me is not on the paperwork, are another mistake, and not my fault.

So, on to the hood and decklid, he still is insistent that they could have been painted somewhere else after I received the car! even after going through this with the door jams!

Exibit A: (Car in their shop, under the decklid not painted)

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Exibit B: Same Shop, their employees, Under decklid painted:

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All of this, and they are trying to get me to tell THEM what color the car is painted, so they can match it. I tell them it should be on the paperwork, of which it is not (Seems to be ANOTHER line item error or something! just proving that the paperwork was not filled out correctly in the first place....... More on this later in this post......

Now that that is settled, we move on to a chip in the fiberglass of the hood. He is insistent that the chip happened after the car left their shop. Again, my tablet to the rescue!

Here is the car after rolling out of the paint booth behind the shop:

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The photo clearly shows the gouge in the hood.


Next, on to the headlight covers, they failed to paint the under side of them, and just did the top. I had removed them and they were with the rest of the parts to be painted separately. He said they were attached to the car, and therefore could not paint the underside as they did with the hood (So now he says they DID paint under the hood! LOL) I reassure him that they were provided separately, and guess what... yep, the trusty tablet to the rescue yet again!

You can see the headlight covers in the back left of the photo laying flat, not hanging as they should be to paint both sides:

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I forgot to mention earlier, that the front bumper was a different shade / color than the rest of the car. they denied painting the front bumper at all..... Surprise surprise! ! ! I point to it in the photo, in their paint booth , and explain that it is a different color as it was painted with the nose up in the air, thus a different angle which will not work with metal flake paint. On top of that, the lip between the bumper and the hood, which is facing down when they painted it, is still white and was never painted.
Now on to the interesting part..... I noticed a bumper in the back right of that photo, that does NOT belong to my car. Could be a rear bumper from a Grand Am or something looking at the round light areas for brake lights. I point this out to him, and ask:

what are the odds that:

1) You try to get me to go to another color
2) The paint guy comes out with a gallon of paint a few minutes later saying here is your paint!
3) There is a bumper to another vehicle getting painted the same exact color as my car at the same time.

This stumps him, and he reluctantly agrees to paint my car the color that I wanted in the first place! They are now, again, agreeing to respray the whole car. Wow, what a battle just to get something fixed that was done incorrectly from the beginning.

I just have to hope and pray that they do not change their minds a 3rd time, and that it comes out the way I paid for in the first place. That is all I want, what I paid, and paid well for, in the first place. Nothing more.

It is now 3:45 in the afternoon, and I asked what time they closed, so I could bring the paint code back to them. He said he would be there till 5:00 PM when they close.


All of that aside, I tell him I still need to get the tail lights, and he points to go around the far side of the paint booth where my car is parked.

To my horror, I walk around the corner to see this:

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The interior is not completed yet, still missing a few trim pieces. However there is new carpet, new floor mats, new Mr. Mike Seat Covers, gauge clusters, switches, new door panels....... I was in no mood for further confrontation, so I grabbed my tail lights and just left.

I left and drove to the Ford dealership to get the color code. I purchased a bottle of the touch up paint so there could be no mistake. When I hauled butt to get back to MAACO, I got there at 4:32 and they were locked up and closed. So much for the manager saying he would be there till 5:00 for me to get him the color code!


I just sent a follow up letter to the corporate office with photos of the interior the way the car has been neglected. I am waiting to hear what they have to say.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-08-2014).]

Danyel MSG #265, 07-07-2014 07:50 PM
      If a shop put my car in that shape I'd sue their a$$ off ..... two weeks and they still haven't finished man what a bunch of clowns !!!! I hate to be in your shoes my friend .... I'd probably be in jail for beating the pulp out of that yahoo !!!! Courage my friend !!!

Danyel



VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #266, 07-07-2014 08:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I was in no mood for further confrontation, so I grabbed the tail lights and just left. This is a new argument for another day.....



Did you leave the keys with them or take them home?



Danyel MSG #267, 07-07-2014 08:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by VikingRedBaron:


Did you leave the keys with them or take them home?



hahaahahahahahahahahahaha


Gto1966 (tripowergto1966@aol.com) MSG #268, 07-07-2014 11:19 PM
      You my friend are a lot more patient with them than I would of been!!! I would be seeking counsel if you haven't already, it doesn't look good at all. The pics are nice but I would be recording ALL conversations from this point forward if you haven't already. Seems like they have memory problems? This is after sitting in their "shop" (I am using that term loosely) for two weeks? The dusty pics are just sad, I sure hope you can get satisfaction.

fierogt28 MSG #269, 07-07-2014 11:33 PM
      Don't expect this to finish right.

This is totally un-professional. You are a customer, and this is definitely not the way business should be.

I'd be questioning...who the hell runs this shop??

Pull your car outta there, and pay them nothing. If you already did, expect **** to happen.


exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #270, 07-08-2014 12:25 AM
      john with the pictures you have, take your story to the trouble shooter at your local tv station. speaking as a former news reporter and anchor we looove that kind of stuff. one call from a reporter to corporate and heads would roll !!

JohnWPB MSG #271, 07-08-2014 12:46 AM
      I am still in the hopes that they come through. Corporate is aware of the situation, and appear to want to resolve this correctly. It is at the store level that I am having the resistance. That is why I contacted corporate again today, and included the pictures of the car the way it looked today when I was there.

I will let them try to resolve this, and wait till the car comes out of the booth the second time. If it is not right, then that is when I will stop being patient Mr. nice guy. I will go to the local TV station here, who has a segment in my area called "Contact 5". This is a pretty clear cut case, and just the type of thing they like to take on for their segments.

I will also display a nice sign next to my car at car shows with photo's and information on how not to take their cars to MAACO.

that I can can guarantee that I will have information available, and emailed to the 1200 people on my committee email list for the planning of next years Turkey Rod Run in March. That should get the word out to some of the 75,000 or so attendees of just that single that car show

That is all jumping the gun though, and I am just venting I guess for now. I do want to give them the benefit of the doubt, and hope they do correct it this time, as they have said that they will 3 times now.

And yes, as someone mentioned above, I have taken photos, notes, and video of both the manager and the gentleman from corporate saying that they are going to redo the car.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-08-2014).]

Christine (redchristine@msn.com) MSG #272, 07-08-2014 12:49 AM
      I too hope you did not pay them the full amount and did get your car out of that place. I know people want to save money on paint jobs but that is not the thing you want done at a discount rate. It costs $2,000 for a low quality paint job and up to 10,000 for a really nice one so if you want a good decent paint job you will need to spend at least $4,000-$5,000 for it. You are better off doing it yourself or having a friend do it if you want cheap and do not care if it is nice.

Here is a few things you do not want at a discount rate:
1. Paint job on your car
2. Eye surgery
3. Plastic surgery (kind of the same as paint job)
4. Home remodeling
5. Nursing home
6. Day care for your kids
7. Engine swap
8. Fire arms & ammo
9. Guard Dogs
10. No name hotels

The list could go on but you get the idea.

I am not sure what any of us can do to help you at this point, I wish you would have posted a thread saying I am thinking of taking my Fiero to Maaco to get a paint job what do you think, I feel you would have been told by countless people to NOT TAKE YOUR CAR TO THEM!

If you were here in Colorado I could tell you a place to take it and have the paint fixed, at a price but they could fix it up.

Let us know if there is something specific you want us to do to help, do you want us to bombard them with emails or phone calls? if so give us an email address or a phone number. Maybe you should contact the local news station and see if the want to do a story about them ruining peoples cars or ripping them off.

What to do? what action to take?

If they did that to me I would go there every day and harass them until the end of time and make them wish they had never done it to me and rue the day they pulled that crap on me, but that is me. Rue the day they would!

You should have seen me at Best Buy when they said they would not honor my extended warranty on my TV, It only took me 30 minutes for them to give me a new replacement just to get me to stop frightening the customers and making them leave the store.

If you have your car back you should park it near the front of their store off of their property and show it to every potential customer that tries to come in and see how they like that. If that fails let me know and I can give you more ideas they will not like that are legal and you will not need a lawyer.

Rue the day is my middle name.





JohnWPB MSG #273, 07-08-2014 12:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Christine:

I too hope you did not pay them the full amount and did get your car out of that place. I know people want to save money on paint jobs but that is not the thing you want done at a discount rate. It costs $2,000 for a low quality paint job and up to 10,000 for a really nice one so if you want a good decent paint job you will need to spend at least $4,000-$5,000 for it.


I did not try to cheap out on the paint job, and went with a $3,000 paint job, that I thought was fair. As we all know 90% of a paint job is in the prep work. I had removed everything and anything from the car, so there would be no tape lines, and minimal labor for them. I went with high end paint, and paid extra for 3 coats of clear.

The car is to be a daily driver, and will get bumped nicked and scratched being such. I was not looking for a $10,000 paint job, as in my case that is just stupid.

 
quote
Originally posted by Christine:
You should have seen me at Best Buy when they said they would not honor my extended warranty on my TV, It only took me 30 minutes for them to give me a new replacement just to get me to stop frightening the customers and making them leave the store.


LOL! I can actually picture you doing that! I bet your husband even went and hid behind something LOL! I would have paid full price for tickets to that event!

 
quote
Originally posted by Christine:

If you have your car back you should park it near the front of their store off of their property and show it to every potential customer that tries to come in and see how they like that. If that fails let me know and I can give you more ideas they will not like that are legal and you will not need a lawyer.


I have already thought about that. I talked to a business owner the other day that shares their parking lot when I dropped the car off and was removing the tail lights. He really dislikes anything and everything about MAACO! I know he would let me park the car in the parking lot by his place, and people would have to virtually pass me to get to MAACO. I could catch everyone on the way in and gladly share my experience with them.

Again, though this is good for me to vent and blow off steam, but I will still wait and see what happens. If all is good, case closed. If all is not satisfactory, then is when I will have to take matters to the next level.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-08-2014).]

2.5 MSG #274, 07-08-2014 08:57 AM
      If worst comes to worst, and you say you have lost all confidence in them, they should pay for you to get it painted at some other shop that you deem reliable, even if its a couple grand more.


JohnWPB MSG #275, 07-08-2014 09:16 AM
      Looking back, I see that I did not post pictures of the color that I want the car painted. It is an awesome blue, that was used on the 2007 Mustang GT called Vista Blue. After going to the Ford dealership yesterday, I now know that point code to be G9 PMP-19500-7147A

Here is the photo I gave them to match the paint color with:

.
.
This was the gallon of paint that they mixed up when I dropped the car off originally:

.
.


Here is the car the day the rolled it out the back of the paint booth, the color is not even close

.
.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-19-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #276, 07-08-2014 09:37 AM
      Ok, I just called to give MAACO the paint code, and was informed now that they are only going to touch up spots on the car. This getting VERY VERY frustrating, and I am about to lose it! 3 times now they start with just touching it up, and then all three times ending in offering to respray the whole car. Now we are back to square one with just touching it up.

while typing this, MAACO called me.

He said he spoke with corporate, and yes they are to respray the whole car, under the hood, door jams, under the decklid and the rest of the entire car. He said they need to sand the engire car and repaint it. If however I want to "change" the color, it would be $350 in materials. I then asked him if they are respraying the whole car, what all is invloved, he replies "As I said, prep and resand the whole car". I say ou said this includes the door jams as well? "As I said, Yes". I then say if you are sanding and prepping the entire car, and door jams, trunk and all surfaces, and repainting the entire car, to just use the correct paint code that I wanted when they respray it. He paused a moment and replied "It's doesn't work like that." I say why is that so, he replies that because there is paint and materials involved. I tell him that you are redoing the entire car, there is already paint and materials involved. He replies "Yes but it is different materials"......


So now I have to call Pete @ corporate 704-377-8855, and see if there is anything else that I can do.




2.5 MSG #277, 07-08-2014 09:42 AM
      Make sure they dont paint the black parts of your door jams, etc. After all this I can see something dumb like that happening.
I'd say you do want them to use your Ford blue for sure because if they dont they may even just touch it up and only say they resprayed the whole car.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-08-2014).]

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #278, 07-08-2014 09:51 AM
      Sad to see this happen John. MAACO needs to understand that this will have an effect on people choosing their business for work, either positive or negative. Word of mouth advertising goes a long way and this seems to be headed the wrong way for them. When I worked at and managed a retail store I always considered that word of mouth...it is by far the most effective or destructive advertising available. I allowed customers to return damaged merchandise that was in no way our fault. heck, I allowed a 1960s era T shirt to be returned as it had worn out! I always bent over backward to make folks happy. They tended to come back and buy more merchandise. I remember a specific example of a mom doing her back to school shopping for both a college son and college daughter. She had done quite a bit at another store for her son and was in mine for her daughter. She spent about 2 hours with me and had a stack of clothes for her daughter and excused herself for a minute. She left the store with her shopping bags from the previous store and came back empty handed. While we were looking for some more items, now for her son, she casually mentioned that she had returned all the other stores items and was shopping with me for the next few hours. Really made me feel great! I spent 4 or 5 hours with here and sent her home with 2 full new wardrobes...about $4,500 in new clothes for her kids. A few days later a corporate headquarters rep showed up in the store with a letter the lady had written to the HQ. I received an service award, a thank you, and a copy of her letter. Later that month her friends started showing up with her to the store.

Here is the point, before I drone on any longer: If you have a great experience you will tell a few select folks. However, if you have a bad experience you will tell everyone you know, everyone you are acquainted with, and even total strangers. Bad word of mouth advertising is one of the worst things a business can have. MAACO can turn this around by doing THE RIGHT THING. Instead of taking all the negative time and energy the company is spending take the car and make it right with the best possible paint job they can produce in the color you really wanted. Heck, we have seen folks come out very happy with their MAACO job but it is because the folks at that location took their job to heart. You may want to even look through threads and find that location and contact them. A possible route to take would be to ask for a refund from this location and take it to the other for the fix. or ask MAACO to send the car there for a proper job. We are about to have an Indy done up here in St Louis. needless to say, it won't be going to MAACO as I don't want to go through this experience.

Just some ideas...sorry to drone on.


Danyel MSG #279, 07-08-2014 10:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:



John I dont know if ya noticed but if you look top left of your pic you can see the same blue on the truck ...... man they are really a bunch of clowns ... did they have a special on YUKKY Blue paint !!! .......... bunch of morons

Danyel

[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 07-08-2014).]

CaptDean (iicaptaindean@aol.com) MSG #280, 07-08-2014 01:23 PM
      John,
Hope it all works out for you... Thats a bad situation.

[This message has been edited by CaptDean (edited 07-08-2014).]

smartaxel (jamesdnye@gmail.com) MSG #281, 07-08-2014 06:18 PM
      I had the "nice" 1600 dollar base clear at Maaco. I sanded some sections down myself and allowed them the rest. I pulled off the mirrrors etc and some trim pieces. it came out poor with some bubbles and a cracking wierd texture under the clear. The bumper was full of gouges and some other issues. they even sprayed every rubber molding body color.. Dew wipes, windshield, sunroof molding. I brought it back after allowing it 3 weeks to cure,and they resprayed. This time they ripped the new leather seat, and it came back with silicone bubble divots all over the roof and hood... I took it back.. This third time it came back with no turbo power (its a boosted car), the seat ripped,black paint on the interior seat and steering wheel, and the hood had silicone divots all over. I gave up. They said theyd "fix" it in another three weeks but I was afraid they'd do even more damage. I wish you the best of luck but i have my doubts.. Seems any paint job at Maaco, no matter how costly, is still just a 400 dollar quick respray.

[This message has been edited by smartaxel (edited 07-08-2014).]

Christine (redchristine@msn.com) MSG #282, 07-09-2014 12:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Again, though this is good for me to vent and blow off steam, but I will still wait and see what happens. If all is good, case closed. If all is not satisfactory, then is when I will have to take matters to the next level.



I am glad you took my post the way I intended it mostly just poking fun and you did not get bent out of shape but found humor in it as I intended. The Best Buy thing happened before I was Married to my husband so he did not have the pleasure to be there that day but if he had he would have joined me and not been put off at all, my reaction that and other things is part of the reason why we have been happily married for 11 years now, we see eye to eye on most things and are the best of friends and always have each others backs. Plus it is good for him that I like man stuff and never submit him to any dumb girly stuff, like jewelry for example it does nothing and has no purpose, not like a cool car that gets you from A to B and makes the trip fun, so you have form, function and a giant grin from ear to ear, much better than a rock that just sits there and screams this thing cost as much as a good paint job on a cool car but does nothing except make someone want to rob me.

I hope it goes well and you get satisfaction from this bad deal, if not I am sure you will be wiser and more learned from this experience. I showed my husband my post tonight and he did have sympathy for you as we have had similar experiences but not for quite as much so we can empathize with you on this. He also thought of one more thing I should have added to the things you do not want at a discount.

You do not want a discount prostitute. No explanation necessary for that.

I hope I made you laugh a little with each post. I am betting that if you do not get satisfaction you will be OK either way, you are a good person and Karma will come your way and theirs, even if you are not around to see it.



Pilot Abileen (pilotabileen@aol.com) MSG #283, 07-09-2014 01:19 AM
      I was really thinking about giving MAACO my business to paint my fiero and my sc400 but after reading this and the incompetence of the MAACO shop and their Corporate Offices. I'll pay the extra at a different shop to get the JOB DONE RIGHT!!!! This is the worst service I've read and all that shop dust inside your fiero covering your NICE seats and NEW carpet... damn shame. MAACO really needs to pull their HEAD from their ASS and bite the bullet and EAT the material costs and DO THE JOB THEY PROMISED! Sorry John, hope they realize their mistakes and make things right for ya.


Vernon8360 MSG #284, 07-09-2014 06:56 PM
      I have been following John's build very carefully, the paint part especially; preparation, color choice, and the reaction of MACCO with some initial issues. This has grown into a disappointing headache for John. Given I trust his judgement and sense of fairness, I strongly suspect I will not be going to MACCO anytime soon or at least until these issues are addressed and fixed in a fair and equitable way. Even then, I may hesitate given the swamp this customer has been made to slog through. Whatever happened to taking pride in your work and living up to your promises? Seriously, do you really need a corporate executive to tell you to do the right thing?



Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #285, 07-10-2014 08:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

...

To my horror, I walk around the corner to see this:

.
...


This is why I can't have a gun. If something like this happened to me I would go ballistic and quickly be in the national news. Can't believe how patient you have been. Love that Mustang blue but as you said it doesn't look like it. Still great looking. Hang it there man.


JohnWPB MSG #286, 07-11-2014 12:11 AM
      Got a call From MAACO today, they said they will do the repairs in the same color, but under no circumstances paint it the color I wanted unless I cough up another $350. They want an answer, as now they want the car out of their shop. Unreal.... Things have already been a little tight, and I am off to Frazee, MN in a couple weeks, so the $350 is just not in the cards right now for something like this.

It's all just a nightmare, and am just sick of being sick to my stomach over it.




GTGeff MSG #287, 07-11-2014 12:38 PM
     

Nice to know MAACO continues to live up to their crappy reputation and reinforces that I would never have them do any work on any of my vehicles.

Are they going to have the interior detailed before returning to you?

Jeff


2.5 MSG #288, 07-11-2014 01:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTGeff:

Are they going to have the interior detailed before returning to you?

Jeff


Wow they better.



JohnWPB MSG #289, 07-19-2014 04:00 AM
      I called MAACO, and I do have to pay an additional $300 to be repainted the color I originally wanted.... I was kind of backed into a corner so to speak.

a) I could have pulled my car out, and had to take it somewhere and spend thousands more to have it repainted.
b) Pay $300 and take a serious gamble that they get it right this time.

I do have a few things in my favor at least..... Corporate is watching this whole situation closely. I printed out a full sheet, single spaced of what is to be corrected, and done while it is there, and had it signed by the shop manager.

It's funny, as I mentioned the stuff earlier in our conversation, that was not on the original paperwork, such as door jams and under the trunk/hood ect. He stressed over and over how important that things be on the paperwork, or down the road there is no proof, and no need for them to honor anything. I said it was a verbal agreement, and he said a verbal agreement means nothing, and that is HAS to be in writing.

Later in the conversation when I was just about to leave, I pulled out the list of what we agreed upon is being done to my car when you repaint it, and said that I would like him to sign it. He said there is no need to do that, as we discussed everything, and he knows completely what needs done. I reminded him, that no more the 10 minutes ago he was stressing how important that everything be on paper, and a verbal agreement meant nothing..... Needless to say, I got attitude as read it over a few times and eventually signed it I took the signed copy, and gave him a duplicate for his records

One of the items on the list was to have the interior professionally detailed after their not disregard for my personal property. He was not aware that I had taken photo's of the car in that state till I showed them to him.


At least this way, if things are not done correctly, I have a legal leg to stand on. I also recorded the entire conversation of what they are doing and how. In Florida it IS legal to record a conversation as long as one of the parties in the conversation is aware of the recording.

There is also a bit of good news..... they did order and pay for the full side molding and side marker kit from the Fiero Store. I picked it up a few days ago while I was there with to get the list of items to be done signed. That saved me $300. Interesting that that is also the exact amount I am paying for to have the car repainted.....

So, if all goes well, my car will be Vista Blue when I get back from Frazee from the 5th Annual Tyler Shipman Memorial Car Show.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-25-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #290, 08-06-2014 11:21 PM
      Well, it has been almost 2 months since I dropped the car off! I called yesterday morning, and they said it was probably going in the booth in a few hours. I will stop by tomorrow after work, and hopefully get to see it in it's correct color! Fingers Crossed! ! ! ! ! !


1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #291, 08-07-2014 02:32 AM
      Wishing you luck!!

JohnWPB MSG #292, 08-07-2014 01:23 PM
      I talked to the manager the owner this morning, and he said all that was left was to have the glass company come out and put the front window in. I asked if that was all there was to do, and he said thats all that left.

Thinking I really want to get my car out of there as soon as possible, I called Bob's Auto Glass, and asked if I could bring the car to them on Monday and have the front window put back in. She said that the window was at their shop, and that would be no problem at all.

I went to see the car today on lunch, and planned to pick it up and take it home. As I walked towards the car, I was impressed with the color! It looked amazing! The paint was very smooth and looked deep with the 3 layers of clear. I immediately noticed that they taped off the wheel wells and exhaust to prevent over spray this time. I was thinking to myself wow, they made good on the promise to do everything right.

It was not until I opened the door, that I literally got sick to my stomach. The interior was absolutely soaking wet! The carpets, seats, floor matts were all saturated. The dust, grime, over spray and everything that covered the interior of the car the last time I was here, has now been rained on, and ran into every crack, crevice, and made this sort of "Bondo / dust mud" covering the carpets and the intire interior of the car. Opening the door, the car smelled like a swamp. I lost it..... I was recording the entire thing with my phone, for use in any future legal action that needs to be taken. I do not think I need to say more, as the video below pretty much sums it all up...........

NOTE: NSFW due to some choice language on my part.....

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-12-2014).]

seajai MSG #293, 08-07-2014 01:59 PM
      Wow........... unbelievable....... they must have left it outside with the sunroof out. Are they the biggest bunch of morons on the planet? I'd just take the car the way it sits before the destroy something else. And take em to court. If they strip that interior they'll break most of the parts and lose the rest.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 08-07-2014).]

mrfred8 MSG #294, 08-07-2014 02:04 PM
      So sorry John. Its amazing how people can have such disregard for other people's property.

Jason88Notchie (jasonshaffstall@gmail.com) MSG #295, 08-07-2014 02:08 PM
      OH MY GOD!!! John, I can't imagine how you feel right now. I felt sick seeing what they did to your car. Don't talk to corperate yet. Talk to a lawyer first!! I'm sorry John. Oh, and call all the local media outlets too!!

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #296, 08-07-2014 02:09 PM
      Wow. I'm speechless. And furious, on your behalf. Unbelievable amount of disrespect by the company.

Did you speak to anyone at a regional or corporate level yet?



exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #297, 08-07-2014 02:09 PM
      John time to put the spotlight on these roaches! Great video btw,...with that and all your documentation, pictures etc, the local tv station will love you. Have them take the story to corporate, and skip the local store. The heat will be much greater that way. What they did to your car is more or less vandalism !! People go to jail for that. Actually vandals probably would not have done as much damage !!

2.5 MSG #298, 08-07-2014 02:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Wow........... unbelievable....... they must have left it outside with the sunroof out. Are they the biggest bunch of morons on the planet? I'd just take the car the way it sits before the destroy something else. And take em to court. If they strip that interior they'll break most of the parts and lose the rest.



I agree.
That stinks man.
You gave them every opportunity to make things right.


1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #299, 08-07-2014 04:56 PM
      OMG!!!! Id be furious!! I hope you sue their asses off. I'd make them pay big time. Such disregard for your property. I just can't believe this is a business. I agree that you should show a reporter this.


weloveour86se MSG #300, 08-07-2014 05:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Wow........... unbelievable....... they must have left it outside with the sunroof out. Are they the biggest bunch of morons on the planet? I'd just take the car the way it sits before the destroy something else. And take em to court. If they strip that interior they'll break most of the parts and lose the rest.



I third this!

I wouldn't let these Bozo's touch my car EVER again!! You can hear him say, "We are going to fix everything" in you video. What do you suppose he means?

Call the local cops and have them send an officer. Then call a flat bed tow truck and get your car out of there!! Bring a friend and a video camera. TONS of pictures! And videos!

And then go after Maaco and this shop. Be sure to include Maaco in your claims. Sorry this happened. Damn shame. How the hell is the rear lid bent? Maybe they took it off and put it back on crooked? I just understand how it could bend or twist. Wouldn't it crack or shatter before bending that much?

Please post the shop name and contact info. Also, managers name if you know it.



LornesGT MSG #301, 08-07-2014 06:18 PM
      Nearly fours years of hard work to get it to this point and walk up on that. I would have probably had the cops called on me for how mad I would be. Sorry to see this.

Vernon8360 MSG #302, 08-07-2014 07:05 PM
      Unbelievable!

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #303, 08-07-2014 08:17 PM
      I'm speechless...

85LAMB (linck777@netzero.com) MSG #304, 08-07-2014 09:43 PM
      Wow !!!!
That is completely uncalled for.

Every time people ask me my opinion,
about getting their vehicle painted at Maaco I always tell them not to do it.
I'll give you one example:

I was doing an estimate on a car and while inspecting the car.
I found the left rear frame rail section had been replaced.
the way they replaced it was by using sheet metal screws and sealer.
They did not weld it to the veh at all.
I had to show the repairs to the owner who was an elderly lady.
The veh was so poorly "repair" that we could not touch that car so that we would not be liable.
I ended up providing the owner the pictures and she took them to court.
the shop was a Maaco shop.

My suggestion to you:
Take the car out of the shop
Take a lof of pictures n more video to document the condition of the car.
(if possible take the pics while it is still at the shop, for documentation.

If you don't try to mitigate the damage now, it will only get worse.
Believe me you don't want mildew growing in your car.

To be able to document properly for legal action
I will suggest taking car to a good reputable body shop and have them write and estimate.
Maybe even contact your insurance company to see who do they suggest in your area.

To prevent further damage
remove seats
remove carpet n all padding.
remove center console
if headliner is wet, remove it
you should replace the jute on the carpet, if you can't get it to dry up.
remove the door trim panels,
Try to get everything dry as soon as possible to prevent mildew from growing

I am really sorry this happen




Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #305, 08-08-2014 06:02 AM
      Wow... I'd probably be going to jail.

I wish you the best of luck getting this resolved.
Just damn.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-08-2014).]

jonrev (jonrev@comcast.net) MSG #306, 08-09-2014 03:13 AM
      Video is private, now - hope they got the message...

Danyel MSG #307, 08-09-2014 03:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jonrev:

Video is private, now - hope they got the message...


I posted his video on MAACO Canada facebook page apparently one of the bosses called USA Corporate



JohnWPB MSG #308, 08-09-2014 04:12 PM
      SO that's what happened? The owner of this MAACO emailed me at 10:30 at night saying Corporate called him, and saw the video. I knew I didn't let corporate know about it, and that I just posted it here in my build thread.... Then when I went to MAACO the assistant manager said he got a call at midnight about the video. When he mentioned that, one of the workers spoke up and said his mother called him at 1am and said to go watch this video she found. The general consensus was that everyone at this MAACO heard about the video in a different way, and had seen it.

Anyhow, they had a professional detailer come to the shop, and the interior looks as it did when I dropped it off, other than a couple things. First, my new floor mats are stained. The blue embroidery bled, as well as them placing the headlight covers on there, and then left with the water, for who knows how long leaving left rust stains.



As for the paint job, I have to say it looks ok.... It is the color I wanted in the first place, but there is a lot of over spray, missed areas in the jams ect.

We were all in the office chatting, while I was waiting for a ride from a friend back home. They have always insisted that I got the color that I asked the car to be painted in the beginning. Well, the original guy that had mixed up the wrong color or paint back when the car was painted was sitting in the office. I figured I would give something a try, as it has been a while, and not sure how good him memory was giving the hundreds of cars he has mixed paint for since mine was painted. I pulled out my tablet, and showed him the original photos of the Mustang, and the color I wanted my car. He couldn't remember.... I showed him a couple more and how I mentioned that this blue looked dark at night, and so different in different lighting... He was like Oh Yea.... I then said that is the color I wanted.... He said "yea.... I remember that, and we couldn't find the right color code or something for it"... BOO YAH! The owner heard this, and just kinda kept on with what he was working on on the computer LOL!


Back to the car... There are sanding marks, and razor blade marks on both of the new Chris Cook quarter windows. When I pointed it out, of of the guys said that should wipe off, as they are glass. When I told him that they were plastic, he just said "ohhhhhhhhhh". Also the back of the car, where I had paid to have the lip above the tail light fixed (Mechanic leaned heavily on it) it still not fixed. Even with the brand new paint job, there is a nice crack that you can see through to the primer somehow.

When I showed it to him, he said they are not responsible for that. It is not on the paperwork (Oh GOD, AGAIN! ! ! !) So I tried to explain to him that I did pay for it, and it was fixed, just poorly. He insisted that they did not do repair work in that area, other than just the general sanding in prep for paint. So guess what.... my pictures to the rescue again!


Here is the break as the car was dropped off:


Here is their guy repairing it:


Lastly the freshly repaired area, showing the different color filler that they used to repair it with:


EDIT: Funny thing, I was going through some videos I took when I dropped the car off, and when the guy asked me to sign the paperwork, I clearly mentioned that I was apprehensive about signing it, as the areas I wanted fixed and other details were not on the paperwork. He said that's ok, this is just a release to do the work.....

In the video where I picked the car up originally, I pointed out the area where it was still cracked above the tail light, and he said to bring the car back after the paint cures, and they will definitely fix it correctly.

I swear, I can not even imagine what this would have been like if I did not have the pictures and video's of everything that I do! I have been accused of lying to them about paying to have the crack about the tail lights fixed, the chip in the hood, the door jams being painted, under the hood and trunk being painted, and even under the headlight covers being painted!

When I went back to have the car resprayed, I mentioned that the last time I removed the headlight doors, so the hood and the top and bottom of the doors could be painted correctly. Well, when all was said and done the they did not paint under the headlight doors. He informed me that the headlight doors were still attached and that is whey they probably were not painted. I simply asked him, if this is the case, then how did they not get painted when the rest of underneath the hood was painted. He could not answer that one. I told him, regardless, I need the headlight doors to be painted on the top and bottom. He came back saying that they were attached to the car, I stopped him and said, no, I removed them again, and they are in the trunk to be painted on the top and bottom. He comes back saying that is not part of what I paid for .... Oh God... this again. Luckily, AGAIN, my pictures to the rescue! I had to show him a picture of the headlight doors sitting flat on a table when they were painted. I pointed out that the gas door RIGHT NEXT TO THE HEADLIGHT DOORS was hanging, and being painted on all sides, just as the headlight doors were supposed to be done, and insisting that it was a mistake on their part:

Reluctantly, they agreed to paint the bottom of the headlight doors this time.


Not once, but by 3 different times with the man from corporate, the owner, and then the manager, that I had to prove that I was not lying over and over and over and over again! They only way I have been able to resolve EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE was through the photo's and video's. In fact just the last time I was in there, he mentioned that he replaced the side moldings in good faith as he had no proof that they every had them.... basically calling me a liar again. In the recording where I picked up the car originally, we have a discussion about the side moldings, and how they were not done at the time I picked the car up, and he would call me to come get them when they were ready. I say fine, there is no hurry, just the next time you shoot something satin black, paint those.

To sum it all up, each and EVERY item that I have had to have redone on this car has been a process:
1) Ask for to be done / corrected
2) They inform me it was not in the paperwork / paid for
3) I have to work to convince them that I am not lying to them, and then have to resort to finding pictures and video to prove otherwise
4) with extreme reluctance, they agree to do it

(Do the above list with every item on the car, and repeat a total of 3 times for the different people I have had to deal with)

Anyhow, as I was leaving, they said that they would be able to buff out the sanding and razor blade marks on the quarter windows. I told him I was apprehensive about that, as they are pretty deep cut marks, and he assured me they could do it. He asked me to leave the car over the weekend, and he would call me on Monday morning to come pick it up.

I was concerned about the interior getting trashed again, and asked if it could be covered up. He recommended I go to Harbor Freight and get a tarp, and that is exactly what I did. I returned and helped one of they guys there cover the car. He used my floor mats to hold the plastic down.....
Just to cover my butt here:

Florida makes it a crime to intercept or record a "wire, oral, or electronic communication" in Florida, unless all parties to the communication consent. See Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03. Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-27-2014).]

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #309, 08-11-2014 10:02 AM
      Omg John!

I'm so sorry to hear all this complete crap you have been going through. Yeah for the videos. And Patty wonders why im so paranoid with our cars... I have nightmares about this exact thing. Note to self for future... get everything always in writing!

You have worked so hard on that car.... it just breaks my heart. I told Patty you and i are cut from the same cloth when it comes to our meticulous nature and horrendous bad luck. Don't let them get away with it!

We are praying and rooting for you!



2.5 MSG #310, 08-11-2014 10:09 AM
      Sounds like they are trying, some of them, but are still incapable and dont understand what customer service is.

JohnWPB MSG #311, 08-11-2014 03:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Sounds like they are trying, some of them, but are still incapable and dont understand what customer service is.


Jason, that probably sums this entire situation in that one sentence. As I have to at least admit they are trying.... failing along the way, but definitely trying.


I am keeping track of everything and posting a lot of information in this thread, to keep a journal for if and when it becomes necessary to get an attorney. I wanted to avoid that route, as it can take so much time and effort as well as being a long drawn out process, and also quite expensive.

Over the past couple pages, I have mentioned, that they basically call me a liar on everything related to the car. The other day was no exception. The battery on the car was dead when I got there. They said that they have been pushing it around to the paint booth, and prep area as needed. I told them that there is no problem with the car, and the battery is new. I tell him the car goes a week or more at a time in the carport without being started, and the battery has never drained. They insisted that the car is old, and the battery goes dead from just sitting somehow, and that it is most certainly nothing that they did. We go back and forth on this, and he is insistent that it is not their fault in any way that the battery is dead in the car.

I had a look at the pictures I have taken over time, and noticed that the trunk appears to be open in all of the photos of the car. He tells me that that's correct, as they have been working in the jams and such. I ask if it's been that way since I dropped it off, and he said yes. I then proceed to walk over and open the trunk and point out 3 LED light panels in the trunk; one in the stock location, and one on each end under the lip that the trunk gasket goes around. I tell him even when the trunk is down, and it is not COMPLETELY latched, all 3 of those lights are on, and that is how the battery has went dead. I got the typical response... "oh."


EDIT: I have been wondering something and it has been bothering me. When the owner emailed me, he asked me to remove the video of the damage to my car from YouTube. When I went to the shop, he asked again, and said that The Corporate office was looking into it, as I did not have permission to video tape them, and they will be contacting me. This made me nervous enough to mark the Video as private on YouTube, but I didn't remove it.....

I did a little research today, and came across this on a legal website. The fact that it takes place HERE in West Palm Beach, is just a crazy coincidence!

This pretty much sums it up, that I was 100% within my legal rights to record audio or Video at MAACO, with or without express consent.
Here is the link to the page I copied the information below from.
Question:
Asked 3 months ago - West Palm Beach, FL
I had someone come into my business and video taped a conversation without my consent and is now posting it on youtube.
Is this legal and what actions can I take? This was a hidden camera.
Attorney answers (2)


Response:
Christopher Robert Dillingham II : Licensed in FL : Civil Rights Attorney - Apopka, FL


There is not reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place or a public business; therefore, no crime or tort exists. The Supreme Court calls this the "unreliable ear" doctrine. In other words, if someone can see it and hear it in public, then they can record it.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-11-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #312, 08-11-2014 11:00 PM
      Trying to take my mind off of MAACO for a bit, I started to look into some things I had been wanting to learn more about and do with the interior. I posted a thread asking about different steering wheel options for the Fiero. PaulJK had a couple Firebird steering wheels that he said were fairly easy to install. I looked into them a bit, and it was the older style with the radio control buttons and such in the middle of the wheel. Not quite what I was looking for. I wanted something a little more modern.

He then pointed me to Rickady88GT's build thread, and a Mailbu steering wheel that he had customized:

That is ONE SEXY STEERING WHEEL, but also unfortunately, it entailed changing the entire steering column. Definitely something I did not want to get into.

Continuing with the direction Paul pointed me in, I found a post bu jscott1 showing a more modern Firebird steering wheel in his Fiero:


This was more in the direction that I wanted to go, and I found a 93' Firebird steering wheel on eBay, and got it for $40 shipped. It has the radio controls and such where they are easily accessable with thumbs while driving. I have a custom circuit board to interface the buttons with my CarPC, and ability to assign any button on the steering wheel to any function.


As you can see the center is missing, but after reading Rickady88GT's thread, and how he constructed the center out of fiberglass, I am going to attempt to do the same with the Firebird steering wheel.

This is an image from Rickady88GT's thread, showing how he created a custom center for the Malibu steering wheel.



And just as a raw unfinished part inserted into the steering wheel:



I just got a notification that the steering wheel was shipped, and will be here next Monday. I am hoping that there is no major work involved with trying to get this to all work, and installed in my Fiero.


This is a very rough Photoshop of what I am thinking it could look like when I get done:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-11-2014).]

zzzhuh MSG #313, 08-11-2014 11:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:

I'm so sorry to hear all this complete crap you have been going through. Yeah for the videos. And Patty wonders why im so paranoid with our cars... I have nightmares about this exact thing. Note to self for future... get everything always in writing!



Better yet, never go to Macco. They are scam artist's and want nothing but your money. I will never even attempt to go to any useless place like this. Definitely finding a good business to get my car painted when I find the money/time.



2.5 MSG #314, 08-12-2014 08:44 AM
      John you should put some leds in the steering wheel center to backlight the Fiero logo.

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #315, 08-12-2014 12:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

John you should put some leds in the steering wheel center to backlight the Fiero logo.

That would be cool!


JohnWPB MSG #316, 08-12-2014 09:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

John you should put some leds in the steering wheel center to backlight the Fiero logo.


Like I do not have enough to do and worry about right now! But, yea.... good idea

How to pull it off I don't know. Light will show through fiberglass no problem. Not so much wen you add gel-coat and paint to it.. I am still just trying to figure out how to make a horn work with a fiberglass plug that has to be mounted on the steering wheel in some custom way......


Well I have not heard back from Maaco. They were supposed to call me yesterday to come pick the car up. It has been at the shop a staggering 2 months now.......
I have went through old receipts and have the invoices printed out for the purchase of the floor mats that have been ruined, as well as the quarter windows.




2.5 MSG #317, 08-13-2014 11:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Like I do not have enough to do and worry about right now! But, yea.... good idea

How to pull it off I don't know. Light will show through fiberglass no problem. Not so much wen you add gel-coat and paint to it.. I am still just trying to figure out how to make a horn work with a fiberglass plug that has to be mounted on the steering wheel in some custom way......




I'm no expert either just get ideas.

Some kind of clear piece such as acrylic molded into the fiberglass and painted around probably.
For the horn a little hidden button, unless it has to be big and easy to hit?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-13-2014).]

redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #318, 08-13-2014 01:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I'm no expert either just get ideas.

Some kind of clear piece such as acrylic molded into the fiberglass and painted around probably.



Or you do the whole thing with acrylic and mold and paint it. You could even cut the fiero emblem or etch it to create a fiber optic style glow to the edging versus a back lit design. I made a glowing floating amp rack for the mustang this way.




I have cut & then painted (backside) some lexan pieces for the mustang and they have turned out well.


I'm trying to psych myself into vacuum forming. So many cool possibilities there.

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 08-13-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #319, 08-16-2014 10:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:


Or you do the whole thing with acrylic and mold and paint it. You could even cut the fiero emblem or etch it to create a fiber optic style glow to the edging versus a back lit design. I made a glowing floating amp rack for the mustang this way.


Wow, that looks really good! Unfortunately trying to cut a clear piece of acrylic into the Fiero Logo, and then somehow embed it into fiberglass, keeping the same shape and all.... a little more difficult
I will toy around with it here, and see if I could come up with something....

I just got off the Phone with the manager at Maaco. He said all they have to do is fix the quarter windows, and they would probably do that on Monday. Not sure what they have been doing with the car for the week and a half since I was there last.

I mentioned the bad repair job in the back, and he says he as to get the owners approval to fix that, being it is not on the paperwork. I will probably have to go down there again, and show him the pictures of that area being repaired in the first place, just to prove, yet again, that it was paid for and done, just badly.




JohnWPB MSG #320, 08-19-2014 08:42 AM
      Yesterday sucked. Will (InfinateWill) was in Ft. Lauderdale yesterday, and I had plans to go down and watch his PhotoShop class and do lunch. I came down with some sort of bug be it a cold, flu... who knows. I haven't gotten sick in like 4 years... bad timing....

Anyways, I was woke up at 3:30 PM yesterday afternoon by my postal worker delivering a package. (Yes, I was sleeping as I felt like total crap). Anyhow, I got the package from her and went back and laid down. When I decided to get up around 6:00, I opened up my new steering wheel and got a chance to get a good look at how the wires were ran and such. Still feeling like crap, I ate dinner and went back and laid down again. I woke up around midnight, and could NOT go back to sleep, as I slept so much in the previous day. I got up, and surprisingly feeling quite a bit better.

I got more of a chance to look at the wheel, and get some stuff done. At 1am I was in the shed with the multi-meter and getting readings on the steering wheel. The four wires from the left controls, and the 4 wires from the right control meet, and tie in, to then produce only 4 wires on the harness.



Through trial and error and about a half hour of testing all sorts of combinations, I was able to figure that all of the switches, both left and right, just use the Yellow and the Green wires. That determined, I was able to get the Ohms for each individual switch.



The new problem is now with further testing, i need both of those wires run down the wheel to get a signal, as ground is not involved in any way. I was originally going to use the horn wire to send the signal down the column. It looks like I am going to need to find a 2007 Firebird in the junk yard, and pull it apart to get the lower portion of it. I have never done something like this, so it is going to be a challenge for sure.

In the mean time, I started sculpting some green foam into the rough shape to make a mold for a cover for the center of the steering wheel:


Thats it for now, as I have to leave for work... man my hours are so screwed up right now.....


JohnWPB MSG #321, 08-25-2014 12:09 PM
      I called MAACO last Saturday (08/16/14) and they said the car was almost done. They said that they were going to fix the windows come Monday morning. I gave them another week, and stopped by this morning. They had not done the windows yet, and they also had not fixed the crack in the clip above the tail lights. They also had yet to fix the door jams where the over spray ruined where they prepainted that area. I also noticed that the decklid was still crooked. Basically, they have done nothing in the past 3 weeks since I was there last.

Today Dominick apologized, and said that they were going to put it back in line immediately. He said that they were going to re-fix the crack in the decklid, fix the door jams, align the decklid, re-spray underneath the decklid where the paint had all bubbled up. They finally agreed to re-paint the black molding above the rear bumper after I was able to prove with photos that they indeed did paint it the first time it was in their shop. Both Geovani and Domnick agreed to this.

Supposedly it will be ready late next week..... I just have to wait and see.


davylong86 MSG #322, 08-25-2014 12:34 PM
      Damn John, I hope this ends with good results.You have been more than fair with these people and deserve to be a top priority to see this gets done right and in a timely fashion.Good luck

[This message has been edited by davylong86 (edited 08-25-2014).]

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #323, 08-26-2014 12:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I called MAACO last Saturday (08/16/14) and they said the car was almost done. They said that they were going to fix the windows come Monday morning. I gave them another week, and stopped by this morning. They had not done the windows yet, and they also had not fixed the crack in the clip above the tail lights. They also had yet to fix the door jams where the over spray ruined where they prepainted that area. I also noticed that the decklid was still crooked. Basically, they have done nothing in the past 3 weeks since I was there last.

Today Dominick apologized, and said that they were going to put it back in line immediately. He said that they were going to re-fix the crack in the decklid, fix the door jams, align the decklid, re-spray underneath the decklid where the paint had all bubbled up. They finally agreed to re-paint the black molding above the rear bumper after I was able to prove with photos that they indeed did paint it the first time it was in their shop. Both Geovani and Domnick agreed to this.

Supposedly it will be ready late next week..... I just have to wait and see.


Your car is not making money for them so they will push it aside every time a paid job comes in. You may not like this but I'm telling you this will continue for as long as you let it go. I can see Daytona show with your car still in that shop if they can get away with it. I know you want to give them chance to do good but every minute that car is at that shop there is big opportunity/risk for something else (or the same) to go wrong. New employee arrives and push it outside when it is raining. Throw away parts left scattered/unlabeled. Etc. etc. You should cut your losses and move that car out of there like right now. I'm just being brutally honest. Sorry.


Danyel MSG #324, 08-26-2014 12:36 PM
      I've been following up on this ever since you posted the video ..... I really think these guys are stalling you ... I would get a laywer in there before this whole things blows up in your face .... the time is up my friend you have been OVERLY patient with these numbnuts.... I agree with the previous post .... they are really laughing at you or think your a softy ...
Hope all turns out right for ya ...
greatest regards my american friend

Danyel



GKDINC MSG #325, 08-26-2014 12:57 PM
      What Alex said!!! You need to get that car out of there.
Good Luck
Gary


Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #326, 08-26-2014 04:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

It was not until I opened the door, that I literally got sick to my stomach...


I just watched your video. Wow. That was just freakin' disgusting. How the hell can any business operate in that manner?

I really hope you are able to gain some measure of satisfaction when all is said and done.


JohnWPB MSG #327, 08-30-2014 09:11 PM
      Well, I went to MAACO yesterday to get the car, Again..... and they had not touched it during the week from what it looked like. The owner, Giovanni said that they will be open tomorrow (Saturday) from 9am to 1pm, and I should come back tomorrow and it will be done. I asked if noon would be good and he said yes. So I asked again just before I left, are you going to call me, or should I just come by at noon..... He replied to come at noon and get it.

So, today I stopped in at 12:15 to pick it up, and they were putting the deck lid back on the car. They said they had to take it back off to repaint underneath, where the paint was all bubbled up. I looked underneath to see the newly fixed paint.....It was not really a shocker to see that the paint is still 100% bubbled up, as you can see clearly in this photo:


It looked like absolutely nothing had been done. He tried to assure me that they had completely sanded down the area and repainted. I asked how, if it was sanded it could still be bubbled up in the same exact same way and spot. If the bubbles had been sanded, even poorly, then there would be small circles, (craters) and not bubbles with domes on them. He said if I want to pay for it, they can re-strip and paint it! Seriously! ! ! The crack was still above the tail light,, and the door jams are still a mess, Overspray, and where there is no paint all the way down to the original color, where it looks like someone attempted to remove the overspray, as you an see:


I had taken off the headlight doors, and made it very clear that they forgot to paint underneath of them last time. I showed them pictures of them on a table (not hung up next to the gas door assembly), but laying flat when they were painted. He assured me they would take care of that. Well, they decided to put the headlight doors back on for me, looking like this:



Both the drivers and passenger doors are warped where the Mr. Mike's lower door panel cardboard had gotten wet. Again, as you can see:


Luckliy I had typed of a list of 15 things that they were to do to the car when I left it there almost 3 months ago. Most of the items on the list were not done. I gave the store manager Dominick a copy, and had him sign another copy, that I have here in my safe

One of the items on the list, was to fix the belt line molding on top of the back bumper. When they originally painted it, the did not prep it at all, and the paint literally just flaked off. After going back 4 to 5 times, they finally painted it in the past few days. Well they DID paint it, however they did not sand, or prep or anything at all, other than take a spray can to it. Here is an example of the quality craftsmanship of their work..... So sad..... (The white you see, is the original color that the previous owner painted it, and is still that way after being "painted" twice by them now)



I told him, enough is enough, and I want the car back now, and I am going to have to get a lawyer to get this resolved. He said he can't do that as it is blocked in. I said well move the other cars then, and he refused. I actually had to get on the phone with the Sheriff's Office to get him to move the cars blocking mine in, and the then told the guys to get the piece of crap out of his shop. They pushed the car around (the battery dead due to leaving the trunk and doors open) and half pushed it into a parking space and said there. It was 12:25 at this time, and they closed up the shop, and all left me there with the dead battery.

I had to go back to the house, and get a pair of jumper cables. While I was jumping the car, someone that works in the same plaza was telling me that they left my car out in the rain with no windshield. I was like Yea, I know, the interior of the car was soaked, and they denied ever leaving it out in the rain. He said..... ready...... Seriously.... are you ready for this? "But I have a video of it! ! ! ! ! Wow, I never have good luck like this. He blue-toothed me over the video, and sure enough... the car was left out in the pouring rain, no sunroof, windows down, and no front windshield. He said he was watching them, and they hurried when it started raining and pulled a few other cars in, and left mine sitting there. In the screen capture below, that I took from the video, you can see an employee just standing there with his hands in his pockets looking at my car in the rain. Clearly they 100% knew it was out in the rain, and not just an oversight. Here is a screen shot from the video:


This does a few things, first I have them on video saying over and over and over again that the car was never left in the rain. This little video now proves without a doubt that they were lying. Secondly it shows sheer negligence on their part, and total disregard of one of their customers property. I forgot to mention that the rain shorted out a couple of the gauges in the dash. The speedometer now shows the car doing 100 MPH with the engine off. In the picture I posted a month or so ago, of the car covered inside and out with dust, you can clearly see the speedometer reading at 0 MPH as it should.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 09-10-2014).]

FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #328, 08-30-2014 10:22 PM
      Holy crap man. What a bunch of b.s.



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #329, 08-30-2014 10:23 PM
      I figured it would come to this. I'm sorry that it had to, though.
Seems like it would have been a lot easier for them to just suck it up and do the right thing.

Burn them and bury them. (Legally speaking, of course.)


1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #330, 08-30-2014 10:34 PM
      I hope you make them pay big time. I also hope corporate fires every last one of them. So unprofessional.

Old Lar MSG #331, 08-31-2014 08:52 AM
      I'm sorry the mess Maacco made of your car. There is no excuse for such shoddy performance from a "reputable" franchise". I can only hope that some legal action can eliminate that franchise from continuing business.

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #332, 08-31-2014 10:55 AM
      Ok. So you have a lot of evidence. Call corporate and tell them they have a last chance to send you quickly a check (better a wire transfer) for the amount you want. Otherwise on top of your legal case you will post video and pictures on every car forum and media out there and that you will also call the news channels. Tell them that you are a teacher or trainer with access to hundreds of people which you will tell the story and show pictures. Since they were a little freaked out with the first video maybe they will listen. Good luck man.

Danyel MSG #333, 08-31-2014 06:30 PM
      Well my friend your car is back safely with you ..... get legal council and SUE THEIR A$$ES OFF !!! You have ALL you need to get a satisfactory compensation to have your car COMPLETELY redone interior and exterior and a financial settlement for prevoked grief and lost of your car for MONTHS

regards my friend .... better days headin your way
Danyel


exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #334, 08-31-2014 10:07 PM
      i agree with Alex, call corporate and explain your evidence. you saw how quickly they reacted when they got wind of your last video. imagine if they know you have worse

i would tell them to get their check books ready.

I am telling you every news station in the state would be chomping at the bit to tell this story !!

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 08-31-2014).]

zzzhuh MSG #335, 08-31-2014 11:39 PM
      After following this post constantly Im VERY pissed for you. I would grab that video the guy has and hold onto it. The people at this place are obviously a joke and should be shut down and pay for a brand new interior, and a proper paint job by someone professionally. Please keep us up to date.



redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #336, 09-02-2014 08:50 AM
      Go get them and be sure to use these terms when speaking to your course of action!
1.INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS

The tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress has four elements: (1) the defendant must act intentionally or recklessly; (2) the defendant's conduct must be extreme and outrageous; and (3) the conduct must be the cause (4) of severe emotional distress.

2. negligent infliction of emotional distress

The tort of negligent infliction of emotional distress (NIED) is a controversial cause of action, which is available in nearly all U.S. states but is severely constrained and limited in the majority of them. The underlying concept is that one has a legal duty to use reasonable care to avoid causing emotionaldistress to another individual. If one fails in this duty and unreasonably causes emotional distress to another person, that actor will beliable for monetary damages to the injured individual. The tort is to be contrasted withintentional infliction of emotional distress in that there is no need to prove intent to inflict distress. That is, an accidental infliction, if negligent, is sufficient to support a cause of action.


JohnWPB MSG #337, 09-08-2014 12:57 PM
      Well, since getting the car back, I have had all sorts of problems with it starting. I had this issue before I went to MAACO, so I unfortunately can not blame them for the ONE thing LOL. I started another thread for just the problem, to keep this one more on track with just the build. I have have yet to find a solution to the problem. I will be getting new Pick-Up coil in the mail tomorrow, and will try to get that installed this coming weekend.

tshark MSG #338, 09-08-2014 01:41 PM
      Yep, lawyer time. I think they're just screwing you around. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

BTW, doesn't JimmyS paint the whole Fiero, panel-off, for a reasonable price? I know you two know each other, and are just on opposite sides of the state.


JohnWPB MSG #339, 09-08-2014 05:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

BTW, doesn't JimmyS paint the whole Fiero, panel-off, for a reasonable price? I know you two know each other, and are just on opposite sides of the state.

LOL! Did he put you up to posting that? LOL!?!?!?




tshark MSG #340, 09-08-2014 07:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

LOL! Did he put you up to posting that? LOL!?!?!?



No. And he probably wouldn't thank me for it, either. Just not a fan of MAACO. What's funny?

If I found someone that needed RPO stickers, I'd mention you.

Fortunately, he doesn't leave FL, so he probably won't be after me here.


JohnWPB MSG #341, 09-08-2014 08:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
No. And he probably wouldn't thank me for it, either. Just not a fan of MAACO. What's funny?


We talked about painting my car some time back, and he said he could do it. We never got into serious negotiations or anything. Since the MAACO disaster, he has dropped a couple "I told you so's" It seemed like you were in on the joke when I read your post hehehe




tshark MSG #342, 09-08-2014 08:35 PM
      No. If it makes you feel better, he laughed at me, too. But I'm further away.

Danyel MSG #343, 09-08-2014 08:39 PM
      John... any updates on what direction you will be taking with these clowns. Any pics on the status of your car since it is now back home?
THX
Danyel



JohnWPB MSG #344, 09-08-2014 10:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Danyel:

John... any updates on what direction you will be taking with these clowns. Any pics on the status of your car since it is now back home?
THX
Danyel



Lawyers want a few grand to get started on something, and I found that even small claims court here in the US needs $350 up front cost to file the paperwork. I have been cut back at work, and money is a little tight to go throwing $350 towards filing paperwork. Hopefully things will be on the upswing financially here soon, and hope that there is no short term time I have to file a suit against them.

The car is not running right now, and not in the best spot to take pictures.. I will get some posted soon as I can get the car to move



dobey MSG #345, 09-08-2014 10:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Lawyers want a few grand to get started on something, and I found that even small claims court here in the US needs $350 up front cost to file the paperwork. I have been cut back at work, and money is a little tight to go throwing $350 towards filing paperwork. Hopefully things will be on the upswing financially here soon, and hope that there is no short term time I have to file a suit against them.

The car is not running right now, and not in the best spot to take pictures.. I will get some posted soon as I can get the car to move


All the more reason to lawyer up. Leaving your car out in the rain with all the glass removed like that could have caused damage to many things. You'll need to prove damage beyond "moldy interior" probably, but from my POV, they basically owe you a whole new Fiero at this point. Gauges, fuel pump, and ECM could all have been damaged (and causing your intermittent woes) from the rain, as well as the damage done to the carpet, seats, and the rest of the interior.


jmbishop (jmbishop05@aol.com) MSG #346, 09-08-2014 11:32 PM
      I would try to work something out with corporate first, you have another damming video. I'd ask for the car to be repainted at another location and some money for the interior or just a good sized check.

Danyel MSG #347, 09-09-2014 12:21 AM
      Dont USA laywers go on percentage won for their rates or salary??? This is ALOT more than a small claims .... I would send a copy to corporate ... you could even post on Facebook... that way I can post on MAACO Canada Facebook too !!!

Please dont let the time run out my friend you and your fiero deserve BETTER

Danyel

[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 09-09-2014).]

seq (pennocksfiero@chrisirwin.ca) MSG #348, 09-09-2014 01:38 AM
      Lawyers and facebook aside, have you attempted the local news' consumer advocate route?



tshark MSG #349, 09-09-2014 08:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seq:

Lawyers and facebook aside, have you attempted the local news' consumer advocate route?



This is a good idea. I also like the idea of going to corporate.


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #350, 09-09-2014 08:37 AM
      Just brain storming here.....

You need to go to the news & better business bureau. Maybe talk to someone at Angie's list. They might want to know about such bad business. We have Clark Howard here in Georgia who helps people. Do you have a talk show personally that helps the community? Talk to some talk radio shows and morning shows. The video caused a stir the first time... try that route again. I still say the news will be interested. You have enough concrete evidence. If they have done it to you they have done it to others. Go to local insurance agents. They have to use shops. See if they can give you some advise. At least see if any insurance company uses that Maaco. Go tell the insurance rep the truth about their practices.

Drop the terms I mentioned to corporate. Tell them you have all the evidence right now to go to a lawyer and win so what can they do for you? You tried it their way and their shop just made it all that much worse.

Do you know anyone who is friends with a lawyer who might be willing to at least write a nasty letter for $100? Look online for a Draft of letters? Maybe if corporate thinks there will be a lawsuit they will settle for something fair.


2.5 MSG #351, 09-09-2014 08:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:

I would try to work something out with corporate first.


I think I agree. Then next, the media, that should be free.


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #352, 09-09-2014 12:48 PM
      Was just thinking. Have you kept corporate in the loop this whole time.

If memory serves.... a rep came down right? They initially agreed that everything needed to be fixed and fired folks from the first paint job. Then they let the shop and current crew handle it. Do they know the crap that this new group has been pulling? They can't fight you on your wonderful documentation of every step. Maybe just pulling them back in will work. Is each store a franchise? They should take the franchise from them.


JohnWPB MSG #353, 09-09-2014 04:36 PM
      Ok, I just did something I have never wanted to do.... ask for financial help. I set up a GoFundMe.com page. I thought long and hard on this over the past couple weeks. I do NOT like asking for handouts, and have always enjoyed giving far more than receiving. I really do, from the Tyler Build in MN, the Joel Build in Georgia, Flying out to Dallas with InfinateWill to get Stu back on his feet with the dew wipes. It is very gratifying, and I always try to help where I can. It feels wrong to be on the opposite side of things......

Honestly, It just came to the point where I can not afford to try to resolve this myself. I have the car back, and can eventually get it all back in shape over time. That kills me though, as I know 100% that MAACO should be responsible for this! I called a few attorneys, and it seems only the personal injury lawyers (ambulance chasers) work on a contingency plan. Every other lawyer wants money up front to do anything.

I do not have high hopes for the GoFundMe page, as I know times are tough for a lot of people right now. I am just in the hopes that it will help a little bit, and I can come up with the rest to get this into a courtroom.

With all of the photographic, and video evidence I have, I can honestly say with 99% certainty that this would be an open and closed case in my favor.

Anyhow, if anyone is interested, and could help at all, it would be SO MUCH APPRECIATED! If you can not help, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT IT! I KNOW times are tough. Maybe you could just post the link to the page on your Facebook page, that would be a big help.

The page is at http://www.gofundme.com/e9mdwk


Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #354, 09-09-2014 07:20 PM
      Here's what I would do:

The limit in small claims court in Florida is $5000. The cost of filing in small claims court is very low, a filing fee and the cost of service by certified mail. Sounds like you have ample evidence, I would take this matter to small claims court. If no one shows up for MAACO you will be awarded a default judgment. You might want to send a certified letter to corporate stating your intention to file suit and giving them 10 days to make you whole.


JohnWPB MSG #355, 09-09-2014 07:23 PM
      Small claims court is $350 to file the paperwork in Florida, and can award up to $5,000. I am thinking to get this car painted correctly, all the stuff fixed, and replace the interior parts is going to cost more than that. That is the reason I am wanting to get a lawyer, and let him work his magic on the numbers.



Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #356, 09-09-2014 07:29 PM
      Ok, I am biased against lawyers because of the way they robbed us when handling a divorce we helped our daughter pay for, hopefully your experience will be better.

85sliverGT (zymogenesyst@hotmail.com) MSG #357, 09-09-2014 08:26 PM
      John does the website take a piece of the money or does 100% get to you?

JohnWPB MSG #358, 09-09-2014 09:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85sliverGT:

John does the website take a piece of the money or does 100% get to you?


They keep 5% for processing.


jmbishop (jmbishop05@aol.com) MSG #359, 09-09-2014 10:33 PM
      They take money out, some for processing and a very small amount for use of their service.

85sliverGT (zymogenesyst@hotmail.com) MSG #360, 09-10-2014 08:18 PM
      Fair enough, i chipped in a little for ya John. Don't let them win on this, they are clearly in the wrong.

This whole situation reminds me of a book i love: Unscrewed: The Consumer's Guide to Getting What You Paid For


TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #361, 09-10-2014 08:53 PM
      Stick it to Them....I am sick of good people getting SCREWED!


Danyel MSG #362, 09-10-2014 08:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TXOPIE:

Stick it to Them....I am sick of good people getting SCREWED!


How true ....too many good people getting the short end of the stick !!!!!


mental floss MSG #363, 09-10-2014 09:57 PM
      I'll run from MAACO if it comes to body work. Your experience has made a believer out of me and I plan on telling the car people I know to look at what they did to your car.

Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #364, 09-10-2014 10:36 PM
      If someone could get an email address for the corporate complaint person I bet a lot of us would be willing to send an email of protest.

mrfred8 MSG #365, 09-10-2014 10:38 PM
      I posted the video on every Maaco facebook page I could find and encourage everyone else using facebook to do so. The other franchisee owners can put pressure on Corporate to force this location to do the right thing and/or pull the franchise. FYI, the corporate franchiser for Maaco also franchises Merlin and Meinke remember that when deciding where to get work done.

I posted this message "Wow, this franchisee is giving Maaco a bad name https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riLS_4guzdY "

if everyone posts up to all the Maaco pages on facebook they will not be able to ignore it.


Vernon8360 MSG #366, 09-11-2014 11:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

If someone could get an email address for the corporate complaint person I bet a lot of us would be willing to send an email of protest.


Got a reply from MAACO ... I sent them the video


quote
From: betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com
To:
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:55:33 -0400
Subject: RE: You should look at this video on YOUTUBE MAACO in trouble

Good Morning Danyel,

Thank you for contacting us. We have been notified about the situation and appreciate your email.

Thanks and have a great day!

You asked for an e-mail address at corporate? Looks like Danyel has found one that is viable. I think we need to encourage Ms Betsy McDonald to do the right thing. Please write politely but firmly. Remind her of the power of social media and its influence on both current and potential customers. They need to fix this.

betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com



mental floss MSG #367, 09-11-2014 01:29 PM
      It's one thing to mess up. It's totally unacceptable not to correct mistakes you're responsible for causing.

JohnWPB MSG #368, 09-30-2014 10:03 PM
      I am flying down Andrew (1984WhiteSC ) from Minneapolis to visit the beginning of November. Sort of a "working vacation". He will be here a week, and we will work on the car a couple of those days. In preparation, today I ordered 2 of every rubber bushing for the front and rear of the car. We will also be doing a grand am brake swap + the S-10 Brake Booster upgrade The brake swap should take no time, as I purchased another Fiero that has the swap completed already. It also has the braided lines on all 4 courners instead of the rubber. It should be a nice bolt on replacement.

On top of that, here are the suspension parts I have already, (minus the shocks for the front that I already installed.)

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 09-30-2014).]

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #369, 09-30-2014 10:07 PM
      Glad to see you pressing forward John.

jmbishop (jmbishop05@aol.com) MSG #370, 09-30-2014 10:51 PM
      We have seen a few projects abandoned after a bad shop gets a hold of them, I am glad to see it's still moving.

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #371, 09-30-2014 11:49 PM
      Yeah...like my choptop at Whodeanie's.

Vernon8360 MSG #372, 10-01-2014 03:11 PM
      Andrew on an airplane? Encouraged by John? I am worried. Based upon photographic evidence from this years caravan to Frazee someone needs to tell Andrew to leave the flying to the pilot and keep the windows of the plane closed.


A Fiero with "wings" on its way to Frazee.....Wheeeeeeeee!



1984whitesc (fiero1g2am@yahoo.com) MSG #373, 10-01-2014 07:19 PM
      I thought it was an uplifting experience.



JohnWPB MSG #374, 10-01-2014 07:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1984whitesc:

I thought it was an uplifting experience.




Oh wow..... boo hiss! Ba Dum bum CHHHhhhh

Great Picture.... You did have to take it at the one time that it looks like we were out of sync LOL!



JohnWPB MSG #375, 10-03-2014 03:32 PM
      Here is the rest of the suspension stuff to be replaced. Hopefully I have everything. I have 2 of each rubber bushing (right and left).





JohnWPB MSG #376, 10-09-2014 01:21 AM
      I received my door panels a couple days ago from the Fiero Store, and I have to say I am impressed with the sturdiness of them. The Fiero Store had donated a set for the Daytona Show to be raffled away, but in all the chaos of the show, I did not really get a good chance to look them over or review them. The panels are made of what appears to be a solid ABS plastic, and are quite thick, and do not bend at all, just the way you would want them to be, nice and solid!

I am eventually going to upholster the door panels, but wanted to test fit everything before doing so.

I have a set of Polk Audio speakers that I bought quite a few years ago to go in my Eclipse, before I totaled it. When I was looking at the Fiero Store panels, I remembered I had those speakers, and dug them out of the back of the closet, thinking I had a fat chance of them being the right size. Low and behold, they are 6.5" speakers. Next, I thought they still will probably not work, as the panels require a shallow mount speaker, 2" depth. Again, I was shocked to find that the speakers I had, once again, were the correct size!

Anyhow, here is a look at the back of the panel, with the "Christmas Tree" fasteners in place. They are supplied with the panels.

.

I put the door panel in the door, and everything fit into place easily. The panel lines up perfectly around the door, and all the clips pushed in easily. Placing the arm rest and door handle / lock mechanism lined up and installed easily as well.


Overall I am very happy with the thickness, quality, and fitment of the panels. This is a great item that fixes a known problem with the Fiero, where to put decent speakers! Kudos to the Fiero Store for making these available!

I will post more pictures here when I get the panels upholstered and completed.




Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #377, 10-09-2014 08:16 AM
      Those are nice door panels

JohnWPB MSG #378, 10-10-2014 10:35 PM
      I dropped the door panels off at a local upholsterer, and they should be done on Tuesday.

Tonight I started tinkering with the CarPC. I originally had a small form factor PC that I was going to use, and install behind the passenger seat. It would require that PC and a separate touch screen and a VGA cable run to the dash. I decided to go with a Slate PC instead. The one I have runs the full version of Windows 8.1. On top of that, with Blue Stack software, I can also run android app's as well. It seems like the perfect solution...... it's got an 11.2 inch screen, and it's less than half an inch thick. I picked it up on eBay for $240 some time ago. It is going to be built into the custom center console when all is said and done.

I did the first preliminary test of it being controlled by the steering wheel controls. Here is a short video of the first test with the steering wheel controls:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-10-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #379, 10-11-2014 02:31 AM
      I also found the material that I had purchased some time ago to put into the front bumper for the grill. I attached the Fiero emblem, that I also bought some time ago, to the grill using 2 part epoxy. The more I work on the car, the more little things I keep finding that I had gathered to put the car together!




This is what it looks like from the front, with the epoxy all hardened and ready to install:


Finally, here is the grill installed, with the Fiero logo in the center:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-11-2014).]

Camel (camelhmpz@aol.com) MSG #380, 10-14-2014 08:58 PM
      Very cool progress on the Car PC John

nosaint MSG #381, 10-14-2014 11:03 PM
      love this thread, keep up with the updates!



JohnWPB MSG #382, 10-14-2014 11:30 PM
      I was supposed to pick up my upholstered Fiero Store speaker door panels today. When I called at 3pm he said he got the material delivered late, so looks like tomorow.

I tried something different, and really hope that it works. I gave him black microfiber cloth to do the door uppers, and the bottoms are going to be done in the same blue vinyl to match the Mr. Mike's seats. I went with the microfiber, as I think it will dampen the cabin noise a bit. I put it on my headliner, and notice a huge difference. I am going to do it on the waterfall behind the seats as well. As for the door tops, it will be soft and cooler to put my arm on when driving, vs sticking to vinyl / plastic.

I am dying to see what they look like with the speakers installed in them, and mounted on the doors!


JohnWPB MSG #383, 10-17-2014 10:35 AM
      I picked up my door panels from the Upholsterer yesterday. They look great! I went with black micro-suade for the top, and the electric blue on the bottom to match my seats:


He did a bit of nice stitch work to prevent a pleat around the speaker housing:


Here is the speaker, baffle and all hardware ready to attach:


Speaker mounted and installed into the door panel:


Here is an angle from inside the car. He matched the color of the seats perfectly!


Lastly, here is a close up of the panel on the door. I still need to add the caps and hardware to cover the screws.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-17-2014).]

davylong86 MSG #384, 10-17-2014 11:42 AM
      Looking good! Nice new (and dry) door panels. Did it close the gap at the bottom of the door? I'm really liking these panels.

JohnWPB MSG #385, 10-17-2014 01:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by davylong86:

Looking good! Nice new (and dry) door panels. Did it close the gap at the bottom of the door? I'm really liking these panels.


It closed it a little bit, but it is still there. Just not quite as noticeable.




fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #386, 10-18-2014 01:22 PM
      The interior is coming along great John......Glad to see you getting your car back to normal.

JohnWPB MSG #387, 11-11-2014 09:14 AM
      Andrew is down from Minneapolis, and we are replacing all of the front suspension. The Fiero that I purcahses a couple weeks ago for parts, has a brand new 4 wheel brake upgrade on it! New Grand Am slotted and drilled rotors and calipers on the front, and slotted and drilled on the rear. It also has stainless steel brake lines, as well as front and rear sway bars. Needless to say it is all being swapped onto my car.

Pressing out the bearings and sleeves proved to be a ROYAL pain! I had to take the upper and lower control arms to a machine shop to get them to do it. It took us over an hour to get one of the sleeves out, and I was not about to do that 7 more times for just the front control arms alone! The rubber bushing is no problem, the sleeve is next to impossible!

Andrew (on the right) and Dean working on getting one of the bushings and sleeves out:


Andrew is here through Wednesday night, and then heads back to what looks like 8"-10" of snow on the ground, and -6 low on Friday


PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #388, 11-12-2014 02:47 PM
      Hi, John! Great work on the build! Any progress with the legal proceeding?

JohnWPB MSG #389, 11-14-2014 01:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PatrickTRoof:

Hi, John! Great work on the build! Any progress with the legal proceeding?


I am still working to settle this out of court with MAACO, but have just about given up with the route that it is going. I am ready to go down and file the paperwork and have the owner and manager served and start the whole process

It was a very, VERY busy weekend here! Too much so to even post much! A few months ago I had gotten a killer deal online to fly Andrew down from Minneapolis. (Can you say under $200!) He agreed to come down and help get the entire front of my car updated. In exchange a free trip to Florida (78 degrees instead of 30 ) including meals, room and board. The schedule was pretty tight as he was here from Saturday morning thru Wednesday night.

It was made worse by the fact that I ordered all the parts needed ahead of time, and in the process they gave me the wrong lower control arm bushings. That cost us a half of days lost work. I went back, upset of course and they re-ordered new ones, but would not be here till 3Pm the following day. at 3:00 PM, when we got there, they were WRONG AGAIN! They actually came out of state, so I could not even drive a few hours to go get them, so that cost us yet another day! Other than that, things went fairly well.

I was able to purchase a parts car for $400. I needed the gauge cluster, as the circuit board on my cluster was so bad the traces were all loose and shorting out. I also needed the ECM, and the throttle body, as the spring on mine was shot. When I got those and a few other little parts, I would call a local scrapper that will come pick the car up and pay $400 for it. Basically breaking even.


The previous owner had a shop remove the valve covers and replaced the manifold gaskets, and some other upper engine work. When he picked up the car, and was driving it home, about 5 miles away from the shop, the engine started making a horrible noise, and he turned around and drove the car back to the shop. When they removed the oil pan to investigate, there was sand in the oil. He seemed to think it got in there when they were working on the car and it ruined the main bearing. The shop would never own up to it, and the car has sat since that day with a cover over it in his yard. Very bad for the previous owner, however it was a major break for me! It basically means that all of the parts installed on the car, have under 20 miles on them! This was easily verified with the mileage on the original invoices (I have all of the receipts for the work done on the car, dates and mileage) Not to mention what looks like zero wear on the brake pads, and the overall condition of the parts, even though it has been sitting outside covered for a few years.

HERE is where my luck had changed for the better for once!

The previous owner had all of work done to the car at the same time the engine was worked on. The invoice I have here shows $2,042.96 in labor for the below work

- Manifold gaskets replaced
- Grand Am Front brakes ($344.95)
- Cross Drilled Rotors ($75.00)
- Rear Rotors ($84.95 x2)
- Left Rear Caliper ($109.95)
- Right Rear Caliper ($79.95)
- Front and Rear Carbomet Pads For Vented Kit ($66.95)
- Stainless Steel Brake Lines ($104.95)
- Heavy Duty Front Sway bar installed ($159)
- Rear Sway Bar ($159.95)
- K&N High Flow Air Filter ($29.95)

That comes out to a whopping $1,291.55 worth of upgrades for a $400 car, that I will be paid back $300 ~ $400 when they come haul it away for me!
Now to some pictures. A few days before Andrew got here, I was touching up areas on the front of the car. I removed the cowl screen, and sanded and painted to protect it from rusting:



After the masking was removed:


One of the small things the donor car had, that mine did not, a jack. It was in fairly bad shape, typical rust and peeling/faded sticker. After some sanding, painting, and one of my reproduction stickers, not too bad!


Installing the S-10 brake booster was FAR easier than I thought it would be. Using a small sledge hammer, it was fairly easy to "persuade" the inner fender to accommodate the new much larger booster. Start to finish, probably an hour job.


Here are the Grand AM brake calipers, Brackets all painted up and ready to install. Stainless Steel brake lines and the new front Sway Bar also in the picture. I did not get a chance to paint the Sway bar.


Andrew installing the Spindle and putting everything back together:


After we bolted everything back up, and went to install the Grand AM brake calipers. It was then we realized the rotor was rubbing and a tiny bit needed to be ground off of the caliper bracket.
The rotor was rubbing:


After putting everything back together, and bleeding the brakes we took it for a test drive. There is still air in the system, and we did not have time to go back and bleed it again, as he had to get to the airport in just a few hours.

All in all it was a great few days, and got a LOT accomplished, all with Andrews help. One thing I HATE about taking the pictures, is the fact that I am always behind the camera, and it looks like I did nothing LOL! Grant it, Andrew did a LOT more work that I did, but trust me, I was right in there as well!
,

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-15-2014).]

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #390, 11-14-2014 03:07 PM
      It's okay John...we don't need to see your mug! Just admit that Andrew did all the work! LOL. Just kidding bud. Glad she is getting t the reassembly stage. I want to see that girl on the road!

Vernon8360 MSG #391, 11-14-2014 10:51 PM
      I'd like to see it in Frazee. I sent an e-mail to your friends at MAACO the other day, to betsy.mcdonald@maaco.com, an address Daniel found and had received a response. Just a follow up question about what had they done to correct this appalling situation. My question bounced back as undeliverable; the mail box was full. Maybe Betsy is on vacation?? In Palm Beach?? Or not.

JohnWPB MSG #392, 11-17-2014 10:34 PM
      Ok, I have some news that is probably going to stir up some comments for sure...... here goes:

I am taking my car back to Maaco to have it repainted. (Catch your breath, I'll wait.... )

Ok, I know it sounds crazy, and it could possibly be. This will the the 3rd time for them to paint my car. Now to explain a little.

First, I have spoken with an attorney, and it will cost around $10,000 to $15,000 to hire an attorney to take on my case. This is just the initial fee's (retainer), and not taking the case to fruition. Attorneys do not do this type of lawsuit on a contingency bases, that is pretty much for wrongful injury cases. So that money would come 100% out of pocket, and I simply do not have $15,000 laying around to hand to a lawyer. The total fee's for an attorney would be $25,000 and up for a case that went to trial. In that trial I am looking to get around $10,000 in damages. As you can see this makes no sense what so ever. Spend potentially $30,000 to get $10,000 to $15,000 in a settlement? Nope.....

Secondly, I can take them to small claims court, and have filled out all of the paperwork already. The most I can get in the state of Florida through small claims court is $5,000. To have the car prepped and re-painted correctly would cost FAR more that that.

So, this is where I arrived at allowing them to repaint the car.

I met with the owner of the shop in his office for a little over an hour today, and we went over everything. From the way he spoke, and telling me of a few emails he has received from corporate, I think they are breathing down his neck so to speak. It is obvious that corporate is absolutely watching to see how this turns out. In the meeting, we had a very nice conversation, and covered everything pertaining to prep such as having the windshield removed, all markers, molding, mirrors and much more. We agreed to have them have paperwork drawn up that I would have them sign detailing each and every thing to be done, and paperwork drawn up that I would sign as well. In that paperwork will be the fully detailed list of what will be done to the car, step by step. They agreed that I should again have full access to stop in at any time while they are working on the car to inspect their work and progress. I in turn agreed to change my Google review to a positive one, pull down the YouTube video, and not "bad mouth" their shop in the future. This is all based on if the car comes out as they have detailed to me when it is finished.

The car will then, from the day I get it back, have the full 5 year warranty. They asked for me to drop the car off on December 1st and give them 1.5 weeks, with a hard and absolute time of 2 weeks to have the car complete and ready for me to pick up.

They have agreed to sand the car completely down to the gel coat where applicable, and to the composite material also where applicable, and repaint the car with a show car quality paint job. He said after the car is painted, they would wet sand, and finish it with a full 4 coats of their highest quality clear. When that cures, I am to return to have the car cut & buffed.

I still have recourse, as if this time it is not done as planned, I still have legal recourse. I will not sign anything taking that right away from me.

I have a friend on the forum CaptnDean that lives near me that is coming over to go over the car with me, and details of what to have done and how. He is also going to have access to the car and monitor the work and progress while it is as the shop. I consider him to be a qualified Fiero Expert. He has collected, bought, sold, repaired, and stripped far more Fieros than I have probably ever seen in person!

This decision I have thought long and hard on, and have deemed to be the best course of action after weighing all the options. Please take that into consideration if you are thinking on trying to change my mind when you post

Also keep in mind, I have not wanted to make any money in court on this, or see someone lose their business even. I still just want what I have wanted all along, the paint job that I paid for, done correctly. Nothing more. If they can do this, then I will be happy.



johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #393, 11-17-2014 10:58 PM
      Fingers crossed...we all make mistakes. Hopefully they have learned from theirs and truly want to right a wrong. I would take out your "important items" such as your Mr Mikes or anything else which could get overspray on them. By the way, I am not mad about you giving them a shot. It is a good thing to let them try to right it!!!

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 11-17-2014).]

JohnWPB MSG #394, 11-17-2014 11:23 PM
      I agree Johnnny..... it just makes me a tiny bit more apprehensive when this is their 3rd chance LOL! We did have a very good, calm discussion, and they do seem to have a clear plan and priority for the car this time. They have had pressure from corporate, and now know just how many people have been watching to see the outcome of this. (Forum, Facebook, Word of mouth, Review sites) At one point the manager pointed out to the owner something about if I wanted it done the way I was saying it would cost them a lot and something about tons of labor hours. The owner looked right at him and said "I Don't care, that is how it is going to be done". That put me at rest a little, as it seemed quite genuine

I KNOW the owner wants this nightmare to go away just as bad as I do. And the way to do that is for them to dot it right, and I thing he really gets that now, and is exactly what he appears to be willing to do.

As for the interior...... I am actually going to wrap / tape / cover EVERYTHING in the interior. I do not want to have to do things a 3rd time! I just got the instrument cluster from a parts car and finally have working gauges again. On top of that I have installed the Fiero Store Speaker Door Panels. So yea, I will be taking extreme care to protect the interior this time. Talking to Dean, his advice was to just go ahead and remove the rocker panels and give them to them to put on the tree and paint. This way the door should never be open for any of the painting. I will have the sunroof out, as I need to remove the tracks. I will fashion something to fit from the inside, and mask off well to seal it 100%.

I am just not looking forward to taking the car apart a third time all the body moldings, mirrors, quarter windows, markers, parking lights, reflectors, sunroof tracks, GT emblem, tail lights, headlight doors, the GT quarter window frames, cowl, spoiler, (Black plastic behind the quarter windows, whatever that is called ) I have done this twice already, and put it all back twice...... argh.....


olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #395, 11-18-2014 08:25 AM
      Take a day and strip the interior out of the car, clear down to the bare metal!
Seats, carpet, headliner, dash, door panels - EVERYTHING!

Good luck, third time is the charm!


TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #396, 11-18-2014 10:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Take a day and strip the interior out of the car, clear down to the bare metal!
Seats, carpet, headliner, dash, door panels - EVERYTHING!

Good luck, third time is the charm!



John....I would 2nd olejoedad's statement above.
Coming from someone who can relate to your situation as you already know.
Best of Luck and may the car gods be with your Fiero this time around!



2.5 MSG #397, 11-18-2014 01:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

this is their 3rd chance LOL! .....


Make sure it is all on paper and signed by them and yourself.
I would want to record the whole job, probly not possible tho.


Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #398, 11-18-2014 02:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

... I in turn agreed to change my Google review to a positive one, pull down the YouTube video, and not "bad mouth" their shop in the future. ..


That will work for one person only, you. This will not do anything to the past and all that other people have seen here. We got an amazing story to tell even if Cliff decides to remove this thread. Still good luck to you. Seems the "manager" maybe your biggest problem there. I would watch him very closely as he is not agreeing with his boss and may not have his values. Employees like that will undermine his boss/company any time they can.


davylong86 MSG #399, 11-18-2014 03:24 PM
      Good luck John, It would be great to see a good ending to all your hard work and frustration. I have to agree about the shop manger not being on the same page as the owner on course of action to make this car what you wanted the first time. Keep in eye on him for sure! I guess the fact you have access to the shop at all times should keep him in check. Hope to see another beautiful Fiero in the end.

[This message has been edited by davylong86 (edited 11-18-2014).]

Vernon8360 MSG #400, 11-18-2014 05:36 PM
      Lots of good advice and now that the owner is involved I would expect better results. How often does the owner visit his own shop? Maybe get his cell phone number and during the two weeks that shop has your car, make a joint visit or three to check on progress and quality in addition to the other drop ins you're going to make.

JohnWPB MSG #401, 11-18-2014 06:18 PM
      This page is MINE!

 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

We got an amazing story to tell even if Cliff decides to remove this thread.


I can see no reason for Cliff to even remotely think it necessary to remove this thread. It is simply a work log for detailing any and all work, good or bad, done to my car.



TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #402, 11-18-2014 08:45 PM
      John....go look at Rob Amida's thread

JohnWPB MSG #403, 11-18-2014 09:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TXOPIE:

John....go look at Rob Amida's thread



That's not much to go on.... the dash thread?, 355 bumper thread?, door panel thread?, and his countless other threads.......

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-18-2014).]

Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #404, 11-19-2014 09:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

This page is MINE!


I can see no reason for Cliff to even remotely think it necessary to remove this thread. It is simply a work log for detailing any and all work, good or bad, done to my car.


Was not saying he would. This is the most free forum by far of all I visit so I know he wouldn't. Would have been only by request by you since all the bad MAACO story will be here forever for good or bad. Glad that 98% of it is a great reference work log as you said.


olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #405, 11-19-2014 10:53 AM
      Information damaging to MAACO can be removed by the OP via the edit function......


Strip the interior of your car prior to giving them their third chance!


JohnWPB MSG #406, 11-19-2014 02:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Information damaging to MAACO can be removed by the OP via the edit function......


Strip the interior of your car prior to giving them their third chance!



I have thought about that, and would not like to "remove" it for say, as many of the posts refer to it, and even quote things I have said. If things turn out well this time with the car, I will probably go back and "redact" what I have said hehe. I will make notes in each post linking directly to a new post stating how the problem was resolved and such.

Yea, I think everyone is right, I need to get everything out of the car.... fun fun.... I just now finally have it about 90% done on the interior. On the other hand, I know it needs to be done to take it back up there....




JohnWPB MSG #407, 12-04-2014 12:06 AM
      Well, my car is back in the paint shop again as of Monday morning. We went over all of the paperwork as to what is to be done to the car to correct everything item by item, and then we both signed the paperwork. I printed 2 copies of everything that we then signed, so we both have originals.

I was at work when CaptnDean stopped by the storage yard where I have the parts car, he pulled the fast back clip off by himself. That was totally unexpected! Mine had a crack above the tail lights, as well as a crack over the right quarter window, so this was perfect! I did the routine 2-3 hours of removing the 30 year old caked on 3M tape from around the quarter window openings. I have done that twice now, and never want to do it again! I then gave it a good wash down, and will get it to Maaco, and they are going to sand, prep and paint the clip separately.



Actually, Maaco said whatever parts I could provide OFF of the car, he would be grateful, as it would be easier for them to paint the individual pieces and ensure they are done right. I was happy to oblige! Dean & I took off the rocker panels, rear bumper, side scoops, deck-lid and hood. I also removed all side moldings, marker lights, headlight doors, cowl, gas cap surround, tail lights, Fiero Fiberglass's side scoops, emblems, and sun roof tracks.

Many special thanks to Dean for really, REALLY helping me out with my car. I could not have done, or known how to do half the stuff without his help!


olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #408, 12-04-2014 01:00 AM
      Capt. Dean is a class act all the way.



tshark MSG #409, 12-04-2014 05:40 PM
      Glad to see progress is being made.

Dragon (dragon@spacecoastfieros.com) MSG #410, 12-04-2014 11:26 PM
      Dean is good people



JohnWPB MSG #411, 12-12-2014 04:48 PM
      I took the replacement fastback clip to Maaco today. I do not have access to a standard pick-up truck....... but......... there is always another way to do something when you need to!



They have most of the parts ready for paint, the hood, trunk, rocker panels ect. They have started to work on the rest of the car, and it looks really good so far. I will just be relieved when I get the car back, and I can put it back together one final time.


wayneman (wdinflorida@hotmail.com) MSG #412, 12-12-2014 05:04 PM
      Tell them you want it color sanded

JohnWPB MSG #413, 12-12-2014 05:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by wayneman:

Tell them you want it color sanded


After the paint cures, I am to bring it back, and yes, they have agreed to color sand it




Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #414, 12-15-2014 02:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I am taking my car back to Maaco to have it repainted.

They asked for me to drop the car off on December 1st and give them 1.5 weeks, with a hard and absolute time of 2 weeks to have the car complete and ready for me to pick up.


Today is December 15th.

I'm a little apprehensive about asking, but... What's the word?


JohnWPB MSG #415, 12-15-2014 05:08 PM
      I held them up over a week getting the rear clip to them. So I actually was the one that put them behind a little bit.

I stopped by today, and they car is pretty much sanded down and ready for a final coat of primer. They have already sanded the car all the way down, and did the "mist primer" to sand and look for imperfections. The deck-lid is also ready for primer. The hood was being worked on, as well as the rear clip when I stopped by today.

They actually started prepping the existing clip before I brought the replacement one to them. This was taken last week, since then the side scoops have been removed. They have some "Speciality body man" that is going to come in in the next couple of days to remove the rear clip. The mirrors also still need to come off.


He said the main body (doors, roof and front fenders are all that's still on the space frame) could be sprayed this upcoming Friday.

Personally, I would rather they take a little extra time, and I will let that slide. I far prefer that than them rushing just to get it done. What I will not allow is for it to be pushed aside and delayed like before. As long as I see progress on it when I stop by each time, I am happy

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-15-2014).]

jmbishop (jmbishop05@aol.com) MSG #416, 12-18-2014 10:21 AM
      I hope this paint job goes well and I'm happy to see they are working with you.

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #417, 12-18-2014 02:03 PM
     

John I really don't think this is the way the Pontiac designers meant for that roof to be installed...


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #418, 12-18-2014 09:21 PM
      Glad they are willing to work with you on this and make it right!

We are praying that things go smooth and the car comes out better than you expect. It would be nice for them to go above and beyond considering all the epic failures they delivered.



JohnWPB MSG #419, 12-26-2014 05:25 PM
      Stopped by Maaco today, and they honestly have not done much in the past week, which is kinda understandable with Christmas and all. It is pretty much all prepped, primered and sanded, and are telling me that it could be done by Friday.

At this point, I am more concerned that they take the time to do it right, and not rush it just to get it done. I have been stopping in frequently, and so far that seems to be the case.

Anyhow, I have been slowly purchasing all the electronics for the car over the past year. A new alarm system with remote start, new head unit, the windows 8 Slate for the CarPC software, a new amplifier and the speaker door panels from the Fiero Store.

As for the stereo system, I am not looking to rattle my license plate or my teeth, just a nice clean sound in the car with a decent amount of bass at a reasonable price. I think I found something that fits all of those criteria.

A slim 10" sub-woofer with very good reviews on Amazon for $115. This is the best one that I have found for a decent price, and good reviews. There are a few slim subwoofers in this size category, but the reviews on most of them are terrible!

Here is the one I went with:



Totally coincidentally, it is black and blue as is the rest of the interior of my Fiero. (It is a matching blue to my Mr. Mike's seats "electric blue" I might add!). This is a nice bonus, but NOT something I considered while reviewing different ones. I am concerned about reliability and sound far more than the looks.

I am going to put it behind the passenger seat on the firewall. The dimensions for it on Amazon's site are incorrect, as they are the dimensions of the box that it ships in. The actual dimensions are 12 1/2" high 14 1/2" wide and 2 3/4" deep.

It is probably going to be a while before I get all of this hooked up, but I will post a review of the sub woofer when I do get it installed and working, as it seems like a nice fit for the Fiero's limited space.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-26-2014).]

rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #420, 12-26-2014 07:24 PM
      You have exactly 90 days to get this completed. Ha ha

InfiniteFiero (collin.gaddes@gmail.com) MSG #421, 12-27-2014 10:03 AM
      I actually picked up that exact same sub a few weeks ago. I have not put it in the car yet, but I tested it on a stereo in the house and was pleasantly suprised with the sound. I plan on putting it in my car in the next few days. I wish you the best of luck with yours!

JohnWPB MSG #422, 12-27-2014 12:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by InfiniteFiero:

I actually picked up that exact same sub a few weeks ago. I have not put it in the car yet, but I tested it on a stereo in the house and was pleasantly suprised with the sound. I plan on putting it in my car in the next few days. I wish you the best of luck with yours!



Great! It is always good to hear someone post positively on something you bought, that you don't know that much about I was thinking if it was not enough, I could put one behind each seat. I would then need to find another spot to mount the amp though.....


JohnWPB MSG #423, 01-09-2015 01:07 AM
      A few weeks ago I got a compressor, and posted a thread asking for help choosing a paint gun, and got a lot of great tips and recommendations.

Well, I painted my first parts yesterday, the engine vents for my Fiero. I used a black Valspar paint made for tractors, and sprayed it with this gun. I have read TONS of reviews on that paint, and all of them are good. It dries with a nice hard finish (Mix in hardener before using). Without the hardener, it will still eventually be a nice hard paint, but it can take over a month to fully cure! I used the mixture of paint, hardener and thinner that is recommended on this page.

Anyhow, I think these came out AMAZING considering I have never used a paint gun before. I did a lot of spraying with colored water over the past week testing and becoming familiar with all of the settings on the gun, fan pattern, pressure and paint to air mixture.



On another note, I stopped in at Maaco today, and they have the main car painted. They also had the undersides of the decklid and trunk painted, and are going to do the other side along with other parts for the car in the next day or so. They say they want to keep the car another week after it is painted, as they want it to cure so they can color sand and buff it out. I am glad they are doing this, as there was quite a bit of orange peel in the paint when I looked at it today. They said they put 3 thick/wet coats of clear on, to give plenty room to cut-n-buff, and still leave a couple coats of clear for depth.


Here are a couple pictures from today's visit:
(Note: It was a drizzly gray day here today, and the paint does not look so good in this light, as it reflects the gray color of the sky. It REALLY shines in the sun, and looks a deep midnight blue metallic at night.)



[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-19-2015).]

JohnWPB MSG #424, 01-19-2015 06:17 PM
      While waiting to get the car back, I have been practicing with the new compressor and paint gun. I have been painting a lot of small parts to put the car back together with. The rear deck lid hinges and cross springs, hood hinges, nut, bolts, interior pieces ect. They are coming out really good so far. I am using Valspar's Enamel Tractor Paint. It has very high ratings for finish and endurance. None of the parts in the photo have been clear coated, that is just the black paint alone.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-19-2015).]

tshark MSG #425, 01-19-2015 06:40 PM
      John, the car is looking good. I'm glad you got things sorted out.

I thought the body panels were removed for painting. I must've misunderstood.


JohnWPB MSG #426, 01-19-2015 07:33 PM
      It was almost a complete panel off paint job, but not quite.

Painted off the car were the Hood, decklid, rear bumper, front bumper, rear clip, headlight doors, rocker panels, and JimmyS side scoops

Left on the car were the front fenders, door skins and the roof.


JohnWPB MSG #427, 01-28-2015 12:14 AM
      Ok, I got the car back from Maaco today! WooHoo! Now I can start the tedious process of yet again reassembling it.... side scoops, rockers, sun roof tracks, moldings, markers, lights, hood and trunk hinges, hood and trunk, the cross springs for the decklid (Boy is THAT going to be fun!), gaskets, seals bumpers..... fun fun fun!

Anyhow, some of the main body has been color sanded already. They asked me to put the car back together, and bring it back, so they can then do the bumpers and other parts on the car. The rear bumper is very flexible, and almost impossible to lock down well to color sand and buff it out off of the car. The spoiler has been color sanded and buffed, and it looks like glass!

They burnt through an edge on the fastback clip while color sanding, and completely sanded the entire clip back down, and repainted and cleared just yesterday. So that also has not been color sanded, as it needs to cure for a good weeks first.

It was getting late, yea, not really THAT late, just the fact that it starts getting dark at around 5:00PM here now, so I will post a couple pictures tomorrow.


TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #428, 01-28-2015 08:44 AM
      Glad to hear things are working out...can't wait to see the car completed and back together!

2.5 MSG #429, 01-29-2015 08:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Ok, I got the car back from Maaco today! WooHoo! Now I can start the tedious process of yet again reassembling it.... side scoops, rockers, sun roof tracks, moldings, markers, lights, hood and trunk hinges, hood and trunk, the cross springs for the decklid (Boy is THAT going to be fun!), gaskets, seals bumpers..... fun fun fun!

.


Pretty exciting


2.5 MSG #430, 01-29-2015 08:57 AM
      That sub needs an external amp? I wonder if there are any "powered" subs that small?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-29-2015).]

JohnWPB MSG #431, 01-29-2015 09:02 AM
      It is a powered Sub. It can be hooked up wither way, to an amp using RCA cables, or with speaker wire directly from the head unit. Follow my link in the post above about the amp for more information.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-29-2015).]

2.5 MSG #432, 01-29-2015 10:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

It is a powered Sub. It can be hooked up wither way, to an amp using RCA cables, or with speaker wire directly from the head unit. Follow my link in the post above about the amp for more information.



I thought so but then when you said this it threw me off:

 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I was thinking if it was not enough, I could put one behind each seat. I would then need to find another spot to mount the amp though.....




JohnWPB MSG #433, 01-29-2015 02:10 PM
      Ahhh I see what you mean! What I meant to convey is I am putting my amp behind one seat, and the sub behind the other. If I go with two subs, I would need to find another place for the amp, so I could put a sub behind each seat.



Danyel MSG #434, 01-29-2015 08:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
It was getting late, yea, not really THAT late, just the fact that it starts getting dark at around 5:00PM here now, so I will post a couple pictures tomorrow.

HUUMMM arent you a couple of days off the TOMORROW word !!!!! COME ON get cracking and post those pics !!!!



GTGeff MSG #435, 01-29-2015 09:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Danyel:

HUUMMM arent you a couple of days off the TOMORROW word !!!!! COME ON get cracking and post those pics !!!!




EXACTLY!


JohnWPB MSG #436, 01-30-2015 12:38 AM
      Sorry, been working, and it gets dark really early here. (I HATE this time change! ! ! ! ! !) There is not too much to see yet, as the car is all apart.

In the mean time, here is a photo of my guest room that has been taken over by car parts till this weekend. In there are the rockers, hood, trunk, spoiler and engine grates.




CaptnDean will be coming over this weekend and helping me put her back together. When it is together, I have to take it back to Maaco, where they want to color sand parts that have not been done yet, and re-check everything.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-30-2015).]

2.5 MSG #437, 01-30-2015 10:24 AM
      Is there any concern over setting a recently painted item down on something, even fabric? The only car I had painted was painted panels on so I guess I dont know.

JohnWPB MSG #438, 02-01-2015 12:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Is there any concern over setting a recently painted item down on something, even fabric? The only car I had painted was painted panels on so I guess I dont know.


Not that I am aware of.... the parts were painted a week ago and then went into the oven. They then sat there for almost 2 weeks before I brought them home. That should be enough time to be hard enough to rest on fabric. At least I hope so! I do not see any ill effects when we brought the hood and deck lid out to install today.

Not too much progress today thanks to the Fiero store..... I ordered the rivets to install the rockers on Sunday night. I paid the extra shipping for 2-3 day. So my thought is, ship Monday travel Tuesday and Wednesday, and arrive on Thursday. Nothing on Thursday, Nothing on Friday, and nothing again today (Saturday).

Anyhow, CaptnDean came over and helped me a lot today. We were able to get the hood and the decklid on. I know that does not sound like a lot, but what a ROYAL pain it was to do the hinges / springs for the read deck lid! The tension was not the problem, it was the fact that we learned, after pulling out the Service Manual, the hinges had to be taken apart. The security torkspit screw has to be removed after the hinge is attached to the car. This way it can be rotated around, and lined up correctly.

Anyhow, here are a couple pictures.....

This is where the car is now, still pretty disassembled inside and out:


Here is Dean holding the hinge in place and getting ready to put it in:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-01-2015).]

Vernon8360 MSG #439, 02-01-2015 11:20 AM
      Looking good; step by step toward completion. Is it too early to ask about how Maaco did? Did they finally live up to their promises?

2.5 MSG #440, 02-04-2015 10:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
Not that I am aware of.... the parts were painted a week ago and then went into the oven. They then sat there for almost 2 weeks before I brought them home.


Oh you are good then, mine wasnt baked, and I actually drove it to Frazee less than week after it was painted. I was probably nuts.


JohnWPB MSG #441, 02-04-2015 03:17 PM
      Edit To Add: Yep, page is mine

 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Oh you are good then, mine wasnt baked, and I actually drove it to Frazee less than week after it was painted. I was probably nuts.


Ahhhh! Thats why it looked so good! I had no idea you had JUST had it painted. Just so happens I took a good picture of you driving it

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-04-2015).]

2.5 MSG #442, 02-04-2015 05:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Edit To Add: Yep, page is mine

Ahhhh! Thats why it looked so good! I had no idea you had JUST had it painted. Just so happens I took a good picture of you driving it


Thanks
Actually that is at least year old there. The first painted year (2011)I didnt have the Formula Decal or rocker extension.

Crazy the wheels are in exact matching position in that pic.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-05-2015).]

JohnWPB MSG #443, 03-23-2015 01:07 PM
      Well, it has been a crunch trying to find the gremlin that has done an excellent job of hiding himself in my car! Thanks to many on the forum, and especially here locally, Dean and Lou, I think we got it! What a NIGHTMARE THAT WAS!

So, hopefully this was the LAST time that I will snap another picture like this.

Headed North bound on I-95 a couple weeks ago:





TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #444, 03-23-2015 01:49 PM
      John...glad to see her all put back together...sorry it is on the back of a flatbed...but I have been there B4!


JohnWPB MSG #445, 04-22-2015 03:00 PM
      Update to catch up for the past 3-4 weeks:

Thursday, March 26th, the day I was leaving for Daytona, the car refused to start that morning. Lou was kind enough to come over, and we spent an hour or so diagnosing, as I was getting no fuel pressure with the brand new AC Delco pump installed a few days earlier. It turned out to be a bad ECM. The old fuel pump, that caused a fuse to blow, had taxed the relay circuitry on the ECM, and it finally just gave out. Putting a new ECM in the car, it started up and ran great. I drove through and the car made it to Daytona PERFECTLY!

Friday March 27th, I got up EARLY and we drove to the Old Spanish Sugarmill for breakfast.
Here she sits, dead center while parked at the Sugarmill:
(WOW! I had to REALLY reduce this panorama to fit it here on PFF and it digitized something terrible!, the original is gorgeous!)

Throughout the day we went to 2 state parks, and a lot of scenic cruising. I put around 150 miles on the car on Friday.

Saturday morning, March28th, the day of the show, the car refused to start. With everyone from the show, a few came over to diagnose. 3 mechanics and a few others could not find the problem. It had fuel pressure and spark, but just refused to start. I hitched a ride over to the show.

My nephew drove down from his Marine base in South Carolina where he is stationed to hang out with me at the car show. I was SO dissapointed the car was acting up, as I SOOOooo wanted to be able to drive him around the New Smyrna NASCAR track that night

Saturday afternoon, I came back to the hotel, tapped the key and it started and ran perfectly! WooHoo! I would get to take Kevin around the track after all! I drove the car around the New Smyrna NASCAR track with my nephew riding shotgun. I hammered on the car pretty hard, It was AWESOME! The track is small with short straight away's. I could only get the car up to 80MPH or so before going into the turns. I did take the turns at like 60MPH though The car ran and drove perfectly to, around, and back from the track, to dinner, and eventually back to the hotel.
Here she sits on display waiting to take to the track:


Sunday morning, March 29th, the car again refused to start to go across the street to the show. Tried everything, again, had fuel pressure and spark. That afternoon, it started again, with just a tap of the key. I did notice the slightest miss the engine had before heading for the 4 hour drive back home. By the time I got the car home, I was running on 3 cylinders. I can pull the INJ BNK 2 fuse out with the car running, and nothing at all changes. I pull INJ BNK 1 and of course it dies. I swap the fuses, and still bank 2 will not work. More trouble shooting to do.....

Here is a video my nephew shot while driving around the track. the first couple laps are kinda slow and boring, it picks up though
Now for a little drinking game. You have to drink a shot for every time I say "Awesome" in the video.

(NOTE: I have a dust shield that I hardly ever hear rub. It only rubs when making a really tight turn quickly. Something I just dealt with, as I said, it does not happen ofter. In this video it just SINGS 1/2 of the time with the endless hard cornering! Needless to say, that is on my list to fix ASAP now!)

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-22-2015).]

PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #446, 04-22-2015 03:19 PM
      John, it occured to me that we checked for fuel pressure but never checked for injector pulse! Anyway, sounds like another bad wire.

2.5 MSG #447, 04-22-2015 05:01 PM
      Nice pics. Must have been fun on the track!

JohnWPB MSG #448, 04-22-2015 08:19 PM
      It was a blast! Not for some maybe, but I have never driven on a track, and certainly never dod 60 MPH through turns before. Here is another favorite picture. It is a screen capture from a video, so not the greatest quality





PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #449, 04-22-2015 08:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

It was a blast! Not for some maybe, but I have never driven on a track, and certainly never dod 60 MPH through turns before. Here is another favorite picture. It is a screen capture from a video, so not the greatest quality




That is just beautiful.


JohnWPB MSG #450, 04-23-2015 09:10 PM
      First off, many, MANY thanks to everyone who has helped to diagnose this gremlin infested and possessed car.

Sad to day, As for now this build is on an indefinite / permanent hold.

This car has thrown problem after problem after problem at me, over and over and over, and I have done my best to over come them.

I paid $350 for the car when I bought it, and another $300 for the engine. To Date I have just over $11,000 into it, and it still does not run. I just hit my last straw today. The problem with it not starting in Daytona, (Problem 1) has still eluded myself and everyone else. Today I took the car over to Lou's and we did some testing. I barely got there as it felt as if I was running on 3 cylinders. We pulled the injector plugs, and all injectors are receiving pulses.

We loosened the distributor, and attempted to time it a bit, and rotating a full quarter turn and hardly any change in the sound of it running. Lou explained that is probably a loose timing chain, or worn gears. (Problem 2) If the chain was tight, and new gears, he says just a small adjustment of a couple degrees makes a significant change in the timing.

Third, pulling the plugs out of cylinders 1,3 & 5 (Rear facing). Cylinder One appeared normal. Plugs 3 & 5 appeared to have water on them. 90% chance of a blown head gasket. (Problem 3)

At this point, I do not have the time nor the resources to do a complete upper engine & timing chain cover / gear stuff. I can work my way around the small stuff, but this is just over the top for my abilities.

I will be putting the car under a cover indefinitely until I decide to sell it, part it out, or the rare chance of putting another engine in it. This was my daily driver, and thus have to purchase another car that is reliable, AKA not a Fiero

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-23-2015).]

tshark MSG #451, 04-23-2015 09:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
This was my daily driver, and thus have to purchase another car that is reliable, AKA not a Fiero


Lucky you. Mine doesn't have enough seats to be my DD. My wife has more miles in it than I do.

Is this the Maaco special? What did you drive while the car was there, apart?

Will you still have a Fiero? Perhaps an IMSA?


JohnWPB MSG #452, 04-23-2015 10:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:


Lucky you. Mine doesn't have enough seats to be my DD. My wife has more miles in it than I do.

Is this the Maaco special? What did you drive while the car was there, apart?

Will you still have a Fiero? Perhaps an IMSA?


I had a Kia sportage that I sold when the car was done at Maaco. LOL!

Not sure about a Fiero yet.... gonna think long and hard before I make any rash decissions. IMSA hahah! nah, that was just a joke with MrFred.



PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #453, 04-23-2015 10:30 PM
      This is sad news indeed. Sorry to hear this, John. I do hope you stay in the Fiero game though. Look for a nice turnkey specimen.

Danyel MSG #454, 04-23-2015 10:57 PM
      John...... I personally feel you are doing the right thing by stepping back and putting a cover on it. I did the same with mine a couple of yars ago but at the same time putting money aside (saved from not repairing the damn thing ) after 7 months and 3 grand saved I untarped it stuck a rebuilt performance V8 and here I am now. I know how frustrated you can be .... tides will change and time will help ya ..... till then keep in touch my friend dont sell or part it out you will definately regret it

regards my american friend
Danyel



Monkeyman MSG #455, 04-24-2015 02:44 AM
      John --- I don't know jack about motors but are you sure the plug wires are in the right order? I know I've read here of others who mistakenly plugged wire 2 into plug 6 and wire 4 into plug 1 (or whatever). I guess, it runs but not very well.

tshark MSG #456, 04-24-2015 08:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Monkeyman:

John --- I don't know jack about motors but are you sure the plug wires are in the right order? I know I've read here of others who mistakenly plugged wire 2 into plug 6 and wire 4 into plug 1 (or whatever). I guess, it runs but not very well.


This wouldn't get water on the plugs, or allow the car to run great the rest of the time.

My SE frustrated me, and sat for almost a year. Dang vented radiator cap.


Vernon8360 MSG #457, 04-24-2015 06:00 PM
      John, my fellow Hog Father, I agree totally with Danyel; cover it, ignore it, save and continue research. Do not sell or part it out. Don't do anything, don't make any decisions in your present state of mind. You have a fine looking car and you have put a great deal of effort into it. Take your time. Perspective, direction and attitude will slowly become clearer. And remember, you owe me a drink the next time we meet in Frazee, in July 2016.

Danyel MSG #458, 04-24-2015 08:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Vernon8360:

..... remember, you owe me a drink the next time we meet in Frazee, in July 2016.


Me too John..


tshark MSG #459, 04-25-2015 12:43 AM
      Where are the keys?

Carcenomy MSG #460, 04-25-2015 02:00 AM
      Argh man that's a pretty crap deal. I'm with everyone else - put the car away and let some time, money and clarity fill the picture for a while. Attack it again when you feel a bit more encouragement - I hang around here just FOR the encouragement to see mine through to either the scrapheap or repair, it does help to talk to like-minded folk.

Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #461, 04-25-2015 07:42 AM
      As far as a good daily driver: I would consider the Pontiac Vibe GT, especially if you can find a manual one. I know its the same as a Toyota Matrix but I like the style and you can't beat the reliability.

tshark MSG #462, 04-25-2015 09:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

As far as a good daily driver: I would consider the Pontiac Vibe GT, especially if you can find a manual one. I know its the same as a Toyota Matrix but I like the style and you can't beat the reliability.


I had a Vibe. You are right. It IS just like the Matrix. It's cheap across the board. The Fiero looks good compared to the Vibe/Matrix. Just like the Matrix, the Vibe's interior flakes, sags, and otherwise falls apart. The fuse block died. When I opened it, it actually had Toyota stamped on it. The coolant tubes had issues, and were crimped. The engine had to be replaced 7 times for manufacturing defects. The tranny slipped. The brake arm pivot broke. Everything leaked. I don't remember all the other problems. Admittedly, I had a brand new 2003. Sold after 1 year. Yes, it's a typical Toyota.

A lady at my work has one. It's the newer, more bloated version. Same problems. A guy at my kids' school has one. Same issues.

On the positive side, I got to drive an Impala while the Vibe was in the shop. The Vibe had about 12 miles on it when purchased, but over 14000 when sold. I put over 36,000 miles on the Impala.

To make sure I NEVER AGAIN buy junk cars, I buy RWD vehicles with 6 or more cylinders. No more rebranded rejects for me. If I wanted a toy, I'd go to the toy store. No more Kia, Hyundai, Toy/lexus, Daewoo, Mazda, Nissan/Infinity, or Honda/Acura. I've owned them all at one time or another. I'm done. Safe and reliable for me means look for quality, which these brands apparently don't have. For cheap junk, by all means.


redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #463, 04-25-2015 02:38 PM
      Hey John...

So sorry to hear all the issues with your beast. I'm not sure if you remember all the intermitant starting issues I had with the indy. Mine also came with a battery drain. I checked all the obvious issues.... ignition switch replaced, 2 starters, new beefed and extra grounds, new ecm, starter blanket, countless batteries, coil replaced.... still every now and again it would not start.

So once I went thru and checked the c 500 I saw my issue. One the c500 was full of gunk and dirt wasp nests. I took everything apart cleaned and repacked with dielectric grease. Reassembled and moved on. The previous owner had removed all fusible links & wired in a new c500. He had an electrical fire on the battery side of things. Tons of red wire replacement every where. His butt connected repairs were intermittently making contact and releasing. There was corrosion under the sheath of every wire with a butt connector.

So I redid very connector with solder and covered the join in dielectric grease then had shrink wrap on top. I went from the 84 wiring configuration and converted to the 85 and up style with the remote power block junction versus everything running to the starter. All power wires were bumped up a size. New fusible links added.... these had to go in with butt connectors, but we're properly crimped and shrink wrapped with dielectric grease. The alternator was upgraded amperage with 8 Guage running to the junction block and battery. The power & ground lines were also bumped to 2 guage if I remember right. I looked online and learned about proper alternator power routing to and from battery and to the distribution block. I opted change a few factory taps off the alternator sense line to the distribution block instead. The sense line needs to be clean of draws and a true read of what the distribution block sees. So it can adapt to the vehicles needs.

Amazingly on the other side of this slow going project.... the car was fixed. No drain no intermitant issues... it was a saint after that. So this could very well be a crap electrical line. Just take some time and go slow a bit at a time... you might just accidently find it... lol.



Csjag (csmustang0007@gmail.com) MSG #464, 04-25-2015 03:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:


I had a Vibe. You are right. It IS just like the Matrix. It's cheap across the board. The Fiero looks good compared to the Vibe/Matrix. Just like the Matrix, the Vibe's interior flakes, sags, and otherwise falls apart. The fuse block died. When I opened it, it actually had Toyota stamped on it. The coolant tubes had issues, and were crimped. The engine had to be replaced 7 times for manufacturing defects. The tranny slipped. The brake arm pivot broke. Everything leaked. I don't remember all the other problems. Admittedly, I had a brand new 2003. Sold after 1 year. Yes, it's a typical Toyota.

A lady at my work has one. It's the newer, more bloated version. Same problems. A guy at my kids' school has one. Same issues.

On the positive side, I got to drive an Impala while the Vibe was in the shop. The Vibe had about 12 miles on it when purchased, but over 14000 when sold. I put over 36,000 miles on the Impala.

To make sure I NEVER AGAIN buy junk cars, I buy RWD vehicles with 6 or more cylinders. No more rebranded rejects for me. If I wanted a toy, I'd go to the toy store. No more Kia, Hyundai, Toy/lexus, Daewoo, Mazda, Nissan/Infinity, or Honda/Acura. I've owned them all at one time or another. I'm done. Safe and reliable for me means look for quality, which these brands apparently don't have. For cheap junk, by all means.


Why don't you tell us how you really feel, lol. I defer to your experience since you owned one.


Danyel MSG #465, 04-25-2015 09:19 PM
      Our DD is a 2009 Pontiac Vibe .... we are at 60K miles and had NO issues what so ever. This car can hold alot of stuff .... we went on a trip 4000+ to Frazee Mn with it and it was great...best new car we ever bought ,,,, besides the Fiero of course



Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #466, 04-26-2015 11:37 AM
      I agree with rest at this point it would be good to take a long rest of the car. Just do something else gratifying and feel good. After a while then you start thinking back about the car and start getting the itch. Then you come back recharged with a fresh mind, ideas and new commitment to work on it. Protect it with a good cover so it doesn't deteriorate, put a trickle charger, etc. so when you come back you don't have new cosmetic issues. You started with a $600 car and have taken it very far. You are almost there. If that means a new motor or rebuilt then so be it. If after so many things you haven't give up then why then do it now? Take that break. Good luck!

Vernon8360 MSG #467, 04-27-2015 11:02 AM
      Now that's much better. I, for one, would like to thank Cliff for cleaning up the mess so the rest of us can get back to talking about Fieros and such.

Danyel MSG #468, 04-27-2015 12:54 PM
     



2.5 MSG #469, 04-27-2015 02:23 PM
      Taking a break is good, and you'll have time to plan for a 3800

jim94 (jcmusco@comcast.net) MSG #470, 09-12-2015 04:19 PM
      The fiero does push your buttons some time we do own old cars and stuff does break. My last car was a 2003 Toyota matrix xr with trd sway bars. Handled just like the fiero if you ask me and I have pushed it's limit's too. 70,000 miles and it never broke.good luck with your car John.

JohnWPB MSG #471, 01-01-2016 08:22 PM
      Happy New Year Everyone!

Small update to keep this thread out of the archives:

I covered the car back in April of last year, and have not touched it since. I have decided to do a 3800 swap on it, as I will not put another penny into that engine in the hopes that it will eventually run someday. With as much time, effort, money and such put into this car, I decided not to abandon it all.

I am actively seeking a 3800 and parts to complete it. I have a potential engine and harness in Alabama, but am waiting to hear back from the person. Correspondence was good at the beginning, and I have not heard from them in a month in return to my multiple emails. It is a decent engine, and complete harness for an Automatic with A/C, so I hope it goes through. If not, I will find another engine here somewhere.



Dragon (dragon@spacecoastfieros.com) MSG #472, 01-02-2016 11:01 PM
      Good to see you at it again

Hopefully you find a reasonable 3800 for the car



Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #473, 01-02-2016 11:57 PM
      I see this build as running somewhat parallel to my own. Same style, same goals, same(ish) color. Get on it. The world needs more blue Fieros.

2.5 MSG #474, 01-04-2016 08:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

With as much time, effort, money and such put into this car, I decided not to abandon it all.

I am actively seeking a 3800 and parts ..




JohnWPB MSG #475, 01-09-2016 03:48 PM
      I had started another thread titled: Wanting to do a swap, I need a 3800SC engine, parts, and ANY advice you can offer up! It's purpose was to source an engine, and get advice on doing my swap. That thread was successful, as it looks like I have secured an engine in Montgomery, Alabama from IROCTAFIERO. I just need to go get it, or have it shipped, it is 50/50 right now on which one I am gonna do.


What it includes:
  • 2004 Grand Prix Series 3 S/C engine (Roughly 80,000 Miles on it)
  • 4T65E(HD) from same car, still attached to engine
  • 4T65E to Fiero Transmission mount
  • 1 SLP 3.5 pulley and pulley tool (adds roughly an additional 15-20 HP)
  • 1 FieroFlyer wiring harness Built for an 1987 GT automatic with A/C (Mine is an 86 with A/C and no changes are needed that I know of at this point)
  • ECM programmed and tuned by FieroFlyer
  • 1 Throttle Body from a Series II
  • 1 Throttle Body adapter



What I still need: (Engine and mounting parts at least)
  • Coil Packs
  • Module
  • Engine Mounts

  • Correct Axels
    Here is the engine:



    Here is the transmission mount:


    I will do my best to detail every thing that I have to do do get the engine in my car up to the point is is complete in this thread. It is going to get a few weeks before I get the engine, and probably slow progress to begin with as I gather all the remaining parts, and plan everything out.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-09-2016).]

  • Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #476, 01-10-2016 12:28 AM
          Did you decide to do the swap yourself, or are you still planning on having a professional do it?

    redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #477, 01-10-2016 12:29 AM
          Glad to see.ou decided to keep the beast alive. Look forward to seeing it transform.

    JohnWPB MSG #478, 01-10-2016 01:36 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:

    Did you decide to do the swap yourself, or are you still planning on having a professional do it?


    I honestly have no plans as of yet hahah! I do know a few local mechanics that do side work, as I know I can not do it all myself. I am however going to get the engine to start with, tear things off, replace gaskets, clean it up, paint it ect. I will be doing this on the weekends, and take my time. Next will be removing the 2.8, (with help) thus freeing up the cradle to start build on. From that point, not too sure yet. I am just going to take it as it goes.


     
    quote
    Originally posted by redraif:

    Glad to see.ou decided to keep the beast alive. Look forward to seeing it transform.


    Yea, I do hope to get it running, and actually be able to drive it! I may even try to make a GA meeting when the bugs are worked out.



    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #479, 01-10-2016 09:43 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    I honestly have no plans as of yet hahah! I do know a few local mechanics that do side work, as I know I can not do it all myself. I am however going to get the engine to start with, tear things off, replace gaskets, clean it up, paint it ect. I will be doing this on the weekends, and take my time. Next will be removing the 2.8, (with help) thus freeing up the cradle to start build on. From that point, not too sure yet. I am just going to take it as it goes.


    I'm kinda in the same boat-- I have no idea what I'm doing and would get in DEEP over my head, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. My plan is to pull the cradle from my 88 parts car and build my swap on there while the 87 is still intact. That way not only do I have an engine swap I need to deal with, but ALSO a cradle swap!

    Please post as detailed of a thread as you can, including roadblocks and lessons learned. Most build threads I have read tend to gloss over "simple" stuff that guys with experience take for granted. It's that simple stuff that a novice like me might not think of until it's too late and derails the build for a long time.


    JohnWPB MSG #480, 01-10-2016 12:13 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:
    Most build threads I have read tend to gloss over "simple" stuff that guys with experience take for granted. It's that simple stuff that a novice like me might not think of until it's too late and derails the build for a long time.


    Hey! I know EXACTLY what you mean. I just came across a GREAT thread yesterday that has a lot of great information. A few things I did not know such as T'ing the heater core lines behind the alternator, best transmission lines to use and a few other neat tips. I read the thread from top to bottom last night, copied some stuff into my swap notes, and saved a few pictures.




    JohnWPB MSG #481, 01-12-2016 03:10 PM
          I think I may have found an engine..... Included with the engine are the north-star throttle body and the adapter plate, the FieroFlyer 3800 Fiero wiring harness and computer. It is programmed already to work with the Automatic transmission and this A/C equipped engine. (Still in the original box it was shipped to him in)

    The seller thinks he has the rest of the 3800 mounts for the Fiero, he just has to look around for them.

    Looks like my 3800 journey could officially start here.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-02-2016).]

    GTGeff MSG #482, 01-12-2016 06:21 PM
         
    John,

    I talked with PR on Saturday night. He may have mounts you need. ( He advised he has some inventory before he would need to make a major investment on raw materials for another batch.)

    Jeff


    JohnWPB MSG #483, 01-12-2016 10:45 PM
          Thanks Jeff, I will keep Shawn in mind then. I am gonna wait a little bit though, as they may be included with my engine purchase price if he is able to find them.

    JohnWPB MSG #484, 01-13-2016 11:29 PM
          I have a question I have not seen in any of the 3800 threads that I have been reading over the past couple months, and I have read a LOT of them! How does one go about moving the coil packs from the "Front of the engine" in a front wheel drive setup (Near the alternator), to where they are on the rearward facing side of the engine in the Fiero. (The back left close to the intake) Is it just a wiring harness "bundle" that needs extended? If so, are these for sale, or is it up to making one from scratch?




    JohnWPB MSG #485, 01-30-2016 05:34 PM
          WARNING: Future Red X's possible. I have always TRIED to use PIP, but it fails miserably 90% of the time. I used PostImage.org for these images.


    Ok, I have sealed the deal, and rented a U-Haul trailer to head to Alabama in a couple weeks to get the engine. It's a 3800 Series III with around 80,000 miles on it. It comes with a bunch of goodies to get me started

    Here is the donor engine, just begging to be cleaned up and painted!


    As the Series III is throttle by wire, a Northstar Throttle body can be used with an adapter plate. I am glad to say they are both included:






    Lastly, for now, and most importantly..... The FieroFlyer wiring harness for the 4T65HD transmission, with A/C. Included is the ECM that has already been programmed for this engines setup.


    He also has a single mount for the 4T65HD transmission to the cradle:


    The major parts I still will need are the motor mounts, Alternator relocation bracket, and the axles. There will be a lot more of course, but that's the major stuff.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-30-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #486, 01-30-2016 05:54 PM
          You have the most important parts. Motor mounts are easy to get. Axles you can build them. Why you want to relocate the alternator? Looks? Do you have the exhaust? If not that is the most complicated if you want a good one.

    JohnWPB MSG #487, 01-30-2016 11:13 PM
          The exhaust........ I totally forgot to even mention it! That is one of THE biggest hurdles remaining. I have yet to figure that part out completely. I do know I want it to be quiet. I have heard 3800 exhausts that have a nice deep rumble on a couple Fieros, and it sounds great! Then you get in the car at 70 MPH and you can not hear yourself think, let alone be able to talk on the phone (Bluetooth through the stereo), or enjoy the radio. I want it as quiet as possible without sacrificing too much HP to do so. A nice compromise of the two.




    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #488, 01-31-2016 09:59 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    The exhaust........ I totally forgot to even mention it! That is one of THE biggest hurdles remaining. I have yet to figure that part out completely. I do know I want it to be quiet. I have heard 3800 exhausts that have a nice deep rumble on a couple Fieros, and it sounds great! Then you get in the car at 70 MPH and you can not hear yourself think, let alone be able to talk on the phone (Bluetooth through the stereo), or enjoy the radio. I want it as quiet as possible without sacrificing too much HP to do so. A nice compromise of the two.



    Take a ride with Brygida on my old GT.


    JohnWPB MSG #489, 02-07-2016 12:35 AM
          Ok, one week from today I Drive the 12 hours to Alabama to get the engine. The U-Haul trailer is reserved and waiting. In preparation, bought a new engine stand today. I went a little overkill and bought the 1,000 pound stand. I like the fact that the legs fold up to conserve space.





    Vernon8360 MSG #490, 02-08-2016 03:40 PM
          You know you need to take that thing to MAACO to be painted so it matches the car.



    JohnWPB MSG #491, 02-08-2016 06:54 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Vernon8360:

    You know you need to take that thing to MAACO to be painted so it matches the car.



    Art, it has been a pleasure knowing you......... We're done.




    JohnWPB MSG #492, 02-14-2016 02:08 PM
          After getting up at 6am working, and then leaving after work Friday night at 6pm, drove straight through to Montgomery, Alabama and picked the engine up at 7am. I left Montgomery at 8am and drove to Atlanta to meet up with the Georgia Fiero Club at a diner for lunch at 1:30 pm. After lunch made it somewhere south of Atlanta before crashing.... make that collapsing at around 6pm. After 24 hours on the road, straight through, other than food and gas stops, I was just beyond exhausted!

    Got up at 8 am and am now just South of Daytona Beach. Only 4 or 5 hours to go!

    Look what followed me home

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-30-2016).]

    Neils88 (nellerin@dal.ca) MSG #493, 02-14-2016 07:48 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:
    ... After lunch made it somewhere south of Atlanta before crashing....


    ...you made my heart skip a beat...


    JohnWPB MSG #494, 02-14-2016 09:36 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Neils88:
    ...you made my heart skip a beat...


    Yikes! I didn't realize that, till I just re-read my post now! Poor choice of words!

    I Just got back to my house about a half hour ago. What a LONG trip to go get an engine! 50 total hours, and a total mileage of 1578. The engine is still on the trailer, and is going to stay right there until tomorrow..... at this point, I do not care that the U-Haul trailer was supposed to be back this evening!

    I am quite happy with everything now that I have it back home. For $900 I got the 3800SC Series III with around 60,000 miles on it. The northstar throttle body and the adapter plate, FieroFlyer wiring harness, and the ECM he programmed for this engine with A/C and Auto trans, Transmission mount, Smaller pulley and the pulley removal tool to change it out on the Super Charger, and some miscellaneous new sensors.

    I can't wait to start stripping it down, replacing all the gaskets, water pump and other hardware, then cleaning, and painting it all up. I already bought a pint of Vista Blue, the same color my car was painted, for the valve covers and the super charger.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-28-2016).]

    tshark MSG #495, 02-15-2016 08:57 AM
          What, not going to MAACO?

    JohnWPB MSG #496, 02-15-2016 07:32 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by tshark:

    What, not going to MAACO?


    No.......

    I had to go buy a 2 Ton engine hoist to get the damn engine off the trailer. Wow that thing is heavy with the transmission on it. I was able to get it under my carport, and even managed to get the transmission removed. For me this was a pretty big accomplishment, as I am NOT a mechanic, and have never tried to work on an engine like this before. Honestly, I could not figure it out completely on my own. I had all the bolts (or so I though) removed, and it still would not come loose. I Youtube'd "Removing a 3800 transmission" and learned of a hidden bolt that you need to remove the power steering pump to get to. Then, you need to assemble every extension you can find in your collection of tools, and reach way back in to get it out. Now I need to figure out where to get the bolts that are needed to mount the engine to the engine stand. The ones from the transmission are far too short, something I did not know until I just tried today.

    Here is the engine on the base of the engine stand to roll it around for now:
    (Photos to document what it looked like before I did anything to it)








    I will get some more pictures during the daylight tomorrow of where it all stands now. I plan to document everything I can as reference for anyone else, with NO experience doing something like myself.

    I just realized, my car is watching everything I do very closely

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-27-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #497, 02-16-2016 06:49 PM
          Well I got the engine on the engine stand today. What a chore! The way the legs are "V" shaped on both the engine hoist, and on the stand make it near impossible to get the stand where it needs to be to connect it to the engine. I had to put one of the legs for the engine stand over the top of the hoist to line it up, I pushed the stand back as I slowly lowered the hoist to get it back on solid ground.

    I removed most of the wiring harness today, and gave it it's first go at de-greasing. Tomorrow I plan to continue cleaning the engine, both for ease of working on (No spending an hour to de-grease myself after just touching the thing) as well as prepping for paint. I figure I have to 100% de-grease and clean it anyway, I may as well do it first, and save being covered in grease up to my elbows from working on it.




    Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #498, 02-16-2016 08:38 PM
          Looking good!

    JohnWPB MSG #499, 02-22-2016 06:33 PM
          This post is a combination of posts from another thread where I asked for advice on items. I copied it here to archive in my build thread

    The mount for the coil packs, on the 3800 needs to be cut for the decklid to close properly. You need to retain the lower portion as it houses a tensioner as well as an idler pulley.

    I took the engine mount / pulley assembly off:


    I then went to 2 different machine shops. Neither said they had the equipment to cut it (I am thinking to myself you ARE a machine shop, correct?!) . The one shop has been in business since 1982 and has a long waiting list of months to get some stuff done there. Kinda crazy they can not cut a cast iron motor mount. Any suggestions on how to get this done?

    Also the bearing in the idler pulley is SHOT, so it's good to dissemble everything and check it all out before putting it all back together.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-12-2016).]

    ignorant prodigy (ignorantprodigy@aol.com) MSG #500, 02-22-2016 06:50 PM
          I used a metal cutting blade on my sawzall and cut the bracket, no machine shop necessary lol

    JohnWPB MSG #501, 02-23-2016 04:48 PM
          I called around today, and found one place that would do it. He explained how, being cast iron, he would go through quite a bit of material / blades, and the time involved, would be around $150 ! ! ! !

    Then I remembered this advice:

     
    quote
    Originally posted by ignorant prodigy:
    I used a metal cutting blade on my sawzall and cut the bracket, no machine shop necessary lol


    Spoon said the same thing in another thread. I stopped by Home Depot today, and picked up a pack of 5 blades for metal for $10. It took all of about 5 to 10 minutes, and I only used a single blade out of the pack.

    About 1/2 way through:



    Finished!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-23-2016).]

    Danyel MSG #502, 02-23-2016 07:41 PM
          Nothing better than using "Good old comon sense and HOME tools



    JohnWPB MSG #503, 02-24-2016 06:55 PM
          Got a little bit more done today. I removed the fuel rail, and then the Supercharger. I can get that prepped and ready for paint sometime here soon.




    I also have been researching gasket kits on eBay, but I am not sure which one to get, as they all need the VIN#. Does anyone know what the "Forth Digit" is for the VIN on this engine? I have no way of finding this out, and a lot of parts searches as for this info. This engine is a 3.8L Supercharged, that came out of a 2004 Grand Prix GTP.


    tshark MSG #504, 02-24-2016 07:42 PM
          I thought the VIN was on the engine block.

    Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #505, 02-24-2016 08:35 PM
          I thought the engine code was the 8th digit of the VIN.

    Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #506, 02-24-2016 08:55 PM
          If the engine is a Series II, it's an L67 and the VIN code should be "1".
    If it's a Series III, it's an L32, and the VIN code should be "4".
    http://www.grandprixforums....II-engine-L67-vs-L32

    I don't know that much about 3800s. There are plenty of much more knowledgeable people here.

    [This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-24-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #507, 02-25-2016 04:51 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Raydar:

    If the engine is a Series II, it's an L67 and the VIN code should be "1".
    If it's a Series III, it's an L32, and the VIN code should be "4".
    http://www.grandprixforums....II-engine-L67-vs-L32


    LOL! This proves I have done a LOT of research I read that very thread that you linked to from top to bottom a few weeks ago for unrelated reasons. There is no mention in that thread about a VIN# though......

    Thanks for the info, the parts place was asking if it was a "1" or a "4". So now I know it is a "4".



    JohnWPB MSG #508, 02-25-2016 04:54 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by tshark:
    I thought the VIN was on the engine block.


    Me Too! I scoured the block, and found all sorts of codes, and such, no VIN number. Then I did a search and came across THIS THREAD where everyone agrees that the VIN number is not on the block

    Here is one message from that thread

     
    quote
    Originally posted by darkhorizon:
    No VIN will be on the engine anywhere... Sorry.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-25-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #509, 02-27-2016 12:15 AM
          I have been spending an hour or two each day when I get off work tinkering on the engine if you have not figured that out already This is all new to me. I am an IT guy, computers, office work ect. That was till I bought the Fiero. If you would have told me 5 years ago, I would drive 1,300 miles to go get a used engine, drag it home, buy an engine stand to put it on, and start tearing it apart..... well I would have told you to set the crack pipe down, and step away! LOL

    Today, I was able to get the water pump off, and degrease the engine some more. It is taking multiple times, and a small brush at times to get into all the areas so the paint will stick when I am ready to shoot it. I also dissembled the super charger, ready for new PCV valve, bearings and other parts.

    Here is today's progress:


    While I was cleaning the supercharger, I noticed a bit of scoring inside, and shot a quick video. Is this just normal wear and tear, or something I need to be concerned about?

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-27-2016).]

    tshark MSG #510, 02-27-2016 11:27 AM
          Ok. I read that thread. How could anyone prove an engine was or wasn't original, then? How could an engine be proven stolen or not? How could anyone have a ”number-matching” engine and transmission? Why would anyone pull the original engine and tranny so that the originals could later be put back so that the numbers matched?

    I'm pretty sure I've seen the VIN in the block, but that was older engines...'70s-'80s.


    JohnWPB MSG #511, 02-27-2016 03:10 PM
          I also have ALWAYS thought VIN numbers were on the engine block. However, I can say, that I have searched this block from top to bottom, and there definitely is not VIN number on it. I have the engine on a stand, and I can see every square inch of the block. This sux, as the engine was pulled out of a 2004 GTP that has been crushed, so no way to get that number to verify mileage ect.

    JohnWPB MSG #512, 02-29-2016 11:54 PM
          Ok, got the super charger all apart, sensors and such removed, degreased, wire brushed, sanded, degreased and thoroughly rinsed, and FINALLY coated in self etching primer.





    Tomorrow I hope to tackle the valve coves after work..... These are the only pieces (Valve covers & Supercharger) that are going to be the Vista Blue body color. I want to have them all prepped and spray them all at once, verses cleaning the paint gun multiple times

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-01-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #513, 03-01-2016 06:53 PM
          After watching TONS of Youtube videos, doing some research on paint types and such, It has ALL paid off! I painted the Super Charger main body and the snout today after work. I did a fine mist of the base coat, and let that sit for a few minutes. I then did the full coat, and allowed that to flash over for 15 minutes. I then did the same with the clear coat, misting, then a full coat after 15 minutes. Then a second, and final clear coat 15 minutes after that.

    I am VERY happy with the results!

    Here are the main body, as well as the snout after the final clear coat:


    Here is a closeup of part of the snout, it came out like GLASS!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-03-2016).]

    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #514, 03-01-2016 08:09 PM
          Wow, very nice. I've very interested to see how these turn out. Our two cars are VERY similar colors, so I want to see how the blue parts look in a blue car.

    JohnWPB MSG #515, 03-01-2016 08:43 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:
    I want to see how the blue parts look in a blue car.


    Honestly, so do I LOL! I am hoping it is not TOO much. I want to do the engine in silver and the brackets / pulleys / braces, parts in black. I was hoping to tie everything together with just the valve covers and Supercharger done in the body color. I don't THINK it's going to be too much, but I have nothing prove otherwise till I can actually see it finished.

    This is my very first time painting in 3 stages, etching primer, base coat, clear coat. I just went out to the shed to have a look at it again, and wanted to bring inside just so I can look at it more LOL!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-01-2016).]

    redraif (redraif@yahoo.com) MSG #516, 03-01-2016 08:44 PM
          Awesome

    Slammed (slammmeds10@gmail.com) MSG #517, 03-01-2016 09:04 PM
          That is a gorgeous color! It's going to look awesome

    JohnWPB MSG #518, 03-01-2016 10:08 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by redraif:
    Awesome


     
    quote
    Originally posted by Slammed:
    That is a gorgeous color! It's going to look awesome


    Thank you! Yea, I spent a LONG time trying to find THE blue that I wanted to paint my Fiero. All my friends got sick of me pointing out every blue car on the highway, roads, parking lots, ect. This went on for a few months hahaha..... I ended up going to a CarMax close to me and looking at TONS of cars. The color I settled with is off of a 2012 Mustang GT, "Vista Blue".


    Vernon8360 MSG #519, 03-02-2016 09:10 AM
          That's really nice. Did you use a special kind of brush?

    lateFormula MSG #520, 03-02-2016 12:54 PM
          John it's your car, your call, but if I were going to invest the time, money and resources to partially dismantle an engine to clean it up and paint it to match the car I would have spent some time smoothing out the parts before priming and painting. In this picture I would have sanded off all of the ejector marks:


    olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #521, 03-02-2016 02:20 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:




    To add some information....

    1999 Buick Ultra...

    The last seven of the VIN on a 3800 S2 is on the pad the outboard starter bolt threads into.

    [This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 03-02-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #522, 03-02-2016 05:40 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by lateFormula:
    I would have sanded off all of the ejector marks:


    You are 100% correct, and if I had it to do over I would have. I honestly never thought of it before hand. Mark that down as a tip to future swappers that are also detail oriented.

    EDIT: Gee... thanks alot! Now I keep thinking about the blemishes on the SC all afternoon now.....

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-02-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #523, 03-02-2016 05:41 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by olejoedad:
    1999 Buick Ultra...

    The last seven of the VIN on a 3800 S2 is on the pad the outboard starter bolt threads into.


    This is a Series III engine out of a 2004 Grand Prix GTP. Any tips and hints for this one?




    JohnWPB MSG #524, 03-02-2016 06:07 PM
          Today's project was to dissemble the throttle body, and get the parts ready for paint. I took a few pictures, and put everything pertaining to it in a labeled zip-lock, but I am still hoping that I can put it back together when I am done! The arm on the cable connector, and the springs and all can go in many positions.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-02-2016).]

    olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #525, 03-02-2016 06:35 PM
          I would check the same area. I don't have a Series III block sitting here....

    JohnWPB MSG #526, 03-03-2016 11:04 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Vernon8360:

    That's really nice. Did you use a special kind of brush?


    Yes, it is a special brush. The only place that carries it are Pet Smart Outlet centers (Not the stand alone stores). Presently, rumor has it that Old Navy is currently in litigation to sell them in the near future. The brush has a metric adapter wide angle magnetic conversion plate (MAWAMCP) on the rear of the brush that allows for a maximum of -10 PSI. Thus, It is ill advised to even attempt to use this particular brush at, above, or even below seal level.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-12-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #527, 03-07-2016 09:24 PM
          I found a local Mom and Pop paint supply store over the weekend, Terry's Auto Supply. I ordered the Vista Blue I am using from eBay, as I did not know of a local spot yet. Today I stopped by Terry's and purchased a quart of silver for the engine block and transmission. I also got a pint of black for all the pulleys, brackets, mounts, screws, bolts and such. Both are base coat, and need to have clear applied over them. Speaking with them at the paint shop, he says that the base then clear is far more durable than the single stage / all in one.

    Even with this quart and a half purchase, they took lots of time to go over some tips and such with me, and asked me if I needed any paint filters, stirring sticks ect, I said that I did. He went in the back, and brought out a decent size box with about 50 paint stirrers, and around 50 filters as well. I reached in and took a few sticks, and a couple filters. He looked at me and said no, the WHOLE BOX is yours to take. Wow! I now have a lifetime supply of paint sticks and filters

    Today I painted the valve covers in the Vista Blue body color. These are the last parts (Super Charger and valve covers) that will be body color. Over the coming days / weeks I will be taking off all the pulleys, brackets, mounts and such to paint black. After those are all off, painted and done, the engine block will be stripped enough to finally paint and clear it. I decided to go with base and clear, as mentioned above, for durability, but also have been told that this smooth surface will make it MUCH easier to keep the engine clean for car shows

    Here are the valve covers, I am happy with the way they turned out:
    (I am not sure if I am going to leave the filler neck the way it is, or do it in black when I get the gun loaded to do the other parts)

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-07-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #528, 03-07-2016 10:11 PM
          Just some information for people in the future doing a 3800 swap.

    I just purchased a, AC Delco fuel pump kit on eBay for $36. I read about this fuel pump in AutoMarshall's thread, (Thank you! Marshall)



    The part numbers are:

    • AC Delco Part Number: EP381
    • GM Part Number: 25163473



    This is a direct swap for the Fiero fuel pump, and no modification is needed in the Fiero tank. This pump is from vehicles such as the Silverado with a 5.7 liter engine. Thus, PLENTY of fuel flow for a 3.8


    sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #529, 03-08-2016 03:25 AM
          just to say, you just bought a Chinese fuel pump, the way to tell old Delco parts and Chinese crap is old stuff is AC-Delco new crap is ACDelco, Just FYI.
    But that is a higher PSI/flow pump anyway. BTW I might have figured out your old problem.... but an engine swap is one way to fix it, oh wait it won't really.


    JohnWPB MSG #530, 03-08-2016 06:57 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by sardonyx247:

    just to say, you just bought a Chinese fuel pump, the way to tell old Delco parts and Chinese crap is old stuff is AC-Delco new crap is ACDelco, Just FYI.
    But that is a higher PSI/flow pump anyway. BTW I might have figured out your old problem.... but an engine swap is one way to fix it, oh wait it won't really.


    Wow, having a bad day or something Just about all of the AC Delco parts are made in China now, unfortunately. Heck, a lot of the new Craftsman tools are as well now. I had a thread about the engine problems and such. A lot of people came up with good ideas, but I don't remember anyone else saying they knew what it could be, but keeping it to themselves.




    sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #531, 03-08-2016 02:23 PM
          Check your fuse box......

    JohnWPB MSG #532, 03-08-2016 03:17 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by sardonyx247:

    Check your fuse box......


    You clearly did not read the other thread where I was trying to determine what the problem was. I posted that I had checked ALL fuses and fusible links. Not just visually, but by pulling each one, and testing with a continuity tester, and inspecting the contacts in the plugs. The ignition in the column has also been replaced, so I am still very interested in knowing what you think that it could be, that this same problem will still exist, even with a completely new wiring harness, ECM and engine.

    Thinking on this more, how would a fuse cause the engine to die randomly at cruising speed, failing to start when either hot or cold at times, and then start randomly some time later, and run perfectly. All this, many, many times over.




    Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #533, 03-08-2016 03:54 PM
          John... I didn't go back to the other thread, but I think I understand.

    Unscrew the fasteners that hold the fuse box hinge, and let the whole thing drop down.
    Make sure that all of the wires are fastened securely to the back of the fuse box.
    I made some wiring changes behind mine. I want to say that some of the connectors plug in. It's probably worth the few minutes that it would take to check.


    sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #534, 03-08-2016 10:05 PM
          Sorry I didn't have time to go into it earlier, I have run across this in a few cars now, at least 3. In the fuse box the connectors that hold the fuses in had cracks in them and would cause interment problems, then I remembered your problem and I have a hunch that is what it is. If any fuse feels even the slightest bit loose look very closely at the plugs that hold it, look for cracks or discoloration. If it is discolored, it is probably cracked, it should be that nice shinny brass color. It would cause every symptom you had.


    Edit to add: Yes I did read your other thread, thus why I thought of you when I started seeing this in cars.
    One car alone had 4 cracked/broken connectors.



    JohnWPB MSG #535, 03-08-2016 11:09 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by sardonyx247:

    Sorry I didn't have time to go into it earlier, I have run across this in a few cars now, at least 3. In the fuse box the connectors that hold the fuses in had cracks in them and would cause interment problems, then I remembered your problem and I have a hunch that is what it is. If any fuse feels even the slightest bit loose look very closely at the plugs that hold it, look for cracks or discoloration. If it is discolored, it is probably cracked, it should be that nice shinny brass color. It would cause every symptom you had.


    Edit to add: Yes I did read your other thread, thus why I thought of you when I started seeing this in cars.
    One car alone had 4 cracked/broken connectors.


    Wow.... I had not heard of that until now. I will most definitely have a GOOD look at the fuse box, and check for any abnormalities.




    JohnWPB MSG #536, 03-10-2016 09:12 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by sardonyx247:

    just to say, you just bought a Chinese fuel pump, the way to tell old Delco parts and Chinese crap is old stuff is AC-Delco new crap is ACDelco,


    Just got the fuel pump today. The box says "Made in Mexico" and all the paperwork is in Spanish. It's a shame that we make so FEW things in this country now




    liv4God MSG #537, 03-13-2016 02:29 AM
          I just spent the last few hours reading this entire thread and I am so impressed with the high quality work and attention to detail you place in the work you do JohnWPB! You have a lot of awesome ideas and I'm amazed at how well you handled all of the problems along the way. Thank you for documenting your work! It has inspired some more projects for my cars, and I'm sure many others can say the same
    I was worried when you talked about giving up and am very glad to see that you are continuing! I'm looking forward to reading and seeing more of your work, good luck!!


    JohnWPB MSG #538, 03-13-2016 12:21 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by liv4God:

    I just spent the last few hours reading this entire thread and I am so impressed with the high quality work and attention to detail you place in the work you do JohnWPB! You have a lot of awesome ideas and I'm amazed at how well you handled all of the problems along the way. Thank you for documenting your work! It has inspired some more projects for my cars, and I'm sure many others can say the same
    I was worried when you talked about giving up and am very glad to see that you are continuing! I'm looking forward to reading and seeing more of your work, good luck!!


    Wow, that is a lot of reading for sure, and yes, it sure has been a bumpy road along the way. Thank you for the kind words! I certainly never intended this build thread to take going on 5 years now! One of these days, soon I hope, I will actually be able to drive and enjoy the car


    JohnWPB MSG #539, 03-13-2016 04:44 PM
          Well not an awful lot done this weekend on the engine. Took some time off, went to a nice pizza place on the beach and just relaxed for the most part.

    I did test paint a couple pulleys and the water pump to see how the gloss black comes out, as well as the shade of silver I picked for the engine. A very successful test in my opinion The gloss black laid and flowed out beautifully, and even now that it is fully dry to the touch, looks like the paint is still wet. The silver has very fine metal flake in it, and looks really nice! It is very hard to capture silver and chrome on camera, so in this case it looks far better in person.

    On a side note technology has really improved in the past few years. I remember my first iPhone, and having to apologize for the crappy photos that I took with it and posted. Here, a few years later I am using a Samsung Note 3 (3 year old phone now) and the pictures are virtually as good (in daylight) as my high end Canon DSLR camera. Every photo on the past 3-4 pages in this thread have all been taken with the Note 3.

    Anyhow, enough with the tech rant, and on to the photo's.

    Here are the three colors that will make up the entire engine compartment:



    I am using gloss black for all the pulleys, mounts, brackets and hardware. The body color blue just on the super charger and valve covers. Finally the metallic silver that will be used on the transmission, engine, and other large components (Starter, Alternator, Compressor ect).
    I used the water pump to test the color, and am happy with the results, again, it is hard to get a good photo of such a reflective color, but here is a close up that shows better than the above photo:


    Paint Information:

    Up till just recently, I have been painting everything with rattle cans. It comes out decent, but no matter how nice it looks, the paint is just to "soft" for me. I have parts that I painted a year ago, that I can press a thumbnail into, and leave a mark. It also scratches very easily. I decided to ditch the rattle cans, purchase a compressor, and learn how to really paint

    I have watched hours and hours of painting videos, learning tips, tricks, flash times, ratios, learned about temperature & humidity considerations, reviews on paint guns and compressors, paint comparisons and on and on.

    The paint that I am using is made by PPG, and the clear coat is by Advantage. I purchased 1 quart of clear, and 1 pint of activator. The clear and the activator are used in a ratio of 4:1 (4 parts clear to one part activator). This is the magic formula that gives that nice hard finish you just can't get with a rattle can. The pint's of the black and silver are "concentrated" and need to be reduced. I purchased a generic reducer, that you mix 50/50 with the paint. This way I actually get one quart each of the black and silver to spray with. Base coats, by themselves, are never glossy when they dry. The base coat also does not have to be very thick, just thick enough so the material being painted is completely blocked out, and can not be seen through the base coat.


    For spraying the paint, I am using a $15 ($12 with a 20% off coupon ) Harbor Freight "Purple Paint Gun" as it is known by on MANY forums and YouTube videos. The gun is highly rated, and thought by many to be as good as sprayers 10 times it's price.

    I am using the Harbor Freight 21 Gallon compressor, that is routinely on sale for $170. This compressor has put out plenty of air for everything that I have done so far.

    Basically, for under $200 I was able to get the compressor, paint gun and air hose. This allowed me to go from using rattle cans for everything, to using a much higher quality and more durable paint.

    If you are looking to get into painting, Google is your friend. I did a Google search for paint suppliers in my area, and was lucky to find a nice mom and pop shop, with a very knowledgeable staff. I also recommend watching tons of videos on YouTube on painting, it is amazing what you can learn on there!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-09-2016).]

    Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #540, 03-13-2016 06:48 PM
          Thanks for the painting tips. I'm still using rattle cans, but I don't have enough of a volume of work to invest in a spray setup. At least not yet.

    Your work looks very good.
    I kind of have an idea about the silver but, as you said, the pics probably don't do it justice.

    I will offer a small bit of advice...
    If you paint your alternator bracket, make sure that the places where the components touch (alternator to bracket, bracket to block, etc) have the paint ground off. There must be a good metal-to-metal contact, or the alternator body will not see a good ground. Just depending upon the bolt is really not sufficient.
    I only mention this because I remember seeing a post from someone who had chromed or powder coated his accessory brackets, and his charging system was completely whacked - until he figured out what was going on.,


    JohnWPB MSG #541, 03-13-2016 06:53 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Raydar:
    I will offer a small bit of advice...
    If you paint your alternator bracket, make sure that the places where the components touch (alternator to bracket, bracket to block, etc) have the paint ground off. There must be a good metal-to-metal contact, or the alternator body will not see a good ground.


    Thanks for the kind words, and the tip! I probably would not have thought of that when I was prepping the bracket for paint and taping it off.

    On that note, now I need to work on figuring out how to low mount the alternator, and figure out what the 4 water lines in the alternator bracket do, direction of flow and circulation wise. Seriously, who runs 2 water lines through an alternator bracket?!


    JohnWPB MSG #542, 03-17-2016 06:52 PM
          Tinkered with the engine a little more today. I had originally planned to not take the heads off, and just do everything up to that point. Well plans change

    I figure that I am this invested into this thing already, I may as well dig a little deeper and check everything. I got one of the heads off today, and am very happy to see that the cylinder walls are not scored in any way, and the pistons are even very clean, with a total lack of carbon deposits. I will take the other one off tomorrow and inspect everything on that side.


    I also decided to paint up the starter, and see how it looks in the silver metallic..... I am dying here to see the block done, so this is just to hold me over for now

    I'll let the primer dry, and shoot it, and then clear it tomorrow.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-17-2016).]

    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #543, 03-17-2016 07:33 PM
          Hmmmm...... you decided to take it down, or were coerced?

    Edit-- take those bolts you took off your heads and THROW THEM IN THE TRASH. Same for the bolts that hold the rockers on. They are TTY bolts and are not designed to be reused. Order new bolts from ZZ Performance.

    [This message has been edited by Napoleon_Tanerite (edited 03-17-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #544, 03-17-2016 09:03 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:

    Hmmmm...... you decided to take it down, or were coerced?

    Edit-- take those bolts you took off your heads and THROW THEM IN THE TRASH. Same for the bolts that hold the rockers on. They are TTY bolts and are not designed to be reused. Order new bolts from ZZ Performance.



    LOL, honestly t is not because you removed the heads from your swap...... I actually had gotten water in the cylinders with everything apart over the course of the past couple weeks. I decided I needed to get the heads off and make sure all traces of the water were gone.




    JohnWPB MSG #545, 03-18-2016 05:39 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by olejoedad:


    To add some information....
    1999 Buick Ultra...
    The last seven of the VIN on a 3800 S2 is on the pad the outboard starter bolt threads into.


    I found this when I removed the starter:
    EDIT: THIS IS NOT THE VIN NUMBER, SEE A FEW POSTS DOWN FOR THE CORRECT LOCATION OF THE VIN


    In another thread, I was asking for a VIN# from a 2004 GTP so I could try and piece the VIN together with the full VIN, and the last 8 digits from the engine block. bonaduce said he could help me out:

     
    quote
    Originally posted by bonaduce:
    pm me the last 8, i can run it through my parts computer and get you the whole thing in the morning
    dan


    I gave him the digits off the block, and it came back as an invalid VIN. Are these the numbers you were referring to on the outboard starter mount? I notice the block says it is a Series II, when I do know in fact it is a Series III engine.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-20-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #546, 03-18-2016 05:48 PM
          Not too much done today, just a couple more parts painted, the Alternator and the Starter.

    It seems simple enough to paint just 2 pieces.....Not really..... first I have to prime with self etching primer, and wait a half hour. Then mist a base coat, wait about 5 minutes, and then give a nice even base coat. Wait 15 minutes for that to flash over, and then hit it with a clear coat. Wait another 15 minutes, and hit it with the second coat of clear. Quite a bit of work and time for a couple parts at a time.

    I HOPE to get the engine block painted this weekend. If that's the case, I can then go in reverse, and start to put everything back together again.







    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #547, 03-18-2016 06:50 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Raydar:
    ..
    I will offer a small bit of advice...
    If you paint your alternator bracket, make sure that the places where the components touch (alternator to bracket, bracket to block, etc) have the paint ground off. There must be a good metal-to-metal contact, or the alternator body will not see a good ground. Just depending upon the bolt is really not sufficient.
    I only mention this because I remember seeing a post from someone who had chromed or powder coated his accessory brackets, and his charging system was completely whacked - until he figured out what was going on.,


    Ja! I was one of those. Yes you need to grind of to make good contact with block and other parts.


    JohnWPB MSG #548, 03-18-2016 07:18 PM
          I now have the lower Alternator mount, and the idler pulley taken care of. I ordered the bracket, as well as the tensioner assembly from FieroRog in his Mall Thread. His parts come HIGHLY recommended, and everyone has commented on how simple and perfectly they bolt up, and line up the first time.

    There are 2 parts, the one is the bracket to lower the alternator to where the power steering pump was, and the other to connect to the Fieros stick dog-bone, as well as a location to mount the belt tensioner.


    The Belt Tensioner is off of a 1995 Ford Taurus, part numbers are:

    • ACDELCO 38139
    • MOTORCRAFT BT42
    • DORMAN 419202
    • GATES 38139
    • DAYCO 89217



    The next step is to purchase the motor mounts, then I will pretty much have everything I need to put the engine in the car. Fierorog has those available as well, so I will be ordering again from him here soon. I will be leaving the Exhaust as the last, and very, very much dreaded last major step.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-29-2016).]

    zmcdonal MSG #549, 03-18-2016 08:05 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    I gave him the digits off the block, and it came back as an invalid VIN. Are these the numbers you were referring to on the outboard starter mount? I notice the block says it is a Series II, when I do know in fact it is a Series III engine.


    From what I understand, there is no such thing as a Series III block, mine is an 04 from a GTP and the block is marked Series II as well. The block is the same, just minor differences that made them a Series III motor.


    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #550, 03-18-2016 08:15 PM
          Biggest difference it the Gen V supercharger, the bottom end is the same AFIK

    JohnWPB MSG #551, 03-19-2016 12:18 AM
          The "VIN Number" I posted above returned as invalid. I PM"s olejoedad, and he told me I had the wrong location and number, and told me where to look. It is located on the starter mount that is right next to the flywheel.

    This is what it looks like:


    I PM"d the new number to bonaduce to see if this one can be found in his database.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-28-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #552, 03-19-2016 05:28 PM
          Ok, I have reached the end of the tear down of the engine. I am not tearing into the lower end, just the top. I have read where it is wise to leave the lower end alone, unless you have a problem. Everything seems to be in fantastic condition from everything that I have seen so far. The cylinders are clean with no score marks, there is virtually no carbon on the pistons or the valves, and the rockers all seem to be nice and tight.



    The heads look really good, and not all gunked up as I have seen in other engines. This engine really looks like it was well taken care of with oil changes and such.



    I did get water in the cylinders and oil over the past 2 weeks, even though I tried to block anything off to keep that from happening. As there was water in the oil already, I said screw it, and washed out the entire engine! I removed the heads and oil pan, and used degreaser to get into all the nooks and crannies. I thoroughly rinsed everything out, and blew out as much water as I could with the compressor. I have a fan laying on the top of the engine, blowing air down through it.

    The reasoning behind this was to get rid of any and all of the crud that collects in the corners that could be harboring dirt, sand, metal shavings and such that could get circulated when I put it all back together. Secondly, there was water in the oil already, and that would be very hard to get the water to evaporate, or drain completely when mixed with the oil.

    I do have to say, it seemed quite strange using a garden hose to clean the INSIDE of an engine! I will wait a couple hours for the fan to do its thing, and then quirt some oil in the engine to re-coat the bare metal. When she is eventually running, I will do an oil change on it after running an hour or so.



    JohnWPB MSG #553, 03-20-2016 03:27 PM
          I could not paint yesterday, due to heavy rain / high humidity. I got a chance to get the block done at least today. I just need to paint the lower intake manifold, and the heads, and I can hopefully start assembling everything. I bookmarked a gasket kit, need to get that ordered today, and find the new head bolts as well....

    Anyhow, here is the block all primed:


    Painted:


    and finally cleared:



    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #554, 03-20-2016 04:04 PM
          Why didn't you paint your oil pan?

    JohnWPB MSG #555, 03-20-2016 05:56 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:

    Why didn't you paint your oil pan?



    Are you psychic or something? The Oil Pan is on my workbench, and yes it is unpainted It is banged up pretty bad from the engine being dropped onto it. I just ordered this oil pan through Amazon and this gasket (I get free 2 day shipping with Amazon Prime).

    I am not going to paint the oil pan, as it is already powder coated black.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-20-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #556, 03-21-2016 10:27 PM
          I got a nice package in the mail today..... My lower alternator mount from Fierorog, as well as the Ford Taurus belt Tensioner from Amazon.

    Wow, the build quality on this bracket is impressive, very nice welds!


    Just one more thing off of the list of many things to purchase and do!


    Pete Matos MSG #557, 03-21-2016 10:28 PM
          Looking good man its coming together for you. Maybe I will get to see it in person at some point. Good luck with the build.

    Pete



    JohnWPB MSG #558, 03-22-2016 10:08 PM
          More painting progress this afternoon after work.... I got the heads primed, base coated, and cleared. I realize that some of this paint will probably burn off, but hopefully just around the exhaust ports. There is water running through them to help keep them cool after all One thing I learned, is the old gaskets make a perfect stencil for around the exhaust manifold mounting location


    I also was able to paint up the lower intake as well:

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-22-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #559, 03-23-2016 07:35 PM
          Ran into a bit of a snag today, two of them actually

    First, I just rolled out the transmission to get it cleaned up and prepped for paint, and just now noticed a chunk of the bell housing missing. I know there is not a tight seal between the engine and the transmission, but is this a bad enough problem to render the transmission useless? Also, what is up with the green stencil letters? Was this a factory thing, or was it marked / tagged in a salvage yard or something? The stencils are on the inside side where the engine attaches, [EDIT: The transmission is GM rebuilt] so the transmission would have to be off to paint those letters there. I was under the impression that the engine and transmission were attached and pulled connected from the donor car.

    4t65e-hd Automatic Transmission Bell Housing


    Second, a hole in the A/C compressor. Looks like another $250 down the tube

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-29-2016).]

    olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #560, 03-23-2016 11:20 PM
          No problem with the bell housing; not pretty, but not a big deal.
    Letters may be from remanufacturer of tranny, or stock ( I have not seen that before.).

    Sucks about the A/C....


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #561, 03-24-2016 11:34 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:
    ..

    Second, a hole in the A/C compressor. Looks like another $250 down the tube




    You bought that compressor? When I did mine I got the compressor and alternator from a car at U-Pick and looked a lot nicer than that one even without cleaning. Car was wrecked so it looked like not a high mileage. You should check it out once in a while. I also got the compressor end of the hose and used it to build the Fiero AC hose. There is a shop righ there after U-pick that does them. Cost me about $75 only.

    [This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 03-24-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #562, 03-24-2016 03:13 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by olejoedad:

    No problem with the bell housing; not pretty, but not a big deal.
    Letters may be from remanufacturer of tranny, or stock ( I have not seen that before.).


    Thanks Joe, Glad to hear that at least!

    I found this sticker on the transmission while pressure washing it today:


    I find it interesting there was a re-manufactured transmission in this car, as I ran the CarFax, and the car had just over 50,000 miles on it. That is pretty low mileage to have to replace a transmission right? I wish I knew at what mileage this transmission was put it, as there is no mention of it in the CarFax report.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-28-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #563, 03-25-2016 05:02 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:
    You bought that compressor? When I did mine I got the compressor and alternator from a car at U-Pick and looked a lot nicer than that one even without cleaning. Car was wrecked so it looked like not a high mileage. You should check it out once in a while. I also got the compressor end of the hose and used it to build the Fiero AC hose. There is a shop righ there after U-pick that does them. Cost me about $75 only.



    Alex, sorry, I did not see your post! I clicked the email link to view latest posts, and that was on page 14, and till just now I didn't realize it rolled over to page 15, sorry!

    That A/C compressor came on the engine. When I bought this 3800, it came with everything, all accessories (Starter, A/C, ALternator ect), 4t65e-HD transmission and so on. I have yet to even look into getting the A/C working as far as hose couplers and such.... It really sucks, as I bought a brand new new A/C compressor for my 2.8. After charging the system, it only held for a day as I have a leak in the lines somewhere. Thus, the Compressor has about 2 hours use on it, and will not fir the 3800

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-25-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #564, 03-26-2016 02:40 AM
          Just getting to walk out the door and head to the Daytona Show. Hope to see some of you there! It's just a 4 hour drive from here, so will be there in time to catch a ride over in a passenger seat of a Fiero from the Bet Western I hope




    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #565, 03-26-2016 10:43 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    Alex, sorry, I did not see your post! I clicked the email link to view latest posts, and that was on page 14, and till just now I didn't realize it rolled over to page 15, sorry!

    That A/C compressor came on the engine. When I bought this 3800, it came with everything, all accessories (Starter, A/C, ALternator ect), 4t65e-HD transmission and so on. I have yet to even look into getting the A/C working as far as hose couplers and such.... It really sucks, as I bought a brand new new A/C compressor for my 2.8. After charging the system, it only held for a day as I have a leak in the lines somewhere. Thus, the Compressor has about 2 hours use on it, and will not fir the 3800



    Mako Hose & Rubber is the place I mentioned above. It looks like the whole engine was dropped at some point and caused the trany and compressor damage. I think using the 3800sc compressor will be easier and it is a better unit. It worked so nice on my car.

    [This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 03-28-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #566, 03-27-2016 04:19 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:


    Mako Hoes & Rubber is the place I mentioned above.


    LOL! That typo is just PRICELESS! I will check them out when I get ready to get the A/C set up.

    Had a nice time at the Daytona Show yesterday! It was a much smaller turn out this year, as the show fell on Easter weekend.

    Anyhow, I was able to get a few more brackets, pulleys and such painted today. I really hate painting all the small stuff!






    Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #567, 03-27-2016 08:57 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by olejoedad:

    No problem with the bell housing; not pretty, but not a big deal.


    My take on it, as well.
    Otherwise, I'm not sure about the lettering. If the trans came out of a running car, I wouldn't worry about it. (Assuming the drivetrain was removed from a wreck.)

     
    quote

    Sucks about the A/C....


    I'm wondering if the Fiero compressor couldn't be adapted, by swapping clutches. (I have no clue if it will. Just a thought.)
    If the Fiero cmpressor is an HR6 (88 and just about all replacements for earlier compressors were HR6) it's probably worth considering.

    Edit - I missed this last page, too. Missed that the Fiero compressor is a "no go".

    [This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-27-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #568, 03-27-2016 10:52 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Raydar:
    Edit - I missed this last page, too. Missed that the Fiero compressor is a "no go".


    Glad I was not the only one. You also missed the sticker a few posts back that I found the transmission to be a rebuilt.

    The mounts are totally different on the Fiero A/C compressor -vs- the one for the 3800.


    JohnWPB MSG #569, 03-28-2016 06:45 PM
          Today's project was painting the transmission. Mission Accomplished!

    I am waiting for the complete gasket kit to get here, so I can start assembling the engine.

    I still have to tackle:
    - Exhaust
    - Coolant hoses / lines
    - Passenger side Axle
    - TONS OF LITTLE STUFF!



    JohnWPB MSG #570, 03-29-2016 08:04 PM
          the Big Brown Truck came today


    The complete gasket Kit I ordered for the L32 from Ebay ($135.00):


    I received the new head bolts I ordered the other day. ($24.00)

    I have read SO MANY threads, posts, articles and tutorials on how to assemble the passenger side axle. You need to purchase 3 separate axles, and assemble one axle from different parts of each of them. I decided to just order a completely built axle for the Passenger side today from Stephen Poe (stephen_poe at Hotmai|.com) AKA MstangsBware, (Here is his sale thread and info) and save myself a TON of aggravation. He charges $250 shipped.
    (Google Image)

    In all of my research, I think Pappy summed up the quest for a passenger side axle the best in a post on Central Florida Fieros Forum
     
    quote
    The Passenger Side Axle

    After many Beers, injured fingers, swearing and of course all that forgin GREASE We have AXLES!

    Back story: I haven't been able to locate this Mythical Male Tripot that fits BOTH the 4T65E-HD and the Manual Fiero axle. I have searched 4 Pick and Pulls - From Melbourne up to Daytona and from Cocoa across to O'town(Orlando) - Through blazing sun, scorching heat, monsoon down pours and electro-magnetic high energy plasma storms. I have dragged my body parched and dehydrated over fields of toxic rubble, broken glass and sharp bits of metal. I've been bitten, sprayed and stung by the worst tempered creatures mother nature could muster to thwart my quest. I've climbed to the peaks of Razor Edged - Jagged Metal - Mountains in search of this illusive GTP Tulip to no avail - I was beaten. So today, broken I sat on the hot garage floor in the sweltering heat, surrounded by a plethora of GM Axles spanning 25 years and 5 different body styles. I found myself weeping like a little girl, the frail remnants of my once Fierce Herculean Physique and Drive all but forgotten...


    Yep, that pretty much sums it up!


    I hope to start putting the gaskets to good work this weekend.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-28-2016).]

    tshark MSG #571, 03-29-2016 08:30 PM
          That transmission looks awesome! Good job!

    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #572, 03-29-2016 11:38 PM
          I'm about 2 weeks behind you, at least as far as paint goes. I'm waiting for the heads to be finished before I put the engine back together and paint it. Actually I'm content being just a bit behind you. That way you get to figure it all out the hard way and I get all the lessons learned!!

    JohnWPB MSG #573, 03-29-2016 11:44 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by tshark:

    That transmission looks awesome! Good job!


    Thanks.... it was a lot of spraying and scrubbing to prep it!


     
    quote
    Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:
    Actually I'm content being just a bit behind you. That way you get to figure it all out the hard way and I get all the lessons learned!!


    Hahah! After you get the engine painted, I am sure you will surge ahead, and I will get to follow along for a while

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-30-2016).]

    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #574, 03-29-2016 11:56 PM
          I don't have a transmission yet, so that will be a big slow down.

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #575, 03-30-2016 09:12 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:
    ...
    I have read SO MANY threads, posts, articles and tutorials on how to assemble the passenger side axle. You need to purchase 3 separate axles, and assemble one axle from different parts of each of them. I decided to just order a completely built axle for the Passenger side today from Stephen Poe (stephen_poe at Hotmai|.com) and save myself a TON of aggrivation. He charges $250 shipped.
    (Google Image)


    I would have done the same if available when I did mine. Between time spent, trips to auto parts and all the paper towels I used to clean the greasy mess job I probably spent the extra cost. I highly recommend this path. Now if someone would build/sell a nice exhaust then this swap could be a true bolt on.


    JohnWPB MSG #576, 03-30-2016 01:34 PM
          The exhaust system is the next major thing on my list. I have three qualifications for it. One it must look good, two, I need to keep my trunk and three, I want it as quiet as possible. Sure, a little Rumble is fine, but I don't want a really loud drone while I'm driving down the highway.

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #577, 03-30-2016 05:21 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    The exhaust system is the next major thing on my list. I have three qualifications for it. One it must look good, two, I need to keep my trunk and three, I want it as quiet as possible. Sure, a little Rumble is fine, but I don't want a really loud drone while I'm driving down the highway.





    JohnWPB MSG #578, 03-30-2016 07:39 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:



    As soon as I saw this, I picked up the phone and called Alex (He lives 5 miles from me) I wanted to know what shop he went to, as I was going to take it there and have them repeat the exhaust set up. Come to find out, him and a friend did the exhaust some time ago, over the course of a few days, angling, cutting, welding, bending, re-bending ect.

    He is getting me part number of that muffler, and with those pictures, I think I can get one of the shops around here to duplicate it. I have never welded before, and certainly do not own a welder. This is one thing I am definitely going to outsource.


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #579, 03-30-2016 09:32 PM
          Found out that somehow I overwrote over my 3800 swap log file when restoring some backup after a HD failure I had an Excel file with all parts and cost. Very valuable. But I'll find the part number.

    Pete Matos MSG #580, 03-30-2016 11:33 PM
          That Transmission paint job looks great. I hope to be doing the same thing at some point soon. I could probably help you with that exhaust once my stuff is out of storage too I need to find the local supplier of argon and whatnot. I would probably try to make it entirely from stainless tube. We are in West Palm Beach now while we are house hunting.

    Pete



    JohnWPB MSG #581, 03-31-2016 12:13 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:

    Found out that somehow I overwrote over my 3800 swap log file when restoring some backup after a HD failure


    Ouch!!!! That really sucks..... I am sorry to hear that. I am SO scared something like that will happen sometime, that I backup my stuff like that to my free space on Google Drive.

     
    quote
    Originally posted by Pete Matos:
    That Transmission paint job looks great. I hope to be doing the same thing at some point soon. I could probably help you with that exhaust once my stuff is out of storage too I need to find the local supplier of argon and whatnot. I would probably try to make it entirely from stainless tube. We are in West Palm Beach now while we are house hunting.
    Pete


    That sounds fantastic! I hope the house hunting is going well. If you need any information or help with something from a local, feel free to drop me a message on here or at my screen name here on the forum @gmail..com.




    JohnWPB MSG #582, 03-31-2016 09:11 AM
          Olejoedad just texted me another picture of an exhaust system. Very similar but it looks much easier to manufacture.
    It uses a muffler from a Camaro.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-31-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #583, 03-31-2016 09:46 AM
          Found a gem for you. Couple videos too. Look here: Magnaflow 14277 install in a 3800sc by Alex4mula

    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121048.html

    PS: Picture above is not showing.

    [This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 03-31-2016).]

    wftb (danjesso@bmts.com) MSG #584, 03-31-2016 09:53 AM
          If you go on to the website frozen boost .com they have a selection of stainless steel bends and straight pipe in all kinds of sizes . Just buy the bends you need and take it to your exhaust guy to weld up to your muffler .All mandrel bent , in thick or thin stainless steel . I got the thick steel , even though it is heavier it is much easier to weld .My exhaust is minimal so the extra weight amounted to about 4 lbs .

    olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #585, 03-31-2016 10:21 AM
          Bends are also available from Jegs and Summit at better prices.

    JohnWPB MSG #586, 03-31-2016 08:14 PM
          Very cool... I have lots of info to get going on the exhaust system now! This is a part that I knew NOTHING about or where to even begin. I ordered a couple rolls of exhaust hi-temp wrap from Amazon today.

    I also received another package in the mail today fierorog's motor and transmission mounts:


    I started assembling the engine this afternoon, so far just the heads are on. I looked all over the place to get the torque specs for the head bolts, and found like 4 different contradictory ways of doing it. I got some advice in email on how to do it. I found a diagram of the order to tighten them in, and added the instructions for anyone else needing it:



    I think the last major hurdle is going to be the water hose routing.... I will get caught up with everything else before I start to worry about that!


    Pete Matos MSG #587, 03-31-2016 09:54 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    That sounds fantastic! I hope the house hunting is going well. If you need any information or help with something from a local, feel free to drop me a message on here or at my screen name here on the forum @gmail..com.



    Thanks man we have looked at a few so far not found the right one for us but there are many for sale. We are staying at my mom's Condo here in Lake Worth right now and will be until we find our new home. I really appreciate your offer. I would just like to see your build in person some time and maybe chat fiero's. Once I get settled in I am going to try to find a decent one to build myself. This build is looking pretty good man! Peace

    Pete



    JohnWPB MSG #588, 04-01-2016 07:11 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Pete Matos:

    We are staying at my mom's Condo here in Lake Worth right now...



    SMALL World! I am actually in Lake Worth, and probably just a few minutes from you. I am close to the intersection of Haverhill Road and Lake Worth Road.


    I stopped by the GM dealership today, in hopes of getting replacement bolts for the lower intake manifold, as I somehow seemed to have lost them. After looking at an exploded view of the engine, he determined they were 12 of them, and they were 5/16 x 18 and 1 & 1/4" long. They did not have them, but could order them, and have then by next Wednesday. Cost.... $5.76 EACH! That is correct $69.12 for the dozen bolts! I thanked him, and said I needed them this weekend to put an engine together.

    I made a run to Home Depot, with my fingers crossed, and no luck... however the guy that was helping me was VERY knowledgeable about the bolts... Go Figure! He sent me to a place 20 minutes away called Florida Bolt. I explained to the guy what I needed, and he walked into the back room, and came out with a dozen grade "A" bolts in his hand. He punched at the computer and then simply said 254. I asked is that the price? He replied yes. I said $2.54 each... he then smiled and replied "No, that is your total for the 12 bolts with tax". Needless to say I was quite happy!

    Sure, I know the dealership is high, but that is just ridiculous and should be illegal! $70.00 compared to $2.50......

    Anyhow, I have a great new place to get bolts

    I got a chance to get the heads bolted and torqued down last night. Today I put the lower intake manifold and valve covers on. I got my first look at how the colors are all going to look together.



    Pete Matos MSG #589, 04-01-2016 11:12 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:
    SMALL World! I am actually in Lake Worth, and probably just a few minutes from you. I am close to the intersection of Haverhill Road and Lake Worth Road.



    Wow no kidding it is a small world. We are staying right near lake worth road LOL. I will PM you here and maybe we can get together sometime and have a drink or something....

    Pete




    JohnWPB MSG #590, 04-05-2016 09:42 PM
          Got a PM from Chuck (2002z28ssconv) and he tells me he has the A/C lines I need, Fantastic, I have not researched what all was needed, so that is a huge bonus. Chuck does custom A/C lines for the 3800 swaps, and you can find his mall thread here. He is one of the nicest and most honest vendors to ever grace these forums. I got a text from MstangsBware today saying he has the last part needed to assemble my axle, another plus! Lastly,g I finished painting most of the little parts for the engine today. Things are moving along nicely!

    I just totally dread the day I have to take the 2.8 out, and try to put this all in! It is daunting to say the least!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-28-2016).]

    Pete Matos MSG #591, 04-06-2016 10:08 AM
          Man I just read thru this entire thread last night when I got home. You really got put thru the ringer by the paint shop man jeez.... What a bunch of idiots. So pleased that it is finally looking like it is done and that you are putting the 3800 motor in there. This car looks like it will be sweet once it is up and running. Good luck with it. Hopefully I can get to see it in person at some point it looks like it is going to be really nice man.

    Pete



    JohnWPB MSG #592, 04-07-2016 11:17 PM
          I got a bit more done on assembling the engine after work today. I installed FieroRog's lower alternator bracket, and combination idler pulley/dog bone mount. The fit and alignment was perfect, and simply inserted the bolts into existing holes on the engine, was less than a 10 minute process for both brackets, with the supplied bolts!

    As a bonus, my nephew drove down from South Carolina were he is stationed in the Marines, and surprised me. He supervised while I put some of the parts on the engine. I got to go over and take pictures of his 3800 SC installed in his Impala for reference on putting my engine back together :-)

    On a side note, I made sure to remove the paint on the block, and on the mount where they touch each other....(Thanks Raydar!) Also on the alternator as well where it touches the mount in 3 places, to ensure a good solid ground at multiple points.

    I also installed the belt tensioner on the mount, and the new water pump (with a metal impeller).

    Here is where the engine stands as of now: (No Pun Intended!)


    It is finally starting to resemble an engine again, as I was so used to see it stripped down to just a block while I was cleaning, painting and ordering and waiting for parts to arrive.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-09-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #593, 04-07-2016 11:20 PM
          Double post.... Forum is acting up BAD this evening.... took me 20 minutes to keep trying to make the above post.....

    It seems PFF is still under a DOS attack

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-07-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #594, 04-08-2016 12:51 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:
    ...
    Here is where the engine stands as of now:


    It is finally starting to resemble an engine again, as I was so used to see it stripped down to just a block while I was cleaning, painting and ordering and waiting for parts to arrive.



    That is beautiful man.


    rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #595, 04-09-2016 08:09 AM
          It looks great John, but shouldn't you reverse the valve covers?

    JohnWPB MSG #596, 04-09-2016 12:13 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by rpro:

    It looks great John, but shouldn't you reverse the valve covers?


    I have gotten 4 PM's, an email and even a phone call about the Valve covers already! Wow..... Even with the low post count of comments, I guess a lot of others are watching this thread

    I am keeping the valve cover placement as shown in the photo. I will remove the extension tube, and put the cap directly onto the valve cover. I am doing this to keep the "solid blue" valve cover towards the rear of the car, as it is just about the first thing you see when you open the deck-lid. I want it to look as uncluttered as possible. Yes, it is a little tight getting to the oil cap near the firewall, but something that is definitely tolerable. When oil is required, I have an abundance of funnels that will aid in adding oil with no problem at all.

    I had one person tell me I would not be able to do it this way, that I had to have the oil cap on the "front" valve cover. Here are a few examples showing that it can be done this way

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-09-2016).]

    ignorant prodigy (ignorantprodigy@aol.com) MSG #597, 04-09-2016 01:54 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:






    want to paint mine? ~



    JohnWPB MSG #598, 04-09-2016 05:07 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by ignorant prodigy:
    want to paint mine? ~


    Sure, bring it over next weekend


    You know, it's kinda funny..... Ever since I was young and would see cars at car shows, it always mystified me how they could make an engine look so nice. Since getting My Fiero 6 years ago, it has been the same thing here on the forum. I would see all of these engines being rebuilt, and installed into cars, and just imagine what it would be like to have an engine that looked like that in my car! I know it sounds kinda crazy, but it was something that just seemed beyond a normal persons means doing something like that.

    It was not till I decided to do the swap, that I decided I would start with the rough engine, and mount it to a stand, and figure it out. I started by taking tons of pictures of the "before" state, so I could reference them when I went to put things back together. Then I slowly just started taking anything that I could unbolt, off of the engine. I intended to clean, prep, sand, paint and clear each of the parts. I had parts everywhere, and was doing some of them in blue, some in black, and the majority in silver. It was not till just a few days ago, when I started putting it back together, that I stepped back and went "WOW that looks like the engines I have seen OTHER people do!" hahaah.

    I have a long way to go, and am just taking my time and plugging away at it.

    Oh, and in my ignorance and haste, I even have a beautifully cleaned, sanded and painted and cleared power steering pulley! LOL! ! ! ! !

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-09-2016).]

    Vernon8360 MSG #599, 04-09-2016 07:48 PM
          Looking good! I'm glad you're enjoying the process and sharing it all with us.



    Pete Matos MSG #600, 04-10-2016 12:24 PM
          Motor looks great man!

    Pete



    exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #601, 04-10-2016 12:43 PM
          John your work is killer. 👍

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #602, 04-10-2016 04:49 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    .. I would see all of these engines being rebuilt, and installed into cars, and just imagine what it would be like to have an engine that looked like that in my car! I know it sounds kinda crazy, but it was something that just seemed beyond a normal persons means doing something like that...


    That is the easy part. The hard part is keeping it looking like that over time.


    JohnWPB MSG #603, 04-11-2016 06:28 PM
          Last night, I re-assembled the Throttle body, putting all the sensors, springs, butterfly and such back together. Today, after work I installed the throttle body adapter. I had to Google some pictures, as I was not sure 100% how it went. It came with a gasket, and a tube of silicone.

    The gasket goes between the adapter plate and the throttle body, and the silicone between the intake and the adapter plate.


    Next I installed the newly assembled throttle body to the adapter plate:


    I also put on the new oil pan and gasket:


    All installed and good to go:


    Now, on a last note, there is a sensor in the oil pan, that I probably for low oil indicator. The end that goes inside the pan has a piece of plastic on the end that is loose. I can not tell if it is supposed to be like that or not from examining it.

    The piece that is loose, and wobbles around is highlighted in yellow:


    Can anyone tell me if that is normal, or do I need a new sensor?

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-11-2016).]

    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #604, 04-11-2016 08:37 PM
          It is normal, but even if it was broken, don't worry about it. You are correct that it is the oil level sensor, but unless you plan on installing the DIS from a donor car, the sensor is useless to you. It would probably throw an OBD code if you were really interested, but the harness builders I have talked to say they usually don't even wire for the harness and tune the code out of the PCM.

    JohnWPB MSG #605, 04-11-2016 10:50 PM
          Good to know, and thanks for the info! It's just one less thing to have to worry about


    tshark MSG #606, 04-12-2016 08:48 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:



    What is that behind the sensor, with all the scratches?


    JohnWPB MSG #607, 04-12-2016 10:27 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by tshark:
    What is that behind the sensor, with all the scratches?


    That is the old oil pan. It was pretty dented and banged up, so I just went ahead and bought a new one to replace it. It did not appear to be hitting the cam shaft, but I did not want to take any chances.

    As a teenager, I hit something and dented up the oil pan on my mothers car. The cam shaft was hitting it, and shortly rubbed a hole in the pan and all of the oil drained out. Luckily my father was a mechanic, and ingrained in me that if the coolant light or the oil light EVER came on, to pull over safely & immediately to investigate. That life lesson pretty much saved the engine in Mom's Buick


    JohnWPB MSG #608, 04-30-2016 02:18 PM
          Life stuff has been happening (Small vacation, death in the family, over time), and I have not been working on the engine over the past few weeks.

    I did get a couple things taken care of off of the "3800 List" I received the Stainless Steel quick disconnect fuel lines from MRose (His sale thread here). Very nice!:



    I also received a message from MstangsBware / Stephen Poe, (Contact Thread / Post) and he is almost done with my passenger side axle. He says he just wants to clean it up a bit before shipping it.

    Building it all up:


    Completed and ready to ship:

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-04-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #609, 05-12-2016 11:18 PM
          An interesting development......

    I had a new neighbor move in a couple months back, and a few days ago we got to talking. He, it turns out, is a mechanic. I brought him over to show him the car, and th3 3800SC I have been building. He speaks broken English by the way.... he looks at the engine, at the car, and back at the engine.... looks at me and says it does not come from factory with this. I giggle and nod and before I can say anything, he tells me the wiring harness will not work, and will need a special one with a programmed computer. I show both to him. He says the motor mounts will not work, again, show him the new motor mounts. Then he says he does not think the axle will work on the passenger side. I show him the one that Mustangsbeware made for me. This goes on for some time, and he really seems to know his stuff.

    I tell him that I would like him to take out the old engine, and install the new one. He says he will get back to me.

    Today he stops me when I get home from work, and says he can take the ole one out, put the new one in, and finish so I just turn the key and go, $700. I say DEAL! Then, here comes the part that caught me off guard.... he says I will take the engine out minyana. Tomorrow???? He says yes. this seriously pushes up my time line! I have 95% of the parts, but am scrambling to get the last pieces. The A/C lines from Chuck in Orlando, get a new A/C compressor ordered, plugs, wires, oil filter, oil, coolant..... and tons of other stuff I am sure I am forgetting.

    We agreed, he will get the engine out, then I will have as much time as I need to get the engine completed, and the engine bay cleaned up and such before he outs the 3800 in.

    I have never moved quite so quickly on something before.... Oh, I just removed my new GT tail lights and placed them in the spare bedroom wrapped in a down comforter

    So I am sure there will be tons of photo's forthcoming.......



    JohnWPB MSG #610, 05-13-2016 09:23 PM
          Well, the swap is underway! In a matter of 5 hours we had the 2.8 out and started to attach the FieroFlyer wiring harness to the 3800. I have a laundry list of items to locate and purchase tonight. I will do most of what I can through Amazon, as their prices are usually better on 90% of any car parts I have ever purchases, as well as I get free 2 day shipping

    Tonight's List of parts to order:

    • Belts
    • Spark Plugs
    • Spark Plug Wires
    • Fuel injector rebuild kit
    • Thermostat and gasket
    • Oil filter adapter gasket
    • Oil filter/oil (Probably get lcoally)
    • temperature sensor
    • Cam sensor
    • Temperature sensor
    • PCV valve



    Engine out, YES!


    Starting to hook up the wiring harness. It looks like the wrong plug was attached to the harness for the IAC, but I do have the correct plug off the original 3800 harness. I just need to figure out how to make sure the wires are hooked to the plug with the correct polarity, as the wires are different colors.




    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #611, 05-14-2016 01:28 PM
          Good to know that you found a mechanic to put it in. Got the exhaust covered already?

    JohnWPB MSG #612, 05-14-2016 02:12 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:
    Good to know that you found a mechanic to put it in. Got the exhaust covered already?


    Yea, me too! No, the exhaust is the last large piece of the puzzle. I do however have the photo's of the one you showed me to work from. I have all the elbow's and pipes bookmarked. I am waiting on a part number for the muffler, from a Camaro I think from Olejoedad.


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #613, 05-14-2016 08:42 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    Yea, me too! No, the exhaust is the last large piece of the puzzle. I do however have the photo's of the one you showed me to work from. I have all the elbow's and pipes bookmarked. I am waiting on a part number for the muffler, from a Camaro I think from Olejoedad.


    So which muffler you will use? (brand)


    JohnWPB MSG #614, 05-14-2016 11:36 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:
    So which muffler you will use? (brand)


    I am going to use...... who am I kidding, I do not have a clue yet

    I know I want it as quiet as possible. It seems with the layout options available, there is absolutely no way to make it really quiet. So no matter how quiet I do make it, it will still have enough rumble I am sure On your advice, I am going to wrap the muffler for that added reduction of the noise / resonance. I am still completely open to suggestions for the quietest muffler out there, with the single input on the top, and 2 outputs on the bottom of the muffler as shown in the photo below.



    I was wondering if I extend the gray wrapped bend, so it extends all the way to the left tail pipe (Picture that 180 bend being right behind the left exhaust tips), if I would have the ability to put a small CAT inline to dampen the noise a tiny bit further. Is there anything that would prevent this, the cradle ect in doing so?

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-14-2016).]

    olejoedad (welch.joe.714@gmail.com) MSG #615, 05-15-2016 08:52 AM
          The muffler in your picture is a Magnaflo.....

    That picture sure looks familiar!


    JohnWPB MSG #616, 05-15-2016 11:09 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by olejoedad:

    The muffler in your picture is a Magnaflo.....

    That picture sure looks familiar!


    It should, it's yours Did you find the part number for that muffler yet by chance? Alex had sent me a very similar picture and I posted it. You saw it, and suggested the one above. It is very similar, but a little bit simpler to make (Total of 6 welds / connections). Alex's has both outputs on the same side, adding a little more height to the setup, as well as adding more bends and such to make it (16 welds / connections).

    Here is Alex's setup: Do NOT get me wrong, it is an excellent setup, however the one above is a bit easier to make:


    Still wondering if I can extend the pipe to fit a small CAT inline, like I mentioned 2 posts back.....


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #617, 05-15-2016 11:43 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    It should, it's yours Did you find the part number for that muffler yet by chance? .....



    I think you missed my reply on previous page. See below. Trust me. Nothing will sound like this Magnaflow. But I understand your point. Exhaust is a very personal but critical part of a car. On a custom one like this it is more critical as it is something that you cannot change cheaply or quickly. Knowing how detailed you are, If I were you I would try to listen to both setups and then decide. Just a recommendation Oh, and there's no space there for a CAT.


     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:

    Found a gem for you. Couple videos too. Look here: Magnaflow 14277 install in a 3800sc by Alex4mula

    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121048.html

    [This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 05-15-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #618, 05-15-2016 01:39 PM
          I am loving this whole mail delivery from Amazon on Sundays thing! I ordered stuff Friday night, and most of it got here this morning. The rest will be here tomorrow.

    I have been keeping track of what this swap is costing. There are certainly a lot of things on my list that others would not need to purchase, and other things that you need that are not on this list. It is a rough idea though, for price, as well as where the parts were obtained from for someone preparing to do an engine swap.



    RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #619, 05-15-2016 01:51 PM
          John,

    Here's the exhaust/muffler info, should be the same as above. The muffler is a Magnaflow for the 3'rd/4'th gen F-body (camaro/firebird)

    http://www.magnaflow.com/products?partNumber=12267

    I'm using the 3" in, 2.5" outs. They have a couple different ones with different finishes.

    Bob

    [This message has been edited by RCR (edited 05-15-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #620, 05-15-2016 02:29 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by RCR:
    Here's the exhaust/muffler info, should be the same as above. The muffler is a Magnaflow for the 3'rd/4'th gen F-body (camaro/firebird)
    http://www.magnaflow.com/products?partNumber=12267


    That's what I needed, thanks! The muffler is on the way. $123 from Amazon, will be here with free 2 day Shipping on Tuesday.



    JohnWPB MSG #621, 05-15-2016 03:17 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:
    I think you missed my reply on previous page.

    Oh, and there's no space there for a CAT.


    Yes, I did somehow miss your post on the last page entirely. Some good info there, and it sounds really good!

    I was not getting any input here on adding a CAT to the setup, so I created a new thread in tech. I figure a LOT more people will be looking there than on page 16 of my build thread


    JohnWPB MSG #622, 05-21-2016 12:33 AM
          A bit more work, and a step closer to getting the engine in the car. Got the fuel injectors / rail all assembled, valve covers tightened, vacuum lines run, wiring harness 80% in place, just need to finish a few more routing issues, then tidy it all up. The belt I purchased for the lower alternator, is a tad bit too long, and the stock Super Charger belt is WAY to long.... not sure what happened there....

    Here is where it sat this evening, other than the headers on bolted on as well:



    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #623, 05-21-2016 08:42 AM
          I replied to your picture in my build thread, but post it here too.

    1. You should consider ditching the extension for the oil filler cap. It serves no practical purpose and was deleted in the recall on these engines.

    2. Your valve covers are mounted on backwards. The factory configuration you have them in puts the oil filler against the Fiero firewall and will make changing the oil a major pain in the ass. You should swap them around.


    JohnWPB MSG #624, 05-21-2016 09:33 AM
          I already ditched the oil extension filler neck, it is not in any of the more recent photos.

    I decided to keep the "solid blue" valve cover towards the rear of the car. The front valve cover is just about the first thing you see when you open the deck-lid, and wanted to keep it clean and as uncluttered as possible. Yes, it is a little bit of a reach getting to the oil cap near the firewall, but something that is very easily done. When oil is required, I have an abundance of funnels that will aid in adding oil with no problem at all.

    I had a few people suggest that it should be moved around, and one person tell me I would not be able to do it this way period. That I had to have the oil cap on the "front" valve cover or I would never be able to change the oil.

    Here are a few examples showing that it most certainly be done this way, without issue
    (Re-posted from the bottom of the previous page of this thread):


    Napoleon_Tanerite MSG #625, 05-21-2016 10:05 AM
          That's fine, so long as it's something you decided to do. I was hoping to prevent an "aaahhhh damnit" moment later down the road when things aren't so easy to reverse.


    Our cars look alike, and now our threads are starting to look alike...


    JohnWPB MSG #626, 05-22-2016 11:36 PM
          What a Day!

    Where to begin......

    Today, I started by hopping into the engine compartment, and scrubbing and sanding. A few hours later, a coat of black base coat, and 15 minutes later a couple coats of clear. The engine bay is no where as good as it was when new, but it is good enough for me:


    After the engine bay, i moved on to getting the engine cradle cleaned up and painted. After closer inspection, the cradle had quite a bit of rust in the typical "under the battery" location.



    Talking with the mechanic, he happened to mention that he knew how to weld It was off to Home Depot, to find something made out of steel.... what exactly, who knew! After going in circles in the store, over by the lumber department there was an end-cap with all sorts of metal brackets. I picked up a few, and then it was off to The part store, to get the correct belt size for the engine...they say the third time is the charm! Then off to Harbor Freight to pick up a cheap welder, It came to someting like $85 out the door.

    Back at the house, the brackets from Home Depot turned out to be the same exact thickness as the original cradle, down to the fraction of a millimeter. Clamped one in place and began trimming it:


    The welded it up a bit. I even got to take a try at welding. Not too bad for my first time I don't think!


    After some hammering, grinding and cleaning it up a little bit, here are the results:


    We are, by NO means going to win any welding awards! But I am quite happy with it. I will get it primed good inside and out tomorrow, and slap a few coats of paint on it.

    Meanwhile, we also fabricated up a pretty cool mount for the coil packs. It is attached to FieroRog dog bone adapter, and angled over the top of the rear facing valve cover. Personally, I like the look of the coil packs, and when I do the blue custom plug wires, and rout them neatly, I think it will look very nice. I didn't get a picture of this today it seems, so will post some pictures tomorrow.

    If that were not enough for the day, the rest of the wiring harness was all butted up, and routed. New sensors and such installed. I also caped off the extra water line hose in the water pump.

    Still not enough? Ok, it was then time to get the engine off of the engine stand, and onto the transmission where it belongs!

    seriously.... still not enough for one day? Ok then... Managed to get the headers and cross over pipe all bolted up, and new O2 sensor installed.

    Still not enough, too bad, go read someone else s build thread! ! !

    I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel here... it's kinda dim, but I can start to just make it out




    PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #627, 05-23-2016 09:20 PM
          Looking good, John! Keep up the good work!

    Pete Matos MSG #628, 05-23-2016 09:57 PM
          That motor is sure looking nice man. Looks like it won't be long and you will be doing some test driving Good luck with it.

    Pete



    JohnWPB MSG #629, 05-24-2016 11:16 PM
          Ok, here are the photos of the coil bracket I fabricated. It is basic for sure, but serves it's function well, and was very simple to make!

    I started roaming the isles of Home Depot looking for something steel.... I finally came across this "tie plate":


    I bought two of them, and put them together, as a single one was a bit too thin and flimsy. I gave it a 90 degree bend, and marked and drilled a few holes in the plates to mount the coil pack mounting bracket onto it. 2 more holes were drilled to mount it to the Fierorog dog bone mount:
    Bottom View:


    Top View:

    Here it is mounted into the 2 bolts on the FieroRog dog bone mount:


    Lastly, here it is with the coil packs set on the bracket. I moved it all around so the coil wires will come up from the bottom, the way one of the packs is sitting in the photo:



    I will be taking it back off, and painting it all up, of course When I get the plug wires made, I will post some pictures with everything in place.


    On a final note for the day, the cradle is all primed, painted and cleared. The section of plate that we welded in looks great!:


    If I would have had all the parts, I think the engine could have been in the car already honestly. I am waiting on the factory rubber engine and transmission mounts, new tire rod ends, tie rods, and struts. I usually think of everything ahead of time, but I totally forgot to get all of that stuff. Thank God for Amazon prime and free 2 day shipping. Everything should be here by Friday, including the A/C lines from Chuck in Orlando.

    If everything falls into place, the engine should be in the car this weekend. Maybe not derivable without tweaking and what all needs to be done, but with all 4 wheels on the ground at least..... hopefully!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-24-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #630, 05-25-2016 11:12 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    Ok, here are the photos of the coil bracket I fabricated. It is basic for sure, but serves it's function well, and was very simple to make!
    ..
    ..



    Please do not take this the wrong way. But you will have all the trouble to fill the oil in the firewall so that the oil cap is not on the front and all is clean and now you put the coils right there? Why not in the same place but on the rear head (closer to firewall)? Or near battery? Did you relocate the battery? Just saying.

    [This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 05-25-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #631, 05-25-2016 01:47 PM
          I kept the battery in the stock location .

    As I mentioned above, I actually like the look of the coil packs when the wires are run properly and neatly it gives a nice finished look in my opinion, of course that's my personal taste.

    As for filling the oil, doesn't anyone else on this forum own a funnel besides me? :-)

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-25-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #632, 05-26-2016 06:50 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    I kept the battery in the stock location .

    As I mentioned above, I actually like the look of the coil packs when the wires are run properly and neatly it gives a nice finished look in my opinion, of course that's my personal taste.

    As for filling the oil, doesn't anyone else on this forum own a funnel besides me? :-)



    Cool. I get it. Are you going to use stock coils?



    JohnWPB MSG #633, 05-26-2016 11:39 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:
    Cool. I get it. Are you going to use stock coils?


    For now the stock coils are gonna be used. As I get the engine running, I may upgrade the coils.

    Tonight, the engine met the cradle! They absolutely did not like each other at first. In all honestly, and full disclosure, there was a lot of fighting. After a little mediation, I was able to get them to see eye to eye, it just was not easy!

    For anyone doing this, the transmission mount is a "B"ad word! The only way we could possibly get it to go was to attach the cradle side of the mount first, then mount the second piece of the mount to it, and tighten. I had to drill a second hole in the cradle for the mount. Next....move around, contort and twist the cradle to get one of the 3 transmission side holes to line up, and squeezes a couple fingers in there to get the first of 3 (4 on some transmissions) bolts to start. Then, twist and repeat for the other 2 bolts. There is NOT a lot of room to work there!

    Now I am waiting on more parts.........

    The left caliper seemed to be leaking, and the right was wearing the brake pads unevenly. Thus, 2 new rear calipers are on the way. Also, the ball joints in the back, one of the rubber seals was shot, and the other was pretty bad, thus new ball joints. While I am at it, new tie rods and tie rod ends. And just for completeness, new struts to complete the rear suspension.

    Monday being a holiday, Amazon free 2 day shipping will not be here until Tuesday of next week

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-28-2016).]

    bergingstrucker (antoin@hotmail.com) MSG #634, 05-27-2016 01:30 AM
          JohnWPB can you please sent me my stickers, I'm waiting since April 27 for an answer.

    JohnWPB MSG #635, 05-27-2016 11:12 PM
          Wow.... another 16~17 hour day! Started at 6:30 am going to work, then home at 4 Pm, and working on the car till an hour ago.....

    I was hoping to have the engine in the car this weekend, but it does not look like that is going to happen...... as the engine was put in the car this evening! ! ! Finally!

    Here is the moment of anticipation:


    And finally, the engine in the car:


    I am waiting on lower ball joints, tie rod ends, and new left and right calipers. Soon as that is all here, I can get the suspension all together, and put the car back down on the ground.

    I installed the new struts already, and painted everything up nice and pretty.


    I would liked to have done the springs in blue, but I liked the idea of getting the car done and back together even more

    I am going to go jump in the shower, go to bed and sleep till probably at least 10am tomorrow!

    [EDIT] That estimate was just about right, I just got up 15 minutes ago, and it is now 10:30am.

    One problem we ran into was the A/C lines. I ordered a set from Chuck, in Central Florida. When they came yesterday, they did not fit for some reason. Talking to Chuck on the phone, and sending pictures back and forth, it was clear that the compressor on the 04 Grand Prix is quite different. When the compressor is mounted, the 2 holes in the rear are vertical to each other. ALL other compressors for Series II and III that he has seen are horizontal. Also, the holes are 1.5" from center to center, as where ALL the other 3800 A/C compressors are an inch and 5/8 ths.
    Chuck's remedy was to head to the junk yard, and call me first thing this morning. He confirmed on an 04 Grtand Prix, that the compressor is indeed quite different, and now he understands what the problem is. He is removing the lines, and making me up a new set of A/C lines.

    While I type this, he just sent me a photo from the junk yard for comparison:


    That looks like it will do the trick! Today, run all the wires to where they go, and maybe get the gas tank dropped and the new fuel pump installed........

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-28-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #636, 05-27-2016 11:18 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by bergingstrucker:

    JohnWPB can you please sent me my stickers, I'm waiting since April 27 for an answer.


    How many answers do you want? I told you you peeled the clear laminate off of the top, and not the backing. This unfortunately ruined the stickers. I then told you I would send you replacements free of charge, including the international postage. You will have them shortly. What more answers are you waiting for? And please, this is a build thread, please respect that.



    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #637, 05-28-2016 03:06 PM
          This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


    JohnWPB MSG #638, 05-28-2016 08:39 PM
          My car has reared it's ugly head yet again........

    Everything is connected, and when the key is turned to the on position, the tach bumps, check engine and other lights come on.... all seems well.

    When I turn the key to the Start position, nothing happens. Jumping the terminals directly on the starter, engage it, however the engine will not crank over. Turning the engine with the cam bolt and a wrench does work, but I always thought it felt a little stiff to me.. The mechanic says it seems normal to him. Off to get a new battery, and they tested and said it is in excellent condition, and fully charged.

    Next, I went and had the starter tested, and it came up as "FAILED" at Autozone. So I purchased a new one, came home and put the battery back in, and hooked up the new starter. Still refuses to turn over the engine when manually jumping it. The mechanic kept trying to get it to turn over by jumping the terminals on the starter, and it was then that I noticed smoke coming from the 20 or so wire bundle that plug into the coil pack. Why the hell would it be getting power from jumping the starter?

    FAR more questions than answers at this point, and not sure where to even think about doing next......


    Pete Matos MSG #639, 05-28-2016 10:40 PM
          Sorry to hear it man. If you need any help I am still in west Palm have not closed on our house just yet. Have a nice memorial day weekend....

    Pete



    JohnWPB MSG #640, 05-29-2016 11:00 PM
          Pete, thanks for the offer! I still to have to figure a time for you to swing by sometime!


    Ok, the swap took a turn for the good for once today. Let me say that again, so I can let it sink in, something went good, and turned out right today.... I type it, but still have trouble beleiving it

    Laying in bed last night, and trying to figure out why when turning the key to the start position, nothing was happening.... everything else seemed Ok with the wiring...... Then BAM! It hit me! That EUREKA moment.... Neutral safety switch?..... could it be that easy? Soon as I got up this morning, I ran out and moved the shift selector on the transmission all the way to the end. I reached in and went to crank it.... nothing I went and moved the selector on the transmission all the way to the other end, and tried the key again, CLICK! I could hear the solenoid click! WooHoo! Stupid overlooked mistake by the mechanic and myself yesterday in all the turmoil of trying to get things hooked up and checked.

    The starter still would not turn over the engine.... so still had to figure that out. We ran a ground cable directly from the battery to the starter, and sure enough, the car cranked over when I turned the key. HOW I have no clue.... there is a ground going directly from the battery to the engine block. a SOLID big bolt, and NO paint interfering. Another ground going from the battery directly to the chassis, again nice clean contact, stripped of all paint. This somehow was not enough, so we ran another ground cable from the battery, to the engine cradle. Got everything all bolted up and tucked away, and the engine now cranks over as it should when the key is turned!

    As of not the tank is out, and pretty rusted on the inside. I am going to wasy it out with CLR, and an acid bath tomorrow, and let it dry till Wednesday, when my 2 cans of POR-15 in tank sealant arrive. I will pour it in, swirl the tank around every which way to coat everything and let it dry.

    I have a new fuel pump for a Chevy Silvarado 5.8l (Part# EP381)as recommended for the 3800 install, and new Fiero Store Sending unit for in the tank, that will HOPEFULLY finally fix my gas gauge not working!

    Anyhow, no gas tank in the car, the next best thing was to spray some gas in the intake. As the mechanic did this, I cranked the key, and sure enough it started! He was able to squirt in fuel enough to keep it running for about 10 seconds.
    Noo too exciting, but some smoke from oil and stuff burning off the manifold:


    This actually says a LOT! The computer is working, Spark plug wires are routed correctly, the coils are good. Oh.... and it was LOUD! Straight off the manifold, no pipe or muffler connected loud

    All in all, a good day! ! ! !

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-06-2016).]

    Pete Matos MSG #641, 05-30-2016 12:24 PM
          Congrats man I am sure that must have been very satisfying to hear it roar to life! nice long weekend to tinker with it but it has been raining a good bit here. Good luck

    Pete



    2.5 MSG #642, 05-31-2016 08:42 AM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    ....so we ran another ground cable from the battery, to the engine cradle. Got everything all bolted up and tucked away, and the engine now cranks over as it should when the key is turned!



    CONGRATS!


    Vernon8360 MSG #643, 05-31-2016 09:48 AM
          Engine start, terrific milestone. KEYS! Very useful when you can find them.

    TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #644, 05-31-2016 09:50 AM
          SWEETNESS MY FRIEND!

    & the spoils of your Victory are close at hand!

    Careful not to get too many tickets!


    JohnWPB MSG #645, 06-01-2016 06:41 PM
          Ok, the car is almost ready to sit on all 4 again......

    New calipers & pads, new hubs, new slotted drilled rotors, new struts, ball joints, tie rod ends, and stainless steel brake lines. That takes care of the rear for the most part!


    In searching for a method of connecting the main radiator line, and "Teeing' in" the heater core line.... I found all sorts of methods. Some splicing hoses together, some using metal pipe fittings from Home Depot ect.

    I went in the back of the store behind the parts counter to have a look at the selection of radiator hoses they had. SO many had "T's" in them, but just about all of them had the wrong size hoses, or the right size hoses, that flared out to a much larger hose at the "t".

    It was then that I spotted this one on the top of the rack. PERFECT! Here is what it looks like when I purchased it:


    After cutting off the clamps, here is what I was left with:
    The angle of the heater hose connection is perfect! It will point it right in the direction it needs to go to connect to the hose coming from the car.


    I purchased this at AutoZone locally, but the number should easily cross reference if anyone else needs one. HERE IT IS ON AMAZON


    Lastly, the gas tank was pretty rusted on the inside... as the car has sat quite some time. I cleaned it the best I could with different chemicals, and let it dry a couple days. Today I put some POR-15 Gas tank sealer in the tank, swished it around, and have set it up to dry. A couple days ago, I went ahead and painted the outside of the tank to keep it from rusting.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-05-2016).]

    TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #646, 06-01-2016 08:33 PM
          Don't forget to sign and date it before re-installing!

    Someone many years down the road would appreciate the find!


    PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #647, 06-01-2016 08:56 PM
          Excellent work, John! Remember to get a video of the first "official" startup!

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #648, 06-01-2016 09:16 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    ...
    After cutting off the clamps, here is what I was left with:
    ..



    Just saw this last week and found it very educational. If that pipe is plastic I would watch this:

    http://www.motorweek.org/fe..._garage/clamps-hoses


    JohnWPB MSG #649, 06-01-2016 10:35 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by TXOPIE:
    Don't forget to sign and date it before re-installing!
    Someone many years down the road would appreciate the find!


    Too late........


     
    quote
    Originally posted by PatrickTRoof:
    Excellent work, John! Remember to get a video of the first "official" startup!

    I plan on it! It's going to be tomorrow from what it is looking like now

    Informative video Alex! I always thought those clamps were inferior, and replaced them when I could. Good information in there.

    I am impressed with the POR-15 tank sealer!




    I poured 2 of the small cans in the tank, and duct taped the openings closed. I then danced around with the tank swirling, tilting, rolling, angling, rotating, end over ending, rocking, twisting and probably some other moves for around 15 minutes. I wanted to make absolutely sure the interior was completely coated, and coated good. I poured out the remaining loose liquid as the instructions said.

    I then hooked up my Shop-Vac with the hose connected to the exhaust port, and blew it into the tank. The air coming out was warm and dry, and I let the puppy run like that for a few hours. That set it up where it is completely dry to the touch.

    I shoved my phone down in the tank, and here is what it looks like on the inside. I WISH I had taken some photo's before, when it was all rusted! It was pretty bad. You can see the texture of the rust in the picture underneath the sealant:





    I am very happy and know that I will probably never have to worry about rust inside the tank again.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-29-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #650, 06-02-2016 08:04 AM
          Just curious, do the POR specs say it will also stick well to plastic?

    mrfred8 MSG #651, 06-02-2016 09:48 AM
          Wow, you made it into the "construction zone" very cool. Congrats!

    Pete Matos MSG #652, 06-03-2016 09:20 PM
          Sweet I like that tank liner stuff.... Nice also that you are in the Construction zone! Congrats man



    JohnWPB MSG #653, 06-05-2016 10:09 PM
          Interesting.... My build thread has been moved to the Construction Zone..... I never even asked Cliff to move it. I only noticed it, as I followed a bookmark to my thread to post an update. I tried to hit "Reply" and panicked as it said the thread has been closed!!! Luckily I noticed the text just below the last post that is a link to where the thread was moved to. Sure would be nice if Pennock's was like other forums, and when a page is moved it just forwards to the correct page automatically, instead of first going to a CLOSED THREAD.

    I am sorry for the delay in responding, With the thread moved, I never got email notice that there were any replies in the thread.

    As for being used on plastic..... the POR-15 page does not mention anything about plastic specifically on their site anywhere. I did some research before I bought it however, and did find some information on this website discussing it:

    "we were doing some coating in some doors and were using a plastic Coke bottle to put the POR-15 Black Paint into so I coated the entire inside of the plastic Coke bottle let it dry for several days and then put gas with the 10% ethanol into the bottle and have been letting it soak for about 4 months now and the POR-15 is holding tight and you can even flex the plastic bottle and it is still holding tight."

    This seemed pretty good to me, and gave it a shot.

    When I got the fuel pump in the tank, I filled it up to about half a tank. I put the fuel line in a plastic bottle, and kicked on the key. The gas has never been cleaner coming out of this tank!


    Just an FYI, Anyone that is subscribed to this thread, you need to unsubscribe from the closed one in General chat, and Subscribe to the one here in the Construction zone. The other thread looks "normal" but you can not post in it. You also need to do this to receive email notifications of new posts here.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-05-2016).]

    TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #654, 06-06-2016 10:04 AM
          Congratulations on moving over to "construction zone" !

    JohnWPB MSG #655, 06-10-2016 11:23 PM
          Ok a few small updates..... I decided to use the Fiero thermostat housing on the 3800. The bolt holes ALMOST line up with the 3800 thermostat housing. I had to drill the holes a tiny bit bigger in the Fiero housing so it would fit. The rest was a matter of capping off the 3/4" line and the small pipe. I may take a second Fiero one in the future and really di it right, cutting and welding it and such, but for now, this works.

    Next was the transmission selector. It is made from a 25th century metal discovered by Captain Picard himself on an away mission! Damn that is hard steel! I tried 3 different drill bits, and a high speed electric drill, and I could barely see where I scratched the paint off! I took it to a machine shop, and they were able to drill the hole I needed to put the pin in to connect the shift cable to.

    Lastly, I purchased a cable nut, and cut the throttle cable to the correct length, and attatched it so it looks like a stock setup. I will get pictures when there is some light to work with.

    On a final note, I tested the fuel pressure at the rail, and I was pushing between 95 and 100 PSI ! ! ! ! ! Posting a question in Technical chat, it appears that I need a fuell pressure regulator set up. Yea! One MORE thing to make / fabricate! ! ! I had done quite a bit of research in prep for this swap, and this is the first I have seen this. Hopefully it will help someone else reading here looking for swap info in the future.


    The info below is from Darth Fiero, and is from THIS THREAD, the second post in the thread.

    _________________________________________________________
    Originally posted by Darth Fiero

    Are you saying you have a stainless steel 3800 fuel rail? If so, that is a returnless fuel rail and it does not have a fuel pressure regulator in it. You will need one in the system somewhere.

    Here's a picture of what I did:



    Basically, I cut the fuel pressure regulator off a stock L67 (3800 Series 2 SC) fuel rail and used an AN flaring tool (37 deg flares) to flare the 3/8 line coming out of the regulator (after sliding the -6 AN tube nut and tube sleeve on) and connected that to a -6 AN steel TEE fitting. I flared the fuel supply line coming out of the stock Fiero fuel filter and put a nut and tube sleeve on it as well to connect to the bottom feed of the TEE. I then put a 45 deg -6 AN swivel hose end on the AN braided hose I was using down at the TEE. The return line coming out of the fuel pressure regulator is 5/16" and can be connected to the 5/16" return line going back to the Fiero gas tank via clamped on fuel injection spec rubber hose you can get at any auto parts store.

    At the fuel rail, you'll need a -6AN male to 3/8" push-connect EFI fitting so you have something to connect the other braided -6 AN hose end to.

    You can get all of these parts at Summit Racing Equipment. Below is the list and qty of each item you'll need:
    2x -6 AN tube nut (steel)
    2x -6 AN tube sleeve (steel)
    1x -6 AN male TEE (steel)
    1x -6 AN 45deg swivel hose end (aluminum)
    1x -6 AN straight hose end (aluminum)
    1x -6 AN male to 3/8" EFI push/quick connect (aluminum)
    About 3 foot or so of -6 AN braided hose (if you mount your fuel pressure regulator near the stock Fiero V6 fuel filter location)
    1x L67 (3800 Series 2 SC) fuel rail and regulator

    SPECIAL TOOLS NEEDED:
    37 deg AN flaring tool
    Tubing bender
    Tubing cutter
    Pneumatic cut-off wheel (to cut the braided AN hose to length with - apply electrical tape to braided line before cutting; then make sure you clean out the hose well after cutting to prevent debris for entering the fuel system)

    -ryan

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-10-2016).]

    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #656, 06-11-2016 10:37 AM
          My similar setup using a fuel line from a seller here. Forgot his name. Don't forget the vacuum line.

    This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #657, 06-21-2016 01:15 PM
          Any updates?

    zmcdonal MSG #658, 06-21-2016 01:50 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:

    My similar setup using a fuel line from a seller here. Forgot his name. Don't forget the vacuum line.

    This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


    I don't want to hi-jack John's thread but I was looking at how my fuel pressure regulator is setup by the previous owner on my 3800 and noticed that my vacuum line is in fact missing. Where does that vacuum line need to go to? And what purpose does it serve? I have been running my swap without it for ~5,000 miles with no noticeable issues.


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #659, 06-21-2016 11:29 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by zmcdonal:


    I don't want to hi-jack John's thread but I was looking at how my fuel pressure regulator is setup by the previous owner on my 3800 and noticed that my vacuum line is in fact missing. Where does that vacuum line need to go to? And what purpose does it serve? I have been running my swap without it for ~5,000 miles with no noticeable issues.


    Needs to be connected to an engine vacuum source. Otherwise it will not control fuel pressure according to engine loads as related to vacuum state.

    [This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 06-21-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #660, 06-22-2016 11:34 PM
          Sorry, not much to report on lately. I have taken a break for a week or so. The next step is to get the car towed to an exhaust shop. I just need to do a little research on a good place, that will take the muffler and parts that I have and create the exhaust system.

    Next is the fuel pressure regulator, again, a bit of research, and get the parts I need to construct it. Thanks for the vacuum line tips, as I would have not known to do that.


    I have spent the past week cleaning up, putting all tools back in their proper place, and such. The past 2 weeks was a mechanical whirlwind, and everything was a MESS! Nice to have things back in order again!


    PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #661, 06-23-2016 09:19 PM
          Allow me to jump on the congratulations bandwagon for making it into the construction zone! I was just going to get on your thread and say that for all the work you've done on old blue, you should be put there...but you already were!

    JohnWPB MSG #662, 06-23-2016 10:20 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by PatrickTRoof:

    Allow me to jump on the congratulations bandwagon for making it into the construction zone! I was just going to get on your thread and say that for all the work you've done on old blue, you should be put there...but you already were!


    Yea, right after you texted me and asked why my thread was closed hhahaha! (The General forum version of this thread still exists, just it is now Marked as X CLOSED.) I wish there was a better way to link from that thread to this, as I have had a few emails and texts asking why my thread was closed

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-29-2016).]

    PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #663, 06-23-2016 11:30 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:


    Yea, right after you texted me and asked why my thread was closed hhahaha! I wish there was a better way to link from that thread to this, as I have had a few emails and texts asking why my thread was closed



    What? Haha, why do you think I texted you? I went to your thread because I hadn't gotten any updates in a while, and saw that it was closed! At first I thought that S-bag had gotten into it like he did my event page for Daytona! LMAO


    sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #664, 06-24-2016 03:10 AM
          I haven't been on in a WHILE, and not wanting to read through pages and pages... did you ever check your fuse box? Just curious.

    JohnWPB MSG #665, 06-24-2016 04:23 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by sardonyx247:

    I haven't been on in a WHILE, and not wanting to read through pages and pages... did you ever check your fuse box? Just curious.


    Yes. I pulled every fuse, inspected the blades, and tested each and every one with a test probe. I had no bad connection that I could find, even wiggling the wires on the back, every time I had the probe on the other side testing.

    The intermittent wiring issue was never found, but hopefully replacing the computer, complete wiring harness, engine, and all grounds will resolve it.


    sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #666, 06-26-2016 03:04 AM
          Are any of the blades discolored?
    Or are they all bright and shinny?

    I do hope your intermittent problem is gone.


    JohnWPB MSG #667, 06-29-2016 09:24 PM
          Well, they are not all bright and shiny, but none of the appeared discolored or corroded in any way.


    Danyel MSG #668, 07-19-2016 08:58 PM
          UPDATES ???



    JohnWPB MSG #669, 07-19-2016 11:59 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Danyel:

    UPDATES ???


    Nothing for now. I have held off till I get back from Frazee for the Tyler Shipman Memorial Car Show. Then I plan to get moving again. Too bad you are not going to be there this year I will see you in a couple years again when you come back down to the US

    A little off topic, but this is my thread
    Here is a photo I took at the 2014 Tyler show. I was being hoisted up, while standing on the "tongs" of a fork lift!

    Yes, that's ALL Fieros up the left side of the screen into the distance.

    The first thing I need to do when I get back is get it towed to an exhaust shop and get that taken care of. After that, I can run it a bit more, check the timing, coolant temperature, vacuum leaks, and what not. It's just far too loud with just the headers in place to run for more than a minute or so in my neighborhood.

    The A/C is on the list as well. I got the new 3800 conversion A/C lines in the mail from Chuck in Central Florida. Hopefully I will be driving it a little later this summer......


    Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #670, 09-04-2016 09:28 PM
          Driving 3800 already?

    JohnWPB MSG #671, 09-05-2016 02:58 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Alex4mula:

    Driving 3800 already?


    Nope.... too much other stuff going on since I got back, and actually just got back from a 4 day camping trip. I need to get the fuel regulator built, and then get her towed to an exhaust shop. It is sitting under cover, and I am in no hurry to work on it in this friggin heat! It will not be long till things start to cool down a bit......




    deloreanant MSG #672, 09-09-2016 10:57 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by JohnWPB:

    I finished up recovering the door panels. The bottom part is Mr. Mike's lowers in Electric Blue to match the seats, and I did the top part of the door in Black AllSport vinyl.



    TONS more work to do of course, but a little at a time I guess......



    Hey John,

    Great work on your car. You most certainly have the best documentation I have come across; simply amazing. Reading about all of your troubles, I'm just so empathetic to you. MACCO. Nightmare. Powder coating. Nightmare. Starting issues. Nightmare. My Fiero has certainly had its share of issues. My car's battery would die every few days. And not just die, but DIE. It would no longer hold a charge and I would have to buy a new battery. So I feel you with that one. Anyway, everything you've done has been amazing. I too have Mr. Mike's door panels, however, my bottom panel looks nothing like yours! What did you do to make yours look so factory? Mine are wrinkly and I know it's not Mr. Mike's fault. What did I do wrong?

    Thanks for any advice you can give us.


    JohnWPB MSG #673, 09-10-2016 03:57 PM
          Thanks for the comments, this build has certainly had its up's and WAY downs!

    I removed the carpeting from the existing panel, using brake cleaner to remove the adhesive and such. In all honestly, the backing behind the lower panels that Mr. Mike ships is too thin. It's about like a cereal box's cardboard on the back. I had some more cardboard type stuff lying around that I attached to the back, for better support. This made it lay much nicer, until they were ruined by the whole MAACO disaster...


    JohnWPB MSG #674, 11-11-2016 09:08 PM
          Ok, long time no updates. I have been busy with many other things in life and work over the summer. Not to mention it was WAY to hot to work on the Fiero the past couple months. That has changed now, as it is finally dropping into the upper 70's at night here.

    I just called and renewed my AAA membership tonight. I am going to have the car towed to the exhaust shop in the coming couple weeks to get the exhaust installed. Right after I get the fuel rail figured out with the fuel pressure regulator.

    I cranked it over tonight, and it fired right up! REALLY loud with no exhaust system at all installed, but it does run.

    In the mean time, with the nice weather, I decided to tinker around a little with the car this evening. I ordered some cheap LED's a few weeks ago, and thought I would test them in different areas. they are SUPER thin, around the thickness of a dime. I found a sweet spot right above the engine on one of the "cross members" of the decklid. One strip lights up the entire engine bay, and unless you lean pretty far down, you can not see the LED strip at all. Perfect!

    When I say cheal LED strips, I mean CHEAP! ! ! ! !


    YOu can find the LED strips on the wish.com website. Unfortunately, I think you have to login in with Facebook, or provide an email to browse their site. It is worth it, as they have a lot of neat cheap crap to browse through. (I lose and break sunglasses all the time. I just bought 6 pair of impact resistance sunglasses for work for $0.89 cents a pair).

    Being they are so cheap, quality control is not the greatest reading the reviews. I just ordered 5 packages to make sure I had a few good ones. In my case, 9 of the 10 strips work perfectly.

    As mentioned, they are super thin:




    I took this photo in total darkness, with my cell phone, and no flash:



    This single strip really lights up the engine NICE!


    The LED strip seems to get pretty hot, not too hot to handle, but pretty hot. The nature of high power LED's is that they can get really hot, and thus I do not think the engine heat will effect it mounted to the decklid. I can not speak for certain of this, and will not know how well it will hold up for a month or 2 to the heat

    You can see the wire powering the LED strip in the photo's. I will be drilling a really small hole, and fishing the wire through the decklid, to come out right next to the battery where the electric trunk popper wire comes out as well.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-11-2016).]

    davylong86 MSG #675, 11-12-2016 04:44 PM
          Looking great John! Your hard work and time put into this car is really paying off. Would love to see this car when me and the wife go down to Jupiter for Stl Cardinal spring training games.

    DotTC MSG #676, 11-12-2016 06:25 PM
          WOW is all I can say. I just read through your adventure from page 1 to here.. and WOW! Never been a fan of that front fascia, but beautiful car and beautiful color. Makes me wish my wrist was no longer broken and I had my car finally. So many wild ideas, and hopefully the money to them now.

    Good job on the car! It's awesome you never gave up through all that.

    A++


    JohnWPB MSG #677, 11-12-2016 09:51 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by davylong86:
    Looking great John! Your hard work and time put into this car is really paying off. Would love to see this car when me and the wife go down to Jupiter for Stl Cardinal spring training games.



    Thanks, it has been a true labor of love for sure! Leme' know when you are in town, lunch on a Saturday or Sunday is not out of the question

     
    quote
    Originally posted by DotTC:
    WOW is all I can say. I just read through your adventure from page 1 to here.. and WOW! Never been a fan of that front fascia, but beautiful car and beautiful color. Makes me wish my wrist was no longer broken and I had my car finally. So many wild ideas, and hopefully the money to them now.
    Good job on the car! It's awesome you never gave up through all that.
    A++


    Thanks, I left the rear alone, but just wanted some thing a little different for the front. I like that I can put the Stainless Fiero logo in there, and also a place for fog lights.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-12-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #678, 11-12-2016 10:03 PM
          I ordered a NOS sunroof seal a few weeks ago here in the mall. I installed it a few days ago, and I no longer have any leaks! The one from the Fiero store never settled down, and I could see light between the glass and the seal when sitting in the car.

    During the replacement of the seal, i noticed a lot of scratches and some fogging of the glass around the edges. I remembered seeing that Richard from Pro Source had 10 of them some time ago. I called them, and Richard was glad to help, and I have a brand new original sunroof glass on the way


    JohnWPB MSG #679, 11-14-2016 10:43 PM
          I have been researching LED headlight replacements over the past week or so. I have the quad-low profile buckets from Danyel installed in my car. They have the typical H9 Hallogen bulbs in them. I found some LED replacements for $39 and free shipping on Amazon.


    The LED Headlights came in the mail today, and I installed them in the low beam housings. The car is not yet running, so I could not take it out for a spin and drive it up to a wall to see what the light spread is. However, walking about 50 feet away from the car, and hunching down to about where you would be aligned in an oncoming vehicle, the lights were not bothersome in any way. When I kneeled down, low to the ground, they were too bright to stare into.

    It was then when I walked over to the car again, that I thought I saw a line where the light cut off. I grabbed a suitcase from the garage, and put it in front of the car. Sure enough, a PERFECT cutoff line! Looks like I need to adjust the lights up just a little bit, but NO light scatter at all to be seen!

    This is how the bulbs came packaged:


    A close up of the bulb, and the waterproof fan assembly on the back to keep them cool:


    Here is the LED headlight in the drivers side housing, with the standard halogen on the passenger side:


    Lastly, here are the 2 LED's installed and the light they cast forward. It appears to be bright white, with just the very slightest tinge of blue.


    Lastly, here is the suitcase put out in front of the lights, and you can clearly see the cutoff line:



    I am quite happy with the results! I have always disliked the yellow light that headlights on cars give off. Technology has finally caught up to my taste over the past few years

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-14-2016).]

    JohnWPB MSG #680, 11-23-2016 10:26 PM
          I ordered another set of the LED headlights like I purchased above. They came in today, and I installed them in the High Beam housings. Man are they bright! Without the cutoff that the low beam housings have, the high beams light up everything! I am certainly happy with the results.

    I scheduled the rental of a trailer from U-Haul for Saturday morning. I am finally getting the car to the exhaust shop. I have the Camaro muffler here, as well as the wrap and Z06 tips. They gave me a quote of around $500 for them to make up the full custom exhaust. It could possibly be less, or a bit more. If more than $100 more they are gonna call me. It was hard for them to give an estimate without having the car there, so this is the best they could come up with, and the numbers are fine my me!


    JohnWPB MSG #681, 11-25-2016 11:32 PM
          This page is MINE!

    Ok, one step closer! I rented a U-Haul and took the car to the exhaust shop today. I brought the muffler, a diagram of a standard Fiero 3800 exhaust for reference, and my Corvette Z06 exhaust tips. They are not sure of the muffler I brought them, he thinks there is one that is identical, but around 3 inches shorter. This would give a little more clearance and room to work. They are going to call me tomorrow with more information when the main warehouse they order from is open.

    Ole' Blue all ready to go to the shop on the trailer:


    Up on the lift and the tech getting their first look at what needs to be done:


    One thing the tech noticed immediately as we rolled the car back into the bay, was how bad the alignment camber was in the back! Changing an engine, transmission, and axles to completely different ones can cause that I hear

    I should have the car back tomorrow afternoon, or possibly Monday, depending if their warehouse is open tomorrow or not. They are not sure if they took 4 days off or not for Thanksgiving.



    JohnWPB MSG #682, 11-28-2016 07:54 PM
          I got the car back today, They custom made everything, wrapped the muffler and pipes, and installed my ZR1 tips. The total exhaust system, with them providing a muffler, all in, $425.

    The Magnaflow muffler I had purchased, with it's 3" pipe, I was told was a bit overkill, as well as it would have been a lot louder. I went with a standard Z28 muffler, -vs- the performance one.

    I hope to be actually driving the car here soon!

    On another note, I miss this thread being in the General Chat. Seems it gets FAR less traffic and posts here in the Construction Zone.....

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-28-2016).]

    Danyel MSG #683, 11-29-2016 07:59 PM
          Super to see you are close to getting back behind the wheel of this beauty .... maybe Frazee for the tenth ??? Will be there with the "VERT"

    your canadian friend
    Danyel



    2002z28ssconv MSG #684, 12-15-2016 01:05 AM
          Driving it yet?

    JohnWPB MSG #685, 12-15-2016 11:36 AM
          No.......... I can not get it to run. It sputters, pops and dies. I have checked, and re-checked the plug wire routing, as well as mechanic for verification. They are indeed going to the correct cylinders. New wires & plugs (Properly gapped). Fuel pressure holds at 50 PSI.

    In a couple weeks I am going to flat-bed the car to a specialized mechanic that I have known for years. His shop specializes in hard to track down problems, and completely custom installs. It is probably going to cost an arm and a leg, but I know that he will get to the bottom of it, and I will finally have a running car. I am just so over this car and all the problems, I just want it finished, and I no longer have an interest in working on it, engine wise.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-15-2016).]

    nosrac MSG #686, 12-15-2016 12:30 PM
          WoW, I just finished reading the whole thread. Just WoW. I know exactly how you feel. I had similar problem with my OLD Fiero and finally threw in the towel on my 86 Turbo and started the whole fiasco again with an 88.
    This time around it's much better. I think you may have a ICM grounding. Do you have a scanner and FP gauge? It was weird how you had to ground the actual starter and not just the block and frame.

    I know your so done right now but a few months off and slowly come back to it. Driving the 3800SC is OMG so worth all the agony and frustration if/when you git it running like it is suppose to.

    [This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 12-15-2016).]

    nosrac MSG #687, 12-15-2016 12:36 PM
          If you don't have a scanner PM me for the info. They are cheap ~$20 off eBay but don't get the super cheap ones because it might not work.

    Danyel MSG #688, 01-30-2017 11:19 PM
          Update John ???



    VanGTP5000 (vantheman4@aol.com) MSG #689, 04-08-2017 12:25 PM
          Bump to hear how this all turned out John!
    I just read this whole thread as I just moved to the area and am hoping to hear that it all worked out for you.

    Regards,

    Van


    JohnWPB MSG #690, 04-08-2017 01:02 PM
          Wow, I was suprised to get a notice that there was a post to this thread. Since being moved to the construction zone. There seems to be very little traffic in here compared to when the thread was in general chat

    I am pretty close to having it running now. I am having some sensor problems. The computer is getting incorrect air intake temperature, and coolant temperature. This is making the engine run like crap, as it is taking those temperatures as accurate, and trying to adjust air flow and fuel to compensate.

    Where did you move to in the area? I am in West Palm Beach (It's the WPB part of my scree name actually )




    VanGTP5000 (vantheman4@aol.com) MSG #691, 04-08-2017 03:34 PM
          Yes I picked up on that... I guess that's how I found your original build thread when I did the search for WPB

    I just moved to Boynton Beach and It is really tough getting used to living in paradise! I am not missing the freezing cold rain of New Jersey right about now!

    I am sorry to hear about your sensor issues. Have you replaced the temp sensor? I seem to remember getting a new one for around $30 when we did my swap.


    Spadesluck MSG #692, 04-26-2017 01:30 AM
          Looked through this whole thread. Very entertaining read for sure. Not sure how well I would have taken to some of your adversities but good on you for making it through them. Good to see you are still chipping away at it.

    JohnWPB MSG #693, 05-01-2017 09:49 PM
          Yep, there certainly have been some adversities
    The swap has been 99% complete for a few months now. I have been unable to track down why the engine is fumbling so bad, and I have to feather the throttle constantly to keep her running.

    I decided to take it to a local shop, Alternative Automotive, that is VERY good. The entire shop from the 5 mechanics, receptionist and manager are all related. This business has been in their family for 30 years. They specialize in unusual and hard to find problems. I rented a U-Haul trailer, and dropped it off at their shop on Friday after work.



    They are closed on the weekends. I did not hear from them today, but I forced myself to not call and bug them, and give them some time to go through it.

    I am sure its probably gonna cost an arm and a leg, but I am just done with messing with this car. It has been a 5 year long nightmare, that I just want to end!

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-01-2017).]

    TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #694, 05-02-2017 10:20 AM
          John,

    I can relate to the long road you have been on...BluDrm still is not finished because of other's BS and I started her before your current build.
    I wish you the best with getting her completed this summer.


    VanGTP5000 (vantheman4@aol.com) MSG #695, 05-02-2017 11:26 AM
          John,

    Well I hope they don't keep you in suspense too long! I know how hard it can be to try and have patience in a case like this. Your commitment to your project (both financial & emotional) will undoubtedly be an inspiration to many others on this forum! I myself can't wait to get a glimpse of your success when I see you driving that beauty around town someday soon!!!



    JohnWPB MSG #696, 05-02-2017 05:50 PM
          TXopie I didn't realize you started yours before mine.... So yea then, you know how long a road it has been!

    I hope to be driving it around here soon as well! The last Fiero I happened on in South Florida was around 4 years ago, I got along side and realized it was Lou, another Fiero owner in Del Ray beach. Fiero spottings are few and FAR between around here ;(

    I called the shop today at 4:30, figuring I had been good by lasting 2 whole work days without calling them. She explained her dad has been backed up, and will not get a chance to really delve into it until tomorrow.



    VanGTP5000 (vantheman4@aol.com) MSG #697, 05-04-2017 03:49 PM
          Well I will have to be on the look out for Lou then because Delray isn't very far from me at all! I hope you have gotten some good news/feedback on your car's issue in the meanwhile. We are all still rooting for you John.

    JohnWPB MSG #698, 05-04-2017 05:02 PM
          I got a call yesterday with an update. The mechanic started tracing the wires for the temperature sensor, as it is reading -38. If it was reading -40, it would be as if the sensor was unplugged, so there is an open circuit/break somewhere.

    As he looked at the wire going to the sensor, it is the wrong color compared to the diagrams for an 04' GTP. He went to the ECU and could not find that colored wire at all. He opened the harness close to the sensor and discovered a barrel connector, where it switches from one color to another. So now he is in the process of trying to figure out what wire color they are on one end, and what color they are on the other end.

    Having these different wire colors on each end really sucks! I will be paying for their Labor at $110 an hour just to be able to then test the harness


    Danyel MSG #699, 05-16-2017 12:37 PM
          Didn't you buy that harness from someone?? They may know what color config they used.... just an idea.. hope ya get the old girl on the road ASAP...
    regards

    Danyel



    JohnWPB MSG #700, 05-16-2017 04:56 PM
         
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Danyel:

    Didn't you buy that harness from someone?? They may know what color config they used.... just an idea.. hope ya get the old girl on the road ASAP...
    regards


    It is a FieroFlyer wiring harness. He offered to look at it, and make any repairs for free. The problem is, the car is at the shop, and the labor cost to take the whole harness all off of the car, and ship it and the computer to Canada, and wait to get it back, and the labor to re-install it all again.... it would probably cost more than the shop just fixing everything.

    The harness looks great from the outside. However once you start to take the tape off, it is a jumble of all different wires connected with barrel connectors EVERYWHERE. One would think that running a single wire from the computer to the destination would be the way to do it. Just about all the wires in this harness are cut and spliced back together once the tape and loom is removed.

    The mechanic started to take the tape off of the wiring harness, and many of the wires that were attached by barrel crimp connectors, just came out of the connectors. They were not fastened / crimped well, and just the tension of taking the tape off the harness is pulling the wires out of the connectors. Next, he was able to find the yellow wire that is SUPPOSED to go to the temperature sensor, it was somehow routed to the A/C pressure switch.

    The 2 wires that are supposed to be connected to the temperature switch are supposed to be yellow and..... damn, cant remember the other color. Anyhow, the yellow is the correct one on the computer end, just that it routed to the A/C pressure switch mid harness.

    He is still trying to find where a couple of the other wires from the computer ended up. When he is done, he tells me he will solder and shrink tube the wires correctly.


    After taking off the tape and wire loom, he found the yellow wire coming from the computer, meant to go to the temp sensor, it was going to the A/C pressure sensor instead:


    Here are couple wires that came out of their barrel connectors when taking the tape off of the harness:


    Again, I just can not seem to catch a break on this car! Any other person would purchase a harness, get the engine in, and start it up no problem. Not this F'n car! Brand new wiring harness is all screwed up and wires going to wrong sensors ect.....

    AHe says he is not getting correct readings on a few more wires, so he is sure a few other wires are going to the wrong sensors from the computer.

    [This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-16-2017).]

    Steel MSG #701, 05-16-2017 07:06 PM
          It's pretty common knowledge he splices the 3800 factory engine harness into the Fiero C203 and C500 connectors.