Build thread: '88 + 3800 = Fun in Spokane (Dial-up death warning)
Topic started by: aaronkoch, Date: 07-13-2009 03:46 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000133.html


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #1, 07-13-2009 03:46 PM
      Ok, so here is the beginning of a few months (hopefully less) of destroyed knuckles and dirty hands.

I found a rust free '88 coupe here in the Spokane area, '88 coupe with Iron Lung, and a slushbox on it. Came with AC, power windows, locks. No sunroof panel, so I'll swap the one off my parts car. I drove the car around for a few weeks and although it had NO real power to speak of, this is my first '88 so I am in awe of how nicely they ride. This, despite the fact that all the ball-joints are original, and the bushings look like they went up against Chuck Norris' blender.

Without further ado, let's get some pictures rolling!

Cleaning interior out, put on blocks for prep.





Tony Kania came over to help -- He disconnected the engine and transmission lines while I tore down the front suspension. Thanks Tony!




No real rust to speak of, surface stuff here or there, but the bolts all came out without incident except the front brake hose flare bolts. I'll have to cut and re-flare.







Some interior shots, notice how "clean" this car is.. I've never seen one before that didn't at least have rust on the hoor handle mounts.









So, I pre-loosened all the cradle bolts, and disconnected the parking brake cable (MAN, I love how they did it on the '88, under the front cradle crossmember!). Then, Joe (aka Fieroking) showed me his fool-proof method of rigging up to lift a fiero. It basically involves removing rear bumper cover, and bumper mount, and wrapping a strap around frame rails. Not only does this prevent the car from moving around a lot, but it doesn't roll on axis when lifted, and it leaves you enough room to slide dollies under the cradle.


Here's me, suggesting we hit it with a bigger stick. My oldest son Max was so stoked that he got to lift up a whole car. Greg's son Tyler was there helping and learning as he's now 16 and about to begin work on his fiero. That's Joe jockeying the dollies around until they were just right.






Once we got the car resting on the dollies, I got down there to finish removing the cradle bolts. This particular one caused me extreme grief because no matter how we jockeyed the car around, there was still a little weight on it, so I ended up just backing it ALL the way out with a wrench. By the end, I was laying on the ground and my arm was cramping something fierce. I'm an IT admin by trade, not used to all this REAL work...





While I was wedged under there, Joe decided to throw small things down at me and wiggle the duke to scare me. This was my first 2.5, and I thought it was rather ghetto that it only had 2 mounts + a dog bone to hold it up. It was SO sloppy in there..





One last check before lifting the car off, pulled the power, grounds, and the harness through.






Liftoff! Notice my apparent "I am Sparta!" nose covering. I'm pretty sure Greg did that on purpose to keep my camera from melting.





Oops, forgot a hose. Nobody pay attention to that one, it's not important.





Ok, all clear, time to push!! wiggled around to clear the brake line, and the legs of the crane:






Woohoo! All clear! I think I'm doubled over in pain here, but don't remember. By this time, I'd sniffed too much brake fluid, antifreeze, and spent the whole day in the super-hot sun. After this, we set some blocks under where the cradle mounts in the rear. (Don't stare at my ass, and remember kids, say no to crack)





Ugh, cleanup begins. No rust except the battery tray (still not much). At least I can get rid of all that disgusting fiberglass crapola.





Obligatory standing in the engine bay shot: Note, car owner is more than slightly unhinged by now. This, and there is a HUGE thunderstorm rolling in.. Time to put away tools, and cover stuff..




More later! Thank you so much to Joe (Fieroking), Tony Kania, Greg (lilrdfiero), Tyler, and my wife for allowing me another project (although I'm sure it was a brief moment of weakness, and I'll pay for it later).

And the sun set on the first day..

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-22-2009).]

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #2, 07-13-2009 03:58 PM
      It's looking good! I'm in the middle of mounting the 3800 w/getrag 5 spd to the cradle and am having some problems. Here's to a problem-free installation! *holds up beer*



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #3, 07-13-2009 04:22 PM
      Yeah, I ran into a snag too.. Anybody know the best way to put poly on the front upper a-arms on an '88? That pin won't come out with the sleeves still in there, and I need the sleeves for the poly..

I burned as much rubber out as I could, and I guess I'll just have to scrape it out with the pin in there.

What problem are you having with your swap?


JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #4, 07-13-2009 04:27 PM
      I have PR's 3800 engine mount and getting the cradle modified is being more of a pain than I expected. I can't seem to get the tranny mounts lined up and without those laying flat I can't properly mark a hole to drill for the engine mount. It's just a typical day in my life though, nothing goes to plan

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #5, 07-13-2009 04:33 PM
      Is there a chance you have his automatic mounts (if there's a difference)? I'm going to probably end up with an isuzu tranny, as I want the long freeway gear and will probably keep the motor NA.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #6, 07-13-2009 08:45 PM
      Bump for night crew: Anybody installed poly on the front uppers on an '88? anyway to get the pin out without removing the bushing sleeves? If not, I'll just get them powder coated together.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #7, 07-13-2009 09:29 PM
      Wow!!

Nice work Aaron and other INW Fiero guys!! You weren't kidding were you...you will have this bad boy ready for Richland. BTW, if you are interested in some really nice seats give me a call. They are the 2005 Cavalier ones I just pulled. Mint condition... They bolt right in! Super Huge Special One Time Discount to INW members trying to get cars ready for the 7th!! Even bigger discount to you Aaron!!!!!

Jeff

509-747-4826


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #8, 07-13-2009 09:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Wow!!

Nice work Aaron and other INW Fiero guys!! You weren't kidding were you...you will have this bad boy ready for Richland. BTW, if you are interested in some really nice seats give me a call. They are the 2005 Cavalier ones I just pulled. Mint condition... They bolt right in! Super Huge Special One Time Discount to INW members trying to get cars ready for the 7th!! Even bigger discount to you Aaron!!!!!

Jeff

509-747-4826



You da man! I'll call tomorrow!

Tomorrow is officially the day the "fun" starts, all my poly, springs, KYB's, SS brake lines, ball joints, tie rods, calipers and brakes show up. I also need to get the A-arms and rear arms ready to had off to Joe to get powder coated.. I don't think I will be quite ready for richland, but it'll be close.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-13-2009).]

helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #9, 07-14-2009 12:23 AM
      Nice work Aaron! Did I get you motivated a couple weeks ago?

Mine took 4 months to finish, if you can get yours done by Aug 7th I'll make you a special award for the fastest 3800 engine swap in the northwest!

Let me know if you run into any engine related questions, hopefully I can answer them for you...



Tony Kania MSG #10, 07-14-2009 12:46 AM
      Maybe you will be done in time for Fierofest. Wouldn't that be nice? I will tell you all that Aaron's 88 really does not have any rust. Definately makes dismanteling a lot easier.

No thanks needed there buddy. Just nice to meet your family. You are one lucky man. The kids love you. The wife loves you. And you get to pull off projects like this one. Guess that I have it good also.

How do you know when you shop at Harbor Freight too much? When your significant other recognizes where you bought your engine lift by the paint!

Call me when you need any more help. Also, let me know when you plan on getting Joe's engine. Me gots a pick-em-up truck.

Tony


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #11, 07-14-2009 12:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by helmet1978:

Nice work Aaron! Did I get you motivated a couple weeks ago?

Mine took 4 months to finish, if you can get yours done by Aug 7th I'll make you a special award for the fastest 3800 engine swap in the northwest!

Let me know if you run into any engine related questions, hopefully I can answer them for you...





Why yes, yes you did. I figure if you guys in Boise can do it.... :P

In all honesty though, I wouldn't have even tried this project without the resources available here on the Forum. Tonight will be a busy night, I'm going to finish gutting the rear links and front arms, and hand them off to Joe tomorrow hopefully, I hope his powder coat guy can do the spindles too..

Looks like I'll have to mount my bench vise on the bench. This swap would have been easier had my garage been cleaned out, but we just moved into the house not too long ago, and this place is a bit smaller than the last, so there's stuff still crammed in the garage. (like a parts car.. sigh)


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #12, 07-15-2009 10:56 AM
      Quick update:

My giant order from the fiero store showed up, containing lowering springs, ball joints, tie rods, poly all around, kyb's, strut plates, and stainless brake lines. They were kind enough to give me the PFF credit after the fact (I forgot about it when ordering).

Well, last night I tore into the cradle, removed the knuckles, lateral arms, and trailing arms, and burned the rubber out. I think that smell will haunt me for quite a while..

Also, since nobody has a trick for removing the giant mounting "pins" from the front uppers, I just removed all the rubber, and will send them off to be powder coated as-is. When I was removing the front ball-joints, I noticed that the uppers had never been changed, so I had to grind off the rivets. Also, the lowers weren't help in by the retaining clips (although they were tight in there..). Is that factory?

At 8:45PM, I broke my T-55 driver, and had to resort to sears for a new one, too bad they only sell that size in a pack of 4 (big torx sizes) for $39.99. Holy crap, no wonder the store was empty.

So, THANKFULLY, all bolts played nice and came right off. With any luck, by tonight I will have the cradle free, and hand all the stuff off to joe for powdercoating.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #13, 07-15-2009 09:04 PM
      BTW... I have a free day this weekend... either Saturday or Sunday.... If you need a hand let me know... I follow directions well and clean up nice... LOL

Be glad to come over to help...and I can bring the seats!!

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #14, 07-16-2009 06:24 PM
      Just ordered rims & tires. Thanks to Rickady for confirming his fitment, I hope you don't mind my stealing your ideas..

Rims purchased:


Rears, 17x8 35mm offset

Fronts, 17x7 38mm offset

Tires:
Bridgestone Potenza RE760 sports


Fronts: 215/45
Rears: 245/40

Can't wait til they get here!


americasfuture2k MSG #15, 07-16-2009 06:36 PM
      i cant wait to see those on the fiero! i was looking at the black spoked ones

Tony Kania MSG #16, 07-16-2009 09:58 PM
     


Very nice my friend! Those will help set it off just right.


helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #17, 07-17-2009 01:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Just ordered rims & tires.

Tires:
Bridgestone Potenza RE760 sports

Fronts: 215/45
Rears: 245/40

Can't wait til they get here!


Sweet! You'll have to let me know how those tires are. I'm going to need new ones this winter and those are same size combo I'm running now.

Paul


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #18, 07-17-2009 11:01 AM
      Helmet,

I'm actually thinking about running my motor on rubber mounts: The factory trans mounts should work, I'm just not sure on the motor mounts. What did you use for mounts? I can't remember when I saw your car.. Did you get Purple Reign's mounts, or use rubber?

Joe was mentioning that I can use the dodge truck mounts for the engine mount.. I guess I'll have to get the motor here and just look at it..



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #19, 07-18-2009 12:29 AM
      Ok, so the local parts store is trying to kill me, softly. 2 weeks ago I ordered reman calipers all around, and rotors/pads. He looked them up in the computer and told me they had enough at the warehouse, and they'd be in in a week. I paid him a deposit, and called in a week. "Nope, still not here, I'll call and ask where they are..."

A week after that, "Nope, still not here, I'll call and ask where they are.."
Well, he called me today, and said that Wagner would only send the whole order to him, and they were waiting on the shipments to arrive from all over the country, and apparently I ordered the very last 2 rear '88 calipers in the country. *sigh* I try to do the nice thing and support a local business instead of a national chain and it makes me cry. I told him I would have to have them in hand by next Wed. or I wanted my deposit back. Then I went and tried to find some elsewhere, holy crapola, these are HARD to find! So.. I'm waiting ... waiting..

Meanwhile, I ordered my flywheel. Got the '97 camaro 3800 flywheel, and good lord is it heavy. Good thing I'm shaving 6 lbs off.. There are a few balancing drill marks in the front that will change a bit with the machining, just hoping the few grams won't matter too much. The bulk of the balancing weight is in the non-clutch-surface of the flywheel that won't be machined, so here's crossing my fingers.

For those of you who have done this before, with a NA motor, I shouldn't need to have it rebalanced, right? I figure the 3800 in the camaro is an NA motor like the 3800 series II I'm using..


RideZiLightning MSG #20, 07-18-2009 12:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Quick update:

My giant order from the fiero store showed up, containing lowering springs, ball joints, tie rods, poly all around, kyb's, strut plates, and stainless brake lines. They were kind enough to give me the PFF credit after the fact (I forgot about it when ordering).

Well, last night I tore into the cradle, removed the knuckles, lateral arms, and trailing arms, and burned the rubber out. I think that smell will haunt me for quite a while..

Also, since nobody has a trick for removing the giant mounting "pins" from the front uppers, I just removed all the rubber, and will send them off to be powder coated as-is. When I was removing the front ball-joints, I noticed that the uppers had never been changed, so I had to grind off the rivets. Also, the lowers weren't help in by the retaining clips (although they were tight in there..). Is that factory?

At 8:45PM, I broke my T-55 driver, and had to resort to sears for a new one, too bad they only sell that size in a pack of 4 (big torx sizes) for $39.99. Holy crap, no wonder the store was empty.

So, THANKFULLY, all bolts played nice and came right off. With any luck, by tonight I will have the cradle free, and hand all the stuff off to joe for powdercoating.


You coulda saved so much money on everything buying elsewhere and have gotten better tie rods and ball joints from Rodney plus more with the extra cash

The Fiero Store is a great resource and they are a good place, but not cheap for the stuff you bought


JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #21, 07-18-2009 01:32 AM
      aaron - I took my flexplate in with my flywheel to the local machine shop and they did end up modifying the flywheel by drilling out some material on the crank side of the flywheel.



helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #22, 07-18-2009 01:44 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Helmet,

I'm actually thinking about running my motor on rubber mounts: The factory trans mounts should work, I'm just not sure on the motor mounts. What did you use for mounts? I can't remember when I saw your car.. Did you get Purple Reign's mounts, or use rubber?

Joe was mentioning that I can use the dodge truck mounts for the engine mount.. I guess I'll have to get the motor here and just look at it..


I used Purple Reign's poly mounts all around for my swap. If you want to use the factory tranny mounts I think he'll sell you just the 3800 adaptor for the factory engine mount. I've never looked at an 88 cradle so I'm not sure if there are any differences in motor mounts there but he should be able to tell you.

Here's a shot of my engine mount on the cradle, maybe it will give you something to compare to:



Paul



RideZiLightning MSG #23, 07-18-2009 01:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Helmet,

I'm actually thinking about running my motor on rubber mounts: The factory trans mounts should work, I'm just not sure on the motor mounts. What did you use for mounts? I can't remember when I saw your car.. Did you get Purple Reign's mounts, or use rubber?

Joe was mentioning that I can use the dodge truck mounts for the engine mount.. I guess I'll have to get the motor here and just look at it..


You can use a stock 88 mount, or even an earlier rubber one and redrill the mount on the cradle(better option IMO since they are much cheaper and readily available)

Just make sure you get the right adapter for whatever mount you go with

I don't know how a single engine mount and dogbone works though, if that's what you're doing

I put an additional mount on the rear beam of the cradle and use a dogbone, all rubber


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #24, 07-18-2009 12:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RideZiLightning:


You coulda saved so much money on everything buying elsewhere and have gotten better tie rods and ball joints from Rodney plus more with the extra cash

The Fiero Store is a great resource and they are a good place, but not cheap for the stuff you bought


Actually, they were pretty cheap.. Figure in the "kit" discounts which bring prices in line with others, plus a 10% discount for the forum, and it worked out pretty darn well. Not only that but I've NEVER have a part problem from the fiero store. I wanted everything to show up quick, and in one box. There are things that I will definitely price around, like clutch, and brakes, because the fiero store's markup is really high on those (didn't used to be), but for the most part, I don't paying a little more for peace of mind.

That being said, I know that rodney has great parts, I ordered and received Stu's wipes which are AMAZING, and I'll always give first nod to forum vendors, but calling 20 places to make one order isn't my idea of fun. I spent maybe $30 more getting everything in one place = good in my book.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #25, 07-18-2009 03:42 PM
      Ok, I got motivated again this morning:

Pulled the motor off the cradle to prep cradle for 3800.








Notice how many people say you can do the TCC solenoid in the car? I think that must be a 84-87 thing, because the '88 duke is only on 2 mounts, on either side of the cradle. There is a large metal plate that covers the valve body on the transmission, and I don't think you'd want to unbolt that while in the car...






I was at Joe's last night, BS'ing about ways to mount the 3800 on the cradle, and I saw the 3800 mount sitting there: Say, that 3800 mount looks a LOT like the 88 mount.. There's no way it could fit, could it?




So, I unbolted the 3800 rubber from the 3800 mount and sat it on the duke's mount. No freaking way. I really hope this would work..



I didn't bolt it down, so it's not sitting level, but this means I might be able to just order new stock mounts, and be done with it. Even if I have to slot them somewhere, that still makes this a much easier swap than I originally thought. I know I'll have to rig up a dogbone if I use the rubber mounts, but that will make this a quiet, smooth machine.

More later, I have to scrape the goo off the cradle and get it to Joe's for powder coating along with the rest of the knuckles, control arms and rear links.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-18-2009).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #26, 07-19-2009 06:02 PM
      Today's update:

Tackled and removed all that nasty (oh my, that stuff is disgusting) fiberglass insulation from the engine compartment. Thankfully, there is almost no rust except the battery tray.

Firewall:




Battery tray area:



Back trunk wall:



Passenger side of trunk:



Driver's side trunk (ignore water, just got done rinsing leaves out from engine bay). Looks like PO used silicone to hold up carpeting:



Bottom of trunk, I thought this was rust at first, but it's actually some kind of sticky goo to protect that bottom piece:

That's all for now, more later.




aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #27, 07-19-2009 06:04 PM
      As a follow up, if you notice the floor of the trunk, it looks like the PO tried to jack the car up by the trunk floor. It was dimpled in about 5 inches.. I just hopped in the trunk and jumped on the high spots with my boot heel-- All better!

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #28, 07-20-2009 01:59 PM
      Well, Joe dropped off my suspension, knuckles, cradle, and engine mount today for powder coating. There's a place near where he lives that does big jobs, and they throw our stuff in when it's convenient for cheap..

So, by the end of the week, my stuff will be gunmetal gray with silver flecks. (color they happened to be doing, which is FINE BY ME at the price.. )

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-20-2009).]

Dan_Seattle (dan_michelle@verizon.net) MSG #29, 07-20-2009 02:37 PM
      88's are very cool. My first 88' was purchased for recently $400 with a bad engine and I'm glad I got it. I did the caddy v8 conversion on a 5spd. Great combo with the 88' suspension for a daily driver. Keep the progress coming, car looks really clean. I've always been partial to the clean look of the 87-88' nothies. They look lean and clean.

[This message has been edited by Dan_Seattle (edited 07-20-2009).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #30, 07-20-2009 02:42 PM
      Yeah, I'm just sad it won't be done to drive down to NW fiero fest this year.. Oh well, that'll give me a whole year to make it competitive with you Seattle-guys' cars.

I'll still be there this year, just driving a taurus. I think that could get me killed.. hehe.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #31, 07-21-2009 05:01 PM
      Wife called, said that the man in brown just dropped off 4 huge things.. WHEELS/TIRES!!!

Crap, 3 more hours of work.. Also, my suspension is at powder coating, so I can't even mount them for a while. I can however, stare at them for long periods of time, and make my family hear about them repeatedly. I'll post pics when I get home (which seems like a LONG time from now.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #32, 07-21-2009 08:23 PM
      The. Wheels. Are. AWESOME!!!

Rolled into place for pic:



8" rear wheel, the tires match the rim width PERFECTLY. A+ for tire rack's tech with the sizing..



7" front, also a perfect match.



All in all, I can't wait to get these bolted on after paint, with the lowering springs.


Tony Kania MSG #33, 07-21-2009 10:46 PM
      Right back at ya! Show off. Actually, those look just awesome. Like candy. Quite the nudge to keep you going.

Edit:
If you get bored, throw a bit of wax on all of the surfaces. It will help to keep the outside, and inside clean.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-21-2009).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #34, 07-21-2009 10:48 PM
      Nice Aaron!!! Very nice!! They look great!!

LilRdFiero (lilrdfiero@comcast.net) MSG #35, 07-22-2009 02:07 PM
      Those just don't look right! Think ya better drop them off at my house!



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #36, 07-23-2009 08:32 PM
      Well, managed to sneak some time yesterday after it cooled down a bit (was hovering around 100 all day) and took off a few panels to prep for future paint, and replace the broken ones from the parts car.













aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #37, 07-24-2009 11:16 PM
      Today's Update:

Tore apart the struts to get the spring perches off, and opened the KYB GR-2's and Fiero Store 1" lowering springs.

All I can say is air tools are your friend when it comes to getting off strut nuts...

Upon re-assembly, those stupid concave washer plates on top were preventing me from getting my wrench on there well, so I used a grade 8 washer instead.. Anybody see a problem with doing it this way? I sure hope not, as it made it WAY easier to reassemble...

Original washer thingy vs. what I used:



Completed strut assemblies:



The great thing about lowering springs is that you don't need spring compressors to re-assemble. In fact, I'm wondering what the spring rate is of the fiero store lowering springs, as they were about 1.5" shorter than the originals, so there was a good 1/2" gap between the spring and strut plate before I tightened down the nut.

Tomorrow's an exciting day, my control arms, spindles, cradle, and engine mount are coming home from powder coating, and all of us Spokane fiero people are making a morning Pull & Save run.



Jefrysuko MSG #38, 07-25-2009 03:53 PM
      Any idea as to what vehicle that mount originally came from?


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #39, 07-25-2009 05:41 PM
      No, Joe found it at Pull & Save about a year ago.. Sorry.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #40, 07-25-2009 05:45 PM
      Ok, new and exciting! Pictures of powder coated goodness:











Cradle is coated too, but too hard to take pic of now, all I can say is WOW! Best $150 spent evah.

Up next, installing poly.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #41, 07-25-2009 05:53 PM
      Very Nice!!! those look most well done!!

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #42, 07-25-2009 07:20 PM
      Almost forgot.. first, a shot of the cradle leaning against the parts car:


Now for the REAL find of the day, a Getrag from a '89 Corsica. I walked right by it twice, because I didn't think corsica's ever came with a manual option, and Joe walked up to it and said, "What's wrong with this Getrag?"

*slaps forhead*


The next 3 hours were spent wrestling it out of the corsica.








Now, the cleaning and poly will follow.


Tony Kania MSG #43, 07-26-2009 12:47 PM
      Nice find on the transmission. I cannot believe that you already have your suspension back. The powdercoat looks incredible.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #44, 07-26-2009 01:13 PM
      Tony, you have to see these in person, and really need to consider doing the wheels in it. I can't believe how nice they turned out.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #45, 07-26-2009 10:08 PM
      Another day, another step done.

I figured out that my ball joint press works REALLY well to put in poly ($30 harbor freight special). I only used the wrench to really snug them in. 99% was just by hand.



I only needed the press for the big front A-arms, and the upshot of using it is those stupid end-caps actually fit without trimming. I KNOW there's no way these came close to fitting on the '86, and required trimming, but the fiero store lists the front poly kit the same part number for 84-88, so maybe these are made for the 88's and I shouldn't have bothered on the earlier car.




So, I finished up the fronts, and the rears were a piece of cake, and pretty soon, ALL DONE!


Here's a close-up shot of the front upper, I did this right, right? The center pins that came with the poly slipped right over the a-arm pin, and it looks right, just want to make sure before putting the washers and nuts back on.



That's all for now, if you noticed, in the complete shot, I tried to get my lower ball joints pressed in, but the powder coating made it a REALLY tight fit, so I'll have to run 'em down to the parts store for their hydraulic press.

More tomorrow...



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #46, 07-26-2009 10:11 PM
      Forgot to add, if you're going to do this some day, do yourself a big favor and make sure you grease the inner sleeve pin of the poly, to make sure the bolts won't rust to them. If they did, I don't think you'd ever get them off, those inner sleeves are hard core.

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #47, 07-27-2009 01:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Another day, another step done.

I figured out that my ball joint press works REALLY well to put in poly ($30 harbor freight special). I only used the wrench to really snug them in. 99% was just by hand.



I only needed the press for the big front A-arms, and the upshot of using it is those stupid end-caps actually fit without trimming. I KNOW there's no way these came close to fitting on the '86, and required trimming, but the fiero store lists the front poly kit the same part number for 84-88, so maybe these are made for the 88's and I shouldn't have bothered on the earlier car.




So, I finished up the fronts, and the rears were a piece of cake, and pretty soon, ALL DONE!


Here's a close-up shot of the front upper, I did this right, right? The center pins that came with the poly slipped right over the a-arm pin, and it looks right, just want to make sure before putting the washers and nuts back on.



That's all for now, if you noticed, in the complete shot, I tried to get my lower ball joints pressed in, but the powder coating made it a REALLY tight fit, so I'll have to run 'em down to the parts store for their hydraulic press.

More tomorrow...


That is the best looking 88 suspension I have seen. I wish my 88 looked that good. Now I want to go and do mine all over again to look like that. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great job, keep it up.

Rob


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #48, 07-27-2009 11:20 PM
      One of the most important parts of my build arrived in the mail today, I've been waiting on it for about 5 weeks.



[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-27-2009).]

86Red2M6 (lockeedge@gmail.com) MSG #49, 07-28-2009 02:50 AM
      Great pics... I installed a full poly kit on my IROC, and will probably do the same to the 86 2M6 my son and I acquired. You will love the difference in handling. Thanks for the lift pics, you've given me some creative ideas... I have to remove my engine trans cradle, and I have limited facilities. Your pictures have given me new ideas... Looks like you guys are having fun.

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #50, 07-28-2009 07:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jefrysuko:

Any idea as to what vehicle that mount originally came from?


Pontiac Transport with a 3800....I know, I bought one. -Jason



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #51, 07-28-2009 11:26 AM
      Sweet! I lucked into that one, huh?

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #52, 07-31-2009 10:19 AM
      I used that big U front mount bracket on my turbo car. It works well but the existing holes won't line up. Once you get the engine positioned, it will have to be redrilled.

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #53, 07-31-2009 10:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

I used that big U front mount bracket on my turbo car. It works well but the existing holes won't line up. Once you get the engine positioned, it will have to be redrilled.


It really won't work with 84-87 the mount on the cradle is in the wrong spot. I didn't want to cut the cradle and reposition the monut (powder coated cradle). So I ended up cutting the one ear off and making my own.. Worked pretty good. -Jason


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #54, 07-31-2009 01:48 PM
      I'm going to be going with Rodney's mounts after seeing the stock '88 mount prices, and I believe it will line up just purdy on the '88 cradle (bolt holes are already symmetrical). Even if I have to cut or redrill a bit, no biggy. I'm still waiting on fundage (88 brakes bankrupted me this paycheck.. ) so it'll probably be about a month until I get the engine & tranny mounted for fit.

Thanks for all the input guys, I love this forum!


Valkyrie (chris@crabb.ca) MSG #55, 07-31-2009 02:16 PM
      Money is nice.

*secretly jealous*


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #56, 07-31-2009 03:08 PM
      It's funny you say that, here's a quick story about being married:

So, I hardly ever carry cash, usually using my debit card for purchases, as that way they're budgeted and accounted for. About a month ago, I got a refund for a toy (bought wrong one for kid), and they elected to return cash to me instead of putting it back on the card, as the cashier was new or something. Next day, I pulled out some cash to buy girl scout cookies at work (Stupid addicting substances..) and realized that the $5 bill was red/colored. I was flabbergasted!
"Hey, when did they change the 5's?" I asked,

"Oh, about 2 years ago."

The ladies at the office all started laughing, realizing that I was completely whipped (even though I don't mind it..), and that I hadn't seen a bill that large in at least 2 years...

Oh well, c'est la vie, right? I guess it's obvious I'm married with children.


Valkyrie (chris@crabb.ca) MSG #57, 07-31-2009 03:16 PM
      Heheh. Oh, what's that I hear? *Whhhhhhhhhthttssshhhh*

P.S. Welcome to the world of Monopoly money. (Go Canada!)


30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #58, 07-31-2009 05:05 PM
     
 
quote
aaronkoch:Ok, new and exciting! Pictures of powder coated goodness:








Cradle is coated too, ...


Are you going to have the engine bay powder coated?



Tony Kania MSG #59, 07-31-2009 09:25 PM
      I am just glad that he won't be done in time for Fiero Fest! I may have a chance. He, he, he.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #60, 08-01-2009 12:14 AM
      Only spend about an hour on the car tonight, had to come back in to work for the night..

Locked down the front passenger side arms, new inner/outer tie rods, spindle, and bearing, only to realize that I'd pushed the sway bar up out of the way and it wouldn't pass the upper arm.

*UGH*

So, supported the lower arm with a jack, unbolted the top arm, swiveled it out of the way, lowered sway bar, rebolted. Tomorrow, I'll get the driver's side done...

Next up on the hit parade, update some pictures,
Finish pulling off all body panels
cut / reflare front brake lines (stupid things will NOT unscrew, backs were fine)
assemble drivers side front suspension


That'll keep me busy for a few days.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #61, 08-01-2009 12:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:


Are you going to have the engine bay powder coated?


You know, if I didn't want it done before the snow flies, I WOULD have stripped the whole chassis down and powdercoated it.


LilRdFiero (lilrdfiero@comcast.net) MSG #62, 08-11-2009 03:32 PM
      O.K. Let's get busy while the family is gone!!! Let us know when and what we can do to get this hunk of PLASTIC rollin"!



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #63, 08-11-2009 04:04 PM
      Heh, wife decided to stay home, but I still got the OK to work on it this week.

Tonight's lil Joe's BBQ, then it's wrenching time!


helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #64, 08-11-2009 04:30 PM
      Great job Aaron. I kind of missed the last 2 weeks of your updates getting ready for Fiero Fest Let me know if you have any questions when you start in on the wiring...the N/A and SC engines are very similar, plus I have electronic factory service manuals for 2000-2005 GM cars including wiring schematics.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #65, 08-13-2009 04:17 PM
      Ok, so I've discovered a big negative of having beautiful powder-coated suspension pieces.. Last night I was wrestling to put in the driver's side LCA with the new poly bushings, and of COURSE they're really tight, but I couldn't use my customary BFH approach.. I had to find a 2x4 to wedge in there and tap with a hammer until the pins were in the hole enough to pry flush with a screw driver..

After that HOUR, I got the driver's side inner and outer tie rods replaced.

That's ALL I got done on the drivers front before the heavens opened up from above, and I had to scurry and put tools away before they got rained on.

I'll get pics tonight if it's not raining.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #66, 08-14-2009 11:05 PM
      Ok, quicky update for tonight:

Finally finished up the front suspension. I though for sure I was going to get rained on, but only sprinkled.

passenger side:



Driver side:

Car in sorry current state:


I can't believe it, but I actually broke one of the upper ball joint bolts on the driver's side, and even more surprising, I had the exact replacement in my box of random junk.


Also, I noticed that the sway bar links are slightly longer (ones that came from fiero store). They seem to work ok, just strange. I wonder if it's so the poly won't be at as great of an angle as the rubber would be throughout the suspension travel.. Hmm. I'll find out if it hits or not when I get it on the road.


oilinthegas MSG #67, 09-15-2009 11:49 AM
      awesome post man ..car looks great

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #68, 09-15-2009 02:37 PM
      Thanks, got the engine in the garage finally, need to save money for a BUNCH of stuff from Rodney Dickman, getrag FWD kit, cables, getrag mount brackets, poly engine mounts, getrag slave, etc.

I'm gonna personally finance that guy's retirement here in the next couple of months.

Right now I'm rebuilding the engine compartment of a '96 jetta to sell for some project car cash... As soon as that's done I'll be workin again.

I really should take some motor pics..


GS Jon MSG #69, 09-15-2009 04:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:I really should take some motor pics..

Please do, you know I'm watching your build.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #70, 09-15-2009 10:21 PM
      Well, ok, but only because you asked nicely.












See the beautiful port matching job Joe's son did?


Not looking forward to this spaghetti mess..









aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #71, 10-21-2009 11:30 PM
      Just a bump to keep out of archives. I'm going to start the cradle work and engine mounting here in a couple of weeks.

josef644 (josef644@hotmail.com) MSG #72, 11-15-2009 11:04 AM
      aaron we need more pics and updates

LuckyStrike (mustangfivepointoh@myspace.com) MSG #73, 11-26-2009 04:56 PM
      can i ask what flywheel, clutch and starter are you using? -strike-

fierogt28 MSG #74, 11-26-2009 08:15 PM
      BTW, how did you break the ball joint?? Was this a fiero store ball joint??

Thanks,


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #75, 11-27-2009 01:53 PM
      I think I'm going to end up using the Fiero store HD clutch, as fieroking has used them with great success on his 4.9's and 3.4 DOHC. It feels very natural, and engages smoothly, while holding up to abuse for many years.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #76, 11-27-2009 01:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogt28:

BTW, how did you break the ball joint?? Was this a fiero store ball joint??

Thanks,


Didn't break the ball joint, broke one of the bolts that hold the top ball joint on (got a little zealous tightening things down).


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #77, 11-27-2009 01:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by LuckyStrike:

can i ask what flywheel, clutch and starter are you using? -strike-


Sorry, forgot the other 2 parts to that question: For the flywheel, I got a 96 camaro 3800 flywheel that will be machined down to .840" on the friction surface. Since I'm doing a NA build, the balance should remain the same, as the 96 camaro came with a 3800 NA motor too. As for the starter, I'm using whatever Joe happened to grab from the junkyard that came on the 3800.



GT86FASTBACK (dnd4spd82@verizon.net) MSG #78, 12-13-2009 02:45 PM
      Update???

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #79, 12-13-2009 09:12 PM
      Yes, there should be an update here.

With family in town for Christmas, Pre$ents to buy, etc, etc, it's slow going. I've got that 89 corsica Getrag and it's in nice shape, but I'm SO tempted to just go to the boneyard and grab a 4t65 and be done with it.. That would save at least $300... (Rodney getrag adapters, correct cables, and clutch).


I'll get it done by this spring tho for sure..


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #80, 03-04-2010 06:18 PM
      Bump to keep out of archives, and because I'm about to work on it again..


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #81, 03-04-2010 11:09 PM
      It's about time!!! We have had the mildest winter on record we should all be busy. I have my 4.9 apart for new clutch and muffler.

Get Busy

Joe Sokol



Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #82, 03-04-2010 11:10 PM
      Hey I own page 3

Joe Sokol



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #83, 03-25-2010 08:50 PM
      Finally moving again!

I tore down my Muncie from the parts car, and the only reason the shifter wasn't working was the bolt thru the shift pin had come loose. So, I lock-tite'd it and re-assembled the 4-spd with some permatex for sealant around the lip, and presto!

Shifts like a dream.. This will save me a ton of money on cables, mounting brackets, slave cylinder, and rodney's fwd getrag adapter kit. I'll probably hang on to my fwd getrag in case this 4-spd grenades, but it looked really clean inside, and there's no galling on the gears or bearings.

I ordered my fierostore HD clutch kit for the 4-spd, (Joe aka Fieroking has used them with great success behind his 4.9), had my f-body flywheel resurfaced to .840" from crank hub to friction surface, and ordered poly engine/tranny mounts from West Coast Fieros (they shipped today, Woohoo!).


I should have the motor/transmission on the cradle by Monday or Tuesday. Just have to get flywheel bolts.. The consensus is to use the ARP SBC cam bolts, and lock-tite them in at recommended torque for the bolts, but 20 ft/lbs makes me a bit nervous.. I might just get some 5/16-18 x 1" bolts in grade 8 and torque 'em down to 35 ft/lbs or so.. Anybody have feedback on these?


katatak MSG #84, 03-25-2010 09:27 PM
      Aaron, Glad to see you moving forward. Just thought I'd throw this at you:

From your very first post:

"Ok, so here is the beginning of a few months (hopefully less) of destroyed knuckles and dirty hands."

Quit goofing off and get er done!

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 03-25-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #85, 03-25-2010 11:30 PM
      Yeah, well, there're these weird things called "families" and "budgets", and both seem more important than the car..

Luckily, spring is here, and I'm feeling motivated, and the wife's taking the kids to CA for spring break, so I have some guilt-free car time coming up..




aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #86, 03-31-2010 08:32 PM
      West coast fiero poly mounts all showed up today (Thanks Chris!), and I went to NAPA and got some 5/16 18 x 1" grade 8 bolts to bolt the flywheel to the engine, so all my excuses for not working on the car are gone.. That, and the wife and kids are in CA for the rest of the week, so I'm off to do some damage. With any luck, I'll have the engine and tranny on the cradle by tonight!

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 03-31-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #87, 03-31-2010 11:23 PM
      Well, I didn't get the engine and tranny on the cradle tonight, but I did get the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate on, and got the tranny mounted to the engine.

I'm thinking I may have to do a true dual exhaust, as the 4 speed's tranny cables are going to be really really close to the exhaust crossover, if not touching, and that's not ok with me..


Instead of using the ARP bolts for the flywheel, I used 5/16" 18tpi 1" bolts and some grade 8 washers, and locktite. Without the washers, the bolts would bottom out about a fingernail's width away from the flywheel. No clearance issues between the bolts and the clutch plate, there looks to be a bit more than 1/8" inch of room or so b/t the bolt heads and the springs on the clutch plate. I'm using the fiero store's HD clutch kit, and the clutch is quite a bit bigger than the stock clutch..


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #88, 04-03-2010 02:43 PM
      Update:

Well, it looks like my fancy U mount won't work.. Sigh.. I guess I'll give Chris at WCF a call back and order his 3800 mount.









It does feel good to have it ALMOST on the cradle though.. Right now the mount bolts are just finger tight to check for fit. I'm hoping that once I get the correct mount for the engine and snug the bolts down, that the 4-speed will no longer rest on the auto trans mount on the drivers side of the cradle.
For any of you guys that have done this, how close is your trans to that mount?


exoticmotorsportscom MSG #89, 04-04-2010 01:49 AM
      Mine is really close. I actually made new mounts to insure that no rubbing or foul play will harm the set up. Too much work to have to gamble a mount. Getting it safe and sound the first time is the best way.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #90, 04-06-2010 07:46 PM
      Finally got WCF to answer their phone.. (ok, ok, so it's only been a day...) and ordered:




Hopefully it makes it by this weekend, I'd love to be able to get my motor bolted down.

Paul, if you're still reading this, I know you used a 4-speed, what did you do around the shift cables? it looks like it's going to be TOO close for comfort. I've actually thought about getting some f-body manifolds and running true duals, using stock cat location for one muffler, and stock muffler for the other..



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #91, 04-18-2010 03:17 PM
      My motor mount came in, and I finally got the engine and tranny bolted down tight.

Engine mount:



Back trans mount:



Front trans mount:

Forgot to post pics of the inside of the 4 speed, You can see the bolt that had fallen out, it goes through the select arms into the shift shaft..



Here's a shot showing the rather limited clearance between the 4 speed's case and the '88 cradle's auto trans mount. It's about 3/16", but with poly mounts, I'm not going to worry about it.



I silicone'd and attached that weird little coolant passthru cover on the LIM, not sure why they made it a separate piece, maybe something to do with casting it..

So, what mounts here? This is the LIM, on the pulley side of the engine. I'm referring to the open port on the bottom right of the LIM..


Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #92, 04-20-2010 12:35 PM
      I'm thinking that's a PCV passage.

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 04-20-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #93, 04-20-2010 04:01 PM
      I went and looked at the plastic intake, and sure enough, looks like a built in valve there.. Does that mean I don't need valve cover breathers since mine's NA?

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #94, 04-20-2010 04:52 PM
      I would not use breathers, there is no need with a fully functional PCV valve system.

Tony Kania MSG #95, 05-15-2010 09:31 PM
      Back from the dead
Second LP, here we go
Coming back, from the R-O-M-E-O!
Pistol packed, with the 4 or 5 slimmies
Hat turned back, and some airwalk jimmies!

(Just like your thread, I pulled this one from way back!)


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #96, 05-16-2010 10:25 AM
      Hey, not fair, I actually got quite a bit done yesterday, I'll edit this post to put up pics once I've had some coffee...

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #97, 05-16-2010 01:46 PM
      Ok, pics of latest progress:

Got the thermostat housing on, and the upper intake manifold.





Then, went and got a new water pump, love how the 3800's come with a metal impeller, and put the water pump on as well as the alternator bracket and weird little plastic coolant elbow (new as well).


Next up is the alternator, I've got the wrong one apparently, it looks nothing like the mounts say it should..


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #98, 05-30-2010 04:00 PM
      Update:

Well, I made it to the Pull & Save yesterday, and grabbed an alternator, $9, can't beat that. Also grabbed a digital cruise module off a '98 L36. Hope it's the right one..

I lubed up the harmonic balancer and seal, then slid it on, and bolted it down. My inspection plate is still off, so I wedged a screwdriver between the teeth of the flywheel, so I could really snug 'er down, but I will fire up the air compressor after my 2 year old wakes up from his much needed nap and I'll really get 'er tight with an impact gun..

Also picked up the F-body exhaust manifolds from a junkyard, and thanks to Joe (Fieroking)'s kindness (he let me sandblast them at his place last week), I got them all pretty and scale free and mounted them up. These are going to work perfectly. One thing for those of you who want to try this: I'm mounting the manifolds on the opposite side of the engine from how they originally came, so the front bank dumps out right where the air compressor would have gone should I have wanted to keep it. Just something to know.. The front bank will feed right down where the original exhause came under the cradle and oil pan, and meetup with the rear bank, then come up into a muffler, and out to the tips like stock.

Finally, got the correct alternator mounted up, and put on the throttle body and throttle cable bracket. For those of you wondering what my obsession is with the F-body manifolds, check out where the 4-speed cables are going to sneak through, and where the 3800's original crossover would go, and you'll immediately know why I'm doing it this way..















All for now, more to come soon, as soon as I get the fuel rail and injectors on.


Tstang429 (tstang429@gmail.com) MSG #99, 05-30-2010 05:39 PM
      nice you found a set of 2000+ manifolds. Im working on mine as well. good luck with the swap its looking nice

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #100, 05-30-2010 10:46 PM
      Ok, so I had a second wind, and a sudden burst of motivation. Doesn't happen often, so I took advantage of it..

I pulled the o-rings off the injectors, and replaced them with new ones, and slapped the fuel rail on. Man these are easy compared to the devil-inspired 2.8 rails..


Then, I pulled the slave from the white '85 parts car out of the box, cleaned it up, and disassembled to check for wear. Looked beautiful, so I cleaned it all out, and pre-lubed it with a bit of brake fluid, then greased the pit with a bit of lithium grease, and the release armpit with some lithium grease, and installed.



Following that, I dug the starter out of the parts box, found the bolts for it, and cleaned it up. Looks like the donor car leaked a bit.. It was caked in 1/4" of oily goo, but came out nice & clean (still ugly, but it's hidden...). Then, bolted it up. Man, these things are retarded heavy..



So, that concludes todays sporadic burst of activity, I also dug the wiring harness out and cried a little. I know most of it's going away, but still, it's a bit daunting.
I'll start liberating one piece at a time soon..



Lastly, I pulled the PCM out and brushed off the cobwebs. Been a while since this has seen service.. I think it's out of a '97, can't remember, but I've got it written down somewhere. Fieroking has access to GMtuners here in town, so once the car is all wired up and I can start it for 2 seconds, I'll get the laptop and pull out VATS, tranny codes, evap, egr, post cat O2 sensor, and see if there's some way to incorporate the dual bank O2 sensors with this computer.



Tstang429 (tstang429@gmail.com) MSG #101, 06-06-2010 08:40 PM
      why are you gonna run dual banks? I am going to just block off the 02 bung and run a ypipe. are you still going for true duals?

vballman (genlee01@yahoo.com) MSG #102, 06-06-2010 09:18 PM
      Great build! Hoping to do this to my 86SE as well.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #103, 06-06-2010 10:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tstang429:

why are you gonna run dual banks? I am going to just block off the 02 bung and run a ypipe. are you still going for true duals?


I think I am going to end up with a Y right before the exhaust passes under the rear of the cradle, then up to the stock fiero location through a big 'ole flowmaster that Fieroking gave me because he hates the sound.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #104, 06-16-2010 09:28 PM
      Ok, more progress:

After about 3 ideas that DIDN'T work, and 3 belts that were too short, I think I've finally got it!

First up, the AC Bypass pulley from NAPA, $36. This was too easy vs. trying to make one.



It literally just bolts to the AC bracket, and lined up perfectly, first try.


Next, front view. Notice, at least 180 degrees of wrap on all major pulleys, and it uses the factory tensioner.





Then, finally, the belt's part number, for those of you trying the same idea:




I did have to cut a bit of the crank pully plastic shroud off with some wire cutters, right where it mounts on the post stud, but it's still snug on there. I'm a little concerned about what happens as it stretches, as in will the 2 parts of the belt rub when the tensioner is at full pull, but I think it's ok. It will be VERY easy to change the belt in the car, so worst case scenario, I replace the belt every year. It's pretty snug on there, but not as tight as factory, but I think that since I don't need to run the AC compressor or PS pump, it's more than fine. Also, for those of you doing this too, The tensioner is at the "end" of it's factory marked range, but there's still another 1" of pull or so left in the spring. I'll update when I have it running to confirm that it will be ok, but I think I'm fine..

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-17-2010).]

Tstang429 (tstang429@gmail.com) MSG #105, 06-17-2010 08:49 AM
      Aaron I am planning on running a similar belt setup. Jncomutt did something similar on his sisters car. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/102326.html I found a pulley you may be interested in. On the tensioner I replaced the pulley with a ribbed one. the part number is 49106 made by Goodyear. Pulley was a whopping 15 bucks. Just remember the bolt on the pulley is left hand threads. I ran a ribbed to keep things from slipping side to side. Nice to see someone thinks like I do.

[This message has been edited by Tstang429 (edited 06-17-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #106, 06-17-2010 12:34 PM
      I did end up replacing the pulley with a brand new one, since it's so easy to do when the motor's out. I need the smooth one, however, as the way I've run it the backside of the belt is on the tensioner pulley, just like stock. Also, I like how John did his belt routing, but this way gets like 3 times the wrap on the crank pulley, and I'm pretty sure since the alternator, crank pulley, and fake ac pulley are all ribbed it will stay put ok.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #107, 06-19-2010 12:14 AM
      Ok, finally started the wiring. What tremendous fun THAT is..

Got all of that nasty tape, loom, and junk off the harness, then slid the pins out of the connector:



Then, started the de-tangle process:



Once they were all seperated, I went around and found where they all plugged in. This was much easier than I anticipated.







Tomorrow's task: Run to pull & save, as it seems I don't have an air temp sensor.. That's ok, because I'm going to look for another O2 sensor as well. There are a lot of L36's in the junkyard at the moment with those Cash for Clunker stickers on them, and that just chaps my ass.. some of these are like '02 buicks loaded with leather, and they look brand new. Ugh, it makes me ill that somebody would intentionally granade a motor like that..

Then, I'll run the wires where I like them, and begin the re-loom. I still need to get the VSS plug off the '85 harness too, and run that in with the rest of them. There were a LOT of left-over wires, I know some of them will go to the cabin, but most were for the EGR, EVAP, AC, and all the fluid level sensors. I'd guess more than half of the original harness won't be used.




Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #108, 06-20-2010 01:45 PM
      Wow Aaron...you have made a lot of progress! Good seeing you yesterday!

Jeff


Tony Kania MSG #109, 06-20-2010 09:28 PM
      Very nice way to lay out the wires! That thing is going to scream. With all of the great swaps going around the neighborhood, maybe my 3.1 needs to throw a rod or something.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #110, 06-23-2010 02:32 AM
      Couple of updates:

So after laying the wires on the engine how I wanted them, I zip-tied them temporarily in place, then grabbed the whole mess and spread it out on the kitchen table. The wife and kids are in CA for the week, or else I'd get beaten to death for this mess.. I also grabbed the original harness, and hacked off the c500 and c203 connectors.




Next, I soldered up the grounds, the injector +12v feeds, and walked each sensor to the appropriate spot on the PCM connectors. I must have spent about 10 hours doing this, I know there are people WAY faster than I am at it, but hey, it's my first time, and I didn't want to have to tear into it again later to fix stuff. I did run into a slight snag, all of the instructions talk about using c203's J and/or K pins for the injector feed, but that isn't possible in an '88 duke, as those pins aren't there. I used c500 E3, which is also used to power the ICM, and is IGN fed.

After getting the whole mess pinned, I had a few extras. The green wire (of the black, tan, and green) off the coolant temp sensor didn't have a spot, so I fed it to c500 C2, which according to the charts is the temp gauge feed. I hope that's right.. Also, the oil pressure sensor apparently never talks to the PCM, so I ran the tan lead to C203 pin E, and hope it's the same values as the fiero one (mine is the 3800 oil press. sender) and the black to ground. We'll see soon enough.

Other oddities: Since my car was an auto, and will now be a stick, I ran the yellow wire coming from C500 A4 to the start solenoid, and will have to wire in the safety at the pedal assembly side (or not, can be usefull for moving the car when it won't run). Also, I noticed that the original fiero v6 intake air temp sensor had the same plug as the 3800, so I used the original fiero v6 one as it sits in that can so well. We'll find out if the ohm range is the same when I get power to the PCM..

Not sure if this is how it's supposed to be, but I ran the PCM's fuel pump feed to the fiero FP relay pin A. This will mean that I no longer have the oil-pressure backup driver for the FP, so I guess I'd better keep a spare relay in the car..

After all that, I taped it up. I will get some new high-temp loom for it tomorrow, just can't bring myself to put the old stuff on it.


Of course, my dog Bailey was constantly there begging, er, I mean "helping". Since I was sitting at the table, she thought that meant I must be eating..


Forgot to post this earlier: I went to hang out with Jeff, Joe (FieroKing) and dratts on Saturday, and Joe whipped me up some block-offs for the EGR passages. I noticed that on the original EGR tubes, the hold-downs were nice and thick, and I cut the egr tube, slid off the hold-downs, and ran over to Joe's, where he put a scrap bolt thru the hole, welded them in, and cut the bolt about 1/4" long to keep the block-off's centered. He then grinded down the tops smooth, and I hit 'em with some high temp paint. I used some copper high-temp exhaust gasket maker on the one on the exhaust manifold, and some Right-Stuff for the one on the intake manifold.






I've gotta do the fuel pump, filter, and a little plumbing, and i'm almost ready to mount up the suspension and get the motor in the car. It's getting exciting now...


Ok, bedtime. I was actually sick today, and ended up just staring off into space for a lot of the day.. I checked the pins end to end with a meter just to make sure I didn't space out too badly..

Wish me luck, I'm getting there..

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-23-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #111, 06-23-2010 02:50 AM
      Oh yeah, and by the way, to those of you who ENJOY wiring like this (yeah, I'm talkin' to you Joey), you are SICK, SICK, TWISTED people. This was by far the most obnoxious job of the swap to date, and that includes wrestling with the rear cradle bolts. I see now why people are happy to plunk down $500+ for a completed harness.. That is some TEDIOUS work..

Tony Kania MSG #112, 06-23-2010 07:33 PM
      Great job on the harness! It really does look great. I have done so much wiring on robots, cars, and homes, that I do not shed a tear for you. It is a pain, but just look at what you get out of it. The engine is looking good too.

FieroFiend MSG #113, 06-24-2010 08:42 PM
      Tedious work indeed but deffinently not worth plunking down serious loot for, if you get ahold of new PCM pins its even easier and comes out about as clean as it gets.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #114, 07-09-2010 10:48 PM
      Update? How's it going Aaron?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #115, 07-10-2010 12:01 AM
      Going well, Stacey and the boys are headed out for the weekend in the morning, and I'm going to drop the tank to change the fuel pump, do a little cleanup in the bay, and hopefully get the engine in this weekend.. I'm straight running out of time for the fierofest, and right now it's looking like 50% chance of making it.. IF, and it's a big if, everything works as it should, I should be ready to rock. Any major setback (and there almost always are with swaps) and I'll be down there for moral support..

You guys gonna fire up the beast this weekend?


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #116, 07-10-2010 01:06 AM
      God willing!! i know we are close!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #117, 07-10-2010 01:18 AM
      Also,,, remember i can come help any night after 5.... Call me bro!

747-4826

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 07-10-2010).]

katatak MSG #118, 07-10-2010 01:21 AM
      Hey Aaron,

Great minds think alike. I'm doing a 3800SC and did exaclty the same thing to block off the EGR ports. I used a Carriage bolt - cut the head off and welded it in the hole. Then I trimmed the EGR tube ends leaving about 1/8" of the tube on either side of the "seal" ring and bolted them back in place.

Motor is looking good - wish I had the stones to dive into the wiring harness - every time I look at it, my head starts hurting.

Pat


Tony Kania MSG #119, 07-11-2010 12:46 PM
      Nice to see you yesterday at Fieroking's. Even if you were driving a Ford. (Hey, I love my Ford.) Cool to see the Gulliford boys too. There are so many Fiero projects going on in the Inland Northwest right now.

Just chiming in to see how much you have accomplished on your beast? I know, only so many hours in the day. Keep your head down, and your eyes up. That 88 will be smokin' when you are done.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #120, 07-15-2010 08:57 PM
      Well? Engine in? Inquiring minds want to know....

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #121, 07-15-2010 10:03 PM
      Engine goes in tomorrow, had to get seals for where the axles go through the knuckles. Luckily, Joe had a couple of extras on his shelf (what DOESN'T he have on his shelves?).

Apparently I need to go get a '97 computer too, as the 96's can't be programmed by HP Tuners..


Oh yeah, I OWN MY OWN PAGE. I rule.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-15-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #122, 07-15-2010 10:52 PM
      You are the page ownage maestro!!! You plan this don't you!!!

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #123, 07-18-2010 12:00 AM
      Ok, so a lot of progress today:

Started by ripping out the auto trans cooler lines, and trying to fit the clutch line from the '85. This was not easy, as the 85's routing is very different from the 88's at the front.




Then, I pulled out the 4 cylinder radiator, and cleaned and installed the 6 cyl radiator from my parts mule. Seeing them side by side, you really notice how much beefier the 6 cylinder radiator is. The fins on the 4-cyl were closer together, but they collect more crap like that anyway..





I cut a firewall blanket out of Joe's patented shiny stuff, cut the battery tray out, and dropped the tank to swap in the 6 cylinder pump. I also ran the FI hose out that little hole in the middle, and it will come up to the drivers' side of the middle to the fuel rail. My exhaust on the front runs down and to the passenger side, so there's nothing that will heat up the lines there.



It hit about 93 here today, and I had to take frequent breaks to hose off my head in cool water. So, I went in the garage and put the rear suspension on, mounted the new axle seals, and put the axles through the spindles. After that, I bolted on the struts with those cool little cam bolts to make the alignment guy's life MUCH easier.
It's all ready to throw in, and I have Jeff coming over tomorrow to call 911 if I drop the car on my head..






More tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-19-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #124, 07-19-2010 12:38 PM
      THE ENGINE IS IN!

Finally, right?

HUGE thank you owed to Jeff (Porvette) Greg, and Tyler, who all spent the day throwing stuff at me while I was under the car..

I still can't believe how MUCH ROOM there is around the 3800 in the engine bay.. I can fit my arm around any part of the engine with ease. I did have to cut the bottom of the right hinge to clear the ICM/Coil pack, which happen to *ahem* crisp up my freshly cut firewall insulation, but I I'll cut out a new one and apply it again. The 4-speed lines run neatly over the the thermostat housing, and barely have to bend at all to go into the car, it's a beautiful thing. I also set a spare decklid on there to keep the cats out, and I will have to trim the right rib to clear the alternator, but not much. Also, notice that the stock 4-cylinder coolant hose perfectly mounts to the thermostat housing.














Next on the docket:
Route Fuel lines, add inline filter, and attach quick disconnects for rail.
Get '97 PCM and mount
Get battery and ground cables and mount
Add grounds for a few loose wires on harness
Add inline 10 amp fuse for PCM battery power wire
Mount harness wiring on firewall, attach ODB2 diag port inside car.
Swap pedal assemblies for manual assembly. BTW, is there a trick to removing them? It seems like the assembly is stuck binding on a wire harness under the dash, I can't seem to get it far back enough to clear the studs at the firewall.. Oh well, I'll play with it some more.
Fix front brake lines, and mount front calipers
Install SS brake lines and bleed.

I think that will keep me busy for a few days..

Wish me luck, FieroFest is approaching in about 3 weeks, nothing like down to the wire I guess...

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-19-2010).]

longgonefiero (nicholas.hull@spangdahlem.af.mil) MSG #125, 07-19-2010 03:34 PM
      This is by far one of the better build threads my hats off to you and keep up the good work.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #126, 07-19-2010 04:27 PM
      Thanks, and THANK YOU for serving our country. If it weren't for you and our other brave men and women in the armed forces, I'd be standing in line to order my Trabant.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #127, 07-19-2010 08:59 PM
      Dude...Looking good... you are on the downhill now.... You will get her in shape for the FEST in am sure... Call me if you need help after work anynight, anytime....

Jeff


bowrapennocks MSG #128, 07-19-2010 09:05 PM
      Looking good. Hope to see it at Fierofest.
Jim


Tony Kania MSG #129, 07-19-2010 11:30 PM
     
Damn! Looking saweet. I have a busy month, but could also throw some wrenches at your crib for a couple of hours Jr.


Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #130, 07-20-2010 01:23 AM
      Swap is looking great!

As far as the pedal box, you can reuse the auto pedal box. You will only need the clutch add-on bracket and the two bolts, the longer pivot bolt, and the smaller brake pedal. Remove the thru-bolt from your current setup, pull the brake pedal out, bolt on the cluth pedal attachment, insert the longer bolt, slip it thru the new brake pedals, and voila!


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #131, 07-21-2010 12:40 AM
      Today's update:

I've been Mr. Mom these last few days as my wife prepares her grandparents' 60th anniversary party, but I did manage to make a little progress tonight..

I hooked up the shifter cables and adjusted them, and hooked up the throttle cable. Interestingly, the stock '88 duke cable works perfectly with the 3800 throttle body with a few minor modifications.. Clip the cable after the first stopper thingy (metal crimped on the cable), and cut the automatic TV part off, and it slips right in like it was meant that way from the factory. It's dark out now, but I'll get some pictures tomorrow. I may use a zip tie to keep the cable from lifting out of the housing, but that's pretty minor sauce..

BTW John, thanks for the tip. That will save me at least an hour of wrangling...

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-21-2010).]

helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #132, 07-24-2010 11:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Wish me luck, FieroFest is approaching in about 3 weeks, nothing like down to the wire I guess...



Isn't it amazing how fast August arrives! I was in the same boat when we painted my car in 2002, we were painting August 4th and in Richland August 10th

Keep up the great work, I know how much dedication it takes to pull off a swap like this in your garage...been there done that! Looking forward to seeing your new power in person in a few weeks.



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #133, 07-25-2010 02:34 PM
      Have you looked at the possibility of a significant hood notch with that Alt on there? After all powdercoat are you going to go back and clean the motor/trans?

Great looking swap, I love the pics of your harness work. I hated that part of my swap.

Rob

.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #134, 07-26-2010 12:58 PM
      Ok, it was 96+ degrees out this weekend, so I didn't get enough done, but I wanted to post pictures so you could see my progress.

Close up shot showing '88 duke throttle cable in 3800 TB. I cut the cable after the first "stopper", not sure what the official name is for that piece of metal pinched on the wire is. I also cut off the auto trans kickdown cable that's molded to the throttle cable on the duke. Then, I just ran a ziptie to keep it from lifting out of the slot.



Next, I planned out the fuel line layout to prevent heat issues, and make sure nothing would rub. I also re-used the plastic quick-connects that came on the engine to make for easy disconnect later if needed. Please, make sure you always use fuel injection rated hose.. Kinda sucks at $5 a foot, but has many safety features.



Since my front exhaust manifold dumps down to the passenger side of the car, I ran the fuel lines to the drivers side, then up. I used a FRAM GF15 filter, which has flared ends on it and is an all-metal filter, wrapped it in loom, then snugged it in the factory clamp, which was moved over to an open heat shield mount. Note, in the next picture, I still need to put some protection around the hoses where they enter the fuel tank area. They look tight, but aren't touching the rounded-over pass through at all, I'm just adding protection to prevent wear. Another note: I'm fond of zip ties, but when using them, there are a few rules. run 1 zip tie around item you want secured, but leave a bit loose. Then run the second zip tie thru the first one, and attach to mounting point. Thirdly, run a third zip tie around the junction of the first 2 zip ties (but not around either the item or the mount) and pull tight to make sure item being secured never touches the mount. Then snug up the first 2 zip ties (not too tight, just enough to prevent movement).



Lastly, I got the PCU sitting in its eventual home, and the harness sitting in place. I also attached the C500, and the chassis harness. I still need to coax the harnesses into a manageable configuration, but that will be much easier when the PCU is actually MOUNTED, instead of just sitting there. On another note, I had to go to the junkyard and find a 1997 PCU, as apparently the '96's aren't able to be programmed by HPTuners. I could have used a '98 - '02, but that would have meant re-pinning the connectors. There are SOME differences b/t the '96 and '97's, but not for my purposes, as I'm using a manual trans, and no AC. The one I found was from a 1997 Buick Park Ave non-supercharged.


I can't get over how "at home" this engine seems in the fiero bay... Must be "meant to be."


Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #135, 07-26-2010 04:07 PM
      Looking good, almost there!

roninfiero (roninwort@aol.com) MSG #136, 07-27-2010 08:42 PM
      Your swap is looking great! Also wanted to say that your thread is very helpful.
Ronin


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #137, 07-29-2010 09:53 PM
      Enjoyed last night... that is the smoothest clutch pedal ever!!! What is next? Let's get it started!!!! vroom vroom!

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #138, 08-21-2010 11:59 PM
      Ok, productive day, but by the time I had a chance to take pictures, it was dark..

I finished the wiring, hooked up the alternator and starter to the junction under the c500, made an engine ground, and screwed down the PCM connectors and c500.

Next, I filled the transmission (normal oil until I know it's a good trans, then synchromesh), adjusted the shifter cables, and lubed up the cables with some wd40.

Spencer came over (shill on the forum), and helped me fill the cooling system. When I first started filling, I saw water pouring out of the block above and to the right of the crank pulley, and freaked out. Apparently, there is something bolted there normally, and I found a small bolt and gooped it with right stuff, and screwed it in. Fill attempt number 2, and same thing, only a little higher up. Ugh, another bolt, gooped up, and in, and third try's a charm!

Now that there's oil, transmission fluid, and coolant, I decided to try to start her for the first time tonight. I grabbed the steering column, plugged in the dash, and got the jumper cables hooked to the battery. Turn the key, here the FP relay click, and crank, but no start. I saw an ajar light, but no CEL, and gave up for the night. I know the PCM is getting power, because it's the only thing powering the fuel pump, and I think I can here the FP running, but it was dark by then, and hard to troubleshoot.

ALMOST THERE!! Just wanna here the stupid car run..

So, after I got inside, I remembered that I'd forgotten to put a bigger fuse in for the ICM...

I'll check that tomorrow, and try again.

Wish me luck!


JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #139, 08-22-2010 11:28 AM
      Good luck hope it starts today

Tony Kania MSG #140, 08-22-2010 01:08 PM
      If there is anything that I can help out with today, please give me a call. You know the #.

josef644 (josef644@hotmail.com) MSG #141, 08-22-2010 02:57 PM
      Aaron we are waiting for news

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #142, 08-22-2010 03:59 PM
      ROFL. Just got out of church, as soon as I put the 3 year old down for a nap I'll go play a bit.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #143, 08-22-2010 08:29 PM
      Well, fuel pump works, I have fuel at the schraeder valve, ICM works because the tach flutters on crank, coils test good. PCM works, or at least primes the pump and turns on the CEL.

It turns out that my fuel injectors don't have 12v for some reason. This is troubling, as they're powered off the same feed as the IGN PCM feed..

I guess I have to pull my pretty harness back out and find out what the heck happened.. Grr...



Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #144, 08-22-2010 11:29 PM
      Sometimes people will use J or K at the C203 and only have one injector fuse at the fuse box. If you're using the C500 to power the injectors as well, I guess this isn't the case, but may want to double check before tearing into the harness.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #145, 08-23-2010 11:59 AM
      When I had the harness inside working on it, there were no pins J & K, as my car was an '88 duke, so I figured they weren't in the car harness either. I was mistaken however, as both J & K of c203 are there and powered in the car's side of the c203. At the time I ran the feed for the PCM IGN and the injector +12 off the other IGN feed in the c203. Now that I know that J & K are indeed there, I'll need to go through the harness again and make it right.

Sometimes it's not fun being an amateur.. But, on the flip side, when you build your car from scratch, it helps a LOT in knowing where to start troubleshooting.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #146, 09-04-2010 11:08 AM
      Alrighty, update from yesterday:

Well, I pulled the harness off the engine, and began tearing the 3 rolls of electrical tape and looming off the harness. After completely undressing the harness, my mistake was obvious. I had faithfully joined all the injectors' +12v leads together, and then completely forgotten to run a power wire to them at all. I guess that would completely explain why they weren't firing..

Let this be a lesson kids, never wire a harness when extremely tired, you WILL forget something.

So, I ran a wire to pin J of the C203, and re-taped / loomed the harness. Today, I'll re-mount the harness and attempt to start.

The great thing about building your own harness and doing your own swap is knowing exactly how to troubleshoot.. Once I started tracing the wires back it only took me about 3 minutes to see my error. In a way, I'm glad, as I took the opportunity to shorten some wires and reorganize the layout a little bit so it lays in my engine bay better.

Stay tuned for possible engine noises today..


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #147, 09-04-2010 11:02 PM
      WOOHOO!!! IT RUNS!

Took a while for the fuel to prime, but it fired up, and ran for it's 2 seconds.. Now I need to save up for an exhaust, and program the PCM..

Major milestone, man it was good to hear it run.. sure is loud without an exhaust.




Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #148, 09-05-2010 12:32 AM
      Congrats on getting it running.

Joe



JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #149, 09-08-2010 12:23 PM
      Nice job

Tony Kania MSG #150, 09-10-2010 12:56 AM
      She really doesn't need much to be road worthy. That has to feel good!

Jimmy_the_Saint (dangerousmouse@coolgoose.com) MSG #151, 09-13-2010 11:27 AM
      Looks great man! I was wondering, what kind of brakes are you using? Those look like 4 piston calipers, bit they don't look like the Wilwood kit HT sells or the Brembo kit from WCF

[This message has been edited by Jimmy_the_Saint (edited 09-13-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #152, 09-13-2010 06:08 PM
      Believe it or not, those are the stock '88 brakes. I'm currently in an airplane somewhere near Chicago on decent, or I'd comment more, but they're about to announce that I need to stow my toys..

I had the 12" wilwoods on my previous car, and they stopped great, but were a PITA... not hub centric, rattled, expensive. Man, they did haul the car down in a hurry though.



Shill MSG #153, 09-13-2010 10:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:
I'm currently in an airplane somewhere near Chicago on decent, or I'd comment more, but they're about to announce that I need to stow my toys..


Ah, and when I called you this morning, I thought you said, "I've got to go, I'm bored." Now I realize it was "I've got to go, I'm boarding"



Jimmy_the_Saint (dangerousmouse@coolgoose.com) MSG #154, 09-13-2010 11:21 PM
      Did the 88 brakes use a multi-piston fixed caliper design? That's kinda how they look to me from the pic, but I'd never seen a pic of the 88 calipers before.

[This message has been edited by Jimmy_the_Saint (edited 09-13-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #155, 09-14-2010 09:15 AM
      They're single piston floating calipers. Getting hard to find, too, 88 fiero was the only application.

Jimmy_the_Saint (dangerousmouse@coolgoose.com) MSG #156, 09-15-2010 05:49 PM
      Gotcha thanks for the clarification man.

LuckyStrike (mustangfivepointoh@myspace.com) MSG #157, 09-25-2010 03:58 PM
      just curious what pcm you are using? I had an 00 or 01 that would start the car like in your video, I (thru some research here on the forum) sourced a 98 grand prix pcm that let the car run, so you can test things and source the vaccum leaks that are always there! good luck, looks great, Just got my n/a running etc a couple weeks ago too, awsome! waiting on my dog bone mount from wcf! -strike

Tstang429 (tstang429@gmail.com) MSG #158, 10-10-2010 08:25 PM
      bump

BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #159, 10-31-2010 02:24 AM
      A "Hows its coming along" Bump

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #160, 11-20-2010 02:10 PM
      Got the car on it's own wheels for the first time in 18 months. Getting it rolled into the garage before the first BIG snow.. I'll post more details later.

2Fast2Fiero (distinctmale06@aol.com) MSG #161, 12-15-2010 06:23 AM
      very informative thread. what year fuel pump did you use amd from what car?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #162, 02-23-2011 05:42 PM
      Bump for freshness, and to mention that I'm about to start working again.

List of things still needing done:

Run wire for second O2 sensor (running a camaro computer and camaro manifolds, dual O2's)
Have exhaust fabbed
re-assemble interior
program ECM
Assemble front brakes and bleed.
Alignment
Drive!!


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #163, 02-23-2011 05:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2Fast2Fiero:

very informative thread. what year fuel pump did you use amd from what car?


Sorry, missed this:

I used a fresh v6 fiero pump. My engine's an NA, so it should be fine.


thedrue MSG #164, 02-23-2011 06:40 PM
      so I started reading you list of things still to do and misinterpreted it as stuff that was done. I got really excited and a little mad I had not seen the pics... Then I discovered you still had to do that stuff!

Come on Aaron, get that thing finished!

It does look good BTW


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #165, 02-23-2011 07:10 PM
      Our high temp for tomorrow is supposed to be single-digits..

Besides, I'm sick right now. And lazy. And poor. Did I mention lazy?



Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #166, 02-24-2011 12:47 AM
      Arron
Get of your lazy butt and get it done.

Oh by the way I now haw my own HP Tuners.

See you soon

Joe



hypo327 (mickey_327@verizon.net) MSG #167, 02-24-2011 02:56 AM
      So far so good Aaron. I'd sure like to see it when it's done!! Are you going to have it at the N.W. Fiero Fest this year?

When you get it on the road, I hope those red poly bushings on those beautiful A-arms aren't to noisy. I changed mine out to the black ones with graphite (when I installed new slotted ball joints), to eliminate the sqeaking and squawking every time I went over a bump or dip. The fronts were the worse, cause they move more. In dry climates, like Arizona, there's probably no problem, but every time it rained, it would wash-out all the silicone lube and start squawking again, and it was so embarrassing. It's quiet now, and doesn't compete with my stereo any more either!...lol.

If I could figure out how to reduce my pictures to 307,200 bytes and 1024 width, I'd use PFF's PIP to post a picture. I don't know why they didn't make it work with a standard camera size..? I'll have to get my computer geek over here to show me how. I've got all the programs down-loaded, just can't figure out how to make all these different things work.

Looking forward to you continuing this thread! You're doing a good job!

[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 02-24-2011).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #168, 03-17-2011 02:11 PM
      Yeah, goal is to have it at NW fiero fest. Poly's ok, and my previous car had squeaks, but I'm pretty sure that having the arms all powder-coated along with the LIBERAL helping of goop I shmeared on there it'll be ok for a year or two.

Just last weekend, I got the fiberglass battery tray mounted up, and beginning this afternoon / and into this weekend it's plumbing time: Time to get the brakes all mounted up and bled.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 03-17-2011).]

my86fiero (gtfiero86@live.com) MSG #169, 03-17-2011 05:10 PM
      hey aaronkoch
how hard was your harness to do?
i was looking through here and i like the way you layed it all out
any pointers that might help?
thanks,
jason


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #170, 03-17-2011 10:06 PM
      Harness wasn't difficult with Ryan's diagrams, but it was tedious. I printed the pinouts from www.gmtuners.com, then checked each one off after verifying with a meter. It took me an honest 6 hours of work. Granted, I've never done one before, but I can tell you I still think it would take at least 3-4 if I made another one.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 03-17-2011).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #171, 03-17-2011 10:10 PM
      So, after programming my PCM, I hooked it all up tonight excited to see if it would run without cutting out anymore (VATS). I hooked up the battery, turned the key, cranked, and except for a sputter, nothing. I don't have the interior in yet, and noticed that when the fuel pump ran, it sounded like the pulsator replacement hose had given away, and the pump was just spraying the inside of the fuel tank.. Ugh.

I re-used the one that was in there, and it turns out that was a bad idea. Apparently, the ones that came in the 4-cylinders aren't capable of handling the high pressure. We'll chalk this up to a lesson learned.. I have a PM into the guy in the Mall selling sections of the in-tank rated tube, and if I don't hear back from him, I'll go get some from Napa.

1 step forward, 2 back.




Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #172, 03-17-2011 11:13 PM
      Aaron tried to call you Damn phone battery is dead. I have the fuel line you need.

Joe



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #173, 03-20-2011 04:42 PM
      Ok, got the in-tank tube replaced (oh, how I HATE dropping the tank), and we're back in business.

Also, setting the VATS to PWM and disabling the P-codes for VATS seems to have solved the VATS issue.




Had a squal go through, and had to pull back into the garage, but next up is finishing the brakes, and attaching body panels.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 03-20-2011).]

thedrue MSG #174, 03-31-2011 03:31 PM
      damn man looks awesome and sounds real mean. Get her finished up! I am hoping to get back up there sometime in the next couple months. I had a great time hanging out and hope to make it happen one more time before I graduate. Keep up the good work.

Damian


helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #175, 03-31-2011 03:56 PM
      Nice work Aaron!

You should drive it around the neighborhood with no exhaust like I did.....at 11:00 at night You make a lot of friends that way!

4 1/2 months til Fiero Fest....hope you can get her done by then!

Paul



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #176, 03-31-2011 11:17 PM
      I would have, except the brakes aren't hooked up yet, the interior's not in it, and the instrument cluster is balanced on the steering column (which is also loose, to let me swap the clutch pedal assembly in). That would have been Mr. Toad's wild ride for sure..

I'm hoping to get the exhaust and alignment done this weekend/upcoming week, throw the brakes on and bleed 'em, then go for a ride! It'll look like hell, but after 2 years I don't care. Just wanna drive it.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #177, 04-08-2011 10:19 PM
      Ugh, pulled the oil filter adapter today to make changing the oil pressure sender easier, and found out that it's bone dry.. Fantastic, the oil pump doesn't pump.

I'll have to track that down..

On the good-news front, with Tony's help, i got the brakes bled today. One step forwards, 2 back. I seriously thought about walking away from the project today, but can't being soooo close to done.

Some days, I really do feel like just parting it out...


Tony Kania MSG #178, 04-08-2011 11:11 PM
      Aaron, sorry man. But honestly, you are sooooo close. I am really impressed with your progress, quality of the parts, and how solid the car is. You are not far off, and I am sure that the crew will help get her going. (BBQ @ your house. )

Tony


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #179, 05-04-2011 10:44 AM
      Just to post an update:

Well, good news! I'd simply forgotten to put in the oil pressure relief valve and spring, and without it in the housing, there's no way for the oil pump to suck oil out of the pan. I ran to pull & save, grabbed a plunger and spring, cleaned them up and re-installed the oil filter housing (after pre-squirting the oil-pump full of straight 30w oil), pulled the plugs out, shot some oil in the cylinders with a syringe, pulled the PCU plugs, and spun the motor with the starter.

It only took about 3 seconds for oil pressure to register on the gauge, phew! Even with just the starter, it hopped up to about 60 PSI (still assembly lube in there).

I spun for a while longer to make sure everything was good and lubed, then put the plugs back in and fired her up.

Now, on to the next problem:

Engine runs, but really crappily. I have a scanner, and the sensors are reading correctly. Fuel pressure is good, measured with a gauge, and I can keep the engine running. At idle, fuel PSI is ~50, and it goes up to about 55 when the throttle is blipped.

I have 2 seperate coil-pack / ICU combos, and swapping them makes no difference. Resistance across ALL my coil packs (across spark plug terminals) is ~12.5 ohms on all of them.

My question is this: I removed that weird honeycomb air-straightener that sat in front of the MAF. Is it needed? If I put a clean rag across the opening of the intake tube, it runs better, and sometimes doesn't miss at all. Otherwise, it sounds like it's got just the gnarliest cam in the world in there...

I don't have an exhaust on there yet, just the manifolds, but I don't think that would cause my problems..

Any info you guys can spare would be appreciated. If I don't hear back, I'll go to pick & pull and get another honeycomb mesh thingy and try that. I tried to remove for cleaning before I had snap-ring pliers and damaged the last one..


JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #180, 05-08-2011 12:59 AM
      I have taken out the screen or honeycomb out of severall MAF you will be getting better air flow but it should not cause your problem but I would get your exhuast done then start looking at the tune. After market MAFs don't have a screen

[This message has been edited by JPH87 (edited 05-08-2011).]

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #181, 05-08-2011 10:19 AM
      I'm running mine without the screen with little to no problems. On your scanner, what is the LTFT and are there no codes?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #182, 05-08-2011 02:33 PM
      No coes stored, and no ltfts yet (still zero) as I haven't run it long enough to get it into closed loop yet.

I don't think its MAF related, as it runs theb same / worse without it plugged in.

Probably just crappy old injectors, they sat dry for 7 years before being reinstalled..

Ill grab a fresher set from pick & pull next chance I get.


mrbeef (jje46m3@yahoo.com) MSG #183, 05-29-2011 10:11 PM
      the honey comb needs to be in there its a weird 3800 thing


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #184, 06-22-2011 12:47 AM
      bump


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #185, 06-28-2011 01:02 PM
      I've been working on this slowly, trying to figure out the crappy running.. Here's what I've got now.

First, the injectors:
I had the wrong ones in it. Joe had mistakenly given me a set of 3.4DOHC ones. I went to pull & save, got a set from a wrecked '97 3800NA (same year as computer) and soaked them in a 50%/50% solution of gasoline and techron for 3 weeks. I then rinsed them with electronic parts cleaner spray and they look great.. spray holes look awesome and the screens were clear. I then went and bought new fuel-injector o-rings for all of them.

Old/wrong ones on left, "cleaned"/correct ones on right.









So, I was pretty stoked at this point, popped off the fuel rail, lubed the o-rings with a dab of motor oil, installed the new injectors, and reinstalled the rail.
Pressurized the rail, checked for leaks, and went to start.

Same thing. It is easier to start now, but still runs like crap. The one new thing: If I rev it, as it idles back down, it will sometimes burble on all 6 like it should.

So, the troubleshooter in me gets to work. I have tried the following:

Swapped entire ICM and coil packs - no change
New plug wires
New GM plugs
Measured fuel pressure - 51 at idle, and jumps to 55 when I goose the engine.
Swapped MAF - no change
disconnected MAF to start - runs worse
swapped injectors - little change for the better, but same overall crappiness

PCM reports no trouble codes, all sensors report right with my scanner. MAP, Temp, TPS, MAF.

So, I was pretty frustrated. Tony Kania stopped by last night, so since I had a helper handy, I had him spritz some starter spray in when I started it. VROOM.

Hmm.. ran clean on all 6 when the starter spray is used. This tells me it's DEFINITELY in the fuel system somewhere.

So, in my mind, it's one of the following possibilities:
1) Wiring to injectors is bad / faulty (either poor connections on my part, or swapped injector leads somehow)
2) I missed the correct pins on the PCM for the injectors (not likely, but worth a check)
3) PCM somehow unable to properly ground injectors (also really unlikely, I have really good grounds to the PCM in all the places it needs them)
4) Faulty PCM

Now, in my mind, #1 seems the most likely. I checked with a meter before taping up the harness, and don't think I mis-pinned the PCM plug. If there was a serious internal problem in the PCM, I believe the CEL would stay on or flash.

I don't think it can be the crank / cam sensor, as it does run great when I spray starting fluid in the intake.

Am I missing a possibility? I'll tear the harness off the motor YET AGAIN (ugh) and start checking. At this point, I'm tempted to start over with the harness, as much of a PITA that is, just to eliminate it as a possibility..




aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #186, 06-28-2011 01:05 PM
      Forgot to mention in the previous post that I checked the injectors with an ohm meter.. Can't remember what they were (at work now) but they were all the same. Think it was 12.6 ohm or something like that.

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #187, 06-28-2011 04:05 PM
      I'm lazy and didn't want to look through the whole thread - did you get a noid light to test the firing of the injectors? It's a simple little light that plugs into the injector connector that will light an led every time it's "fired". Other than that I would definitely trace the grounds back to the pcm connector and make sure the appropriate wire goes to the appropriate injector.

Edit: Also with the engine running as bad as you say it is you should be getting a random misfire code. If you aren't getting one that would make me wonder.

Edit #2: This is the image that rock auto shows applies to a 1997 grand prix gt 3.8l N/A engine. It looks a lot different than the new injectors you received and a lot more like the "wrong" injectors you removed. This injector is from AC Delco. Do the injectors have identifying numbers on them?

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 06-28-2011).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #188, 06-28-2011 04:12 PM
      Well, I was wondering about that too, but I've never let it run long enough to get to closed loop.. I'll try the noid light for sure, that's a great idea. Thanks.

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #189, 06-28-2011 04:15 PM
      My SES started blinking 30 seconds to a minute after the misfires occurred, I'm sure there's a minimum amount of misfires that need to occur in a certain amount of time to trip that but I don't know those exact figures. Can you just scan codes with your scanner and get general engine data (rpm, IAT, ECT, advance, etc.) or can you pull some of the enhanced pids such as individual cylinder misfire counts?

Edit: The noid light is really to show if the injector is getting fired at all (light won't light) or if for some reason it has shorted and is permanently lit. You can see random problems as well with the light blinking sometimes and not blinking others, it would probably help for you to jiggle the wire harness around with your hand to simulate going over rough terrain. A good signal will result in a steady pulsating light.

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 06-28-2011).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #190, 06-28-2011 05:25 PM
      I can pull any PIDs, but need to know the PID number.

As far as the injectors, the original ones were "denso" brand, and the new ones I don't remember seeing a brand name. I pulled the "new" ones off of a 97 olds. It's possible the ones I pulled were replacement ones. Either way though, switching all 6 injectors to have it behave the same way is odd..

I'll start by trying the noid light at the injector plug.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #191, 06-28-2011 05:29 PM
      These are off of an 1997 oldsmobile 88 (via rockauto), and the 1997 camaro 3.8 (PCM I'm using):





So it looks like ACDelco brand, as these are identical to the ones i have.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-28-2011).]

cam-a-lot MSG #192, 07-15-2011 08:43 AM
      Hello

My name is Mr. Mukwana. I am the Vice President ot the special Finance Division of the government of Nigeria in Lagos. I am contacting you to let you know that I need your help to relocate $55,000,000 in funds to the United States. Due to the political instability in Nigeria currently, we have no choice but to look into alternatives to hold currency reserves.

If you assist us by providing your banking information and PIN number, we will pay you a 5% commission on the amount transferred. This means that you will receive $2,750,000 for your assistance. In order to get started, please remove the powdercoated 88 Fiero suspension from your vehicle. Next, PM me for a shipping address. Though I am in Nigeria, the address I will give you is in Canada for security reasons. Please carefully package, pre pay, and ship the suspension and cradle. Once received, I will begin the process of the money transfer so that you can receive your $2,750,000 fee.

Thankin you very much

Mr. Mukwana
Vice President
Finance, Lagos


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #193, 07-15-2011 10:04 AM
      SWEET. Here comes my choptop. Rofl. Nigerian scam on pff. . What's the world coming to?

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #194, 07-15-2011 08:24 PM
      This has to be a joke. Where does that guy think he would get posting in a fiero forum? lol

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #195, 07-15-2011 08:28 PM
      Pretty sure its a weird joke. What would a Nigerian want with powder coated suspension pieces for a fiero?

Sourmug MSG #196, 07-15-2011 11:10 PM
      LOL, yes it's a joke. But you've gotta love powder coated suspension bits.

The car is looking great!

Nolan

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 07-15-2011).]

cam-a-lot MSG #197, 07-16-2011 10:03 AM
      Thanking you for your prompt reply.

Here is the proof of the payment I am holding for you as promised.



In addition to the powder coated suspension pieces, please also send a brand new Series III S/C crate motor with Purple Reign mounts, finished wiring harness and Spec 3 clutch for an 88 Fiero. Of course you need to pre-pay for shipping but you will become a millionaire within 48 hours after goods are received. I will wire you an additional $2,000,000 for beechwood Mr. Mike's leather seat covers.

I can assure you that this is 100% real and the pile of money is sitting in front of me waiting to be transferred to you. I will be waiting patiently for your shipment

Mr. Mukwana.... a.k.a. Scam-a-lot

[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 07-16-2011).]

FIEROPHREK MSG #198, 07-17-2011 05:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JamesCurtis:

I'm lazy and didn't want to look through the whole thread - did you get a noid light to test the firing of the injectors? It's a simple little light that plugs into the injector connector that will light an led every time it's "fired". Other than that I would definitely trace the grounds back to the pcm connector and make sure the appropriate wire goes to the appropriate injector.

Edit: Also with the engine running as bad as you say it is you should be getting a random misfire code. If you aren't getting one that would make me wonder.

Edit #2: This is the image that rock auto shows applies to a 1997 grand prix gt 3.8l N/A engine. It looks a lot different than the new injectors you received and a lot more like the "wrong" injectors you removed. This injector is from AC Delco. Do the injectors have identifying numbers on them?



Hey James i have a 98 grand prix with the 3800n/a motor. The injectors in your pic look identicle to mine. Also someone mentioned the honey comb screen before the MAF and it needing to be there,well it doesn't .I removed mine and the car runs normal. I think the screen is a was to prevent crap from hitting and damaging the maf sensor element. I thought the stock v6 (fiero) style fuel pumps had to be replaced with a differant type? Also i have read somewhere on here about "camaro idle" tuning. I'll see if i can find the thread that meantions that. Not sure how there is a differnace between idle speeds,unless there is another factor than speed that is adjusted.

Arron waas all you tuning done by you with HP tuners?

edit to add: found the thread were IAC tables are mentioned.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/114188.html

Darth's post on 02-08-2011 @12:37pm.


JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #199, 07-17-2011 07:44 PM
     
 
quote
I think the screen is a was to prevent crap from hitting and damaging the maf sensor element.


If something got into the air stream that was big enough to be blocked by the maf screen, I think you have other much more serious problems. The MAF screen is there to straighten the airflow before it hits the MAF to give more accurate readings. Removing it doesn't seem to make that big of a difference, and definitely wouldn't cause a car to misfire. If we could get some hard numbers out of the PCM such as LTFT and misfire counts on cylinders it would go a long way to telling us what is going on. Have you run a compression test on this engine?


FIEROPHREK MSG #200, 07-17-2011 08:09 PM
      I also have currently sold a 96 bonneville that had a 3800na it had a flashing check engine light. the current owners replaced the coil packs with new and fixed the missfire. i swapped coil packs from several "good" packs and still had the problem. Just a though try "new" coil packs.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #201, 08-20-2011 02:49 PM
      Ok, I've isolated the problem:

By checking injector feeds one by one, I've confirmed that all 6 injectors are receiving switched ign +12v, and are correctly connected to the pcm.

Here's the weird part, plugging in 1 injector at a time and cranking reveals that injectors 2, 4, 6 fire every time. 1, 3, and 5 maybe fire once, and then don't. If I plug in the '96 pcm from the lasabre, engine immediately fires up on all 6. I've verified that the '97 firebird pcm has the same grounds and injector pins.

So, at this point, the PCM is either bad, or my bank 1 o2 sensor absolutely NEEDS to be wired up fully before bank 1 injectors will fire.

Is there a good way to test that bank of injector drivers on the PCM? I really don't want to swap the PCM unless I have to, have already paid HPTuners for the license..

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 08-20-2011).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #202, 09-18-2011 06:03 PM
      Problem fixed! I bit the bullet and purchased a 98 grand prix pcm, repinned both pcm connectors, and fired her up. Imagine my relief when it ran perfectly.. So, now i need to purchase another license for hptuners to disable the emissions and tranny codes, & put the car back together. Wont be long till she's on the road...

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #203, 09-18-2011 09:55 PM
      Wooo Hoo!!! Music to your ears NO DOUBT!! Way to go ... Fiero Fest 2012 here you come!

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #204, 09-19-2011 12:01 PM
      Much as I hate to admit it I should have listened to Darkhorizon and gone with the 98-02 PCM from the start..

I guess the Grand Prix PCM doesn't have any active theft deterrent built into the PCM, it stays running just fine out of the box.

I still can't believe that '97 camaro PCM was bad, does that happen often? Oh well.. I'm only out the $100 for a new HPTuners license..

Anybody have a specific list of things needing changed for a L36 with a 4 speed muncie setup?

I already know about:
EGR P-code no report
EVAP P-code no report
Post-cat O2 P-code no report
Auto Trans errors no-report.

The camaro pcm was already from a stick, is there anything else I need to do to make sure the pcm doesn't go into limp-home mode or something?



JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #205, 09-19-2011 01:34 PM
      Yay yay ayayay yaya

KissMySSFiero (ssfiero@aol.com) MSG #206, 10-10-2011 06:01 AM
      I just read through this. Nice build. Any updates?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #207, 10-10-2011 12:27 PM
      Not too much.. Just fixed up a bit of PO wiring, and re-attached and secured the steering column (I really hate crawling in there upside down, especially since I'm 6'4".. ).

I've been busy saving and planning for my trip to GeForce LAN 6 with my oldest son this week. Now that the car is actually almost done tho, I'm getting excited again. It's hard to stay motivated for a multi-year project, but I'm trying very hard to make sure family comes first, before the car. If it takes a while, so be it.



JSzpotek (jszpotek@gmail.com) MSG #208, 02-13-2012 03:47 PM
      Any update?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #209, 03-05-2012 01:27 PM
      Small update: I got a set of new-looking grey seats on Saturday. In the next week or two, I'll actually try to get this pig on the road!


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #210, 04-03-2012 10:55 PM
      Hey Pal!! How is it going? Still have the Monsoon deck here for you... I have been so tied up with work I haven't talked to anybody save for Tony... Spring is coming... wait for it...wait for it.... yeah right! Spokane, the Siberia of North America...

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #211, 04-11-2012 01:05 PM
      Big day yesterday:

I drove the car under it's own power for the first time!

Not too exciting, as I just backed it out of the garage and up the car trailer, but it still felt good.

It's now at Joe's (FieroKing) getting an exhaust made for it..

After this, I need to get the interior put in, panels re-attached, a new battery and battery cabling installed, and it's off to get an alignment! Won't be long now..


30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #212, 04-11-2012 10:27 PM
      Who still has dial-up these days?

I would have swapped the alternator & ignition coils as seen here:



Don't have to be concerned with the ign contacting the firewall plus moves the weight of the alt closer to the middle of the car.

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 04-11-2012).]

thedrue MSG #213, 04-11-2012 11:18 PM
      Sounds good Aaron! I know Katey and I missed last year but we will be at Fiero fest this year and I expect to see you and your car there!

I don't know about Katey but I sure know I could use some more of those alcohol fueled words of wisdom!


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #214, 04-13-2012 02:13 PM
      As long as Jeff shows up with Gummy Bears.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #215, 04-17-2012 05:19 PM
      Exhaust is built!

Unfortunately, I tried making my own exhaust manifold gaskets with that copper stuff, and it leaks a bit, so I'll have to order some big-boy gaskets.
Car is home, and the re-assembly has started.






Tony Kania MSG #216, 04-17-2012 05:38 PM
      Bad assed! Call me if you are looking for any extra hands this weekend.

Tony


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #217, 04-23-2012 10:54 PM
      Ok, now I'm confused.. It turns out I didn't cheap out on the exhaust gaskets, so now I need to do some sleuthing to figure out where the leak is. Hmm. Seems like if it's not one thing, it's 5 others..



BigBenb84 (bigbenb84@aol.com) MSG #218, 05-06-2012 12:36 AM
      Got a pic of those front wheels mounted? I read on the front page your offsets and wanted to see what they looked like mounted. I'm looking at the same style for my '88.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #219, 05-29-2012 06:45 PM
      More good news:

I had a couple of hours Saturday to take a look at the exhaust leak. Turns out, Joe's slipping in his retirement years and just forgot to tighten the bolts to the front flange. ROFL. Just need to re-assemble now, and get it aligned. We have a bunch of family stuff happening this week, but maybe this weekend, I'll have the panels on and the interior back in.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #220, 06-08-2012 08:46 PM
      Aaron!! How the hell are you? We need to chat just to catch up. Also I need to bring you the Monsoon deck and Stacie's blanket... Which I actually have become attached too.. Miss talking to you.. I know you are close... closer...wait for it...wait for it... I am sick of waiting!!!! I want to see your car

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #221, 06-17-2012 09:42 PM
      Ok, finally got the battery mounted up front, and got the wiring run. Also, since I fixed the exhaust leak, and Spencer (Shill) came over, I did a quick sound grab video to show you guys why I went with the F-body manifolds. The car sounds a LOT like a stock V6, which in my mind is a great thing.. Especially since 3800's get a pretty bad rap for engine sound.





aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #222, 06-19-2012 03:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally PM'ed by FieroGT42:

That's awesome. It can't change the firing order without changing the crank but it changes the exhaust pulses?
Do you have any idea if this will work with a Series II or II supercharged?


To answer your question, yes.

Just to clarify, this IS a series II... Also, both the 60 degree v6 (2.8, 3.4, 3100, 3400, 3500, 3900) and the series II and III 3800's all fire a cylinder every 120 degrees of crank rotation. On the 60 degree engines, there is an additional 60 degree splay between cyl 1&2, 3&4, 5&6.



On the series II and III 3800's, they are 90 degree motors, with a 30 degree splay between pistons.


The difference is in the firing order. On a stock 60 deg motor (like the stock fiero), the firing order is 1 2 3 4 5 6. The exhaust goes from the passenger side to the drivers side, so the firing pulses are from the furthest away (to the y-pipe) to the closest. On a stock 3800 exhaust, the pipe is oriented the same way, but the firing order is 1 6 5 4 3 2. This means that the pulses go from shortest to longest. I don't know WHY that makes them sound like poop stock, but they do. The F-body manifolds usually face towards the transmission in an f-body, giving them the same short-to-long pulses. I flipped them, pointing them towards the front of the engine. This means the pulses are 120 degrees apart (just like the fiero's 2.8) and are ordered the same down the tube, so longest pulse, then middle, then shortest -- same as the 60 degree with a stock exhaust configuration is oriented.

You wouldn't believe how many people told me it wouldn't work.. But math usually does.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-19-2012).]

FieroGT42 (fierogt42@gmail.com) MSG #223, 06-21-2012 01:49 PM
      Thanks for the info and proving them wrong. That looks like an N/A engine. I'd love to do this with a SC2 or SC3, but will they fit without interference on the supercharged version?

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #224, 06-22-2012 08:01 PM
      Since you didn't call me back hoser.... How is it going? Call me... but don't call me "back hoser" OK? I see bees and I think of you.... twitch twitch

Jeff



iluvsd619 (luv6192000@yahoo.com) MSG #225, 06-24-2012 02:33 AM
      I like the idea of the fbody manifolds. What year car are they from? Also, how did you route the exhaust system?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #226, 06-27-2012 12:33 PM
      I'm pretty sure they're off of a 2002 L36 firebird. I just walked into a wrecker and told him I needed a set of manifolds from a 3800 based f-body. He handed me those for $30 or so and they fit.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #227, 06-27-2012 12:34 PM
      Sorry, about the routing, I'll have to get pics for you when I go back under. I'm planning on pulling off the exhaust to remove a rattling heat shield, so I'll take a pic of the whole exhaust off the car for you too.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #228, 07-06-2012 09:46 PM
      So.... Aaron.... you ever gonna call me back? LOL

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #229, 07-22-2012 01:56 AM
      VERY productive day today.
I replaced my temporary heater return plug with an actual plug that can tighten down, and ran the car for a while today. Even though it was pushing 90 here today, it ran nice and cool. After about 15 minutes of idling, it hit 195, and the fan came on as programmed. Then, it even shut off after dropping to 180.

So, since I have no more mechanical projects to dive into, I figured I'd get busy on the body. Spencer came over (Shill) and offered me moral support..

I got all the panels on, and fairly lined up. I need to make a run to get some plastic rivets tomorrow, so some of the trim isn't on yet, but it's close....

I really really want to drive to fiero fest on Aug. 10th. Tomorrow I'm tackling the interior.

Shot of driver's side right before I put the hood back on:




Shot from passenger side with my helper buddy:



Don't pick on me for my white panels, when I bought the car the two panels that I've replaced were cracked. I had the white ones off of a parts car, and the whole car will be painted white at a later date, so it worked out well. Looks goofy now, but I just want to drive it.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #230, 07-22-2012 01:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

So.... Aaron.... you ever gonna call me back? LOL


I've called a few times and gotten your VM..

I'll be wrenching tomorrow if you're bored..


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #231, 07-23-2012 12:06 AM
      More updates:

I built an intake out of 3" PVC, using about 12" of 3" PVC pipe, something called a no-hub adapter, and a Fram CA9345 filter.


The stock L36 intake rubber attachment takes a 3.5" pipe, and 3" ABS/PVC is 3.5"OD, so SCORE. I don't have any exhaust on that side of my motor, so I'm pretty sure it'll stay plenty cool over there for the plastic.

I ran PVC straight from the intake to the "No Hub adapter." The reason I chose this piece is that it slip fits over the 3" pipe, and then has a 3.5" section with a raised lip at the end to ensure that the filter can't work loose.




The filter is a Fram CA9345, and is sealed on one end and a 3.5" slip fit on the other. I had to lube the no-hub adapter with wd40 and stretch it on, and it ain't going anywhere.




Next, I went to work sealing the holes that some ninny cut in the firewall for speakers. I got a tube of seam sealer, cut some panels from galvanized sheet metal, and gooped / riveted the panels on. Done.






Then, I pulled the carpets out of the garage, and all the interior pieces that have been sitting in boxes for years, and cleaned them up. The stupid cats peed on the underlayment, so I had to make new ones from heavy closed cell foam. Then I put in the carpets, and almost died from heat exhaustion. I'm done for the weekend..




Finally, somebody PM'ed me about exhaust routing. I crawled under and took some pics.











All for now, more later.


iluvsd619 (luv6192000@yahoo.com) MSG #232, 07-23-2012 04:41 AM
      I pm'd you. Thanks for the pics. Looks and sounds great!

Reallybig MSG #233, 07-23-2012 04:49 AM
      Your exhaust system looks similar to what I came up with for my 4.9. Here's a pic to show what mine looks like out of the car.




I've enjoyed following your progress. Keep up the good work!

[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 07-23-2012).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #234, 08-06-2012 12:18 AM
      HUGE NEWS!

My car is done.

Well, it's not painted yet, but it's all back together, and it's getting aligned tomorrow. I took my wife up and down the street for the inaugural drive, and she feels really good.

I would be posting pictures, but it was too dark. It was really hard to be nice on the throttle, the L36 has a really nice torque curve. The motor isn't broken in though, and the alignment is WAAAY off, so I didn't want to tear things up too badly.

Looks like I might make it to NW Fiero Fest this year after all.

3 years, and 3 months, working only in spare time.





Tony Kania MSG #235, 08-06-2012 12:52 AM
      You just gave me goose bumps! Congrats!

I will be attending the caravan on Friday. Woo Haw!

Tony


fieroall MSG #236, 08-06-2012 10:36 AM
      Congrats! Post some picks up.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #237, 08-07-2012 12:03 AM
      I think I gave myself heat stroke yesterday, as I felt like the shaky dead today. But, after lots of water, some exciting moments in the bathroom, and some rest, I dragged myself over to Les Schwab to get the car aligned.

The guy that did the alignment was extremely good at his job, and had me back there a couple of times making sure he was setting it up like I wanted.

Here is the multi-colored (for now) plastic pig waiting to get her screws turned..





And sitting on the rack:




I'm happy to report that everything is awesome. Drives straight, no wiggles, shimmy, vibration, or anything else. I can't believe how smooth it rides, was expecting a bit more unnecessary roughness with poly bushings, lowering springs, and lower profile tires.
Oh, and another thing, I absolutely LOVE the 3800's amazing torque profile, and I only have the NA. Granted, Joe Jr. did a BUNCH of cleaning up on the heads, and the exhaust is pretty free flowing, but MAN it feels good.

It's all I can do to keep my foot out of it.

In case you guys run into this, I'll post my stupidity in the hopes it will save somebody else grief. When I first started driving it, I had a high idle. It would start and run fine, but the idle would hover around 1200-1400. I also had a CEL, so I whipped out my bluetooth OBDII adapter and phone, and the only code stored was a "Idle higher than expected." I checked the IAC, all the vacuum lines, and everything I could think of, and no help. I did a quick spray-over with starting fluid to help find the leak, but it never revved, so no leak. Hmmm...

I started searching for 3800 high idle on google, and low and behold, the set screw on the throttle body had been turned WAAAAYY in. I backed it out til it was no longer "helping" the throttle stay open, and the problem immediately disappeared. DOH.
At least it was an easy fix.

Also learned an interesting tidbit: The PCM will happily control the radiator fan via the relay and the car runs nice and cool (about 3/8 up the temp gauge, 192 indicated on scanner). I don't have AC in my car anymore, but if I run the engine fan via the AC button on the climate control, the PCM throws a P1656 code when it "sees" the floating relay voltage go to ground. The code reads something like "Fan relay driver voltage not as expected." Guess I'll have to just trust the PCM... It works quite happily on it's own.

I've got 40 miles on the clock today, and no other problems at all. Starts instantly (not even a half a crank), runs SMOOTHLY, pulls evenly, and has the most insanely awesome wail while accelerating with the combination of the free-flowing intake and my weirdo exhaust. I sounds a lot like a 370Z, but deeper. I'll try to figure out a way to get it on video.

Thanks to everybody here in Spokane / Cd'A who helped me so much over the 3+ years it took me to get to this point, Looks like I'll finally have a Fiero at NW Fiero Fest this year again.




thedrue MSG #238, 08-07-2012 03:14 AM
      Wooohoooo! Nice work! Katey and I are looking forward to seeing everyone and hanging out. Enjoy that car of yours you deserve it!

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #239, 08-07-2012 11:27 PM
      Some videos since I had some helpers..








aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #240, 08-08-2012 02:45 PM
      Spencer (shill) grabbed one more vid as we came back around..




aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #241, 08-09-2012 06:46 PM
      Just in case any of you are curious, I went and weighed the car.

for my '88 coupe, with stock body, AC compressor and condenser removed, and the 3800 NA and 4 speed Muncie, the weight was 2880 lbs with 5/8 tank of gas, me, and my work bag. If I figure that I have about 7 gallons in there, and I think gas is around 7 lbs per gallon, and the bag and I together weigh 220, that leaves me with a dry curb weight of 2610. Not too shabby, considering the big wide 17's.

I couldn't measure front vs rear, and I just used the scales at the local dump, but they're calibrated daily to a maximum of 20lbs error, and I weighed the same on both the "in" and "out" scales.

Interesting for anybody curious about the weights.. I'm pretty sure I dropped about 30 pounds from the duke / auto combo. Pretty cool considering I more than doubled the power.


Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #242, 08-14-2012 02:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

My car is done.

I took my wife up and down the street for the inaugural drive, and she feels really good.


And how was the car?

Nice to see a long project get finished. Good job!


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #243, 08-14-2012 12:34 PM
      Ran like a champ. I changed the break-in oil Thursday with about 250 miles on it, and nothing looked scary, so i topped off all the fluids, checked tire pressures, packed a WHOLE set of tools in the trunk and drove down Friday.

Even with the 4 speed and driving like a lunatic, i still averaged about 24-25 MPG. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order Rodney's Getrag shift cables so I can throw that 5 speed in it for highway cruising. 3200 RPM at 70 isn't fun for several hundred miles in a row...

It was a great shakedown run. I have a tiny coolant seep from somewhere on the waterpump housing edge, and the exhaust touches the cradle sometimes and rattles a bit, but those are pretty minor bugs on a project of this scope, especially considering I have no formal mechanic training of any kind. As soon as we get back below the upper 90's I'll drive it more, just too stinking hot to drive the fiero when my DD calls to me with it's sweet air conditioned interior..

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 08-14-2012).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #244, 09-13-2012 06:29 PM
      Some interesting updates:

The car now has 1000 miles on it, and I finally recently had a chance to go beat the snot out of it around a local lake. She handles Sooooo nicely, it makes me glad I spent all the time making sure the parts were all new.

I drove down for NW fiero fest, and while there on the weekend, noticed that the back end wanted to change direction when stomping on the gas, and would pull the other when letting off. I searched the forum and discovered that I hadn't snugged up the bolts enough on the back end. That, and apparently I'd forgotten to torque the rear wheel bearings once the car was on the ground.. Apparently, 50-60 ft. lbs isn't quite enough..

Also, I noticed that when I really wound the motor out and/or cornered hard, there was oil leaking from somewhere around the timing chain cover area. I was a bit bummed about having to pull the motor out again so soon, so I started looking for the leak to see if I could get at it. It turns out, there was a tapped unused hole in the block that had oil in the threads.. Hmm.. Could it be that this hole isn't a blind hole?



Turns out, it's not. It goes through to the lifter valley. Here's a random shot I found online of the back side of that same hole.


So, as I'd rev it up, the balancer would sling enough oil around that some would get out that little hole, making me scared for no reason.

I grabbed a short bolt from the bucket, cleaned it up, and put it in, and no leak since.

Learning by doing... *sigh*



Stainless1911 (hisprodigalsun@gmail.com) MSG #245, 11-09-2012 12:12 AM
      When is it going in for paint?

mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #246, 12-01-2012 03:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

That, and apparently I'd forgotten to torque the rear wheel bearings once the car was on the ground.. Apparently, 50-60 ft. lbs isn't quite enough..

Also, I noticed that when I really wound the motor out and/or cornered hard, there was oil leaking from somewhere around the timing chain cover area. I was a bit bummed about having to pull the motor out again so soon, so I started looking for the leak to see if I could get at it. It turns out, there was a tapped unused hole in the block that had oil in the threads.. Hmm.. Could it be that this hole isn't a blind hole?



I thought you'd learn from my mistake.... (gold fiero at NWFF). I think someone told me 200 ft. lbs is the spec And you were the one who let me borrow your 30mm deep well! Anyway, the car looks great and i'm glad you found out what that leak was. (I think i remember you saying something about it in richland at baskin robins). Hopefully you don't get one of your wheel bearings sheared in two! Hope everything is going well.

-Mitch


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #247, 12-01-2012 05:29 PM
      good thing you found the leak, great build and WOW thats light!

Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #248, 03-31-2013 09:08 PM
      Hows this build going? done yet? I'd sure like to see in person

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #249, 04-01-2013 01:23 AM
      As a matter of fact, I just ordered my plastidip kit on Saturday to spray the car. I tested it out on a couple of interior pieces as well and it looks awesome so I think I'm going to color change the interior to black too. We'll have to do some kind of Spokane area fiero BBQ soon to kick off the summer properly...

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 04-01-2013).]

Tony Kania MSG #250, 04-01-2013 09:34 AM
      I will offer up the venue for a BBQ! I miss my peeps.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #251, 04-01-2013 12:06 PM
      So, since I just ordered a sprayer and 3 gallons of PlastiDip, I figured I'd better practice a bit. So, I went to the local Walmart and picked up a couple of cans of the black to do the emblems on my 2012 Chevy Sonic DD. This stuff is really pretty awesome.. I also sprayed my spare dot-matrix gauge panel trim as a test of interior pieces..

I think an interior color change is coming too now..

Here's a shot of how the emblem came out:



It used to look like this (ugly on a white/black car):


For those of you who haven't heard of plastidip, check out DipYourCar.com

I'll be a guinnea pig for you all.. Funny though, it looks like quite a few fiero dudes are active on the forums there. Personally, I can't think of anything better for a plastic car, especially since it flexes, and if you don't like it, peel it right off.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 04-01-2013).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #252, 04-01-2013 12:10 PM
      Forgot to show you guys the color I'm going for:



And here's the link to that guy's thread: Nitro Sunset Blue


Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #253, 04-01-2013 03:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

As a matter of fact, I just ordered my plastidip kit on Saturday to spray the car. I tested it out on a couple of interior pieces as well and it looks awesome so I think I'm going to color change the interior to black too. We'll have to do some kind of Spokane area fiero BBQ soon to kick off the summer properly...



count me in!



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #254, 04-07-2013 01:43 PM
      Me too... Like the color Aaron.... I think it will look good...

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #255, 04-13-2013 02:23 PM
      Well, got my color mixed up! Looks awesome. It's almost the exact periwinkle blue I'm looking for. I might have to throw another purple pearl in, and maybe another can of white to lighten it up a shade, but it's really cool looking. Now I just have to finish up the body work, and pull panels to spray.





Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #256, 04-14-2013 08:25 PM
      Thats gonna look sweet!. Im strongly considering doing this to mt fiero. if i can ever get her running! lol

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #257, 04-18-2013 07:20 PM
      Color was a bit too dark, and not frou-frou enough, so I spiced it up with 2 more cans of white and 100 gm of violet interference pearl.
Perfect.



Joe was kind enough to lend me his paint tent, but the weather's starting to roll in, and I don't want to break it. Cross your fingers for nicer weather this weekend!

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 04-18-2013).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #258, 04-21-2013 11:39 PM
      Ok,

So, I put up the super-paint-tent that Joe lent me, and spent yesterday sanding and disassembling the bumpers, tail light, and sail panels.

Today, I cleaned and prepped, and was just about to start spraying when the hugest thunderstorm of the year started rolling through. I didn't want to risk the tent being perfectly waterproof, so I dragged the bumpers in to the garage and painted them. Turned out AWESOME!.

Can't wait to finish the rest of the car..















This Plasti-Dip stuff is really cool, and the gun they send with the kit work really nicely. Easy to adjust.

I'll do the rest of the car as soon as I get a break in the weather..




Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #259, 04-22-2013 12:22 PM
      Looks good. I can't wait to see it finished

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #260, 04-22-2013 01:15 PM
      I was gonna hit you up this weekend for help, but from your facebook posts, it looks like you were travelling anyway.

Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #261, 04-22-2013 02:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

I was gonna hit you up this weekend for help, but from your facebook posts, it looks like you were travelling anyway.


Yep. Took a 4 day weekend to Portland


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #262, 04-23-2013 11:48 AM
      Some more progress. Got about 4 coats on the car, so far so good. I need to go back over it one more time with a nice heavy coat to even out the satin sheen, and I should be done with the blue. Then, I'll wait for a day or two before taping to shoot the black for the kick plates and trim.















Started running out of light, so i had to clean up for the night.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #263, 04-26-2013 10:36 PM
      Looks great Aaron! Really dig the color... Well done! Firing both of ours up if the weather holds... Talk to you soon

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #264, 04-27-2013 09:21 AM
      Finishing up the car today, swing by and say hi. It's supposed to be warm and cloudy today. :-)

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #265, 04-27-2013 09:52 PM
      Just got the car put back together.. I'll take some better pics once I've cleaned it up. Really happy with it.


Tusch (john.partusch@gmail.com) MSG #266, 04-28-2013 09:20 AM
      I love the finish plasti-dip gives you but I admit I wasn't sure about the blue. looks really good man, nicely done

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #267, 04-28-2013 09:48 AM
      I wasn't sure either, but that's what's fun about the plastidip. If you don't like it, or you mess up, you peel it off and shoot another color.

As it is, I already had to redo the roof panel, the air hose popped off the earlex spray gun, and dribbled dip on the roof. I waited about 20 minutes, peeled it off, and shot another couple coats on.

It's pretty forgiving stuff. I've never really painted anything before, and with $200 of dip and pearl can get this kind of result, that's neat.

There are some small flaws which I'll touch up, and note to you all, If you plan on doing this LEAVE THE PANELS ON the car:
This stuff is not as durable as paint, and until you get a coat of spray wax on it is pretty susceptible to scuffing and scratching, so when you go to put the pieces back on the car, you are likely to scuff the pieces on install.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #268, 04-28-2013 01:46 PM
      Almost done, but close enough to post pics.

Still need to spray the kick plates, but the wind is insane lately, and I don't wanna mess up the rest by spraying them.













Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #269, 04-28-2013 02:16 PM
      Lookin good!

Tom Slick (tom.slick@northtexasfieroclub.org) MSG #270, 04-28-2013 04:23 PM
      very nice!!!

how smooth is the texture?
do you have a close up of it?

thanks...


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #271, 04-28-2013 04:54 PM
      The best description of the texture by feel is the rubbery back of those older motorola phones, or the silicone handle of a cooking utensil.

Here are a couple of close-ups:




Tom Slick (tom.slick@northtexasfieroclub.org) MSG #272, 04-28-2013 05:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

The best description of the texture by feel is the rubbery back of those older motorola phones, or the silicone handle of a cooking utensil.

Here are a couple of close-ups:



thanks, looks good.



Dan Ro MSG #273, 05-01-2013 12:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

The best description of the texture by feel is the rubbery back of those older motorola phones, or the silicone handle of a cooking utensil.

Here are a couple of close-ups:


You can see the pearl flecks in these shots. I bet the photos don't do it justice. There is a blue I was testing that photos can't even show how it looks in the sunlight.

[This message has been edited by Dan Ro (edited 05-01-2013).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #274, 05-05-2013 10:04 PM
      Wow... Really looks great... Can't wait to see it in person!

Jeff



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #275, 05-06-2013 11:54 PM
      I decided I wanted black rockers and belt trim, so this weekend I pulled off the rockers and swapped them for the unbroken ones off the old white parts car. Then, tonight, I masked off and plasti dipped the trim. Ran out of daylight, so I'll have to finish later. It takes 5 times longer to mask than it does to spray...


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #276, 05-08-2013 05:01 PM
      WOW!! That puts my Krylon "spray paint" job to shame. Great job, love the color, thats almost the exact color I was thinking about doing my other Fiero, only I was going to do it with a wrap instead of paint. Now that I see the color on a Fiero, I really love it.

Rob


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #277, 05-08-2013 10:47 PM
      Got the belt line finished. As soon as I have time, I'll put on my new dew wipes and touch up my goofs. Other than that, the exterior is done.
On to the interior!



Tom Slick (tom.slick@northtexasfieroclub.org) MSG #278, 05-09-2013 08:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

I decided I wanted black rockers and belt trim, so this weekend I pulled off the rockers and swapped them for the unbroken ones off the old white parts car. Then, tonight, I masked off and plasti dipped the trim. Ran out of daylight, so I'll have to finish later. It takes 5 times longer to mask than it does to spray...


a question: why did you spray the trim, couldn't you just peel off the dip?
i was thinking of doing the same, painting the trim and just peeling it but if there is a reason why it shouldn't be done that way please explain.

thanks


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #279, 05-09-2013 08:11 PM
      That would've worked, but I had to sand down the trim to address peeling paint from the previous owner/paint job. It would've looked pretty bad..

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #280, 05-11-2013 11:27 AM
      (copied from my 1/4 mile post here for reference)
Did my first runs in the car, found it surprisingly hard to launch just right on a really sticky track.

In any case, my '88 coupe with a 3800 series II NA / 4 speed muncie ran a 14.432 @ 93.94 best for the night.


The good thing, I guess, is I'm pretty consistent.. all my runs were within 15 hundredths.
Spokane county raceway is at 2600', and last night were at a density altitude of >3200 feet.






aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #281, 06-14-2013 12:24 PM
      Posted this in General too, just wanted a copy here for reference.

Forgot to post this earlier, but I find that when looking for oddball parts for the fiero I have pretty good luck in ACE hardware or Big-R (is that a NW only thing?).

Anyways, I prefer the locally owned ACE stores. On to the story: I needed to find those little rubber stops for the headlight covers, and I'll be danged if I'm going to spend $20 for the fiero store to ship me 4 pieces of stamped rubber. Also, I needed those door closing rubber bump-stops (the double wide kind) and have had no luck getting them off cars at the junkyard without destroying them.

I found working solutions for both, in one box, at ACE.


I'll take a picture later of the door solution, but it consists of using 2 x single bumpers per side and it works well. Total out of pocket for both headlights and both doors: $3.29 after tax.




aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #282, 07-07-2013 03:38 PM
      Fieroking was making another parts run to the powdercoaters, so I had him do up my brake bridges for me.

While I was swapping the powder-coated ones on, I wire-brushed the rotors and sprayed them with high temp paint.





Next step, pull out interior and make it pretty.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #283, 08-01-2013 01:49 PM
      It always seems like I'm putting my car together from scratch before fiero fest (coming up in a week), but that's ok. At least I'll have a 5th gear for cruising this year.

The Muncie never really DIED per se, but the diff bearings were getting pretty sloppy and I was sick of the oil spots in my driveway. Also, due to inattention on my part, I never fully tightened the rear trans mount bolts to the transmission, and the little bit of slop caused me to bend my trans mount bracket when hooning.

So, I popped off the wheels, tires, brakes (hung by zip ties from car frame), drained coolant, popped off dog bone, disconnected C203 & C500, unclicked fuel lines (LOVE THE NEW STYLE), and removed vacuum hose to brakes.





Then, Tony came to help me drop it out and swap trannies. Thank you Tony! He works cheap, a few Johnsonville Brats, and potato salad...
I put in new seals and a new throwout bearing in to the 60k mile Isuzu, cleaned up the slides & lightly greased the fingers and slide. New tranny clicked on beautifully!

After a little wrestling with the mounts (they're never exactly the same b/t transmissions in my experience), I got everything in and snugged down to the cradle, and clicked in the axles after pre-oiling the seals.


That was it for one day, I was tired and the temp was hovering around 95 all day.

Next morning, back in she went!


I love Joe's method of dropping the cradle, but made one small change: I put the front wheels on my oil change ramps because they have a nice roll-stop built in so I don't have to worry about the car moving back on me while lifting.
basically, you pull the bumper and lights and wrap a tow strap around the frame a few times and lift the strap. Very strong, can't fall off the car, and you can lift low to give you PLENTY of height with the crane. I easily had 3" of clearance when sliding the dolly back under.

I then replaced the 4-speed cables and shifter with the 5-speed one, and hooked them up. Next up was re-attaching the fuel lines, brake booster vacuum line, coolant lines, C203, C500, throttle cable, bolting the slave to the new trans, and re-attaching the grounds and battery cable (battery still disconnected at negative up front).

At first I thought something happened to my slave, because it was soooo easy to push compared to the 4-speed, but it's just because the trans is newer and there is no friction on the release shaft.

I had to wrestle a bit to re-bolt the dog bone, but got 'er in, and had to re-do the intake because the slave was now in the way of the pipe going to the factory air pickup spot. 30 seconds with a chop saw on the PVC fixed that.

When I get home tonight, I'll fire her up and make sure no horrible noises present themselves before buttoning up the brakes.



Tony Kania MSG #284, 08-01-2013 04:49 PM
      Anti seize. That made life soooo much easier.

Brawts were awesome.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #285, 08-02-2013 09:46 AM
      Well, after all the hard work last weekend, looks like I get to do it again this weekend. Got everything hooked up, fired it up, and something is hitting in the bell housing. I'm hoping I'll just have to clearance something a bit. Whatever it is, it can't be too big, the tranny mated up to the block with ease. Always stuff like this 6 days before fiero fest.. :-) wish me luck! Now if it would just stop raining...

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 08-02-2013).]

thedrue MSG #286, 08-02-2013 09:17 PM
      Good luck Aaron! That sounds eerily similar to what happened to me after I blew up my transmission... Just replace Fiero fest with my wedding...

See you next weekend!


Tony Kania MSG #287, 08-03-2013 11:14 AM
      I would come help out again, but I am laid out sick. Sorry Brother.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #288, 08-03-2013 04:30 PM
      No problem, I got the cradle disconnected, dropped, trans removed, fixed, remounted, and the cradle back in before lunch. . Just have to refill the coolant, hook up the ebrake and shift cables, and zip tie the cables back into place.

Tony Kania MSG #289, 08-03-2013 05:37 PM
      What was the issue?

Mr.Goodwrench (mroberts2m4@aol.com) MSG #290, 08-03-2013 06:58 PM
      We gonna have a run or BBQ or anything this summer?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #291, 08-04-2013 10:09 AM
      So, after pulling everything back out of the car again yesterday, here's what I found:





Looks like it was just barely too big. There wasn't any real marking on the pressure plate to speak of, but I decided to get pics for my reference.





So, out came the die grinder, and I smoothed out the inner edge of the pressure plate stamping, took down the high spots on the rivets, and rounded down the stamped metal on the outside corners of the pressure plate. Voila!






This time, before I put it back in, I turned the crank by hand to make sure no more rubbing. Success! I re-mounted everything, put the cradle back in, refilled fluids, adjusted shift cables, and drove up and down the street to verify operation. I was sooooo exhausted after yesterday.

Next up will be interior work. I've only got 5 days til fiero fest, so my project scope has shrunk a bit. I wasn't planning on having to drop the cradle twice in 2 weeks.


On a lighter note, it's amazing how nice this trans shifts. I mean spectacular. The clutch is smoother than the one in my 2012 Sonic now.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 08-04-2013).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #292, 08-04-2013 10:24 AM
      FWIW, the numbers on my pressure plate: "EXEDY 9K09A GMC510 Made In Japan"

This was a HD Clutch Kit from the fiero store.

I found a reference to GMC510 kit on OEMtrans.
It says it's an OEM clutch for the 3800 F-body. No wonder it works so well on my 3800.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #293, 08-17-2013 12:17 AM
      So, on last Friday, I had the car all packed up and ready to go to Fiero Fest in Richland. Filled 'er up with gas, checked the tire pressure, and as I pulled out onto the road, the slave gave out. I got the car home without a clutch (thankfully the lights all worked in my favor), and called around to find a slave. There was one way out on the other side of town, so I hauled up there and got it, along with a master (just in case).
Got home and dug in to find the clutch line seized to the slave. At that point, I bailed on taking the fiero down, but still had a great weekend seeing everybody.

Monday morning, before I got home for lunch, Joe (FieroKing) had dropped off a clutch line for me in the garage. I was so sick of the car that I didn't get around to installing it til last night. I removed the old line (cut it into sections and removed), and tried like heck to get the new line fed to the front. Apparently, you can't get the clutch line in without dropping the cross member.
I wasn't about to do that, so today, I took the clutch line into "House of Hose," and had them cut the line and put in a 2' flex section with AN fittings. Problem solved.
Put in the new master, slave, and line, and after bleeding for what seemed like forever, she's back in business!

The $40 spent on the custom flex section is well worth the ease of installation now. They even brazed on the fittings.




85SEnochie (eqoflife@hotmail.com) MSG #294, 08-18-2013 01:26 PM
      The dip looks great! what do you think of a little more black contrast?



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #295, 08-18-2013 08:36 PM
      I like that. next dip, that's what I'll do.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #296, 08-24-2013 06:24 PM
      Cleaned the car up, and entered it in the Pontiac Posse Roundup show in Post Falls. There were some beautiful cars there, but only Carol and I in fieros.





Also, I finally got brave enough to power wash the engine, MAN what a difference!



Took home a first place trophy, too, but it doesn't really count as there were only 2 of us there..



NoMoreRicers (wilson.kegler@gmail.com) MSG #297, 09-02-2013 09:27 PM
      Thanks for letting me take the car around the block a couple times!

Tom Slick (tom.slick@northtexasfieroclub.org) MSG #298, 09-23-2013 06:45 AM
      Have you wash the car?

I washed mine and I got some lifting of the dip around the side mirrors base. I don't know if washing did it or bad prep before dipping, I'm going with washing. Lol. Anyway, I'm going to try and inject some thinner under the lifting, hopefully it will activate the dip and reattach itself.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #299, 09-24-2013 12:25 PM
      I've only had the dreaded lift in 2 small spots, both on places on the roof panel where I had to sand down to the fiber. I think I didn't wait long enough for the dip prep to dry before spraying the dip.

Injecting xylene worked to reseat.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #300, 09-24-2013 12:27 PM
      Also, after the dip cured for a week, I went to the local full-contact car wash and ran the car through 4 times in a row to see what would happen. On the edged of the rearview mirrors, the dip was rubbed off a bit from the brushes, so I went to O'reilly's to get some of that black plastic door guard, and put it on the edge of the mirrors. Problem solved.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #301, 11-18-2013 05:12 PM
      Haven't updated this in a while, but it's good news. I've been driving my car to work every time I don't need to haul the kids to school in the AM, but the snow is starting to fly..




I did take the car in to Shelly's and have them weld up the exhaust (had some leaky clamps). It is SO MUCH quieter now, it's nice. It got rid of the rasp completely.

A coworker is just finishing up a shop, and I'll be parking her for the winter soon..


jsmorter (jsmorter@yahoo.com) MSG #302, 12-15-2013 08:18 AM
      congrats on your swap. I have an 88 coupe that I did the 3800/4t65e swap on over 80,000 miles ago. The motor and trans have close to a quarter million miles on them now so I figured I better get another car in preparation for the downtime coming up. I ran across another 88 coupe with the 5 speed in it for agrand and only 110,000 miles on the car. I really like the manual so I think it needs a 3800 in it also lol. How well is the 5 speed suppose to hold up if you drive it with some sense?

fieroall MSG #303, 12-17-2013 06:33 PM
      How's the Isuzu holding up? I basically have the identical setup into an 87 coupe and the tranny is the only concern I have. Mods are 2.5" Exhaust, HV3 insert and AR Rockers.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #304, 12-17-2013 08:05 PM
      The Isuzu is holding up great! Very smooth shifting, and the gear ratios are almost perfect. I wouldn't mind first & second being a bit taller, but 5th is great on the highway. I'm sure if I really beat on it, I could break it, but the older I get, the more averse I become to spending money..



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #305, 01-17-2014 05:07 PM
      We're having a really weird year, and it's dry. So, that means I so far have been able to drive the fiero a lot!
This makes me happy, as the summer tires become FUN tires in cold temps. On a lighter note, I got this pic the other day, too good not to post:





aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #306, 05-17-2014 01:34 AM
      Well, I finally had to rebuild the headlight motors.

Went really well with one exception: I broke a screw off on the passenger side motor and had to drill it out and replace.










aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #307, 05-17-2014 01:35 AM
      Forgot to mention:

If any of you do the passenger side the way I do, be careful not to lose that tiny tiny ball bearing at the end of the worm drive, and below is my trick to keep the brushes in place when reinstalling the motor:



Akghandi MSG #308, 05-17-2014 01:24 PM
      awesome thread man i love the dip, and the N/A 3800. was just curious what car that trans came out of. my cars an auto with a healthy 2.8 and i need to shift.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #309, 05-18-2014 01:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Akghandi:

awesome thread man i love the dip, and the N/A 3800. was just curious what car that trans came out of. my cars an auto with a healthy 2.8 and i need to shift.


I'm happily running the isuzu 5 speed from an '88 4 cylinder. I just don't drop the clutch in second. :P

I do have a getrag on the shelf just in case though.. I just love how quiet the isuzu is, and the top gear ratio is amazing.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 05-18-2014).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #310, 08-02-2014 09:28 AM
      Well, it would appear that I should follow my own advice.

I took my son out to the races, and after a couple of hard launches I had 'ventilated' my transmission. Strangely enough, it wasn't second gear that failed, but several teeth broke off one of the spider gears and bounced around in there, eventually punching a hole in the bell housing from the inside. This video was the run that killed it, but I did run a new fastest time: 14.3 @ 95



So, I limped the car home with Spencer following me (sorry about the synchromesh all over your car) and began planning the Getrag swap. Several years ago, I pulled a Getrag out of a corsica at pull & save, and had it sitting on the shelf, just in case. I would have probably used it instead of the isuzu, but I already had a set of isuzu cables, mounts, and slave. So, I called up Rodney Dickman, told him what I had, asked what I needed, and 3 days later a box shows up with mounts, FWD adapter kit, cables, aluminum slave, and a cast release arm. He advised me that the shift cable / slave bracket was cheaper on the fiero store than through him, so I ordered that there. That is true customer service right there.
Everything arrived as promised, and I pulled the engine out.

It's at this point that I feel I should point out I've changed the transmission more often than the oil in this car, and I can now say that I've run every single transmission that came with a fiero in this car. It started as an auto/4 cyl, then I did the swap to the 3800 / 4 speed, then the isuzu, now the getrag. If this fails, I'm converting back to a 4t65.


First thing's first:
Lets clean off the crap. This is how it looked sitting in the garage:



Also, I had to pull off the pressure plate to clean the synchromesh out of everything. Clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate still look great considering I'm not really nice to them. Lots of brake clean used, even though I'm pretty sure none of the fluid hit the friction material.







More in a min..





aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #311, 08-02-2014 09:47 AM
      So, I figured since the engine was out of the car I'd clean it up a bit. Much easier to spray it off and clean while it's on a cradle in the middle of the driveway. Funny thing, when I was rinsing off the engine cleaner, I noticed that the water was dissapearing from the valley of bank 1 (firewall side). Even more troubling, it was pouring into a bolt hole on the head.



Turns out, there are 2 holes used for the alternator mount on the rear head that are unused on the front head. One of those holes is open to the valve cover area. Great, so I just dumped a crapton of water into the engine.. Sigh.
I grabbed some bolts, loctite, and made sure the holes were sealed. I believe the one at the corner of the head (in the pic above it's under the ICM harness) was a blind hole, but at this point I'm done taking chances.

I also changed the belt to a 6k875 (0.3" shorter) to get my tensioner in range. It never slipped before, but I was revving it in a parking garage a couple of months ago and it popped off. I'm convinced it was only because the car was jealous that the wife and I were having date night.


After all the blood/sweat/tears/money, she's back in the car.




Once the cradle was back in, I poured out the crap oil/water mix thanks to my cleaning, and put in 5 quarts of cheapo valvoline. I then ran the car until it got nice and hot, and did another oil / filter change back to Mobil 1. I also took this opportunity to change to the PF52 filter.

I drove to Joe's (FieroKing) yesterday, and popped the HPTuners cable on there to change the PCM to read 24k pulses / mile, and he had an extra speedo buffer laying around that he pulled from a project. That's my project today, along with the dew wipes.
While I was in there, I bumped up the timing curve a bit, and made sure that all the speed limiters were gone, too.

It never ends with these stupid cars..

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 08-02-2014).]

davylong86 MSG #312, 08-02-2014 11:50 AM
      It may never end,but you have one nice stupid car!

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #313, 08-04-2014 11:55 AM
      It's funny, but half of my posts are to warn others of pitfalls, and the other half is to document what I've done, so when I forget I can go back and see..

My mind is slipping..

Thanks for the compliment.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #314, 05-22-2018 12:55 PM
      Been a LONG time since I posted an update.

It's been 5 years since I plasti-dipped the car, and I decided it was finally time for paint. After spending 2 weeks removing the )*&$(*&^(*&@ dip, I finally began body work. I had to repair a bunch of spots on the bumpers (car was hit twice since it was dipped, but minor), and fix some SMC delamination on the roof. After enough body work to make me want to set the car on fire in the front yard, I dropped it off for paint this morning. This should get the car back to me next week, and I'll have a week or so get everything back together for Northwest Fiero Fest.

I also picked up all LED bulbs except for the headlights, and a whole set of round molding from the fiero store to have painted and put back on after paint.










DotTC MSG #315, 06-19-2018 01:50 AM
      Any updates on the paint?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #316, 06-19-2018 02:17 AM
      Yeah, forgot to post the update, turned out amazing.


Edit, thanks for the URL tip.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-19-2018).]

Reallybig MSG #317, 06-19-2018 05:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Yeah, forgot to post the update, turned out amazing.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Xw9L6PpObvg[/youtube]


404 not found!!! What the fudge?!?!?


fieroguru MSG #318, 06-19-2018 05:46 PM
      You have to remove the "s" from "https"

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 06-19-2018).]

motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #319, 06-19-2018 08:34 PM
      Dude, that turned out nice, I'm really digging the wingless coupe look... makes me want another deck for my '88

Joe


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #320, 06-19-2018 09:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Dude, that turned out nice, I'm really digging the wingless coupe look... makes me want another deck for my '88

Joe


I just filled and feathered the holes in my existing deck. It sucked, but I prefer the wingless look.


Flying_Dan (dan_root@mail.com) MSG #321, 05-01-2019 02:48 PM
      That did turn out really nice. I need to get my 86' GT painted. Bubbling from prev paint job.

robymon MSG #322, 06-21-2019 03:33 AM
      Nice car! I like the new body color.