Chrysler 3.5 HO V6 swap
Topic started by: seajai, Date: 08-03-2012 06:21 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000139.html


seajai MSG #1, 08-03-2012 06:21 PM
      Got my engine swap car today.



It's a 2003 300m with the 250hp HO v6 and an auto transaxle.



This swap has been talked about in the past, but as far as I can tell, has yet to be done. I was curious about a longitudinal setup, and the thread started by engine man a while back got me thinking. I like the Audi V8 he is doing but I want an automatic, and that engine never came with a non-quattro auto trans so the computer stuff was going to be a pain.

The 3.5 measures 19" from cam cover to bell housing flange, and the trans is 5.5" from bell housing to axle center-line, for a total of 24.5". This is pretty close to the firewall-to-axle measurement in the stock engine bay so I think it's going to be a good fit. I am currently researching my computer options. I would like to use the factory computers, I can get the immobilizer programming removed from the factory pcm. I'm not sure how the bcm and pcm will react when I start removing modules from the bus though. I have been unable to find the needed info on the subject so I am just going to start experimenting on my car and see what happens. The backup plan is a megasquirt / megashift setup.
This is uncharted territory and sure to be a challenge, but I love a good challenge.


Ang84Indy MSG #2, 08-03-2012 06:52 PM
      This sounds interesting, I'm going to be watching this thread.

Macs86GT MSG #3, 08-03-2012 08:17 PM
      I have a Concorde with that engine in it and it makes it move quite nicely. It would really move a fiero nice and has a smooth power band.

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #4, 08-03-2012 09:02 PM
      First time I saw that engine in a friends car I was wondering about fitting it to a Fiero. Wish it came with a manual, but I guess can't have everything.

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #5, 08-04-2012 01:34 AM
      Ive changed a few of the failure prone 2.7s for customers and every one of them had a quirky transmission that ends up failing. If yours is the same trans I would beware they also have apretty high failure rate. That being said the 2.7engine is a pretty powerful v6 for its size, I can imagine what a 3.5 would be like.

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #6, 08-04-2012 01:49 AM
      First time I saw that engine in a friends car I was wondering about fitting it to a Fiero. Wish it came with a manual, but I guess can't have everything.

Reallybig MSG #7, 08-04-2012 04:42 AM
      Just looked up some interesting related info here:

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/35.html


Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #8, 08-04-2012 01:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

I've changed a few of the failure prone 2.7's for customers, and everyone of them had quirky transmissions that ended up failing. If you have the same trans, I would beware, as they have a pretty high failure rate.
I edited your post to fix the errors in your grammer


Really? You're kidding right?? I've been a Gold Certified Chrysler tech for 14yrs, and have been at a dealership since this transmission came out. And in that time, I can count on two hands and a foot, how many times I have seen the 42LE fail. It is used behind all the LH bodies, as well as the Prowler and in my professional opinion is one of the best transmissions Chrysler has used (within recent years, the torque flight not included). I have 265k on my 99 Intrepid and it has had the pan opened once to change the filter. And my mother-in-laws Intrepid has over 165k on it, and I have never touched that trans either. -Jason

[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 08-04-2012).]

pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #9, 08-04-2012 02:26 PM
      L:ets just put it this way, My 1st time over 100 MPH (more like 140MPH) was inb my dads chrysler 300M special. Very very powerful engine and also with the right exhaust it sounds like an infinity.. Now jayson... Lol I do have to admit we have been through 2 transmissions in the 300M with now 145K on it.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 08-04-2012).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #10, 08-04-2012 03:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:
Really? You're kidding right?? I've been a Gold Certified Chrysler tech for 14yrs, and have been at a dealership since this transmission came out. And in that time, I can count on two hands and a foot, how many times I have seen the 42LE fail. It is used behind all the LH bodies, as well as the Prowler and in my professional opinion is one of the best transmissions Chrysler has used (within recent years, the torque flight not included). I have 265k on my 99 Intrepid and it has had the pan opened once to change the filter. And my mother-in-laws Intrepid has over 165k on it, and I have never touched that trans either. -Jason



Thats nice that you havent had any problems.The 3 that I worked on, none newer than a 2000 had transmissions that either would fail to shift out of second or fail to shift at all. Which caused the engine to rev high in combination with the poor oiling oil sludge problem the 2.7 had which would cause the engine to fail with a rod knock or windowing the block .I ended up changing the engines and transmissions in all. Its been a few years since I researched what trans was used with that engine. IIRC there were several different ones used but I could be wrong. I did a little research at the time and found that there were tons of complaints and Chrysler was dragging their feet on covering the losses .It seemed there was class action lawsuits against Chryler on these issues. Im not trying to knock the engine or trans because I had thought about using the combo for a Fiero swap as well although I was planning on doing a 2.7 rather than a 3.5 which I am not aware of having any problems, engine wise.

To add to my experience with these engines I just looked up some pictures I had taken during a trans engine replacement and it was a 2000 Concorde with the 3.2 that had a messed up trans and a trashed engine. I dissasembled the junked engine and found the sludge in the bottom of the pan along with a bad timing chain and of course a trashed rod.

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 08-04-2012).]

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #11, 08-04-2012 03:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


I am currently researching my computer options. I would like to use the factory computers, I can get the immobilizer programming removed from the factory pcm. I'm not sure how the bcm and pcm will react when I start removing modules from the bus though. I have been unable to find the needed info on the subject so I am just going to start experimenting on my car and see what happens. The backup plan is a megasquirt / megashift setup.


The PCM may complain that it is not receiveing bus messages. But, it won't or shouldn't affect the starting or operation of the car (depending on VTSS and SKIM info)...Technically speaking, you should be able to use the PCM (NGC 4) controller on it's own. I don't know what your going to do for a speedo option as that is a bused signal from the TCM/PCM to the cluster and ABS. Also emission DTC's will be an issue, returnless fuel system and it's associated pump module..Lots of stuff to think about...-Jason


seajai MSG #12, 08-04-2012 04:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:


The PCM may complain that it is not receiveing bus messages. But, it won't or shouldn't affect the starting or operation of the car (depending on VTSS and SKIM info)...Technically speaking, you should be able to use the PCM (NGC 4) controller on it's own. I don't know what your going to do for a speedo option as that is a bused signal from the TCM/PCM to the cluster and ABS. Also emission DTC's will be an issue, returnless fuel system and it's associated pump module..Lots of stuff to think about...-Jason


There are a couple different places that can take my PCM and remove SKIM, so I think that part will be easy. Because the Autostick feature shows the gear selected in the speedo, I was thinking about using the factory speedo and tach and trying to make it work in a different housing, so I would need to retain the BCM for that. (That may not be as easy.) My only concern is a "no bus" error message in the cluster display if I remove the other modules from the bus. All the modules on this car are routed through the BCM so my plan was to just start removing modules from the bus and see if anything hiccups. (that's the nice part of having a complete running car). I downloaded a factory service manual for the LH cars, so I have all the wiring diagrams and data bus info I need to experiment. I hadn't thought about the returnless fuel line, but the fuel pump and level sender are run through the BCM so I may have to adapt the entire 300m fuel system in to the Fiero's. If all else fails, I'll go with Megasquirt for the engine and Megashift for the trans.


seajai MSG #13, 08-04-2012 10:16 PM
      Disconnected as many modules on the PCI BUS as I could, no ses light, no error messages. Looks like I may be in luck.

Silicoan86 (jcoan86@yahoo.com) MSG #14, 08-04-2012 11:35 PM
      Nice to see you've decided to try something unique! I hope to see it at one of the local meets when it's complete.

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #15, 08-06-2012 12:53 PM
      For the fuel, can't your just use a C5 Vette fuel filter/pressure regulator? Its designed for two fuel lines in (Feed/Return) and one line out to the injectors?

Rob


carbon MSG #16, 08-06-2012 04:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Silicoan86:

Nice to see you've decided to try something unique! I hope to see it at one of the local meets when it's complete.


+1


seajai MSG #17, 08-06-2012 07:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

For the fuel, can't your just use a C5 Vette fuel filter/pressure regulator? Its designed for two fuel lines in (Feed/Return) and one line out to the injectors?

Rob


The fuel pump is part of an in-tank module with the pump, regulator, and level sensor all in one and is set to run at 58 psi +/- 5 psi and there is only 1 line out to the engine. Once I get the tanks out, I may try to make the 300m module work in the Fiero tank, which would simplify things greatly. Just depends on the depth of tanks I suppose and if I can get the Chrysler lock ring off and welded to the Fiero tank.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 08-06-2012).]

Khw (i3ite_ivie@msn.com) MSG #18, 08-07-2012 12:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Just depends on the depth of tanks I suppose and if I can get the Chrysler lock ring off and welded to the Fiero tank.



If the tank in the Chrysler isn't plastic. The 95 Neon I have is a metal tank and the 97 Neon is plastic.


seajai MSG #19, 11-01-2012 12:52 AM
      The summer house projects are done, which means I can finally get to MY project!

Donor and recipient are in the operating room:



The teardown is underway! I've been looking forward to this for 2 months, this is gonna be fun!





TheRealShadowX (therealshadowx@gmail.com) MSG #20, 11-01-2012 12:53 AM
      COOL!!!



FFIEROFRED (frwihall@aol.com) MSG #21, 11-01-2012 04:08 PM
      years ago, their was a car that used that drive line. It was called a "Indy Street" looked like a indy car, was street legal. It is not around any more. Should be a interesting car when you get it done.

rogergarrison (fastandred@hotmail.com) MSG #22, 11-01-2012 04:08 PM
      My o5 Sebring has the 2.7 auto. Its getting close to 100K on it now and has plenty of power for a small v6. I havent had the first problem with the engine or transmission. Runs perfectly and dont use a drop of oil between changes. The whole car has been great. All its had done since new is new heater fan resistor, and a few batteries. Its still got the original brakes and tires that are in excellent condition. Suspension is still solid. Most of my driving is freeway. It gets awesome gas mileage too.

seajai MSG #23, 11-04-2012 11:14 PM
      Was a busy weekend but managed to get the engine out and on the ground. It was a fairly straightforward job with just a few main wiring connectors and a couple hoses to disconnect. Started removing the interior to harvest the wiring harnesses I will need. Pulled the seats and found about $10 bucks in change and a happy meal full of french fries and other foodstuffs. You can tell a lot about a person by the stuff you find under the seats.

Next it's the Fiero's turn...... Think I'm gonna pull the rear body panels off for better access and to run my new harness. Plus I can fix my leaky "D" filler panels. Gotta cut out the bottom of the trunk to make room for the transmission and exhaust too. Any pointers to make it look professional? The idea is to keep the top half and just have a shallow trunk.












seajai MSG #24, 11-09-2012 01:29 AM
      More progress today, the engine is out.





Started stripping the cradle in preparation for modification. One interesting find was a bent long bolt where the lower arms attach to the left side knuckle, the holes are still nice and round though.



The plan for the weekend is to clear the engine bay of all the wiring, vacuum lines, and insulation. Get the stripped down cradle bolted back in and start the measuring and fitting process. Maybe even get the trunk cut out if there's time. More pics to come.....




Blacktree (m.blacktree@gmail.com) MSG #25, 11-09-2012 02:00 AM
      That longitudinal FWD layout looks interesting. I wonder if those cars ever came with a manual transmission?

carbon MSG #26, 11-09-2012 09:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

That longitudinal FWD layout looks interesting. I wonder if those cars ever came with a manual transmission?


Nope...


TheRealShadowX (therealshadowx@gmail.com) MSG #27, 11-09-2012 10:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

That longitudinal FWD layout looks interesting. I wonder if those cars ever came with a manual transmission?


Acura Legends utilize a similar layout, and they were availible with a manual trans.


BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #28, 11-09-2012 10:59 AM
      New and interesting swaps... I love it!

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #29, 11-09-2012 11:36 AM
      If your not going to use them, I'd like to know if you would sell the P/S lines from the rack to the pump from the LH body (and as long as their not rusted,destroyed, or beyond use!).

Keep up the good work, I'm interested in this project. -Jason


diabloroadster MSG #30, 11-09-2012 02:44 PM
      Can you do me a favor? Measure the front of the crank pulley to the c/v axle. I want to see how long this drivetrain is just for future reference.
Thanks!


seajai MSG #31, 11-09-2012 06:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:

If your not going to use them, I'd like to know if you would sell the P/S lines from the rack to the pump from the LH body (and as long as their not rusted,destroyed, or beyond use!).

Keep up the good work, I'm interested in this project. -Jason


PM sent



seajai MSG #32, 11-09-2012 06:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by diabloroadster:

Can you do me a favor? Measure the front of the crank pulley to the c/v axle. I want to see how long this drivetrain is just for future reference.
Thanks!


Front of the crank pulley to the axle centerline is 26.5". Subtract 2" for pulley depth for timing cover to axle centerline.

Overall length of engine and transmission is 44.5" from pulley to rear transmission mount.

Track width from wheel bearing hub flange to hub flange is 64.25". For comparison, the stock 88 Fiero rear suspension is 62.5" flange to flange.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 11-09-2012).]

diabloroadster MSG #33, 11-09-2012 08:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


Front of the crank pulley to the axle centerline is 26.5". Subtract 2" for pulley depth for timing cover to axle centerline.

Overall length of engine and transmission is 44.5" from pulley to rear transmission mount.

Track width from wheel bearing hub flange to hub flange is 64.25". For comparison, the stock 88 Fiero rear suspension is 62.5" flange to flange.



Thanks! That would in my Diablo with all kinds of room to spare. Its nice to know just in case another project comes along....


seajai MSG #34, 11-11-2012 07:13 PM
      Well, it's been a productive weekend.

Initially, I had trimmed the well area of the trunk to fit the engine on Saturday, today I removed the seam sealer and drilled out the spot welds and removed the entire well. The plan is to weld in a flat plate to make a shallow trunk.

Before:



After:



During the initial mock-up, I found the crank pulley hit the lower firewall bump out area which didn't allow the engine to go as far forward as I wanted. I trimmed an area to allow for some pulley clearance and let the engine move a bit more forward. I will need to trim a little more on each side to make room for the alternator and A/C compressor. After everything is fit, I will box in the areas I cut out to strengthen any weakness I may have caused by cutting.



The cradle was temporarily braced to allow the front and rear cross-members to be cut out.



So here it is, the engine is mocked up in place and the cradle is in. Front and rear crossmembers will be built with everything in place.





I think it looks pretty damn sweet!











I installed the suspension to check clearances, it all looks good, even at full extension. There is about a 3" offset in the axle centerline from trans to knuckle. The drivers side axle looks good but the passenger side axle is shorter because the differential is on that side which makes the angle seem a bit too much for my liking. The track width if the 300 is about 1 3/4" wider than the Fiero which means my axles are a little too long, so I'm still working on a plan for that. The other issue is the upper radiator hose water neck and part of the intake are tight to the firewall. I think I am going to box in the area where the ECM used to be to allow for clearance and maybe "massage" the firewall on each side where the cam covers hit. This should give me another 1" to move the engine forward, further reducing my axle offset angle. The side effect of this is my wiring and cables may need to be re-routed which may be a bit of a challenge.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 11-11-2012).]

diabloroadster MSG #35, 11-11-2012 10:54 PM
      Looking good !!!!
I wouldnt even mess with the factory engine management, Megasquirt all the way...


hercimer01 MSG #36, 11-12-2012 01:57 AM
      This could get ugly. My boss just showed up on day with this to get it out of his garage, he said he wants me to put it in his concord, but has no money. Its supposed to be low mileage. I like the dual throttle bodies.
He should know better by now that it could end up in one of my cars.
Ill be watching close! Good luck!



diabloroadster MSG #37, 11-12-2012 06:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

This could get ugly. My boss just showed up on day with this to get it out of his garage, he said he wants me to put it in his concord, but has no money. Its supposed to be low mileage. I like the dual throttle bodies.
He should know better by now that it could end up in one of my cars.
Ill be watching close! Good luck!





what did that motor come out of??


hercimer01 MSG #38, 11-12-2012 06:40 PM
      It came out of a 96 Chrysler LHS. I beleive its a Concorde. I haven't seen the car.

diabloroadster MSG #39, 11-12-2012 07:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

It came out of a 96 Chrysler LHS. I beleive its a Concorde. I haven't seen the car.


So is the intake/dual throttle bodies custom or aftermarket? I never seen one of those engines with dual throttle bodies.....


Brian T. Brown (btbrown94@aol.com) MSG #40, 11-12-2012 08:09 PM
      That duel throttle body 3.5 is the first gen, the single throttle body 3.5 is the second gen.



Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #41, 11-12-2012 10:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


PM sent


PM replied to. -Jason


seajai MSG #42, 11-12-2012 11:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Brian T. Brown:

That duel throttle body 3.5 is the first gen, the single throttle body 3.5 is the second gen.



The first gen 3.5 is rated at 217 HP. The 2nd gen is rated at 234 HP and the H.O. version vin "G" code is rated and 253 HP.


eljibaro127 (eljibaro127@gmail.com) MSG #43, 11-13-2012 08:08 PM
      Quick question, How do you plan on getting to the belts in the future or replace water pump, alternator, timing belt? But looks like a good challenge. I wish you the best results with this project. already subscribed

seajai MSG #44, 11-13-2012 10:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by eljibaro127:

Quick question, How do you plan on getting to the belts in the future or replace water pump, alternator, timing belt? But looks like a good challenge. I wish you the best results with this project. already subscribed


I am going to have to move the alternator and A/C compressor down low and closer to the block because of clearance issues with the firewall and hinge boxes. The waterpump is inside the timing covers and is driven by the timing belt. I will be replacing both before final engine install. I am making an access panel in the firewall where the ECM used to live to get to a couple things but a waterpump failure will result in me having to drop the engine out to repair. I'll have some more pics to post later in the week.


Chris Hodson MSG #45, 11-14-2012 10:19 PM
      As much as I dislike Chryslers... This is awesome and I look forward to seeing this move! Good luck!

rogergarrison (fastandred@hotmail.com) MSG #46, 11-15-2012 07:23 PM
      Ive heard the water pump on my 2.7 is a real pita too. Luckily its still going good (knock on wood). Im getting close to 100K now.

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #47, 11-16-2012 04:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by diabloroadster:

Looking good !!!!
I wouldnt even mess with the factory engine management, Megasquirt all the way...


Megasquirt is only an engine management system. It can't shift an auto trans and I know of no stand alone trans controller that can shift this unit.. I believe that the installer has no choice but to try and work with the factory OBDII PCM. If he is using the OEM PCM on a matched powertain it should work but there would be many codes to delete and getting the VATS out might not be easy. You've got to give credit to anyone that attempts a swap like this.When all is said and done he should get have similar performanceto to a GM 3900.



DaveC MSG #48, 11-16-2012 04:55 PM
      This looks exciting! Keep at it seajai, and I'm sure you'll work everything out. Anything's possible with enough determination.

diabloroadster MSG #49, 11-16-2012 04:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


Megasquirt is only an engine management system. It can't shift an auto trans and I know of no stand alone trans controller that can shift this unit.. I believe that the installer has no choice but to try and work with the factory OBDII PCM. If he is using the OEM PCM on a matched powertain it should work but there would be many codes to delete and getting the VATS out might not be easy. You've got to give credit to anyone that attempts a swap like this.When all is said and done he should get have similar performanceto to a GM 3900.


I thought I saw this same drivetrain in a kit car project a while back and it was running megasquirt/megashift. I know it will control the 41te, so Im betting that there is someone out there that could make it work. A microsquirt/megashift combo would be a sweet place to start. One never knows what direction the builder has in mind, it very might well be nothing about performance and all about doing something different.....



seajai MSG #50, 11-16-2012 08:26 PM
      I was looking into using the megasquirt and megashift to control everything. The 41TE is pretty much the same electrically as the 42LE so it would be an easy deal. The problem with the megasquirt is controlling coil-on-plug ignition. There was supposed to be a sequencer in development for that but it didn't look like it was going to come to fruition. Also, I have read somewhere that the megasquirt fuel injector MOSFET's can overheat and burn out.

In 2002 Chrysler combined the TCM and the PCM so I only have 1 computer to deal with on mine. The great thing about having a complete running donor car was I could do some experimenting and determine that, even with all of the other modules disconnected from the CAN BUS, the engine ran fine and the cluster still worked and I didn't get the dreaded "NO BUS" error message. So in the end, I have decided to use the factory computer, it should work fine for me, and there are a few places that can remove the immobilizer programming as well as remove traction control, etc for less than what a stand-alone system would cost me.

My main drive on the project was just to do something that has never been done before. Although, with 253HP and 250 ft lbs of torque, the Chrysler engine should make the Fiero scoot pretty well.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 11-16-2012).]

diabloroadster MSG #51, 11-16-2012 09:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

I was looking into using the megasquirt and megashift to control everything. The 41TE is pretty much the same electrically as the 42LE so it would be an easy deal. The problem with the megasquirt is controlling coil-on-plug ignition. There was supposed to be a sequencer in development for that but it didn't look like it was going to come to fruition. Also, I have read somewhere that the megasquirt fuel injector MOSFET's can overheat and burn out.

In 2002 Chrysler combined the TCM and the PCM so I only have 1 computer to deal with on mine. The great thing about having a complete running donor car was I could do some experimenting and determine that, even with all of the other modules disconnected from the CAN BUS, the engine ran fine and the cluster still worked and I didn't get the dreaded "NO BUS" error message. So in the end, I have decided to use the factory computer, it should work fine for me, and there are a few places that can remove the immobilizer programming as well as remove traction control, etc for less than what a stand-alone system would cost me.

My main drive on the project was just to do something that has never been done before. Although, with 253HP and 250 ft lbs of torque, the Chrysler engine should make the Fiero scoot pretty well.



If you cant get the factory PCM working let me know, I can help you get a megasquirt /msd6010 together that should work with the coil on plug setup. Im currently working with a Microsquirt2 only running both the fuel and spark on a LS1 off the stock crank trigger & waste spark. But my experience (very little) is only with LS engines, although I know some folks that are genius's with this stuff.
Good luck with your project!


engine man (fieroa8@gmail.com) MSG #52, 11-17-2012 05:01 AM
      seajai great project way to think outside the box I will be keeping my eye on your progress


seajai MSG #53, 11-21-2012 07:22 PM
      Making a little more progress in the fabrication of new crossmembers and engine mounts. Here is a pic of the new front crossmember tacked in place, it comes off of the angled front part of the cradle at a 90deg angle and has two 15deg angles to get around the front of the oil pan. It is made using 1/8" wall 2x4 square tubing.



The engine mount plates are cut from 1/4" thick plate and have a lap joint on the crossmember and are butt welded to the cradle. I will be adding gussets when I remove the cradle for final welding.



The transmission mount is about 8" back from the end of the cradle. I felt that it was too far back and I didn't want to cantilever a crossmember back and around to pick up the load of the transmission thinking that it may sag over time. So my solution was to make a separate trans crossmember and attach it to the rear frame rails. The bottom of the rail was plated as well as the crossmember and the two are bolted together. This will allow me to remove the transmission if needed without removing the engine or the cradle.





I'm open to suggestions on this part, I want to tie the rear portion of the cradle into my new crossmember. I was thinking about a couple pieces of 2x2 square tubing set in at a 45deg angle from the lower end of the cradle to the transmission crossmember. These would be plated as well so the crossmember can be removed. Do you think that would pick up the cornering loads on the cradle properly? I would like to avoid having to make an arch over the top of the transmission. I have the room but am concerned about having enough room for mufflers and exhaust, but ultimately want to do whatever is best.











Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #54, 11-21-2012 09:52 PM
      I like it! -Jason

Hardpact (hardpact1973@aol.com) MSG #55, 11-22-2012 07:43 AM
      Very interesting !! Just one question ... Looks like your welding the cross member in are you welding that to the bolt in cradle ?? Cause the back looks like your welding it to the car if you are how are you going to remove the motor ? This looks like a great swap hope this works good !!

~Tom



seajai MSG #56, 11-22-2012 09:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hardpact:

Very interesting !! Just one question ... Looks like your welding the cross member in are you welding that to the bolt in cradle ?? Cause the back looks like your welding it to the car if you are how are you going to remove the motor ? This looks like a great swap hope this works good !!

~Tom



The transmission cross member is bolted to the body so it is removable. I made two 1/4" thick plates, drilled and bolted them together and welded the nut to the top plate, I then unbolted the plates. After the lower plate was welded to the car, I reinstalled the top plate to the cross member to align it. The cross member was positioned in the car and the top plates were tacked to the rails. I pulled out the bolts and removed the cross member, and the top plates were finish welded to the body. There are four 10 x 1.5MM bolts holding it in place.



I gotta give a huge thanks to my brother for helping me on this phase of the project. His equipment and welding experience was the only way it was going to happen. I'm a woodworker, so I have design and fab skills, just not with metal. And my welding skills, well, let's just say I need a little more practice.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 11-22-2012).]

VF1Skullangel (vf1skullangel@gmail.com) MSG #57, 11-22-2012 10:21 AM
      I wonder if the 3.3 out of the dodge intrepid will work. I had one and those were bullet proof engines. To bad the Transmissions where weak on those cars. No matter how much you take care of them they where junk.

seajai MSG #58, 11-25-2012 07:36 PM
      Got the last of the cradle fabrication done this weekend. The final weight of the cradle with the extra transmission cross member attached is 95 pounds, I think I may have overbuilt things a bit but I didn't want any problems. I don't have a hanging scale to weigh both engines but I think the all aluminum 3.5 is probably less than the all cast iron 2.8 so the extra 30 lbs of cradle weight isn't a big deal.

Finished cradle



The Chrysler transmission is quite large with a deep sump so the only way I could see to tie the back of the cradle together was to triangulate a couple mounts into the transmission cross member.







A couple shots from the back and underneath showing the mounts and brackets.





So this is what the engine looks like in it's final position bolted to the modified cradle.



Next up: The alternator and A/C compressor won't fit in their factory positions because of interference with the hinge boxes and firewall so I am looking at moving them down and in. I may end up making some custom "ZZP power log" style tubular exhaust manifolds to make that happen though. I need to lay under the car and stare at things for a while to assess my options first.

I'm pretty excited to have this first step done, it was my first time doing metal fabrication and I was surprised at how time consuming it was.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 11-25-2012).]

engine man (fieroa8@gmail.com) MSG #59, 11-25-2012 07:59 PM
      nice job and i under stand about laying there and staring at it you have to get a mental picture of how it will all go together

Hardpact (hardpact1973@aol.com) MSG #60, 11-25-2012 09:42 PM
      Sorry was hard to see the bolt !! Great job in the design !!



carbon MSG #61, 11-26-2012 08:16 AM
      Awesome work man! Can't wait to see this in person... I had no idea you were this crazy when I met you last summer.

seajai MSG #62, 11-27-2012 08:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

Awesome work man! Can't wait to see this in person... I had no idea you were this crazy when I met you last summer.


LOL......Crazy..... I was just thinking that the other day when I was standing the garage staring at the car and going over the list of things I still need to do. I sometimes have a tendency to jump in with both feet and worry about the depth of the water once I'm in it.



engine man (fieroa8@gmail.com) MSG #63, 11-27-2012 10:39 AM
      It's only crazy if you can't pull it off but it is genius when you do make it work and i say it is gona be genius

gtxbullet MSG #64, 11-27-2012 04:55 PM
      looking good!!!

at first it sounded weird, but then seeing the engine and trans...it actually looks like a pretty decent swap to do.

keep the pictures coming.

you have another follower!


chetw77cruiser MSG #65, 11-27-2012 07:30 PM
      I read earlier that you are looking at the megasquirt for engine control but were not sure about COP (coil-on-plug) compatibility. If I remember correctly, the Chrysler COP has an igniter built in that is controlled by a TTL signal. If so, the Megasquirt3 and MS3X add-on boards will control sequential injection as well as ignition. Add in a megasquirt GPIO board or microsquirt with appropriate Megashift code, you have a complete system that will control your engine and trans combo. Communication between the two is by can bus, so only a few wires to string between the two. If you need any help or more information, let me know.

Keep tuning my friends.


seajai MSG #66, 12-01-2012 10:40 PM
      It was a busy week at work so the garage was silent all week, but got a little more accomplished today. I wanted to know for sure what my offset was going to be on my axles, so I re-installed the suspension and used a jack to compress it to ride height. I used a T-square clamped to the knuckle to extend the axle center line back to the transmission, the offset comes in at 2.5". I figured out the approximate pivot points of the axle shaft in the joint and measured the length for the axle. The right side comes in at 13" long, figure that into the 2.5" offset and you get an 11 deg C/V joint angle. The left side axle is 18" long which gives a 7.5 deg C/V angle. I'm thinking the 11 deg angle on the rt side is going to be ok, the front C/V joints on my 1 ton Chevy pickup run at about an 8 deg angle, and they have 216,000 miles on them.



I also wanted to know the weight of the 2.8 eng/trans as well as the 3.5 eng/trans. I was able to borrow a hanging scale from a neighbor who works for a crane outfit. Both engines weigh in at just a little bit over 550 pounds. So even though the Chrysler engine is larger than the 2.8, the all aluminum construction evens things out.

Got the engine back out of the car now and started working on alternator and A/C mounting. I'll have some pics of that soon.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-01-2012).]

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #67, 12-04-2012 07:18 AM
      Still watching "bump"

seajai MSG #68, 12-04-2012 09:12 AM
      Still working on mounting the alternator down low and in on the block. I was able to use an existing hole on the timing cover for the pivot point, and I'm half way through fabrication on a bracket for the other side. Hopefully have some pics soon.

seajai MSG #69, 12-08-2012 07:26 PM
      Finally got my alternator mount done.

The factory alt mounting was up high on the timing cover, but that spot was too tight to the firewall for me to leave it there.



This is a pic of the area where the factory P/S pump lived. I removed the bracket and installed a stud in the lower mounting hole. I also had to install an elbow for the oil pressure switch to make room for the alt in its new home.



A pic of the alternator in its new location.



The problem here is the factory belt was tensioned by means of an adjustable pulley on a bracket but I don't have room for one. So I need to make the alt adjustable. Normally the pivot point of the alt is the double leg side and the adjustable side is the single leg. I had to do that backwards because the battery stud would have hit the oil filter the other way. Here is a pic of my adjuster assembly:



The other issue with this setup is, as the alt is pulled up to tension the belt, it wants to deflect outward. This means I had to make a bracket to support the alt and keep it in line.



Luckily I had a couple of engine mount bracket bolts down low. I removed the factory bolts and installed a couple of studs I had left over from a 3800 Regal project. (It pays to save bolts)



So here is a pic of the alt with the adjuster bracket installed.



Now with the alt in place, I needed a new drive belt. I used an old belt, cut it and wrapped it around the pulleys, and bolted it back together in its new length. I took that to my local O'Reilly's and measured it on the belt tool. After a bit of trial and error, I had my new Gates 6 rib belt.



Here is the finished product in place and my new belt installed . I am able to tension the belt from underneath with a 3/4" socket.









BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #70, 12-08-2012 08:45 PM
      Now someone needs to do a Subaru H6 swap!

seajai MSG #71, 12-08-2012 08:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

Now someone needs to do a Subaru H6 swap!


Already looking into a WRX 2.0 turbo swap for my next one. The wife looked at me kinda sideways when I mentioned it to her though. I almost got the feeling she was questioning my sanity



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #72, 12-09-2012 07:38 AM
      Very cool project. Do yourself a favor and make sure the alternator is good before reinstalling the cradle. Peace of mind insurance. Don't ask me how I know...

Bob


seajai MSG #73, 12-09-2012 09:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Very cool project. Do yourself a favor and make sure the alternator is good before reinstalling the cradle. Peace of mind insurance. Don't ask me how I know...

Bob


Thanks. That's a great idea, I hadn't thought about testing the alternator. The power steering pump pulley was broken when I bought the car so the belt was off which means I wasn't able to make sure the alternator was good before pulling the engine. My local O'Reilly's tests 'em, I'll hafta bring it in and have them run it for me.



engine man (fieroa8@gmail.com) MSG #74, 12-09-2012 11:29 AM
      your making great progress and it looks great

sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #75, 12-09-2012 12:28 PM
      Wish I'd been reading this a couple of weeks ago when the hinge boxes became an issue. Someone on the forum removed them and moved the hinge mount to a horizontal position below the window. I have a link to it on a different computer. It looked great! Got all that clutter off the firewall and opened things up a lot.

[This message has been edited by sspeedstreet (edited 12-09-2012).]

seajai MSG #76, 12-09-2012 01:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

Wish I'd been reading this a couple of weeks ago when the hinge boxes became an issue. Someone on the forum removed them and moved the hinge mount to a horizontal position below the window. I have a link to it on a different computer. It looked great! Got all that clutter off the firewall and opened things up a lot.



Found the thread, very interesting. The hinge boxes turned out to be only half the problem, the firewall is in the way too, so the accessories had to be moved. I would like to completely smooth out the firewall so I may end up doing the modification as well.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-09-2012).]

sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #77, 12-09-2012 01:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Found the thread, very interesting. The hinge boxes turned out to be only half the problem, the firewall is in the way too, so the accessories had to be moved. I would like to completely smooth out the firewall so I may end up doing the modification as well.



Can you post the link? I searched also, but didn't find it.


fieroguru MSG #78, 12-09-2012 02:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:
Someone on the forum removed them and moved the hinge mount to a horizontal position below the window. I have a link to it on a different computer. It looked great! Got all that clutter off the firewall and opened things up a lot.



Link:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/085829.html


sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #79, 12-09-2012 04:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Link:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/085829.html


Thanks, guru!


seajai MSG #80, 12-09-2012 09:41 PM
      Good progress this weekend. Got the A/C compressor mounted today. I decided to use the Fiero A/C compressor because the Chrysler system was electronic and would have required a lot of extra work to make it function. Here are a couple pics of the A/C bracket and a pic of the finished accessories.



I was able to re-use the factory belt tensioner adjustment screw.



The finished product





Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #81, 12-09-2012 11:08 PM
      Simple and functional, that's all it needs be. Good work. -Jason

Silicoan86 (jcoan86@yahoo.com) MSG #82, 12-10-2012 12:40 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:
Already looking into a WRX 2.0 turbo swap for my next one. The wife looked at me kinda sideways when I mentioned it to her though. I almost got the feeling she was questioning my sanity


THIS would be awesome. I've always talked about doing that swap myself, and even spent time in the garage measuring with the two cars next to each other. Someday...

[This message has been edited by Silicoan86 (edited 12-10-2012).]

seajai MSG #83, 12-16-2012 10:39 PM
      On to the fuel system. I got the fuel tank pulled out of the Chrysler and removed the fuel pump module.



The Chrysler pump module is a 2-piece plastic design where the bottom telescopes in and out of the top, which means it fits the depth of the Fiero tank perfectly. The Chrysler tank is molded plastic and the pump is held into the tank with a large nut that threads onto the tank. It's also about 1 1/2" larger in diameter which means the hole in the tank must be enlarged and a new way to secure the pump designed.



My solution: I had a couple steel rings CNC plasma cut to secure the pump.



Here is how much needs to be trimmed



To get the pump module to fit in the tank, I had to turn the float arm 180deg and install it in this orientation.



The problem was the wiring connector and pump outlet were pointing the wrong way. So by separating the halves of the pump module and turning the top 1 notch over, I was able to get it to point in the right direction.



The rings were drilled and tapped.



I split the lower ring so I could insert it into the tank and held it in place with a flat head bolt.

So here is the Chrysler pump installed in the Fiero tank, bolted in place with the lock ring. I need to make a gasket yet to seal it, and the outlet is too tall and will hit the tunnel, so I will need to build a "dome" into the tunnel to get it to fit.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-16-2012).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #84, 12-17-2012 11:56 AM
      Very cool...While you have it apart, verify the wiring from the connector to the fuel pump, especially if there is an internal connector. I just had to rework the connector for my Aztek fuel module because the terminals inside the module fret (corrode due to vibration). Simple to fix if you look ahead of time.

Bob


Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #85, 12-17-2012 12:08 PM
      There is an internal connector inside the module. But, speaking from experience, there have been no issues with corrosion on those.

The box, you thinking outside it. Nice work on the fuel pump, I was wondering how your were ging to do that. -Jason


Jims88 (stumpster60@gmail.com) MSG #86, 12-19-2012 09:14 PM
     
Very Impressive design build project; creative problem solving and outstanding fab work!!



seajai MSG #87, 12-19-2012 09:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jims88:


Very Impressive design build project; creative problem solving and outstanding fab work!!



Thank you for the compliments.



katatak MSG #88, 12-19-2012 10:05 PM
      Great to see someone thinking outside the box - nice work so far. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #89, 12-20-2012 06:10 PM
      This is going to be interesting. this motor was what made the prowelr kind of a laughing stock of chrysler. Gorgeous car but lacking in speed due to the weight and setup. i have the same motor in my dads car... real power house per say but the 300M setup is one heavy pig on this motor.. cant wait to see what it does in a lighter setup.

seajai MSG #90, 12-20-2012 07:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pontiackid86:

This is going to be interesting. this motor was what made the prowelr kind of a laughing stock of chrysler. Gorgeous car but lacking in speed due to the weight and setup. i have the same motor in my dads car... real power house per say but the 300M setup is one heavy pig on this motor.. cant wait to see what it does in a lighter setup.


According to 060calculator.com , 250 HP in a 2800lb car should give me a 5.5 second 0-60 time, I'm sure the real world time will be a little higher. What sold me on this swap, power-wise, was a ride in a 3800sc car that was pretty close to stock. I thought it was plenty quick with just enough power to make it a fun ride. Besides, I got size 15 feet, and too much HP underneath them just means more speeding tickets for me.


pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #91, 12-21-2012 03:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


According to 060calculator.com , 250 HP in a 2800lb car should give me a 5.5 second 0-60 time, I'm sure the real world time will be a little higher. What sold me on this swap, power-wise, was a ride in a 3800sc car that was pretty close to stock. I thought it was plenty quick with just enough power to make it a fun ride. Besides, I got size 15 feet, and too much HP underneath them just means more speeding tickets for me.



You wont be disappointed. My 1st time over 100 MPH was with one of these motors in my dads 300M special... and i was well above 100 in it...did not take long to get there.. if you can see about finding the tune for the 300M special... it will pump a little more power out of the car.. Also i see that you are using the LHS trans... how do you plan on incorporating the auto stick feature?


seajai MSG #92, 12-21-2012 09:18 AM
      For the autostick, I may just install the floor shifter from the 300 because it already has the hall effect switch built in, but I have been kicking around a paddle shifter idea as well. It will just depend on how much energy and ambition remain when I reach that part of the build.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-21-2012).]

seajai MSG #93, 12-26-2012 08:00 PM
      Reached another milestone in the project with the end of the major metal fabrication work.

First up, I had to cut a hole in the tunnel to make room for the fuel sender outlet and electrical connector. This required the fabrication of a small dome to cover it.



I bent it using a home-made brake, the results were ok but I thought it could be better. I had been looking around for a real finger brake, and luckily, I was able to score a Di-Acro 24" brake that can bend up to 16ga material, and I got it for a song. It's missing a couple fingers but I should be able to track them down.



So, armed with my new brake, I could fab up the pieces needed to box in the firewall. First off, the cam covers needed clearance on the top so I made a angled box for that.



This is where it needs to go:



Clamped in place:



Both sides spot welded in place:



The center area needed to be built out for radiator hose clearance and have a removable panel for access to the hose and other components.



View from the engine side:



The lower structure had been cut out to make room for the balancer and drive belts. That area was boxed in using 16ga material.

After all that I re-installed the engine/trans for what seemed to be the 10,000th time to check clearances, and all is good. So now its on to the other stuff like wiring and finding new spots to run the throttle and shift cables as well as a new pass through for the wiring harness. I talked with Arrington Performance in Martinsville VA, and they can do all the mods to my PCM for $350 bucks, so I think I'm good to go on that front.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 07-13-2014).]

85sliverGT (zymogenesyst@hotmail.com) MSG #94, 12-27-2012 07:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


According to 060calculator.com , 250 HP in a 2800lb car should give me a 5.5 second 0-60 time, I'm sure the real world time will be a little higher. What sold me on this swap, power-wise, was a ride in a 3800sc car that was pretty close to stock. I thought it was plenty quick with just enough power to make it a fun ride. Besides, I got size 15 feet, and too much HP underneath them just means more speeding tickets for me.


Seajai I forgot to tell you, when we went out in my car at the moa meet the car still had a few bugs to be worked out, it now pulls a bit harder like it should.

Your project is looking great! I had some doubts when you told me you were going to do this, but my doubts are long gone. Excellent problem solving going on here. Think she'll be ready for summer? I'd like a ride!

Blake


seajai MSG #95, 12-27-2012 08:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85sliverGT:


Seajai I forgot to tell you, when we went out in my car at the moa meet the car still had a few bugs to be worked out, it now pulls a bit harder like it should.

Your project is looking great! I had some doubts when you told me you were going to do this, but my doubts are long gone. Excellent problem solving going on here. Think she'll be ready for summer? I'd like a ride!

Blake


I'm hoping to be done by April-May sometime, barring anything major happening. Rides for sure!


mrfred8 MSG #96, 12-27-2012 08:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


I'm hoping to be done by April-May sometime, barring anything major happening. Rides for sure!


Are you going to bring it over to Frazee for the Shipman show, I would love to see this swap.



seajai MSG #97, 12-27-2012 09:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfred8:


Are you going to bring it over to Frazee for the Shipman show, I would love to see this swap.


Plan on attending a few more shows for 2013. Is there a date set yet for Frazee?


mrfred8 MSG #98, 12-27-2012 09:54 AM
      July 27th - http://www.tylershipmanmemorialcarshow.com/

seajai MSG #99, 12-27-2012 10:01 AM
      Thanks for the link, got it bookmarked.

Tony Kania MSG #100, 12-27-2012 11:07 AM
      Impressive fab skills.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #101, 12-27-2012 04:45 PM
     

I am very impressed.

Dave



tesmith66 MSG #102, 12-29-2012 08:10 AM
      Love the sheet metal work. You should convert that fuel pump bump into a door or removable panel for easy access. My Grand Prix had an access panel and it was very, very nice when I had to replace the pump.

Good work!!!



seajai MSG #103, 12-29-2012 09:10 AM
      Thanks everyone for the great compliments, it really means a lot to me. This is my first venture into metal work and I'm happy it's turning out as good as it is. I thought about making a fuel sender access door but the almost 6" diameter fuel sender would have required me to cut out too much of the structure of the tunnel.

seajai MSG #104, 12-30-2012 12:33 PM
      Got my cover made. Used rivnuts on the frame and attached the cover with #10-32 screws. Think I'll use foam weathertrip to seal it up.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-30-2012).]

seajai MSG #105, 12-30-2012 10:49 PM
      Got the throttle cable hooked up today. I ended up moving the cable pass-through over to the left about 9" from its original position, exiting just above the main cross beam.



The stock Fiero cable was about a foot too short and had a different end on it than the Chrysler, and the stock Chrysler cable was only 3' long. My solution, hook the two cables together. First off, I built a bracket to attach the cables. Second, I cut off the ends of the cables and housings. Luckily both the Chrysler and Fiero cable housings were .250" outside diameter which allowed me to use standard plumbing compression fittings to attach them to my bracket. My fittings came with a small tube designed to slide inside plastic line to keep it from collapsing, I used one of those to crimp the cables together and added some solder to strengthen the connection. I'll probably make a plastic cover to pretty it up a bit.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-30-2012).]

PBJ (pbjt@sympatico.ca) MSG #106, 12-31-2012 09:15 AM
      Was not sure what I was going to see when I first saw the thread title. I am impressed, very nicely done!

Pete



carnut122 MSG #107, 12-31-2012 10:34 AM
      I'm glad to see you're progressing.

fieroguru MSG #108, 12-31-2012 10:58 AM
      Way to think outside the box! I really like the firewall tweak and the throttle cable solution.

My only suggestion for the throttle cable setup would be to make the bracket from C shaped material (like 1x1 tubing with one side removed) with the top/bottom and visible side closed and the open part to access the cables placed along the valve cover. That way the bracket by design keeps the "mystery" hidden, but everything would still be accessible by removing the bracket. I would also suggest some cable slits at the threaded holes so if need be you can remove the cable from the bracket without having to undo their crimped/soldered connection.

Keep up the good work!


JohnWPB MSG #109, 12-31-2012 12:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:
Plan on attending a few more shows for 2013. Is there a date set yet for Frazee?


Wow, totally missed this thread till now. I just read every post, all 3 pages to catch up, and subscribed to the thread. Saying this is an ambitious build is an understatement! I do hope you bring it to Frazee in July, as I would love to see it in person!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-31-2012).]

seajai MSG #110, 12-31-2012 03:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Way to think outside the box! I really like the firewall tweak and the throttle cable solution.

My only suggestion for the throttle cable setup would be to make the bracket from C shaped material (like 1x1 tubing with one side removed) with the top/bottom and visible side closed and the open part to access the cables placed along the valve cover. That way the bracket by design keeps the "mystery" hidden, but everything would still be accessible by removing the bracket. I would also suggest some cable slits at the threaded holes so if need be you can remove the cable from the bracket without having to undo their crimped/soldered connection.

Keep up the good work!


Thanks for the suggestions, it's great having another pair of eyes to look at something. I wasn't completely happy with how it turned out, and your suggestions got the ol' brain cells cooking. So I re-thought the design and here is throttle cable version 2.0. I used a piece of steel plumbing pipe welded to the factory bracket and I cut a slit on the bottom side of the pipe to insert the cable. I'm much happier with this look. Now on to the shift cable!



fieroguru MSG #111, 12-31-2012 05:47 PM
      That looks 100% better!

seajai MSG #112, 01-04-2013 12:19 AM
      Finished the fab work on the shifter today, and this one took a bit of head scratching to get it done. The challenges here were 2 fold. First, the Chrysler cable had an aluminum housing as part of the cable and mounted to the transmission with a single bolt to a boss cast into the case, so there wasn't anywhere to attach a normal type bracket. Second, the shift arm was set up for the cable to "push" into park, but the Fiero shifter "pulls" the arm into park.

I was hoping to use the Chrysler shifter because it had the "autostick" switch built into it but it just wouldn't fit so I decided to stay with the factory shifter, which means I am going to have to come up with another way to make the autostick work. Plus, the Chrysler shift cable was too short. So using the Fiero shifter and cable, I decided to use the transmission bracket as well. I needed to make a frame to mount the bracket, as well as cut a wedge out of the bracket to change the cable angle. With that accomplished I needed to fabricate a new arm 180deg off from the factory arm to change from a "push" to a "pull". This was a lot of trial and error to get the length of the arm right to make the detentes in the Chrysler trans line up with the stops in the Fiero shifter. In the end, I got P R N oD to line up perfectly, 3rd and 2nd are off slightly but I may just modify the shifter with new stops.

Here are a few pics.







mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #113, 01-04-2013 01:14 AM
     

seajai MSG #114, 01-06-2013 09:23 PM
      Another weekend has come and gone and more progress has been made.

The cooling system on the Chrysler engine has the thermostat on the lower hose as well as a thermostat bypass for the hearer core built into the water neck. The coolant flows from the upper hose through the radiator and back to the lower hose. Coolant flowing through the heater core returns back to the thermostat bypass on the water neck, the surge tank is also on the return/bypass circuit. This is similar to the Fiero heater core return but I needed to return the core all the way back to the engine so I had to plug the fitting on the return pipe. The other issue I have is the upper and lower radiator hook ups on the engine point to the wrong sides of the car. This means the upper hose will be hooked up on the right side pipe and the lower on the left. I will have to switch the connections to the radiator under the front tub to get the flow correct. To make my heater core hard lines I used 3/4" 18ga steel tubing and preformed heater hose to connect everything. The folks at my local O'Reilly's auto parts have been extremely helpful in the project and I was able to go back and look through their selection of hoses to find ones that worked.

Here a few pics of my weekend progress:











seajai MSG #115, 01-09-2013 10:57 PM
      Coolant tube for the upper radiator hose, I got lucky and scored some mandrel bent pipe sections. Just need to get a couple more radiator hoses and I'll be able to move another one to the "done" column.









seajai MSG #116, 01-12-2013 11:51 PM
      Finished the cooling system modifications today. I have been able to find off the shelf hoses that would work, except for one. I needed a straight piece that was 1.5" on one end and 1.25" on the other but that's not a standard part. Luckily I was able to find what I needed at Speedwaymotors.com The amazing part was, I ordered the hose online at 11pm Thursday night, and 3pm today(Saturday) it was on my doorstep. I've never got a part that quick, and it wasn't anything extra for shipping.



Installed:



The lower hose on the drivers side came from an Olds Aurora V8. I just cut off the 90deg bend on one end.



As explained before, I had to run the upper and lower hoses up the opposite sides of the car because of how the engine was set up. I had to switch sides on the radiator to keep the coolant flow correct. (That's another Aurora hose on the upper.)



I needed to find a smaller surge tank to fit the back of the Fiero because the Chrysler one was huge and the hoses exited in the wrong spots. After a couple hours of walking around the pick-n-pull looking at what seemed like hundreds of cars, I finally found one from a SAAB that fit nicely.



Think I'll try and finish the fuel lines tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 01-12-2013).]

engine man (fieroa8@gmail.com) MSG #117, 01-13-2013 10:07 AM
      Wow this car is coming out nice keep up the great job

seajai MSG #118, 01-13-2013 10:26 PM
      Got the fuel line run from underneath up to the engine. Need to run the nylon line from the pump to the steel line yet. I'm quickly running out of space in the engine compartment and I need to make sure I leave enough room for an exhaust system.

seajai MSG #119, 01-15-2013 07:12 PM
      Sent my PCM off to Arrington Performance today to have the immobilizer programming removed and other things turned off (evap, heated O2 sensors, etc).

seajai MSG #120, 01-21-2013 11:24 PM
      Checked another job off the list. Got the transmission cooler lines hooked up and added a Hayden Rapid-Cool auxiliary cooler. The Chrysler had an external cooler so I figured I better add one to be safe.





BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #121, 01-21-2013 11:32 PM
      I use this one for my chargecooler.. Its off a FWD GM car. It even has a sensor in the bottom for the fluid level. I tied it into the coolant light so if I ever have a leak the light should come on in the dash. Malibu maybe??



seajai MSG #122, 01-26-2013 07:31 PM
      Got my RT side axle built today, and much to my amazement, the Chrysler parts are the same diameter and spline count as the GM parts.

The axle is built using parts from three different cars. The outer C/V joint is from a 2002 Chevy Caviler with a manual transmission. The axle shaft is from the drivers side of a 1999 Buick Le Sabre, it was about an inch shorter than the Cavi shaft and is the perfect length. The inner tripot joint is a hybrid of Chevrolet and Chrysler. The "star" part of the joint on the Chrysler axle is held to the shaft with a snap ring but the Le Sabre shaft had the small round ring / snap ring combo so the Chrysler "star" couldn't be properly attached to the shaft. The Caviler inner "star" attached the same way as the Le Sabre and had the same diameter roller bearings as the Chrysler but different rollers. So I removed the rollers from the Chrysler "star" and installed them on the Caviler "star" and installed it on the shaft. I slid the assembly in the car and it fits like it's always been there. I'm just bewildered how simple it was mixing GM and Mopar........and relieved too. Bought new long lower control arm bolts from Fastenal M12x220 HCS 10.9. p/n# 35111

Gotta go back to the pick-n-pull tomorrow to look for an axle for the left side, everything I bought today was too short.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-10-2013).]

seajai MSG #123, 01-28-2013 10:46 PM
      The drivers side axle was a bit more of an adventure. The longest axle I could find in GM was from the right side of a 1990 Buick Century with a TH125 trans (18" long) but it turned out to be 3/4" too short. So it was back to the pick-n-pull to see what I could find, but after an hour in the snow, I found nothing long enough. I decided to look through the Ford section just on the off chance that maybe........ well, I found that the Windstar van passenger side axle looked close in length and the axle diameter was the same @1.070" so I grabbed one. I brought it home and pulled it apart, and whaddya know, it's the right length ( 18 3/4" ) has 32 splines and the GM joints slide right on!

So here is the complete drivers side axle: 02 Cavi outer-> 97 Ford Windstar shaft-> 02 Cavi tripot w/Chrysler rollers in the Chrysler cup . Whoda thunkit! I was looking at spending hundreds of dollars of custom length shafts but ended up building 2 axles for less than $100 bucks.


[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 01-28-2013).]

wftb (danjesso@bmts.com) MSG #124, 01-28-2013 11:41 PM
      that is awesome work with the axles and this whole project in general is one of my favourites .when i started my ecotec swap , i thought i would have to buy custom axles .when my ecotec arrived they shipped a cavalier axle with it by mistake .i looked at it , looked at my fiero 4 speed and i shoved it in to the transaxle and it fit perfectly .after 20+ years , no change in axle design .saved a lot of coin .

Synthesis MSG #125, 01-29-2013 09:53 AM
      Man, how freakin' lucky did you get? Nice job man.

seajai MSG #126, 01-29-2013 05:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

Man, how freakin' lucky did you get? Nice job man.


Hahaha! No doubt! The big 3 must get all their axles from the same supplier.


seajai MSG #127, 02-07-2013 12:34 AM
      A little more progress to report... I had a bit of a setback last week, my PCM was sent back to me without being reprogrammed, no explanation, no phone call from Arrington. After 3 days and multiple calls, I was told the reason was that they didn't have the software to do it, even though I was told they could do it. So I decided to save the $350 and just run the systems I was going to remove.
The first one is the evap system. The Chrysler uses a leak detection solenoid (NVLD), a canister purge solenoid, and re-fueling vapor recovery (ORVR). After a little head scratching, I think I got it adapted to the Fiero. The NVLD and purge will turn on the SES light if there is a problem but the ORVR will not, so I eliminated the ORVR and just went with the other 2. I tapped in to the fuel filler vent pipe up by the filler neck to feed the vapors to the canister through a valve that has a built in orifice to meter vapor flow into the canister. The "tee" points up and I'm far enough up that I hoping no liquid fuel finds its way into the canister during re-fueling.





The second system is the catalyst monitor or downstream heated oxygen sensors. I found plans on the interweb for building simulators using off the shelf parts from Radio Shack, so I'm gonna give that a shot because I don't want to run cats. These may require a little fiddling once everything is up and running but hopefully they will work.

The other big thing is the Sentry Key Immobilize Module (SKIM). This is Chrysler's anti-theft system. There is a ID chip in the head of the key that is read by a ring around the ign lock cylinder, if the ID chip matches what is in the PCM memory, the engine will start. If not, then it start and die. I am going to try and bypass this by taking the SKIM off of the steering column and putting the head of the key inside the ring and holding it in place somehow.

I also got started on my wiring harness this week. There is a power distribution center under the hood (fuses and relays), and a junction block inside the car which holds even more fuses and relays, as well as the BCM. Under the hood was a big harness that fed the front of the car, engine, and transmission. This connects to the junction block inside the car, and the junction block has 2 more big harnesses attached to it. The amount of wiring in this car is truly amazing. I had downloaded a factory service manual for the 300m, without which, the wiring part of this project would have been impossible.

So here are the 2 of the 3 main harnesses on the bench before removing all unneeded circuits:





The 3rd harness was the main body one that I just left in the car because 99.4% of it was not needed.

Here is what remains:



Basically what i ended up with is PCM/BCM, instrument cluster, and autostick switch. The nice thing is the cluster works on a PCI BUS so only 1 wire is needed from the BCM to run all the gauges. I am running the Chrysler cruise system, so I will need to figure out how to adapt the steering wheel mounted switches to the fiero. I'm hoping the wiring will only take 3-4 weeks but ya never know. There isn't much room to start with in the Fiero and now I need to add 2 more fuse panels and a BCM.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 02-07-2013).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #128, 02-07-2013 06:53 AM
      I know its a bit extra work, but a lot of the kit guys adapt the Chrysler steering column to the Fiero. This wold give you the key you need and the cruise control controls.

Just a thought...

Bob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #129, 02-11-2013 02:39 PM
      I recall that early in the 3800 swap days before the PCM was all worked out, guys would have to run the GP ignition w/Key in it. It was left in the run position and then the Fiero Key would start the car. The GP key could be removed and it acted like a anti-theft device because the car would not run with out it. Maybe you can do the same.

Great score on the Axles, I hope I have the same luck building my 3800 swap axles.

Rob


seajai MSG #130, 02-15-2013 12:58 AM
      Well the wiring part of this job is turning out to be more work than I anticipated. Turns out, finding Chrysler wire terminals is about impossible. They used multiple vendors for their connector bodies and each one has its own unique terminal and nobody carries them. So I have abandoned the Chrysler junction block and underhood relay center and will be wiring things into a GM relay center, as well as switching out Chrysler connectors where I can for Delphi metri-pack ones because the terminals are readily available. I'll post some pics of that when I get 'em done.

The engine harness had a PCM connector and another connector coming out on the drivers side, the only problem with that is my PCM is going to be mounted on the passenger side. So I had to take apart the harness and flip the wiring 180deg to get it to point to the right. This meant 1,3,5 coil and injector plugs were now on the 2,4,6 side and vice-versa, so I had to switch the terminals in the PCM connector. Other circuits needed to be lengthened and some shortened to accommodate the new arrangement.

Before:


After:



The other issue I needed to tackle was routing the main body harness back out into the engine compartment. The hole where it used to run through is gone, so I figured I'd just move it over behind the passenger seat but the pass-through and wiring stick out too far. After a bit of head scratching I came up with this:





The angled bump out will allow the pass-through to tuck nicely behind the carpet. My next task is to unpin C500 and shorten the harness about 12" or so. Luckily it just uses a mix of metri-pack 280 and 480 terminals, the toughest part is gonna be dealing with the black goo in the connectors.


mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #131, 02-15-2013 01:13 AM
      Very nice. I'm still watching

tntcary (tntcary@outlook.com) MSG #132, 02-15-2013 06:34 AM
      This is like freakin art !!!!! Thanks for sharing all this.

Synthesis MSG #133, 02-15-2013 07:54 PM
      Impressive solution to the main harness connector. I was wondering how you were going to do that...

I can't wait to see it running.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #134, 02-15-2013 09:13 PM
     

Bob


seajai MSG #135, 02-17-2013 12:20 AM
      A little more progress today. With the extent of the harness mods needed I decided to abandon the old sticky gooey C500 connector and use a modern sealed Metri-Pack one instead. I spent a few hours at the pick-n-pull Friday harvesting connectors. I scored three 15 cavity ones from a Riviera, Aurora, and Sunfire. As well as four 7 cavity ones from a Caddi and an S-10 Blazer. After sorting out all of the wires from the taillight harness, I removed the 5 wires for the cruise servo and installed the remaining wires into my new 15 cavity connector and did the same procedure with the rats nest of wires from the pass through. This is the result, much cleaner and no more black goo. The remaining wires will be integrated into the new relay center and PCM harness. The 2 wires taped out of the harness are the feed and return for the back up lights. I am replacing the two Chrysler transmission harness connectors (24 wires total) with new Metri-Pack GT280 connectors when I shorten the harness and will hook them up at that time.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 02-17-2013).]

seajai MSG #136, 03-09-2013 10:51 PM
      Lots of progress over the last 3 weeks. Wired in my new Delphi GT280 connectors for my transmission harness. One is a 10 cavity and the other a 16.



Picked up a W-body under hood relay center, stripped it bare, and re-wired it with the Chrysler circuits. I made a custom bracket and mounted it to the strut tower. Modified the factory PCM bracket and mounted it to the firewall and got all my wiring harness routed.



Inside the car I removed all of the unneeded wiring and ran new harnesses for the in-car PCM circuits.



I re-did my push button start / keyless entry system wiring to clean it up a bit.



I decided to mount my BCM where the blue dingy-thingy lived. First I removed the bracket.....



I modified the Chrysler BCM bracket and riveted it in place....



BCM installed on the bracket



I needed to make a headlight switch simulator to get my cluster to dim when the headlights are on. I used a relay and a few resistors, mounted it in a project box from Radio Shack, and added a GM wire connector.



Here is everything mounted and wired in place. I mounted the data link connector to the air box too. It is just hidden when the dash is in place but still easily accessible.



I combined the wiring for the cluster into one connector and did the same thing in the car.



I was unable to make the Chrysler shifter work which meant finding an alternate way to make the autostick feature work. Also, I needed to use the Chrysler steering wheel mounted cruise control switches. My solution to both issues was to use a modern air bag equipped steering column. So I wandered around the pick-n-pull looking for a suitable donor and found this:



Its from a 1997 Cadillac Seville. It has heater/radio controls mounted either side of the airbag. I will be using the radio control levers as paddle shifters and the air bag wiring for my cruise switches. The Cadi column wont fit in the Fiero, but (the round) GM columns are essentially all the same. With that in mind, I tore down the Caddi column and harvested the pieces I needed to modify the Fiero one. The lock housing on the newer columns is taller to accommodate the air bag clockspring, and the upper shaft is also longer. Esentially those are the only parts I need, along with the clockspring.



You can see the difference in the length of the upper steering shafts.



With my push button start system, I don't need an ignition key, so I removed the lock cylinder part from the lock housing and filled the hole.



So here is the finished Fiero / Seville steering column.



Installed in the car:



I need to make a dummy airbag to mount the cruise switches and finish off the column. And because the switches moved, I replaced the turn signal lever with a non-cruise one.



I need to mount the battery in the front, which means long cables. I went to my local yard and picked up a couple Buick LeSabre positive cables (the one with the battery under the back seat), and a negative cable. The positive cables are 137" long but the negative cables are only 20"



The protective ends are removable, so I took the black one off the neg cable and installed it on one of the long cables so I'd have a pair.





I hooked up the battery and powered her up to function test all of my work.



No smoke and everything works! The display on the cluster even dims when the lights are turned on! The electroluminescent backlighting on my cluster is not working, but it was intermittent when I bought the car so that's not a big surprise. I think it's a common problem for Chrysler. Also, I am not able to start the engine right now so I'm not able to test if I was successful in bypassing the security immobilizer. I'm sure there will be an issue or two to deal with on that. I need to finish the fuel system and install the tank as well as some engine stuff before I can start it. There is a light at the end of this long tunnel!




Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #137, 03-10-2013 07:59 AM
      I'm very impressed with your work so far! Your making it look way to easy. -Jason

Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #138, 03-10-2013 11:06 AM
      I had completely overlooked this build until a friend pointed me to it. (Thanks Carey!)

This is amazing! All the solutions seemed to be "right there". I know a lot more went into it than that. What I'm saying is that you have almost made this look easy.
Amazing fabrication and implementation. I look forward to seeing the rest.


seajai MSG #139, 03-10-2013 03:32 PM
      Thanks for the compliments.

After a bit of Google-ing I'm pretty confident I have a solution to my dash light issue. It seems to be a pretty common issue to have a bad electroluminescent inverter with the white faced indiglow gauges causing intermittent/inoperative backlighting. Luckily Glowhut.com has the one I need and it's only 14 bucks with shipping. I'm also going to try adding a lighting gel filter to change the green glow to red.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 03-10-2013).]

mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #140, 03-14-2013 11:13 PM
      Im taking a collision repair class and we have a Mitsubishi Eagle Vison TSI that was donated to the school for auto body repair... The engine is a 3.5 24 Valve V6 with a dual holley throttle body setup... I really want to get the intake manifold off of it and send it to you. I have pictures, and ill actually try to get it if you want it.





Edit for pics

[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 03-14-2013).]

seajai MSG #141, 03-15-2013 12:30 AM
      I appreciate the thought, but that manifold won't work on the high output version of the 3.5L engine. The HO version uses a larger bore single TB, a "manifold tuning valve", and a "short runner valve" which re-directs the incoming air through a shorter set of runners during WOT above 5K RPM. The PCM is programmed for these and I don't think the engine would run right with the older style manifold. Also the HO uses coil-on-plug ignition wouldn't fit under that intake.



This kinda explains the different generations of 3.5

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 03-15-2013).]

mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #142, 03-15-2013 12:36 AM
      Ah i see! I remembered reading something about the dual tb setup and it was hercimer that has one. I just went back to re read... The swap is looking amazing!!! Cant wait to see a video of it fun!

seajai MSG #143, 03-15-2013 11:15 PM
      I received my new electroluminescent inverter the other day and got it hooked up. Much to my dismay, it made a high pitch "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" sound when on, not too loud but loud enough to be annoying inside the car. After a bit of Google-ing, I found out that this is normal and that some are worse than others. So I decided to put the inverter out under the hood where I cant hear it and run wiring into the car. Luckily there a couple empty spots in C100.

First, I harvested a twisted pair of wheel speed sensor wires from the Chrysler and wired them into the open spots on C100.





I added a Metri-Pack connector to the cluster and the wiring from C100 up to the cluster.





I bought some of these wire loom tee fittings from Waytek wire, it makes for a nice clean install and loom routing.



So here is the inverter hooked up, I'm not sure on a final home for it yet so it's just hanging out for now. I tapped power off of the brown park light wire so the dash only on when the lights are on.



A couple pics of the cluster from a drivers seat point of view. I turned off the garage lights for the "ON" pic. I think it looks cool as hell. The new inverter is slightly different than the stock one so the lighs are more Blue than the factory Green. I was thinking about a red filter to match the lighting on the aux gauges but now I'm thinking I want to make White EL faces for them to match the Chrysler cluster.



[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 03-15-2013).]

mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #144, 03-17-2013 01:33 AM
      Edit: Stupid double post

[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 03-17-2013).]

seajai MSG #145, 03-17-2013 11:18 PM
      Now that the wiring is finished and tested, I am moving on to the penultimate phase of the project, taking it all apart again. I pulled the engine/trans out which allowed me to finish looming the engine compartment half of the harness. Now it's time to start filling spot weld holes, cleaning rust, painting brackets, etc. The engine will be getting a thorough cleaning/degreasing as well as a new timing belt and waterpump. I still need to do the Fieroguru hinge modification as I had to cut off the hinge boxes to make more room for things. Here is a pic of the finished engine compartment wire harness.



seajai MSG #146, 03-20-2013 12:49 AM
      I ran it to some clearance issues between my fuel sender "dome" I had to put in the tunnel and the shifter cable. The cable won't fit in it's factory location, it needs to move to the left a couple inches. Last summer, I bought a shifter out of a 90 Olds Toronado, I always liked the 2 bar design and I wanted to try and make it work somehow. Well this cable issue was the perfect excuse to have a go at it. I cut off the front and rear mounting tabs and made my own. The cable stud needed to be relocated, which solved my cable routing issue by moving everything over to the left. I still have a little more fab work but I'm close. It's about 3/4" taller than the stock one but I like the way it looks. I will need to make a custom shift plate for it but I'm already making custom everything else so what's one more thing on the to-do list.



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #147, 03-20-2013 11:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:
Already looking into a WRX 2.0 turbo swap for my next one. The wife looked at me kinda sideways when I mentioned it to her though. I almost got the feeling she was questioning my sanity


That is my dream swap DO ITTTTT!



donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #148, 04-02-2013 09:17 PM
      Bump for updates. Loving this project!

seajai MSG #149, 04-03-2013 09:33 AM
      Progress has been a little slow. I got all the spot weld drill holes filled in, seam sealed my new sheet metal and painted the engine bay. I was hoping to get more done but I've been fighting a flu bug for more than a week now, and it's been kicking my a$$. I will try and post some new pics soon.

carbon MSG #150, 04-22-2013 02:25 PM
      Bump!

You didn't think we were going to leave you alone for a whole month did you?


donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #151, 04-30-2013 09:47 PM
      Bump for a cool project!

seajai MSG #152, 05-03-2013 12:34 AM
      My illness turned out to be CMV ( cytomegalovirus). It's a nasty virus that zaps all your energy and causes really high fever. I was sick the last week in March and almost the entire month of April. So I haven't worked on the car in over a month, much to my dismay. I'm almost back to normal and hope to get back to it next week. I got some stuff done before my illness, I just need to get some pictures taken to post......... stay tuned.

fourpoint9 (stevenmsimpson@comcast.net) MSG #153, 05-03-2013 12:45 AM
      Hope you are well soon. Awesome project, lots of us follow your build.

seajai MSG #154, 05-05-2013 01:45 PM
      Ok, here are a few pics of the painted engine bay. I'm hoping to resume work this week, and barring any illnesses or other catastrophes, the plan is to have it on the ground and running by the end of May.







seajai MSG #155, 05-14-2013 11:55 PM
      Reassembly is underway....

I got the fuel tank reinstalled yesterday. Hooking up the filler hoses was a huge pain though since my lower firewall mods left me with very little wiggle room. I also installed the heater core coolant tubes, fuel line, and cross-car brake line.



Relay center and engine bay wiring harness.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 05-14-2013).]

seajai MSG #156, 05-18-2013 09:10 AM
      More progress. I still have to do the hinge modification so the deck lid is just sitting there but the clip is bolted back on. It came off in November so it was a bit of a challenge remembering how it went together.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 05-18-2013).]

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #157, 05-18-2013 11:56 AM
      Looking good, can't wait to see it run and drive! -Jason

donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #158, 05-18-2013 07:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:

Looking good, can't wait to see it run and drive! -Jason


Ditto


BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #159, 05-18-2013 08:45 PM
      Great work so far. I really love the attention to detail. And I really cant wait to see the EJ20/25 swap!!!!!!!

project34 MSG #160, 05-19-2013 08:49 PM
      This is FYI, seajai, in regard to a photo you posted at the outset of your thread here, showing much of the topside portion of the 3.5L engine you're transplanting from a 2003 Chrysler 300M into your Fiero.

After seeing that picture you posted, two things quickly occurred to me:
  • The topside appearance of the 3.5L engine you're transplanting from a 2003 Chrysler 300M into your Fiero looks very similar to the topside appearance of the 3.5L Chrysler engines in 1997, and 1999 through 2002 Prowlers.

  • In turn, that means that if you wanted to better show off your 3.5L engine swap after you've completed it successfully1, you presumably could accomplish that using any of the topside engine dress-up items curently offered for 1997, and 1999 through 2002 Prowlers.
Some of a few such items offered by TheProwlerStore.com2 are two laser-cut, highly polished stainless steel plates that fit over the raised black letters on the 3.5L engine's valve covers, and two narrow, highly polished stainless steel strips that draw more attention to the 3.5L designation on the intake manifold:




Of course, given your creativity and the rapidity with which you're acquiring various metal-working skills, I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised to learn you've already fabricated some pieces like those.


In any case, good luck to you on your 3.5L engine swap project!

------
Notes:

1Notice I said in my second bulletpoint with regard to your 3.5L Chrysler engine swap, "after you've completed it successfully" --- NOT "if".

2TheProwlerStore.com ( http://www.theprowlerstore....oducts_Main_Menu.htm ) can be pricey on some items. However, unlike TheProwlerStore.com, the large, "discount-oriented" mail order firms like Summit, Jeg's, or J.C. Whitney, don't have real engine dress-up parts for the Chrysler 300M 3.5L V6. When they're not being candid about that, and one examines on-line what those "discount-oriented" firms like Summit, Jeg's, or J.C. Whitney actually offer as so-called dress-up parts for that engine, it typically consists primarily of silly things like "universal", push-in, valve cover breathers (which a 300M doesn't use in the first place), or PCVs that one could buy at any local NAPA auto parts store.



seajai MSG #161, 05-19-2013 09:40 PM
      Ya had to go and show me that........ now I need to save up MORE money!

I like the full engine cover too, I'll have to see how much room I have once the decklid is back on.

Edit: WOO HOO! I got my own page 5

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 05-19-2013).]

seajai MSG #162, 05-25-2013 01:47 PM
      Working on getting the engine stuff finished up today, found a Mopar "re-manufactured parts" sticker on the bottom of the block by the oil pan. Turns out my engine is a factory Mopar long block replaced in April 2008. I ran the part number, they get $4200 bucks for a long block. Guess this means I dont have 146,000 mile motor. Wonder if the replacement would show up in a carfax report so I could figure out how many miles it has.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 05-25-2013).]

pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #163, 05-25-2013 02:55 PM
      Look into a 300M special Speedo.... 150MPH


Keep up the good work.



seajai MSG #164, 05-26-2013 12:36 AM
      Getting closer to done, today was all about getting the engine ready to back in the car. I installed a new set of plugs and a PCV valve, and cleaned the throttle body. Chrysler recommends a 100,000 mile interval for timing belt/waterpump, and since I didn't know the service history I decided to replace both. I'm glad I did, the pump had been leaking and the bearing was so loose that the impeller was rubbing on the housing.





While installing the exhaust manifolds, I had a bolt pull the threads out of the head. After looking at the rest of the holes, I found the threads mucked up in almost all of them. I decided to just TimeSert all 12 of them just to avoid any future issues.



Stripped hole:



Fixed:



Engine is finished and ready to go back in the car.



Have to finish the deck lid hinge modification tomorrow and hopefully install the engine too. It's getting close.....I can't wait!



seajai MSG #165, 05-27-2013 08:36 AM
      Saturday was a very productive day, I finished my trunk lid hinge modification. I want to say a big "THANK YOU!" to fieroguru for the posting the hinge mods and the dimensions of the new plate, it saved me a bunch of time R&D time. The only change I made was the spacer, fg used aluminum, I couldn't find any 1/4" aluminum on a Sunday of a holiday weekend so I used high density polyethylene plastic (a $5.95 kitchen cutting board from FleetFarm).



So here we go.....the engine is complete and ready for its new home.



Installation was a bit of a pain, the fully dressed engine is a tight squeeze in the Fiero engine compartment, especially with all of the plumbing and wiring installed. But with a little help from the neighbor, and a few curse words, IT"S IN!!! Almost everything is hooked up with just a couple battery cables to run from the front of the car. So if I built my wiring harness right and was successful in bypassing the immobilizer, it should run today sometime (fingers crossed).

Here are a few pics of the engine in it's new home:





[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 05-27-2013).]

donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #166, 05-27-2013 10:57 AM
      Can't wait for the video of this beast running. Great job so far and that 3.5 looks good in there.

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #167, 05-27-2013 11:46 AM
      Is it wrong to excited for someone else's hard work? Can't wait to hear it run! -Jason

project34 MSG #168, 05-27-2013 01:04 PM
      Seeing that Prowler-like engine in the back of a Fiero makes me smile.

What surprised me is that engine for some reason seems to be an even tighter fit within the rear decklid compartnent of a Fiero than it is within the narrow, rather pointed, front-engine compartment of a Prowler.

In either case, that engine probably could stand a bit of "bling" --- be it the aftermarket Prowler parts I'd suggested at the bottom of the previous e-page on this forum, or what I think is the engine cover you've mentioned from the same aftermarket Prowler engine parts source I'd suggested. The latter is appealing, but I'd investigate beforehand if you've enough under-the-decklid clearance for it.

That aside, seeing your Prowler-like engine in the back of your Fiero just makes me smile.




carbon MSG #169, 05-27-2013 01:57 PM
      That just looks bad ass... very nice job sir!


fieroguru MSG #170, 05-27-2013 04:35 PM
      Looks great!

I love the that hinge mod too! If you go to the 30th, track down Jefrysuko and buy him a beverage of his choice, as it was his original idea (at the 25th), I just made it happen and showed how I did it.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-27-2013).]

FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #171, 05-27-2013 04:55 PM
      I'm looking forward to seeing videos once its complete!



dajack761 (dajack761@gmail.com) MSG #172, 05-27-2013 05:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

That just looks bad ass... very nice job sir!


I agree, that looks awesome.


seajai MSG #173, 05-27-2013 07:22 PM
      WOO HOO!!!!!!! It runs!!!!!!!

Had a problem with the immobilizer at first because I had the key in the wrong place relative to the antenna. I got that sorted out and she fired right up an purred like a kitten. Well, more like a lion because I'm only running the catalytic converters right now. I need to fill and burp the cooling system yet and take care of a couple odds n ends and then I will post a video.


Reallybig MSG #174, 05-28-2013 03:17 AM
      Very nice indeed!

Synthesis MSG #175, 05-28-2013 08:16 AM
      So when do I drop off my new 86GT for you to do this to?

seajai MSG #176, 05-28-2013 08:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

So when do I drop off my new 86GT for you to do this to?


Oh Jesus! I think doing another one of these swaps would result in:
A) my commitment to a mental health facility
B) a messy divorce
C) Both

I was having a beer(s) last night and thinking about the project and how much I grossly underestimated the amount of work was going to be to complete an original swap. I think my baby is going to remain the only one.

Edit: It's nice to see your old avitar back. That is one of my favorite south park episodes.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 05-28-2013).]

project34 MSG #177, 05-28-2013 11:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

So when do I drop off my new 86GT for you to do this to?

 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Oh Jesus! I think doing another one of these swaps would result in:
A) my commitment to a mental health facility
B) a messy divorce
C) Both

Your wife has yet to confine you to a mental institution, despite your having put a a 3.5L Chrysler engine into a Pontiac Fiero.

Accordingly, I think you'll be fine --- provided, of course, that you continue to take all of your prescribed remedial psychoactive medications.





seajai MSG #178, 05-30-2013 12:39 AM
      My dad stopped by tonight and shot a quick cell phone video: http://www.youtube.com/watc...L7U&feature=youtu.be

I will post a more complete video once I get her fully assembled and back on the wheels.


diabloroadster MSG #179, 05-30-2013 01:19 AM
      WOW!!!! Even without mufflers it sounds great. About half way through my Diablo kit car build I was saying the same thing about how much more work it was going to be and swore I would never do another one. But now that its pretty much finished Im already on the look out for another one and "IF" I find another kit car project I will seriously consider this drivetrain you installed in your Fiero..

Great work! Looking forward to seeing more updates~

[This message has been edited by diabloroadster (edited 05-30-2013).]

Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #180, 05-30-2013 04:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

My dad stopped by tonight and shot a quick cell phone video.


Props to your dad for holding the cell phone correctly and not shooting a vertical video.

Sounds good. You don't need mufflers.


carbon MSG #181, 05-30-2013 09:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

My dad stopped by tonight and shot a quick cell phone video: http://www.youtube.com/watc...L7U&feature=youtu.be

I will post a more complete video once I get her fully assembled and back on the wheels.


You got two days 'til the show and shine this weekend. Get it done.


seajai MSG #182, 05-30-2013 01:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:


You got two days 'til the show and shine this weekend. Get it done.

Hopefully the rain stays away. Barring any issues on the road test, I'll be there.


carbon MSG #183, 05-30-2013 01:45 PM
      NICE! Looking forward to it. Mine won't be there.

BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #184, 05-31-2013 12:47 AM
      Wow! it even sounds good!

seajai MSG #185, 05-31-2013 01:28 AM
      I like the sound it makes when the engine is cranking, it doesn't sound like a Fiero.

Worked til after midnight trying to get 'er done for the weekend. Underhood is done, engine compartment is done, battery is mounted, interior is 60% installed. Bolted the driver's seat back in at the end of the night and sat in my car for the first time since November..... sure feels good to be back in the saddle.


VikingRedBaron (vikingredbaron@juno.com) MSG #186, 05-31-2013 07:40 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:


You got two days 'til the show and shine this weekend. Get it done.


Where and when is this show you speak of ?


seajai MSG #187, 05-31-2013 07:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by VikingRedBaron:


Where and when is this show you speak of ?


Minnesota Fieros Forever show and shine at Wagners Drive In, Brooklyn park. Check out the calendar of events on the MMF website


seajai MSG #188, 06-01-2013 12:28 AM
      Exactly 212 days ago I rolled my baby into the garage for a heart transplant. Tonight she emerged reborn!



I've been really pushing it the last couple of weeks to get this project finished and back on the road. There have been some late nights and lots of head scratching trying to figure out where I put some of the pieces I took off 7 months ago. One of the last items was to install the rear wheels. My electric impact decided to quit working at that point so I put the lug nuts on and tightened them by hand with the intent to torque them once the wheels were on the ground. Well, I had a little trouble getting the car down off of the jack stands, so by the time I accomplished that task and rolled the car out of the garage, I kinda forgot about the plan to torque the lugs. So down the road I go with my neighbor in the passenger seat, totally oblivious to the danger brewing just a few feet behind me. Well.......I remembered the plan just after the left rear wheel came off.





Luckily I was only going about 25mph and was close to home. There was a little damage (scrapes) to the wheel and no body damage. My pride on the other hand....... Got the wheel back on and the lug nuts properly torqued and it was time for the maiden voyage (part 2).

I was taking it a bit easy at first, just seeing how things were, I was a bit unsure how the axles would behave with the offset I am running. The autostick feature is pretty fun, and my home made paddle shifters work great. Everything seemed to be going good so I decided to open her up a bit. This engine pulls hard and smooth all the way through the RPM range. The exhaust got pretty loud under heavy acceleration so I didn't make too many runs. I hope to get an exhaust system done next week and put a bunch more miles on it. The TorquePro app does 0-60 times, etc, so I will be trying that out too.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-01-2013).]

Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #189, 06-01-2013 01:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

I kinda forgot about the plan to torque the lugs. So down the road I go with my neighbor in the passenger seat, totally oblivious to the danger brewing just a few feet behind me. Well.......I remembered the plan just after the left rear wheel came off.


Oopsie.

Glad you didn't screw anything up (besides your pride).


Silicoan86 (jcoan86@yahoo.com) MSG #190, 06-01-2013 02:18 AM
      Awesome! Can't wait to see this thing at the show and shine tomorrow!

Sorry to hear about your ego though...


ironhead (bj3rath@gmail.com) MSG #191, 06-01-2013 10:50 AM
      This was a great build, I love the sound.

fieroseblack (fieroseblack@yahoo.com) MSG #192, 06-01-2013 11:08 AM
      Great job. Dare to be different. That's cool.

DARKWING
Mike Parker


FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #193, 06-01-2013 12:17 PM
      Wondering... is there a Pentastar swap in someone's future?

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html



carbon MSG #194, 06-01-2013 05:16 PM
      Saw this today... was awesome. Great job man!

deezil MSG #195, 06-01-2013 09:38 PM
      This Is BADASS!



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #196, 06-02-2013 11:18 AM
      Congrats, I"ve been watching your build and have thought this would make a cool swap, I like your solution to the Firewall connector in particular.

Joe


Synthesis MSG #197, 06-02-2013 01:22 PM
      I saw this car yesterday, and it is very well done.

I even got a ride in it. WOW is all I can say. She pulls hard and smooth through the gears.

Very impressive.


seajai MSG #198, 06-02-2013 05:57 PM
      Thanks for all the compliments This was a lot of work and I'm glad it turned out as good as it did.

I knew had a few bugs to figure out before I drove it, and my driving it around yesterday revealed a couple more. When I first started the engine, I had a check engine light on. A quick check for codes revealed a "fan 2 ckt open/shorted" code. The Chrysler had 2 cooling fans and the Fiero only 1, so I used the fan 1 circuit to run the cooling fan and taped the fan 2 wire into the harness just in case. As it turns out, the PCM monitors the resistance of the circuit, and the lack of a fan 2 relay set a fault code. So I will need to wire in a relay to give the PCM something to look at.

The other issue was that the PCM was commanding both fan relays ON whenever the engine was running, even when the coolant was cold. A quick review of the service manual gave me a few options as to why this would be. Turns out the lack of the A/C pressure transducer was causing the PCM to default the fans ON. I'm not running the Chrysler A/C system because of all the computer controls, but I'm going to have to wire in the transducer to make the fan work correctly. This is a great example of why you should never toss out any parts until the job is completely finished. I kept the transducer and the wiring connector. I temped it in and started the engine and now the fan works as it should, ON at 213 deg and OFF at 206.

Transducer temporarily wired in place to test fan operation:



My RR caliper developed a leak from the e-brake lever shaft, just from sitting on the shelf. I found out that 88 front calipers will go on the rear, and I'm not running an e-brake so I bought a pair of NOS GM front calipers from calipersonline.com. I hope to see them mid-week, until the the car is grounded.

The drive revealed a coolant leak from my radiator plug. The Chrysler uses a coolant tank by the engine so the overflow in front needed to go. The problem was the radiator cap was trying to vent and the plug I clamped over the radiator outlet couldn't hold the pressure and it leaked coolant everywhere. After a little head scratching, I decided on plugging the hole with a brass screw JB welded and nutted in place. I ground down the head of a flat head screw to clear the cap. Top it off with a rubber cap and it looks good.





The other drive issue is a shake on hard acceleration. This may be a product of the offset angle I'm running on the axles, or maybe one of the joints I got at the pick-n-pull is bad. I think this one will be ongoing, I plan on driving it and just see what happens.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-02-2013).]

deezil MSG #199, 06-02-2013 10:36 PM
      So bad ass!

Tcat55371 MSG #200, 06-03-2013 07:46 AM
      Nice job, saw it at the MFF get together on Saturday and it was nice talking to you.

John


seajai MSG #201, 06-05-2013 10:58 PM
      Got my NOS front calipers from calipersonline.com today. These were assembly line pieces and never boxed as replacement parts, they are in great condition and still look brand new.





I had to eliminate my e-brake because of my cradle mods so it's no big deal putting front calipers on the rear.

I am dropping the car off Thursday morning for exhaust work, I will post pics of the finished system.

Edit: Wow! I get page 6 too....what are the odds!

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-05-2013).]

David Hambleton (david.hambleton@cogeco.ca) MSG #202, 06-06-2013 02:43 PM
      Amazing thread - kudos to the genius that can make this kind of transplant successfully! I'm dragging my heels on an '87 Duke swap into an '86 Duke. Shame on me!

I wonder what percentage of E brakes are actually functional. I prefer to have them even on auto trans vehicles. The E brake has to work to pass the safety certificate for ownership transfer. I've seen some cars with separate parking brake calipers. I guess if you wanted to sell it, you could sell uncertified...

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 06-06-2013).]

TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #203, 06-06-2013 02:50 PM
      Just ordered me the same front & rear set from same location...thanks for the post!
I am using them with my e-brake and they are going on an 86GT with BMWGuru's adaptors!


seajai MSG #204, 06-06-2013 04:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

Amazing thread - kudos to the genius that can make this kind of transplant successfully! I'm dragging my heels on an '87 Duke swap into an '86 Duke. Shame on me!

I wonder what percentage of E brakes are actually functional. I prefer to have them even on auto trans vehicles. The E brake has to work to pass the safety certificate for ownership transfer. I've seen some cars with separate parking brake calipers. I guess if you wanted to sell it, you could sell uncertified...



My cables were all in pretty good shape, but mine isn't a rust belt car. Among the many nice things about living in Minnesota is no emissions testing (thanks Jessie Ventura), and no vehicle safety inspections ( except for commercial vehicles), so the lack of an e-brake isn't an issue.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-06-2013).]

David Hambleton (david.hambleton@cogeco.ca) MSG #205, 06-06-2013 08:08 PM
      I'm surprised there is anyplace in North America that you can get license plates for a vehicle without a safety inspection certificate. I'd be a little concerned about used vehicle sales to unsuspecting purchasers...

A little internet research revealed there are 30 states not requiring safety certificates to get license plates. Hmmmm......

Do the insurance companies charge more for the 'uncertified' vehicles?

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 06-06-2013).]

seajai MSG #206, 06-07-2013 12:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

Do the insurance companies charge more for the 'uncertified' vehicles?



There a few dealerships offering "certified" used cars, but that is purely an in-house inspection to make sure what they sell is in good shape. Plus it's a good sales gimmick. As far as I know, insurance rates in MN are based mainly upon a persons driving record and the type of vehicle insured and not the mechanical quality of said vehicle.


carbon MSG #207, 06-07-2013 08:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

I'm surprised there is anyplace in North America that you can get license plates for a vehicle without a safety inspection certificate. I'd be a little concerned about used vehicle sales to unsuspecting purchasers...



Rust kills them so fast here that some are off the road before they hit 100,000 miles. We haven't had testing in MN since the mid 90s... we do have a 'lemon law' however, so its in the best interest of sellers to make sure the car is in decent shape before the sale.


seajai MSG #208, 06-08-2013 11:52 PM
      Update: It's been a week now since I got her back on the road. The 3.5HO engine revs to 6500 rpm and has a manifold tuning valve and a short runner valve that changes the airflow through the intake above 5000 rpm. The result is this engine just pulls hard and smooth all the way from idle to redline, making it a helluva lot of fun to drive. Filled the tank today, 7.3 gallons for 139 miles driven, so just under 20 mpg. Pretty good considering there has been more than a handful of full throttle runs, and plenty of idling while I worked out a few bugs. TorquePro indicates instant fuel economy around 25 while cruising on the highway. The engine is turning about 2100 rpm at 65 mph so I anticipate decent highway mileage if I can keep my foot out of it.

Been dealing with a cooling system issue, the SAAB coolant tank has a 20lb cap and the cap on the radiator was only 15lbs. When the front cap would try and vent, it would leak out around the cap because I had plugged the overflow port. I ended up plugging the radiator opening with a Dorman rubber expansion plug which so far has cured my leak problem. I can't find a 15lb threaded cap to fit the SAAB tank so I may go back to the pick n pull to look for a different coolant tank that uses a standard cap. I'm not sure what the long term effects would be of running a system at a higher pressure than stock.

Got my exhaust done by Tim's Custom Exhaust in Anoka. They did a great job of fitting it all in, it's amazing how little room there is. The twin MagnaFlow mufflers sound sweet with a nice mellow tone when driving normally and a good bark when the loud pedal hits the carpet. Stay tuned for an updated video...

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-08-2013).]

donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #209, 06-09-2013 12:18 AM
      At 65mph in my 300M I'm right at 2100rpm too. My car gets 25mpg on the highway all day long so I expect you will fare a bit better than that. I was expecting more in the 30 range for you. I'm very impressed with this build and have been following it since the start. I would love to see this beast in person. I know how well this motor pulls my 300 and can't even imagine what it does for a fiero! Good job can't wait for the video with the exhaust on it.

seajai MSG #210, 06-09-2013 09:33 PM
      Swapped out the SAAB coolant tank for a Saturn one with a 16# cap instead of the 20 pounder.



Took this pic, thought it looked cool. Think it may become my new avatar.



BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #211, 06-09-2013 10:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Update: It's been a week now since I got her back on the road. The 3.5HO engine revs to 6500 rpm and has a manifold tuning valve and a short runner valve that changes the airflow through the intake above 5000 rpm. The result is this engine just pulls hard and smooth all the way from idle to redline, making it a helluva lot of fun to drive. Filled the tank today, 7.3 gallons for 139 miles driven, so just under 20 mpg. Pretty good considering there has been more than a handful of full throttle runs, and plenty of idling while I worked out a few bugs. TorquePro indicates instant fuel economy around 25 while cruising on the highway. The engine is turning about 2100 rpm at 65 mph so I anticipate decent highway mileage if I can keep my foot out of it.

Been dealing with a cooling system issue, the SAAB coolant tank has a 20lb cap and the cap on the radiator was only 15lbs. When the front cap would try and vent, it would leak out around the cap because I had plugged the overflow port. I ended up plugging the radiator opening with a Dorman rubber expansion plug which so far has cured my leak problem. I can't find a 15lb threaded cap to fit the SAAB tank so I may go back to the pick n pull to look for a different coolant tank that uses a standard cap. I'm not sure what the long term effects would be of running a system at a higher pressure than stock.

Got my exhaust done by Tim's Custom Exhaust in Anoka. They did a great job of fitting it all in, it's amazing how little room there is. The twin MagnaFlow mufflers sound sweet with a nice mellow tone when driving normally and a good bark when the loud pedal hits the carpet. Stay tuned for an updated video...





Some may not like it, but I love the way fabricated (cut & weld vs U & J bends) exhaust looks.


seajai MSG #212, 06-13-2013 06:51 PM
      Engine wouldn't start today after a quick 10 min stop at the auto parts store. First time that has happened, pretty warm today, think it may be a heat soak issue. Started again after leaving the trunk lid open for 10 minutes. Thinking I may need to add a couple decklid vents to let the heat out. Any suggestions?

Jake_Dragon MSG #213, 06-13-2013 07:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Engine wouldn't start today after a quick 10 min stop at the auto parts store. First time that has happened, pretty warm today, think it may be a heat soak issue. Started again after leaving the trunk lid open for 10 minutes. Thinking I may need to add a couple decklid vents to let the heat out. Any suggestions?



Obviously it was just sitting on the car, I cut the flange off and it fit the deck lid pretty well.

I assume that you also have the stock side vent, I put some Archie rockers on to add air flow.

Scoops in the windows

Also a big vent for the radiator

My car will hold 190 under normal driving and on ocasion has hit 210 under very spirited driving but the fan will pull it back off after I get out of it.
Thanks for sharing your build, its very out of the box. Well done.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 06-13-2013).]

seajai MSG #214, 06-13-2013 07:58 PM
      My car will run down the road all day at 195-198 deg and never higher than 213 when idling in traffic. I think I need something to let the heat rise out of the engine compartment when parked. A scoop would be cool, seen a couple pics of 84 center decklid vent being retrofit too.

Jake_Dragon MSG #215, 06-14-2013 09:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

My car will run down the road all day at 195-198 deg and never higher than 213 when idling in traffic. I think I need something to let the heat rise out of the engine compartment when parked. A scoop would be cool, seen a couple pics of 84 center decklid vent being retrofit too.


Just make sure that you can get air flow in as well as out.
There was a reproduction in fiberglass but I don't recall who sold it.


Jake_Dragon MSG #216, 06-15-2013 09:25 PM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089703.html
Here is one of the vents I was thinking about


seajai MSG #217, 06-16-2013 02:01 AM
      Yeah, I was eying up that one too. Although I really like the custom vent that SkiTime did on his car too. Decisions, decisions........

Edit: WooHoo!, my thread made it into the construction zone.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-16-2013).]

carbon MSG #218, 06-16-2013 11:04 AM
     

seajai MSG #219, 06-18-2013 01:40 AM
      Car had a seizure on the freeway today and left me stranded against the concrete center divider. The engine just shut off and the PRNDL and odometer displays went dark, the speedo went to 120, the odometer display came back on with a "no bus" message for a few seconds, and then went back to normal. When I tried to restart, the starter would stutter like the relay was shutting off and the PRNDL and odometer displays would blink in unison. Opened the trunk lid and let things cool for about 10 minutes or so, hoping not to get rear-ended as I sat there. After a few failed attempts, the engine started and ran fine the rest of the trip. I know there are a few 300M owners out there in Fiero land, anybody ever experience something similar? It's pretty tough to find any useable diagnostic info about this engine on the web. Best I could tell, it may be a failing crank sensor.

I've got about 350 miles on it so far, and It's been a fun car to drive, but there are a few bugs popping up I need to deal with.
The stalling / no start issue.
I think I have a wheel bearing going bad.
The radiator has had trouble keeping up at 70mph on the freeway the last couple warm days, it runs 197-199 when the temps are cool but Sunday when it was 85 and sunny it was 208-212. So I think I may get a Champion 3-row aluminum Radiator to remedy that.
My engine has developed an incontinence problem and will randomly leave a small coolant spot on the garage floor, it's never more than a tablespoonful. I think my new waterpump from O'reillys is the culprit. (That one irks me because I wasn't particularly sanguine about using the MasterPro brand went for it anyway). Since I'd hafta pull the engine out to replace it, I'm gonna let it go for now because it only dribbles after the engine has cooled down.


kennn (kbrooksarchitect@cox.net) MSG #220, 06-18-2013 10:13 AM
      You may have already explored this, but I wonder if there could be a grounding issue.

Ken



donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #221, 06-25-2013 09:36 PM
      Any updates yet?

Gary W (gary.wanamaker2@gmail.com) MSG #222, 06-25-2013 10:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Car had a seizure on the freeway today and left me stranded against the concrete center divider. The engine just shut off and the PRNDL and odometer displays went dark, the speedo went to 120, the odometer display came back on with a "no bus" message for a few seconds, and then went back to normal. When I tried to restart, the starter would stutter like the relay was shutting off and the PRNDL and odometer displays would blink in unison. Opened the trunk lid and let things cool for about 10 minutes or so, hoping not to get rear-ended as I sat there. After a few failed attempts, the engine started and ran fine the rest of the trip. I know there are a few 300M owners out there in Fiero land, anybody ever experience something similar? It's pretty tough to find any useable diagnostic info about this engine on the web. Best I could tell, it may be a failing crank sensor.



My boss had a 300M that did the exact same thing. It was a crank sensor.


seajai MSG #223, 06-25-2013 11:19 PM
      Finally got around to installing the new crank sensor tonight. As a test, I tugged on harnesses and wire connectors with the engine running to check for a loose connection or bad wire but the engine didn't miss a beat, so hopefully the sensor fixes it. Drove it for the first time since Thursday last week, life always gets so busy and it cuts into my Fiero time.

This project come full circle today with the disposal of the donor car. It's been in my driveway and in my garage for the last 10 months, it's weird not to see it around anymore. I paid $1500 for the car, sold around $400 worth of parts, and got $189 when I scrapped it today, so I'm into it for a shade over a grand. I probably spent another $1100-$1200 bucks in parts and steel. So my grand total is about $2200, not too bad I think.

The car comes home:



The car goes bye-bye:

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-25-2013).]

seajai MSG #224, 07-01-2013 12:22 AM
      A short video of the finished product. Hope you like it.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 07-01-2013).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #225, 07-01-2013 04:49 PM
      Great job. Looks awesome. Watch out for the potholes, though.

Bob


seajai MSG #226, 07-05-2013 12:28 AM
      Another project completed today.... I had been running an air filter right off the end of the intake boot as a temporary setup til i could decide on what I wanted to do. The problem with that setup was IAT readings of 125deg or more when idling around in traffic, and a lack of power because of it. I have been trying to decide between decklid scoop or an intake tube/remote filter, I really didn't want to cut a hole in my lid so I decided on a cold air intake tube. I had to custom make one seeing as nobody carries one for a Fiero with a Chrysler engine. I started out with a 6' length of 3.5" dia exhaust pipe. The curved sections are welded up from a series of pie shaped wedges. The welds were ground smooth and the pipes painted. I built it in 3 sections to make it easier to install and connected them together with rubber pipe couplers. I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, but I'm thinking my IAT #'s should be a lot lower. Eventually there will be a couple of Fiero Fiberglass open side scoops to feed even more cool air to the filter but that's another day.......



[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 07-05-2013).]

seajai MSG #227, 07-11-2013 09:35 AM
      Got the car weighed.

LF= 579 RF= 605 Total front= 1184
LR= 873 RR= 825 Total rear= 1698

That gives me a 59% rear weight bias, and an overall weight of 2882 pounds without the driver and a half tank of fuel.


Xyster MSG #228, 07-12-2013 12:50 AM
      I love the way that engine bay looks. I can't think of anything uglier than a transverse motor in a car intended to perform.

Normally I dislike an engine/car manufacturer mismatch, but I think you found a very appropriately matched combo.

+1


seajai MSG #229, 07-18-2013 08:04 AM
      Installed a receiver hitch in preparation for the trip to The Tyler show. I decided to mount it to my rear transmission cross member and just use an offset ball mount to bring it up. I wanted to make the hitch removable, so step one was to make up some weld nuts. I just welded some grade 8 nuts to a piece of bar stock and cut them into pieces.



I drilled the mounting hole along with 2 smaller flanking holes.



I slipped the nut inside the cross member, plug welded it in place, and ground the welds flush.



Mounted to the cross member. To make the hitch I bought a bare weld-in receiver tube and welded it to a piece of 3/16" plate that had been bent 90 deg.



A pic with the bumper cover reinstalled. I welded the loops shut on a couple eye bolts and installed them for safety chain holders.



Got the new Champion 3 core radiator installed as well. Only $199 bucks on ebay and free shipping to boot! Had to modify the rubber mounts as well as the upper radiator bracket but it fits quite nicely.





Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #230, 07-19-2013 04:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

A short video of the finished product. Hope you like it.


I like it, but my right ear feels cheated.


katore8105 MSG #231, 08-01-2013 10:00 AM
      I've been watching this build since the beginning. What a fantastic job you're doing! I can't wait to see it drive!



seajai MSG #232, 08-01-2013 05:52 PM
      Put on almost 500 miles last weekend with the trip to Frazee and back for the Tyler show. The car ran great, got 26 MPG, and didn't give me a lick of trouble the entire time. There isn't too much happening build-wise right now, I'm just enjoying the hell outta the car and doing a few oddsy-endsy things to it. There are plenty of things on the to-do list for this winter though.

seajai MSG #233, 08-03-2013 05:33 PM
      I finally got around to installing my deck lid struts ( thanks Blake). I've got the modified hinge mounts and found I needed to add an extra brace to the hinge to stop them from flexing the firewall and skewing the deck lid when shut. Originally I used the SG304046 strut, but with no wing the deck lid was like a catapult. After much Google-ing, I found a 65# rated strut that worked great. I used the Stabilus ball stud kit # SG900001 $3.29 from O'Reilly's and the Stabilus SG 459027 lift strut $18.99 from O'Reilly's. I decided not to use a bracket and mounted the ball stud to the strut tower.





seajai MSG #234, 08-11-2013 11:48 PM
      Finally got my 90mm Hella projectors installed. They look pretty sweet and they really light the road from shoulder to shoulder.





seajai MSG #235, 09-11-2013 12:08 AM
      I was never completely happy with the white faced gauges and the electroluminescent backlighting. The white faces didn't fit with the style of the car and at night the EL was too bright and I had no way to dim it. On a recent trip to the pick-n-pull, I spotted some black faced gauges in a 2002 Chrysler Concorde. I liked the look and the cluster looked to be the same size as the 300M cluster so for $21 bucks I grabbed it. The Concorde gauges plugged right in to the 300 cluster and worked fine. I added some flexible LED light strip to backlight the new gauges.



Cluster before:





Cluster after:





CPR85Fiero (mastercarstech@gmail.com) MSG #236, 09-18-2013 10:25 PM
      Great build Seajai! took me almost a week on and off to read the whole thing but well worth the time! Great out of the box thinking and problem solving! Very well done, hel[ping me come up with some out of the box ideas of my own. Hehe!

DotTC MSG #237, 09-19-2013 01:15 AM
      Downright beautiful Makes me want my "GT" on the road so much more



Francis T (rspiderii@aol.com) MSG #238, 11-05-2013 01:52 AM
      I one of those engines in my big Chry and it halls as* should make your GT fly an dget great gas millage. Good luck the project.



seajai MSG #239, 11-11-2013 10:59 PM
      Well, the weather is cold and the fuel tank is empty so I have made the decision to call it a season for the Fiero. It was a quick 5 months that included a few car shows, including a trip to Frazee, and a 750 mile round trip to Illinois to pick up a part from Fiero Thomas. Total miles driven: 5200, number of breakdowns: 1 failed crank sensor (two if you count the damn wheel incident). I wanted to go for one last drive tonight but the battery was stone dead from sitting in the cold the last couple weeks, which meant my last drive was me pushing it into the garage. I am planning on pulling the engine apart to clean, paint, and replace anything that looks worn. I also plan on having the throttle body bored out to 70mm and installing an intake plenum spacer which is supposed to improve mid-range torque. The transmission is going to get a new transfer chain and sprockets to change the final drive gear ratio from 3.66 to 3.89, this should give me a little more punch out of the hole and combined with the engine mods hopefully will get my 0-60 times under 6 seconds. There is a dash swap in there somewhere as well and I am hoping to paint too if the money holds out.

Stay tuned.....


carbon MSG #240, 11-12-2013 10:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Cluster after:





Oh that is so much better!! Looks great!


seajai MSG #241, 01-12-2014 08:08 PM
      Well, after a couple months of ignoring my car, I'm finally getting going on a few winter projects. I've been contemplating a donor for my dash swap all summer long. After a lot of looking at pics and a few trips to the junk yard to make measurements, I decided on the 1991-1996 Toyota Camry. The width is very close to the Fiero dash, and the curve at the windshield is within a 1/4" of matching perfectly. The bottom flares out a bit and will require some trimming. This particular example came from a 1992 model so it does not have a passenger side air bag, and the color is only a shade off of the Pontiac color. I think like the look, and feel that the size of the dash is in scale with the rest of the interior.





Wow! I got page 7 too!

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 01-16-2014).]

Stubby79 MSG #242, 01-13-2014 11:15 AM
     

Looks like it belongs there!


85sliverGT (zymogenesyst@hotmail.com) MSG #243, 01-13-2014 07:05 PM
      Sweet, that does fit well!

[This message has been edited by 85sliverGT (edited 01-13-2014).]

BrittB MSG #244, 01-22-2014 09:28 PM
      Read this thread from day one until now, very cool! One thing I was wondering is would it have made any difference if the chassis would have been stretched say 6 inches in the rear? Wondering if it would have made it easier to get clearance from the firewall and axle alignment.

seajai MSG #245, 02-01-2014 09:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BrittB:

Read this thread from day one until now, very cool! One thing I was wondering is would it have made any difference if the chassis would have been stretched say 6 inches in the rear? Wondering if it would have made it easier to get clearance from the firewall and axle alignment.


I'm about and inch into the firewall and 2.5" axle offset so a stretch on 4" would have been sufficient. The issue with that is a change in the outward appearance of the car. The goal of the swap was to step outside the box of the normal swap to try something that hasn't been done before without changing how the car looks. The double takes by people when they see it at a car show makes me think my goal was met.
With 5000+ miles on the swap, the only axle alignment issue is a bit of a shudder under hard acceleration, normal driving is unaffected. I believe this is being caused by the inner tripod joint operating at the upper limits if it's offset angle. I would like to change the inner joints from a tripod to a Rzeppa design, I believe this would eliminate my shudder issue, but will require custom flanges on the trans and a hybrid Porsche-Pontiac axle shaft. I'm still looking into that.


Blacktree (m.blacktree@gmail.com) MSG #246, 02-05-2014 01:17 AM
      I love how the engine looks in the engine bay. It just looks "right". Next time I look at the sideways engine in my Fiero, I'm going to do this --->

PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #247, 02-08-2014 11:36 PM
      I like how you left out the quarter glass. Kinda reminds me of a Maserati Merak with its rear buttresses. Good job!

seajai MSG #248, 02-09-2014 09:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PatrickTRoof:

I like how you left out the quarter glass. Kinda reminds me of a Maserati Merak with its rear buttresses. Good job!


Thanks

I'll have to admit though, leaving out the quarter glass was not done as a design element, rather it was because I broke them in the process of removing the rear clip. However, it did make access to the new coolant tank and other electronics more convenient. I'm thinking about using the open sail windows from Fiero Fiberglass to give it a finished look.



PatrickTRoof (roof.patrick@gmail.com) MSG #249, 02-09-2014 10:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


Thanks

I'll have to admit though, leaving out the quarter glass was not done as a design element, rather it was because I broke them in the process of removing the rear clip.


Well, you did a good job of hiding it! I learned, if something is broken, clean it up and paint it, and it will look like it's supposed to be that way!



JayinMI MSG #250, 03-02-2014 12:42 PM
      For other people considering doing a swap requiring interfacing with a transponder key system,
you might consider looking at some of the interface modules for remote starts. You could wire it in, program it,
then basically wire it to come on whenever you power the ignition on, instead of triggering off of a remote start.
You can typically get them for around $50-80. In many cases, they aren't required since you can relocate the "antenna"
somewhere else and just put the key inside it, but it's something to consider for other apps where that might not be an option.

Just a thought.

Jay


seajai MSG #251, 03-02-2014 10:59 PM
      A little more work on the dash swap.
The Chrysler instrument cluster will not fit in the Toyota dash so i need to build a hybrid cluster using both Toyota and Chrysler parts. Starting off, I disassembled the Toyota cluster to see what I had to work with. The Toyota gauges use a similar magnetic type gauge as the Chrysler and have the same amount of "sweep".



I was able to remove the Toyota gauge acutator and replace it with the Chrysler unit. I had to drill out the Toyota pointer to fit, this is the result:



I repeated the process for all the gauges and after modifying the housing, this is the result:





The Chrysler PC board will not fit in the Toyota housing so I am going to remotely mount it and run wires over to the gauges. Also, I am installing 300M special 3:89 gears and computers along with a 150 MPH speedometer (which was standard on the 300M special) so I will need to make custom gauge faces for the tach and speedo. And I need to find a new home for the odometer and gear indicator as well. These are a digital display and are mounted on a separate PC board so that may prove to be a PITA.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 03-02-2014).]

donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #252, 03-03-2014 07:28 AM
      Very impressive!

carbon MSG #253, 03-03-2014 02:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Also, I am installing 300M special 3:89 gears and computers along with a 150 MPH speedometer (which was standard on the 300M special) so I will need to make custom gauge faces for the tach and speedo.





The 3.89 gears with that engine drug the 300m down the 1/4 by the front wheels in 15.9s... with a 1000lbs less weight and a mid/rear drivetrain setup, that's going to be a fun Fiero this season.

How hard is it to get at the diff on that trans?


seajai MSG #254, 03-03-2014 03:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:




The 3.89 gears with that engine drug the 300m down the 1/4 by the front wheels in 15.9s... with a 1000lbs less weight and a mid/rear drivetrain setup, that's going to be a fun Fiero this season.

How hard is it to get at the diff on that trans?


All that is needed to change gear ratios on the 42LE transmission is a transfer chain sprocket swap. So I just need to pull the bumper cover and reinforcement and the chain cover is right there. My box of computers just showed up today too, now I just need the sprockets and I'm ready to go.



BrittB MSG #255, 03-03-2014 08:10 PM
      Very cool!

2.5 MSG #256, 03-05-2014 04:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:


Thanks

I'll have to admit though, leaving out the quarter glass was not done as a design element, rather it was because I broke them in the process of removing the rear clip. However, it did make access to the new coolant tank and other electronics more convenient. I'm thinking about using the open sail windows from Fiero Fiberglass to give it a finished look.



Put some on hinges maybe?


seajai MSG #257, 03-06-2014 12:51 AM
      Finally have all the parts needed to switch to a 3:89 gear ratio. The only way to get the speedometer to read correctly is to replace the PCM with the 3:89 ratio programmed into it. But all the computers have the VIN and security key code which means they all need to be replaced with ones from the same car.



I've been working on new speedo and tach faces to go in the Toyota cluster. I downloaded a full function trial version of Corel draw x6 to create the new faces, this is what I got so far:





It's just a rough draft a this point, I'm messing with the font style and graduation marking styles to get a feel on what I like.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 03-06-2014).]

seajai MSG #258, 03-06-2014 11:19 PM
      Made a couple more, I think I like this version better.





seajai MSG #259, 03-09-2014 11:19 PM
      I decided to go with the second version of the gauge faces with a few minor tweeks. After printing the faces on plain white paper, I set them on a light box to see how well the black blocked the light and determined 2 layers were needed.

The Toyota gauge faces are not flat so I needed to use them as a foundation for the new ones. First step was to remove the existing printing from the plastic face.



After printing 2 copies of each face on adhesive backed paper, I used the light box to properly align the 2 layers before sticking them together.





Here they are on the light box after assembly.





I then punched out the center hole and stuck them to the plastic substrate. I now have finished gauge faces but they are still just inkjet ink on paper and will need a little extra protection. I found this at my local art supply store:



It's a matte finish UV coating. I sprayed on a number of coats until I was happy with the look and here is the result: My Toyota cluster driven by Chrysler electronics ready to go into my Pontiac Fiero......



The center gauges look to be a different color than the side gauges but its just because the side ones are tilted slightly and the camera flash reflects differently. I put power to the backlighting and I think it will be plenty bright. I tried to take a picture but it didn't turn out.


carbon MSG #260, 03-10-2014 07:27 AM
      Awesome work!

seajai MSG #261, 03-22-2014 11:15 PM
      A little more progress on the dash swap. I decided to remote-mount the Chrysler cluster PC board on the passenger side above the glove box. I had a couple of extra clusters laying around so I cut down a plastic housing and mounted it to the dash.



The modified Toyota cluster mounted.



I needed to make four patch cords to connect the gauge actuators to the remote PC board which meant creating my own wire connectors. I purchased a copper clad PC board and etching chemical from my local Radio Shack. I then used a hole saw with the centering bit removed to make the discs for my connectors.



With a black Sharpie marker, I drew on the circuit paths and soaked the disc in the etching solution to remove the unwanted copper.



I removed the pins from an extra set of actuators I had and soldered them to the discs, added the wiring, and this is the result.



The pin ends will plug into the PC board. The ends for the gauges are similar. I removed the pin clips from an extra PC board I had.



Laid out for and drilled the holes.



Etched the part.



Installed and soldered the clips in place. The solder job isn't the neatest, I'm having issues with my iron not heating evenly.





After everything is tested and working properly, I will encase the ends in epoxy resin to prevent any chance of a short circuit.

More to come.........


Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #262, 03-23-2014 08:02 AM
      Very nice job! I'm still amazed at the melding of all the non-GM parts that you do. -Jason

seajai MSG #263, 03-23-2014 11:25 PM
      Finished fabricating my connectors and patch cords today. I also had to remove the trip odometer reset switch from the cluster PC board and wire it for a remote location install.



I plugged the cluster into the car wiring and set up my gauges to test the operation and zero out the pointers.



Much to my relief, everything worked, even my remote trip reset button

So this is how it will look wired and mounted:







fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #264, 03-24-2014 10:33 AM
      Great work
Can't wait to see more.


seajai MSG #265, 04-07-2014 01:24 AM
      Got a little more work done on the dash swap this weekend. I had already fit the dash in the car but needed to cut off the old cluster mount to make room for the new cluster.



Then I had to make all the brackets to get it bolted in. The upper brackets are made from bent and welded sheet metal. They attach to the old dash mounting points.





To make the lower brackets, I used 5/16" steel rod and 1/8" plate that I drilled and tapped to accept the factory hardware.

Middle:


Left:


A pic of the left side installed:


The right side is similar to the others.

Here is a couple pics of the dash all bolted in and a few pieces installed:





I went to the LKQ pick and pull today and picked up a steering column from a 2003 Grand Am. I need to adapt the Fiero headlight switch to work with the column mounted Grand Am one. The wiper and turn signal switch wiring will have to be redone as well. Stay tuned.......


carbon MSG #266, 04-07-2014 10:21 AM
      As the owner of a 2003 Grand Am GT... why did you select the GA column? The lack of a integrated ignition switch?

seajai MSG #267, 04-07-2014 12:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

As the owner of a 2003 Grand Am GT... why did you select the GA column? The lack of a integrated ignition switch?


Yeah, because I have a push button start ignition I wanted a key-less column. I chose the Grand Am because of the size of the plastic surround, it fit the hole in the Toyota dash the best. My other choices were 2004 and newer Bonneville or Grand Prix but the surrounds were too wide.


seajai MSG #268, 04-08-2014 08:44 AM
      Got the steering column installed:





I had to make a couple adapter brackets, the front one is a piece of 3/16" steel with a 90deg bend. For the rear I used the saddle portion of an exhaust pipe clamp welded to the tube with a plate that bolts the original mounting studs.

Front:



Rear:



For the lower steering shaft, I removed the old end and U-joint, bored out the cap holes to 5'8" and installed the Grand Am U-joint and end.



Next up: wiring in the new combination switch

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 04-08-2014).]

TXOPIE (tx.opie@gmail.com) MSG #269, 04-08-2014 11:22 AM
      Looking Awesome!

seajai MSG #270, 04-14-2014 01:32 AM
      Well it was a productive weekend, I got the Grand Am combo switch and the Toyota hazard switches all wired in and tested. The easiest one to do was the turn signals, it's pretty much just hooking up the same color wires from the Fiero to the Grand Am. The hazard switch was hooked into the turn signal wires through a couple diodes to prevent any power back feeding issues.

The headlights were a little more work. The problem to overcome was the Grand Am didn't have headlight doors and the switch wasn't set up for them. To solve this, I tied the high and low beam wires together through a pair of diodes and used that voltage to feed the "doors open" yellow wire to the headlight module. The white "doors close" wire needed a voltage signal when the headlights are turned off, I accomplished this through the use of a relay. I tapped power from the orange park lights feed wire and ran it to the "30" contact on the relay. The white wire is hooked to the "87a" N/C contact which gives me power on the white wire to run the doors down. The control side of the relay is hooked the headlight power wire. When the headlights are switched on, the relay powers up, opening the 87a contact and killing power on the white wire. When the headlights are shut off, the relay powers down restoring power on the white wire and closing the doors.

The Grand Am was equipped with automatic headlights, this gave me the opportunity to use the Grand Prix automatic headlamp module I picked up a couple years ago. It has separate outputs for headlights and park lights. The headlight output goes to a terminal on the headlight switch, the other taps into the parklight circuit. I need to mount the sensor in the top of the dash yet.
So I'm pretty sure I own the only Fiero with automatic headlights.

Here is a pic of the auto headlamp module and headlight door relay mounted in place:



I added a bypass switch to disable the automatic headlights in case I need to sneak away some night without being spotted. The switch has an LED that lights up when the system is bypass mode. I also needed to add a dash light dimmer wheel as well since the headlight switch is now on the steering column. I found a remote dimmer wheel from a 97 Olds Alero that I liked, it works off a remote dimmer transistor just the Fiero one. I mounted it in a blank panel in the dash trim. Here is a pic of the dimmer wheel and bypass switch:



Now the wiper switch was a tough one. The wiper system on the Grand Am uses an extra wire on the switch for the delay mode, a different resistor value, and different outputs for low and high speed. To make it work on the Fiero, I needed to hook the low speed and the delay wires together, but this caused the resistance to drop to zero in low speed when it should have been 1k OHM. After taking the switch apart and figuring out what contacts connected to what, I was able to modify it to work. First off I needed to swap out the 24k OHM resistor with a 1k OHM one to match the Fiero switch. Secondly I needed to isolate an area of contact by cutting through the plastic and copper and then relocate an end of the 1k resistor to that area. This should have given me the correct resistance in "low", but when I checked it was reading through the delay resistors instead. I figured out I needed to insulate an area of the copper to prevent the sliding contact from touching and giving me the wrong readings. I used JB weld to accomplish this. I reassembled the switch and retested the readings, they were now the same as the original Fiero wiper switch. I hooked everything up and tested the wipers, much to my relief everything works perfectly.

Here is a pic showing the switch modifications. It's a little tough to see everything but ya get the gist of things.



I grabbed a Chrysler trunk release button and mounted it to a lower panel trim cover.



I still need to extend the harness to the remote cluster and hook up the turn signals and illumination to the Toyota cluster but the electrical portion of the adventure is getting close to being finished.


seajai MSG #271, 04-25-2014 02:31 AM
      The dash project keeps rolling along. Originally I was just going to use the Fiero HVAC controls mounted in the Toyota dash, but after a couple tries, I just didn't like the way they looked so I decided to scrap that idea and use the Toyota push button HVAC control. The problem with that plan was that Toyota designed their system to operate by switching the ground side of the circuit whereas the Fiero works by switching the positive side. This means I needed to make some sort of interface to go between Toyota and Fiero. The blower motor side of things was a somewhat easy solution, I just installed a GM blower switch. The hard part was finding one with 4 speeds and an "OFF" position that fit properly. After a couple hours wandering around the pick-n-pull, I found this one:



It's from a 1997 Chevy Monte Carlo and fits nicely in the Toyota HVAC with only slight modifications.



The mode door switches were a different story...... Since the internal circuitry was set up for ground side switching, I needed to build a relay module to make it work. The way it works is that when a button is pushed on the Toyota HVAC control it turns the appropriate relay on or off, the relay then switches power to the mode and recirc doors.

To get started, I purchased a bunch of 15amp micro relays from DigiKey, these will stand in for the old Fiero push buttons. Next I needed to make a PC board to mount them to and keep the wiring simple and organized. I also designed the board to use the factory connector which saved me a lot of soldering time. First I laid out and drilled the holes for the relays and then used a Sharpie marker to draw in the circuit paths. After a short dip in the etching solution, this is the result:



I then soldered on the relays and attached the Toyota wiring connector. I also transferred the two PTC thermistors from the Fiero board to my board to try and keep things like OEM.





I needed to switch a few wires around in the factory connector to line up with the way I laid out circuits on my board. I plugged it in, turned on the power, and crossed my fingers..... much to my relief, everything works perfectly! All the modes switch as they should and the recirc door opens and closes. I still need to buy a plastic project box from Radio Shack to mount my board in to protect it but this part of the project is done.


donnie072003 (donnie072003@yahoo.com) MSG #272, 04-25-2014 06:59 AM
      Pontiac, Chrysler, GM and Toyota. Pretty impressive how mated it all together!

seajai MSG #273, 05-04-2014 08:21 PM
      So with the heater controls figured out, it was on to the air delivery. The windshield defrost and floor vents weren't an issue because they're part of the car half of the air box, the side window defrosters and dash vents required a little bit of work. First off i removed the ductwork from the dash and cut out the center section, I then shortened it and boxed in the ends and added round ports for flexible ducting.



For the dash vents, I cut off the Toyota pieces, plastic welded on a couple bottoms and installed round ports.



Once the dash was installed for the last time, I hooked up the vents with flex hose. For the side window defrosters I used 1-1/4" vacuum cleaner hose. For the dash vents I used 2" vent hose made by Dorman. It was some very nice stuff and worked quite well. http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-20898-96002.aspx

I had to cut 4" of depth out of the glove box insert to get it to fit. I sectioned the back piece and plastic welded it back together. I used the waste to cut pieces to fill the gaps left by sectioning.



This was a lot of work to go through just to get a glove box but I am really happy with the results. I still need to work on the center console and build door panels but for now I think I will just drive and enjoy it. Here are 3 pics of the finished product:








carbon MSG #274, 05-05-2014 09:45 AM
      Damn... that is a lot of integration.

That is all.


seajai MSG #275, 05-14-2014 11:24 PM
      2 weeks to the Dells and my engine has started hemorrhaging oil. Lifted it up and let it idle with the inspection cover removed, looks like its the rear main seal leaking. I designed the rear cross member to be removed independent of the cradle so I can pull the transmission without removing the engine or cradle......looks like I get to test my design.



seajai MSG #276, 05-19-2014 12:50 AM
      My design worked well, only took a couple hours to remove the transmission. With my high lift jack and a set of tall jackstands I was able to get my car up nice and high, which makes working on it pretty easy.



Spent $50 on a transmission adapter for my floor jack. I'd have to say it was the best$50 bucks I've ever spent.



Plenty of room to work now. I replaced the camshaft thrust plate gaskets as well since both were also leaking.



Got it all put back together and let it run for a little bit and didn't see any leaks, hopefully the seal takes care of it because the oil pan gasket will be a big PITA if it needs to be replaced.


carbon MSG #277, 05-19-2014 08:44 AM
     

infinitewill MSG #278, 05-19-2014 06:31 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-05-2016).]

seajai MSG #279, 06-16-2014 11:34 PM
      Had an inner C/V boot tear open on the highway yesterday, sprayed grease all over everything including my right side catalytic converter. I had to pull over because I thought the car was burning. At least it was a cheap fix, $17 for a boot and an hour to swap it out.

Also got my Fiero Fiberglass sail windows wrapped in 3M carbon fiber vinyl and installed on the car:



[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 06-16-2014).]

fierogtlt1 (fierogtlt1@bellsouth.net) MSG #280, 06-16-2014 11:48 PM
      Those Sail Panels look AWESOME...

seajai MSG #281, 07-23-2014 12:11 AM
      Edit: Got pages 5,6,7 and now 8 too....what are the odds...

Couple more projects completed:

New trunk floor. Used the original trunk carpet for the sides and a piece on indoor-outdoor for the bottom.



When I replaced the torn inner C/V boot last month I noticed my cobbled together junkyard axles were starting to get a little loose so I decided it was time to bite the bullet and spend the big bucks on a pair of custom axles. Ever since the swap I've had a driveline shudder on acceleration caused by the offset angle of the axle shafts. The inner tripod joints were running at 7deg (L) and 11deg (R) which is at the upper limit of what they can handle. The solution was to replace the inner tripod joints with a ball and cage style C/V joint which can handle the angle and will operate smoothly.

The Driveshaft Shop makes their own billet inner C/V housing



I just sent them a couple of Chrysler inner tripod joints and they cut and welded the splined portion on to their C/V joints. The axles are custom length and the outer C/V joints are brand new as well. The pair was $899 bucks plus shipping. Got 'em installed and went for a drive, what a difference! No more shudder and shake, just glass smooth acceleration from idle all the way to redline.



[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 07-23-2014).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #282, 07-24-2014 06:50 AM
      That's a handy solution to one of the biggest swap issues... Thnx for sharing.

Bob


seajai MSG #283, 09-07-2014 05:28 PM
      Late summer update:

As seen in the post above, I dropped $900 smackers on a pair of custom axles and got them installed the day before the trip to Frazee. After about an hour in to the trip I started to smell something like oil burning, I thought it was one of the cars in front of me. When we made a stop, I notice some smoke from the engine area. There was CV joint grease spraying on my exhaust system! My new $900 axles had a leaky boot. I found a small hole that looked like it was put there when the band clamp was installed. I made a metal shield for the exhaust and used some RTV to try and plug the hole while at Shipmans and drove it home. I made a call to Driveshaft Shop and they sent me 2 new boots. Pretty easy to replace the boot and problem solved.

The Chrysler swap has been running pretty well all summer but has had some intermittent "hiccups". This spring I had it stall at a red light and it took me a few minutes to get it restarted. A couple months go by without a problem and then a stumble in the parking lot of a gas station on the way home from Dells. It made it to Frazee and back without incident. Then last week on the way to a show, The engine stumbled and the transmission downshifted to 2nd, I reved it a little and it straightened out. After a brief stop at Kwik Trip for beverage, I had trouble getting it started again. Once running and on the road, another stumble/downshift event, and then it ran fine the rest of the day. A couple days later, it stumbled, the gauges all went to zero, and the engine stalled. Had a helluva time getting it started but managed to limp it home. Now it barely runs...start, stall, spit,spudder......then nothing. No spark, weak/no injector pulse on the noid light. The way the Chrysler is set up is the coils and fuel injectors receive power through the auto shutdown relay and the PCM drivers ground to fire the coils and pulse the injectors. When I built the wiring harness, I used eyelet terminals with the heat shrink on the ends for the PCM/TCM grounds (5 wires in total). Well, come to find out, the heat shrink is worthless for sealing out moisture but perfect for hiding corrosion. I cut the covering off and whadda ya know.....white powdery corrosion everywhere! I installed new terminals and no more problems! Lesson learned.... no more using the terminals with the heat shrink ends.

The transmission has developed a new noise and has an old noise I thought was my old axles but apparently wasn't. Still haven't checked 'em out yet so not sure what's wrong there. Ahhh the joys of owning an old modified car....never a dull moment.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 09-07-2014).]

carbon MSG #284, 09-09-2014 10:30 AM
      There is heat shrink, and terminals similar to which you are speaking, that have a heat activated sealant inside...

Heat Shrink > Dual Wall (Adhesive Lined)

Edit: I suppose the open end of the crimp would still let in moisture... depends on the design, I guess.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 09-09-2014).]

LZeppelin513 (bjamestate@gmail.com) MSG #285, 09-28-2014 01:20 PM
      I just finished reading your thread from start to finish. WOW. Your innovation and broad range of talent is impressive. A big thank you for taking the time to post it all. Good luck as you near completing the build.

Bloozberry MSG #286, 02-08-2015 11:07 AM
      Me too... I can't believe I missed this thread all these years. The engine looks absolutely right in that bay... like an F355. Interestingly from the videos, it doesn't sound much different than a stock Fiero, so you could easily surprise someone at a stop light when those extra 120 ponies rear up. Gotta hand it to you... excellent idea, great workmanship, and lots of quality photos showing how you did it.

(Now paint that intake something more exciting than black! )


seajai MSG #287, 02-08-2015 09:32 PM
      Thank you so very much for the kind words, it means a lot!

Guess it's time for a mid-winter update:
The car is in storage right now, with a few projects still left to be completed. I just bought all new Moog rubber bushings to rebuild both front and rear suspension. Some of the other projects may need to be postponed due to a lack of funds. But I am hoping to get a start on my custom door panels.

I have been having problems with my $900 customs axles. After just a few hundred miles the right axle inner C/V started making a clicking noise on acceleration. Driveshaft shop uses Interparts to make their custom plunging inner C/V joints. The one on the left in the pic is what they used on my axles.



When I removed the axle, it seemed like there was excessive rotational play in the joint so I sent it back to Driveshaft Shop for a warranty repair. They sent it back saying they took it apart and inspected everything but didn't find anything worn or damaged, but they did use a different type of high-temp grease on reassembly. I re-installed the axle and it was quiet.....for about 300 miles....and it started clicking again. And now the left side inner C/V is clicking too. I'm running an offset on the axles but the inner C/V's should be able to handle it, the outer C/V's have the same angle and they're fine. So now I need to send them back again, hopefully this time they'll replace the joints. I'm pretty disappointed with the whole thing, I assumed for $900 I was going to get quality, trouble free axles but that hasn't been the case. Hell, my cobbled together $100 junk yard axles were quiet for 10,000 miles, they just shook on hard accel because the tripod joints and the high angle.

I was going to pull the engine and take it all apart to inspect everything and fix a couple oil leaks that have popped up, as well as paint and detail all the other parts including the plastic intake. But lack of funds may push that to next winter as well. I'll post plenty of pics when I get the suspension taken apart.


jscott1 MSG #288, 02-14-2015 04:23 AM
      I'm coming late to the party... loved what you did with the dash... wish I had seen that 14 years ago when I did my dash swap.



seajai MSG #289, 02-20-2015 06:10 PM
      Ok, so here we go, finally getting going on my suspension project.



Picked up all new MOOG bushings through rockauto .com, only $140 bucks for everything.
K6170 - front upper control arms, rear toe and lateral links.
K6163 - front lower control arms
K200102 - rear trailing arms (tenneco# 701930)



First off, the toe links. As you can see by the picture, the rubber of the bushing has slid out of place and the metal shell was rubbing on the mounting tabs.



To take things apart, I decided to first press out the metal sleeve inside the bushing. Once removed, it was easy to grab the rubber bushing with a pliers and remove it from the shell.



I then pressed out the shell and pressed the new bushing into place, easy schmezy.



Next up is the lateral link. The problem here is that the bushings are not designed to be replaced but the K6170's will fit with some modifications.
First, I removed the bushings the same way as the toe link.



The issue here is that the shoulder on the bushing shell won't let the bushing press in far enough, leaving it off center. The way I decided to get around this issue was to remove the shoulder from the shell and then remove the overhanging part of the rubber.



I used a shell from the old bushing to make an install tool for the new one. Removing the rubber "overhang" allows the tool to fit tight against the bushing.



And pressed the modified bushing into the lateral link



The new bushing has to be pressed in a little past the "flush" with the arm to center it. Here are a couple of pics of the installed bushing:





Next, the trailing arm. The bushings were pretty cracked.



Push out the center sleeve:



Bushing removed:



The new bushing installs quite easily. Just lube it up with some dawn dish soap and in it goes.



The K200102 bushing center sleeve I.D. is too large and the suspension bolt is loose in the bushing. The work-around for this is to have the old bushing sleeves turned down on a lathe to fit inside the new sleeve. I am currently having this done and will post a pic or two when I get them back this weekend.

And now on to the front.........

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 12-22-2016).]

seajai MSG #290, 02-22-2015 11:28 PM
      So my plan of having the old bushing sleeves machined down into spacers didn't work out.



Matt (gingerRT), was doing the machine work for me. Since the original idea didn't work out, he made up a set of spacers out of some heat treated tubing. They measure .640" OD by .563" ID by 1.876 long.



Spacers were .002" bigger than the sleeve so they pressed in easily:



Installed:



[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 02-22-2015).]

Lunatic (shaynes@rogers.com) MSG #291, 02-23-2015 05:13 AM
      Great work on the suspension! It's nice that you took the time to share with us. Was there a reason you chose rubber over poly? Just curious as I'm almost at that point as well.

seajai MSG #292, 02-23-2015 07:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lunatic:

Great work on the suspension! It's nice that you took the time to share with us. Was there a reason you chose rubber over poly? Just curious as I'm almost at that point as well.


Had poly front and rear in a previous car and didn't like the ride or the constant suspension squeaks.


Silicoan86 (jcoan86@yahoo.com) MSG #293, 02-27-2015 12:23 AM
      Thanks for posting the suspension bushing info Chris! I've been looking forward to seeing how it went after the discussion we had at last month's MFF meeting about it.

I picked up a rust free 88 coupe last weekend to swap my drivetrain into this spring, and I'll be looking to replace the worn suspension shortly after that so this should come in handy.

Jon


R.A.D MSG #294, 03-04-2015 07:27 PM
      excellent buid. one you should definately be proud of.

seajai MSG #295, 03-04-2015 09:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by R.A.D:

excellent buid. one you should definately be proud of.


Thanks It's definitely been a lot of fun blazing new trails with this project. Always fun to see the reactions at shows when people look under the hood trunk.


seajai MSG #296, 04-28-2015 09:12 PM
      Well spring is here and the car is back on the road. It was kind of a disappointing winter and I didn't accomplish nearly as many projects as I had planned. Lack of money and time conspired against me and all I managed to get done was replacing the bushings in the rear suspension and changing the oil . My axles were sent out and repaired by DriveShaft Shop for the 2nd time. This go-around they replaced all the internals in the inner joints so we'll see how long that lasts. Looking forward to a fun summer of car shows and Fiero events

seajai MSG #297, 07-17-2015 01:00 AM
      Gave the old girl a new dress and shoes.



engine man (fieroa8@gmail.com) MSG #298, 07-17-2015 09:08 PM
      looking good

cra1 (cransley1@gmail.com) MSG #299, 07-20-2015 05:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Gave the old girl a new dress and shoes.



I really like that tone of grey. Does it have a color code or name? Looks like plasti-dip from the picture, yea?


GTGeff MSG #300, 07-20-2015 10:34 PM
     
Looks even better in person.

Ok... I will go $351 plus the materials for my Formula job. I will remove body parts and help tape.

Jeff



seajai MSG #301, 07-20-2015 11:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTGeff:


Looks even better in person.

Ok... I will go $351 plus the materials for my Formula job. I will remove body parts and help tape.

Jeff


Deal.


seajai MSG #302, 03-21-2016 12:04 AM
      Spring 2016 update.

Hard to believe its been 3 years since I completed this swap and I've 3 years of almost trouble free motoring. But a few oil leaks have crept in and the time has come to repair them as well as a few other things. Last fall I purchased a Snap-On mid rise scissor lift in anticipation of this project. Removing the drivetrain from a Fiero with the aid of a lift is almost effortless, I wish I would have had one when I did the swap. I built a cart to hold the complete drivetrain and lifted the car off of it, easy-peasy.





Unfortunately I had a mishap with the lift last fall. The scissor lift has a stationary leg and a leg with rollers that moves toward the center as the lift raises. With the engine in the rear, I should have put the car on the lift with the stationary leg at the rear but I didn't. As I raised the car, the roller leg moved in changing the center of gravity and when the lift reached full height the car and lift tipped over backwards. This caused the nose of the car to crash into the ceiling of my garage, damaging the car and filling the air with sheetrock dust. As the car tipped, it spit the lift out the front and into my garage wall. Luckily I wasn't standing there or it probably would have been bad. The only damage was to the hood and bumper (and my nerves).





This mishap has lead to 2 more projects, sheetmetal and fiberglass repair, and re plasti-dipping my car due to the damage. Think I'm going to use the opportunity to change the color of my car......just not sure to which one. Leaning toward this color:

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


GreyElf (jhadorn1@gmail.com) MSG #303, 07-15-2016 12:53 PM
      One of my favorites! Any updates?

seajai MSG #304, 07-17-2016 11:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GreyElf:

One of my favorites! Any updates?


Not too much happening this summer. I ended up dipping the car Tahitian Green pearl back in May just before the Dells run. Wasn't as happy with the color as I thought I would be and now I'm having trouble with it lifting in areas. I'm trying to work out a deal to get my car painted with real paint this winter, we'll see how that goes. I deleted the catalytic converters this spring, I think they were a little plugged because I got a little more get up and go now. Plus my horrible rattle during engine braking is gone. The car is running great, although I haven't had as much time to drive it this year. My $900 custom axles continue to be a pain in the arse. After finding another leaking C/V boot, I decided to take the inner joint apart and clean off all the grease to inspect it for myself. I found both inner C/V joints were excessively worn in the cups and races. 15,000 miles looked like 100,000 miles, I was pretty disappointed. They were noisy as hell again this year, and now I know why. I ended up sending the inner joints back to the Driveshaft Shop again (4th time) for warranty replacement. I got 2 new joints back but haven't had time to install them...which I need to do because the Tyler show is fast approaching.

Worn joints:



[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 07-18-2016).]

Sowardcustoms MSG #305, 07-21-2016 01:41 PM
      One of my favorite swap threads great job. Ive worked for chysler for years and have a few fieros might have to follow in your footsteps one day.

notwohorns (notwohorns@gmail.com) MSG #306, 07-22-2016 11:01 PM
      The sail panels look great (along with everything else). How did you attach them? What materials did you use?

[This message has been edited by notwohorns (edited 07-22-2016).]

seajai MSG #307, 07-23-2016 02:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by notwohorns:

The sail panels look great (along with everything else). How did you attach them? What materials did you use?



I used 2 door panel fasteners on the leading edge and some butyl tape in a couple spots along the top and bottom towards the back.

To do this I drilled 2 holes in the strip of fiberglass on the rear clip that is covered by the large flat area of the sail panel. I then took some modeling clay and put it over the holes, lined up the panel, and pushed it into the clay. The clay blobs stuck to the panel and gave me the exact location of the holes. I made a couple of fiberglass squares, drilled and installed the door panel fastners into the squares, and glassed them to the back side of the sail panel. This worked better than the double stick tape because the perimeter of the fiberglass panels had a curved lip and reqired a large buildup of tape. And it also allows for easier panel removal.



notwohorns (notwohorns@gmail.com) MSG #308, 07-25-2016 09:18 PM
      Thanks. That's a creative way of installing those. You do a lot of creative thinking on you whole build. I've been watching this and I'm very inspired.

Lunatic (shaynes@rogers.com) MSG #309, 06-08-2017 06:18 AM
      Lots of great ideas and information in this thread. I'm sure it's a blast to drive.

On another note, can you share the part number, or application, of the hose as seen below please? I too have to run a crossover as you did. However, my local Napa store didn't have a very large selection to choose from.

Thanks for your time.



seajai MSG #310, 06-09-2017 08:14 AM
      PM sent.

I can't find my hose tags I had saved so I don't know what that one was from. I got all my hoses from Oriellies, maybe try them.

Sorry.


FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #311, 07-01-2017 08:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:






From this photograph, the surface finish on the races in these outer CV cup is far from what i would consider ideal for a bearing surface. It also appears to lack any surface hardening to prevent exactly what happened to them.

I haven't been too pleased with my experiences with The Driveshaft Shop. I have however been very pleased with working with Mark Williams Enterprises, and Rockford CV.


seajai MSG #312, 07-04-2017 12:05 AM
      The joints they use are made by Interparts, I'm thinking they're pretty low quality. The Drive shaft shop has always been good with customer service and warranty repairs but I'm tired of the problems. Last summer they replaced both the inner joints due to the wear in the pics. The new joints were quiet for less than 500 miles before the noise started again. I was going to send them back over the winter but never got around to it so I decided to run them for the summer and deal with it this fall. The joints are noisy all the time now and I suspect look about the same as before. I may have them switch to a stock Porsche or Audi inner joint and make a flange for the transmission output shafts to bolt the joints to. I guess we'll see what happens. They owe me something, this whole process has been a real PITA!

seajai MSG #313, 07-10-2019 02:49 AM
      Well it's been a little over 2 years without any sort of update so I should probably do that. The swap is still running strong, the only trouble I had recently was a loose cable at the starter causing a no crank issue. This spring, after a couple years of living with the dark green color, I decided that I had had my fill of plasti-dip and it was time for a change.



I contacted a friend of mine who owns a vinyl wrap business and worked out a deal to get my car wrapped. So the adventure of removing all traces of green plasti-dip began. I ended up removing all but the fastback clip and the roof panel to get rid of the dip overspray. There are more nooks and crannies on a Fiero for the dip to hide than I could count. There was also some body and paint problems to address before the wrap could go on.



After The wrap was done and the car reassembled I decided I wanted get rid of the fiberglass pieces and to go back to regular quarter windows. After weighing my options, including a pair of NOS windows, I decided to get the new Fiero store premium quarter windows.



I did not use the supplied tape. I opted for 3M urethane foam acrylic adhesive tape and adhesion promoter.





I also wanted to go with a bronze colored wheel but they weren't in the budget so I opted to paint my existing wheels. I used Dupli-Color wheel paint and matte clear. This is great stuff, it laid down nice and flat and covered in just a few coats.



So after all that work, this is the new look.








mafv8 (mfullagar@twmi.rr.com) MSG #314, 07-10-2019 04:27 PM
      Love the new color, it really suites the car.



shemdogg MSG #315, 07-10-2019 10:42 PM
      Im diggin the color, whole car looks killer!

shem


Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #316, 07-11-2019 06:59 AM
      Very nice! The "new" look really makes the car look like a true "exotic"...nice work.


HAGO!


Vicophine (vicophine@gmail.com) MSG #317, 07-11-2019 08:16 AM
      I normally am not a fan of people modifying the body of Fiero's too much (Just purely personal taste), HOWEVER, yours is absolutely fantastic. Love the look so much! Great taste and beautiful work!

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #318, 07-14-2019 02:51 PM
      One thing I worry about is the water pump. The 3.5 chrysler water pump was designed for a short run of fluid. The run from the rear of the car to the radiator in the front can put a lot of extra pressure and heat on the impeller. You should not use a plastic impeller but a steel one if you can.